The Greatest Generation - Liquor Sherpa (DS9 S5E12)

Episode Date: November 4, 2019

When Major Kira begins the birthing process, Odo is coincidentally also “with child.” But when complications arise during their entries into the world, daddy issues strike both parents at once. Does anybody get off from comedy edging? Will O’Brien miss both of his children’s births? Where do you start measuring a Changeling? It’s the episode that’s as sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti!

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

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and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Welcome to the greatest generation! Deep Space Niiime! It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have

a Star Trek podcast. I'm one of those guys. I'm Ben Harrison. I'm Adam Pranaka. Ben are we doing silly opens from now on? I'm one of those guys. I'm Ben Harrison. I'm Adam Pranica. Ben, are we doing silly opens from now on? Dude, man, I got back on the last. That's almost one whole flippity flop.

Yeah, I got back on Monday and we are recording this on Friday and I am still not right. That's how it is, right? When you go to a far off place, the lag, I mean, that's what the kids call it. That lag though. When you get to the new place, the lag's not thick at all because you're in a new place and that's a distraction. But when you get home, yeah, back to the familiar. That's when that lag thick. That lag is really thick, man. I think it's somewhat directional for me also. Mm-hmm. I think traveling west fucks me up a lot more than traveling east. Is that how it's supposed to go?

I don't know because I went to Japan one time from New York and that was also a really massive time difference and And I was miserable the entire time I was there because I Just wanted to sleep during the day and I laid in bed Looking at the ceiling all night miserable in Japan. Yeah. The Benjamin R. Harrison story. Yeah, I marketed a very successful t-shirt to that effect. Right. But man, yeah, I'm waking up at like 4 a.m. every day. This is now. This is cut to now. This is you.

4 a.m. wakeups. 4 a.m. wakeups. Wow. Getting not enough sleep. Yeah, you're one of those guys that need 10 to 12. I'm like a cat, you know, most of my time I've been sleeping. You're far friendlier than a cat, Ben. You're not a cat because you care about human contact. I will not tolerate slurs against one of the great types of animals, Adam. Yeah, the cat would be your animal, wouldn't it? It is. I love a cat.

Cats are fine. So you're a weak back and you're still not right. What do you think it's gonna take just time and tide? Yeah, I think so. I don't know, man. I'm Are you brute forcing yourself into staying up as late as you can? Or are you going to bed early? I'd say like the first night I was back, I managed to stay up to like 8.30 and then I crashed and I slept for 11 hours. Like I slept a ton that night and then every night since I've been making it to like 9.45, 10, 10.30 but I'm still waking up super early and I just like 9.45, 10, 10.30, but I'm still waking up super early.

And I just feel off. I'm surprised on a couple of levels. I'm surprised that the lag still has its claws in you. I'm also surprised that you're not telling me all about Africa. Oh yeah. It's your favorite subject. What?

When did you tell me and our friends in the listening audience what that was like? And gets the call very late at night. His wife here's only whispers of some quiet conversation. He's coming in 1230 flights Stad a subgrade into a lay flat seat for sleep salvation He clears customs with a carnail Hoping to film some fun, exotic worlds are eating the rawest meat He returns and cannot wait to say, boy oh boy, I've got stories for you It doesn't take a lot to give it to you, there's nothing that we love more than to tell you I detect some like weird resentment in the way you brought that up.

I guess I'll just interpret it as jealousy. Sure. Yeah, dear friend of mine got married in Kenya and I went to the wedding. Pretty great. Yeah, it was a beautiful beach, a little bit south of Mombasa, and I got to ride a camel. Wow. It was a hoot. It was just the greatest.

Was the camel the person who brought the rings up? Well, the camel participated in one of, they got married like twice, two days in a row. They did a traditional Somali ceremony, the first day, and then the next day, they did like a more western style wedding. But for the Somali ceremony, they like came in on camelback, the bright and groom.

Is it hard to get up and down from one of those? It feels like it's too tall. It's really tall, but you need a rope ladder or something. They like get down on the ground for you. Oh, that's right. They kneel. They kneel like one of those kneeling buses. Yeah, but it's nuts because they get up with their back legs first.

So they like pitch forward and you're like 45 degrees forward. And then they stand up on their front legs. Like if a kneeling bus could shoot explosive diarrhea and spit at you and bite. That's what a camel is. Yeah, exactly. Wow. And they're fast too, right? Like don't they run super fast? There's camel races and stuff. There are camel races. The camel ride was arranged by my friend's sister. She was like, I know that a lot of people are gonna want to go on these camels So she just told the camel guy to come back with the camels like the day after The wedding and hey, we're gonna want to see those camels again guy. Yeah, come on back So I took like a 20-minute walk down the beach ride on the camel. What did it smell like?

Camels are smelly. Yeah Did you smell afterwards? No, cuz I was on like a I was on like a blanket. Was he friendly? No Yeah, seeing the camel was crazy So you did not try to pet him or or like form a bond? When I was up on him I would like I was like pet in his neck and and giving him pets and stuff I would like, I was like pet in his neck and giving him pets and stuff.

You're a good boy. He seemed pretty indifferent to that. He was mostly angry at the other camels and and start trying to start shit with them. Wow. And I was, you know, I felt like there was a non-zero risk, but I didn't know how to assess how big a risk that he was going to like fully get in a camel fight while I was on his back. Yeah, and you're sort of playing that out in your mind, right? Like, what are you going to do?

Am I going to have to stab this camel while sitting on him? If I have to hop off the camel, it's like a nine foot drop to the ground. Yeah. You could have Christopher Reeve yourself. I could have. Fortunately, it's sand, so probably like a little bit forgiving, but still a potential like trip to a hospital on a developing country, which is not necessarily the ideal.

