The Greatest Generation - No Stranger to Terrible Implants (S6E11)

Episode Date: May 15, 2017

When Captain Jellico relieves Commander Riker of duty, his mission becomes finding the next best hot shot shuttlecraft pilot. (Unfortunately, that's not Geordi.) Meanwhile, Captain Picard is subjected to a form of torture that many would find WAY over the line. How many channels does Gul Madred get on that remote control? What would it take before Riker considered mutiny? How much bun is safe to show on TV? It's the episode that leaves the show a bit better than we found it.

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the greatest generation. A Star Trek podcast by two guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast I'm your host, Adam Pranaka.

Then what does that make me? I'm Ben Harrison. My tag team partner in this podcast Legion of Doom. You get him dazed by the ropes and I hit him with a folding chair. Well, one of us needs to decide which one of us is outside of the ring, like stretching their arm in to get tagged while the other guy is inside the ring just getting jobbed by a bunch of folding chairs. I feel like the the rules of getting tagged in so often just go out the window in those things.

Yeah, did you ever watch wrestling like growing up or anything? Was that your thing or now? It was never like totally my thing, but there was a period in high school where I made a point of keeping abreast of it because a lot of the kids at school had thoughts. So just to know what was being discussed at the lunch table. How do you do fellow kids? There was like triple H and degeneration X.

Oh yeah. And things happening. X-Pock. X-Pock, yeah. Remember that guy? You got your X- Oh yeah. And things happening. X-Pock? X-Pock, yeah. Remember that guy? You got your X-Pock. You got your China. You got your Triple H. Yeah, I just remember being, you know, like I've never been that strong in any of my personal

convictions, but just feeling like these are people I wouldn't want in my house, so why am I turning on the television when they have it on? Ben Harrison, not strong enough for keyfabe. I didn't even like Steve Austin at him. Oh boy, so you must really have some feelings about all the wrestling drops I sprinkle throughout our show. Well, mostly they just go over my head. Ben, it's one of the earliest pods I can remember recording. It is, it's 8 30 AM my time. Comedy o'clock.

Yeah. I'm feeling pretty mentally challenged right now to bring, to bring the funniest. So I thought instead I'd totally cop out and go do a letter. What do you think? Letters. We get letters.

We get lots and lots of letters. Captain, I'm sorry to disturb you. I'm receiving a code 47. Verify? It is code 47, sir. Stockly emergency frequency. Captions eyes only. Slider comes. Oh, this is a paper one. Stockly emergency frequency. Captions eyes only. Slider comes.

Oh this is a paper one. Oh yeah. Print out an email at it or... No this uh this came inside of one of those cardboard postal service envelopes. Let on papier! Sure. It came inside a Queso. Ha ha ha ha. A A banjo chocolat?

Letters from our friend Alfred goes like this. Adam and Ben, I discovered your podcast last September while I was listening to another Maximum Fun Podcast, and I was intrigued. But I also said no Alfred, you already listened to too many podcasts, but over a few weeks the dulcet tones of dark materials music warmed its way into my brain, and in instant I was hooked, listening to you guys crack wise about TNG made me laugh out loud while walking my dog and while it worked, and it reminded me how much I love Star Trek in October things took a turn.

After being together for 10 years, and married for four of them, my wife left me. After a frantic move and starting a new life on my own, I sank into a deep depression and started to go to some very dark and scary places. Through it all, the only thing that could break through my depression and sadness was you guys, and your insinuations of a sinister relationship between Picard and Wesley, Polazki's alcoholism, Riker's sexual prowess, and of course, Uxbridge's thriving real doll business. Anyway, thank you both. Without knowing it, you really helped me get through some dark times.

Without you guys making me laugh with your dick and fart jokes, I might not be here today. If you're ever... Oh man. Yeah, thanks for all the laughs, and keep up the great work, sincerely Alfred. Occasionally Ben and I will complain about the struggle to keep up with our pace of programming, but man, stuff like this makes it all worth it. To know that the show is reaching some people who need it, I think, makes a big, big deal to you and me, Ben. So, thanks so much, Alfred.

And we're really glad you're still here with us. I mean, I think that, um, that's no joke. And if you're somebody that's out there listening that has that struggle, please, please get help. We can do our part in giving you something to laugh about, but also medicine works and talk therapy works, and there's no shame in it at all. Yeah, we need you guys. Yeah, yeah, don't go anywhere. Well, on that note, Adam, do you wanna get into

the funnest episode of Star Trek ever? Yeah, boy. This is a real wingedinger, isn't it? Whatever that is, it's a season 6 episode 11 chain of command, part 2. If you don't remember, this is part two of an episode featuring the Federation's greatest Cardassian diplomat. Now in command of the entrepreneur, Ben, I just don't understand how this guy got the rep that he did. Captain Jellico, not created his job. Jellico spends most of the first episodes of this episode

getting his pants pulled down by his Kardashian counterpart. But before we get to that, we have a cold open that is a scene where they've got the camera on like a crazy wide lens handheld. And the Kardashians are administering doses of sodium pentathol to Captain John Luke Picard. And he's letting details slip. Okay, I'll talk.

