The Greatest Generation - A Reverence for the D (S6E10)

Episode Date: May 10, 2017

When Picard and the Entrepreneur crew break up, but he can’t move out for a few weeks, things get awkward. Meanwhile there’s a new captain aboard to Hackman the shit out of Riker’s Denzel. What is this mission anyways? How do you keep it 💯 with the Cardassians? Is being the good guys mutually exclusive with being the smart guys? It’s the episode where we get serious about Greatest Gen Con Twenty Seventeen 📢📢📢.

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

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and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Welcome to the greatest generation, a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast.

Of course, I am Benjamin R. Harrison. I'm Adam Pranika. Adam, we've talked a lot about greatest GenCon 2017 on the show. Yeah, I feel like it's time to formulate a plan. We've talked a lot about Grace Jencon 2017 on the show. Yeah. I feel like it's time to formulate a plan. And I thought maybe we could do that a little bit out in public so people can see the thought process. What do you think?

You want him to see behind the pod, don't you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I want to lift up my pod's skirt and show him what's underneath. Well, I almost exclusively record while wearing a kimono. So it's only right that I open that up a little bit. Yeah, that's great because I'm wearing a Ghee. I feel like we're kind of on theme. That's cool.

Yeah. So I feel like we started thinking about greatest GenCon before we really understood the constraints. And you actually had a conversation with somebody who has some expertise in this kind of thing, right? Yeah, I'm friends with someone who helps facilitate Emerald City Comic Con. And so I had a pretty deep conversation with her about what we wanted to do, how we wanted to do it. We've spent a lot of time brainstorming what we would like a greatest

Gen Con 2017 to be. And then you and I had a conversation about that conversation. Yeah, so I mean, I think that the thing that I got from your reporting back is that we basically can't get away with a con where we are doing something that might arouse the suspicion of a legal department? Right, because here's what I was able to glean from this conversation. It's that, you know, it's one thing to go out

and do a live show, and it is quite another to do an exhibition, an exhibition where wherein we would use property as a way to sell tickets. And by property, I mean intellectual property, exhibits either in part or parcel movies and television programming based on those properties. And also getting actors to appear at a con is also an expense that I was shocked to hear about. The realities of getting even, and I don't want to be specific about who we would like to bring, but basically it doesn't matter how low on the cash list you go, it is five figures to get any actor to show up to a con at all. So like even somebody that signed one of my Star Trek trading cards?

They would probably be on the higher end of that. Like it is, so I went into this conversation very excited and very hopeful at our chances of putting something together for our very excited viewers and I came away sort of crushed by it because she was like, look, I love you guys and I want you to do it. But here's what you're dealing with if you decide to go down this road.

This was not just the things that I'm telling you, but a list of things that were not insurmountable, not impossible to deal with, but TBH made it an administrative challenge that made it seem far less fun than the idea of getting the gang together for some fun group hangs, riffing on track, and hitting a remake pinata together, you know? Like, it's so thing. I think it could be. It's not like I went into it all day wide, thinking it was gonna be easy, but I did not think it was going to be

this difficult to put together. And it's not like I wasn't ready to work hard to make this happen. I don't want to make it seem like that at all. It seemed like for a variety of legal and expense reasons, I don't know if we can do it the way that we were hoping to. Well, I mean, here's the thing. I think the original idea of greatest Gen Con was Ben and Adam in the Lakinta and Victorville and if other people were there also that would be hilarious. Yeah.

Whereas in, at some point, like we started thinking like what if it was a real con and I think that maybe us thinking what if it was a real con and not just us connecting on a very human level with the people that watched our show and the reason we keep doing it. Maybe that was us getting off track. Like maybe what we should do is get back to our roots, like literally like go on fucking Expedia or something right now and book a couple of nights in Victorville for the two of us and just tell people when we're going to be

there. I love the idea that Victorville has become canonical greatest gen, you know? Yeah, it totally has. It's where the show was born in many ways. Yeah, I mean, the other weird place that the show was kind of born was New London, New Hampshire, which is where I was for many of our early episodes. What do you think of that? What do you think of just like pulling a date out of thin air, making it our business to be there for a few nights

and just say like, hey, we're gonna hang out. Like maybe we go so far as to book a venue nearby and have a live show there, but mainly it's just putting some zinc oxide on our noses and hanging out poolside and just like be in there and hoping other people come. Yeah, like maybe we pivot into greatest gentcation. Yeah.

You know where it's just chill hangs. Chill hangs. Chill hangs, a live show. We're not violating anybody's copyrights. Yeah, I mean, here's the thing, like I'm of two minds on this. I am very focused on incorporating con like attributes to our tour dates that we are putting together in the Midwest and the East Coast, like con like attributes, but not so much

that we would get sued. Right. Neither legal nor botany bay type risks involved in these attributes. So for the record, you won't be able to buy tickets to any of this on eBay. Right. So the idea of sort of folding some of the ideas that we've received from viewers into tour dates. And also sort of creating a one-off to pay off this running joke that we handcuffed ourselves

to in season one, right? Like, we gotta pay this off. We gotta do it somehow. We got to. It would be criminal for us not to do it. So, part of this conversation is to manage expectations about what a one-off event would be for us. Which I think is smart. And the other thing I think is to narrow down what that would be, correct?

