The Greatest Generation - Loaf is on the Pillow (DS9 S1E18)

Episode Date: February 12, 2018

When a man with a mysterious past beams onto DS9 to see a doctor, the only treatment he gets are accommodations in the brig. But when the crew begins to doubt the person’s true identity, Kira must come to grips with what she really wants out of their relationship. Which DS9 character would you FMK? What are the sexual ethics of the holosuites? Is there a best pre-murder meal to order from a take-out window? It’s the episode that has no lollipop b-story!

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Space Nine, a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast. I'm Ben Harrison.

I'm Adam Prenica. Adam my next door neighbor is a practicing guitar, I think, right now. So, I'm hoping that that's not making it into the recording. But if it is, I'm sorry that somebody's practicing guitar and very quietly in the background. No stairway. Denied! That's so weird, like, I guess when you're in California, you get to have an apartment beneath a tree on a college campus. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's the only place anyone practices a guitar in my experience. I think my next door neighbor is a professional musician and I believe she is known to our mutual

friend John Roderick. Oh no. Oh. If it gives you any idea of what Seattle is like culturally at the moment, moment, musicians from Seattle are moving to Los Angeles. Not something that many would have predicted 10 years ago, I think. Adam, do you have any interest in getting some of your frustration out via the method of going to war? It's basically the only way I can feel anything anymore. I would love to.

Get those cards out, buddy. All right, they're out. Where more? There's been no formal declaration of war. And this took your brand of some luck. That nonsense is centuries behind us. War! On the mark! Kind of. One! One more! One more! [♪ Music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background tweeting at us, sending us emails with questions about where all of our bits come

from. Yeah. More bits than show really is the sort of podcast we're doing. There is a greatest gen wiki out there with all of the bits taken apart in great detail and it's a it's like a resource that really blows me away because I look at it sometimes and I go like oh oh my god, what have we done? It really helps me understand my own show in a way that I wouldn't otherwise. Yeah, but Card War is a game that we play from time to time that the basic premise of which is we're using these Star Trek collectible card game cards and making our own Vegas-like gambling game out of it. And it's best of three or best of four depending on whatever we decide in the moment.

That's right. Our scoring system is purely subjective. We have a quick debate over which card is best and then we move on to the next. Are you ready, Ben, for the first card? I am ready. Three, two, one, flip. Ben, my card is a dilemma card. It is cosmic string fragment. A long space object is thin as a proton, but with the gravitational attraction of 100 stars.

Thin as a proton was my high school nickname You don't want to get called thin is a proton in gym class Yeah, you walked out of that locker room a different person. It's one of the reasons I didn't want to shower with the rest of the class It says that the bottom ship is sucked in and destroyed unless astrophysics or engineer or navigation aboard. I have no idea what card I flipped over here, man. It's upside down on both sides. What? It says exobiology plus strength, greater than 35, and that's facing both directions, so that I guess if you're sitting across the table from somebody they can read it also and then it says Gamma a Rigulon 2

Trace radiation anomaly is reported at this location I was flipping back through the cards that I've already opened for war looking for By directional cards and I found one it was repair mission I yours is a little more one, it was repair mission. I, yours is a little more inscrutable than this. Yeah. I would say that maybe if we don't understand it, it would lose to cosmic string fragments. I think cosmic string fragment is the thing that put Deanna Troy in charge of the ship,

so I think that's a win for you. How destructive is that? I'm inclined to agree. Wanna flip another one? Yeah, let's do it. Three, two, one. Minda is Tybock, a Romulan scientist who developed a mind control device using e-band emissions.

Controlled Lieutenant Commander Jordy LeForge through his visor. Tybock is weighing in with an integrity of two, a cunning of eight, and a strength of eight. He also has treachery, biology, and computer skill. What I have is Bachel. Klingon trained as an officer for the Klingon defense force, formerly in command of Narendra 3 outpost. Narendra 3 was the Outpost, famously, that the Enterprise C was defending, right? Ooh.

Before they went into the space-buddle. Yeah. But I don't remember Betrell being a part of that. No. Oh wait, was Betrell one of the peeps in that weird Romulan camp? Norendra 3 had survivors and then they went to go live on that camp that the Romulans took over and then Warf went there and taught them how to use garden tools, right? Was that all the same story?

I thought that those are survivors of Kiddamer, a different, treacherous Romulan attack. Save your fucking letters, guys. Alright. You know there's so many clings on Prisoners of War these days, man. Save your fucking letters, guys. Alright. You know there's so many Klingon prisoners of war these days, man. It's hard to keep them all straight. I think I like your card. Bottom line. Yeah, I'd say it's a one-to-one.

Yeah. It's anybody's game. Yeah. As we go to round three, Ben, three, two, one. My card is an event, and it's a big one. It's the Federation Klingon Treaty. This card plays on the table. Then your Federation and Klingon affiliations recognize this treaty. They can now mix and cooperate.

