The Greatest Generation - Hiding the Judd (S5E2)

Episode Date: January 11, 2017

When the walls fall at Shaka, Kiazi’s children’s faces get really wet. The beast is at Tanagra, but it’s anyone’s guess where Darmok and Jalad are w/r/t the ocean. Will Zinda’s face be black and his eyes red? Who, if not Mirab, is going to unfurl these sails? Is Uzani’s army going with the fist open or the fist closed? Is the river Temarc in winter or what? It’s the episode that opens Sokath’s eyes.

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! I'm one of your hosts, Ben Harrison. I'm your other host, Adam Pranaka. Adam and Ben on the podcast.

Fart jokes on the podcast. Dick jokes on the podcast. Benji on our Harrison. His lungs clear. Adam sitting in his basement. Ben sitting in his loft. Adam, not getting electrocuted by his podcast gear. Adam, not Shaka when the walls fell by his podcast gear.

Yeah, I got Shaka in the headphones on the last episode. That wasn't fun. Oh man, Star Trek, Puncast. Now Adam, we're here today to talk about an episode that has been perhaps the most anticipated episode since we started the show. You think? I mean, it's definitely like the one that comes up most often, I think.

When you think of the 170 something episodes of this program, this is definitely an outlier in terms of how the story functions, what it's about, it is really weird. It's super weird. This may only be the second or third time I've ever seen this episode I'm gonna go ahead and throw it right right up on my mount my What do we call the mountain of good ones? God, I don't know I I'm inclined I'm inclined to call mine the Mount Riker mountain Nuckmore This is the ones with lots of dicks in them, right? Yeah, yeah, that's a whole separate mountain.

That's a mountain they keep behind the curtain at the video store. You don't mount Riker. Riker mounts you, Adam. Yes, it's true. That's how it feels gazing upon Mount Riker. I'm sure that Riker is into bottling just as much as he's into topping.

Sure. So I'm never a sat guy. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm nervous that guy. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's easily one of the best episodes. And I think it is because it is so unflinchingly weird. I'm going to disagree with you about this. And I think I'll get into why as we move through the episode,

how about that, Ben? Wow, so some tension is already established. We're doing a little count point recount here on the greatest generation. I'm sure that made sense for some people. For people who like Kentucky Fried Movie, I'm sure that made sense for some people. For people who like Kentucky Fried Movie, it's season 5, episode 2, Darmak. The entrepreneurs headed into an uninhabited system. They're going to meet up with this species that has been

tricky to meet up with. What are the, they're called the Children of Tamar. Right. And there have been a few attempts at first contact with these guys in the past. None of them have gone well. And contact with these guys in the past. None of them have gone well and I love the way they describe how these things ended. Oh, sorry, it's the children of Tama. And Federation vessels have encountered tamarianship seven times over the past 100 years. Each meeting went without incident. However, formal relations were not established because communication was not possible. Why? The children of Thomas were called incomprehensible by Captain Sylvester of the Shikomaru. I love the idea of a ship making first contact

with these people and then just sort of giving up. Yeah, just be like, huh? They like to just shout their shoulders and they're like, all right, well, let's reverse course and leave these people. Yeah, it's an episode with a big first. We're unveiling the suede jacket era of Picard in this episode, which is a lot of fun. It really, like, if Picard, the character, were an action figure, he's been given his action

jacket. Like this is, this is a prop for him in a way that I feel like few other characters have really had. This is a red swayed leather, leather mjk it with leather shoulders. I wonder what the motivation was behind this because a lot of the time when they do a modification to uniform, it's like to cover that somebody's pregnant, and I don't think that's the case here. I don't think it is either, and if we had done any research, I think we probably could have figured out the answer to this. I just felt like, you know, Pistu is the oldest cast member on the senior staff. He's probably just going to be more comfortable in some looser fitting clothing, right? And he's probably cold all the time. Yeah, it's a drafty bridge. Ben, do you have any clothes that make you feel like your action figure special?

Like, what are, like if you were an action figure, what would be in your action figure place at? What is your action jacket? Uh, I have a jacket that I really like that I actually left backstage at our Portland show. Oh no. And uh, Boy, we really didn't make anything on that show, did we?

No, yeah. That was like a, yeah, $250 jacket that I left in Oregon. Fortunately, a friend of mine lives locally and he managed to swing by the venue and scoop it up. Uh, so I think it's, I think it's in the mail right now. But yeah, I've been without my action jacket for a long time and I felt like half the man that I normally am. I feel like this concept isn't unique to Picard. I definitely feel like I have a, I have what I'm calling like my gray action card again, what I have an important work meeting.

See this tie. It's $28. Do the shoes. $50. See this suit? $200. Like I'll throw that on there and it makes my posture better. Guess we're ready for action.