Right. What do you think of this, Adam? We're getting a little long here in our, in our Marin. But I think we've kind of formulated the outlines of a plan that I really like, because it's us, it's us kind of getting back to our roots doing the greatest gen con that we first ever imagined. And you know, maybe, maybe we'll make it a thing where we raise a little money for charity or something.

But it's not us getting some huge con together that would necessitate us having a legal department and a ton of just a war chest of money that would make it prohibitive and unfun to do. Yeah, I mean because we definitely want this to be fun first and foremost. I love the idea that getting back to our roots is code for doing the minimum. I'm down. Well, what do you say we get on to the episode we came here to talk about Adam? Let's do it, Ben. It's one of the greats. It's season 6, episode 10. Ronnie Cox, part one.

That Ronnie Cox, though. This is a Ronnie Cox tour de force. It sure is Adam. And like, you know, so many people when they think of Chain of Command, they only think of the four lights, they think of part two. But what you lose when you think of the four lights is a really great part one of a two-parter. It is sizzling. How good this part one is. I think it's all unrani-cox as shoulders to. If this part is miscast, I think the whole house comes down. The entrepreneur meets up with a hood class starship known as the USS Cairo and Admiral

Nachev comes on board and is kicking shit from the second she's on. You can tell she's a bad-ass because she walks around without a communicator. She's like, she's like the person who leaves home without a cell phone. She's like, yeah. Anyone who wants to talk to me can just walk right up to me. Like, I don't give any fucks. Yeah, like the president definitely doesn't have

a set of keys in his pocket, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. This is a totally different level of admiralty that Nichea is. Right. And she comes on board and basically just unceremoniously tells Picard that he is being reassigned. He is no longer captain of the Enterprise, effective essentially immediately.

This is a 40 second cold open bin. Do you know how long the theme song is of the show? It's a minute and 40. This is the cold loop equivalent of a kick to the nuts. It was awesome. It's so great. And basically everyone is doing riker eyes to theme. They basically do like Californians to theme. It's 30 seconds of cold open, 10 seconds of Californians to theme.

It's 30 seconds of cold open, 10 seconds of rikerized theme. It's the perfect open. It's amazing. A Californians. So we come back from theme and what is announced is that Picard has been reassigned. It's like a, it's a McLaughlin group where Admiral Necheev has the kind of remnants of the

senior staff together. When she's explaining to them that Picard, Beverly and Wharf have been reassigned to something that is a secret. And instead of will getting the chair pulled out for him as he deserves, Starfleet Command has reassigned Captain Jelico of the Cairo to take over as Captain of the entrepreneur. And the reason is that Jelico is a grizzled veteran of dealing with cardacians. And there's some cardacian business

that they need to take care of. This is an element of like the body politic that I've advocated for for a long time. It's like, where's the grizzled admiral or the captain that's been in the shit? Like, I wanna know more about that guy I want to see that guy on the show and here he is Right, and you don't want it to be the captain that has gone

That has gone kuku about the about the Kardashians and his Is off you know a wall firing torpedoes at them like you want You want the one that kept his wits about him and is the guy that Starfleet confidently turns to when there's some cardassian shit of foot. The episode does a great job in, in taking away, but not taking away entirely. Like, Picard has been relieved of his command, Beverly and Warfare on this mission, and yet they're still on the ship. They're like ghosts. So when, so when Jellico gets command at the enterprise commanded the Enterprise like it's it's like a breakup where you

still see the person and it that makes it that much more difficult. Yeah it's like you're broken up but you're still roommates kind of a deal. Yeah and that just like heightens the tension. It maintains the tension in a way that's just so effective. Yeah there's there's a great scene in 10 Forward where, you know, Picard and Jelico are standing there and Riker, you know, reports something to Jelico. And Jelico's like, Jelico has come onto this ship with a very different command style to Picard.

And he is just, he's a no nonsense, no time for backup guy. He has a different way he likes things organized. We have a standard three shift rotation. I'd like to change that to four starting tonight. Different way he likes things set up. I want you to install a bypass between the main phaser ray and secondary generators. Like he wants the ship rigged for battle and that means like everybody's going to be busting their ass around the clock for two days straight.

Get it done. In anticipation of meeting up with the Kardashians, and Raker is like, this fucking sucks, like this should have been my job, A, and B, why is he being such a dick about everything? I'm not used to this. It's not necessary to give Captain Jellico a command of the Enterprise just to conduct a negotiation. You talked about it for a moment, but like the idea that command is given to anyone else besides Riker in this moment is shattering. You can see it on

Freak's face. You can see it like Niche of almost relishes the idea of kicking him in the balls in that moment. And it's like... And I want someone on the bridge who has a great deal of experience with the Kardashians. That's not you, Bub. It's just brutal. And there's something about like... There's like a reverence for the D, right?

Like, we love this ship. Like the actual ship is what I'm talking about. And when you see someone else as its captain beside someone that you know and love, it just feels wrong. It's like someone else driving your car or something. Like, there's something gross about it. And it's, it is a-

Yeah, Jelko has adjusted the driver's seat and done the mirrors in a weird way. He's changed all the radio stations. Like, it's yeah, it is. Jellico has adjusted the driver's seat and done the mirrors in a weird way. He's changed all the radio stations. Like it's really affecting in a way that I wasn't quite expecting. Make it sound. Make it sound. Make it sound.