This is a very post-discovery card. Yeah, Taren Empire would hate this idea. Yeah, that'd be bad news bears for them. My card is a Romulan outpost. It's Romulus, one of the two home worlds for the Romulans. The Romulan Star Empire establishes outpost throughout its territory. It's always a chess game when the Romulans are involved in. I would say over the long term, an alliance between the Federation and the Klingons versus

the Romulans is often sort of a stalemate, wouldn't you say? I think that's a great way to look at it. And that's sort of making me want to flip over a fourth card. Let's go ahead and do that then. Okay, three, two, one, flip. I have an event. Espionage, Klingon on Federation. Klingon Espionage against the Federation

has included data stolen from Relay Station 47 by Morag. My card is one of those bi-directionals. It's fever emergency. Ben, do you think if the players using your card get the fever that they wouldn't be able to use that card for their espionage? Yeah, I think that there would be some compromising effects in this fever. Oh, could be tough. What do you say Adam? Do you got a case to make? Well, I mean, they seem like they're very different cards, very different problems.

Yeah, it's a bit of an apples to oranges issue. Do we need to flip one more? Let's keep going until we have a very clear winner, as would I say. Okay. Three, two, one. I think you might have me here, Ben. I have the lowly engineering kit representative of specialized engineering instruments. Such equipment has been developed by many races. It is equipment, Ben. Oh.

Can you be equipment? Mine is an interrupt card, and it's a shot of the entrepreneur flying into an asteroid in that episode where they developed the cloaking shield that they can also pass through solid matter. And it says, Asteroid Sanctuary, hoping to avoid detection by a Romulan Warbird, the USS Enterprise, entered a giant asteroid cavern in 2370. Was that the thing that Wesley Crusher broke on that one planet the asteroid sanctuary? Yeah they wanted to kill him over that. Yeah gotta be careful stomping around in the sanctuary. I think he got me there Ben. Anything of

the scale of a starship in an asteroid I think would take down the lowly engineering kit so. That crush is a kit. Yeah, I think he got me. Good game, Ben. Good game, Adam. Well, one episode that is most certainly not messing around with frivolous things is maybe the most serious of season one, Deep Space Nine episodes, it's episode 18, and it's called duet. Do you realize how many cannibal this is?

No, of course you don't. I mean, the Zepisode does start a little light, like it's, uh, Kira and Dax just like, they're kind of like, having a conversation that is happening like in the midst of them doing some work. The thing you talk about first is who would you fuck on the station and they already did that on a run about a couple episodes ago, right? Now they're getting into other matters. They played FMK in like episode three.

I feel like very often when I first meet a person, I go right for the edges of the envelope conversationally to figure out where I stand with someone. If we can play the game with the jokes and stuff. For OSUS, aren't I? And I think this is very good friendship making by Kira and Dax to begin with a mourn hammer conversation. And then maybe backfill those opinions with some of the lighter stuff that doesn't really matter as much. You want to know where someone stands on that. Fuck Mary Kill Quark.

Odo Morn. I feel like the Mary is often the easiest choice for many of these. And I think I'm probably gonna marry Morn because he's quiet. You know, like no matter what, he's gonna be like the ceiling on how annoying he is, is going to be fairly low. I'm gonna marry Morn. Also great lover, I don't think there's any question about that.

Dude has a rep. I think fuck, fuck has to be Odo, right? You're never gonna get a fuck like that. He's gonna fill you up. Ha ha ha. Or conversely, like, you're gonna wear him, like you've never worn anything before. Yeah. And I guess, uh, I guess by virtue of elimination, we're gonna kill Quark.

Sorry for him anymore. Peace out. Yeah. I feel like I might switch Morin and Quark with you. Yeah. I would fuck Odo, but I think I might marry Quark because I just feel like he's gonna, you know, he's greedy enough that he's gonna set me up in the long term. That's true. You're gonna have a real nice house.

You're gonna have a lot of fun to be had, a lot of fun and adventure. Yeah. You're gonna be very different from mourn who just wants to sit at home and drink. And of course, it's like not in the mood for it one night. There's like five holo sweets available at all times. Yeah, there's an element of escapism here.

Does holo sweet count as adultery? Or not if it's only consensual Halo Sweet? Right. Yeah, I suppose that's really the measure of the man episode that we never get in Deep Space 9 is like somebody like O'Brien accused of banging another woman, but the other woman was a hologram. The show goes so many places in terms of character's morality, but I can't remember it ever going there, which means that the matter must have been settled far before this show was ever made, right? The social contract of Hollow Sweet Bangs is understood by everyone, but I guess we don't

really get to see the consequences of that. Yeah, this primetime television show didn't get into the like, CD sexual ethics of, of deep phase nine as much as it could have. Yeah, but I mean, you, when you march cork around with like two dabbo babes showing like three-quarters under boob each, like it's, I think they could go there. They just didn't. Yeah. They would rather retell a viral infection story four times in a season than tread on any new ground I guess. Yeah. Well, maybe if Star Trek Discovery winds up being the anthology show that it was hinted to be early on, they'll hire us for a season two set in the 24th century and we

can write that episode. Well, I really hope so. I- It'd be nice. I'm hoping friend of the podcast Mary Weissman can make the proper introductions. But in the good word. Adam, they get hailed by a freighter and it's one of those guys that is related to Frankies. This is the coberian freighter rack munus requesting permission to duck. They've got like a fin on their head instead of giant ears. And he says they've got a sick puppy on board and they need to beam one of their passengers directly to Six Bay.