What you like to avoid, if possible. Yeah. Did you eat any raw meat products? I know that's your way. Eat the most dangerous thing in any developing country. What do you what do you eat and drink? Usually the most dangerous thing to eat in a developing country is raw veg because it's often washed with the local water. Yeah. And you just don't have gut immunities toward the, you know, like I got sick the first

week I was in Ireland just because the like the bugs are a little different, you know, like I got sick the first week I was in Ireland just because the like the bugs are a little different, you know. Did you get the thing you got in Mexico? I did not. Oh, yeah. That's good. You you avoided alcohol poisoning. Yeah.

How dare you. That's good. Oh, you know what? Serious and sincere question. Was there a strange and exotic liquor that you can only get there that you had looked forward to having again? Like, as a famous cocktail, man. Yeah. I imagine it's fairly exotic and fun that way.

There is not, I mean, there's like a rum that's only available in Kenya, I think. But also, there's a, you can get like Cuban rum. Yeah, yeah. So I drank quite a bit of Havana club while I was there. And one beverage that I'm quite fond of that's available in Kenya is called Stoney Tango Weezy. And it's a ginger ale, but it's like super duper gingery. Like I would compare it to a Bund ale, but it's like super duper gingery. Yeah.

I would compare it to a bundaburg ginger beer kind of, kind of deal. A ginger beer with pulp, basically. Yeah, it's a very popular soda from what I can tell. Like every place you go has it. So I was getting stony and Havana as a mixer and it was real nice. That's fun. I mean, it was kind of, it was funny because a big part of the ceremony was a fairly traditional

Muslim affair and there were a lot of members of the family that do partake in alcohol, but many that don't and do some policing of that type of behavior among their family members. Oh, yeah. The fun relatives, you mean? Yeah. So, you know, you had to be a little bit, a little bit discreet about your alcoholic consumption, which was kind of a fun, you know, I don't think anybody cared about me drinking, but I was trying to be respectful to all the people that were there and in being respectful,

like, that's why a mixed drink was good because to all appearances I was just drinking a glass of stony tangoese on ice. You're just a man walking around with a paper bag in his hand. No one's the wiser. Exactly. Tell you one thing, Ben. I think two weddings back to back is risky. I'd never want to give my wife an opportunity

to say no twice. Like you get it done on the first night and then you're locked in. Yeah. I mean, and not just your wife, right? Like there's also the opportunity for somebody present to voice an objection. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do you, were you obligated to give two gifts? Did that work? That seems like actually a nifty bit of hustle bustle there. The only wedding gifts they were accepting were donations in their name to a charitable cause. So. Hey, that's nice.

Yeah. Good job. Yeah, I think that's the way to do it. If you don't need a set of plates and a kitchen aid mixer, I would say direct those funds toward people who really do need it. Toward the plateless. Yeah. That's a good policy.

We're all old enough to have our own plates. Forged it enough to do so. Well, Ben, we are forged it enough to have a great big episode of Deep Space 9 to discuss. What do you say we wander on over to that? Deep Space 9, season 5, episode 12, the Bego 10. No, of course you don't. Odo has a backache at him. Good morning Constable. He does, and it raises a lot of questions, I think.

Bishir seems to be treating his presence at the infirmary with a fair amount of incredulity as though this is a fairly common occurrence. But my question for you is, was the body that was made for Odo by the founders a perfect body, or are his injuries due to Odo's inexperience in using it? Yeah, well, I mean, there's some of the dialogue, maybe shed some light on that, because Bashir says that he's been walking around too erect and that that's what owes to his backache. He's not used to having a spinal column, so his very stiff way of being in the world

is causing him this back pain. And I kind of thought, but sure was going to prescribe some medical THC or something, and we were gonna get chill Odo for the rest of the episode. Yeah. I mean, we do, just not because of that. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Walking around with a spinal cord,

when you're not used to having one has got to feel like walking around with a butt plug, right? Just a really big butt plug that goes all the way to the neck. Yeah, that sounds terrible. Yeah, it really does. That backbone does not have a flared bass. New.

I think this has been a gripe that we've had ever since we knew Odo inhabited a corporeal body. Like these are problems that have been inferred, but not directly confronted. And given that this is the episode that is like our last time to ask and answer questions like that, like whenever stuff like, what?

Whenever stuff like this comes up in this episode, it makes me feel like, ah man, shit. Like we're never gonna know. We're never gonna know what it was like. It would have been great to see him like taking his first poop. Yeah. Uh, court comes in and, you know, there's a bunch of problems with this. Like, I think maybe conducting commerce while somebody is in the middle of a of an examination at the doctor's office. Yes. A bit uncouth. Also, selling a baby. Oh, it was like, that looks like a bottle of aftershock. There's no way that's a changeling.

I know it was like, oh, it'll change you. Enough of that aftershock will change anyone forever. Enough of that aftershock. We'll change anyone forever. You ever have aftershock, Ben? The high school lecour with the sugar crystals at the bottom? I'm googling it. I've never heard of this product. This in high school was the beverage of choice. This at the in its day... What the fuck, high school did you go to Jesus? This is like the stupid high school or order from an older person at a liquor store, right? Like you don't know what you're getting. Just get me something red and sweet or blue and sweet. Like aftershack came in a variety of colors.

But it all tasted bad. And what made Aftershack unique was that it had sugar crystals at the bottom. It looked like a little mountain range and the and the and the bottle was frosted. It's like it's it was as popular than as as fireball is today. And I think it's about the same flavor, which is to say bad. Oh, man, it is not good. This is so foul looking. Yeah, consider yourself lucky.

You you never lived through the aftershock years. I didn't drink at all in high school, so it's probably why. Yeah, well, I mean, I think you lucked out by skipping that and saving it for college. College drinking, I mean, if, allow me to share some, some fatherly advice to our younger viewers. I think it's okay to save the drinking until college because if you're getting your

booze from someone, I think a college-aged person will know more what to get for you than a high schooler with an older brother who's an idiot, who might get you aftershock or Yukon Jack or some shit that I did deal with. Yeah, that's gonna give you just a rager of a hangout. You need a liquor Sherpa and the best ones are in college. That's what I think. College and older. Yeah.