Like this seems like a thing. This seems like a mindful thing that the card's doing. May I have a rich, very influential, and very well-liked, Megalatopren. This episode, like everything before the opening title, is... It almost feels like somebody who normally writes for SNL was asked to write like a really square opening scene for Star Trek the next generation and then leave. Like, it's like somebody who's had the show describe to them a few times, but hasn't actually seen an episode. And it's like a McLaughlin group.

Is your walk? And it's like Picard and Troy and Data and Riker sitting around talking about this situation they're flying into. I guess probably Wurf is there too. But the, we come back from the title sequence and it's like, and it's like just a, it's like a play, you know? It's like a play you know it's like a it's like a it's like two parallel storylines happening one is Picard on the surface of this planet with the captain of the other ship and the other is Riker and the rest of the crew up in orbit trying to understand why the aliens have abducted their captain, why they are shooting this interference beam at the planet's atmosphere that's preventing

communications or transporter beams and what the fuck is going on? Like they think it might be like a counting coup type of situation like the Code of Honor episode, although they're very careful not to mention that episode. But, you know, for all they know, like, the aliens have stolen the captain so that their captain can ritually fight him or something like that. And it's just a struggle to get Picard back the entire time. It feels like the tension runs parallel to best of both worlds. Like this is now the second time in the span of a season

when Picard's been kidnapped and taken away from the crew. And I feel like Riker's sense of urgency throughout is far greater for it. Like, no one mentions that this is the second time the captain's been kidnapped, but it was all I could think about. It was like, not again. Yeah, and he seems more like he's kind of willing to bend the rules more this time.

I feel like, you know, like he wants to be a lot of... Are you talking about Riker? Yeah, he's cultivating lots of options for how they're going to get around this. But you know like one of the two tracks that he's got going is maybe we have to start shooting. Yeah. Are we going to to attempt to tell this story in a linear fashion? Because it's really hard to to do a story capsule when when some of it's in a foreign language right? I guess so. This made me think of a situation I was in in a... well let's start with the story I guess. We'll and we'll go from there. The entrepreneur rolls up on this tamarion ship and they start talking and they're very hopeful. The tone at the time is great.

Like Picard's one of the great diplomats. He spoke insect once to that one planet. Ah, the Clarkson-Riss, Blasplan-Armick-Carmick. He's a guy that knows how to do these first contact missions, you know, regardless of how difficult the form of communication may be, and so he puts on his kind voice, gets him up on the FaceTime, and starts doing his introduction. Would you be prepared to consider the creation of a mutual non-aggression pact between our two peoples, possibly leading to a trade agreement

and cultural interchange? Does this sound like a reasonable course of action to you? But the Tamarians' introduction is in English, but in all of the words make sense as words, but they're in an order and a format that is incomprehensible. Brie and Jerry at Lunga. And so they go back and forth a couple of times. And finally, finally the Tamarion crew gross so frustrated with their language barrier that they get into an argument on the other side. Yeah, and I mean, we might wanna come back to this,

but I feel like having seen the episode like rewatching their frustration, like I sort of headcanon some motive onto their captain as being like, we are aware that there are other species that have figured out how to have spaceships, how to fly around. Like we know about a lot of stuff around here, but we've never been able to communicate with any of them. And I want to like make sure we actually do this. Like, I want to start talking to somebody, because we know that they're out there. There's got to be something we can do about this,

because their language is so weird that they've never been able to to break through that barrier with anybody. And so I sort of see this crew as being people who are, you know, on this ship and under his orders, but really skeptical of what he's trying to accomplish. So, so their frustration is really different from the frustration of the enterprise crew who are all just kind of like,

I want to know what they're saying. You know what I'm saying? This is a fucking waste of time. You can't communicate with aliens. Like your head can and the spot on for me, but I needed that extra element of desperation. Like why are they desperate? I would have preferred to have had that tension raised

because they needed to do this for some reason other than diplomacy, you know? See, but that's to me, to me, is like why it's so good, is that he, like, he just wants to open a dialogue. It's purely a scientific motive for him, whereas so many of the, you know, like he is there to, he's there to expand his culture's knowledge of the galaxy in the same way that the enterprise crew is Those are stakes enough for for this show. Yeah, and I like that about it. All right. I'm convinced

But but petulant second Made over on the Tamarian ship is is not into this plan. No, but the captain is like, I'm the captain around here. We're going to do Darmak and Jalata Tanagra. We're going to do that. Yeah. So he's like, give me your knife, bro. And he takes the knife from, uh, from, from Tamarion Riker.

They, they, uh, he beams down and like the camera pans over and as he is beaming down, so too is JLP and they wind up on the surface of this planet. And so are two captains and I I think that we've ultimately find out that this guy's name is Dathon, but we have no name for him for most of the episode. So, Dathon is there and he's got these two knives and Picard is like, not into doing the knife fight there, buddy. I am not, Paula Trades.

