The Greatest Generation - The Dark Side of the Golden Rule (VOY S2E8)

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

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Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

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and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Watch your back shot. Hello. I'm Captain Captain Bringengwe. The U.S. is for the... Captain Captain Captain Bringengwe. The U.S.S. Forte and Dirk. Captain Captain, Captain Bringengweb the U.S.S. Forte and Dirk. Welcome to the greatest generation Voyager.

It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to be looking at each other during I'm Ben Harrison. I'm Adam Pranica. You know, we heard about that Delta variant. We were like, let's start recording in person again. Yeah, now's the time for that. We're gonna record like two episodes in person and then we're gonna get locked down again. And that's it.

God damn it. I mean, you moved to LA and we barely did anything in person for our show that we had, really had very few opportunities to do it in person. Yeah. