The Greatest Generation - Critical Kazon Theory (VOY S2E14)

Episode Date: August 30, 2021

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Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

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It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast. I'm Ben Harrison. I'm Adam Pranica. It's been a long time, Adam, since we opened packages of cards on the show. Oh, yeah. It's a... Can you make Voyager cards specifically? You know what, you just did it, man. You just asked if they make Voyager cards and now,

Bill Tilly is gonna be inundated with Voyager cards. I feel like the shitty thing about this is that it probably since we last played card war on the show, the collectible trading card market has exploded. And I bet they cost a fortune now. They do. I'm looking at the Star Trek collectible card game Voyager Booster Box.

It's a hundred bucks. God damn. Hundred bucks. What about the quotable Star Trek Voyager trading cards? Oh boy, there are a lot of booster boxes that we don't have. There's a Borg's booster box. Wow.

There is what looks like just a TMG booster box I'm looking at, which I know we don't have. There's a trouble with Tribble's booster box. I feel like there was some, like the rules felt a little different with TNG opening up cards because we both just knew the series back to front. And we were making safe decisions about who was winning every time.

And I've seen all of Voyager, but I don't think you have. And it's been a long time since I've seen all of Voyager. So like opening up a card that ruined something would be a real drag. That's true. It's smart that we're opening cards in the back catalog of the shows we've seen. Been one thing that I encountered when I was looking

for my collectible cards was my stack of Yagers. You actually maybe the person that start, I mean, it's like, it's now like basketball cards and all the different other kinds of cards are part of this, but you may have started the inflation in the trading card industry. You fucking people on Twitter, like, I don't think the Yeager bubbles a thing anymore, and then they send me a link to eBay for like a Yeager that's listed at $10 or something. But let me tell you, random tweeter,

you check back in on that Yager, it's selling for $69.69 baby. Nice. And that's what I saw at the last Yager, I looked at go for. The Yager bubble still exists. I mean, I would like to see them going a little higher, maybe $420.69, personally.

Can I tell you, like I was camped out on that card specifically. I was like, well, I haven't bought a Yager in a long time. I could add to my giant collection. And as soon as it got to $69.69, I didn't have the heart to bid it up. I wanted it to go for that. That's noble of you. Yeah, and it did.

And it did. We were giving them away for a long time. One at every live show is how we did it. Yeah, that it did and it did we were giving them away for a long time one at every live show is how we did it Yeah, that was fun But you still have quite a hard we haven't done that many live shows now. Yeah, I've got I always measure from the base I've got a better an inch and a half of Jager's here It's a it's a prodigious stack there buddy That's a prodigious stack there, buddy. We'd be proud of that. Well, what I have here are mirror, mirror expansion packs for Star Trek, the customizable

card game. What do you got pack wise? I decided to mix it up. So I had wondered if we were going to do best out of three or best out of five. So what I pulled was five packs just in case. Okay. Two rules of acquisition packs, two mirror mirror packs and the wild card. The deep space nine memories from the future sticky pack.

You know, you know the cards, the ones that are stuck together for some reason. And could potentially have an autograph card inside. Oh, I'm still looking for an autograph. Yeah, I don't think we've found one of those yet. I should, I mean, I should really switch to all DS9 cards because I really want to get that autograph, but I would say focus on the DS9 cards. Do you want to go to war, my friend? I do.

Where more? There's been no formal declaration of war. And they took your brand of some luck. Hey, did you bring us some luck? That nonsense is centuries behind us. Why? On the mark! Hey, I'm opening packages. What do you say?

Can we get this going? Oh, they're so stuck together. How you gonna do that thing where you like flex the cards a little bit to like... I do. Oh, the way we do the card game is we just flip over single cards, right? Like we don't go through the whole pack.

Three, two, one. Oh boy. I'm starting pretty strong here, buddy. Oh no. I have starting pretty strong here, buddy. Oh no. I have a enhanced attack ship. It's a gem-hadar tick constructed in the Alpha Quadrant, one of the first Dominion Fighter craft upgraded with Breene Energy Damping Technology in 2375. It's those ones that don't react to phaser fire and whatnot.

I love the brain. We need more brain. Never turn your back on a brain. A thought hit me the other day that it might be fun in discovery now that they're in the deep future to have some brain characters and like some of the veil of secrecy has fallen away from the brain. The brain diaspora out in the Delta quadrant.

Oh, yeah. Help us learn. You think there's brines in the D-quad? I don't know. I mean, anything could be in the D-quad. I think that's the fun of Voyager, right? That's true. What do you got there? Ben, I've got as one of Deep Space Nine's greatest moments. Odo the Killer. This is a picture of Odo the Killer!

This is a picture of Odo and who looks like change leader. Change leaders having a very bad day. This is that guy that snuck onto the little D and he had to kill him, right? And he's like the only, he's the only changeling that's ever killed on other changeling? Oh wait, yeah, I confused this with changeliter. This isn't changeliter at all. You could be forgiven the guy who's very flaky in that shot. It's hard to tell him apart when they look that sick.

Yeah, the episode is called The Adversary. And you're right. Odo has to kill a guy. One of his own. It's a big bummer. I don't know, man. I think if we've got to decide who wins this card war game I have a murderer on my card. Yeah, well, I have a ship that does murders on mine. My mind can do murder at scale And yours like has regrets mine has no regrets. Yeah, that's true. Yours is more cold-blooded, so I think I'm gonna give the W2 you.

Yes! This feels great. Alright, ready for round two? Hit me. Three, two, one. Ben, I have got another Odo-specific card. If I keep drawing Odo-'s, I'm just gonna lose. This one's called Shifting Back.

I'll show you in the viewers what this card looks like. You may remember, this is the one where Odo's got the TestTube friend. The TestTube founder. That's his little buddy. Yeah, the episode's called The Begotten. Remember this one, right? He, uh. Is that the one where it goes Yeah, remember this one, right? He uh-

Is that the one where it goes into him and gives him back his shape-shifting powers? This is the one where we met Dr. Mora. Oh. You remember Dr. Mora? Dr. Mora can really do some damage, I think. I wonder if Dr. Mora is stronger than your card, Ben. What do you have over there? Well, my card is T-Lock. He's a Klingon security guy served for years as a bodyguard in the house of Duros. Took a position aboard Terrac North to escape the unpredictable demands for the end betor.

He's got an integrity of four, a cunning of six, and a strength of nine. You need to have a pretty high stamina to work with Lursa and Bitura, I bet. Yeah. And you also have to be like really disciplined in terms of your like, eyelines, because there's a lot of boob windows you might catch yourself, you know, just kind of absent mindedly staring at. Haha. God, duress, what's the dope? absent mindedly staring at. Uh-huh.