He's not just saying his federation ID, badge number, and his first and last name, as I think most POWs are trained to do. He's actually giving his mother's maiden name, his last four of his sores. And for a great age, don't my alcohol back to two pan. I glue it off my face when I played Moses and my papers go play. He's kind of spilling. Yeah, that's all you need to get into somebody's

online banking, right? It's a little concerning. And he also gives up the names of the other people on his team, which comes back to bite him in the ass later in the episode. Yeah, that's not a good look. This is a terrifying scene. The Cardassians can can play him for truth. Hit puree!

There's the tension and terror of knowing that Picard is very far from home and basically in a hole where he cannot be found. And then there's the like compounding part of that, which is knowing that the captain of the Enterprise right now does not really express any compunction about not trying to get him, you know? He is a commanding officer that is entirely willing to have casualties. He is a warf's kind of guy. And if Picard is lost to save the Federation,

Jelico doesn't give a flying fuck, basically. And that's the thing that really works this episode, I think, it would be one thing if it's like, you know, point counterpoint, point, Picard's in trouble, counterpoint, they're trying to rescue him. But you don't get that for a lot of this episode. Like it really seems like he's lost and no one's even trying.

The opening enterprise scene is kind of the continuation of the negotiations that they were having in the last episode. And they kind of, they're kind of like picking up five minutes before we left off with this. It's like, you know, I think that we can stop this war as long as everybody stops rattling their sabers and Golo Mech is like, then how do you explain the fact that a federation team launched an unprovoked assault on Cardassian territory less than 14 hours ago? And they're like, buh! This girl is right! This girl is right the whole time!

Like, Jelekko has never been right! I don't know what you're talking about! And the contrast couldn't be greater. I mean, we've lost a season diplomat, an intellectual, a guy known for making smart, reasonable decisions, and we've replaced him with a guy that's all bluster, who's kind of an idiot. Yeah, it's a familiar feeling at him. It sure is. The other thing I loved about this scene, I mean, like, because that as a viewer, you feel very helpless. You are watching the, like, you know,

there was the peaceful transition of power and now people who are unqualified and unprepared to do the job are, you know, learning on the fly. Yeah. But they still look like the Federation, you know, it on the fly. Yeah. But they still look like the federation, you know. It's, it's, Jellico sitting there with Riker and Troy and we, you know, cut across to the other side of the table

on these Cardassians are in these like Batman costumes and the lighting on that side of the table is very toppy. Yeah. Like the federation people have nice, diffuse light on their faces. You can see their whole faces. And they have, the Kardashians have this loaf that makes them kind of, they have large brows.

And so when you light them like this, they really have skull faces and they're extra terrifying looking. And I don't think that they've really done this lighting on them so far. So it's really startling when you see them. Yeah, I noticed this part as well. Those skull eye holes, they look like they represent death,

visually. And the cardacians are right, but they are also acting in bad faith. They are saying things like, you know, Picard attacked this settlement. And killed over 55 men, women, and children. This is all part of a Cardassian plot to sort of extract information that they think Picard has and take over a federation system, right? Yeah. And his leverage that he's trying to use is like, look, if you just admit that

cards mission was sanctioned by the federation, then of course, like the wartime protections for prisoners of war would be extended to him. That's all you have to do. Yeah. He's basically challenging them to fly in the face of their mission impossible briefing tape that said, you know, if you get captured or killed, the secretary will deny any knowledge of your actions. Yeah, and Jelico just lets the tape self-destruct. He's unwilling to admit that at this point. What evidence do you have of that? Jellico is definitely in a corner at this point, because that leverage would work. And if it came out publicly that the Federation had done this covert assault, they would

look really bad, you know, like they would look like the counter to the moral example they're trying to set. So that happens and the Cardassians leave and Riker basically what the fuck's Jelico after they left. He's like, I can't believe you're willing to sacrifice Captain McCaw's life as an negotiation tactic. The tensions increased to the degree that Jelico has to relieve him on the spot. You're relieved. It's pretty intense.

Like Riker is off the job for real. I may have crimps and tide on the brain, Ben, but do you think? Do you think Riker at any point considers Mutiny? He would have the support of a lot of the crew, I think. Yeah, I mean, I think the problem for Riker is that Jelico like definitely has the blessing of the Admiralty, and the Admiralty does not appear to be nubbed in this matter.

