The Greatest Generation - R U Trying to Talk Kanar RE: Damar 2 Me? (DS9 S6E15)

Episode Date: May 25, 2020

When Chief O’Brien goes undercover to infiltrate a multi-level crime syndicate, he begins to see the advantage of working with his friends. But when his secret identity becomes something he can’t sell, his downstream employees may be stuck holding the bag. What makes a person “look Starfleet”? Why are Bolian banks robbed so often? Do pets like to watch? It’s the episode that finally comes up with a great comic book idea!

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and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Welcome to the greatest generation Deep Space Nine. It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed about having a Star Trek podcast. I'm Adam Pryanaka.

I'm Ben Harrison. We landed on a square last week and it's made us do a thing. I'm looking at that thing. I'm looking at that thing during. We're doing canar with demar. Our inaugural canar with demar. We're doing looking at canar during. How did you go, Bill? Are you trying to talk canar, are you to me. Yeah well if we were on mid-roll that would probably be the name of this show. Right. How did you go about sourcing your Kenar? Because I know that it's pretty hard to find

outside of the Cardassian star empire. I think I just made it a project that went like, what is a cocktail that I've been wanting to make lately and I haven't. That's what I'll call, that's what I'll call canar for the purposes of our show. And I did that, I did exactly that. Would you like to know what my drink is been? Would you like to know more? Alright, my version of Kanar with Dammar goes like this. You're gonna want two ounces of miscal. One ounce of simple syrup, three quarters ounce fresh lime juice, a quarter ounce plus

one teaspoon of fresh ginger juice. And here's where I go away from the recipe a little bit. I used a ginger shrub that I made over the weekend. Hey, that sounds nice. I love you fucked around with shrubs, but that's what I'm using in place of the ginger juice. And then here's the thing that I make this uniquely canar. Okay. It's got two drops of toasted sesame oil in it. What the fuck? So you put that in a shaker, shake it all around, and then you take the cap off the shaker,

top with a couple ounces of club soda, and then pour that through the strainer and the top. That's how you mix it. I've never seen a cocktail recipe mix the club soda with a drink like this. Yeah. And it sort of was great move. So I capped it with a club soda.

I put the top of the shake or back on. I strained it into my Taco Bell Star Trek three search for spat glass. And I don't know if you can see it, but it's a nice pale green, pale brown kind of look at it because of the... It looks like diluted canar, I think. Yeah, the couple of times we've actually seen the liquid of canar on screen. It's looked kind of chunky and I didn't want...

It does not look good. The level of viscosity that we've seen depicted. What I did was I did a riff on a negroni that has none of the ingredients of a negroni. It just uses the proportions because negroni is a gin, compari, and sweet for muth in equal measures. So what I did was rum, Sews, and a Sweeter Italian Amaro, Amaro Lucano in equal measures. What was the middle thing you said? Sews?

Yeah. What means Sews? Sews is a French Apertif, it's a Gentian bitter, so it can- I don't know what that word means either. Gentian is a root that is used for bitter flavor in a lot of spirits. It's in a lot of cocktail bitters. It's real nasty stuff. I've messed with the raw root because I used to make my own bitters. I would say that wormwoodwood is the only, is the only nastier

substance I've worked with personally. Like the dust that comes off of it, if it gets in your nostrils, will just like your palate is wrecked for the rest of the day. But I haven't actually tried this yet, so I'm gonna give it. Hey, cheers to you and to Demar. Yeah. Fantastic. This is a nice drink. It's actually, it's relaxed in the glass quite a bit since I mixed it, but I did a double recipe and two giant ice cubes so that I could make it through

our record here today without having to pop up and go mix another one. It's good. I like mine also, and that was a great subtle tip out there for anyone who's dabbling in the cocktails that you just dropped there been. Letting the cocktail lay down many times is going to not only get it colder, but a little bit of the dilution can help many cocktails taste a little better.

That's true. Boy, I can't wait to get into this episode. This is such a unique episode of Deep Space 90. You want to talk about season 6 episode 15? Honor among thieves. I love how this episode doesn't even give you a chance to ask why. Why, O'Brien? But you're never given a moment to even consider that because... Oh, I totally considered it. I think that the... Because the show just plops you in his story. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

You don't see him recruited. You don't see him writing his will because O'Brien's a famous willman. Yeah. He loves writing wills before going on an dangerous mission. The wheel is not shared. The none of the misgivings, none of the, I guess, face times with Keko. Because she's like on Earth or something, right? Yeah, and also off the show.

Yeah, but yeah, like we come in in media race. He is, we get an establishing shot of this planet that I don't know if we ever get the name of this planet, but I think of it in my head as Rust Coruscant. That's a good name. It is various, though, as in a place that's very unfairious for its inhabitants. Yeah, it's sort of like factory-looking planet, except for all there seems to be on this planet are bars and apartments. Yeah, this is what makes it such a popular place for the Orion Syndicate.

Yeah. It's got a real criminal element. Indeed it does. There's some dudes hanging out in this bar, nowhere near O'Brien, and you can just tell right off the bat that they're up to no good. And they're worried about somebody named Raymos that is not going to be happy with something that happened. If you're wondering how pervasive the criminal activity is on Ferrius, all you need to know is that these criminals chose a fairly empty bar to do their very loud business in. I wondered watching this if it was influenced by the sopranos because I just started watching that with my wife. Oh yeah. This came out like a year before sopranos came out.

Oh yeah, clearly inspiring. Did you hit HBO show, the Sopranos? Yeah, I think the inspiration went the other way. What do you think of this loaf? Is this the loaf that's on some of the aliens in this bar? Like, Raymos has this loaf, Fleth has this loaf. There's a guy doing hookah in the beginning of this scene that has this loaf. It's like no, a pretty subtle like, bejorin amount of loaf, but not bejorin. Is this what Orion, like people from Orion have? Cause I thought Orion's were green.

