The Greatest Generation - Spit Roast Big Dogging (S7E12)

Episode Date: August 16, 2017

When an Admiral from Starfleet Intelligence comes aboard, the Entrepreneur has to cut its holiday celebration short. But Riker’s misgivings about the mission and the man leading it boil over when a terrible, and very un-Roddenberry secret is uncovered. Is the Hood the Siberia of Starfleet? What is the top Riker? How is the Federation going to smooth this over with the Romulans? It’s the episode where Adam and Ben go to war with each other.

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the greatest generation. It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast.

I'm one of those guys. My name is Benjamin R. Harrison. My name is Adam Pranica. How are you doing today, Adam? In what is sort of a trend, never been busier. We were just talking off-mic about like, being busy sucks. I'm fuck being busy. I would so much rather be pumping out shows and shows be the only thing.

But God damn it, this is the third job, the third different job I've had today. I subscribed to a list serve here in New York of people that work in radio. And somebody was on there looking for people that they could talk to about what it's like to have three jobs. And I think that they were looking for people that they could talk to about what it's like to have three jobs. And I think that they were looking for people who, you know, are very economically disadvantaged

and have to have three jobs to make rent and stuff. Right. Which is not really my case, but I was like, ugh, kind of feel like I have that. Yeah, it us. It us. It us. That me. Ben, I have a proposition for you. Would you like to play a game?

Uh-oh. What's the game, Adam? You can keep your keys in your pocket. This isn't that kind of game. Okay, good. I was just thinking about these decks of cards that Sarus Farvar gave us. These... Oh yeah, Sarus Farvar sent us some Star Trek customizable card game decks. Yeah, and while I... I was still in the cellophane because I don't know anybody that plays this game.

You and me both. And while I know these are not playing cards, this idea hit me while I was walking around, which was like, have you ever been to a casino and seen that casino table game called War? I'm not familiar with it. Is it anything like the regular card game war where you just flip them over? It is absurdly exactly like that. The dealer deals you a card and deals themselves a card and then the high card wins. It's stupidly fast and amazing. They're like, Baccarot is insufficiently based solely on luck and also too complicated. So. Right. So my thought was like,

what if we opened up one of these decks, turned it upside down, and then played Star Trek War, like best out of three cards. Like, see, you've got the better card card as voted on by us, I think we'll be honest with each other about like who's got the best card. We'll do one round, two round, third round, and then it'll be like best out of three, like who has the best two out of three cards. Okay. Alright? I'm in, do it. Okay, I'm going to open my deck. Where's more? There's been no formal declaration of war. And this trick you'll bring us some luck. That nonsense is centuries behind us. Why?

How do you know that? Why? How do you know that? Why? How do you know that? This is a Star Trek. The next generation customizable card game, 80 card starter set, white border addition.

Do we know what white border edition means? I don't think we have any idea what any of this means. You watch the first three cards we flip over just gonna be like... They're just gonna be mana, right? They're gonna be a forest mana. Yeah, oh shit, now there's an interior thing. There's so much cellophane here. I know, it's so wasteful.

I have a weird booklet in mind, do you? Yeah, I think that's how you play. Okay, do you want to shuffle them? I'm shuffling, baby. I'm shuffling. Do you trust me to cut my own deck, Adam? I'm just going to do that thing where I tap on the top of your deck and that basically means good enough Okay, we have a couple of shuffled decks. Are you ready to flip over your first card? I am ready All right three two one flip

Oh boy I Have doctor Farrick the the the Firingy Medical Officer. Is that the guy that was torturing Lwaxana? Yeah, he beamed her out of her clothes. Well, interesting. I have Hannah Bates, genetically engineered scientist from Moab4, granted asylum aboard USS Enterprise in 2368. What are her things?

Integrity, cunning and strength, or the qualifications I have? Her integrity is six. Her cunning is eight, and her strength is two. Well, I think you beat me on integrity because I'm 28 and three on all those things. So I think you beat me on integrity because I'm two eight and three on all those things. So I think I think Hannah is the winner of round one. And numerical winner for Hannah Bates. And numerical if not subjective winner because I think I probably would have voted for her too.

Yeah fuck for rings. All right ready to flip the next card? It's just the next card, right? We're not shuffling it. No, no, let's do it. Three, two, one, flip. Oh boy. I have a starship, Ben. I have USS Excelsior. You're gonna need a ship to be able to beat me. I think I have you beat, to be honest. No! I have a space dock. Oh god damn it.

And it's wrapped around a starship. It looks like one of the Honda Dell Soul class starships in this particular picture. Oh man. I don't know. You can challenge my assessment. It's the kind of crabby looking one where the arms kind of wrap around. I mean, I guess we should decide, like, is one of the qualifications deciding what could destroy the other thing?

Yeah, like, SpaceDoc definitely doesn't win enough fight. Yeah, that's just it. And I'm not sure if Doctor What's her name kills Doctor Faric in a fight either. So I guess maybe we should just choose what our favor it is. Yeah. I don't know, man. Which starship do you have? Excelsior.