He's got Jason Robard's on his side. Yeah. So if, uh, if he creates a hell of a mess, uh, the, the chances are not great that they'll let him retire early. Goddamn. Can you imagine? Like, I can see the episode in my head where Riker is Hunter. They go to the weapons store room.

Like, they take back the ship. He's got war funnest side. Yeah. It'd be great. Give me an order, sir. Yeah. A warrior's order. Instead, they banish Riker to his quarters.

And that is that for a while for him. Bulls, big things up, dog, big things up like a thermos and like a hard-boiled egg for breakfast. Like the Stanley-style screw-tap with the little coffee mug on top. Yeah, he's like, I just sleep, buddy. And the guard has been like hung up from the ceiling all evening. Yeah, he's sort of endured a form of crucifixion where he can't put his arms down. They light Gull Madrid here behind the desk in a really interesting way. And what I believe to

be an intentional way, half of them is warm light and half of them is cold light. Yeah, it's a, he's such an interesting character because he, he is decided in the cold open that Picard doesn't know what he was hoping Picard would know. You know, like he had a way to get that information with the sodium pentathol. Yeah, and it turns from like a mission into just like sadism, right? Yeah, and let's just scary idea, right?

Like the idea that a military would have a guy like this who has an office and like people working for him, you know, like it has guards and a staff and You know, he's getting he's getting paid every day to just Wanton Lee torture Picard. Yeah, and that the normal see that you're describing, like of business as usual going on around him while torture is happening in the room is expressed both professionally and also, like, personally, his daughter is in the room sometimes, just like hanging out with a family pet. Like, the torture, the torture is just a thing that happens in their presence in a very horrifying way. You know, Patrick Stewart gets a lot of credit for this episode

and well deserved because he is nude for the majority of the episode and looks worse and worse. Like I was really impressed with the way they did the makeup in this. But his performance gets more and more desperate, but it still precarred the entire time. It's very much the littered captain who is making his making reasonable arguments against an unreasonable person,

like trying to find a chink in the armor of sadism. I think this episode might have the best dialogue of any episode that I can remember. Everything is so efficiently said and stated perfectly. And I don't mean that just for Picard. I mean, Madrid, I mean, Jellico and Riker, like across the board, I felt the dialogue was as good as it's ever been. It really sizzles and it's tense without being

arched. Yeah, it's operatic without being silly or flashy. Yeah, it's it's amazing. You described the physicality of Picard's performance here. I mean, we've sort of made fun of JL pipes up until now. He has fully transformed into JL buns. And it shouldn't go without saying that at this moment in television history, it was sort of a big deal to show side bones, even. Like the Andy Sippowitz butt shot did not occur that much earlier than this year, than the year that this episode came out.

So for a syndicated show to show this much butt, I think was a big deal. They also show the part of his body where his leg meets his torso. Like they are centimeters from showing some, some knuck. And that's like, I mean, that's as intimate as a body part gets without being ding-dong. Yeah. It's one of those weird episodes where you're kind of torn between admiring how great Patrick Stewart looks with his shirt off and the

horrid emotions of the scene. I feel the same way when I watch Jurassic Park and they get you and Malcolm on the table with his shirt off. He's like He's like his life is very much in danger from the injuries. He's sustained, but you're like looking good Pretty sexy for a chaoticion. You can see what Laura Duren sees in you, buddy. So the rest of the episode we're going back and forth. We're seeing Picard diminished throughout. And we're seeing Geleco become more desperate in his attempts to, I guess, stop war, but it doesn't seem very clear that that is his intention, right? I think to a certain extent, his intention is to save face, either federation face or his own

face. Yeah, he is, I mean, this is a total type of powerful guy is like, it's about the appearance of success rather than actual measurable success. And like when Riker starts voicing strong opinions against him is when Riker gets stripped of his command. I mean, it's because he is questioning the decisions of the captain that Riker is taken out of the command structure. And Riker's argument is like, as first officer, it is my responsibility

to point out any actions that may be mistakes by a commanding officer, sir. Yeah, that's the exos function from the start. Safety and well-being of the crew, check and balance on the captain. And it's like, Commander Ranker, you are relieved and don't make me toss you in the brig also. Smash cut to data walking into the ready room

in a red shirt. Yeah. It is very fast and unceremonious. Sure is. It's almost as and unceremonious. Sure is. It's almost as shocking of a visual as it is to see Jellico behind the Ready Room desk. Like, to see someone who's not percured in command is one form of visual shock, but to see data in red is almost equal to that. Do you think that somebody in the costume department was like, do you think we can get away with putting data in a front zip? Because we

just need this for like, like 10 minutes of scene, right? Like we don't need to we don't need to make a full $3,000 backset form, do we? That's a big decision. How long do you think Jellico even thought about the decision of who to make as his exo? Like, I think he knew from the start he wanted data to be the guy because data is always on his arm. Like, the entire time. Right, he walked the ship with data the last episode. He's sort of the perfect choice. Yeah.