Got a disease called Kalinora and the only person on the entire station that has apparently heard of this disease is Kira, because it is extremely rare and only known to have been contracted by victims of an accident at like a forced labor camp that the Cardassians operated during the occupation. Survivors of Galatep have always been a symbol to us of strength and courage.

Nuna, visa tours, a reaction to this is pretty epic. Like they do a click around the horn, like, Kalonora, what is that? And sis goes like, hmm, that sounds interesting. And Kiris like, what the fuck? Ha ha ha. She's, she's initially like very concerned for this person because she assumes it's going to be one of the

bejorans who was essentially enslaved there and she she was part of liberating the camp so she has really strong emotional connection to this event. This is a part of her character that they sort of tease like she was on the forces that cleaned up the mess after the war. But in this episode, you really get a lot of detail into what exactly her job was and what exactly she saw and what her damage is because of it. Yeah. My emotional connection to Kalinora is that the two popular girls at my high school were

Kayla and Nora. My only association with Calinora was that I had to, you ever get chicken pox bin? You have to put that Calinora lotion on your pox. So you would get a jar? I got poison oak one time and I think that's what I used. Yeah, I think I got a car. I got poison oak one time and I think that's what I used. Yeah, pink stuff. Yeah, don't confuse it with pep dope ismol. That's Kalonora.

Well, Cara goes down to six bay and Bashir, like they do the reveal where Bashir is like is like wrenching on somebody's head and then he steps away and it is not a Bajoran but a Cardassian. Cure to Odo. Go ahead. I'm Indian firmer, I need security here on the double.

I'm on my way, Major. This is a pretty bad moment for Cure. Yeah. To queue a show up for dinner, expecting a hamburger, and it's like steamed vegetables. Disappointing, you know. You got your switch flip for one thing, and it's something else entirely.

The reveal also revealed something else to me, Ben, is that it's Harris Eulin. Yeah. One of the great that guys in TV and film, you might know him, Ben, as the guy who plays national security advisor, Cutter, from Clear and Present Danger. Cutter couldn't hide shoes without permission.

Yeah. He's also the judge and ghost busters too in that opening scene. Yeah, he's been in a million things. He is great. He's like one of those gravitas guys. Yeah, he was on in a million things. He is great. He's like one of those gravitas guys. Yeah, he was on 24 for that reason. For all of the like white powerful man gravitas that he has.

You know how my voice is real like thin and greedy, like an oboe? You've noticed that, right? I've suffered through 190 something episodes of that, that. God, I just wish more than anything that as I age, I get some Harris-Julin voice. Get down into that Harris-Julin register. Yeah. God. I like, what is it going to take? Is it going to take like me screaming into a pillow for like years at a time to like, fracture my vocal cords. It's just back and forth from like big fat pull on cigar to exhaling by screaming into pillow and back. Gotta get the Cubans at him.

I know. Gotta get the Cubans at that. They will change your voice over time. Yeah. It's all that nicotine going in there and killing cells in your vocal cords. The one thing you want to do is inhale cigar smoke. Procigar smokers will tell you.

Kira turns to Dr. Bashir and she's like, hey, guess what, buddy? Your patient is a war criminal. And this Cartesian does maybe the lamest escape attempt in TV history. Like if you ever get me on a gym basketball court, like this is the sort of head fake that this Cartesian does. Very, and then he sort of loses the basketball down the promenade and chases after it.

He doesn't even knock over a pitcher or a table or anything to cause a distraction. You got to flip over a table so that the guys have to jump over it behind you. If this was a performance choice that Harris Eulan made, then he's gone down several notches in my book. You're never going to make the in-memorium reel at the Oscars with this sort of performance Harris. Get it together. Yeah, see.

The slow, lethargic jog where you don't even look out the door that you're busting out of to see if there are four security guys coming your way. He's like the reverse peppy-lip-you. Like, he's out front front but he's slow. Odo is quite happy to take Kira's initial order to toss this guy in the brig and she tells the doctor to like continue treating him in there and just you know like this is an arrest without cause at this point as far as everybody knows but But apparently that's okay here on Space Station, Deep Space Nine. A lot of this season has been about, like a lot of cold opens even, have been about Kirin Arese's feelings about things. And then it's up to the crew to sort of either help her out to those ends or to fight her on it.