Make it sound. Make it sound. Make it sound. Make it sound. Make it sound. The way that Ronnie Cox, who is portraying Jellico characterizes this captain, is great, because he is this archetype of the military commander who is not really concerned with the

morale of his underlings. Like he is Jean Hackman in Crimson Tide getting on the radio going, it has been reported to me that there's a problem with morale. Yeah. Shape up assholes. Yeah. And Ronnie Cox is a great enough actor that he's really playing in the margins of his character a lot, which is so satisfying as a viewer to watch. Like, his posture is like, he's a tall man.

He's almost as tall as Riker, and yet he's got a little bit of a slouch to him. Like, he walks with like sort of a forward carriage, a forward momentum that's really speedy and fast. You see this when he walks around with data from station to station, like snapping his fingers and making shit happen. Get it done.

He does it the second he gets off the, off the transporter pad, like he, he essentially like falls forward off the transporter pad, because he's already in motion. And he marches right or down the hallway going like, what's the shift rotation? Three, it's gonna be four now. What's, you know, like, like get,

get reports to me on all the crew. Like, I want every section chief to give a readiness report. I want it tonight. Like, this is happening. Yeah. He also maintains eye contact, like, the entire time. He's never looking around. He's like, razor focused.

And he's also real fidgety, like, with his hands. So there's like a conflict between what you're seeing through his eyes and what he's doing with his body, which I think is paid off a little bit later. Like you get the sense that in tone of voice, he's very authoritative, but everything else sort of makes you question if he's all hat and no cattle, you know? Yeah.

It really chaf shapes against people. Like the crews, the entrepreneur are the best in the brightest, and they really don't like being put in this position where all of their expectations have been upset, and their competence is being reexamined, and the kind of esteem that they have with the captain has gone out the window and there's no understanding between them and their superior. And as the exo, it really falls on Riker like all of the complaints are funneled towards him.

And unfortunately, he's the worst conduit to elevate any of these issues because he and Jellico have gotten off on such a bad footing already because Jellico requests a foreshift rotation and Riker sort of drags his feet on that. And Jellico grabs him by the collar and throws him out the door on it. He's like, I made a request, what the fuck is your problem? Like get it done. It is a strange, like I think of Riker as being such a company man.

It's kind of surprising that he doesn't like jump on on these orders. Like he really does attempt to push back, which is a major misfire on his part. And Jelico is not wrong either. Like his way about it could maybe use some, some sanding off of some corners, but like none of his orders seem strange.

And you know when he does the, he goes station to station with data, which I think is just like a great decision by Jelo because he gets the straight dope from data in every moment. Like he'll go up to Jordy and he'll be like, we got to recalibrate this thing. What's it going to take? And Jordy's like, well, geez, it's going to take two straight shifts around the clock. And data's like, yes, that's actually possible though. If you work 48 hours straight and Gehlicico's like, great, get it done.

It's almost like like data. If Jurtie could, if Jurtie could make eyes at data, he would be though. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so data is a great guy on the side for Jellico as he goes around the ship because, because he is getting the expected pushback from the crew, but getting the straight honesty from data in all of those interactions, which sort of makes data's honesty a little hostile.

Well meanwhile, the captain, the doctor, and Worf are doing some training in the holodeck. They've put on their skin type black jumpsuits and they're running around in these blue styrofoam caves. And it's like, it's all timing and rigging booby traps and shooting cardacians. It's the best they can do? No sir, but that's what they did. And they're training for something, but only Picard knows any of the details of what they're training for.

It would be helpful to know something about our mission. I think Jelico maybe has some information as well, because they kind of like have a couple of hushed conversations with each other. Yeah. Like Picard's pretty confident in the decision that Starfleet command has made. He falls into his new role much easier than Riker does. Yeah.

But it's interesting that they don't trust Wurf and the doctor enough to fill them in on what they're doing just yet. There's a physicality to their training that seems very unexpected. You know, you would expect secret mission to be a little more spy craft and a little less sweaty, I guess.

But like, there's a practice session where Picard comes back to his quarters and he is like just drenched and spent in a way that you rarely see any officer on board. Like, they are working these people. It's an interesting choice. I mean, you think of Navy seals or whatever, and they kind of exist at a state of readiness.

They're not letting themselves go between missions. They're ready to be at any point on the planet in 20 hours and, you know, amphibiously assault the enemy prison complex or whatever. And this is not that, right? Like Worf can kind of claim some readiness. He does yoga every day. But like, Picard and Beverly are basically being asked to be elite black ops soldiers. And the big ask, and they were working their asses off to get ready, but they only have two days. And I was a little worried in the run-up to this. Like, are they going to just be so rung out at the end of training around the clock for two days

that by the time the actual mission starts, they're just gonna be like totally spent. It's interesting to me that they trained themselves. Like, this is a moment in a story where you could almost expect the drill sergeant type figure who's got to get the crew ready fast and there's not enough time for any bullshit. He doesn't even have enough time to poke out their eyes and skull fuck them, Adam. Who the fuck said that? Right, and what you get instead, like you can only get one of those and that guy is Jellico and he's in the B story.