He's the only one who can keep up with Jellico too, I feel like, because Jellico operates in such a quick and scattered fashion. Yeah, he is a high tempo commander. I mean, Jordi seems to be like down to do what Jellico is asking. Jordi is definitely a character who wears his emotions on his sleeves. And if he's being asked to do something he doesn't want to do, is like full of size and and and side eye. Like that was totally evident in the last episode. And in this episode, he is really like marching to Gellico's beat. He's he's made a decision to just like roll with this. Um, despite what's happened to Riker and despite his initial misgivings, which I thought was an interesting direction his character went.

I mean, maybe they just didn't feel like they had the time to deal with that. Like, this is another argument for the three-parter, I feel like. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the crew has a window of opportunity to do the I.M. Spartacus thing when Riker goes down down and that window is lost almost immediately. And I think a big part of that is Jordy falling into line. You could count him as part of the resistance in the first half of this episode and now he's sort of company man Jordy. But what's interesting about him and his character in this part of the episode is that he remains close enough to

Jellico to be an instrument, you know, to recommend that Riker is the guy to fly a mission later on, like to be in the right position to sort of insert that kind of resistance, I think is good, right? It is, yeah, and I think that... If you resist too much, you lose the ability to affect change. Right, he stays in Gehlico's good graces. He is trustworthy. It is a crazy, crazy, one-stop-release-based.

Are you gone finding within yourself? Just stand up, tell the truth. You don't deserve to wear that uniform. This is when I think the torture scene sort of take a turn and there's stuff being any pretense that there's information extraction at work. And what Madrid explains to Picard is that they've installed a device in his body. There's like a big scar on his chest and they've installed a device in his body that will allow Madrid to like point a TV remote at him and inflict

any amount of pain he wants in any part of Picard's body. Forgive me. I don't enjoy this but I must demonstrate it will make everything clearer. All right, thank you guys on the five and welcome to Hannity and this is a Foxes alert. The deal is Picard is going to have to tell Madred that there are five lights above his desk when in fact there are only four. I wanted to know more about this controller bin. Can you really flip through the scroll wheel and select like hand or shoulder or dick? Yeah, could you do like like pinky finger on left hand or is it just kind of like regional? Yeah, like how granular can you get? I don't know. It's sort of an amazing technological feat in a terrifying sort of way.

Like all you see is a scar on his collarbone and that's it. I mean, and Picard's no stranger to a terrible implant. This has got to count as among the worst. Did that date in France that one time with that lady? Those are some terrible implants. That guy playing that that dick accordion. This is a crazy series of scenes because it's like such a pointless thing. It's just Madrid working to break Picard's spirit. Say that there are five lights, deny reality. Say two plus two equals five and you have some hope of this stopping. And

like, he keeps tempting Picard. It's also kind of biblical in that way where he'll say, like, okay, you know, this is clearly not working, you can take off. We'll just do this to your friend, the lady, and Picard is forced to turn around and resubject himself to the torture because he thinks that he is preventing Beverly from undergoing the same thing. And for Madrid to ask him to say the words that he wants to stay, like, that's as rock bottom as it gets, right? Yeah. It's really brutal. There's this, this back and forth, it's like Madrid inhabits the good cop and the bad cop at the same time. Like, he's turning on the torture device for hours on Picard, and then he's also giving

him, like, the Ordalán breakfast. Right. There's this emotional whiplash happening that serves as its own form of torture as well. Well, and it's really interesting because it exposes Madrid to some, like Madrid winds up being vulnerable to Picard in this very subtle way that Picard picks up on and uses for all its worth,

which is that Madrid has like transmitted some personal information about himself to Picard picks up on and uses for all its worth, which is that Madrid has like transmitted some personal information about himself to Picard, and Picard turns that into a status flip. Madrid has been stepping on his balls and cutting his clothes off the entire time, and Picard, after hearing this story of Madridred's desperate childhood, kind of, you know, armchair psychoanalyzes him and says that he pitties him. And that like, really fucking sends Madred off the handle. There's a moment here where, you know, between Madred, Madred's daughter and Picard, the

daughter takes off and Madred and Picard are having to talk about it and Picard's like When children learn to devalue others, they can devalue anyone, including their parents. And Madred is maybe his most furious at this point. And he calls Picard a whole bunch of things including arrogant. And it just made me think like that thing where an intelligent person calls someone out on their bullshit and gets called arrogant for doing it. God, damn it. That is such a fucking contemporary thing, isn't it?