And fairly early on, Cisco is of the innocent until proven guilty variety of person, carrying the water for the federation. And Kira is like, so sure that this guy is a war criminal because he's got that Galatep cough, that is the sign of war criminals who have worked at this forced labor camp that she liberated. The galatep cough has been unfairly maligned. It is the only way to stay thin and

sexy in your old age. I have the galatep cough myself and yet I still smoke the cigarettes. How could I be smoking like this if the I have the gallotapcov myself and yet I still smoke the cigarettes! How could I be smoking like this if the gallotapcov is so bad, Major Gira? Sir, you can't smoke in a movie theater. Get your hands off of me! What is wrong with you? I'm a smokeoker ever I want is it not a free country? I really like the scene where Kira and Sisko are in Otos office like discussing

Why she had this guy locked up? I'm charging him with having contracted Kalanora partly because it because it is like, it really firmly establishes where the lines of tension are going to be in this episode. Do you want to explain that to me? But partly because I feel like this is establishing some new stuff about this space. Or maybe I just never noticed it. But they're close enough to the walls in Otos office that you can see that some of the screens have like,

galaxies most wanted posters on them. Right. Yeah. I really wanted the camera to rack so that I could get an in focus shot of some of those because they look hilarious and I would love to see what those were. Yeah. If only you had HD transfer we could punch in a little bit.

Yeah. You know when you're in the art department and you've got some fine text to put in soft focus in the background of a shot, you can have a lot of fun with that. And like there were definitely a couple of times in TNG where we could like pause a computer screen that was supposed to just whizz by and see what they had written on it. And it was always fun. Yeah, there's always an Easter egg buried in there somewhere. Yeah.

You're right about the tension visited upon Cisco because he is getting pulled in a lot of different directions. There's Kira's motivation toward prosecuting a crime that she sees that's been personified by Harris-Juleen's character, Cardassian character. And then there's also the tension like he's being forced to play the middle between the Bajoran government who obviously wants to prosecute and punish a war criminal. There's also the Cardassians who want this guy back. There's also the Irish who want his first name and the Italians who want his last name.

Sisco is pretty cool headed about this. He sort of wants to put Odo on the case because Kira's too close. Yeah, and I think that that's the way that Cisco is trying to play this, trying to just be dispassionate about it. Yeah. Trying to hear everybody out like the Bajoran,

you know, minister of state or something, calls him up and is like, it's pretty adamant that if this guy has this disease then he was at the camp and therefore is a bad dude and the, you know, we get some some fun like back and forth facetimes with Gilducat in this episode where, you know, he's he's saying this is, you know, you can't just arrest somebody because they're Cardassian and have a sickness. Like, you don't have anything to accuse this guy of, so why don't you let him go?

All Cardassians look like they have really long necks, but DuCott looks like he just has a fucking giraffe neck. He really does. Guys got an amazing neck. Real merton hanks of Cardassia. Hahaha. I also appreciated that wherever Gold DuC Hot is is clearly art directed, even though it's like always on a small screen and not in focus.

It's not the flat wall with like one logo on it that we would get for Romulan Bridge so often in TNG. There's like color and depth in this shot. It's cool. It took a really long time for TNG to get here, but it is noticeable right now in season one, just how few people Cisco has to talk to about either personal or mission problems. I feel like if this were a third season TNG episode, the McLaughlin group would break up, people would leave, and then Ryker and Picard would discuss, you know, what a sticky

wicket this one's gonna be, you know, before going on with the rest of the episode. You really only have Cisco's words in a professional conversation to Glean, where he's at here. And furthermore, I think that the kind of political arrangement of Starfleet administering Deep Space Nine has been left vague enough that it's not really clear what the rules are. Yeah.

He's being told by the the bejorid and government guy, hey, you got to, you got to keep this guy. We're going to put a work crimes tribunal together. And he is saying, you know, we have a different approach to justice in the Federation, and that's where my loyalty is lie. Is it, or I just don't understand how much this is a starfleet thing, and how much it's a bejure and thing. Where does the buck stop? What's the ultimate authority on this issue? It's like anything else. When a clear hierarchy has not been Established, it breeds all sorts of conflict and

This happens over and over again on this show in the first season especially I mean, I think that this episode could have been used to flesh some of that out and have some very specific choices made, and I feel like it stays squishy and ill-defined. Right. So this guy says his name is Aiman Moritza, and through the interrogation that Kira gives him in the brig, he cops to the idea that he's a file clerk. He's not the bad guy that people are making him out to be. There's no way that he could have been in charge of a prison camp and killed all those people.

It was just following orders. He got the wrong guy. It wasn't me. It was the one armed man. You know, he has this real, like, you know, acts like this is persecution and it's not really fair that they've locked them up. Persecuting Kardashians goes far beyond your job, major to passion. Every time somebody comes down, he wants to be... he wants to be released. He feels like he has a right to do what he is doing, which is just traveling through and he even expresses some admiration for

Goldar Heal the Cardassian that ran the camp that he worked at. Sure. I guess Goldar Heal went to college in North Carolina. I get it. This must have been before the war. This is such a Kira episode, Adam. There's almost no quirk, almost no o'Brien. It is like Kira doing some stuff and Odo and Sisko and to a very greater lesser extent decks interacting with

it. It's a bottle episode, but there's also no B or C story. It is all A, which I thought made it kind of an outlier for what we've seen really in the entire series, like all the Star Trek series that we've watched. There's usually a subplot, but there is none here. There's none, and it's, especially in this season, it has been, it has felt sometimes like, oh, there is a sea storyline

because the A and B are too weak to support themselves under their own structure. So let's like get Jake and Nog stealing popsicles as a thing also. Sure. Throughout the episode, Maritza has the charisma of an evil man. A man who has sort of made peace with his circumstances. There's something about the charisma of evil and how it's portrayed here that I found was like really fascinating.