If you have loaf, you're welcome here. You don't have to be Orion to be in the Orion crime syndicate. Right, but I thought like, you had to be Orion to get made, you know? Yeah, that's my prudym. And who do I give it to? Like if you're half a Ryan, half Irish, it's no good. Now that means you're black a Ryan?

Is that how that works? I'm not sure. I've only seen like half of a season of sopranos. Wow, buckle up, Ben. season of sopranos. Wow buckle up, Ben. Oh, Brian's deep cover outfit appears to be a headless time square fuzzy bear costume. Yeah, he does say walk a walk a walk an awful lot in this episode. I mean, it's always storming on furious. So I understand maybe wanting to dress in layers, but it looks pretty hot. The dudes sitting at this table decide that they want a bite to eat and they're going to put in an order on space door dash and they nominate Kroll, the most lofie of them,

to get up. What are some ofalus sandwiches? And Kroll has one of these neck-mounted computer interfaces that we saw in that one episode with the pretty lady that had it. Right. It turned out to be a secret agent. Kroll doesn't have the hair for covering that up though. He's just letting his Frankenstein bolts hang. He's not trying to like pass in polite society.

He lives on this dumpy planet. Yeah, clearly unfairious. No one cares what you look like. Then if you ever walked through a drive-through, that's what this food ordering system looks like. It looks like a drive-through window that's just in the middle of a bar. Yeah, it's about as hazardous as the time

that Larry does that in curb. I want one second. And it's totally annoying in the way that you would understand it. Like everyone's just yelling orders at Crowl and Crowl is trying to get it all straight. Get them to deliver some extra vellum sauce and some skittles. Yeah. But he makes a terrible error by ordering the war-flightening last and This is a meal that comes served Electrocuted for yeah, don't touch him. He's me spite Brian like Serepticiously spikes crow and then makes a show of helping him and

Assessing the damage to to his little interface gizmos, which he says are fused, but maybe he can fix them. This is how he catches Bilbi's eye, Bilbi's deboss, and O'Brien has been tasked with preparing this gizmo, and that means he's got a second date with Bilby. You take these. Bring them back tomorrow morning, fixed and polished. Tomorrow morning it is. It's like leaving something behind in a girl's apartment, you know. I was just going to say I really like his chances here.

O'Brien bent over to pick up the other Frankenstein bolt that Kroll dropped on the ground and Billbe is like, damn. How do we get a little bit of backstory? Because it is there that O'Brien meets up with his Starfleet intelligence guy. And in this conversation that they have, we learn that he's in deep cover and he's trying to get in with the Orion Syndicate. The issue is that the other operatives that Starfleet intelligence had embedded in the Orion Syndicate have been dropping like flies.

They've lost five of them in the last year, which means they're pretty sure at this point that they must have a rat in Starfleet intelligence. And so that's why O'Brien, that's why they need somebody that is not affiliated in any way with Starfleet intelligence. You get the sense that Chadwick

is kind of running this up very close to the best. Not a lot of people know that this is happening. I feel like any time Chadwick walks around, furious, people are yelling, not get him. Has there ever been a person that looks more starfleet than Chadwick does? He must just live in that alley. How could he possibly leave? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the like meeting in the alley felt very dangerous. If you're a legit criminal unfairious, you meet in the bar.

I just feel like Bill B probably has like a drone following Connolly the second he leaves the bar. Yeah. Like Connolly cannot meet with strange men that look like cops outside safely. Among the things that this episode forces you to forget is that, I mean, if you are a starfleet and deep cover, you should be wearing loaf. Yeah, that'd be nice if you had some of that nose loaf. He needs to be under loaf cover for safety. Yeah, so the the table is set

and we go to theme song and when we come back we're at the station where shit is really fallen apart. Because O'Brien's the only one who knew how to do anything there. That's a real indictment of O'Brien's ability to manage engineers, I think. Like the idea that he has a huge team that none of whom have learned enough to, to, like, what if O'Brien gets killed on this mission? Do they just have to withdraw from deep space nine? Dumb is ROM. If we don't even get a scene with him, I like this scene because it turns Kira into the station super-intendant and that's an uncomfortable place for her because like it's coming from all directions. Like, Dax and Wurf and Quark and Odo, like they're just hammering her for all of their, their leaky faucets. When I wonder if they ever considered like cutting to ROM at his just who hundred task list long list of things to do if this episode like three times cut to ROM in a Jeffrey's tube just like desperately banging on something like no

like and the third cut to him is him just in the fetal position crying in a Jeffrey's tube what third cut to him is him just in the fetal position crying in a jeffries tube. What we need to do is torture O'Brien a little less torture Ram a little more. Yeah We also get a scene in the commander's office where Dr. Bashir is pissing himself with fear over what might befall his friend chief O'Brien. I wonder if they gave any thought to putting Bixir under cover. He's smart, he sees all the angles. He loves spy shit.

He loves spy shit way more than O'Brien. O'Brien likes being a pilot. I'm not talking about the episode asking that, I'm talking about if this were real. Right. Why wouldn't Chadwick choose B Bashir over O'Brien? I'm still lost on why it has to be O'Brien doing this. Yeah, the episode pays some lip service to the idea

that O'Brien is worried about blowback hitting his family. Like he conceals the fact that he has a family to build the several times. And just from like an operational standpoint, like spies and spy movies are all the time described as like people with no connections to the square world. Because if you have that, it could become leverage, you know? Who has fewer connections to the square world

than Dr. Bashir? Like he is. For Dr. Bashir, his children are his glasses of urine. Each one more precious than the last. How could I pick among them? There is a growing bond between chief of Brian and Billby, or Connolly and Billby, I guess, because Connolly is able to repair

this neckhacking gadget and that means he's kind of like, he's kind of being danced with. They're considering letting him kind of be part of the gang. I don't know where I live. I know a lot about you. Maybe more than you want me to. Come with me. Where are we going? We're on walk.