God, Durass was a dope. Is there any wonder that Galron got the upper hand on him? All right. Well, I think you win with your guy there. With my test tube, Odo. All right. Yeah. T-Lock is like a total fucking jump. Yeah.

From what I can tell. I got to say, like, anyone from House De Ross gonna be a little bit of a disadvantage, I'd say. Ha ha ha. Yeah, I mean, he's not even in the family. He's like, works as a bodyguard for the family. Give me a break. Yeah, that's lame as hell.

All right, three, two, one. Ben, I've got a picture of a corpse on my card. Hmm, it's death of Tane. Heh heh heh, in a Brin Tane? You know in a Brin Tane? And you know the episode in Purgatory's Shadow, where he dies. Hmm. He told Garek that he was proud of him.

Yeah. In one of his last moments. And you're like, so wait, is he Eric's dad? I can't quite remember. I feel like we went back and forth on this a lot. Tane was a hard man. Man, I think you may have me beat because I just have a lion snore. Hmm.

Or mining and processing station representative of facilities used by the Klingon slash card assing alliance. It's like, it's not terronor, it's not Impochnor, it is a generic space station of that design. It's generic nor. Week, very week. Ben, I've really come from behind here. It's two cards to one.

I guess we are playing the best out of five. Yeah, I think we got to. Got to do it. This is make a break for me. Yeah. Three, two, one. Fuck. I have multi, one. Fuck. I have multi-dimensional transport device.

Oh. A device, transport or function to allow beaming to an alternate universe developed in the mirror universe used by Smiley, Professor Cisco, the attendant, and others to cross over. And you remember this dumb, you know, it's like a soup thermos with some pipes glued to the outside of it.

Pretty weak, Ben. But I don't know if it's as weak as prisoner O'Brien from hard time, who has been weakened from his decades in prison. Wow. I don't know if prisoner O'Brien can be anyone, because I mean as much as we love the character for his experience there, let's just like spitball what his attributes would be, zeros across the board.

Yeah. Drawing diagrams with his finger in the dust. Yeah. Hunger, ten. 10 strength zero. Diagrams five zero. Yeah, I think you have me beat there. You have to have me beat. Prisoner Brian's not beating anyone.

If you had a key to jump from university to university, I suppose you would be pretty powerful relative to a guy wearing rags, sitting cross-legged on the floor. That's what I'm saying. Sad that he killed his one and only friend. Yeah. Who may or may not have been real. I mean, I think it's pretty clear

that that was an imaginary friend. And we know how difficult they are to kill. You should be destroyed. You're cruel, uncaring creatures. Some of the most difficult Star Trek villains of all. The imaginary friend kind. Are you saying we're locked up going into the fifth flip? Yeah, I've got to sit too all.

Is that the score? I mean, I feel like you're being generous with me, but I'll take it. I could use it. All right, the fifth and final tie-breaking card is now. I have a Romulan security officer named Tegus. This guy, maybe as forgettable as T-lock. Oh, well.

That's the Klingon security guy. Assigned bodyguard duties in the capital city on Romulus. He has integrity of five cunning of seven and strength of eight. Those are stronger numerical attributes than I would have expected. Yeah, he is like numerically a little bit better than T-Oc, but not by much, buddy. You know what, everyone gets a trophy in the collectible card game, huh? Ben, I don't know if I have you be here. What I have is a greatest legends card. This looks like a special card.

Wow, I like the construction of the name. Yeah, it is for Jadzi attacks and Ezri attacks. There's a fair bit of foil on this card. Let me tell you something on the front of the card. Like this card is for Jadzi and Ezri. Yeah. Front of the card. Cisco and Jadzi attacks. Weird. Look at what they do to Ezri. She's just in a, she's in black and white on the back? With like a bunch of like static and shit over her face. What the hell? I don't like what this card does to Ezri. I don't think it's cool at all.

Yeah. It may be a special card, but it is not, it is not special to me. Hmm. God, I don't know, Ben. Do you want to call it a, a redo and, uh, and flip another pair of cards over? So we have something definitive?

All right, this gotta be definitive. It's so important to be definitive. Three, two, one. Okay, I have an interrupt card here. It says, I'm a doctor, not a brick layer. Despite his protestations to Captain Kirk, Dr. McCoy treated a grievously wounded Horta. Thermal concrete from the supplies of the Starship Enterprise made an excellent wound covering.

Sounds pretty great, but is it as powerful as the moment you've confessed your love to a person that you've had a crush on forever, my card is Odo's confession. Wow. You'll remember the episode. It's his confession to Kira in the rock. You'll remember Heart of Stone. That was a, that wasn't, but that wasn't really Kira that was change leader. Odo is like, welcome to the rock. I used to be a prisoner here.

Yeah. I mean I thought I was the clear winner until you started poking holes in the idea of this not being real Kira. But I wasn't real Kira, but it was a brave act of vulnerability on Odo's part to make the tearful confession of love. How much bravery is on your card? Very little. Bones, not a brave man. I think we have our winner, folks. Wow.

I'm ready to call it. Well, congratulations, Adam. Three Odo's to two. Ha-ha-ha-ha. We focused at the beginning of our show here on War, but maybe we should focus on forging a path to peace, Adam. Should we get into the episode we came to talk about today? Nicely pivoted, Ben.

Let's get out of all of this fighting and into some peace with Voyager Season 2 Episode 14. Eliance's. We're getting sucker punched by the case on at the beginning of this episode. All episodes should start like this. Just the Voyager taking bangers from K-Zone ships, and we know it's bad, because it's the return of Big Urn from Kingpin Hair. Big Urn, long time. For Captain Janeway, she's really getting rocked personally. They take out one of the K-Zone ships, I think,

but the ship is really fucked up. By the time the K-Zone ships, I think, but the ship is really fucked up. By the time the K-Zone bugged out, Voyager has no engines, no nothing. It's still an emergency after the battle is over, and that's because the ship is basically unable to defend itself or move. Ben, I feel like I learn a new word from you every episode. I think many friends of DeSoto can say the same. You're a man of many words, many ten dollar words even. I've got to tell you this episode made me feel foolish right up top because there got a lot of casualties down here. I've got a 10-2 first.

And I'm like, oh my God, there's like 150 people on this ship. This is bad. And then Chicoeté on the bridge, casualties on all decks. No fatalities so far. What? And I actually paused the episode and I was like, I played it back with the subtitles. I was like, did they say that right? I couldn't figure it out. I was like, I played it back with the subtitles.

I was like, did they say that right? I couldn't figure it out. I was like, casualties and fatalities are the same, right? Wrong! They aren't the same. I looked up those two words and you can be a casualty without dying. It just means you can't perform the duties of your job. Today's secret word is, casualties.