I have USS Excelsior, otherwise known as a Hood class starship as we've retconned the starship lines. Yeah, I guess we have done that. Well, I'll give you the W on that. I think you're right that the spaceship having has an advantage over the space stock. Are we ready to flip our final card out? Yeah, let's do it. Tied at one.

This is the tie breaker. Three, two, one. Flip. You go first this time. I have a dilemma. My dilemma at him is Shaka when the walls fill. God damn it. That's going to be tough to be.

It says you must have two diplomacy and greater than 30 cunning to communicate and proceed. You may think that that's a pretty great card. Ben. But the card I have is for Vekma. You might remember her as the Klingon female who propositions Will Riker when he did the Klingon exchange student project on the Pach. She was the one given Riker the IJM as well. He was eaten. She was like oh I I gotta give me some of that.

I gotta find me a Starfleet officer who can do both. Mmm. She really had no idea what she was getting herself into. No idea she was a medical officer though. That's good trivia. Oh. Who knew? Yeah.

I don't know, so is it your dilemma or mine? Pfft. Are yours is also a dilemma card? No, it is a... I'm calling it a dilemma because it was what riker faced in that exact moment. Boy Adam Do you want to call this a draw and flip one more? Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. Let's go until we're sure. Let's go until something comes out. Three, two, one. Oh, man. I have Fleet Admiral Shanti. Fleet Admiral Shanti authorized a blockade of Romulan forces covertly supporting the Klingon Civil War in 2368. This is a woman that is coming in with a

massive nine integrity, six cunning and four strength at him. I think you got me beat here Ben because my card is for a dilemma and it is archer. One of the indigenous and men talk in inhabitants that shoots an arrow. So I don't know if aggression wise we could be more opposite in someone who has their finger on the button of a starship or moda and a guy with a bow and arrow. Yeah, one has several planet killings at her fingertips and the other can harm an elk. Well, fun to play a different card game with you Ben. I don't know if this one will stick around, but it was neat to revisit some of our favorite characters and situations. Yeah, that was great. Good idea, Adam.

Yeah, I think it's good to call back a gift, too. That was one of the great gifts, one of many gifts that's through Sfar-of-Arts given us. So, thanks, pal. Thank you. Alright, well, I think reintroducing ourselves to some previous characters might be a good segue into the episode we're talking about today, Ben, because there's some deep callbacks going on in season 7, episode 12, the Pegasus. This is a pretty legendary show open at him.

Captain Picard Day. I thought the last year the teachers had agreed that they wouldn't do this anymore. Captain Picard Day is one of the children's favorite school activities. They look forward to it all year. Let's just brainstorm what Captain Picard Day could be. And let's also talk about what it is. It's the setting is the observation lounge. Yeah, I mean, we don't really see everything that it is because that's what I'm saying. Yeah, the observation lounge and it's, there's like a banner and lots of art submissions.

Picard has to judge what the best art is. What you don't see is that cardboard standy, like that three panel cardboard stand for a science fair. There aren't any of those on the table, unfortunately. There isn't the report on Picard as a borg. who's the kid that's gonna step out on the legend go yeah Picard's pretty cool and everything but remember when he almost killed us like who's the emo kid doing that one everybody knows the captain Picard is a great leader and the head of the ship, but what my project presupposes is, maybe he's a terrible villain?

It's so true. There's like a paper mache head, like there's a bust on the table that looks terrifying. It's like sub Alexander quality arts and crafts here, I think is what we're seeing. Yeah, I always wonder how the kids artwork in movies and television is generated, because there's something kind of un-mimicable about it. Yeah. I think adults just conceive of how to put a mark on a page in a different

way. And like the kid, this is like really plausible children's artwork. And it's great. Like I kind of wonder if it's just like stuff that kids sent in over the years. Yeah, sometimes you'll have someone like, for instance, read a letter that's supposed to be from an eight year old boy, you know, praising a leader in a way that doesn't sound credible or believable. And you can tell sometimes when things like that have been crafted by an adult person, making it sound like a child. I will look at this. The entries for Captain Picard Day were sourced from two local elementary schools and the children of the pro-master Alan Sims. So we've got authentic kids stuff here that's great. Captain message is authentic.

I concur sir. I agree. Messages authentic. Those poor kids there were probably ostracized. Not long after this right? Hey kids want to do something for TV. Yeah! I want to do something for Star Trek. Boo! Freaks is really fucking loving this scene though. He's having so much fun. He's the best he does. Like he has permanently one raised eyebrow. Yeah, it's like just stapled up to the top of his hairline. Yeah, yeah, he's fantastic. And he actually does an impression. Yeah, which I love.