I mean, they get better and better. By design, they have to. There's nothing worse than the high school liquor buy. Yeah. So this is a baby changeling that the Fattcork has humanoid traffic and Odo purchases it and then they start to see what's wrong with it

because it's initially they interpreted as maybe being dead. But, but, but those are just sugar crystals. The doctor determines that it's in fact just like badly irradiated. The backstory to these things are incredible, right? The founders shot a bunch of these babies into the universe and their idea was to just see how different species in the universe treats a weak and vulnerable little baby, Odo. That's why Odo didn't know anything about them growing up. These people that are up on their high horse about we've never killed anybody. Yeah, are like genociding their own people. They're like taking scoopfuls out of the

golden lake, putting it into one of those like tube things you find at a bank, and then just shooting it into the universe to see what happens, it's insane. And so listen, I know that we have a long-standing track record of 100% murder-free. But what I am proposing is that we shoot thousands and thousands of helpless infants, our own helpless infants into the cosmos

just to see what happens. It's a real pro life argument, Ben. Hahaha. This entire plan assumes that the parents won't eventually return to pick up their kids, right? And at no point is that even close to mentioned here, and that was immediately where my mind went, was like, oh my God,

this security should be extremely tight, right? They feel a sense of security about the baby itself, but not about who might be coming to come get it. Yeah, and we know that there have been infiltrators and that their secrets are not always safe. Yeah, all of those concerns are dismissed throughout the episode. Like everyone's idea about putting up a force field or locking it down or posting a security guy nearby. Like Odo to sort of dismiss it. It's a baby. Leave it alone. What's

it going to do? Kill everyone on the station? This thing is like drinking last size at this point. And Bichier manages to purge it of tetrian radiation. And it goes from blue to gold. And the idea is that Odo is going to try to raise it for his own. And Cisco suggests like maybe get Dr. Mora, the scientist with the same haircut as you from Bajor to come up and help you out with it, change the dideys and whatnot.

And Oda rejects this because we know that he hates Dr. Mora's guts, despite the fact that they had a pretty cathartic coming together the last time we saw Dr. Mora. Yeah, that whole situation was forgotten. There's still some bad feelings between them. Yeah, it seemed like they were heading in a really positive direction last time. Yeah. It's really resets them.

This little changeling really changes Odo. We see parts of Odo's personality we've never seen before. There's a great amount of care and attention, and affection he gives to this thing. I'm not going to make the same mistakes that were made with me. It's affection that is born out of a sense of duty almost. Like, he has a long monologue that is pretty touchingly delivered to this glass of gold goo where he's basically saying, like, I'm not going to be my father. Yeah.

That's really it, isn't it? It's the new parents going, I'm not going to be like my parents with them. I'm not going to make the mistakes that they made. Yeah. And making the case that he has a real extra grind here. Supporting Odo's argument is the pan flute music of the wisdom of ancient civilizations that plays in the background. So you know it's true.

Yeah. I guess at this point, Voyager is probably going right. So they've really like, they've got like a pan flute guy on speed dial Yeah, they've got a they've got 200 tracks of 4 pay Pan flute audio at their disposal The B story this episode is Is the birth of the O'Brien child by way of Kira? Yeah, and this is like a deep bee, I would say.

Yeah. They really don't burn a lot of screen time on this, but. A bee that's almost as deep as the bees. Right? Man. I don't know if you're talking about shirts or pussy. See, I'm just leaving if you're talking about shirts or pussy. See, I'm just leaving it up to the imagination.

You can be whatever you want. For a jordan woman, giving birth is all about being relaxed. Anyways, the way the jordan woman gives birth is by chilling the fuck out. So, so somebody's going to get super chill in this episode, just not Odo. You're not bearing down. It's the opposite of bearing down, right? Yeah. There's no ice chips to chew on. Yeah, it's bliss out, baby. It's like it's like yellow. Yeah. And apparently the most relaxing soundscape that can be provided is like a couple of soundscape that can be provided is like a couple of

maracas and a gong being played rhythmically by the people present. What you want to do is raid the children's hand percussion trunk in their music class distribute all of those instruments to the people in the room and then really go to town. The people present are Miles and Keko, a, but you're in Dula. She's a Bidula, right? Yeah, I'd say so. The doctor kind of comes in and out. He's making the case that he's got a lot of stuff on his plate.

He's a busy man, but he'll brush back if it looks like it's going, but he's gonna let them do their thing and they're doing their best to get her chilled out, but she is a bit agitated because the most calming dare I say boring character in the show has not showed up yet. I called him almost six hours ago and takes half that time to make the trip from Bezier. He's really crucial for this birth, I think. Without Chakar, nobody can get bored enough to deliver a baby.

I mean, outside of Wurf, I mean, I guess we're talking about tertiary characters here. I can't think of another character that has been so ruined by this show. Like, Chakar was a fucking war hero. think of another character that has been so ruined by this show. Like, Shikar was a fucking war hero, and now he is a total snooze. Yeah, very milk toast leader of Bejor. Yeah. Shikar doesn't seem to want anything. I think that's the problem. That's it exactly.

He doesn't want anything. He doesn't really miss Kira. He doesn't feel concerned or apologetic for arriving late. He's just kind of there going through the motions. And I think that's what sells how boring he is as a character. He seems bored with himself. Right. I think it's a real miss on the writing of him.

Like, we've got Kai Wynne advocating for a specific position and Chikar just nothing for a nothing position. Yeah, I mean, Chikar was set up to be the counterpoint to Kai-Win. And it would be so interesting if he was like really different from her but also had major disagreements with Cisco or something. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of potential in that character. In a show with 40 episodes a season, like you need as many conflicts as you can get, I think. It's weird to call to sack him the way that they've done. Gold to cut, the cut, gold to cut.