Yeah, he monologues like an arch villain. We're professional bad guys, ding! Hello! Yes, please, be little me in front of my hands, man. In a fucked up way, it takes charisma to do bad things. Yeah, I think so. And to get people to follow you into those bad things. It's kind of the opposite of the banality of evil.

Like, it's the part that convinces people to follow as we start a project that is terrible. Right. Right. I mean, this guy, for all they can tell is telling the truth. He's a phylocler, but Kira really doesn't, with his a phylocler, but Kira really doesn't, like her gut is telling her, and his disposition is telling her that he's something much worse than that. And she confesses at some point, I think to DAX that she wants him to be worse than that.

She wants him to be like the embodiment of Cardassian impropriety, so that she can personally punish him. You know, if Kyra and Cisco are supposed to be equals on the station representing their sides, in this episode at least, Kyra is given friends and foils to converse with about her situation, Dax being one of them, Dax really gives her some good counseling about like, and more or less does the same thing with her when he gives her the blue raspberry lemonade coolade of discovering your prisoner has done genocide.

Perhaps you should avoid discussing your personal history with a creature like that. I didn't. There's real counseling by Kira's closest here and these are really short, small, And these are really short, small, dialogue-efficient scenes, but they really do a lot to underscore how tight she's become with people on the station, and they're not just people on her team, like Dax's True Blue Federation, and they talk about dick stuff together, so they're super tight. It's some point on FaceTime to cut and Cisco agree to like do a little information sharing because you know he's saying like you know I it's a little bit out of my hands you know we'll release this guy if he proves to not be a work criminal, but that investigation is incomplete.

And one way you could help us complete this investigation quicker is if you give us some of the Cardiacian records, like give us some limited access to the computer and we'll take a look. And this leads to Blade Runner photo computer scene where they've got a shot of some stuff going down at Galatep, like in the mine. And it's Pajoran laborers and Cardassian soldiers.

And they zoom in on the Cardassian that is labeled in the photo as being Aiman Maritza, and it's a different dude. Parentheses are in the subtitle to the photo. Because he's a Republican. No, I mean like when they're photo attributions and like, Oh, because he's on the right hand side of the shot. Yeah.

That's how I met that. Yeah. And like how I met that. Yeah. And like blade runner there. But also if you're gonna run a prison camp, you're probably a Republican. Yeah, they're bet. Like blade runner, they have the ability

in this photo program to fly the camera around in three dimensional space. And hence. And hence. And hence. And hence. Just print a damn thing. They swing the camera around and get a look at the face of the Cardassian who's labeled as Guldar Hill, and it's a dead ringer for the guy they have down in the brig.

And in this moment, I feel like Kira is getting exactly what she wants. Like the guy that they arrested as Marita is the worst possible cardassian. It's a real thinkl as Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkl moment to Kira. Remember that at the end? She's my sister and my daughter. Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. And this like to whatever degree Kira has a short fuse about this guy, this basically cuts it off completely. She is an explosive with no fuse and she's ready to go off. Yeah, it's such a weird, complicated emotion, right?

It's just what you wanted. This guy really did, was responsible for tons of mass murder and stuff. I think at this point also, when it's a has like made the case that maybe Goldar Hill wasn't a mass murder, like there was this accident with this disease, but he's saying like the reputation

of being a mass murderer, the fear that arises from that is just as good, whether or not it happened, and it's saying that Golder Hill cultivated that reputation well actually just being like a really effective leader. Yeah, like the case he makes is that it wasn't genocide, it was just good marketing, which is really fucking dark. Yeah, and a pretty complicated idea that I feel like they kind of forget to dig into.

Right. Toward the end, spoiler alert, it turns out not to be Darhil, but like if he had turned out to be Dar-Hel, but also hadn't done all of the murdering that he had marketed himself as having done, doesn't that make him like not a war criminal? It gets it gets to like the nature of fear, right?

Nature of fear during wartime, especially. And psychological operations that you play against your enemy. Yeah. And he really takes the position that there wasn't even a war. It was an occupation and that there was no war. No glory, but you're didn't resist. It surrendered. But the cardacions left because it was politically

unsustainable, not because they were wrong to have done it in the first place or because they lost for any reason. What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now?

What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? He changes his level of confidence. Like as soon as he's found out, he makes the claim to Kira that... I yearned to tell you, but I knew how much more satisfaction you would have if you found out for yourself. And that was my only deception.

Now we can get to you trying me for my crimes and executing me. Like, wouldn't that be great for you? Like he's really relishing what this is doing to Kira. He's gone full big Leb this is doing to Kira. He's gone full big Lebowski, the Bums lost. Yeah. Yeah. And he's saying, my accomplishments speak for themselves. I am great at what I do, and I was great at what I did.