I mean, this scene is really dark because when Bill B. Hans O'Brien a phaser and asks him to shoot that homeless man in the alley in order to join the gang. He has to do it. He has no choice. Yeah, and you know, this is something that every, every undercover has to do, right? Like hit the crack pipe or, or, you know, stab a junkie or whatever. And it's practically a catchphrase for O'Brien because before he blows this guy's brains out He's like, I don't hate you Homeless man, unfairious I hate what you made me become

The second date Involves O'Brien going home with Bilby Yeah, this is- And it seems like things are going a little fast Very fast Bilby, I mean, the reason I looked up the sopranos thing is because Bill B reveals himself to be a, kind of a soft touch and a family man.

Like he's a character that, up until this point, we have seen as like the scariest guy in the bar, not like the most physically intimidating, but definitely like the superior of these other two gangsters, a guy that you wouldn't want to be, you know, on the wrong side of. And then he shows this kind of vulnerability very suddenly to Gifo Brian. Do you like my wife's cake? To tell you the truth and say, it's a little dry. Brian says, you know, to tell you the truth,

I'd prefer your wife's pie, but I'll take it. And then Billbe's like, and then Billbe's like, you're in luck and then he pulls back the curtain and then there's Billbe's wife on all four. She's not wearing any pants. Billbe sits back in his chair and he talks about how much he likes to watch. Bill B is kind of a classic, powerful man that loves being cuckolded. What Bill B does show O'Brien is his AK-47 phaser, and he's like, I really love what you

did with those Frankenstein bolts before, but you got anything that will fix these. Yeah, these are clinging on disruptive rifles that they still on behalf of Ramos, who is the dude that they were referring to being afraid of before. And there's a quick diagnostic where Chufo Brian looks it over and assesses what is wrong with it. And this is the next mission. This is the next step toward joining the gang. Yes, O'Brien is going to have to fix these rifles.

Bill B's explanation of the crime syndicate is so MLM. You don't know what organization I'm referring to, don't you? I think so. He's like, look, we really don't know Ramos, but I can tell you he's above me, and then everyone else you met at the bar is below me. And this Klingon rifle looks brand name, right? It's actually from confederated products.

And I can sell it to you for half the price of what you might pay in a store. Now, I've got a whole garage full of these. What I'm suggesting for you is you get seven friends and then they get seven friends. the price of what you might pay in a store. Now, I've got a whole garage full of these. What I'm suggesting for you is you get seven friends and then they get seven friends. We don't just sell the products ourselves. No sooner you'll read about it. This is all about your down line. I could tell you a pretty social person. You probably have seven friends easily. You do have seven friends, don't you?

You know, like the way that I built some of these is invited people over to my house for a, you know, like a pleasant dinner party and then suggested, why don't we go into the living room and talk about a pretty exciting business opportunity I might be able to get you involved in. Almost everything in this house is from confederated products, from the toilet paper,

to the candles, to the ham. Even that colonial life. I find that after they fucked my wife, is a great time to tell them about a great business opportunity. I do like to have a little bit of extra spending money. Maybe get yourself a boat or this nice Mercedes in this pamphlet.

O'Brien is interested. Of course he is because this is his mission. Yeah. He's got to get deeper and deeper undercover and in with this crime syndicate. He's got to build trust because he's got to find out who the rat is. It's not that fixing anything was the test. The cake was the test because that's the moment where Bilby is like, you know, these other assholes, you know, down the line in my MLM, they would never tell me that this cake sucked, but you told me right away, that means I can trust you. I really appreciate your cake honesty. Um.

Bilby was sort of doing that martac thing where he was asking if his cake was hot and making it a test, right? Right. And I think that he's genuinely charmed by the fact that Chief O'Brien is an honest man in this dishonest place. Go to cut to a cut, go to cut to a word. So. I mean, for all the questions we're asking about,

whether or not O'Brien is the appropriate person for a mission like this, I like that his default setting when it comes to like spy craft is just like being affable and normal. Like he's not trying to be a spy here. He's not even trying to like save his own life even though that's the subtext. He's just being himself, utterly.

Right, like the only, like he tells a couple of lies like I don't have a family or whatever, but he never tells a lie he doesn't have to. And it seems like in the scene they're kind of falling for each other. Hey, what do you make of that, Chasty? I have found me an honest man. Bilby is lost in the limpid pools of Chief O'Brien's eyes and Chief O'Brien is excited to see a photo of Bilby's family. The format for this episode is every time O'Brien has a scene with Bilby or anyone else in the syndicate, the very next scene is in the alley.

So it's the same here. He meets up with Chadwick and Chadwick gives him the replacement parts to fix the disruptors. Right. These are induction coils that they got special from the Klingon Ambassador to Ferrius. Pretty plum gig. Yeah, I always love the phrase Klingon Ambassador. It just sounds like a contradiction in terms, like Starfleet Intelligence. The very name is racist. The Federation is no more than a homo sapiens-only club. intelligence. The very name is racist.

Federation is no more than a homo sapiens only club. I mean, I I use that line of dialogue because that's like one of the few ambassadors we've we've gotten. Yeah. Yeah, this guy is the the Klingon ambassador is is only in the mind, right? We never actually meet him. Right. Also, when the mind is a Brian's apartment. We never get to see it. And I think that's why we're always in this alley. Yeah. There's only three sets in this episode, really. Yeah. So O'Brien fixes these Klingon AKs,

gives them back to the gang, and it looks like these things are going to work. Everyone is psyched, and Bill B is so impressed with the work here that he gives O'Brien a makeover. I think it's time we did something about the way you look. I love the scene where they go out shopping and it's you know walking on sunshine and Bilby sitting on the on the city and O'Brien comes out and a bunch of different looks.