I'm not the mood. Not in the mood. Moves are the thing for cattle and love play. Not fighting. And I'm not into it. I want to talk to you, not stab you. And so the alien cannot convince Picard to pick up this knife, but that's like the opening gambit. And so it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly that this wasn't meant to be a fight

between the two of them, but somehow these knives are going to factor it and Captain Death on is going to try to convince Picard to... is going to try to communicate with Picard one way or another. And you know, like he is kind of more at peace with how different their styles of communications are than Picard is. Like Picard is super frustrated for most of the first half of this episode. He's the frustrated tourist in a country where he doesn't speak the language. And he gets super bogged down with, you know, like most people do with foreign travel,

like with wanting to say the thing perfectly and understand the thing perfectly when really the best you can hope for a lot of times is just a minimum amount of understanding to get a point across. Yeah. Did you recognize the actor that played Captain Daathon? I did. Who is it? He plays the guy that the check-up beams down to a set of Alpha 6 in Wrath of

Khan. That's right, that's the captain of the Reliant. Yeah. Man. So that bug really did a number on him. really did a number on him. Yeah, he's got a lot of loaf. You could do a whole show on what happened to the Captain of the Reliant that brought him to this point. Yeah, really scrambled his brain, made him real confusing to talk to. Yeah. It's a piece of fucking jail for battle, which long does not have the liberty. Tell me more, you're not the boy. So, they're on this planet, and Picard is trying to make a campfire.

Captain Dathon already made one, and it's way better. What happened to Captain Picard between this episode and the final mission? Like in the final mission, he was, he was rugged as shit. Like he was real, real top notch Boy Scout skills. And in this one, he's having a tough time. Yeah, he's willing to, to die of exposure without fire out here on this planet. It seemed like it didn't seem like a good character canon for him. Yeah, and it was also just, I mean, it would have been one thing if they showed him trying to make a fire

and it not really working, but they show him get some flame and then he lets it go out. They show him giving up and that's the part that that urged me is that that doesn't seem in keeping with his character. Yeah. It seems like he's really rattled by this. Yeah, it's very much like a very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very

very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very very, very remaster, this is such a moody scene. They really let it be dark and it's not like day for night,

bad night scene. It's really dark and it is evocative of the difficulty they are having, you know, seeing each other, and winds up with a little peace offering from Captain Death on throwing Picard a burning branch out of his own campfire. Timber. What does that mean? Fire. Does Timber mean fire? Timber. His arm's wide. And I think that that's like, getting the first sign that we have that this is, like, Captain Death on's idea here is, like, let's take as long as we need to take to figure this shit out.

And meanwhile, like, up on the ship the ship, Riker is just boiling over. He is so fucking flipped out about the fact that the captain is still stuck there. You're holding our captain! I want him released! The Munkettanagra! Your action could be interpreted as an act of war. They've been trying some transporter shit, and that's not looking great, so they're gonna send a

A bunk bed with Worf and another security officer down to the planet surface and See if they can't pick the captain up that way and I thought it was a little A little whack that they only risk a bunk bed for Captain Picard, you know? We've talked before about how Riker and War for supposed to be best friends, even though that's a thread that hasn't been pulled for maybe an entire season. They've just sort of let that relationship play. I mean, Riker even says it, like, it's a gamble to send a shuttle down, but he's willing to do it.

And he's gonna send his best friend to do it. Sir, the Tamarians are fully capable of stopping a shuttle. I'm aware of that, that disrupting our transport of being the fire on a shuttle are two entirely different things. I'm betting they're not gonna push it that far. He's gonna send his best friend,

but one of his worst shuttles. Yeah. Weird decision, Riker. Well, the the Tamarians on the ship managed to bullseye the starboard Nacell, and it's a very a very precise hit designed to make the shuttle not good enough to do this rescue mission, but not to risk the lives of anybody on board. And so they come back aboard. And I think one thing I really like about this episode is all the speculation that's going

on among the crew about what the, what the tamarians are up to here, because it is pretty mysterious. Like they don't have any way of like seeing way of seeing what the goal is. And so everybody's projecting their own ideas of how the world works onto it. And Warf is convinced that this is some kind of clinging on bar mitzvah situation. I have confidence in his ability as a warrior. He will be victorious. Where there's going to be some ritual knife fighting going on, and like Troy is really not a fan of this theory. You're still assuming this is some kind of challenge ritual.

We can't be certain of that. She really hates that Wurf is advancing this as the idea of what's happening. You could really make the case that no one likes warf right now. And they haven't for a long time. Well, I think that this is gotta be kind of the last straw, right? Like how do you keep letting the captain

get just beamed off the ship, dude? No one behaves in a way that makes the viewer feel like there is a close relationship there between war for anyone else on the crew. Like, Gainin is the closest person to him at this point, but we're just supposed to take it as face value that their friends. Yeah. I'm not seeing the evidence, Ben. Yeah. Well, they're sort of freezing them out. Yeah, it's getting it. Warf, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting

it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it's getting, it Hey, Wurf, remember that time you almost caused a Klingon Civil War because of your stupid fucking honor? Dick.