You all remember what to do whenever anyone says a secret word, right? Street! Street! Right! Yeah, so it's like an umbrella catch-all for dead or two injured to keep helping. I feel like that is very confusing

in a ship-wide emergency context. I guess it provides you context for how many working bodies you've got to solve at a problem. You know what, maybe it is better to have that distinguish that way. But anyway, I'd never heard those two words in that proximity in that context before. If I got nothing else from this episode, and I really didn't learn much from this episode at all, that is what I will take away from it. Speaking of casualties, there's a guy that is really badly injured on the floor in engineering. They say his console blew up right in his face.

Chipmunk, you're a tiger. Got a face full of computer. They want to beam him straight to six bay, but they don't have transporters, right? BLT comes so close to just gathering him up in her arms and taking him straight to the bridge. She's like, no, I can't do that. That's, this isn't my nephew, this is just some guy.

He honestly doesn't look that. I'm not gonna prove some sort of weird point to my captain. I actually, I actually need this guy. We can't replace him. I thought it was interesting, because I mean, we're referencing Scotty's nephew in Wrath of Khan. Yeah. This guy stated his panels when the others fled.

But that guy was mutilated. Like his face was a pile of hamburger meat and Kurt, the two badly injured guy on Voyager, has like a little bit of charcoal rubbed into his face. He does not look that injured. He's a Jared Nogzima away from going to the school dance, I think. I think. Yeah.

So he dies on the slab in 6 Bay. And that's one of those like, it never gets any easier scenes. Belana is very upset because this is a dude that saved her life one time and This is pretty upsetting and Chico Teig is like reporting into the captain like basically Anything important on the ship is broken and now they've lost one of their crewmates And this was one of the make-wee screw mates. They're down a crew person and down a torpedo And that's one of the hardest parts of this whole thing to swallow, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. The captain's really broken up about that torpedo. But Chiquita starts to advocate for going full make-wease in this scene. And if you want to keep doing it, the Machiway, that's fine with me. I like it a lot. On TNG, we used to get a lot of permission to speak freely, go ahead, kind of conversations. But I feel like Chicoete and Janeway have the relationship to skip past that piece of dialogue every time. Yeah. It was always very pro forma when it was Reiker and Picard or whatever.

But yeah, Chicoete definitely, especially when they're in private, feels empowered to just speak freely whenever you want. I like this. And Shikote really stands up for his reasoning here. His reasons are they've been getting their asses handed to them so often that maybe it's time to form God, what's the word? Oh, it's the title of the episode, form an alliance maybe, with one of these factions that are kicking their ass all the time. and then he doesn't stick around for her

Response it's like an in-person hang-up on her. Yeah, it's like think about it and then he like storms out. I love that Her reaction to this is extremely negative, extremely fast and I felt like maybe one thing I Would do if I had the power to rewrite this episode a little bit is Explain why she is so against that earlier in the episode because I feel like it is a later McLaughlin group when she really articulates what her beef is. Right. It doesn't make her look good in this moment. She's like make peace with the people that we hate.

Fuck that. No. But we hate fuck that. No! No! And that feels very unstarly without some contextual information. Yeah, you're right, and it does get fixed later with that later context, but in the moment here, not a great look. No. Not a great look to theme. After the break, we learn that funerals are held in the mess hall. Which has got to be a super fucking bummer if you're on shift and it's break time and

it's time to go get a little bit of chow. I really enjoyed Cruman Kurt Bandera's recorded hollow message to all 150 members of the Voyager creator though. All the things he'd learned from them, all of the like reductive observations about their characters. Yeah. Tufak, so logical, yet so fearsome. Belana, cannot govern her temper, but is a brilliant engineer.

And you, the panel that ended up taking my life. Fuck you, panel. I'll see you in hell. The purpose of this gathering confuses me. Chico Tei putting together a nice little streak of good episodes here. This is a damn fine eulogy that Chico Tei gives. And Ben, I want to be clear with you. It's actually exactly the story that I want you to say about me if I were to die before you verbatim.

Just print this out, this is what I want you to say, replace band-era with me, and then that's it. A lot of us can say we're alive today because of Adam Prandtika. There's never a better man to have a suicide. Never anyone more willing to take on the tough jobs. My family and friends won't get it, but the FODs will really appreciate it. I'm pretty sure you'll die before I do, so.

Yeah, no question. I am much, much older than you. You are, but you also take better care of yourself than I do. I think it's just gonna be like a freak accident or something. I'm just a widowmaker away. for yourself than I do. I think it's just gonna be like a freak accident or something. I'm just a widow maker away from ending the show prematurely. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Oh man. Then I'd have to find what, I'd have to cast a replacement. Could you imagine hiring a producer and a co-host? Caution's rough. That is rough. A lot of resumes to go through.

Yeah. I mean, you thought we got a lot of resumes when we made a call for people to apply to be producers on the show. Yeah, I did. You would not believe how many people. You know what would be hilarious? Is if compared to the number of resumes we got

for producer, you got like two free co-host. No one wants to co-host. No one wants to go host. Not after what happened to Adam. Yeah, yeah. They saw what the show did to him. Yeah. Yeah. After the service, a couple of Mayquise confronts Jane way, like in that way,

what are you going to do about this captain? Bandera was our bud and it kind of feels like he died for nothing and maybe you killed him. Like it gets really hostile really fast. To the extent that the Mayquise behind this other Mayquise that's yelling at Janeway is kind of holding him back. But there's a suggestion that there might be something more here between these two Mayquise. Did you get this vibe? Like, we've seen people hold other people back in a fight, at least I have. But I rarely see rubbing of the shoulder with a thumb.

By the guy? I thought maybe these guys might have been in a relationship. I don't dislike your read. I mean, the guy that puts the hand on the shoulder becomes kind of more interesting later in the episode. Yeah. But all we have to go on here now is that it almost seems like he's trying to convince

Hogan not to strike the captain. Yeah. Like Hogan, real, real cranky that they haven't made an arrangement and alliance, if you will, with the case on yet Janeway after Having just seen Star Trek first contact recently is all about blowing up the ship as a first course of action Rather than doing anything else in any conflict and card really was really up his own ass trying to not blow up the damn ship Yeah That card really was really up his own ass trying to not blow up the damn ship. Yeah. Yeah.