It seemed to have a...somebody exaggerated impression of me. I don't know, I think the resemblance to other striking. Wouldn't you agree, number one? But if he'd done some of the numerous impressions that we do, Adam, what if he'd done a quarter-life crisis, Batman? What would that sound like? I'm sure it would be great. Yeah, me too. The thing about all of our impressions is that none of them are difficult. That's why we keep doing them. doing them. Well Picard is tasked with selecting winners in the Captain Picard Day art contest

and Reiker and Troy have left the room when he gets a facetime from an admiral who has a kind of a cryptic project for him. There to rendezvous with the Starship Crazy Horse and pick up somebody from Starfleet Intelligence who's going to brief them on what they're doing. The Crazy Horse is, of course, a hood class starship. And that's exciting. That is exciting. It also contains one of Riker's old commanding officers.

Right, and this is not Captain DeSoto. I was so crushed that it wasn't him. But I understand. Admiral DeSoto. DeSoto is way down the block, doing his own thing. Yeah. He has that thing, what's I called the attached duty? He's unpermanently attached duty.

They're like, you know, DeSoto, like, it's pretty improbable that you ever achieved the rank of captain. So don't look a gift to a shana mouth. Enjoy it, you know? Like, don't, you know, don't act like you're going to get elevated to the admiralty anytime soon. The best you can do is just keep quiet and mind your own business. Yeah.

If you don't make a problem for us, we won't make any problems for you. This admiral on the FaceTime, it's like sort of sees the banner behind Picard. Captain Picard, day. And Picard is forced to demure about it. Oh, yes, it's for the children. Inductournating the children of the ship, huh Picard? That's great. I'm a role model.

I'm sure you are. What I sort of hope she had done has gone like, Jesus, you must have hundreds and hundreds of children on board your ship if there's that much art being generated. Maybe we should rethink this whole policy. He's the card is just forced to be like, he sort of like shrugs his shoulders and he's like, yeah, it's not really something that I planned on doing, but the kids love me. Can't break those children's hearts that's for sure. No. They take on Admiral Pressman from Starfleet Intelligence who is played by a real television that guy, Terrio Quinn. Boy is he. He's such a that guy and he's such a chameleon

that like most people I think would recognize Terrio Quinn from last. But he looks nothing like lost, erotario Quinn in this show. He really doesn't. He is, I mean, not that he's overweight and lost, but he is, he looks tall and thin and like, he has hair, he looks tan, like he is a number of things

that he is not in lost. And you sort of lose the thread on him. He really just, as, you know what great TV show that guys do is disappear into their characters and you sort of lose where Terry O'Hryt, where Terry O'Kwin begins and Eric Pressman ends. Like he's great at that. I think he's fabulous in this part and he is there to oversee an operation to recover

a ship that he was the captain of and Riker was the helmsman of. He was the first commanding officer that Riker ever had. Well, a batch of never thought to see me again. It's so weird to think about Riker as an insom. Yeah, young dumb and so full of cubs, it's almost unbelievable. God, you know, like who was puberty worse for Riker or everyone around Riker? There was any usable gym sock in the county when Riker was growing up. He'll really challenge your plumbing. He better put two measures of tide in that low to wash, Kyle.

That really began the whole estrangement between Kyle Reiker and Will Reiker. Just the... God, do I have to wash everything four times? When is this boy gonna be old enough to do his own laundry? What? What? What? It's a... I can beat him at Anbo Jitsu,

but turn about, always happens when it's time to clean up. Kyle Riker is like jamming the top of a top load closed washer with an an Bochu-Jitsu Q-Tip just plunging. Like that's while we're smippin' on here, Ben, that could be a new shirt. Like Kyle Riker's Fluffin' Fold laundry. It's just him standing over a top load clothes washer like Lundger style with the Ambo Jujitsu stick. Face mask down for protection. Yeah. As soon as Pressman beams onto the ship, you know, it's sort of like the thing where you see an X-Boss after a long time, and you

fall into that same pattern of like, he's still the boss, you are still lesser than. Riker is the man about town, the varsity crewman of the ship, and as soon as pressmen's on board, pressmen is not a big man, but Riker looks diminished just by his presence. It's the way that Riker plays it, that sells this. And this is a Lovar Burton directed episode. And I think that there are some really, really strong directing in this,

both in the kind of performances he's getting out of the characters, but also like some framing decisions. Because when you've got a man as big as Jonathan Freaks, getting big-dogged from two different directions the way he is in this episode, I feel like there is temptation. There's a real spitt roast big-dogging happening here, right?

Yeah, there's a temptation to frame it so that he's not the big man in the scene, but he's generally speaking framed bigger than the people he's bigger than. Terio Quinn is six two. How tall do you think Freak's is six four? That's a big man. Yeah, that's a tall drink of gum. It does a body good. Well, they head to the system that the Pegasus, this missing ship, has last been spotted in.

And I guess they have some intel that the Romulans found a piece of it. So their goal is to salvage the ship if they can, but if they cannot, their goal is to destroy it so that the Romulans won't get their hands on it. And that's all they know. So they head off and they pull up to a field of asteroids. This is going to be them hunting through asteroids trying to find this thing. Pretty spectacular setting for this episode. I think we've seen asteroid fields before, but not in a long time. And, you know, there are a lot of scenes where there's incidental asteroid field out the window.