So, Odo puts his baby in a beverage glass and takes it to quarks. I wasn't sure if that was just to like, so that the baby is undercover. Maybe that it, maybe there is some security taking place. Nobody else knows that this is a baby. They just think he's got another pint of ale as his way. The thing about sticking a baby changeling into a beverage glass that you're doing is you're setting up a hilarious pratfall later.

Yeah, why doesn't Worf take a sip and pronounce it delicious? It never pays this off! It was comedy edging, like throughout the episode I'm like well, well certainly now someone is going to accidentally eat the baby. It is fucking inferior. Oh, it's so bad. But he's trying to deal with kind of like show the baby around. Here's where I live. These are the kinds of people that live here. You know, Wharf comes up and asks a question and then just leaves.

I think that might be the only thing he gets to do in the episode. Constable, why are you talking to your beverage? Cut, protect the guy moving on the wink and finger gun of comedy of war for looking at his own drink, wondering if what's in the glass is actually true. Prune juice is pretty fun to me. Yeah. What do you make of Odo describing his environment the way that he

is? Because he is injecting a kind of affection for the station that I don't think we've heard up until now. Is he trying to sell the baby changeling on living there with him forever? And that's his reason for being so positive about it? Because this is also- Now, Bob, when it's like put that glass of change link down, change link is for closers only. Yeah, because this is a character up until now who has sort of like dutifully lived there, begrudgingly befriended people.

He's neutral most of the time about his circumstances. Yeah, he's coming from an interesting place in that respect. Like he doesn't seem to have any higher ambition than being the constable of these days. Nine, I guess his like main character motivation is wanting to make clear his girlfriend. You know what kind of makes sense is like that thing that happens when a character motivation is wanting to make Kira his girlfriend. You know what kind of makes sense is like that thing that happens

when a lonely person gets a pet or baby sits a nephew or something for the first time. It just sort of unlocks a personality that a person doesn't know is there. And there's this like goosied manor that Odo has for this baby changeling that really changes him. Yes, there's Gooside Manor Adam, you get the fucking dings.

You love it. All I write down in my notes are titles. I mean, that's why I never get them because I don't think to pre-write jokes like that. I just try and be funny in the moment, you know? Yeah, yeah. I try and I fail. You're jet lagged.

Yeah. Still jet lagged. Enter Dr. Mora. Oh no! He is observing this with the same incredulity as you and I are, I think. He's like, oh, that's cute. He's trying to do science, but he doesn't know what science is Mortis also a real size freak

He is really blown away at what a honker this changeling is a Buddy of mine sent me a picture of the promo item that Boogie nights gave away when it was in theaters. Do you know what it was? No. A clear ruler. I thought that was brilliant. Yeah. Speaking of size freaks, that's what it was.

If you measure up to the digler. Where do you start the measurement for the goo though? Where's the base of the goo is my question. That's a good question. The end of the Petri dish is where you have to start, right? Right. They do a lot of really fun framing tricks with the Petri dishes and the goo in this episode. I really liked how, like, clearly, they're swapping out one peach reddish for another so that like a fairly stiff gelatinized substance can be traded for one that will pour from one thing to another. And they'll do like four or five swaps within a shot by just like having having Odo's hand go out of frame

briefly and come back up with a different thing. Yeah. And I thought that that was really nicely done. I think I think you don't need to do it all in one shot, but it really adds to the sense that this is a somewhat magical substance. Yeah, it's some low cost effects work here and it works. So, you know, Mora comes into this to be the father figure that Odo needs to reconcile himself with somewhat in order to become a competent father himself. But I think Moira is a piece of shit because the first thing that they start to talk about

is like, hey, heard you stopped being able to change shape. That is real tough. I was really sorry to hear that. You couldn't send a card or anything, Moira. This is the first you're talking to him about it. You know what? A card is just a reminder of how solid he is. Like you want to do is send something soft, right?

Oh, yeah. Missing you. And it's like a lava lamp. Cross stitch it on a pillow. Yeah, Mora is really in a tough spot because Odo is treating him like an estranged father. And Mora is there to do science. He says this is an opportunity to do a couple things to maybe correct the mistakes of the past in studying a new baby changeling and also maybe correct a broken relationship with Odo.

Yeah, I mean, Odo is really resistant to Mora's administrations here because Mora did a lot of things that Odo considered to be hostile when he was a baby, Changey. It's weird that Odo doesn't see the similarity between tough policing and tough love. There seems to be a parallel there that he just doesn't grasp. Yeah, I mean, I thought that for all that, the relationship felt really realistic to me. Like, if we're gonna set aside the previous mora encounter. As non-canonical mora. As non-yeah. But like the, the resentment he

feels for the way he was parented, it feels authentic. And also when you see it from mora's side, you realize that Moral is doing the best he could with little to no information about how to proceed. And like once he realized that Odo was a sentient being changed to strategy quite a bit. Yeah. Like he doesn't get credit for that. Yeah, but both grievances are like, are like valid given their perspective on it. Sure.

I think. So I thought that that was a really nice part of the episode. It's like, it really helps you really helps you see it from both sides. We go back to Kira occasionally in this episode and her labor just keeps stopping. It's very frustrating for everyone involved. Traditional Bajoran birth, very slow and boring. Yeah, it's like in a really orthodox performance of her religious ritual It just winds up really dragging forever and ever. Yeah, you really want to eat first. Yeah. You know, maybe like a discreetly play a game on your iPhone or something. Right. In addition to the whole parent allegory, there is really an animal

training allegory going on here too, right? The two schools of thought being the Odo school of a food based or treat based way to train something. And then only positive reinforcement. And then more as rolled up newspaper way. Be still Cody. Yeah. And so that is an interesting conflict that plays out here until a deadline is given.