It's so great. Yeah. I mean, he basically got a shave and a little bit of a haircut and the Bilby suit. Yeah. And I was made into a joke later, like they took him to Bilby's tailor. Crowl doesn't is not impressed by Connelly's new look. He looks fine, but Bilby's really happy with it. Crowl is being a real butter burger about this.

We're set up to dislike him immediately. Yeah, I kind of kept wondering if like, if this episode was gonna start killing these guys off and trying to make us feel good about it. Or like make us feel more and more dangerous as the trap is closing in, right? Right, because it kind of goes in a very interesting direction with regard, like, as the trap is closing in, right? Right. Because it kind of goes in a very interesting direction

with regard, like, like, Bilbi seems like so thirsty for just like normal friendship. And O'Brien is such an aweshocks nice guy that he can't help but fall for that despite everything. Bilbi constantly talks about family being the most important thing, like we see a picture of them in the frame.

Yeah. And yet the relationship between them is very paternal from Bilby to O'Brien in a way that I always thought that there was a tragedy that had happened to Bilby's family that was about to be explained. Yeah, they're not really off on another planet. In fact, they got turned into cat food by Ramos. I have a sound that he would be about your age. Yeah. And on and on.

Yeah. But they just keep getting closer and closer. And this is like through events like the arms dealer showing up in the bar so that Bill can suggest he give him a refund and then murdering him instead. I think this scene is so necessary because like we've talked a long time about how kind Bill Beak has been to O'Brien, you sort of forget the danger until Bill Beek shoots this guy in the leg and then shoots him in the chest to kill him. I felt terrible for this guy because having loaf in front of your mouth opening is is rough enough and then he gets killed

It works fine now You get the sense that this happens all the time in this bar. Yeah Yeah, the the bullion just goes and gets a mop and bug it You never want to go to a bar with a floor drain. No and bug it. He never want to go to a bar with a floor drain. No. That's one of my rules. Yeah. You're either in a blade film or there's about to be some gangster shit going down. O'Brien is low key horrified at this, but he keeps it tight. There's no Maki'smo in O'Brien. You know, like even when he like starts meeting other gangsters, he's never like, he's never like puffing his chest out or anything He always looks like a little nervous like oh boy

Are we gonna meet this guy now? You know Kalamini has this gear in him, right? Like we've seen him in TNG when he was Remember when his body was taken by those aliens. I know who you are by those aliens. I know who you are. And I know what this is. Like you know he can go dark. And you know he can have swagger like, like, con air. This is fucking spectacular.

He can totally puff his chest out, but that's not how he's playing it in this. He's making interesting choices that cut against that, and it cuts toward the familial relationship that he's constructing with Bilbi. He's not impressing Bilbi with his bad asseree. He's getting close to him in a friendly way. Well, and because he's capable, like he's able to do things that Bilbi, like that didn't previously have anyone who was of a utility like this. And that's why Bill B is kind of off guard around him.

Like he opens up so fast. And that's something that the Starfleet Intelligence guy comments on and in this next scene is when Bill B like mentions the thing about, yeah, we've got a rat in Starfleet. And I thought that O'Brien kind of pushed his luck in this've got a rat in Starfleet. And I thought that O'Brien kind of pushed his luck in this scene. There's like Starfleet, you say, I don't believe it. Tell me more. Tell me the details of that. What's the guy's name and home address?

Happened to no social security number? There'll be like, but anyways, let's talk about other things. That should have peaked his interest a little more, that O'Brien was so curious in this moment. I think if this episode had been told across two episodes, you could have planted that in this scene and then had O'Brien kind of let that simmer for a long time before he asked another question, but we're already halfway through the app at this point. So we need to have things start happening.

The idea of the mole isn't just that it exists, is that this mole has given Rames the names of every undercover agent in Starfleet. And one wonders at this moment in time if O'Brien's is one of those names. Yeah, I think it's not because he's like, he's specifically not in Starfleet intelligence. And that's why they sent him here.

It's obviously not true, but I think it establishes a possibility that as long as there is a mole in Starfleet, the chances of O'Brien being outed have increased. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty devastating later in the episode when he gets the news that Kako and Molly have been murdered. And your mind immediately goes to this is Orion get back. And then it's like, no, they were just murdered senselessly for for no reason. Pretty dark. Yeah. And then we go to credits. One of the things O'Brien learns in peppering Bilby with questions about this rat is that

this person is in Starfleet and used to work weather control on Rysa. And my mind immediately went to, is the rat wharf? My mind went there too. And hey, let me ask you a follow-up question. Did you want it to be wharf? I kind of did. I did too. And hey, let me ask you a follow-up question. Did you want it to be worth? I kind of did. I did too. Like, I kind of feel like they could write their way into that having been an op that Warf was running on behalf of the Federation, Klingon Alliance. Like, they're being some serpentine way of getting out of that. But like,

getting worth in a huge amount of trouble at this point in the series would have been a really interesting turn. I think it would have been a great turn for his character and it unboring's him in a really great way. And it also like in the same way that we were talking about, you know, why would you have an undercover agent with all of these ties like a family. Yeah. Who is the other most untied person on DS9? I mean, the wedding to DAX notwithstanding. I mean, Wurf doesn't have ties. Right. He'd be great. He lobotomized all his ties.

I mean, what if that were it? Like, Kern being the final piece. Yeah. To get out of the way so that he could safely operate as a devil. Oh yeah, like they go back through every choice. Warf is made and it's all been like because he had to he had to cover his tracks. Yeah, I thought you said this medical procedure was for my benefit. We know from other episodes that secret agents can have their minds wiped and then re-established.

Why did you do it this way? I'll never be able to ask such a question because I could never remember to ask it. The episode that is just Kern as Kern in the movie Memento... Ha ha ha ha! Is the bottle episode that we need right now? Oh man, maybe that's the comic book we should do with JK Woodward. Hell yeah!