Or I guess the CoA story. Well Picard Wurf and Beverly piling to a Previa and they take off and now that they are departed from the ship Picard gives a little exposition about what's up and it turns out the Federation suspects suspects that the cardacians are working on a like a weapon of mass destruction that they can send over subspace to like eat all life on a planet and leave it leave it available for the cardacians to take over. What's it called a biogenic weapon? leave it available for the cardassians to take over. What's it called a biogenic weapon? Yeah, they call it a metagenic weapon.

Oh, metagenic weapon. Oh my God. I am not familiar with metagenics. And the idea that this could be sent via subspace, like almost like a radio signal, sort of terrifying. Like, the idea of a ghost planet being ready for the takeover after like a month is crazy to me. I wondered if a planet would have the same atmosphere after a month if like all the plant life was

killed off and stuff. Yeah. Like, does that immediately change the way a planet's atmosphere works, or does that take a while to switch over? Like, would the caredescens then have to show up with like a ACE Garden Center worth of plants to bring down to the surface? Now, when you replant a yard, you get a one-digge hole for these plants, a good six to eight inches around the bulb. We've used a blend of grass seeds, primarily Kentucky blue grass, but we've pulled up a lot of the crab grass that was here before.

Now you want to make sure that you purchase a high-quality grass seed mix with a good portion of Fescue Kentucky Rye, what's another one? It's almost merit's research. Yeah no we can't do it. Spread the seed evenly and then you actually watched this old house about redoing the grass. Yeah, I think someone sent that in. Yeah, I watched that too. It was great. We should have watched it more recently. Yeah. But that would count as research, I think, technically.

Can't do it. Can't do it. I feel like we may be leaning on the charity of our viewers too much though. We can't do research to the extent that one of our most beloved running jokes is not going to work this time. That's terrible. Well, I think it's a little bit forgivable that I couldn't think of a third type of grass. I'm hoping that I'm forgiven for that. fingers crossed at him.

Yeah. Ben, the thing about the Kardashians is that, like, is this in character for them? Like, is there anything that we know about them at this point that makes it seem like they would be down for planet-wide genocide? Like down for... What is their endgame with a weapon like this? Do they want to take over whole systems? Are they going for a galaxy-wide land grab? Like, what's their deal? I mean, I like, I have to think,

and I think that maybe they could have had like one line of dialogue to clear this up. I have to think that you have a weapon like this and you don't use it, but the threat of its existence is enough to get more at the bargaining table. And this is kind of like what the Kardashians are up to in this episode outside of this is sort of contemporary, right?

Like they're saying like the Kardashians want to take over a specific planet that fell on the Federation side of the line after the war. And they're betting that the Federation isn't gonna have the resolve to heat the war and they're betting that the federation isn't going to have the resolve to heat the war back up if they just take the one and that's basic like Putin annexed Crimea, you know. Yeah. Relax, I got this.

Like it's kind like we kind of have examples of that being a thing in in real life, you know. Yeah. Yeah. of that being a thing in real life. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that like the US or NATO or whatever should have started a shooting war with Russia because of Crimea, like I don't really know, like I am a fucking idiot when it comes to that stuff. But this may not be the podcast to do a deep dive

on those issues. Right. But it is really upsetting that that happened just on a, you know, there's something about an international border that seems to be like an inviolable thing. Yeah, there's a, it's sacrosanct. Yeah, and the a, it's sacrosanct. Yeah. And the fact that that that happened and there was no real way to deal with it aside from shooting and therefore nothing was done really is really upsetting and and and weird and and that

makes that makes the Cardassians a kind of tangibly scary adversary. And, you know, the idea that they're developing this weapon of mass destruction is also really scary. So I don't fault the federation for taking that threat super seriously. I am a cute disaball. You will assist us. I am a cute disaball. You are the four. What is also upsetting is how little intelligence they have to go on before sending three of the most important characters on the show behind enemy lines. There's a moment before the card leaves the ship, like the last moment before he leaves the ship where he meets with Jellico and Jellico is like, well, he basically gives

like the colon powell weapons of mass destruction presentation whereico's like, well, he basically gives like the colon Powell weapons of mass destruction presentation where he's like, look, all we know is there's yellow kick, there's aluminum tubes, and there's launchers out there. Like, here's a PowerPoint presentation. Hope you don't get killed. Good luck. And like, that's all they have to go on. It seems incredibly flimsy.