She takes great umbrage with Hogan's suggestion of this, of trading tech for peace. No way. I'll destroy this ship before I turn any part of it over to the case on. Like I guess this starts to shed light on what her logic is, like the assumption being that unalliance with the case on would necessarily cost equipment, or cost technology. Yeah. But yeah, she shuts these guys down and walks out

and kind of snipes at your coat day on her way out. You wanna run the ship like a make-wee ship? That's what it's gonna look like, buddy. They've come to Kazagher heads a couple of times already, and no one has won the argument yet. And I like that, because sometimes you get start track conflicts that are tied up neatly

after the very first time you disagree. And I like that this one is sort of a protracted scene of disagreement and then a different scene and then a different scene. And then we're back to this disagreement being re-adjudicated. I like this. I do too. And I like that part of the conflict

is that the lower rank, make-wease, are just like stuck on this ship and didn't agree to anything. Yeah. And so fighting and possibly dying for the mission that the captain sets out is a tougher pill for them to swallow than the captain assumes it should be. It sucks.

It really sucks for them. You may be willing to die for federation principles, then the captain assumes it should be. It sucks. It really sucks for them. You may be willing to die for Federation principles, but they're not. So Janeway visits two Vax quarters after this, and she tells two Vax this crazy thing that Chico Tay has suggested. And two Vax puts in a VHS tape of Star Trek 6 to prove his point. He's like, I was around back in this era, and I, I'm one of the people that thought that the Klingons were going to become the alien trash of the galaxy. I flip-flopped on the alien trash of the galaxy issue. Yeah.

The bumper sticker on his shuttle was, uh, was I voted for Cartwright. It's a very interesting moment because he's basically saying like this is a belief I had. And I didn't think that the Klingons could be reasoned with. I didn't think that they were an adversary that we could form, quote unquote, alliance with, but a kiddimer proved everything I thought was wrong. I mean, this, this scene actually made me think of the case on in a new way, which is that the Romulans are the chess playing species and the Vulcans are the logic species and the Klingons are the warrior species. Maybe the case on are are the logic species and the clingons are the warrior species. Maybe the K-Zon are the opportunistic species. Well, I will absolutely agree with you that this episode changed my feelings about the K-Zon,

but it doesn't happen right now. I'll tell you that much. It happens a little later for me. At the end of this scene, though, Tuvak does tell Captain Janeway that maybe our situation is more like this flower. See how I have grafted this sharp craggy pine cone onto this smooth, sweet honeydew. This could be us but you're playing. At first I grafted these two plants together and they were sickly and it was a real bay got me like situation.

And now. So we cut to him with a gloth on group. Issue 2. Big announcement. We're now pro alliance. We're going to take a run at abandoning our principles. I love this scene. Neelix knows a guy who might be able to make a good sounding board. Neelix is like, look, Cap, I'm not gonna be close minded about this,

but you might want to do a little bit of focus grouping. Jeffie slash, slash G alliance. And I know a planet full of people like that basically live behind a two-way mirror. We can get them in there, give them some snacks, maybe a gift certificate to a market nearby, in exchange for their opinions. One of those knobs where you turn it to the left and right to show whether you like or don't like something.

Yeah, this contact these guys is on the chickpea mining planet of Sobra. And before Janeway is able to fully grasp this idea, Kim, like comes out of his seat and starts talking shit about this idea, joking that Sesca would make a better ally than the K-Zon. They're like, hey, not a terrible idea, Kim. BLT is like, yes!

Which is a comment that swings the ball-kicking machine so hard at Chicoet, it basically dislocates his balls on the spot. Chicoet is like, please don't. Is there anything I can say to convince you to leave Saskia out of this? Yeah. And they're like, you know, she does still have her starfleet health insurance. So she is due to see the doctor for a prenatal checkup

pretty soon. He's like, come on, really? Portico Tez, like, all right, well, if it is to contact Jessica, it's up to me. And Janeways like, fuck that. I think you're a little too close after the beating you took over there in more ways than one. And so Janeways has decided to contact her herself. So they're going to cultivate multiple potential allies within the various

warring sects of the K-Zone. Makes sense. They're going gonna split up and Nielix is off to this planet. Meanwhile, Janeway is getting on the face time with Cesca and her boyfriend, Kola who doesn't understand that Cesca is in charge. I love how distracting Cesca is just generally because of what she did and I think I think there's an because of what she did. And I think there's an instrumentality to how these scenes are in sequence. Because the moment I was like, they didn't just give Neelix a shuttle to drive by himself, right?

We're the jangly keys of Sesca appear on the screen and I'm like, oh, Sesca, like I stopped thinking of Neelix alone on a shuttle all together. Well, crucially Neelix still has his own ship and I, like we never see it, but... But he didn't take his own ship, did he? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I thought he took a shuttle. Oh, I thought when they went and looked for him, they were like, we don't see any signs of his ship. And then in the... You know, that makes perfect sense then as to why it wasn't a bigger deal. Ha-ha-ha. Yeah, is this the end of Neelix's shuttle?

Do they lose it in this episode? Yeah, maybe. Well, anyways, color and Cess gets agreed to meet. They want to determine the location of the meeting. So that's where Voyager is off to. Meanwhile, we go to this planet that Neelix is visiting and we go to like, Kazon, B Bada Bing, where Nielix meets like, the dorkiest guy in the strip club.

There's a planet where instead of people, they got bears. Yeah, but I will plan this guy bears. Yeah, but on this planet, the bears out of people. The guy that is doing a puzzle in a strip club. Keep dancing. Why are you stopping dancing? This is worse than buy me a drink.

This stripper is like, do this sex puzzle. It's like that even, it's a math problem or something. Hey, also, Chalderza, the actions behind you, maybe do the puzzle while you still have a view of the stage. You know? The dancer is really up staging him and he just wants to be facing in the camera, you know? Uh-huh.

Yeah. So, Nielix doesn't get very far, which Altersa before two K-Zone thugs kind of drag Nielix away. Yeah, these guys kind of read as cops to me, which I didn't realize the K-Zone were organized enough to have like uniformed police officers, but these guys kind of felt that way. Yeah

The Elixas is in big trouble, but we don't get to find out what for because we are in another Mugloflin group on the Voyager where Kulla and Céska are now meeting with Janeway and Tuvac. and two Valkyries. A greatest-gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre- and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment.

Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it. The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information for the Share your embarrassment tour. I'm Jordan Morris.

And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweirds. Pat Noswald. Could I get a Balrog burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. cleared. Pat Naswald. Could I get a Balrog burger and some air-gorn fries?

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Oh, rice, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks. But I'm here and we need to get on this. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, it's about to destroy humanity.

Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans, but we're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that.