And you're a nobody to me. But it kind of, in that moment, in watching this and not knowing what was to come, I was wondering like, why the fuck would he have been on some dumpy freighter like coming through the station? Like why route your travel via deep space nine if this is who you are, you know? That's the reason why you can't really give yourself over to any sort of satisfaction at this point in the story. Yeah, it doesn't quite add up.

Yeah. As much of a heel he is, like he's so fun to hate in this moment. I think Odo says that almost verbatim. Something doesn't add up about this. Hahaha. Do you think Odo could turn himself into an abacus? An abacus with googly eyes?

Hahaha. Allow me to demonstrate. He could be data levels of annoying. Like he just turns his mouth into a pipe mouth, grows the Sherlock Holmes hat. It's a good thing he doesn't have any outside interests because he would really wave those in people's faces. The humanoid obsession with hobbies is something I'll never understand.

She talks to Odo and he's like, well, this guy is misleading us on a bunch of counts. And one of those is I just talked to your boy, Gildu Katt. And Gildu Kott claims to have been to Gildar Hils Funeral. He was like one of the great gals and everybody in Kardashian was mourning his death a few years ago. The surprising amount of honor for a guy that is kind of like the sergeant shelts of this universe. Yeah, I guess there are no open casket funerals on Cardassia, huh? Like, have you ever heard of anybody that ran a prison camp?

Of course, I think everyone has a friend who's run a prison camp. Oh sure, yeah, and if they died, it would be a really sad day. a really sad day. But yeah, and then Odo looks into this guy's travel plans, and it turns out he went way out of his way to stop at Deep Space 9. I don't know why yet, but the man in that cell wanted to be caught. And that sort of breaks the story, you know? Like, it's a disappointment to Kira. She's forced to confront the idea that this is not Goldar Hill. Like, Goldar Hill was on Cardassia,

getting his ass kissed by the Prime Minister or something when the accident happened. He couldn't have ever contracted this disease. He is not the bad guy that she was hoping and enjoying him to be. It's like anything else, like to be given a thing that you've wanted and then to have it taken away is so much more painful than to not get the thing at all. And Kira here was given the ultimate vengeance gift and to see that be untrue is very painful for her. I can't believe on this me to this.

When I was a kid, I got a Sega Genesis for my birthday one year. And it was like a big deal because I had wanted a video game system for ever. And I'd begged my parents for years and years. And they were really anti-getting me a video game system. I was so happy that I got this thing that I took it over to a friend's house

and somehow was like getting picked up at the bus stop or something and left it in a bag on the ground. Oh no. And like, and like this thing that I just like built up wanting for my entire childhood and I'm And like, and like, this thing that I just like built up, wanting for my entire childhood, and I'm finally like, I'm like nine years old, and I finally have it. I finally have my own video game system, and it's fucking gone, and it's my fault.

God, that had to be painful. So you never got it back, it was lost, that was it. It was gone, man. Gone, baby, gone. We like drove around Berkeley for an hour trying to see if we saw anybody with a bag that looked like the one that I'd lost, but no dice. Did you ever get another? Yeah, I think like six months later, I saved up enough money to buy a used I used console. But at that time, video games had moved on

to PlayStation 3. Right. I'm sorry, sir. We didn't know I would carry the Sega Genesis. Perhaps I could interest you in a computer processor video game system. Yeah. It really hurt, and I could really feel the hurt in Kira, because while it makes this guy

way less bad, it's not what she wanted him to be. And so she heads back down to the Brig one last time, and she says, I know for a fact that you're not guldar hill. And why are you like, like you've been, you've been sitting here representing yourself to be this horrible man. And now after I look at all the evidence, I can see definitively that you're not.

This starts a monologue by Harris Eulin that is, I think, one of the high points in the season. Yeah. It's really a story about the guilt of complicity. This guy did not kill people. This guy didn't really even admit to seeing many people killed. But what he was was there, and he could hear it, and he knew what was going on, and he didn't do anything about it.

And he's lived with this horrible guilt and she like, she winds up kind of pitting him for that. Despite his complicity and a really horrible thing that he's felt guilty about for years, the horror of having lived through that and not being strong enough to try to do something to counteract it is something that she really pitties in him and she just like it's a certain point just reaches up and like taps the button that dissipates the the force field and let's him out

His intention is noble. It does not forgive what he did, but the idea that he wants to be the figure that stands trial as a way for a cardacio to finally be punished for the atrocities is noble and good. It doesn't forgive his complicity, but I think he makes the case for it in this way that like there's no undoing what happened, but what you can undo is the ignorance of what happened. Right. Oh yeah, and one thing we didn't talk about is like that he had plastic surgery to look like Goldarheal. Yeah.