And it makes the mission so much more fraught. Like, uh, what are they doing it for? It seems like Picard is a real company man about it. Yeah. We expect a certain amount of questioning from Picard when it comes to matters of the prime directive, for instance. But in this case, and matters of things the Admiralty is telling him that seemed crazy. Yeah, and in this case, it's buttoned up. The ship isn't his. He's going on this mission because Nachev ordered him to,

like he is company man Picard here. Yeah, and well, I think he is around long enough to see that Jelico is a really different command swagger than he does. I think that he and Jelico really respect each other. Yeah, they're sort of like it's Captain's Club, isn't it? Yeah, Captain Game, recognized Captain Game. Yeah. So, well, the Shuttle team is en route to this Cardassian planet where this terrifying weapon is being developed,

the new captain of the entrepreneur is getting ready to meet up with a Cardassian girl who is going to like, they're going to like negotiate what's going on with this planet that the cardacians are sort of flexing at. So we're told, right, that the whole reason that Gellico has been installed on this mission is that he's like, he's got these reps with the cardacians at the diplomatic table, you know? Right. He had something to do with the armistice, maybe. Yeah, he knows how to handle him. He knows all their their secrets. And so by rep play poker with them, you know, yeah, he knows their tells. So like we get an idea of his reputation that then is

completely like his pants are pulled down almost immediately. Like he's playing all these games with like, you know, keep the guy waiting style, power move games, which is just like irritating, right? Like he walks up to the gall and he goes in for a handshake and he pulls the guy in and pushes him back. He ratchets up his seat a little taller than than than the goal like to make it seem like he's he's taller. It's a pretty weak T man. It's all weak T. I'm gonna

keep it on it for you guys. All these stupid mind games like fuck man that's not being a great diplomat that's that's being a Joker. There's no there there. We get terrible deals with the Kardashians and I'm going to go in. I'm going to be the captain of the enterprise. I'm going to get the best deals. Believe me, you're going to love the deals that I get with them. I was in there with the gal. We were having the most beautiful chocolate cake. And I got them to stop using the medogenic weapon. I asked him if he wanted to come down to maralago i play play the back nine with me this weekend it's gonna cost the taxpayers

three million dollars i think it's very worth it believe me i had a ten-minute conversation with admiralich hev and uh turns out diplomacy with the cardacians far more difficult than I thought. It's not so easy. Yeah, and yeah, the Cardassians have more intelligence than. Jellico's expecting. It is shocking. You know, like, they sort of rule of threes this, right? They do the Jellico hour late thing.

What is going on? I've been waiting here for over an hour. the gelico hour late thing. They do the not-rated-negotiate walk away from the table thing. They do the sit at the very end of the table while taking the girl's seat away thing. I did not agree to allow others into this meeting. Until finally the girl is like, hey, I noticed Captain Picard isn't here. It would be a shame if something were to happen to such a, such a noted officer. And he basically tells him, I know exactly what you're doing.

They're in great danger. Like, he totally flips the table around on him and calls for a break in the meeting. And it's at this moment where you know everything's fucked. Like, there's no recovering from this. Right, and it shatters Jelico's game. Like, Jelico has nothing to say after this, but like, there's 10 minutes of episode left.

Yeah, yeah. It shatters what little game he had at all. I wish Jelico was a little more competent at this. I wish we actually got to see good, hard negotiation here and to have that turn back around on him. Like, what if Jelico were right in his diplomacy, like in some way, and we got a different version of the scene where he had some counterfactuals and he was deft and good and skilled instead of like to sloppy and blustery and stupid. Like, that

would almost make the goals table flipping even more terrifying, that he would stare down the face of a great diplomat and still get one over on him. But it doesn't make the goal look, I mean, the goal is still extremely threatening. And the moment he confides that he knows the secret plan, it's scary and troubling. But I wonder if it plays any differently if he's across the table from a more skilled diplomat. I think that this must have been an economy of script issue because they could have gone back and forth three more times,

but it made the scene a lot longer. I totally agree though. Like the, and they've achieved this before with the Romulans. The Romulans have outchest them in the past, and it's been devastating and exciting to watch. And this is devastating more that the Federation had it so wrong so early. You know, when you get into a Romulan situation,

you know you're playing chess already, and I think the Federation thought they were coming to a game of checkers. I can think of very few times where the Federation is on the winning side of that kind of intelligence. No. You know, like so often they're not getting this shit right.

And it makes for more interesting storytelling, I think. Like I think that's the right side to write it. But you know, for being the good guys, they are not also the smart guys. I was thinking if we ever got our chance to write a season of Star Trek on a show that wasn't as obviously doomed as Discovery, the opportunity to write a Star Trek spy story, like the, who are the intelligence officers

that are getting this, like that play in the margins that do the dirty tricks would be a whole lot of fun like it would be a lot of fun to tell the story about the kind of the part of starfleet that does morally ambiguous things when starfleet is such an Outwardly moral Entity you as things when starfleet is such an outwardly moral entity. Yeah, like turn it seven clicks back from what Star Trek into darkness did. Yeah. Right. Like spin the wheel back from that a couple of times and get, like you say, in the margins,

not all the way dark, but like tough decisions have to be made by tough people. Yeah, not we're building an evil enterprise. You can tell it's evil because it's black. Yeah, yeah. Yep. by James Earl Jones. Yeah. He just kept talking one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic. So that no one had the chance to think the traffic was really quite igniting. Picard, Wurf and Crusher are in the Black Leotards.

These Black Leotards are sort of a matte finish. Like part of the reason they got out of the season one and two uniforms was that they were two form fitting. I think it's interesting that in season six, they stick them right back into a skin tight. Yeah. And all you're seeing is face. Like they do a really interesting lighting trick here

They stick them in some caves. They only light the faces. You're not seeing a lot of bulge It's it's it's it's largely bulgeless. It's kind of the It's kind of the ninja costume of Starfleet. Yeah, yeah and And yeah, they're slinking around these caves. It's essentially like a rock scrambling and repelling episode for a year on in. And they really got the simulation right. It almost looks exactly like what they practiced for. Right down to the color of the rocks. Yeah.