Like, don't you call me stupid. That is a timeless conflict. And it really made me sit straight up watching the episode like, God, this episode is so good. It almost throws away a moment like this, and it ends up being like one of the most poignant scenes in the whole thing. There's so much that is predictive about this episode, I feel like. Yeah, how could they know? My love is a people long and simple back,

which long and thus have the busy. How they hold your mouth and hold your mouth and hold your mouth. The deal on the enterprise is that they've figured out that there's like some, some, uh, whole damage on the Kardashian ship that indicates that it's been subjected to a certain type of nebula, and there's one that happens to be really close to the planet that Madrid has been asking for card about the whole time, Minas Corva. It's maybe the smartest thing that Gellaco has done

the entire two episodes. He's like, Jordy, we need some hot cattening. Yeah, we need some kind of edge. Is there any way you could tell me where these cardacian ships have been? Be cool about it. Like don't be all flashy with the sensors, but like, see if you can get a read on these ships

and tell me, and it turns out that they've been in some poopy. And they can tell where the poopy came from. Yeah. They've narrowed this poopy down. Yeah. And so this is where they realize that they need a hot fighter jack to pilot the the Previa that they're going to send into the Nebula because Captain Gehlico's plan is that they'll drop mines off in front of all of the Cardass Kardashian ships that are hiding in weight, waiting to invade this planet.

And they'll be forced to back off slowly. So he's like, he's, you know, he wants Jordi to do it, and Jordi's like, I'm good, but I'm not that good. Jordi has one of the lines of dialogue that I feel like offscreen has been said a couple thousand times, which is... Man, you won, it's Commander Riker. Yeah. If you want to pierce a warm nebula with a mine... He's the best there is.

Since when is Riker the best there is as a pilot? God, I don't know. Since it's a convenient necessity for this episode. If it had been, we need somebody who's great at saucer separation. We would have had some game tape on that. Yeah, you know, if driving a shuttle was about giving it verbal instructions, I think this would be a pretty credible piece of character for Riker, but as it is, he's a great stick jockey.

Or a pad jockey, as it were. It never looks that hard to fly these things, you know? They're just like tapping away on those glass panels. Yeah, on the Tesla screen. Yeah, you own a fire up Pandora. She like adult contemporary Jordi. What this scene sets up I think is one of the great scenes in a two-parter full of great scenes, which is Jellico knocking on Riker's condo door, had in hand. So something I can do for you, Captain?

Asking him to go on this mission. And when I saw this episode for the first time, like, as an 11-year-old, this totally stuck with me for the rest of my life. The idea is that there's something that you can do about a power imbalance sometimes. That's dropped ranks for a moment. I don't like you.

Like, in a disagreement with someone, there are times when you can say stuff like this and it is okay. I don't like you either. And this scene between Riker and Jellico is amazing. They are like swinging baseball bats at each other. Yeah, I don't think you're particularly good captain. Their assessments of each other's faults are pretty incisive and on point. Like even, even Jellico has some truth in what he says about Riker.

I was wrong, you were right. You're the best, I'm the worst. You're a very good looking, I'm not attractive. I mean, I think that Jellico winds up rounding it up to Riker as a bad officer, but it's really just that their two styles are utterly incompatible. There's too much humanity in the way Riker operates to work for Jelico. He is a total chain of command man. Well, that underscores even more why he chooses data to be the exo.

Like, there is no humanity in that choice. It is. It's orders and by the book. And Riker is in like a navy blue power v during this conversation. And he, he like, he never gets up. He remains seated and sort of like reclined in a very comfortable way. Yeah, the camera never pans down,

but I totally pictured that he had one foot up on an ottoman so that he could just show a little sack off to, to gelico. Right, and the composition here really serves their differences in philosophy, you know? Like, gelico has, has rigidly walked in. He's, he remains standing. He remains formal, even though he drops the ranks. Like, and Riker is utterly cool the entire time. Yeah. And Jellico hates it. Riker is a jazz player. Yeah. For as much as they're like taking the bark off of each other like they're never yelling

They never lose their tempers with each other. It is it is cool. Yeah, really cool. Chilly Yeah, ice cold Rikers point basically is I want you to ask me to do the mission and Jellico does and Riker with one of the bigger shitty ding grins you will get on the show is like, I'll do it. I like that Riker and Picard are both rocking deep vies in this episode. Yeah, Picard's showing a little bit more bun though. Yeah. They fly the mission to a tense little scene and they plant mines on the bellies of all of these cardacian ships.

And then finally, Jelico has enough leverage to have a conversation with the cardacian that he gets the upper hand in. And they talk on the FaceTime. And like maybe one of the few like out and out fails of this episode is that the bridge of the cardacian ship is Total season one level like we don't have the budget to build a bridge of a ship We don't have the budget or we don't know yet what a cardacian bridge looks like right so we'll just We'll put up some some sheet metal with a little texture on it little little design You know and Give it some moody lighting, but that's as far as we're able to go.