And nothing spurs progress like a deadline. Right. This is an angle that I thought that they could have explored a little bit more all data deciding to have a child. Like Cisco comes in and says, Hey, Starfleet is going to need daily updates. And if you guys don't demonstrate progress. Starfleet is going to want to take over the project. I was blown away that Oto was like, alright, thanks for letting me know. I mean, I'd rather this thing not get kennelcoff, but...

As long as you're making progress, there's nothing to worry about. Cisco's not in this episode very much, but he's in to just sort of throw a Molotov cocktail into a scene and then leave. This pivots the plan into the mora way of doing things. Right, which is that occasionally you're going to have to apply some negative reinforcement. The form that that takes is they have a big petri dish and most of it is electrified, but there's a little spot in the center that is not. And so this light shock encourages the goo to collect itself in the center. And they're like holding each other's hands and tearing up when it reacts to the

shock and goes and moves into the center. And I think that like this is the moment where they start to like really connect emotionally with each other. Right. Because they get to share in the success of this thing. Right. I think it's super interesting that Mora makes Odo hold the cow poker, you know, like Odo's the guy that hits the button that makes the shot happen.

Right. It can't be Mora again. And that's the thing that creates this bond between them. It has to be that way, right? Yeah. It's a depth on Morris' part to take that step back. He keeps himself, like they're going to do stuff that he learned how to do back when he was figuring out what Odo was, but he's still just there to observe and advice.

Right. The experiments, as they go on, succeed at a rate faster than what Mora was able to do with Odo, and this injects another bit of conflict between them, because Odo starts to feel what seems like envy for the little changelings progress. Like the more that Mora gets excited about, how quickly it's adapting. Yeah. Oh, it was like, well, I'm pretty cool too. I mean, at least I was.

Yeah. So setting himself up for another kind of bad parenting, which is the parent that resents the brilliance of their child. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I mean, what a fun kind of parent to have, right?

Feels good. Chicaar and O'Brien are starting to get into a bit of a conflict because Chicaar keeps on like walking in on Chief O'Brien giving his girlfriend a foot rub or whatever. And that's, you know, he's know, he's not really down with that. To the degree that Shakar can show any kind of emotion at all, it appears as though he's mildly irritated by this here. And he shows that through like manhandling Kira.

The director's like Shakar. So you're at a one right now. I need you to like at least give me a two. And he gives him a .5 instead. And welcome you into the world. But yeah, she's, she's gonna go into labor at him. She's at fully relaxed. Things are just gonna slide out now.

Speaking of things sliding, the most exciting scene for Odo is when he and Morra are about to walk out of the room and go have a chat when they turn around and they see that this little changeling has turned into kind of a wormy shape and it's trying its durndist to make a face on the end of that worm. Very touching moment, very the abyss moment. Right. This was one of those effects that they didn't have the budget for.

And so one of the effects guys just like pulled a stocking over his face and covered himself with Vaseline and they shot it. And then they calmed it in. Like it was at one time going to be totally digital. And they're like, well, we could try this thing. And it totally worked. It looks good.

Nicely done. I thought that both the digital effects and the physical effects in this were great. They had so many different textures of goo, letting it slump out of containers. Like the cranberry sauce that Thanksgiving effect. That's fun. It was really good. They showed a lot of restraint by not making that super long farting sound of a barely set

Jello coming out of a form. Right. That's just for the crew that they show later for last. Right. But Mora and Odo are just giddy with how excited they are about this. And Odo has a workaholic demonstration, his excitement by rushing back to his office and trying to get some security work done. And Mora is like, dude, knock it off.

Like, this is going great. Let's go have a drink and celebrate. Two glasses of champagne, please. But this is the conversation where they kind of start to understand where each other was coming from when the conflict all rose, I think. Yeah, I mean, this is a kind of conversation that grown kids can occasionally have with their parents

that tough love conversation in an attempt to create an understanding. And alcohol often makes that conversation possible the way it does here. Yeah. I think Odo can kind of see now how with just a jar full of goo that he knew nothing about more I tried a lot of things and many of those things wound up being Mistakes, yeah, but they kind of formed in him a a very forbidding personality I think Odo was going to resent anyone, right? Yeah, do you get the feeling that that's the point like more I could have been the most kind or the most cruel and it's Odo's personality that that just makes him the way he is.

Yeah, it's a it's a nature versus nurture, nurture issue and it's like you can't separate the variables. Yeah, interrogating that. I mean, do you think Odo had a fully formed personality when when he arrived in the beaker or was it more as experimentation that created that? Yeah. I think I'm of the camp that he already had the personality. More definitely seems to believe that if he had been slightly more cautious, Odo wouldn't have been such an asshole when he grew up. Yeah. So.

Yeah, they have a lot of, like, they share a lot of their favorite memories and many of those memories are reactions that Odo had to more as experiments that involve, like, slapping his hand away from a cattle prodge or... Right. ...or breaking stuff in his office, you know, the good old days. Yeah. Back to Casa de O'Brien, Kira is in full labor and Shakar is being a huge dick to Miles.

He does not want to grant Miles O'Brien access to territory below the Mason Dixon line. And Shakar also is acting like O'Brien wanted this. Like he wanted his baby inside his girlfriend. And my question for you is, is Shikar literally clueless or is he just like being an idiot clueless? Oh, do me a favor. Next time you have a baby,

leave my girlfriend out of it, huh? Like he knows the story of why the babies in Kira, right? How could he possibly resent Miles O'Brien for this? I was trying to think of if we have seen Shakar since this, the baby was beamed into Kira, story line started. Someone needs to catch him up if he doesn't know. Wait, so Kira is pregnant. What happened, babe?