They get to this door in the caves, and it's like an access hatch to the secret underground layer where the cardacians are surely developing this terrifying weapon, and they like Jimmy the lock, and they open it up, and there's just like one weird Star Trek TOS computer sitting in the middle of an empty room. It's just like a silver paper shredder Just slowly worrying away on some documents Mm-hmm and

They're like well this was a trick. This was no good. And... Yeah, they're expecting a lab. Yeah, so Picard sees the writing on the wall, and it's like, let's get the fuck out of here. But he is too late, and the Cardiassians start running in and shooting purple laser beams at them. And it's a pretty tense scene,

but it's not, I feel like they're, like when you're doing an action scene, you really wanna establish the parameters of a space. So you know where somebody could run and duck if they wanted to dodge something and what the points of egress and ingress are. So you know where the bad guys are coming from and where the heroes are gonna try to escape to.

And I feel like anytime they need a hole for more cardassians to come out of they just have it magically. Like they haven't really set this up at all. So it's a pretty unfair fight for that reason. Wurf and Beverly managed to get through the door, but at the cost of the captain getting grabbed. And Wurf takes like a phaser before he can run back in, and the door slams shut behind him.

Wurf puts up a good fight, but the door wins again. You know? Isn't it always like that, Adam? That's sort of one of the, one of the sort of Aristotelian tropes that this show always returns to, is that Klingons and Doors are not good friends. Wharf is sort of like the Jinellen to the door of the Dyson sphere. He uses himself to hold it open.

Yeah. Dr. Crusher manages to turn herself 90 degrees and fly through. Yeah. Yeah. And so the cardacians close in on a now isolated Picard. Picard drops his dustbuster. No one it's over. Yeah. It's got to be terrifying. That is. On the other side of the door, Wurf and Beverly are like, we got to go back, Wurf is like, we got to go back in there.

And Beverly's like, I mean, she's right, right? Like, when you know you're that outnumbered, you have to retreat, don't you? Yeah, I mean, there's nowhere to go. I think the case that she's making without making it fully is that the only chance of rescuing Picard is escaping the planet and giving word

that he's been captured to remain an attempt to rescue him now would only mean dying and then no one would know where they are or how to rescue them. Yeah. I mean, you know, this is a thing that they are dealing with constantly on this show, is like one of the main people is in a compromised situation. What do we do?

And turn tail and run is an option they select all that often. It feels really crazy that they do it. If yeah, I mean, you know, in some seasons, I feel like you would get a line of dialogue out of war for he would rather die than leave a warrior behind. And this doesn't feel quite right for his character to listen to Beverly of all people so easily about this. But also he's been wounded and shit is coming down on them super fast. So I mean, I guess in the moment I can understand it. Yeah, and I mean, I just, I feel like this would have been like this is, this is where the person writing draft one of this script realizes like it just doesn't make sense for Picard to be there

with the doctor and wharf. Like we need a black ops team that is people that are especially trained for this and maybe like write it so that they wind up not trusting Picard that much and they make an understandable decision to ditch or they go down in like a hail of phaser fire doing what maybe Wurf should have done, but you know, they can't kill off Wurf, right? I think what we're running into here is like we're running out of runway, like we do on episodes of this kind.

Like I'm gonna advocate for a three-parter here again. Like, because it would bulk up this moment in the way that you're saying, but also, like, we skip over the entire ride to the planet that they have to hitch with the Ferengy. And like, how do they get dropped off on the planet? Is there a getaway car awaiting for them that's supposed to be back up to? Like, there is, how are they gonna get back? There's all of this connective tissue on the story that's missing that serves the story.

It is sort of implied by Jeleco that this is a suicide mission, right? Like, yeah. Like he says, he like looks Picard in the eye and goes like, you're probably not coming back from this one. That's so fucked. Yeah. Well, the final chamber of the Emperor's throne room or whatever. And there is this Cardassian sitting there and Picard is in like his jumpsuit and handcuffs and this British Cardassian stands up and explains to Picard that he's going to be a very interesting challenge. Yeah, it's going to be some real bread on bread, isn't it?

Sure is. They probably both like the same tea, huh? You think that this guy is from the London of Cardassia? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it's a sort of evil that, like the evil is kind of evil is the kind that does not, that isn't showy about it, you know? Like nothing could be cooler than this goal in this moment because he is so almost kind almost

a matter of factly Threatening with Picard's life. He's like Look buddy. I'm gonna ask the questions around here Or I'm gonna kill you like if you were talking about any if you didn't know what language he was speaking You would think they were just talking about lunch, you know? Yeah. Fascinating, tease, and then smashed to to be continued. It's one of the smashes, the smashes of to be continued they've ever done. Yeah.