So that plan fails. And on the planet Picard and Nathan wake up the next morning, looking pretty well rested. Nathan's not in his camp, so Picard wanders over there to check out what he's got going on, finds a couple of broaches that Nathan put down on some rocks next to him, and also finds his captain's log. Yeah, what did you think of those geegas?

Was that a religious ritual, or was that some sort of technology to like keep the area around his camp safe from snakes or something? I could have been either, but they didn't really support either contention with any evidence afterwards. You just see him do, you see him practice whatever it is he was practicing with them, set them down and then go to sleep. But that's what's so great about it, right?

Like, he does all these inscrutable things and they're like, they have the confidence not to pay that off. Yeah, I do like that, that you just see Picard regard it and then go to sleep. Yeah, so Picard is standing there paging through this guy's diary and there's like I really like Picard and I'm sure he likes me but I don't know if he likes me and I'm hoping we go to the dance together but he hasn't asked me yet and I'm not sure if I should be nervous about that because there's only like two weeks left. The captain's log is in the form of one of those folded paper, like, open up, open wide, open up, open wide things.

Yeah. What are those things called? They've a name. They do. Oh, well, someone will write in somebody. So some dozens of people will write in. So, so yeah, he's, he's like looking through that and Daiton comes running back and Picard's like, I wasn't looking, I just found this, I wasn't actually reading it

and Daiton's like yelling some crazy shit and then we hear some rumbling noises. Tom-bock! And Salon! Patanagra! I was curious, I mean, no harm. Saka! Timber! Daiton's like Timber! No, eat up! I'm not loud, Pat Tanagra! I was curious, I'm in no heart. Saka! Timber.

His arms went timber! No, it up! I'm not gonna fight you! You want to just have... AHHHHH! This is like the squint into commercial right now. And the way Picard reacts to the rumbling noises really made me think that they were implying that Picard that Nathan was ripping ass. Ha, ha, ha. He makes some stink face. made me think that they were implying that Picard that Daiton was ripping ass.

He makes some stink face. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's like, good, good lord. This alien is f**king now. It seems like we might have a rock monster situation in progress. Yeah. And I mean, this has got to remind him

of the situation in the final mission where he got crushed by all those rocks and almost died. Yeah. Probably also like a little bit galaxy quest. Like it feels a little bit like Tim Allen fighting that rock monster. Yeah. So a lot of valences with regard to rock monsters, right Adam? So many valences.

The captain, not our captain, I'm talking about Daithon here, is trying to talk Picard through a little bit of tactics. And the tactics he would like to pursue have to do with fists open, fists closed, a strategy with fists open, with fists open. His army with fists closed, with fists closed. He doesn't want this to be a shaka when the walls fell type situation. He wants it to be more of a dharma-kenjallata tenagra type of situation. Right.

He keeps saying this to Picard as though Picard knows what any of that stuff means. Picard is like, listen, like you keep saying these things. Like, I know the phrases now. Like I know all the fucking phrases. I know Tempa, his arms wide. I know Darmak and Jalad on the ocean. But I, like, I don't know, I don't know what you want me to do with this knife

and that invisible rock monster over there is really terrifying me. For some people, repetition is how you learn a foreign language. Yeah. This is not the way that Picard likes to learn. He's more of a flashcards guy. Yeah, he's not into immersion. He's more like, hey, why don't you guys just put together

a duo lingo, send it over to my iPad, and I'll spend six months working on that for five or 10 minutes a day. Sure. So they're getting ready to fight this thing. And meanwhile, up on the ship, Ashley Judd and Jordi are working really hard on getting the annular confinement beam on the transporter tweaked out so that they can try and punch it through this

disbursement field in the atmosphere. tweaked out so that they can try and punch it through this Disbursement field in the atmosphere. Sometimes when I eat a lot of chipotle, I have a hard time controlling my annular confinement beam Yeah, yeah, is that has that been true since they instituted all those food safety policies or back in the wild West days of chipotle when it was just like, hey man, fuck it, try one of these. As true as it ever was. Oh man. Well, I thought that this sequence was... I find that like three emotium really helps control my annular confinement beam.