Remember! Sammy! J.C.S! I have a tattoo with important information on my chest, but I need to learn to read again every morning in order to understand what it says. I fucking love this idea of a one comic book series that's. Trying to piece it all together. Oh my God. The cover is Kern looking at himself in the mirror and all of the tattoos or backwards. Yeah.

Detective Kern. On Kronos. IDW, Holler at us. No one gets to steal it. It's us and JK doing this. Copyright trademark. Done. This idea featuring a character that is not our property.

So we were in this scene when they get a phone call from Ramos and they have to go back to the bar because it's not Bill B's apartment and it's not the alley. It's the other place to go. And they get their and Ramos beams in. I really loved the detail that Raymo's has like a really cool transporter effect that we've never seen before. The video game analogy is like, this seems like a thing that you pay extra for of the in-game money, you know?

Like you can have the regular transporter effect or if you really wanna grind out some herb farming or whatever, you can pay for the especially glowy one. Raymost gave Tom Nuck like 500,000 bells to get this transporter beam. Yeah. Some would argue against the value of it, but if you have it, you really appreciate it.

It's just cool. Yeah. Come to a fore, come to a fore, come to a fore, come to a fore. Come to a fore, come to a fore, come to a fore. What are you doing? Come to a fore, come to a fore, come to a fore. What are you doing now? Come to a fore, come to a fore. Come to a fore, come to a fore. So Raymost does that dramatic thing where he steps aside and introduces Bill B2, somebody else, and that somebody else is a Vorta. Yeah, it's the same Vorta that was communicating with the gem had are that took over the little D.

Gellenn, this is name. Absolutely, Rage. We got some great people. Permanently bored Gellenn. I think that there's maybe a couple too many Vorta characters in the mix now, because when he laid eyes on O'Brien, I was like, oh, fuck, he recognizes O'Brien.

I thought he was made too, yeah. Yeah, and then he just, it doesn't. And this show was made for airing in syndication on a weekly basis. Like I can't imagine that isn't where every single person's mind went when this happened, right? Yeah. You think they would write something about that, but...

Oh. There's a fun moment of security theater when Ramos asks Bill B. Huo Brian is in a... I don't recognize this member of the team. What the fuck? He's a friend of us. Yeah, and Bill B. Foulches. It's very mafia.

Is that the extent of your security precautions? Bill B. Witness for him. That's all that's necessary. It makes the border laugh, which I think is a thing that we don't see too often, right? If you say so. Right, because like, there is a comparison. I think that the vort makes eventually in this episode that the Dominion is set up very similarly to the Orion's end to get. But where the Dominion chooses to run security by genetically altering all its subjects to be fiercely and blindly loyal to the founders,

the Orion Syndicate just has an omerta thing where they, if somebody vouches for you, that's good enough for everyone. That thing about the Vorta remains true, and that is, like, the condescending thing about them is what makes you fear them. They are so confident. And the way that he's sort of laughing his way through the mission, a very important mission that he seems to be kind of like, blithely chill with. Laughing at its people, I think think is an example of this. The mission that Vorto wants them to do is to take those Klingon disruptors and whack

the Klingon ambassador. They talk through the math of this. The Klingon ambassador is anti-aliance with the Federation. It's going to look like Gauron was behind getting him killed. And therefore, it will like cause dissension to heat up in the, in the Klingon alliance. Right, because if you were to take the Klingons out of the alliance, it makes the federation easier to defeat. Right.

And I guess the Orion Syndicate has some deal with the Dominion that they'll be allowed to continue their criminal syndicate when the Dominion controls the Alpha Quadrant. That part is the part that goes unspoken, right? I find it hard to believe that that would be allowed, you know, like the Dominion are such fucking control freaks. Right. Maybe the Orion's have engaged in a little wishful thinking there. Billbe is a little freaked when everyone leaves because it seems sort of reflexive for him

to vouch for O'Brien, but now that it's over, he's having a little bit of regret. Voucher's remorse? He is, yeah. And well, he should because immediately O'Brien goes and meets with the intelligence contact and tells him about this evil plan and he's like cool so I found out who the Starfleet intelligence rat is and I found out about this worth it can I go home now and and dude is like no actually this has gotten a lot more complicated and we need you to we need you to stay the course while we figure this out.

This is the part of the app that felt the most Johnny Brasco to me. You know, like, he's gotten too close, doesn't want anything bad to happen to him. I haven't seen that movie in a long time, but those memories flooded right back, the Johnny Depp, Al Pacino relationship. Yeah, and Chadwick is like, what does forget about it mean?

And O'Brien has to kind of walk him through that. Sometimes it just means forget about. They knock over the bank of Bollius in the next scene. The bank of Bollius just keeps coming up in season six. I would argue that the bank of Bollyise is fairly easy to knock over because the Bank vault door has that seam right down the middle. That's where you put your crowbar, Ben. That's easy to pry apart.

Yeah. It's a very exciting scene, Ben, because what do we have here? It's a couple of guys screaming at another guy standing at ATM. And I think the tension of the scene is done extremely well for that being all that it is. Yeah, it's literally just four single close-ups of the three gangsters in O'Brien and somehow

you get all of the excitement of a bank heist out of it. It's sort of the perfect distillation of what tension is in TV and movies, right? Like we have all the components. We have all of those singles that you're talking about. We have a common goal and a great danger. We have the score and it's building in tempo and volume. Like it's exactly what you want. And what you want to do to celebrate after you rob a bank is have sex with a sex worker, which build be a ranges for Connolly.