Yeah. Mid-season to be continued. Fun times. Did you like this episode Adam? One of the best Ben. I can't say that it's not on my mountain. It was enjoyable tip to tail. I mean for it had issues and those issues were ones that we talked about but none of them were enough to make it a bad episode. They were just choices. I agree. I think that generally speaking, this is a pretty terrific hour of television, not without

concerns, and I think that some of that is just like the constraints of making television, but it's pretty great. It is an amazing tone shift from the quality of life episode that we just watched. Boy, it really is. There's some tonal whiplash for sure. This episode is really all about trust to me. It's the amount of trust that Picard has for the machine, the ease inside, the amount of trust that Picard has for the machine, the ease inside, the amount of trust that an enterprise crew will give any captain who commands them.

You know, it's how much of that is earned versus how much of that is just connoted through a position. You know, the amount of trust that everyone has to show Nichev for being the quarterback on this mission. Right. And the amount of trust that maybe she may or may not have in herself because there's that scene towards the end where she sends the coded message to Jeleco and she's like, how's it going?

And he, and well, in Jeleco, it was like, how's it going? And Nichev is like I don't know. Jellicose like well we lost the transmission so I think we'll have an answer one way or the other pretty soon and they just like they so clearly do not have a grasp on the situation at all. They have they have a gut sense that everything is fucked but they don't know enough to know how fucked it is. Yeah, the restraint on either the writer's side or the performance to not betray that, I think, was great. Like, to keep it ambiguous in the way that they did, I thought was good. It's such a magic trick to fuck everything up as much as this and then end the episode

because you know that they're going to have to dig themselves out of this whole next episode. And that's sort of like Louis CK does that with stand-up sometimes. And it's always fun to watch just like, like, this episode ends and the worst thing in the world, short of Picard as a Borg has happened. Yeah. He's a Borg. Oh, no.

Oh, we got the Borg. Yeah. I really enjoyed it as well. Adam, do you want to move on to messages of the first priority, unlike the code that Jellico is transmitting to Admiral Nacayev? Hope and secure channel to Admiral Nacayev. Priority 2, put it through to my Ready Room Pissar. Yeah, hey Admiral, why don't you elevate that up to priority 1? I think everyone would understand.

If this is a priority 1 message to check the status of the secret mission And we've got a couple of p1s here the first is first is from Lieutenant HBC and crewman landers to the Jester Ferguson's. Oh, we've heard from these folks before, right? Yeah. Here's the message. Please be advised, Lieutenant HBC, she who is my wife, will be adding a new cadet to the duty raster in October. The finest crew in Portland looks forward to serving with the girl.

Hahaha. Wow. Is that our first baby announcement? Prior to you one? God. You know, at the at the risk of of insulting someone who may have p1 this before, I think it is. It's one of a very few at the very least, which is... Those are always touching. Wow. Congratulations, guys. Yeah, big congrats.

Back in Portland, sometimes soon to do another live show, huh? I am...look, Ben, I think you and I are of the same mind on this. We are interested in growing our viewership by any means necessary, both by marketing, by touring, and by actual reproduction. Yep. So thanks for the help guys. That's the way we're gonna do it, Adam. Ben, our second priority one message is from PamExanderPamilton of the clan Pam!

It is for Trevunculus, Triacl, trev, trevils of the utmost dimension. I feel like these are exercises I should do before we record a show. Yeah, to let their yellow leather, to let their yellow leather. Elasticize my pronunciation. The message goes like this, You are my curmudgeonly heartstring. My raw god, I evidently needed more linguistic training before reading this. The tip of the tongue, the teeth, and the lips. Lion face,

lemon face. You are my curmudgeonly heartstring. My walrus that barks at midnight. Your hipster seawalls have crumbled under my oceany blast of dorkitude. Inevitable and likely glorious for you. Your birthday adulation is well received, trebles, and shall continue. Next, admit what a flaming piece of shit gravity is. Seriously, fuck that movie. Love Pam! Ha ha ha!

Gravity was not a piece of shit. Look, I... I think Pam is great. I enjoy saying Pam's name in the way that I've been instructed to, however. Yes. I did enjoy gravity. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah

Scary. Yeah, yeah, that was long takes that reentry scene. Oh Mama the The crawl out of the swamp like like primordial human spoiler alert That was great. That was great! That's uh... look we can agree. We can agree on a lot of things, Pam. Mostly, mostly how majestic the oceany blast of dorkitude

can be. But one place that we do disagree much ly about is the relative quality of the movie gravity. I don't know that I've seen a quarone that I didn't think was great. That's what I'm saying man I ride for carone big time. Love those long takes. Love them. Yeah. Well one thing we love as

much as a long take is a long P1 Tell you were wrapping up the show buddy now I Would never those who wish to see how long they can stretch our takes can go to maximum MaximumFun.org, slash Jembo Tron, and submit a personal long take or a commercial long take. Personal messages are $100. Commercial messages are $200, and they help with the ongoing production of our program.

Thanks, guys. Darmak, Angela, and Denarga. of our program. Thanks guys! A greatest-gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre- and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it!

The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information for the share your embarrassment tour. I'm Jordan Morris and I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level.

We got stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweirds. Pat Naswald. Can I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org.

Look, your podcast apps are already open. Just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goat try. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Oh, rice. Hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out.

I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not and they've such short nacks. But I'm hearing we need to get on this. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, are you Noah?

Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came two by two. What do you think? O'Neil Ross and Kerry, available on MaximumFun.org. Hey Adam! What's up, Ben? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? I did, Ben. you know there's a certain spirit about drunk Shimodas where they are often the ones who are having the most fun in a scene. And to me, like no one inhabits that feeling more than Ronnie Cox.

Like the times that I feel the most envy for actors on the show are when an actor parachutes in to an episode and they just take it over. They like, box out everyone else and they like, I've got this. And Ronnie Cox is that guy and it's got to be such a great treat for an actor to be like, this is a show that six seasons in. And I have a chance to like flip everything upside down and be the captain of the Enterprise. Like, are you fucking kidding?

They made me a peanut butter and banana sandwich and I'm gonna eat that shit up. Yeah, and he goes all the way on Jellico. Like, no half measures. He is amazing. You can't take your eyes off of him. Like he is all the way at 11 on his character. And that seems like the most fun thing to do if you're an actor.

He clearly looks like he's having a blast. He is an atrocity as a captain in many ways, but I love him. I ride for Jellico, for sure, so he's my drunk Shimoda. Nice. How about you, Ben? I'm so used to this flip and format. I wasn't sure what to do there. My Shimoda is is worth. We didn't really deal with the scene much in our little review, but there is a scene where there is kind of another B-star Wars transport with some Ferengi who is delivering shit to this cardacian planet.

And the way they do it is like Picard kind of goes and gives a square business proposition to the Ferengi. And this is like a guy who he's like the guy that will will take it to the guy. He's not the captain that they're of the ship they're trying to get on. He's just a go-between. Yeah. Picard fails to book this. Beverly then puts on her womanly charm and breathily and touchily implores this for Angi to do what they're asking him to do. I would be very, yes. Grateful.

Really like just put some potting mix in that, in that terracotta and digs a little hole with your finger and climbs in. They cut back to Picard sitting at the table and you just hear a, from underneath it. Yeah, you can do that. The cards gotta be liking this.

But you also in that shot have worth standing just over his right shoulder. And worth just looks so disgusted. Yeah. Like Michael Dorne said volumes in the way he portrayed Wharf in this scene. And like I don't think Wharf has any lines in the scene necessarily. Yeah. Or very few, but Wharf definitely has strong feelings about the potted plant situation

that's taking place. And I feel like he is reacting to the writer's room as much as anything. So Wharf got my Shimoda for this episode. Yeah, I don't feel like a warrior does this. You know, like a warrior is unfamiliar with this sort of coercion. No, not into it. It's too much exploits the like, you know, and like, come on, Frankies are too easy to manipulate. Like, if they're gonna be an interesting adversary

and all you have to do is unzip your uniform a little bit and get a breathy voice going, like not scary anymore. I love a cantina scene and they clearly have the set for it. I wanna go back here all the time. You bring up a great point about, does it always have to be a forengie? There was a, there was an opera house alien in this scene.

Like why not, why not use him? Let's use a different alien. Let's use a different alien. Nope. Pfft. Let's use a different alien. Nope. Hey, Ben, do we ever finish this two-parter? What's coming in the next episode? The next episode is season six, episode 11. Chain of Command, part two.

So we're not going to get a Ronnie Cox part two? Well, under the command of an unfeeling new captain the enterprise attempts to rescue Picard from the card acians do you remember this episode Adam? I remember four episodes I believe there were five. Oh, yeah, it's a longer arc than I think you're remembering. Yeah. Yeah, the exciting conclusion. Like I'm forward to it.

Yeah, me too. It's been a long time since I've seen either of these episodes. So I'm excited to dig back in. Me too. Well, that will be our next one in the meantime. We've got lots of ways that you can connect with us and next one in the meantime. We've got lots of ways that you can connect with us and other viewers of the show. You can use the hashtag GreatestGen on Twitter. Adam is at Cut for Time. I'm at BenjaminR, A.H.R.

Keep dropping my pen, man. You can go on Facebook. There's a great Facebook GreatestGen group. There's a great subreddit. Those are Those are lively and fun communities. Not full of assholes. Yeah, like all other online things. Yeah Surprisingly asshole free. Yeah somebody on the Facebook had like a post like trying to decode why it was so asshole free and I was like man a post like trying to decode why it was so asshole free. And I was like, man, I wish I knew why this was so asshole free. I don't know that we deserve it, but it's really delightful.

There is a secret Facebook group, just of maximum fun hosts and producers. And one of the recent questions or topics brought up was like, oh, guys, how do you even deal with this Facebook thing? Like it's just a fucking riot of fists and fur and like How many how many moderators do you get like you need like 20 moderators, right? And I was I read this thread and I was like wow, we are really lucky. I started to type a response And it was like this is just gonna either come off as braggie or I don't know what I'm talking about So yeah, yeah exactly. I'd have nothing to contribute. I stay that attitude for the same reason We didn't do anything to engender that that's that's all you guys and you guys are great. Yeah

We should thank dark materia for our theme music and Adam or Gusea for a lot of the other great music here on the show. And with that, we will be back at you next week with another great episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation. And an episode of the greatest generation that will be... BORGH! AUS! BORGH! Make it so.

Make it so. Make it so. Make it so. Make it so. Make it so. Make it so. Make it so. You'll be caught up in you and you'll be caught up in you Make it sound, make it sound Make it sound

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