Yeah, you go with the... When you're over there, you know, getting your napkins and hot sauce, you get a little modium to dash on the brito as you eat it. Sima modie. Tabasco brand modium. Yeah. I thought the scene was great. There's really authentic tension in both the fight scene and in the, uh, in the transporter scene and you're realizing as it, as it unfolds that they're sort of

working at cross purposes, like Picard is starting to get what this guy is, is telling him, he's saying like, fist open means like, to be with the anime, with fist closed means we're gonna do like a pincer. To attack! Fist back and forth means jerk off. That's how you communicate, it's made by, by sighting example, by metaphor. It's the first time he's kind of worked out

like what all of these little citations, the alien has been giving him are meant to evoke. They all have metaphorical meanings. They're all examples that he is citing and he is hoping that Picard will see the kind of imagery of those examples and follow suit. So they start this fight and it's just then when the transporter beam is good to go.

And that means Picard is momentarily stuck in like mid-. Well Captain Daithon is getting Molly wopped by this terrifying half invisible creature. It's weird that the transporter kind of freezes him in place, huh? Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of things that this episode really makes you wonder about with regards to the technology on this show. Like it makes you wonder, like, how is the universal translator doing this, where it can translate phrases that are meaningless,

and also, like, how does a transporter be in work? Does, like, the card have to freeze because he'll, like, half de-materialize if he moves, or does it actually, like, stop him from moving? Like how does that work? How could it be anything besides extremely painful to be in two places at once like that? I've got a piece of him command it, but that's all. On a molecular level, your body has been ripped in half.

Yeah. It's got to be awful. Yeah. No one says it. Yeah. You mentioned the, uh, the moment in Shimoda corner with Ashley Judd and Jordy. 157 over standard. To solid as it'll go commander. Welcome back to that a little bit.

They have on occasion on this show teased a new character with three or four lines of dialogue that we never see again. Yeah. And they do a great job hiding the Judd here. Like, you know, you know she's going to be a character for a few episodes in an arc coming up, but they've varied the Judd lead here. They don't give her any more than they've given anyone else. Right. So that was nice restraint.

It's the equivalent of like a Helmsman who has appeared several times on screen, gets a few lines in one episode, and then is replaced very unceremoniously by a different helmsman. Right, exactly. Yeah. And I think that despite the fact that all she's given to do here is kind of like technical jargon to yell at Jordy, like she brings a real intensity to the performance. Matrix levels. Annular convergence.

439.205 confinement resolution. 0.527. It isn't going to do it. Increase thermal input coefficient to 150%. Increasing now. It seems like higher level than your average person saying techno babble in the background. Right. She's talking about annular confinement being spent.

Was she like a famous actor at this point? She seems super young, right? I think she was just starting out at this point. Yeah. I mean, she was not a... On her resume, I don't think it's an actor first at this point. She hadn't doubled jeopardy to anything by this point. No, no looks like this one's a collector That was from the trailer

Like these cigar thumbs on Captain Daython. Did you get a load of those thumbs? I? Did he's a little some real Romeo and? I did. He's a real... He's a real Romeo and Juliette of thumbs. Let's go. Two Cubans of Gars. Yeah. They're real Cubans. They're human beings from Cuba. Now, say Cubans.

What did you think I met? The Transporter Gambit doesn't work, but it winds up that Picard is able to scare this beast away, but not before it does some pretty significant damage to poor Captain Daathon, who's started to bleed some milk, and he's pretty shredded. His hit points are almost down all the way and his health meters flashing. Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, he's like blinking red intermittently,

so you know that he's not that many more hits before... Yeah. ...before he's gonna... ...before you move on to the next level. Yeah. Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, So they've gotten to this stalemate where they know that the Transporter thing is not going to work. They know that the bunk bed strategy is not going to work and Try and data have been working really hard on the on the language thing and they've kind of gotten as far as Picard in Figuring out what's going on which seems crazy because a bunch of federationhips have encountered the children of Tama before

and not gotten as far as data and Troy have, but basically what they they like McLaughlin group that they have with Riker is they're explaining that the Tamarians speak in metaphor and everything is about imagery for them. Like their entire emotional and psychological worlds are about citing like mytho-historical images and that's how they communicate. And to me, this is the moment where you decide whether it's a good episode or not. Yeah. Well, there's a lot I like about this scene. I mean, Dr. Crusher and Troy are both big characters in this scene. They're just as important as anybody else in the

room, which I feel like doesn't happen often enough for my taste. They're coming up against this tension that I think is so classically star trek, which is we have done the science on this one, and it's still a challenge. Like, we know the grammar of this language, but none of the vocabulary, and that is super frustrating, but it's also, it shows how smart they are, you know. For an epiphany to work at this moment in the episode, the viewer needs to have the epiphany at the same time as the characters. Mm-hmm. And I don't know if it just means that, you know, we're older now, and we were more sophisticated viewers, but like, of course it was a metaphor.