It's interesting and disappointing that Jellico gets the upper hand here, not through any sort of intellectual way, but in sort of a warfighting way. Every one of your ships has a mind on its belly, my fingers on the button and you're in a very bad position. Like, the leverage she gets is mine's stuck to ships. Yeah. And it is like, he's like one by one, you guys are going to walk out of that. Nebula, kick your side arm across the floor toward us and leave.

Yeah, it's a, I've got a gun to your head. It's not a, got a gun to your head. It's not a I out what did you is Gellico's failure his fault or is it admiral nachez fault for signing him that mission? I would like did she set him up to fail? Yeah, I mean because Because as loathsome at times as Gellico is I mean mean, in the Crimson Tide parlance, he is also right in many ways. Yeah. In much of his decision making,

like, I feel like it's a failure of the admiralty to put him in that spot, because he is so unfit for it. He is so overmatched at every point. The only way he wins is militarily. Well, that's the thing. I mean, this is like a very current dilemma, right? Like, do you let the Russians take Crimea and, you know, not heat up a war surrounding

it, or is everything a potential prelude to war, which like, you know, both seem wrong, and both seem right. I am the cutest of all. There are all lights. One of the last scenes in the episode is back on Cardassia and Madrid and Picard are sitting across from each other. We know that at this point Picard's safety has been arranged for. But that is not. Yeah, as a sort of a throw-in between Jeleco and the Cardassians. He's like, yeah, kick your guns across the way.

And then he's sort of, oh, yo, by the way, is them. Right, one more thing. Yeah, exactly. It's weird because it just cuts right to Madrid and Picard. And Madrid is singing kind of the opposite tune. He's saying that the Enterprise has been scuttled and that Cardassians have taken Minos Corva. And he's basically giving Picard one more chance to make a moral stand. You know, and if you tell me there's five lights,

you can have the kind of like gentlemen's arrest, you know, where you get to live in the Tower of London and have a young man and books and food will be brought to you. In prison, dinner was always a big thing. We had a pasta course and then we had a meat or a fish. You'll have a pretty chill life, but you'll be a prisoner nonetheless. It's a very good system. Or, you know, conversely we can put you in bedlam and you'll be a victim of torture for the rest of your life.

The ride factor is on tonight! The Rive Factor is on tonight. So, uh, your choice, bra. And it's a, you know, it's a choice with it like he, as far as he knows, he doesn't have any chance of being rescued at this point. So there's no, there's no downside to breaking, but other than just abdicating his own sense of sanity. He has the choice of collar in prison, basically. Do you prefer the blue or the white? And as he's replying, the door opens,

couple of Cardassian goons walk in and they're like, they're like, dude, we gotta transfer this guy back to the Federation. Like, why isn't he cleaned up yet? It is so interesting to see Madrid's status. Lowered. Yeah. He is not the boss of that guy. Like, Lomec is a higher ranking dude than Madrid

and that is fascinating because Madrid seems like the apex of the pyramid for so much of this episode. Yeah, apex predator for sure. And it turns out he's just a middle-management asshole. Right. They start hauling Picard away and he screams at, but there are four lights. And then he bats the card, asking his hands away. He's like, I know the way. He walks out. You know, as horrible as all the scenes are between them, I will miss seeing scenes of them together

because they are so great. You can't beat the sort of tension that is generated between two fine actors in a situation like this. Yeah, they're amazing. I mean, they're given, like, incredible dialogue and they are giving very challenging roles, very nuanced roles, and, like, they're just so good.

They just do a great job with it. You get an episode with dialogue like this and then you get an episode before it and like they're just so good, they just, they do a great job with it. You get an episode with dialogue like this and then you get an episode before it with like 70 occurrences of exocompany. Yeah, so Picard is transferred back to the Enterprise. There is the transfer of command back to Picard from Jeleco on the bridge. That was nice to give him a ship back. And Picard shows up like he still got the bags under his eyes.

He is still a little bit hobbled from his experience. At least he's got that after 5 shadow dealt with. I liked seeing Picard with a little bit of that beard. Yeah, and he's all around. Season six. It's amazing to think about the time period that that all took place over, given like what kind of growth we're looking at. Like a week max, you know, maybe five days. Yeah. It would be my guess. It'd take me couple of weeks to push out that much facial hair. I don't think that I don't think you and Picard have precisely the same genetics though, Adam.

Sorry to say. Now I'll keep my hair. Thank you very much. Well, yeah, the button on the episode is Picard kind of wordlessly nods to Troy and she follows him into the ready room. And he admits something pretty upsetting about the four lights thing, which is that before he knew he was going home, he was going to not only was he going to say that he saw five lights, but that he really did see five lights.