This is the scene where you know Bill Bees of Free, great. This was the opportunity to have a green lady. Yes. Bill Bees doesn't want to fuck up his sheets, though. Instead, it's a very beautiful woman with the same loaf opportunity to have a green lady. Yes. Bilby doesn't want to fuck up his sheets, though. Instead, it's a very beautiful woman with the same loaf as several of the other characters. I also thought it was weird that the cat was on the same bed

that Bilby was inviting O'Brien to use for sex with this lady. I mean, I will say we are both, we're both animal owners and lovers. It is a thing. It is a thing every time to encourage the pet to leave. Right, right. I think that, I have never experienced this, but I think that it would be much more of a thing

if it was not my pet Like like your house sitting. Yeah, this is Bill B's cat not Connolly's cat Yeah, like Connolly is supposed to do the horizontal mambo with this prostitute while making a weird eye contact with Bill B's cat The fuck man, what the fuck yeah you sick sick fuck there is never even a suggestion that Bill be will leave Once this thing goes down either and I think he likes to watch you know he's a cat. Yeah You know he's gonna sit in the recliner with a with a snifter of Brandy and just yeah relax into this I don't want to you know what do you mean you don't want to? I brought a here for you. I appreciate that but what?

Somehow a Ryan Tox is way out of this. It's a miracle and yet it's totally a Ryan to be like friendly and like, oh, you're so beautiful. Like, I'm really glad you came over maybe some other time. Like, just consider it in that great way. Yeah. I mean, I also think it deepens the storyline about the fact that Bill B talks about O'Brien as like, my luck changed when I met you. I was at this level and pretty soon I'm going to be at this level. It started eight months. And already we're pulling in 50,000 a year in revenue.

The syndicate is giving me opportunities now. And I owe a lot of that to you. I'm going to bring you with me. And that's kind of the sin that Bill B commits, right, is that he is too trusting of Brian's fake character because he wants to believe in his own success. I think this is the thing that a lot of people who feel a sense of bad luck tend to do is like they grasp toward the big, lucky thing, thinking that it'll be the one chance they have to turn it all around. Like this is the gambler's fallacy.

I've been in the ball kicking machine forever. It actually encourages you to take more chances. Like this is the moment that's going to change everything and it's the same for Bilby. Yeah. So after O'Brien turns down the sex worker, he again meets with Starfleet intelligence and Chadwick's like, let me smell your fingers. I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying your assignment. Chadwick's like, yeah, we just want to schedule more public meetings between you and me so

that there was just the maximum possible opportunity for the Orion to send a kit to catch on about what's happening here. Chadwick's like, you have kind of a lot of green stuff on your lapel. There's no need to explain, I've been undercover. Is there anything I need to tell your wife? Yeah, O'Brien is full on feeling bad about Bilby at this point. Like, he understands the dismissal might be coming to an end,

but he wants to make sure Bilby's gonna be okay.. And Chad looks like, look, man, this mission is not about making sure Billbe is okay. This mission is about making sure Billbe is imprisoned or worse, along with the rest of the people who work with him in this endicate. Like, keep yourself on mission, man. Because like, they're like, right after, in the bar, planning this mission to go assassinate the Klingon Ambassador. And also, one of Bill B's dudes gets shot because I think it's Fliith that gets shot for having run a side hustle and not paid his protection money to to Bilby. Right. Uh, therefore couldn't pay it to Ramos. Like the stakes are really high and you need to keep shooting people in this episode, right?

Yeah. Like killing the gun runner, killing Flith is all stuff that O'Brien is looking past because he thinks Bilby is a nice family man at his core that is like stuck in a bad situation. The way he explained to Chadwick is like, he's a nice family man. He has a cat and he likes to watch me have sex with people. Like, it's fine. Sounds like you've really got your hooks into him.

He just sits there with a snifter of brandy, his cat in his lap, and that big picture of his family in his other hand, watching me have sex and I just respect a guy like that. You know, I've been in Starfleet a long time. I could do with a few more billbys if you ask me. It's not you, hey, hate Starfleet Intelligence guy. It's the sex freak you've made me become. Yeah, you know, when I was on the Rutledge, like Captain Maxwell was the only other man I ever knew who it

Actually enjoy watching me have sex I mean you could say it's it's sort of a dragon. I've been chasing ever since I'll never forget it He would just sit in the corner and sing Thus old your boy to the war has come boy to the war has come. And and come he would. Yeah, he always hit the post on that, you know, he somehow knew when I was about to pop. Chadwick just like walks backwards back into the shadow. Disgusted. So yeah Chadwick has to kind of talk some sense into O'Brien because O'Brien is like, you're gonna let Bill be my best friend in the world get murdered. And Chadwick is like, hey, like these guys picked this life. Like, that doesn't sound very starfleet, does it?

Yeah, that's the thing is like not believing the worst in people is one of Starfleet's weakest, but also one of its strongest points. And I guess we don't really know that much about what life is like for humans outside of the Federation, but you would think that there would be some kind of worldview moment in here where this guy could kind of put it in terms that Chief O'Brien could understand, and that would illuminate something about why the Orion Syndicate exists in this future. Right. I really like this episode, and I think there's a lot of really fun stuff in it.

But I that felt like a really big hole and a really big missed opportunity to me. I think it's related to the how did O'Brien get himself into the situation. How was he groomed? Right. How are these decisions made? Like, this is all handy backstory stuff. They do not reach an agreement here. Chadwick says like you've got to just let this run

its course and O'Brien responds to this by punching his lights out and running back. It'll be so far. Once he gets to the apartment he is summarily arrested by Starfleet intelligence and the Ronan Federation prison and that's the end of the episode. and the throne in Federation Prison, and that's the end of the episode. ["The End of the Episode"] Yeah, we just cut to him 15 years later with a great bushy beard. Yeah.

He's making a mandala in the dust on the floor. What actually happens is, O'Brien is back at Bilby, he's trying to explain Star Wars to him. He's like, it's a trap, Bilby. It's a great big trap. You shouldn't go through with this mission. You can't go.