Yeah. It's really beautiful. It's great. It kind of looks like the asteroid field from Empire Strikes Back. Yeah. It's not long after they arrive that they get on FaceTime with the local patrolling Romulan warbird. Like, they pull into the system and, and pressmen is like, the Romulans are here. Like, they're not gonna show themselves, but they're here and then the Romulans are like, hey, how are you guys doing?

I am commander Cyril of the Romulan Vessel Terrics. I don't know whether you want to talk about this or not, Ben, but I think it feels, it felt significant at the time that this is a black Romulan. Yeah, I didn't know that black Romulan was a thing. It's only significant in that I don't think we've ever seen one before. There's no reason there shouldn't be a black Romulan as my point. Sure. I mean, you know, we know in the future that there are black Vulcans.

So it establishes that continuity. Right. Yeah, and I sort of wondered when this guy popped on screen if this is a decision that Lava Burton made in casting. Yeah, I wondered the same thing. I mean, but, you know, whatever a Romulan's sub race maybe this guy is just as smart me and condescending as any of the others we've seen on this show,

he is peak passive aggressive. Yeah, he's fucking great. And they kind of like retread some classic repartee of like, oh, we're just here doing science. We are conducting a survey of gaseous anomalies. How interesting. So are we. We could work together the way we always say we're going to,

but never actually do. He kind of has those stare off in the in the middle distance dead eyes of a James Earl Jones from the first Conan movie. Steve isn't a strong boy, flesh is stronger. Yeah. He's very affecting in the eyes in a real unique way to me. And like you say, they're doing that thing where it'd be a shame if something fucked up happened to your ship. Well, good luck with your science mission, like that sort of thing.

Well, you wouldn't want to damage you. Oh, I don't think that will be a problem. Yeah, like always a slap fight with the Romulans. My love is the people of Logan Jill, of a battle which longed a nurse has let me see. Tell me more, you're not the boy yet. With the close presence of the Romulans established, the entrepreneur begins its search. And it's going to be a tough search because the system has like ionizing radiation all over it. There's lots of big rocks that they have to poke around.

So yeah, I mean, and also just the sheer multitude of different asteroids in the field. Like this is, this is a great big pile of rocks, they need to sift through. Yeah. And, um, and you want to do it in such a way that you don't call attention to the ones that you find interesting, right? So there's like that game going on. Yeah. Speaking of not wanting to call attention to yourself, Riker and Pressman head down to 10 forward and have a very secrety chat in the most public part of the ship. Yeah, I mean, this sort of cuts both ways, right? Like, sometimes if you're having a secret chat, you want to go to a place where there's

a lot of traffic and noise, but 10 forward is always library quiet, except if there's a fist fight happening. I mean, maybe they're like perloined lettering. Like, we won't look like we're having a covert chat before just... Yeah, if it's out in the open. Here talking to each other. Mm-hmm.

But it's clear that like, Riker has a lot of, I mean, we've already established it, but Riker has misgivings about seeing Pressman and misgivings about the mission that they are on. And he is getting ordered to kind of keep his mouth shut about the thing that he and Pressman know that nobody else knows. And they're giving us very little to go on.

There are references to an incident wherein Ryker had to choose sides. And there's just sort of an obliqueness to what they're talking about, to where you sort of get a general understanding that Riker was caught up in something that at the time he didn't quite understand. Pressmen has ever since sort of regarded him in a good way. has ever since sort of regarded him in a good way.

Right. And it's unclear as to whether or not Riker owes him anything for that. At least that's how I felt in the first half of the episode. Like, is the reason that Riker is so tight lipped about this because like, without Presman, he wouldn't be where he is. This episode is so operatic about the conflict that Riger is facing. Yeah.

It's this Swiss watch of loyalty and duty and the oath that he swore and the actions he regrets and how does he redeem himself? It's really intense. The admiral has not gotten sufficiently trashed with Riker, so he goes to a second location, which is Picard's ward room, and they're hammering some brandy. And they're talking about this. like, like, pressmen, it's like, why is Riker your first officer in Picard's like, well, I read this thing about when he was on the hood, he like openly defied something that DeSoto wanted to do. And I like that he puts his judgment ahead of his career. Pressmen's like, well, yeah, not a lot of people agree with the way DeSoto does things. That's why he's on the hood. And it's probably the only way you get off the hood if you get assigned to it, right?

The hood is like the Siberia of Starfleet. Yeah. That is the same that you do not want sometimes. Yeah, that is the same that you do not want sometimes. And like, the next scene is Riker in Six Bay with a batleth injury from the holodeck. And it's like, it's almost as if this scene is a metaphor. Well, it's all right. We made a mistake, no harm done.