Yeah, this is one of the things that breaks the case is that they found out that he bought a large amount of drugs. Drugs that are used by people who have a lot of plastic surgery so that the loaf will take. Right. It's a... You don't want to get that loaf projection, Ben. All purpose flour is what he was on. Yeah. You don't want to wake up and your loaf was on the pillow. Yeah, you don't want to wake up and your loaf is on the pillow. Oh, that would be bad. Yeah, I think his goal was like, go be Goldarheal for all intents and purposes and stand trial for the crimes of Goldarheal. Like submit himself to the punishment that Darheal deserved and let Cardassia see what that means. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he hadn't been discovered

and had been put to trial. Yeah. The button on the episode is Kira is like walking him down the hallway and I guess he's gonna go go to Beijor because they're like he's pretty much cut himself off from all Cardassian life at this point. Yeah, once you square up with your with your maid there's no going home. Yeah for that. Yeah. Like one of the notes about him is that he really tipped his housekeeper before he left. Yeah. He's definitely not ready to go home. Left more than a $20 bill on the dresser before he left.

There's this local drunk that has been in the holding sales a couple of times who's standing at a Quirk's bar. At the quirk's bar has that window that you can sidle up to that just is out on the promenade itself. Yeah, it's giving you drinks and plastic cups at the window. This is like, there needs to be more of this, man.

There is a coffee shop that has a little pastry selection, that has a window on sunset bullet-forward near my house and I walk up to it and get my morning coffee and croissant and I can take my dog there on a leash and it's like the it's the greatest. Yeah you want a window. That should be that should be standard in restaurants. Have a window. Let me get a let me get a styrofoam cup full of margarita. That's what I'm saying. This dude, I guess he, he like ordered a pork chop and the wait staff at Quirk's bar had come out and put the steak knife down.

And it turns around. It looks forced at the end though, right? I thought it was a cheese knife. Oh, maybe, yeah, maybe he ordered the cheese plate. He's finished his meal. Oh, maybe, yeah, maybe he ordered the cheese plate. He's finished his meal. And uh, what kind of an asshole do you have to be to get the cheese plate at the window? Like that suspect behavior automatically. There should have been googly eyes on that cheese knife. I'm keeping my eye on you. He turns around and sinks this knife into Maritza. Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! You see, oh! You see, oh! And Maritza goes down and is bleeding out on the promenade and Kira is like, Why? He wasn't dark here!

Why? And he says, he's like like a descend That's reason enough And Her response is It's not It is not enough, it is not Oh, hi Mark It's not enough Rambo

You get the single brass instrument of grief here in the God shot. And sort of a lot of people, we haven't been keeping track this season, but I think Kira is the leader in the clubhouse of people dying in her arms. You know? Yeah. Great big body count for Kira, not of people that she's killed, but of people that she's witness being killed or dying. Right, yeah. She's giving this guy the full kaiopaka grief treatment.

Ben, who is season one about? Because if it hasn't been settled before, I think it's settled now, this season one of Deep Space Nine is about Major Kira and like her place on the station, the station's place in the quadrant and like what it means to be in a post-Cardassian war universe. It's very interesting because I think that in TNG, we are the federation,

like our proxy and especially in the early episodes, is Wesley. Wesley, the boy. The boy. Young, Wesley, Crusher. My son. And the Federation is where we live. And in deep design, I kind of think that they've flipped that around. Bay George is where we live, and Kira is our proxy.

Right. And the Federation is this kind of likable group of people, but who are new here. That's a really interesting point, and that Wesley comparison especially, it's a big part of Star Trek is choosing who your proxy is, and sometimes the proxies foisted upon you by the show. But the cast of this show is so democratic, like there are so many characters and and few of them really step out to to lead the rest. That it's hard to argue against Kira being that person. The proxy for the viewer. Did you like the episode? It's hard to choose an episode that's stronger than this one. I mean, it is sober, serious, adult star trek happening here.

Yeah. This is sort of the best of what star trek does is tell this kind of story. And it was well acted. And I'm glad there wasn't a Lollipot B story because I don't want that in something mysterious. This was really good, I thought. Yeah, I agree. I think it's a pretty terrific episode.

You want to see if we have any really terrific p-want? I would love to. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. I need a supplement on this one. supplement on pop? supplement on top? supplement. supplement. Yes, extra.

How do you interest alone? Could be enough to buy this ship. Adam, our first priority one message is of a commercial nature. And it goes like this. No one can know about this. A podcast where we play every final fantasy. Send help.

Hahaha. But you are never going to run out of material if that is your podcast. Yeah. Game right there. Seriously. And in case there was any confusion, no one can know about this is the name of the podcast. It looks like a- Whoa, what a great name.

Yeah, I love that. That really, I feel like that dovetails nicely with our feeling of slight embarrassment over what we're doing here. Yeah, that's a good brand. That's a successful brand, Ben. Yeah, I've clicked over to this and it's described as a podcast where we play every final

fantasy using recordings from actual play sessions mixed with commentary from our future selves. Starting with a six episode season one, chronicling a descent into madness while playing the first game. Those two play Jeff Ackman and Ryan Kes-Miski. That they're playing one of the first versions on a Sega Genesis, Ben. Yeah. Oh, it's triggering to me, but I'm sure everybody else will enjoy it.