Why not? Bilby does not react in the way that you might think. He's not grateful for being tipped off. He is horrified at the betrayal and how fucked he is, because no matter what he does, he's fucked. Like, he's either going to jail or going to be killed by the Orion's. I really like how he lists every possible outcome here.

Right. Like, he can't run because there's no escape. If you go through with the thing the Klingons are gonna kill you. If you choose prison, prison only saves yourself and not your family. And those are the only three outcomes to this thing. He has been brutally betrayed and he blames himself.

He talks about that wishful thinking thing and how it kind of blinded him to the truth. And the truth was that everything O'Brien was selling him was kind of too good to be true. Phil, he told himself he was over him. He pretended his ship wasn't sinking. He told himself he was over O'Connell because he is the king of wishful thinking then. Yeah. This is maybe my favorite part of this episode is that O'Brien makes the case as strongly as he can, like that this is a suicide mission.

And Bill Bees like, take care of my cat for me. And he walks out the door. And what I love is you don't know which of the three options he chose. Right. And you never know. Yeah, the next scene is O'Brien downloading kind of the emotional toughness of this with Dr. Bashir and his quarters. And he's not even changed out of his clothes

or anything. Like that's asoon he has this hang with him. Yeah, he's like, boy, I gotta, I gotta unload some shit on you, my friend. You ever do that thing when you come back from a place and a friend completely innocently has called you as soon as your suitcases hit the ground? Like, I just need a moment. Yeah, yeah. That is not this year. No.

Yeah, I wonder about that. Chief of Brian is a creature of starship travel. So maybe being on the station is the opposite for him. Like maybe he felt like more at home on the trip back. Yeah. Various must be really close to Deep Space 9 though, right? Like it wasn't a multi-day trip. He didn't change clothes.

This was a chance to really illuminate a little bit more about Starfleet intelligence. Like how did O'Brien get to and from farious? Was it a really cool Starfleet intelligence ship? Did they have to smuggle him in with some cargo? Like a murdered out galaxy class. Yeah, how did he get dropped in there? And then how did he get squirreled away? And then, then what did Chadwick do about getting punched in the face? Yeah, well he didn't he didn't put it in his report and uh, no that was nice of him Yeah, I mean you got to cut the guy a little slack. O'Brien is not an intelligence officer

I mean this happens all the time the the person under cover doesn't get in trouble for doing the blow Right is O'Brien gonna have a cat going forward? I don't know, this seems like an extremely long hair cat that would get your allergies up. Yeah, if you're allergic to cats, this is not the cat to have. How good are the HEPA filters on DS9? That's my question. Did you notice there was like a little camera bump

when Bashir exited and the camera kind of lands on the cat when Bashir walks out of the room. But it bumps like somebody like walked past the panhandle and like knocked it a bit. No shit, I'm gonna dial that up. I really love that stuff. It's like 43 minutes and 40 seconds or so. 40 seconds or so. Ooh. Hahaha. Almost as if they were expecting the cat

to make the move before it did. Yeah, like the camera. That's what it is. Yeah. There's an animal wrangler off camera that has made the move like the call to cat. Yeah. And what the camera person did was they twitched.

They twitched. God, you know, you know that must have taken 40 takes to get. Right, and this was the best one. The one. I know. One with a visible mistake was their best take. Never work with animals or children. Would you work with this episode, Ben? Did you like it? I like the episode. Yeah, I think it's fun. It's like a unique challenge in the context of a show where there's a war going on to put an episode in a bottle like this, but I really like how it ties in to the war. It gives you another dimension of it that you might never see that is like interesting and scary and I thought it was a good showcase for

Kalamini. Like he's doing really like interesting stuff with the choices he makes in this episode. So I do like it. I like it because it's a Kalamini bottle episode and I like it as a type of format. It feels like in seven seasons of a show every single character could and should get this episode. The undercover rep. Yeah. And I think Kalamini does this ably in a way that I really appreciate. It seems like he's been kind of a peripheral character for a while and he was deserving of his episode at this moment in time. So I'm glad we got it. Absolutely. A lot of questions in the periphery about like,

why this is happening and why this is happening to him, but if you push those away, I think there's a lot to enjoy here. Yeah, which you should. One thing I learned about this episode is that the actor who played Bilby was not the first choice. Oh, wow. And the actor who was the first choice died of a heart attack

the week before shooting. Whoa! Like they basically had to go to their second choice, which is hard, man. Fuck. Nick Tate was the actor who who played Liam Bilby, Charles Hallahan, who was a real Hollywood that guy. Like he's been in a thousand things, was originally cast as Bilby, and you know would have been great, but you just never expect this kind of challenge for an actor, like an actor to like, all right, well I didn't get it, like hats off to Charles Hallehan, but to then get field promoted to getting it because Charles Hallehan dies the week of the shoot is just so brutal. And I think Nick Tate did a great job

and just knowing that that was going on behind the scenes is incredible to think about. So like hats off to him for doing great in the role. Like if you didn't know that bit of trivia, I think you would on its own, like you would appreciate his work here. But just knowing that there was that of trivia, I think you would on its own like you would appreciate his work here But just knowing that there was that added challenge, I think yeah I think really makes it makes it better in terms of that it sort of reminds me like from a level of difficulty

standpoint of the actor that played Kevin X bridge and what he was going through when he was Portraying a man whose wife had died right after his wife died. Like you and I were joking a couple episodes ago where they kept beaming up people who weren't Epidensis go on the rescue mission like Everyone thought Charles Hallahan was gonna be the guy. I was Stephen bear like hand picked him like he was I was guy And then to show up on set knowing that you're not the guy and you still need to act the part that's really hard. I can't

unimagin that so a special commendation to Nick Tate here. That did a great job. You know what else deserves special commendation Adam is the folks that get priority on messages on our show. Do you want to see if we have any in the inbox? Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement on that. A supplement?