She's spent some time visiting him on Bezure, right? I mean, he's oblivious, but he had to notice the bump. Right. And the sneezing. Yeah, I just wish that they'd like written it a little funnier, you know, like, O'Brien's like, I've been helping her into the tub for months. I've seen everything. Everything. I've seen it all. Yeah, no shit. Yeah, I feel like O'Brien could have pushed back more forcefully and it would have

been his right to do. He has been a great caretaker for her. Yeah, but she kicks both of them out of the delivery room and I was really excited for O'Brien misses both of his children's birth as a new character element. As an ongoing way to punish Miles O'Brien. Yeah. Like he is the build doughtreeve of this show. He's there to be a punching bag.

And sadly, they let him back in just in time for the baby to come out. And it's kind of like simultaneous that the O'Brien baby is born healthy and beautiful as the computer alerts Odo that something is am miss with his unknown sample. Computer to security chief, Odo, please acknowledge. Go ahead. We kind of cross-cut between gooey babies, don't we? We sure do. It's gooey babies all the way down at them.

Yeah, pretty realistic looking newborn. Like what you get in TV in the late 90s is like very big newborns. And this is one of them certainly, but a fair amount of goo on the kid looks good. A good looking kind of goo, it doesn't look just like, you know, raspberry syrup or whatever.

This child actor gets his very first full frontal nude scene. Also. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah, you get paid extra for that. Yeah, he's like the Nirvana baby. Mm-hmm. But in the infirmary, Odo is saying goodbye to his now blue baby. And he decides to do this by pouring it into his cupped hands. And you know, as he's pleading with this baby,

not to give up the ghost, it just like absorbs right into his skin. It looks like it should feel away, right? But the read on Odo's face is one of grief and loss and not that something has happened to him physically. Right. Yeah, it's like a, it's like a, whoa, where to go? Yeah. Yeah. And then something happens to him physically. Yeah. He does magic hands to

Dr. Mora and she shows that there's nothing up either sleeve. Bishier spits it out. Yeah. Get out of here, David Blaine. Awesome moment. Yeah, because Odo then pushes them aside, goes to the exit. His clothes slump on the floor and out flies a bird of prey. Yeah, he's got his changing, his shape shifting ability back. It would have been fun for Odo to just stand there and awkwardly like physically take off his clothes before blocking out of the Uber.

This belt is always the toughest part. Hold on. Hold on, just hold on right there. This is gonna be great. My somewhat misshapen fingers always struggle with these little fiddly bits. My hands are kinda numb. I don't know if you noticed that change link

to sort of disappeared into them. There was a discussion earlier that there was like a zero G trapeze performance or something going on in the promenade. And I thought it would have been really fun if this bird had flown out and then just like run a Treppi's performance or something going on in the promenade. I thought it would have been really fun if this bird had flown out and then just run right into a Treppi's artist swinging from the ceiling. Totally Fabios.

The Treppi's artist's face. I also thought it would have been really nice if change leader had shown up and been like, damn it. This is terrible O, because we hate you and we want you to be sad. This is a momentous situation here. Yeah, it's just like, hey, remember when we took this this character's like main interesting thing about him

away, it's back now. Yeah, that's really the thing, isn't it? It feels, it does not feel like he got it back on terms that are commensurate with the way it was taken away. Hard degree. And in Oto's case, soft degree. Yeah. Oto-gon gold.

Morning, morning, morning, morning, steaming sweet, morning, morning, morning,. Steve, sweet. Morning. Morning. Morning. You need to hear everybody. Morning. Morning. Stop. Hammer time. The button on the episode is Shakira and Kira walking to the transport in a way that betrays no affection whatsoever between them. Yeah. He invites her to be sure for coffee and she turns it down and then and then as soon as he leaves, he's like, he didn't mean coffee. I'm an idiot. Coffee isn't coffee. Coffee is sex.

Yeah, I mean, when she turns him down, you really get the sense of their distance, you know? Like, if they really cared a lot about each other, I think that's an invitation she would have know? Like if they really cared a lot about each other, I think that's an invitation she would have accepted. Is the relationship even plausible at this point? It doesn't seem like that's the case. But she is clearly disturbed by other things. And those other things are what she discusses with Odo because Odo and Mora take a similar walk. Yeah, and I think conversely, Odo and Mora's final conversation is extremely cathartic and heartfelt. Yeah, that's what this episode does. I mean, we're seeing a lot of things back to back

that were meant to compare. Right. They're equal and opposite emotionally. Right. And Mora is making the case that this changelings final wish was maybe for Odo to get back what he lost. I felt like this scene went a long way toward bringing impact to Odo getting his ability back that felt lacking the moment it happened.

And it is really touching, like they share an embrace at the end and like Odo like tilts his head down and puts it on more as shoulder. And I thought that was, it was really sweet. I thought this scene and their moment at the end was the highlight of the episode. I thought it was so well written and well acted. It was surprisingly so. Yeah, and a wonder where the camera pans away

as Mora locks out and Carol locks in and expresses really deep regret that she is not going to be the mother of the baby she just delivered. Yeah, she's lost something here and she confides that with Odo. And their loss is very similar. Yeah. Do we feel similarly about the episode, though, Ben? You know, this is one of those episodes that like the last two and a half minutes felt redemptive of an episode that didn't seem that good up until then.

Yeah. There's a lot I liked about it. Like I think that Renee Obers and I was performance is really great and his approach to monologuing to a bull full of goo was excellent, I thought. Yeah. But the whole baby delivery storyline was very silly and light. And that chakar stuff is really dragging on that storyline, I think. I read this as the last Shikar episode

if that gets you any solace. I mean, I think that that bespeaks some wisdom on the part of the showrunner, like seeing that that just isn't working and not trying to salvage it, you know, just cut your losses. Yeah, I mean, if you're not gonna use him, get rid of him. Like, I'm, if you're not going to use him, get rid of him. Like, I'm fine

with that. Clearly, they don't see his character as a value add or the actors off to take another job, like any number of things could be going on. So I think that like this episode pulled up right at the end and kind of kind of redeemed itself. And I think I came away liking it. I think that's really well said by you. The challenge of acting across from goo for any actor I think is tough. That kind of monologuing. And especially when we're getting it from a character who does not display emotion in the way that Odo does in those scenes.