It'll be better next time. Yeah, maybe. It's almost as if this scene is just about trying to figure out how long Riker could walk through the ship with an open rope. Yeah, he's saying things like I got distracted and the doctor's like, it can happen to anybody and he says, I knew what I was supposed to do and he says, I knew what I was supposed to do and I didn't do it. Riker is really globalizing this pretty normal injury

it seems like. Yeah, Dr. Beverly thinks they're talking about one thing and Riker knows they're talking about something else. I'd be distracted too, you know, if Riker William T walked through my door with that much chest hair on display, I don't think I would be picking up on subtleties. He basically has a high top fate of chest hair, like it is, it is like uniform and bushy and it goes fully hemisphere to hemisphere. It controls the vertical and the horizontal bend.

It controls the vertical and the horizontal bend. So the search goes on, yeah? Search goes on, they find something promising in an asteroid. And they're like, they like tiptoe up to it, but the Romulans notice that they've gotten interested in this rock, so they like dump a bunch of radiation on it to conceal what might be within it and get out of there. It's like two kids fighting over candy and one of them licks the candy. Like yeah, totally.

I got this one. Yeah, they lick the cookie, Adam. Yeah. And then it's just like, it's a lot of like, brinksmanship for the rest of the middle of the episode. Like, Riker trying to stand up to Pressman. I recommend we destroy the asteroid.

Pressman, big-dogging Riker. I thought it was more important that the Romulet last time. Well, you were wrong! And Picard, like, catching Riker in the fact that there is something like pretty dirty in his past with Pressman. Mutiny? A Federation Starship, that's shocking, it's unthinkable. Yeah, and it's not just that it's dirt, it's that Riker would seek to conceal that from his commanding officer after being pretty directly asked about it.

And yet you've never mentioned it. No, sir. It's one of those things where the cover-up is worse than the original initial crime at this point. To Picard. It's a real Iran-Contra situation. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not.

And Picard goes so far as to say, if what you're not telling me ends up jeopardizing the shipper, the crew, then I might have to think about who I want to be my first officer, like sort of drops that bomb on him. Boom, we can't get fooled again. Because what he found is like the record of a court martial that took place when pressmen and riker

and the like handful of people that survived the destruction of the Pegasus the punitive destruction of the Pegasus when they got back to earth they told starfleet that there was a mutiny on board and starfleet's finding was that there probably was a mutiny on board but they weren't being

given the whole truth by the survivors. So I mean, the fact that Picard never even knew that Reiker was on the winning side of a mutiny, like defending the captain from a mutinous crew is like a pretty show-stopping revelation for him. It's something that I feel like you might ask in a job interview. Have you previously ever been guilty of a mutiny or taken part in a mutiny? That's why a lot of Starfleet officers can't get jobs. It's because they end up checking the wrong box there.

It has a real career limiting effect. What's a mutiny again? What ship do you see yourself mutinying on in five years? Yeah, and that is like critical knowledge for a captain and choosing an ex-O. The guy's been sort of an open robe for the last seven years and now it turns out he's wearing been sort of an open robe for the last seven years and now. Now, it turns out he's wearing

some sort of chest plate all along. Yeah, some sort of Batman plate with realistic nipples and abs. Oh, that was close to a spit-take. Oh, if only you could have seen that. That was heroic. How I held that one together. Like, it was, it actually went up the sinuses, like, into the, into the back of the nose,

and then I just said, like, hold it back down. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't, I didn't realize that you were taking a big swig of milk when I said that. Everything was on the line there. So it is with this backdrop and the Romulans off on the other side of the sector that they go back to the rock that they discovered and they're pretty sure that the ship is in the asteroid. Which isn't much of a deterrent to Admiral Pressman. Pressman's like, cool, uh, that's not going to be a big deal. I think all we need to do is take the enterprise into the asteroid. And Picard's like, de fuck. Like, this is, this is a salvage operation. We are in the flagship of the fleet.

Like, is that really necessary? Why don't we just nuke the asteroid for morbid? It's the only way to be sure. Fucking a... Yeah, like, Picard and... And I think Riker actually comes up with the idea of just... of just shooting up the asteroid. Yeah.

And I think that Riker likes this because it will obviate the need for him to ever answer any questions about what really happened on board that ship. The ship's gone. There's nothing to talk about. So I think he's wrong about that though, Ben, because if they shoot up the asteroid and destroy it, that conversation that they had that Picard and Riker had in Picard's quarters still remains. And if Riker doesn't cop to anything more, like, what does Picard do there?

He probably re-assigns Riker, doesn't he? Isn't this a... Yeah, it's just gonna be a thorn in his side for the rest of their relationship. Yeah, I don't know if they could continue after that. So Raker offers this up as an option. Pressmen just squishes that down right away and sort of twists Picard's arm into going in.

And in they go. Mr. Data, will you please note in the ship's log that this action is being taken over my explicit objection? It is so noted, sir. There is a hole in the surface of the asteroid that is sufficiently big for the entrepreneur and they start flying in and it's like there's some really fun model effects here like showing the ship entering the hole, showing it going in, and then showing it inside the hole. And Picard, like, turns to pressman and he's like, okay, we've got the tip in. But if this hole gets much smaller, I'm aborting the mission.

Fuck your orders. Isn't this the whole point of having a ship that can separate the saucer? The whole point of having a ship of this configuration is so that you could keep the civilians outside the asteroid, right? They should have played the theme song separated the ship and then gone in after. Having the ship there, having the saucer just hanging out next to the asteroid would have been what you call a tell when the Romulans came back. Yeah, so I can see why why they decided against it, but you're right. This is this is dangerous stuff.

They get in and they find the Pegasus and it's like half in half out of the rock. It's like that lady who melted into the floor in the corridor. Remember that? Yeah. I think the same idea, right? Like the matter has phased. Yeah. So, and that's what they find.

Like Riker and Pressman are the only two people that beam over to the Pegasus. And they find a cloaking device plugged into the warp core. And this is where we get the kind of reveal of what pressmen and reiker have known. They were part of a research team researching a phasing cloaking device that would allow a federation starship to pass through solid objects. And this is a direct

violation of the Treaty of Algeron, which is a 60 year pact that has kept the federation and the Romulans out of war with each other. It's such an exciting piece of technology, right? And unfortunately, it's also like patently obvious that they will have to plug this thing into the enterprise later. Like, you can't introduce this. It's check out the clicking device. Yeah. You can't introduce this thing's existence without knowing for sure that the enterprise is going to use it. existence without knowing for sure that the enterprise is going to use it. Yeah, it would just be, man, how fucking, how much of a blue balls would it be if they didn't do it? It would be blocked balls.

I'll just shoot this thing with a hand phaser and then we'll beam back to the entrepreneur and we'll get out of here. End of episode. Oh, yeah. That'd be so awful viewing. Riker in this scene actually bites back. Like his dog has been big throughout the episode, but now that they're in private, they can drop the ranks a little bit. Riker's like, you know, all those years ago, I took the wrong side.

Like, we should have destroyed this thing when we had the chance. A bunch of people died because of your stupid decision to like, protect the secret of this thing. Like, and guess what? Like, I'm done. As soon as we get back to the Enterprise, like, I'm gonna tell Picard everything,

like I should have from the start. And this whole thing's gonna go. The Federation having this thing will precipitate war with the Rhyme Hill and Empire. And so, Riker is saying to Pressman, just taking this out of here is extremely dangerous and will cause thousands of deaths.

Yeah. How many people would die this time? 50, 100, 1000. What are acceptable losses? 30 to 50% casualties. This is a great scene. It is. It's so fun because the ship is on this candid angle, so every angle is dutched inherently.

Yeah. The lighting is super dramatic. Riker is standing up in this shadowy corner of the engineering section. And when he steps out, he steps into the light, and it's this like, my argument is flawless. And Riker Angry is one of my favorite Rikers.

Like he's so great. It's a top Riker. Yeah. They start getting bangers dropped on him though Adam. Yeah, their argument becomes interrupted and they got a beam back to the ship. Two people and a piece of equipment is what Pressman says. Yeah, they beam back and

Breaker and Pressman come back out onto the bridge and Picard is looking very upset at the view screen, which has a molten wall of rock displayed on it and He explains to them that the Romulans have sealed them in. It's not a great look for Picard. He's stuck in the hole and Up on the view screen pops our Romulan friend who's like hey buddy Looks like your car's in the ditch.

What a bummer that your car's stuck there. You know, I can help you out if only you beamed over your entire crew. And we'll take you back to Romulus. Take care of your situation, no problem. Presumines reaction here is we can't do that because then they'll have both ships. Like this is something he thought to say out loud. The offer from the Romulan captain is so ridiculous that those words don't need to be said.

Like, thanks Admiral. One of the great minds of the Federation chiming in. If we do that, then they'll put the enterprise in the central square of the Romulan home world. It's what they've always wanted. They've always wanted. And they refuse. And the second, they shut the FaceTime. Riker says, well, listen, I've got an idea. Presman's not gonna like it, but we've got this piece of equipment in his quarters that we brought back from the ship that can get us out of this mess.

Pressman looks at him like, are you fucking serious? Are you gonna do this right now? I think up until this moment, Pressman wasn't sure that Riker was like, had the stones. Yeah. The situation has brought this on. There's no way out of this asteroid without it.

And it's maybe like the silliest scene because the existence of this technology is revealed and Riker's plan to use it to get them out of the asteroid is follows closely and Picard turns to data and he's like, data, well that work and data's like, yep. Given everything I know about this technology that didn't exist as far as I knew three seconds ago. that didn't exist as far as I knew three seconds ago. I love that the idea is also to use the cloak, escape the asteroid and then park outside the Romulan ship. Like couldn't they just go home under cloak?

Couldn't they at least put off the war they know is going to happen by doing that? I think so. It seems like that would have been the right move. But I guess that's sort of like the mechanics of the episode are that it's about not being secretive, not being a criminal. So it's like Picard telling them to drop cloak as sort of like a parent taking their kid back to the store that they stole a pen from and making them give it back or pay for it.