That's great. That sounds like a lot of fun. Do they have any others, Adam? Yeah, we've got a personal message here from Shavan, just for Matt. And this message has been requested in the Angry Frenchman voice. Known to us as Vichy French guy. Happy birthday, Fibreux husband! Here's hoping we are not so far behind in this podcast that it takes us months to get

this message. Also, pur your suggestion? Fuckass! Fuck it all! I really prefer your VC, your VC French guy to mine than, but I gave it my best. I really like yours because it's like,

it's like through the lens of a thing I described to you. It would be like if you were doing your best Rodney Danger field, but you'd never actually seen Rodney Danger field perform. Yeah. You just knew he was like a guy with a long island accent who gets no respect. You're a consumer of a ton of French culture in the way that I'm not.

So, I also feel like you're just better equipped to do an accurate interpretation of Vichy French guy, whereas I'm just doing an oppression of you doing Vichy French guy. And it's like making a copy of a copy. Like, mine is very blurry. Generational decay is a factor. Yeah.

If you're interested in having us read a message about your video game podcast or any other message of a commercial or personal nature, you can go to maximumfund.org slash jambotron where personal messages are $100 in commercial messages. $200, they are one of the best ways to help the ongoing production of this program. They are. Hey Adam!

What's that been? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? Drunk Shimoda! It's one of those episodes been where my Shemota was left blank. Maybe I might like to hear yours first, and that might serve to inspire me to select one. Cause I really struggled with this. I struggled as well Adam.

My Shemota is a background Shemota. There's a, the last scene in the episode where they're walking Maritza down the promenade. We see in soft focus in the background at that window at Corksbar, the guy that will stab him. But that guy is there drinking with a buddy who very, very much in a notice that I am not part of this way, takes a big drink from his glass of blue liquid while the stabbing is going down. Like, he never really knows this dude has a knife and is standing there waiting to do some dirt,

but it's like not part of this. Glug, glug, glug, glug, yummy blue liquid. And then, that guy is also in the god shot at the end, like, like standing over Merit's body as the crowd forms. Like, whoa, what just happened? Nothing I'm aware of. I feel like a drink makes a great alibi in that moment because if you're involved, who could possibly consume a beverage at that moment? Right. Nice job by him. Yeah, yeah, he really spared himself any uncomfortable questions and he still has the drink in his hand when he walks over to take a look at Meritz's body. So what's going on over here?

Seems like a kind of a big mess. Shame. Anyway, can I get it? Anyone anything? I'm going to go back to the bar. My tabs still open, guys, if I hit it pretty big at Dabo earlier. So they're letting me have them for free. That's a pretty great Shimoda band. Like a craps player putting his chips on top of someone else's, I think I'll just go with yours. That's my own.

Double Shimoda band. Yeah. I got that, that cool press like, I got that, that cool press like, I got that cool press like, I got that cool press like, I got that, I got that cool press like, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that cool press like, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that, I pre and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info.

That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris and I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We got stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweirds. Pat Naswald.

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Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Oh, rice. Hey, baby. Oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line. And boy, what do I?

These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks. But I'm hearing we need to get on this hard. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans,

but we're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats.

We came two by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on the boat. We came two by two. What do you think? Ona Ross and episode? The next episode is the last episode of season one, episode 19, in the hands of the prophets, when a Bajoran spiritual leader objects to Kiko's secular teachings, she threatens to destroy the alliance between Bajor and the Federation. Do you want to find out if we're going to be doing some drinking? I may be on this person's side just because I object? Hardly. Looks like we are not gonna be drinking at him.

All right, well, this is the last episode that we're doing before we switch to a board game-like format. Yeah, I'm really excited about this. I feel like we're gonna switch to a board game-like format. We're gonna need to have a way for people to check on what the current status of the board is. I mean to that. I think I'm I think it's going to be cool. Yeah, me too. Looking forward to having it. So many people accuse us of fraudulent game playing W slash R slash T the vetoes of greatest Jen and how we've gone with the drunk format of season one DS9.

In the interest of total transparency, we're going to share everything. Yeah, we're going to put our cards on the table. We do take some shit from time to time. Yeah. Fraudulent gameplay has only ever been an accusation that's fallen on deaf ears because it's just not a thing. My conscience is clean, man. But if you want to accuse us of being liberal cucks or of being insufficiently liberal, we're wide open for that, so let us know. Well, it's so many ways been to support the show. Yeah, one of the easiest and freest ways is by leaving the show a great review. We, a long time ago, sort of gamified the review system in order to heighten the visibility of the greatest generation as a podcast. That's really one of the best ways to get us more viewers, and that's an important way to keep the show going.

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We should thank Adam Ragusia, who's made a ton of great original music for the show. Almost all of the music at this point is Adam Ragusia's work. And Dark Materia, who made the original Picard song, that is the kind of book end at this point. And with that, we'll be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek Deep Space 9. And an episode of the greatest generation Trek Deep Space 9 and an episode of the greatest generation Deep Space 9. That's willing to resort to terrorism. Maximumfund.org Make it sound. Make it sound. Make it sound. Make it sound. Maximumfund.org.

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