It was a metaphor the whole time, and you knew it from the first scene of the show. So like for the payoff to happen three quarters of the way through and to have, you know, the light bulbs go off and the way that they do, it felt a little unsatisfying to me. Like I'm not saying that the episode is bad because of it, but they shoot it and play it as like a total gravity drop of knowledge. And I just felt like we were there before this as a viewer. as like a total gravity drop of knowledge. What are you doing here? And I just felt like we were there before this, as a viewer, like, yeah, it was a metaphor guys, clearly. I think that what they're saying is a little bit more nuance

than just it's a metaphor. I think what they're saying is we've, we like have worked out like what, like a couple of these metaphors mean, but there's no way for us to on the fly figure out what all of them are and what they're supposed to mean to us. Yeah. And, and, and that's an interesting problem to me. I don't know.

They're, they're halfway there. Like they get, it's sort of like, they've solved one of the variables in the calculus problem, but they still have a few more to solve for. Yeah, I also wonder if it sort of suffers from the matrix problem a little bit for you, where, you know, like it was this groundbreaking movie that got parodied and also imitated and changed so many things about how movies are made that when you watch the sequels, they just feel like cheap and stupid and when you go back and watch the original, it's like I don't like this, I can't believe that this was a revolutionary new kind

of filmmaking when it happened. Yeah, the retro-spect can't help but harm the initial feeling. Yeah, you know what's in the box. Yeah To mix a metaphor. Yeah, and again, like by saying that I'm not saying it's a bad episode or that I didn't like it, but It was interesting how that appeared to be the peak The climax of the episode seems to come 20 minutes before the end here Yeah Well, and that's so so the rest of the episode is like about half of the rest of the episode is literally just like Picard and Captain Dathon hanging out by the campfire as, as Dathon sort of bleeds out from his loaf and, and they kind of trade

stories like Picard tells the epic of Gilgamesh to Dathon. Dathon tells the Darmak and Jalad story to Picard and and like what Darmak and Jalad has meant to him the whole time is like two people coming from disparate places meeting up on an island, kicking some ass and leaving as friends. And that's what, that's the whole thing he's been trying to do here is getting him and Picard to kick some ass together so that they can at least have like one thing as a basis of common experience. And hopefully that will kickstart communication

between their peoples. So Captain Dathan, like, finally, has won Picard over, and Picard kind of gets him now, and he shuffles loose this mortal coil just as the rock monster comes back, and just as the Enterprise crew works out a way to phaser the shit out of the

tamarians. To knock their scatter beam out of commission. Scattering field is down sir. A Brian energides. They beam Picard up just in the nick of time. He runs up to the bridge and gets on the FaceTime with the Tamarion Riker and goes, Darmak and Jalad on the ocean! And everybody on the Tamarion ship is really excited and then he explains that Daethon bought the farm at Ella Drell and they have to touch their knives

and touch their foreheads. Chaka, when the wolves fell. Yeah. Pretty sad. Yeah, this is the second time where Picard has looked out the window of his ready room somberly to end an episode. Yeah. That's his thinking window.

Yeah. He's got a few more places to bump out on the ship than almost anybody else. Yeah. It's true. Yeah, kind of a melancholy ending, like they achieved their goal, but at what cost? And Picard really admires this other captain for putting his scientific and diplomatic goals ahead of his own life. Tomorrow, I was willing to risk all of us, just for the hope of communication, connection.

Do you think the Tamarions would have been just dissatisfied, had Picard been the one to die down there? Ever feeling the conclusion of this episode might be a little different. I have a feeling there would be a smoking hulk of a tamarion ship. Quite honestly. Maybe. Definitely the Enterprise crew would not have been able to establish any kind of communications with them.

Do you think the Enterprise destroys the tamarion ship of Picard dies instead of, uh, instead of Dana. Like Rewenge? What does it mean? It means, Omata. It means, Rewenge. Like, we're gonna get you back. That was our captain. Yeah, I mean, in some ways, I feel like the, the Tamarians are more benevolent than the Federation at this moment. Like, they, they honor the sacrifice of the captain in a way that, man, Riker is so unhinged through the whole episode that I don't know that he would have...

He would have been able to resist that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, on the one hand, yes, they are, but it's also a crazy thing to abduct somebody with the goal of establishing diplomatic relations, so... It's different when you're the abductor versus the abductor. I, yeah, I get that. When, uh, when Captain Daithon finally dies, it's like, it's like he, he shuffles loose this mortal coil and just then you hear the, the rock monster

start screaming again. And I was like, was that a, was that one of those farts that happens right when you, right when you die, you know? People like pass a little gas when they go out. I think they pass more than that when they go out and. Things loosen up a little bit down there. Your annular confinement beam turned out completely.

You know, I don't really care which dress we get. It doesn't matter me, I just need to get off this white carpet. Nothing actually, Judd can do to help you there. Yeah. You can't reroute power through the auxiliary coupling. It sounds like you like this episode, Ben. I do. I like this episode a lot.