Sure. Yeah, well put. Presbyn is fucking pissed. He's like, he's trying to get Wurf to take Picard into custody. Wurf does that great thing where he just stands there at crosses his arms. It's one of the great wolf moves. Yeah, I thought it would be really fun if Ensen Gates, the Helmswoman,

had come to pressman's defense and grab the phaser and shout everybody, mimicking the move that Riker did all those years ago. That would have been amazing He's an admiral what's wrong with you people Pressmen's like you've got some career potential. I like this one and some gates stick with me. You're going places. But uh, Presman's not the only one fitted for handcuffs and taking to the brig. Rikers on his way there too, because he's not innocent himself.

No, he has his hands nearly as dirty as Presman does. And Picard comes down to visit Riker in the Brigh and it's pretty clear that Riker has been there for a while. Picard sits down and chats with him. That will be a full inquiry once we reach Starbase 247. I like that Picard kind of reused some of his speech to Wesley, like you're known to be an honest officer and because you tell the truth, you deserve to wear that uniform. Yeah. It's good.

It's very like canonical Picard and he's basically saying like I've put in a good word for you. You've obviously earned a lot of goodwill over the years since the thing. And as a very junior officer when the Pegasus incident happened, you like weren't really that culpable for what you did. And, um, oh man, he mentions Fleet Admiral Shanti of the card I opened at the beginning of this very episode. What good fortune we had with that game. Glad you suggested it, Adam.

This conversation made me think a lot about how, like, the truth that Picard presents is that Riker has been an exemplary officer and he is a good man. And good men have made mistakes in their lives, especially in their youth. And this is why like in politics, I never trust a candidate who is, who has a totally squeaky clean background. Like, that never feels real to me. Like, give me someone who's made a mistake and has learned from it and has used that as a way to teach other people like give me anything but a perfect person and that's what Riker is and that's sort

of what makes Riker perfect to me. Yeah I mean I'll come right out and say it out of my think this is a great episode. Yeah, me too. One thing we glossed over, and one of the ways that I think this may not have been a perfect episode, but rather a great episode, is that when they decloak outside the Romulan ship and the captain over there is like, what the fuck are you guys doing? That is nuts! I thought we locked you in there. Picard sort of does the writers cop out of like, our people will call your people later

about this incident. We actually don't have time in the episode to wrap this up. So, look for this later on in future episodes. That, like, it's okay that that was undone, but it seemed a little too transparently. We don't know what the consequence of this is, so we're just going to kick the can down the road. Yeah. Yeah, and it seems so strange given the fact that they could have just gone away under a cloak.

Yeah. That they chose to do it that way. I mean, it's, I guess, on theme, but maybe a little clergy in execution. I love this episode. I love conspiracy episodes in general. I think we both feel this way. Conspiracy, the episode, one of the great episodes. All other episodes that involve conspiracies,

I'm a big fan of. I think this is part of what this show does best, is tell those stories. Yeah, and it's, you know, it's not a big crazy conspiracy with tons of moving parts. It's like essentially a guy that went rogue trying to legitimize a terrible thing he did the best. Yeah. Yeah, really great. You know what else is really great, Adam? Our viewers, and they may have sent us some P1s.

Do you want to go check? Yeah, we better do that. Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement on top. supplement on top? supplement Yes, extra. The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship

and we have couple of priority one messages here the first one is from plevim and razz what? i can't believe this you're gonna read a p1 from one of them from both of them at him it's to Pranman and the FrontPort campaigner. It goes like this. Just wanted to say thanks.

That was an insane night in Milwaukee. We had a great time. I had no idea those girls would really do that on a tandem bicycle, no less. I hope the hotel wasn't too pissed. Let's do it again next time you're in town. Ben, the one thing we can't do on our tour stop in Milwaukee is tell anyone in what hotel we're staying. Let's agree to that right now.

I'm with you buddy. I am the least of all res by beam. I feel like they have a rich history of doing things that will definitely get you additional charges on your final receipt. You meet Razz and Plavim at a tour stop. You better remember one thing, Ben. A good supply up your rel. Ben, our second priority one message is from R and Plavimes group therapist to just for Raz and Plavimes. What? Message goes like this identifying the source of your anger is an important first step.

Plavime, it's okay for you to be angry with Raz for sleeping with your sister. Raz, it's not okay for you to refer to such activities as staying a night in the Rasmah Hall. Okay. PS, if you can afford thousands of dollars on P1 messages, you can afford your therapy bill. Your past due. And just like that, the Rasmaplavim verse has grown. Yeah, man. And this is a real whiplash, because that first one was so self-referential,

I thought that we were going to just like turn in on ourselves and disappear. And now there is a group therapist in the cast of characters. I have a feeling in not too far in the future, we will be doing Raz and Plavimcons. I'm pretty excited about meeting Raz and Plavim We will be doing resin pleveem cons I'm pretty excited about meeting resin pleveem in the flesh in Milwaukee you and me both man That's exciting. I guess that will have already happened by the time we we air this right? Yeah Boy, I better get our our Inoculations before then Yeah, you have to go to one of those travel clinics.