There's that intimacy between Picard and his crew that is yet another contrast between him and Jellico, which is all he has to do to get Troy's attention to go to the ready room with him is like a glance. And Picard, you know, has kind of a reputation for keeping his people at a distance, but it's nothing like what Jellico does. He needs her in a way that I don't think we've ever seen before, and it's great. You know, sometimes he's been a little resistant to mental health help, and in this, he's just like, this is something I'm really going to need. Yeah. Did you notice that they never show the lights

in that last scene? So like, and like, my mind goes in the direction of like, they could be adding and subtracting lights whenever they want, right? Like they could just replicate a new light and have it beamed up there. That's like, meta-torture, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, that's like gaslighting,

is like changing somebody's reality in subtle ways to cause them to question their own senses, essentially. Yeah, yeah. And I thought that it was very deft that they never shoved a little insert of the lights in there, because, you know, they had that footage, but they had the restraint not to do it.

Yeah, I think when you're given the choice, you just keep the shot on Patrick Stewart. Let it sizzle. Yeah. Did you like this episode, Ben? I love this episode. I'm really glad that this isn't a normal kind of episode, because I think that this is a tone and a level of tension that so much contemporary sci-fi goes for and never wants to leave. And I like that this is the salt that brings out the sweet of the rest of the series. You know, like this is

this is something that can happen in the universe but is out the suite of the rest of the series. You know, like this is something that can happen in the universe, but it's not the routine of the universe. I agree. I bet you're self. I think this is as good as this show got in a lot of ways. But effort as good as part two is, I still in a strange way prefer part one and again I would have preferred a third part.

Yeah. You don't get a few scenes here that I would have liked to have seen. One of them being Riker's side mission to go pick up Worf and Beverly from the Firingi freighter. What must that have been like? I would love to have just had a scene with Reiker and Troy maybe while he is relieved of command. Right. Like what's he going through? How does he feel about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He feels about that,

you know, as a crew person who has to serve under data now, what does that mean to her? A great episode, I feel like, could become greater with a little more shading like that. But there's just no time, you know? If you're committed to a two-parter, this is what you have to do. Indeed, Adam. Like how scary is it for Riker to get new a Previa, leave the Enterprise as it's facing off against a Cardassian ship and then just go across the get new a Previa, leave the enterprise as it's facing off against a Cardassian ship and then just go across the galaxy on a pickup mission, like on a milk

run. Yeah. Like, there's a tension in that too, but we don't get to see it. And like the despair of seeing a wharf and Beverly far from home after a failed mission, like you get a little bit of that in 6-B when Beverly's on the BioBad, Jellikos, like, sorry, Tiger, we really tried. And that's like, that's all of the aftermath of the mission you really get from Beverly and Wharf. You get so little wharf this episode too. That, you know, the inner turmoil that he must feel about leaving a guy behind has got to be so acute.

He's got to be destroyed by this. Like, all the little devastations among the crew, you could spend a little bit of time with, and I think you could add them up into a level of hopelessness that might equal what Picards going through while being tortured. But maybe that's just a depth that they were unwilling to go for on a show like this and I get that.

Worf has a little bit of evident shame in that six-base scene, but mostly he's just a background character. Out of my read that they thought about making this a three-party with rascals and actually torturing young JLP. I want to say there are full lights! Why aren't the lights flashing? Make them flash! I want them to flash now! Send me back to Commander Ryka!

Yeah, I mean, you get a really wonder if Madrid has the stomach to torture a child. That'd be pretty fucked up. What's that animal your daughter had? I should like to play with it too! Adam, do you want to see if we have any priority one messages? Yeah, I think we should do that. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement on it. supplement on it?

supplement supplement Yes, extra. But the interest alone could be enough to buy this ship! Ben, our first priority one message is from Sam. up to buy this ship. Best friend, Sam Adam and Lily, and this podcast was paid for by Big Rod. Thank you, Adam and Ben. What? Did we just take money from Big Rod without knowing it?

Who is this Sam? How does he have dispensation to give us Big Rod money? Is this one of the many duin children? Is this Sam duin? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Sam, do you, him? Maybe we've accepted big Rod money, and we don't even know it. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. We don't have, we're not like set up the way a political campaign is where we can bet all of the big dollar contributions and make sure they're not coming from sources that

would be embarrassing to the candidate. And like, there's a certain amount of anonymizing that happens when somebody purchases the jumbo tron. So all that is to say, as far as Adam and I are concerned, we remain untainted by big rod. And if somebody from big rod needed a favor from us, we would not comply. I think there's a fair amount of plausible deniability about whether or not we've accepted

big rod money. Yes. That would be anathema to us. And we have another priority one message here, and it is front pleveeem. It's for Razz's wife? Oh no. Please be good. Please don't say something awful.

In brackets here, it says, please play berry white type music in the background. And it says, Happy birthday, Claudia. I'll never forget our nights at sea together. Oh. Oh. I'm back off the Razz resin plevium train, man.