A supplement. A supplement. Yes, extra. But the interest alone could be enough to buy this ship. Ben are first priority on is from Vicki. And it is for John. And the message goes like this to my darling, Shmue. I'm not even a little bit embarrassed to be shelling at 100 bucks on this dumb podcast

to say happy 10th anniversary. Because I love you. Wow. Ben and Adam have brought us a little closer. Wow, Vicki, thanks for the faint praise. Thank you for being the best husband to me and a fantastic father to our irrational biped. It has been and always shall be your drunk Shimoda. Wow, I just picked your ass pushing John and Vicki

a little bit closer to each other. Yeah, I mean you and I aren't watching. No. We're pushing John and Vicki together and then we're leaving the room. We're not gonna be like Bilby. No. I'll tell you that much. Our second priority one message is from Dylan and that's to Stephen and it goes like this.

Stephen of House MRD, Trump Bones! You have brought dishonor to this house. It is time for you to pay the ultimate price. Watch all of Star Trek Enterprise with me once you move to Richmond until you find appreciation for its theme song. Otherwise I will cut a hole in the shape and size of Stephen. Into Stephen. Also, Happy Birthday.

Yeah, just a little happy birthday tag on the back there. Yeah. I almost forgot. I have a terrible memory. Who knows why? Why do people keep requesting messages from me? I don't remember. This is one of those P1s that was obtained in February and I wonder if moving to Richmond is still a thing that Stephen is doing or not. So many things you wonder about these days. Well, if you'd like to send us a P1 to scratch our nagins about, head to MaximumFun.org slash JemboTron.

It's a hundred bucks for a personal message and 200 bucks for a commercial message. And we really appreciate the financial support. Hey Adam. Step in. Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? Drunk Shimoda! I feel like a lot of people could be the drunk Shimoda this episode but I'm kind of going with Chadwick because what are you doing Chadwick?

Just what are you even doing? What are you doing hangingwick? Just, just what are you even doing? What are you doing hanging out in the alley? What are you doing picking O'Brien? Where do you go? Chadwick's op-sec is terrible. I mean, you could explain it away by thinking that maybe he has a substance abuse problem and he was given shit detail, unfairious, you know? Aside from running the undercover agent

that is Chief O'Brien, does Chadwick have any other things going on throughout the week? Sure, it doesn't seem like it. It seems like he's just waiting around in that alley, kind of a lot. Yeah. What have I you've been? My Drunk Shermota is Chester the Cat.

We are given one character trait of Chester in this episode does not like people sitting in his chair. No. And then it never comes up again. Come on Chester, defend that chair. I didn't exactly do research on this episode, but I get the sense that Chester was a very difficult cat. Yeah Chester looks like kind of a pip. Also, sort of a terrible legacy for Bilby to give his cat to O'Brien, kind of revenge if you ask me. Yeah. Care of a stranger's cat, the ultimate revenge in my personal opinion. You don't want Molly digging around in that cat box. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss.

Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweards. Pat Noswald.

Could I get a Balrog burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps already open. Just pull it out.

Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Oh, rats, hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in mine. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line. And boy, what do I, these giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks.

But I'm here and we need to get on this. So, we gotta get on the ark. It is about terrain not, and they've such short neck. But I'm hearing we need to get on this. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. Oh, we're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different.

Have you heard of Ono Ross and Kerry? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came to you by two. What do you think? Ona Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. All right Adam, I think it is time for us to select our next episode and it's time for you to roll that bone and tell us how we will be consuming the next episode.

Oh shit, all right, let's do the thing. The next episode atom is season six, episode 16, Change of Heart. When DAX is seriously injured during a crucial mission, Wurf must question his priorities. So DAX was in a cargo bay and an item on a tall shelf fell down and landed on her back. Yeah, and she's begging Wf to end her life with honor. And it's just not sure if it has...

What it's gonna take. Worf really understands that feeling. You're required to learn as you play, Role. All right, Ben. I have taken the die into my hands. Currently, we are on square 56 which up until these unusual times was a looking at each other during episode and is now a canar with tomorrow episode. Six episodes ahead is a space butthole and Ben if I remember

correctly this was the one that took us all the way back down. Oh yeah. Square to square 18. That is a familiar butthole. What you don't want to do right now is call your ex buttholes. The comfort and the familiar may be there, but always a bad idea when you're feeling a little vulnerable. As we are. Yeah. All right, man, let's roll. Good thing I rolled it too. Tula!

Did I win? Harbing. That puts us on square 58. No where close to the space butthole of square 62. And that means, of of course that it will be a regular old episode for us. That's great. I am looking forward to Reg App.

Wow, this was super fun. If people enjoy the program and would like to support it in the meantime, please head to maximumfun.org slash join. If you'd like to support in a free way, you could recommend the show to a friend or leave us a nice review on Apple Podcast. If you ask a question on Apple Podcast, maybe we'll answer it on an upcoming Marin. Yeah, that's the thing we like to do from time to time. We do. We got to thank our buddy Adam Ragusio who made all the custom theme music for the show. Of course, he based his work on the original Picard song by Dark Materia. But Adam Ragusio has gone on too bigger and much better things since then.

He is now the proprietor of a smash hit YouTube cooking channel. To search Adam Ragusio on YouTube, he'll teach you how to cook good food. Yeah, why don't you get better at cooking? Adam will help you. He will. Not me, the other one, the better one. The other, the good Adam. Friend of the Soto, Bill Tilly will post comedy trading cards about this very episode

if you go to Twitter and look up Bill Tilly in 1973. Yeah, you could use the hashtag GreatestGen on Twitter. Adam is on there at Cut for Time, I'm at Benjamin AHR. And with that, we'll be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek Deep Space 9. And an episode of the Greatest Generation Deep Space 9. Which has a staying away from cargo I'm a big fan of you.