Nothing like that Milwaukee travel clinic ban. Just a 40ccs of bratwurst. Well if you'd like to give us a few ccs to keep us up and running, you can go to maximumfund.org slash jumbo tron. to keep us up and running. You can go to maximumfund.org slash jembo tron. Of course personal messages are a hundred dollars and commercial messages are two hundred dollars and they really help us make this pod. Thanks guys. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it. The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023. We've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. information for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. and some air-gorn fries, thank you. And, come here on Nangeon. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps are open, just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead.

Whoa, rats, hey, hey, hey, oh, I've got to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not and they've such short neck But I'm here and we need to get on this. I gotta get on the art. Yeah, it's about terrain. I thought it's about to destroy humanity Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like human. We're actually we're podcasters We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie?

We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came to by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on Maximumund.org. Hey Ben. What's that Adam? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? I did. It's pretty obvious.

It's just freaks in that first scene. Or I guess, Riker. Just, you know, he's just having so much fun. He puts the doll in the crook of his arm. And he's just having so much fun. He, he puts the doll in the crook of his arm and like waves his little mini arm. It's so great. What's better than that, Adam? The thing I wish we asked of our Burton about that we didn't when we interviewed him a couple episodes ago was not just about the first

episode he directed, but this one, the second episode, because it would have been nice to hear how his way of directing changed and also how much latitude he may have given freaks in this scene, because it seems like freaks is improvising almost all of this. Like, you give a great improviser a table full of props, and like I wonder how many takes he got with all the different props I wonder if there's like a 30 minute reel of him just vamping. Yeah, I also sort of wonder You know, we were talking Recently about the idea that in season seven freaks was

Cheeping up the episodes he wasn't directing himself And is cheaping up the episodes he wasn't directing himself. And like this episode is so dense with budget. There's lots of cool special effects and shots of the ship flying into an asteroid and stuff. I wonder if Lovar Burton was in on that game. Talk about conspiracies. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, this was, this felt like a full budget episode. Yeah, no corners cut. Did you have a drunk Shimoda Adam? I mean,

Riker is the obvious choice. The Shimoda that I had in mind was Pressman and his reaction to the Romulan offer. Like that to me was like the dumbest part of a very smart episode. We can't do that. They'll have both ships. Like shut the fuck up, Presman. Like, are you serious? But like from a purely fun standpoint, it could be no one else besides Frakes. fun standpoint, it could be no one else besides Frakes. Like, Frakes as Riker was, was scene stealing. In, I mean, and you could, you could put him up for Shimoda of the season with his performance in this cold open. It's fantastic.

I love it. Ben, what do we have coming up on the next episode? The next episode is season seven episode 13, Home Word. Worf Foster Brother violates the Prime Directive in an effort to save a doomed alien race. You remember this one, Adam? Worf's foster brother. Yeah. Who is that? Paul Sorvino, Adam. I love Paul Sorvino. Paul Sorvinoino, Adam. I love Paul Sourvino. Paul Sourvino is the best. He's a very good method for violating the Prime Directive.

He cuts the Prime Directive very thin, so it just melts in the pan. It's a very good method. Yeah. You got a lot of time when you're in the the Federation prison For a Rico case. Oh, yeah, let's get to no worth again then. Well, I'm looking forward to this one. I I remember really liking this episode. Oh good Me too then in the meantime you can talk to us about this episode and any other episode by going on Twitter

and using the hashtag GreatestGen. Adam is on there, is at Cut for Time. I'm on there as that Benjamin R, A-H-R. We also have great and lively Facebook group and Reddit groups go there. Come see us on tour if you're in some of the towns. We are still making our way through. Can't wait.

Yeah, in the unlikely event that there are still tickets available, please gobble those up and come out to see us. Like, I think, you know, when we think about touring this show, I don't think this is gonna be a thing that we do constantly. It's gonna happen once or twice a year. And so, in places like the Midwest and the East Coast, we might not be back for a couple of years. So, this is your chance. If you wanna come see the show live, we'd love to meet as many of you as we can.

Not just Rasmplivim. We should thank Dark Materia for our theme music, Adam Recrucia for a lot of the other music that you hear on the program and the great folks at MaximumFun.org who do so many things to you support the show and most of all we should thank the folks that go to MaximumFun.org slash Donate and support the show monetarily. It means the world to us. It is, it's the only reason we can go out and do tours, really, is through the support of our listeners.

So we really appreciate that. You know how much fucking money it costs just to book a tour. Yeah, it's obscene. Your head would fucking spin. I don't think most people would do it, honestly, and I think that's the reason that most podcasts don't tour quite honestly. Yeah. So with that, we will be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation. An episode of the greatest generation that is using storms and thunderbolts and lightning

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