And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boat. We came two by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. This is one of those fun negotiations that gets out of control really fast, right? Because Kalei here is Jane way out and the proposal is for help, help of the kind that goes

like, look if there's a case on Nistrim ship in distress or under attack or whatever, we'll totally pull off and help. Like, we'll be diplomatically cool, but we're not gonna give you any tech. And Kala's counter proposal is, how about, like, we exchange a bunch of crew then? And SESCA is like, you're not supposed to say that right now. That was supposed to be like,

other stuff we include later. Yeah, yeah. And Kulla gets super awful about Seska again. And this is like a, this is a character thing with him. He cannot deal with Seska. It's not just that Seska's got ideas. It's that Seska's a lady. Yeah, he then like stops even dealing with the captain. He like yeah,

he starts treating two vach like the buck stocks with stops with him. Two vach does not let this fly. Yeah. Negotiations completely fall apart and the show culla and sesca the door. Yeah. And we catch up with Nielix who is being brought to the Star Trek caves, which are now a maximum security prison. There is no Star Caves, no guard tower, no electronic frontier. It's amazing how much better the Star Trek caves look with a little bit of root material.

Yeah, nice job. I mean, I think they can't do the root material every single time because it's gotta be like, they gotta make us believe that these are different caves. Yeah. Nice job. I mean, I think they can't, they can't do the root material every single time because it's got to be like, they got to make us believe that these are different caves. Right. Right. Roots are more of a special event. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, they push them into one of the chambers in these caves and it's full of refugees. And these are the trade. And Nielix meets Mabis, who is their leader. I was really weird watching this because Nielix has this gash on his forehead

and I watched this this morning after being super worried last night because my mom was in the emergency room. She fell over on a super uneven piece of pavement and hit her head on the sidewalk. Oh God. He has like the same cut that my mom had yesterday. Yikes. It's very weird.

Mom's fine, by the way. She's fine, by the way. You gotta tell us the end part. Yeah, she had a cat scan, clean bill of health, it was just a scare, but. God, we really are at the age where our parents just start fucking falling down. Jesus.

My dad said that she had a book about how to not fall over so much, because he called me to tell me she was in the hospital and I was like, what the fuck? And he was like, yeah, and it's weird because she has this book about not falling over so much. I guess she hasn't gotten to the chapter about not falling over so much. Is that seriously what he said?

You dad's fucking hilarious. That was great. I guess he looks has it either because he's got the same gash and hey, like your mom should really one star review that book by the way did not work as advertised extremely disappointed with efficacy of product maybe this has loaf that looks like the Houston Texans helmet logo I could not get over how much it looked like a bowl like a bull with horns. I wondered if it was meant to somewhat evoke

K-Zon, like if they're supposed to be like, maybe like branched from a similar part of the evolutionary tree on their planet. I tried to cop that later when they're all in the room together and they just didn't, it didn't look that way to me. Yeah, they don't have that like, K-Loid looking head ridge that the Ksons have.

So it's hard to tell, but. Maybe it's, it tells Nelix that their situation is desperate enough to where like, we kind of need your help. They keep on killing us down here and we want to escape. Are you in? It's not a very well-guarded prison and Mabis has good news that they're like is probably help coming. But yeah, this, it's, I looked down at the like playhead on this episode at this point.

I was like, man, this, this episode is just going so badly for the 400 crew. Both alliances that they tried to strike are a complete strikeout. Their ship is totally shredded. Now, Nielix is in prison with these guys. This is a real disaster. This whole situation is a disaster. There is such interesting stuff happening at the end of this episode. I just want to take a slider and pull the end parts further into the middle.

Yeah, because it takes them so long to get to it. Well, this is one of those parts I feel like could use a little bit more bulk, because I never felt in danger in the caves with Mabus and Nelix, and I think we just needed to see someone executed, or there needed to be blood and hair on the walls or something, because I just never felt Threatened down here, and by the time we get to the prison escape, like so much of that happens off-screen that, I don't know, we needed something else there to heighten the tension. If a case on and come in and like made Neelix fight one of the other guys to the death for his amusement or whatever.

Tooth your day! That's like Star Trek law. Voyager can't pick up Neelix at their designated meeting place. And because they know Neelix, they're like, all right, I guess we're gonna wait the commensurate two hours that one tends to wait for Neelix to show up or do anything or whatever. And Harry Kim is just back at his station like looking at us watch, like thinking about the 75 years

they still have of travel. And it's like two hours really. Come on. God, you know, it's like compounding interests, right? Like all these two hour increments really add up. He's like, I know we have the Delaney sisters here, but back in the Alpha Quadrant, get the Durah sisters. I've got work to do, Captain.

We use this two hours for conflict though, because when we cut over to engineering, Hogan has hit up BLT for news about how the SESCA meeting went. And BLT is like, stop trying to make SESCA happen. It's not going to happen. Show the fuck out. And it's a conflict between them that doesn't end cleanly. You get the sense that Hogan is stewing on this.

And BLT is unhappy for having had to answer for it. She doesn't like to answer these questions and she doesn't like the stank that Hogan puts on the word Captain when he says it is incredibly disdainful. Or do you agree with our Captain that holding onto our technology is worth dying for? Nordaz Jonas who has overheard the argument and what I like about this scene the most maybe is the math of it, right? There's one BLT, but now there is a growing number of unhappy engineers working around her,

and that is a level of threat that feels greater than what's happening in the caves right now. Yeah, and I think Jonas does a great job of just doing this all with his face. Yeah. You can really feel what he's going through and even sympathize with him to a certain extent because of what he is overhearing. Back on Sobra, Mabus really tries to make us believe that things are dangerous down there

by like describing it as a suicide mission. And this prison escape is accomplished primarily off screen. We see one guard, but what we do is we hear things happening around the corner, phaser blasts and such. And then we see like a little dog toy ball explode at the one guard's feet that we meet. And then they're out of there. It feels extremely low stakes.

It really does. And I think that one thing that would have made this better if is if Nielix had felt at all consequential in the escape, like if he had judo chopped one of the guards. Or if he had to do something uncomfortable related to his own sense of morality, like right, anything. Nielix do fray, who crawled through a river of draben, Kazan shit. Came out smelling clean on the other side. Perfect black, make it yourself, and find the help you see this is an opportunity to grow.