Might be my favorite. Really? Yeah. The this is your Washington on your monument. Might be my Washington. This isn't gonna make my monument Ben. I still really enjoyed it. But yeah for for all the reasons I stated this it was a it was, I liked the episode and I thought it was good, but I did not think it was capital G great. Hmm, well, that's just like your opinion, man. Do you think it would have made the episode better or worse if we get a scene on the Tamarion ship, that is the mirror image of the Federation ship. Like where we, where we as the viewer hear them talk in a way that we understand and record a card sound alien

and like we get to experience their frustration also, or we better off having them cloaked in the mystery. So like one of them is reading a passage from the book of revelations and it pushes in on his mouth until he says Armageddon, which is the only word that is common to Tamarion and English. Yeah, something like that is what I'm proposing. We should just get it over with and start a hunt for red October podcast. Indeed. Ben, I'm seeing some flashing lights on my keyboard.

You want to go check out what those are? Let's check them out. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement on top. A supplement? A supplement. A supplement. Yes, extra.

The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship. Adam, we have a couple of personal priority 1 messages here. The first one coming in on subspaces from the Jester Ferguson's, and it is to Lieutenant HBC and Krumann Landers. That's a just reads like this. Oh boy, your cat precious is turning out to be real weird when we like that. The boy would love to see this weird cat and pee on your couch again. I can't say thank you enough for introducing me to this podcast.

Merry Christmas, engage! Loven Cuddles, Trisha, Michael, and Hamish. The boy. So wait a second. Is the cat peeing on the couch or is the boy? It's the way this reads, I can't help but think the boy might be peeing on the couch. Wow. Yeah. That sounds like a real problem. Yeah, I mean... but think the boy might be being on the couch. Wow.

Yeah. That sounds like a real problem. Yeah, I mean, cat pee is upsetting enough, but at least it's blessedly small amount of volume. Oh man, but it reeks though, Ben. I cleaned up a fair amount of cat pee in my life, and I might prefer a boy pee, though. I think to even have a preference would be

awful. And so I will withhold any preference. Yeah, you've got to withhold preference now. Well, you have another one here, Adam. You want to read it? Sure. This message was sent to us specifically for the Darmak episode, it is from JP and it is for B2H2. Message goes like this, to Khan, it slides bright. Jordy and Dada in London, their fist closed. Riker and Wurf in the Halidek, their palms open. Shimoda, his chip stacked.

Crusher at Starfleet. Wesley at Academy. Wher at Starfleet. Wesley Atacademy. Warf at DS9. Q at rest up. His eyes closed. René at Vineyard. His arms open. Picard at Nexus.

His smile wide. Riker and Warf in the holodeck. Their swords drawn. I think, I think, I think JP summarized the entire run of Star Trek the next generation in Dharma language. Yeah, that was like every, every season accounted for. Yeah. This was not a Shaka when the walls fell situation at all. No, not, this, not one bit.

This is a big success. What's Tamarion for that? Ben! Enjoying a sheet cake from his co-workers. This is a big success What's Tamarion for that Ben Enjoying a sheet cake from his co-workers Ben dreaming about a sheet cake that looks just like Ben Well, that was a fun one. Thank you for everybody that sent in priority one messages This brings up an interesting Thing in that you can request priority one message is four specific episodes if you do the math on one or episode schedule is You can you can pick out a show that works right with your specific message

Yeah, nice one. Well if you would like to do that or just throw one on in the mix Regardless of what episode it's gonna run against. Go to maxwimfund.org slash jembo-tron. It's a hundred bucks for a personal and two hundred for a commercial message. Thanks guys. Yomok Angelot. And Genoa.

A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Sherry Reembarishment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info.

That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information for the Sherry Reembarishment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris and I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweards. Pat Naswald. Could I get a Balrog burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you.

And Kumail Non-Giani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps are open, just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goat try. Being smart is hard, be dumb instead. Oh, rats, hey, they're gone. I've gotta count you in line.

These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line. And boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not and they've such short neck. But I'm hearing we need to get on this. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity.

Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. Yes, probably. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came two by two.

What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. Hey Ben. What's that Adam? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? Who is not the smartest one? Smotus one! Let the budget go the control! Shimoda! Who you make the warp drive home? Warp drive home!

You gave up the ship to a child, Shimoda! Drunk, Shimoda! I sure did at him. I Shabota in this episode is Picard. So the first time they try and beam Picard up, he's like, no! You know, because the beast is attacking the other captain and he wants to be there for his boy. Like, he feels like he's just started to kind of understand this guy and then his crew, you know, doing everything that they should be doing, uh, moves, like, like traps him right at the most important moment of the fight. And, uh, the second time he beams up, they are saving his bacon because

the, the rock monster is back and Picard is surely doomed if he has to face this thing with a small dagger by himself. But he isn't such a hurry when he gets up to the transporter pad that he just runs out of the room. And there's like a little look that he gives, Chief O'Brien, which is a little bit of thank you, but it's also a little bit of like, you really fucking blew it last time, as well. You just, wordlessly runs out of the room

without saying anything, but in that one look, he spoke volumes. What's unfortunate as O'Brien's gonna go home after work and he's not gonna have anyone to confide in. You think Kago gives a shit about his work problems? He's gonna go home to some like sea urchin, ceviche dinner when Ollie wants his potatoes. Poor O'Brien.