I don't know whether that presents less of a challenge or more of a challenge for Renee Aubergien-Wa. You know? Right. I really wonder a lot about what it was like for Nana visitor to have just given birth and also express the feelings that many new mothers have about, like in the aftermath of that, and what must be going through her mind about, like, what an emotional challenge syrigacy must be.

Like, for an actor who is as intense as she is, I wonder what's going on behind her eyes, you know? Yeah, she has some very recent stuff to draw on. And I think that that really comes through, like, she's a great actor all the time, but her performance in this just seems like really spectacularly great. And restrained, you know? And that's what makes me wonder about her, like, you know, she can throw the fastball, but she's taken something off of it here in the scene with Odo at the end, especially, like it's... And that's what makes me wonder about her. Like, you know, she can throw the fastball, but she's taking something off of it here

in the scene with Odo at the end, especially. Like it's subtle. I think that that subtlety is like really smart, though. Yeah. Yeah, if you've got someone like her, I think you have to dial it back sometimes so that you can appreciate the moments where she really goes for it.

Yeah. I think when I think of this episode though, I am going to think about how that storyline with Odo was bungled. His journey from being a changeling to a solid to a changeling again was such that like we never felt the true depth of his loss. And so when he is able to gain it back at the end, I never felt the true depth of his loss. And so when he is able to gain it back at the end, I never felt the true elation of that moment. Like, he's an eagle.

And like, what's the one thing that flying is supposed to transmit to you emotionally? It's supposed to be incredible and fill you with awe and joy and wonder. But like, not having gone all the way down with him, I can't get all the way up with him either at the end of this episode. And so what I, it made me sad that we weren't permitted to get all the way sad for him. And it, and it stopped me from getting all the way happy for him. At the end, like stakes equal feelings for me and my ability to have them. And without the stakes being as

high as they could have been it was just it was enjoyable but I but it could have been like a real stomach punch and it wasn't. Yeah well do you want to see if we get any stunk stomach punches in the priority one inbox? Yeah let's step into the stomach punch machine. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on secured channel. Need a supplement? punch machine. Atom we have a couple of p1s here. The first is of a promotional nature. Goes like this.

I love your show and I'm very sad that this might mean in two years I will have to watch Voyager. There must be another way. And the call to action is Voyager is 172 episodes. This person just wrote in that they're sad about a direction our show might take in two years. Hahaha. Why didn't you just take $200, go outside and like set it down on the sidewalk and light it on fire.

Hey, I'm grateful for the $200. Oh, I am too. I'm just saying like, we're not going to get guilt tripped into doing a different thing. I mean, it's some food for thought. Let's not dismiss this entirely, Ben. We don't have to do Voyager. I like Voyager. And I think this is something to consider. I stand Voyager, Adam.

You know what? If you want to sit in your room and listen to pant-flute tracks all day, you can just do that on your own time. You don't have to involve me in it. This is a Voyager stand account. Oh, geez. Look, we have two years to decide. So I say we cliffhanger this. Wow. And just see what happens in two years.

We could be in a very different place in two years, Ben. That's true. We could hate each other's guts. It seems more likely by the day. I just wonder who this was. Oh, you think it's a familiar? I don't know. I mean, it seems possible. Which one is my camera? Is this my camera?

Identify yourself. Commercial P1 message center. Yeah, and identify yourself via a commercial P1. Yeah. Or we're not running it. Yeah. There you go. This is a real hostage situation, Ben. Yeah, this got very intense Yeah, stand publicly by your words or say them not at all. I'm a hostage stand Ben our second priority one message is for granted a distrum fill I don't think these are my grant and my fill. I've got two good friends named Grant and Phil.

Haven't we come across Grant and Phil before? I think so. Well here's their message. Thanks for being my best man without your help. Oh! I couldn't have gotten all the isolinear chips in order for this voyage. Your speech was smooth, as riker, and wise as Geinen. I promise to be an honorable Godfather to your second child, the boy.

They will grow to master both the batleth and the rules of acquisition. Wow. Your drunk Shimoda, Phil. Fun. That's like a left brain right brain thing, right? The batleth and the rules of acquisition? Also, good on you, Grant, for having a good wedding speech. Yeah, that's not an easy thing to do and it feels great to pull that off somehow. Yeah I was at a wedding not the most recent wedding but the wedding before that I was at

One of the people that did a speech was asked to leave the wedding the speech was so bad. Oh asked to leave the wedding. The speech was so bad. Oh, my God. I'm just getting the chills thinking about that. Yeah, like, got up to, uh, to, to do a speech at the, uh, at the wedding reception was like a, a house full of dropped jaws as, as the speech proceeded. And then was not around any, any longer after that. And I found out later that it was because the groom had asked them to leave the wedding Under most circumstances these speeches occurred during the plated dinner portion So did this person get up make their speech and then leave during dinner leaving their plate and glass behind at at the table like to remind everyone that they're gone.

I think that they kind of did the speeches like toward the end of dinner. So I didn't notice immediately that this person was gone. But yeah, I have to leave. That is some cold shit. But also right, you're not supposed to fuck up one of those speeches. Yeah, no. You should run it by someone ahead of time and make sure that they think it's a good idea. A wedding speech is not a time to get experimental. No, play to your strengths and be a little bit funny,

but mostly just be heartfelt and congratulatory. Yeah, guess what? The only thing you can make fun of is yourself at a wedding speech. Yes. Well, Adam, you can't get asked to leave a wedding for a priority one message. So we hope people will head to maximumfund.org slash jumbo-tron or maximumfund.org slash jumbo Jim Brochan. I think both work now. Right. And order a P1. Or a $1.4. MaxBunkinSteam.sex.