Make it yourself. The Voyagers like Sikof Waiting and they head to the planet that Neelix was supposed to go to, and instead of Neelix they find an armada of K's on ships. This is really freaky. No one expects the K's on Armada. And no one expects to see Nelix and Mabus on screen when they facetime them. These are K's on ships that they're confronted with. They've been traibed the whole time. They've been traibed the entire time and it turns out that all of those casingships

are actually stolen traib ships. Everything that the casings have, they stole from the trade according to Niles. But then we get a little explanation from Mabus that gives a little bit of a complicating spin on that story, which is that the trade were the kind of supremacist species that subjugated the case on. They were essentially enslaved by the trade. So not so much that they stole that stuff, is that they probably built all those ships themselves and were not compensated for them. Yikes is all I can say about this scene and double

yikes later on when when Janie was like, I think these are the types of people that we can work with on an alliance. I mean, he puts on a good show of feeling bad about it. Like he is. It is right to feel bad for enslaving a people. Yeah. He's not like the defensive right wing freak that's like, who cares what happened in Tulsa? That didn't happen during my lifetime. Why should I, you know, whatever. Yeah, I mean, Mabist does not want to teach critical K-Zon theory in schools where they to find a planet to settle. And I just don't know if I agree about that. That seems like some historical erasure. His primary goal is finding a world to settle. He's telling this sub story of like, yeah, we did this slavery thing and then they threw

off the shackles and now we're the alien trash of the galaxy. Look at us. The trash is on the other foot now. And yeah, they're looking for their forever home. They want to settle down on a planet and every time they try and put down roots somewhere, the case on come, you know, blow their shit up and force them to flee. And so they're like scattered and in disarray and have no stability. And he says like, listen, like we've got in our modder here. We can help you and you can help us. I think this is a moment and an episode that depends on casting this character, the

Mabus character, because their performance here makes me a believer. Like, Mabus and his people did horrible things. But the way he is with Janeway reminded me so much of Riker's dad in the sense that he was so casual with Janeway and willing to listen and tell and be a diplomat and be self aware about his own mistakes and whatever. Like it felt like Mabis was seducing Janeway. And it turns out in his own way he was, but his seduction of her diplomatically is really well done. I totally agree.

And the way you get to Janeway's heart is that what we want is peace and stability overall. And it also kind of gets her off the hook with her, my Starfleet morals preclude this issue, which is that if they come to this negotiating table as almost as like the brokers of peace between the trade and the case on, then it's Starfleet doing Starfleet shit

and not the Voyager unfairly rebalancing the power in the Delta Quadrant to make their lives slightly easier. Right. So Jonas wasn't just eavesdropping on engineering and stewing about what he heard. He's now making moves. He's put a couple of quarters in the phone booth and has made a private call to Sesca's personal secretary.

And this guy, I love this guy. He's like, I really don't get at this point the relative value of what you're offering here, but I'll go ahead and give Sesca your message. Why don't you call back tomorrow? Which I love, I love the idea of Jonas going off on this limb and not getting satisfaction right away like yeah That's that's dangerous stuff right there. He's out on his limb

He's really got to be tossing and turning in his bunk bed. Yeah that night, right? Will you let me talk to Saskar? Not without some proof you can be trusted. Yeah, I think it's a very interesting scene like it also It happens right on the heels of like at the end of the previous scene, we feel like pretty optimistic. Like, oh, maybe there is actually a way for the Voyager to be safe in the D Quad and even do some good. But this guy doesn't know anything about that. He's already made his mind up.

So in Six Bay, the Trailer being patched up and healed from their time in captivity. And afterward, maybe since and Captain Janeway talk about an alliance, he's game, but he wants to involve all K-Zone everywhere as a part of the negotiation. Yeah, so what they are going to ask for is basically a home world for the tribe that the K-Zone will leave be. On paper, this is like Catnip to Janeway. She's like, oh, this isn't just an alliance, this is like catnip to Janeway. She's like, oh, like this isn't just an alliance.

This is a chance for peace among all these assholes. Why not try for it? Right. And if it's not a flawless lasting piece, it will at least give stability to the quadrant for a while. Think of all you could do with 18 months of clean streets. That stability could be infectious. It could be like something that they don't want to give up at the end of a brief experience with it.

So there's a lot going for this idea. There's coffee in our alliance. We got to remember we've got two mustache twirling villains in play here. And so we go to Kulla's ship where he is in the conniving room with Seska. You let Voyager slip away right into the hands of the tribe. They had an opportunity to be the first people of the table before, and now they realize they've blown it. I could not let the negotiations be dictated by that woman.

I love this moment because you can't have a plan for universal peace and not have invited Kulla and Seska to the table. And they're and they're pissed off about their mistakes up until now. And now they're pissed off about maybe not being invited to this party. Yeah. And they're pissed off at each other. Like Seska thinks that the whole crew exchange program that Cullet was suggesting was like, absolutely idiotic. Cullet's like, look, you're pregnant.

Maybe you should just stay home. I mean, if we go to this party together, I'll just be doding on you the whole time. It won't be fun for either of us. Like, I'll just go by myself. I'll socialize with all of our friends and coworkers. It's probably better this way, right? And Seska's like, fuck that.

We're both going to go. And in so doing, we will assess the trapeze weaknesses in order to destroy them. Yeah. Coal is seems pretty sad, but Seska is always like seeing the opportunity in every twist. Yeah. Of course, it's locked in. You're right. But this one to me, very carefully, because I'm going to say this once. They have to decide on a site to have this conference.

Kid-a-mer is really far away, so they're going to do it somewhere else. I'm pretty sure that they must have shot a pot full of mashed potatoes at some point in here, because there are so many story beats taken from undiscovered country at this point. Yeah, it's really true. There's a wobbly triangular table and there that seems a little suspicious. Pay no attention to the wobbly table says Terza, who is unusually interested in all things triangular table in this scene. It really, it's very distracting. So everybody comes in, this is happening on Sobres,

and they have all the mages from the different Ks on sex come in like they're fucking candidates and a Republican primary debate. I love the drama of the entrances. I think it's fun. I think it's fun too, but it's even more fun to think about the anti-room that they were all waiting around in together.

I'd like the busy body with the headset and the clipboard that was like, okay, now, Mars, you're going in and then Mars, too, you're going in. I've been wanting a scene like this for a while that lines them all up. Show me all the K-Zone so I can get their differences and I get to tell you Ben. I am K-Zone Oglamar big time. All those colors, really vibrancy to the patterns and tones there. Yeah, guys got a lot of drip on him. Do the K-Zone Oglamar and the K-Zone Oglamar

is the Oglamar like a merger of the Ogla and the Mar? What happened there? Did I miss something? I don't know. I don't know. All I know is that they are the best dressed K-Zon at this meeting, and I think that counts for something. In the lead up to this meeting,

they've discussed that there may be a K-Zon element that is there to trick everyone else, and they're like, okay, like, if there's meeting a sabotage, somebody's gonna wanna leave. And that'll be, like, we'll know that that's the bad guy. And as they start to get down to the diplomacy, it turns out it's actually,

maybe this is the tricksy one. It's the one that was setting everyone up. And Janeway has enough time to warn everyone to get down. And so they they beam out of there with with the trade delegation, but all of the keys on are stuck in this room as a as a ship like comes in hovers in front of the windows and just shoots it up, which I feel like happened in like the sequel to Star Trek 2009. Yeah. Yeah, this is a very Abrams-esque kind of scene here.

My favorite shot of the whole episode was when the crew is being beamed away and Mabus is smiling while beaming, like, gleefully. I love beaming. At what he's created here. I really Beaming. At what he's created here. I really like that. The Voyager loses three more torpedoes in this scene. It shoots them from orbit at this ship which has really good shields and is not destroyed.