Well, that was my charmoda. How about you, you got one? I keep going back and forth. Like on the one hand, the decision that makes the least amount of sense to me is Riker sending Wurf based on his gamble. Like in the shuttle down to the planet, he's like, he's like, if I know those tamarians and I don't, I'm doubting they're going to want to shoot down this shuttle on its way to rescue the our two captains

So this is worth it to me like that That is weird, but I also can't get out of my head this whole costume change for Picard like if we are to assume that He was given a costume that would be more flattering for him more comfortable for him in the long term Why am I wearing it now? I'll tell you why I'm wearing it now. Because the low-talker asked me to, that's why. It's really fucking blousey, man.

Like he takes off his action jacket down there, and he looks like one of those santas that you put on your lawn that has the fan in it that's like inflating him. You look like you're gonna swing in on a chandelier! Yeah. It's really big. Something happens to the costume department in season five that was metastasized into Deep Space Nine, which is like, let's make the uniforms get dumpier and dumpier. Yeah.

Like, starting now and through deep space 9 until they get the Uniforms that they wear in first contact like the real fancy movie uniforms. Yeah They got some dump-assaurus uniforms in this shit like and if you look at Riker, I mean Friggs is dealing with some health problems on this show and he has for a couple of seasons, like if anyone needs a more comfy uniform, it's Frex. Why don't they give it to him too? Why does everyone get jackets? Jackets all around.

Yeah, so I don't know. The more I think about it, the more I'm just calling attention to the strange decision it is to put Picard in the action jacket. And also, like you remember when Picard gets slashed through the abdomen? Uh-huh. That's a great moment for maybe some rubber abs there. Why didn't you choose some rubber abs? If it had been a female character who had had the mid-riff of her uniform slashed, I would have thought it was incredibly sexist.

Yeah. But yeah, for some reason it's okay for Picard. Yeah, Picard's showing some patch. Yeah. Got that happy trail. Follow that thing all the way down to Fun Town. Do we have a Fun Town episode coming up next time, Ben? Sure do. Our next episode is Season 5 Episode 3,

Ensenro. Picard suspects a high-level federation conspiracy when the crew is ordered to locate the terrorist leader of a renegade race. Do you remember this episode, Dan? I don't think it's any secret that I have very strong feelings for Ensign Roe. You haven't been concealing that from the viewers? Not at all. No. No. There's no conspiracy there, Ben. I'm super-crushing on Ensign Roe. I'm super-crushing on Instant Row. Well, would you veto this episode or are you excited to watch a row of soads?

I'm excited to watch a row of soads, Ben. You keep making up words and I'm just letting them slide for now, Ben. Yeah, I'm sure that'll come back to haunt me someday. Indeed. Well, one thing that continues to haunt us is the continued support that our viewers give us by going to MaximumFund.org slash Donate. Their continued support really means a lot and helps us produce the show. They also gather to places like Twitter, Facebook and Reddit to have conversations about the show, make jokes of their own, jokes that are far better than ours, in all of those

places. But only the liveliest best conversations happen online, Ben. Isn't that right? Yeah, every day, Marvel at what a cool community has grown up around this show. So if you're in the community, get involved. I think about quitting Twitter all the time and the one thing that keeps me there is our viewers. So thanks guys. Yeah, the Facebook had a great thread that you called my attention to the other day, which was people debating whether they would date, journey, or data.

Yeah. It was sort of a f**k Mary Kale, but just a, which of these two would you have a long-term relationship with? And, uh... Great question. The, the ladies of Greatest Gen had a real, uh, a real, uh, interesting discussion about that. It was fun to be a fly out in the wall for that one.

Yeah. Their answer may surprise you. Well, we should thank Dark Materia for our theme music, Adam Magusia for a lot of the other music here on the show. Let's throw a thanks to the great folks at MaximumFund.org for all of the support they've been giving us. Thanks everybody for listening and with that we'll be back at you next time. Another great episode of Star Trek, the next generation. An episode of the greatest generation that just has a lot of attitude. We observe strict uniform code around here, Ben, on this podcast. Make it sound. Make it sound. Catch it, you'll know the God of the universe.

Make it sound. Catch it, you'll know the God of the universe. Make it sound. Make it sound. Catch it sound. Make it sound. You'll know the God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of God of Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist-owned. Listener-supported.