Does that go to the same place? That's just the donation page now. Okay. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, order yourself a personal message for $100, a commercial message for $200, or reveal your identity for 200 bucks.

Yeah, fair price. All of which go a long way towards the ongoing production of this great show. I already won, Lizzie. Hey Adam. It's that Ben. Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? Drunk Shimoda! Yeah, it's Shikar.

He went from being a really interesting and cool character into a fucking dope. And this was a bad way for him to go out. Yeah. I don't lay this at the feet of the actor who plays Shikar whatsoever because we know what he's capable of. He's a pretty cool dude, but... He seems good. I wish he had just gone out in a hail of phaser fire or something. Or like a transporter accident that reduced him into a mist.

Like, yeah, or like got assimilated by the boards. Something like really intense. I know we're gonna hear about what happened to him and he will leave off camera, but it's, I don't know, it's too bad. Like when Kira really cares about a person or a thing, I think whenever that person or thing goes away, they should be given the gift of like a proper son of. Right, you want him lying on the ground,

coughing up blood while she leans over him, or we think. Couldn't you just see it? I mean, that's when we met them both at that farmhouse on Beijor, like that's what the promise was. Mouthful of blood. Yeah, that's what that character was set up to do. Yeah, he was meant to get kicked by a bejure and mule

and dying in a crumpled heap outside his farm. What about you, Ben? Who's your drunk Shimoda? I drunk Shimoda is Dr. Mora for not sending that card when he heard about Odo, with his shape shifting ability. It's easy to send a card. Yeah.

You know, like it seems like a hassle. Oh, I gotta go down to the wall greens and get a hallmark. Just make it happen. It'll take five minutes. And then that person knows that you're thinking about them and you care about them. It's fun to send cards and it doesn't have to be that hard. You know what you do? You buy a stack

of cards without an occasion to send them. And then when the occasion arises, you get your blanks. That's what you do. Life pro tip. Then you're ready to go with a card. You can make a person's day by sending them a card. And not just an old person either. People of all ages appreciate getting a card. Yeah, it's nice to get a card. Send a card. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Sherry Reembarishment Tour is coming in August 2023. We've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to greatestgentour.com to get more info. That's greatestgentour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Sherry Reembarishment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the space weirds. Pat Noswald.

Can I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Non-Giani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look your podcast apps are already open, just pull it out, give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead.

Oh, rats, hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line. And boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good I hate having to stand in line and boy These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not and they've such short neck But I'm hearing we need to get on this off got to get on the art. Yeah, it's about terrain. Got us about to destroy humanity Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. Oh, we're actually we're podcasters We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ohno Ross and Kerry? We investigate spirituality claims of the paranormal, stuff like that.

And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boat. We came to by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun or dot org. What do we have coming up on the next episode of this great program, Ben? The next episode is season 5 episode 13 for the uniform. Cisco risks everything to capture a former crew member who deceived him and joined the Makewies. Sounds like a fun cowl hoods in episode been. That would be great. The only way to know that is by going to

gochda bis slash game and consulting the game of but holes will of the profits. That's true Adam. Currently we are on square 37 and I think that this is one of those rare squares on the board where no matter what we roll, we are going to have a normal episode. So very little in the way of suspense. Wow. As I roll this bone. All right. You're required to learn as you play roll.

But I'm going to roll it anyways because we got to advance the game piece. Those are the rules. We didn't make a... No, I didn't. I just do what I am told. No matter what the horrible consequences are. All right, here we go. And I have rolled a four,

so we are on square 41. Chula! Did I win? Harvey. Which for the next time puts us in range of a cocoa no-no. You know what I noticed for the first time? The runabout turns around when you reach the end of a row. That's nice.

Yeah, but it did a really nice, nice job setting this website up for us. I like that too. I like how it sort of pulses. Yeah, it makes it a little easier to spot now that it's a slightly animated. This is really well done. Yeah, classy operation over there at Game of Buttholes. The will of the profits. Way better done than this stupid show.

Here we are. Here we are, almost to episode 5,000 with just 4,000 more ups before we start Voyager. Yep. Yeah, much to one anonymous person's chagrin. But we have some thank yous to give out. First and foremost, we should thank the friends of DeSoto who contribute to the production of the program by donating it Maximumfund.org slash donate we hugely appreciate all of the generous support It has made this into a the professional pursuit for us if not a professional operation. It's right

Support for the show also comes from seeing us at live shows and and buying some merch we've got t-shirts and hoodies and glasses all sorts of things the Max Fun store and also we are on tour right now if you're listening to the show on the day of its release we're gonna be in Portland tonight. Portland Oregon. Whoa head to greatest greatestgentour.com. And, you know, I would imagine Portland would have sold out by now, but I have no way of knowing for sure. Yeah, no idea.

If Portland is sold out, buy a ticket to one of our other shows happening throughout the year that potentially aren't sold out. Use the hashtag greatestgen to talk about the show online. There are social networks, all kinds for this show. Built Tilly is on almost all of them posting his hilarious custom trading cards for each episode. One of my favorite parts of the show. Built Tilly, truly the Eddington of the greatest generation.

What? I'm waiting for the double crossband. Whoa! Nothing would shock me more than a build double crossdust. I know. Wouldn't it? I would never see you coming. Yeah.

Never. I would never trust again. No. It would never love again or trust again. No more friends. It would build double crossdust. I wouldn't know what to believe. So I would just be a drift trust again. No more friends. If Bill double if Bill double crossed us I wouldn't know what to believe so I would just be a drift in the universe. Yeah I think the only person with the power to end the show is Bill Tilly with that kind of double cross

You and I couldn't be friends. No. Yeah, we would we would lose trust in each other. Wow Stakes are high Yeah, real high Bill. please don't ruin the show. And on that note, we'll be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek Deep Space 9, and an episode of the greatest generation Deep of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God of the youth, God Audience supported.