I believe that one of those torpedoes contained Bandera though. That wasn't one of the ones that they can't replicate. I don't know, man. I think that's probably how I want to go out. I want to be cremated or aquamated or something. Talking a lot about my death this episode. This is your last rule and testament if I'm not mistaken. But I think that's just a responsible way to deal with your remains.

Use me in the torpedo. Don't just shoot me out into space. Yeah, I was once a torpedo and two torpedoes I shall return. No casualties to speak in this craven attack by the trade on the case on. And when they give back to the Voyager, Mabys is just crowing about how successful this was. This is like, he's like, this is great. This is, we're gonna have peace finally. And they're pretty pissed off at him. A couple of times, so far in the series,

Janeway gets pissed. Yeah. And this is maybe as pissed as she's ever been. She was pissed at those organ harvesters big time also in the transporter room, right? I feel like the transporter room is really when she lets it out. Well, it's got all those foamy sound panels on the walls so she can really like Barca someone without it disturbing the rest of the ship and look at the blocking here I think this is so interesting that we're shooting down at

of the ship. And look at the blocking here. I think this is so interesting that we're shooting down at Janeway in the scene. And usually that is a composition that suggests weakness. But we get, we get Janeway looking up at this guy on the pad and tearing into him. I think that's a very interesting choice there. It's an unusual choice for that moment. It is an unusual choice. And nothing about that shot suggests weakness to me. Yeah. Despite it's like common usage for that. Yeah. Like she totally overpowers whatever subconscious influence that has on a shot. Yeah. And kicks him off the ship. She calls him an executioner. And says, we're not going to deal with people like you. And he's like, how are you going to, how are you going to survive out here? All by yourselves now that you have another enemy and you're down one torpedo.

Yeah. And they're like, we just got to get the, get the F out of here as fast as possible. And we end the button on the episode. Another McLaughlin group at him. It's funny, like as strong as a case as we were making for Janeway in the previous scene, I don't feel like this is a strong Janeway episode. And this is a scene that I think supports my theory there. She makes the case for just greater vigilance going forward.

And then does that thing that I think poor leaders do, which is like, I think we all learned something here. And that I was right the whole time. He-he-he-he-he. She, in her description of Federation values, comes off as a very, the best healthcare plan is the Bible kind of person. And I didn't think she supported her position

very well here at all. I would like we're made to ride for her because of how emphatic she is and how believing everyone is at the table. But as a viewer, I didn't buy it. Did you? She takes the packaging off of the candy bar and looks down it and says, Federation ideals, you my only friend. And then she takes a big bite.

No, I mean, like, I, you maybe have a point about the way she delivers her message here, but I think that this is a conclusion that is well taken. The ideals that prevent them from dealing with an individual case on-sack are that it would upset the balance of power and the quadrant. It's smacks of meddling, it's smacks of colonialism in a way that maybe in the short-term advantageous, but as disadvantageous in the long term.

And I think that the trade are a people who seem to be like primarily focused on short-term benefit at the expense of their long-term safety and stability. Like the trade are an object lesson in what having no principles or bad principles will buy you. Sure, but they- But- But Ben, there is specific lesson. And what Janeway is saying here is that alliances are bad because it failed this one time. And I can't get with that at all.

I think she's saying alliances with the K's on in a context that would betray what we stand for our bad. And that's what I took from it. But- I think in the way that was described earlier, I think you got to tease out the scene a little more and maybe give it some of the conflict that they've seen earlier with Kim and Chico Te,

talking about maybe reaching out to Sesca was so full of. Like get more voices involved in this moment. The speechifying of it, I just didn't like how it felt. I did like that it ended on a shot of Harry Kim just like pumping his fist like, oh yeah. Yeah. Back in business. Well, did you like the episode overall, Adam?

Yes, in first place, we'll aim for the U.S.S. New York for the U.S. New York. Captain, Captain, Captain, Captain, we'll aim for the U.S. New York for the U.S. New York. A lot of interesting things happen, I thought Mabus was a good bad guy. I appreciated how he was constructed as a character, but this is a very sanctimonious Star Trek episode in a way that, like like it's an episode that wants you to agree with Janeway and assumes that you just will. But it doesn't take the time to underpin her case with as much force as it instead creates chaos around it. Like, like the things that happened

circumstantially on this mission weren't strong enough to make the case that Janeway makes at the end in that conference room. And that's why, that's why, like, in the end, I did not like how this episode ended and I think it kind of tarnished the vibe of the rest of the app. That's a good part in it. Lots of interesting things happening. The case on parts may be the most interesting of all, but yeah, I don't know. Like not a good look for Janeway. What about you, Ben? I mean, I think that it works a little bit better for me than it worked for you, but I do agree that with your point that if this episode had been written a little bit stronger toward Janeway

arguing her point in a little bit more of a lawyer-be-card kind of way. Yes. It would have been more satisfying. Yeah. That said, I thought it was a great episode. It's a very unusual kind of conflict that it sets up at the beginning. Like we are in existential danger

and our strategy for stopping it is going and trying to make friends. Like by the halfway point, that has backfired so spectacularly. It just really does a great job of making them feel alone and isolated in the Delta quadrant. And their efforts in doing that are starting to really work. I'm really pleased with how season two is going,

especially compared to season one, which just felt like every third episode was a nebula that wanted to chomp on the ship. That's something that I can really agree with. Season two, much better than season one. I don't think anything could ruin season two. That's what I'm saying. Wow, okay. You know, there's a lot of hits in our priority one inbox, typically. Do you want to see it? lot of hits in our priority one inbox. Typically, do you want to see it? If anything can ruin our priority one inbox.

Oh, geez, I'm going right over there now. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. I need a supplement on that. supplement on that? supplement. supplement. Yeah, it's extra. The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship.

Our first P1 is of a promotional nature and it goes like this in season 6 Captain Picard fell in love with a stellar cartographer. It's reassuring to know that cartographers like me still have jobs in the 24th century and that were apparently sexy enough to hook up with Captain Picard and a Jeffries tube. If you want some sexy cartography of your own, you got a WallaceCartography.com. Whether you're a historian that needs a map of silver mines in colonial Peru or a geography nerd who wants a nice map to hang on the wall, I've got you covered discounts for FODs. Wow, amazing.

So check out wallesscartography.com, w-a-l-l-a-c-e, cartography.com for professional map making and cartography. Adam, did you know that my grandfather was a cartographer of some renown? I did not. Yeah. I just sort of zone out when you talk about your family.