That was the entire message. Yeah. God, you know, see what you will about what resin plevium are, how they use our message service. But they're very efficient in their messaging. message service, but they're very efficient in their messaging. Yeah, straight to the point. Oh, man. And just like that, a new character has been introduced into the Razzin Plavime verse. Claudia, it's a, the, there's a new star in the Razzin Plavime Firmament.

I actually got a tweet from Plavime. There's a new star in the resin plevim firmament. I actually got a tweet from plevim the other day and he said that his wife has instituted a rule that for every priority one message he procures he is obligated to give the same amount of money to charity. So at least there's that comfort in this. That will help me sleep at night. Good thinking. It's just better than nothing.

Yeah. Wow. Well, if you have an ongoing personal drama that you would like to have the world know about, you can take that business over to MaximumFund.org slash Jumbo Tron where personal messages of the type Razz and Plavim enjoy are $100 and commercial messages are $200 and they are one of the best ways to keep the ongoing production of our show Moving thanks guys

Thanks Hey, Ben What's that Adam? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? Take it for the stuff, stack it up, doesn't give a fuck everybody's drunk and touch you are It's kitten robot, hump, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim I did. This is a very hard episode to find a Shimoda in. Yeah. And I wanted to give it to Gullma D, because there are more than a couple of moments in his performance where he is embarrassed or defied

in some way. And like the two obvious ones are the one where Picard says that he finds impitiable. And the other one is when Gull LeMec comes in and is like, hey, Bob, what the hell? His performance of embarrassment is so good. It's so in character and yet contrary to everything we know about his character, I really enjoyed that part. And as long as the drunk Shemota is the character having the most fun, I feel like that was probably

like the funnest thing to try and figure out how to do an actor inhabiting that role. How about yourself? I am going to give my Sh Shimoda to Jeleco. I think one of the key components to a Shimoda is the lack of self-awareness. And I think Jeleco embodies that perfectly in the moment that he transfers command back to Picard. So they've done the handshake thing. Picard's back is captain.

Jeleco stands relieved and he's like, well, you got your ship back just as good aselico stands relieved and he's like, well, you got your ship back, just as good as he left it, and that sort of under his breath, he's like, maybe a little better. And then like, and then just walks up the horseshoe into the turbo lift and leaves forever. Yeah, like nobody's, he's not shaking anybody's hand,

they're like wishing anybody a fair, you will. That little, maybe a little better was so exquisite. Like that line reading was perfect. It was perfectly not self-aware. Like, it was coming from a guy who truly believed that. And couldn't have been more wrong. But such a great parting shot too. Like, like, he has he as he lurches his way into the sunset.

Like, good on you, Cap Angelico. Like, go back to the Cairo. Enjoy the rest of your career. Yeah. I thought that was great. Yomok Angelad and Tanaga. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We got stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweards. Pat Noswald. Could I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org.

Look, your podcast apps are open. Just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Whoa, Ross, hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I?

These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks. But I'm hearing we need to get on this all. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans, but we're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different.

Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came to by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun or dot org. and carry available on MaximumFun.org. What do we have coming up on the next episode, Ben?

The next episode is season six episode 12, ship in a bottle, a calculating Sherlock Holmesian character, traps Picard and others in a holodeck simulation. Do you remember this episode, Adam? I really don't, Ben. This is one of those ones that I don't feel like they replay this one very often, either on the reruns. So we're coming up blank on this. I definitely remember and like this one. So I am looking forward to watching it. Yeah. Let's do it. This is going to be one of those treat episodes

that feels new to me and I love that. Yeah, it's good times. All right, well that will be our next one. That's good times. All right, well that will be our next one. We should thank all of the people who go to MaximumFund.org slash Donate and support our show. People will go to maxfunstore.com and buy our merch. The people who go to gach.biz slash mail and sign up for our mailing list. The people who go to iTunes and leave glowing reviews. We're up over 1200 now, Adam. We have so many people to thank.

1200 reviews. It's bonkers. It's bonkers. If we had as many reviews as we have paying supporters, we would be nearly double that. So, you know, put that in your pipe and smoke it. We should also thank Dark Materia for our theme music, Adam Rekucia for our supplemental music and our myriad viewers who take to the internet to discuss our episodes.

They can do that over at Twitter using the hashtag GreatestGen or also on reddit, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn we are not a Instagram my LinkedIn but we are on wikia. There's a great greatest gen wiki that you can contribute to and Read up on jokes if you Missed if you missed the introduction of a running character you can like forensically go into what that character's genesis and characteristics are.

It is an amazing resource that we don't deserve. Then there's no shortage of podcasts or websites that write about or review Star Trek the Next Generation episodes, but I feel like ours leaves that universe a little bit better, doesn't it? Yeah, it's like the campsite rule. Yeah. Or the Captain Jellico rule. So with that, we will be back at you next week with another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation and an episode

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