He designed the map that became the logo for the United Nations. No way. Yeah. Boy, he must have been a very rich person. Not at all. Not at all. But yeah, it was kind of stolen from him as far as I can tell. We're

interesting history about how that actually happened. But while this cartography.com, check it out. Some really beautiful stuff here. Ben, our second priority one message is of a personal nature. It is from Bridget and it is to the LGBT friends of Deodo, and the message goes like this. In 2009, I was pre-transition horribly depressed and in my university room watching Voyager to get through the day. I watched an episode for the first time in years.

For episode one of the new season of this pod, and it reminded me how far I have come. Just know LGBT friends of Disodo, it does in fact get better. Hell yeah Bridget. Yeah. We're really glad to hear that you're much happier now. Having transitioned. That's really great. Yeah. Congratulations and I don't know anyone who hasn't had terrible, terrible days in their

university dorm room watching Star Trek to feel better. That is a real mood. Yeah, you're among friends here, Bridget. Yeah, totally. Our final P1 today is from Rob, and it's to Meg. It goes like this. I know you always ask not to get gifts on your birthday, but you know I love giving them. I hope this is an acceptable compromise. I have no idea when you'll listen to this,

but happy birthday anyway. Let's have some kinar to celebrate. Nice, nice job, Rob. Yeah, it looks like Meg's birthday is in the first week of May, so this is a belated birthday gift, but it's always fun to celebrate someone that you'll have with some canar, you know? Yeah, yeah. And a P1, the best gift to get someone who does not want a gift.

True, absolutely. It's a gift for us and them. Yeah. So if you'd like to get that gift, head to maximumfun.org slash Jembo Tron, and you can set it up there. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks everyone. You know, I made a easy to get along with most of the time.

But I don't like bullets, I don't like friends, and I don't like you. Hey Adam. Is that Ben? Did you find yourself a drunk Shemuda? I'm Adam. Drunk Shemuda! The reveal about Mabus is like John Doe at the end of seven.

Like he had the upper hand the whole time and we didn't know it. And he was so gleeful at the end when he beamed away, I can't get that picture of his face out of my mind. Like, very few people smile while beaming. And it struck me in that scene just how unusual it was to see him do that. It drew my eye entirely. And I think that's because they knew when they put that scene together that it would draw your eye because they're very far away from

camera. Yeah, it's maybe the most outre villain thing that he does in the episode because the rest of it is that like, yeah. Like listen, we just want to like, reasonable blah, blah, blah, and he's really pulling strings to like do a terrible thing entire time. I thought that was a strong moment for a very interesting character who I hope comes back I hope this is not the end of Mabus. Yeah, because a crappy name for that character I feel like I don't like the name you're right But he got his balls just fucking kicked in in the transporterporter room and I'm I'm wondering if he comes back for more So he's gonna be my drunk Shimoda for that. What about you? My drunk Shimoda is anyone who goes to a strip club and faces away from the stage to work on a puzzle

Oh, yeah, so Terce the guy playing the sex puzzle is your Shimoda Sex puzzle Terce Well, all sex is a puzzle to me. So, I get it. Adam, our next episode, a season two episode, 15 threshold. Paris makes history by becoming the first person across the trans-warped threshold.

But could pay for the achievement with his life. This is a famous episode. I've even heard of this episode. This is where they turn into Salamanders. I cannot. I boy, Salamander alert. Boy, do I have Salamander eggs on my face after saying season two was impossibly great.

And would never get bad. Isn't this one of the worst episodes of Voyager or Star Trek ever? How dare you. You remember liking this episode? Is that what it is? I don't know. I just don't want to prejudge it. I want to go in and enjoy the episode and then see how we feel after having what.

That's the top line rule of greatest gen. Right below the top line rule of greatestest Gen. Fine. Right below the top line rule of Greatest Gen is that we throw caution to the wind at the end of every episode. We roll dice to find out how we will be doing the next episode by going to goch.biz slash game and playing the game of buttholes, the will of the caretaker. We don't recline our seats and we roll dice at the game of buttholes, Ben. Yeah, our runabout is currently on square 23.

There's a banger right in front of us. Looks like we could also hit a naked now bathtub episode on our next, if I don't roll true. Jesus, I can't believe we're in danger of bathtub. You're required to learn as you play, roll. We could hit bathtub out of them, so I'm gonna roll it, here I go.

Hey. Oh my God, I hit the banger. Shula! Did I win? Harvey. Oh no. I hit the banger and weer! Did I win? Harvey. Oh no. I hit the banger and we are now on square 19. Going backwards.

Not to spec. All right, that really happens. It feels like when we hit something crazy, it shoots us way up the board. Yeah, that's typically what goes down. Wow, so square 19 is where we're at. Big step back for us. Big step back.

Well, we want to say thank you to everyone who helps us take a big step forward by going to maxandfun.org slash join and supporting the show on a monthly basis. We also really appreciate everyone who just listens and enjoys and tells a friend or loved one about the show. Your recommendations have really helped the show grow.

Like I think the show has grown a lot in the last year. Yeah. And so we really appreciate everyone who's put the word out about it. I hung out with my wife's sister over the weekend. And she mentioned that she does not listen to the show, but she downloads and subscribes it and has also rated it. And I thought that was just the nicest, coolest thing. So that's how she supports the show and you can do the same.

That's really sweet. Please thank her on my behalf. Yeah, she doesn't even listen to the show and she does that. If you're a listener of the show and you haven't rated or reviewed, that stuff really helps. We got to thank Bill Tilly, our card daddy and the social media director of Experts from Oda. Today's episode coming at the end of August.

We gave Bill the month of August off because he has been just putting in so much work and it seemed like he could use a little break, but he's still getting paid, and that is due to the large s of the friends of Disoto We really appreciate Bill and we're excited that he's gonna be back in the driver's seat on the at greatest trek Twitter and Instagram accounts starting in September. Yeah, psyched about that back on the scene is the Bill Tilly Mm-hmm the music you're hearing right now has been created by

Dark Materia who gave us just a free pass to use it for anything. Dark Materia is great. Also great Adam Ragusia, who constructed the Theamin and herstical music for all of the greatest generation. I really appreciate it. The Goose has a great cooking channel on YouTube that you can check out by searching Adam Ragusia. And with that, we will be back at you next week with another great episode of Star Trek Voyager and an episode of the greatest generation voyager that is much faster than any episode previous, playing at its 10x speed. This will be an easy edit then, huh? Yeah, the scientists didn't think it could be done, but we're gonna do it. Wow, you know what, I could go for a shorter edit, no matter what the cost to my personal health.

Make it sound, make it sound. Make it sound. Don't forget to subscribe to our channel. Don't forget to subscribe to our channel. Don't forget to subscribe to our channel. Maximumfun.org Comedy and culture Artist-owned? Audience supported.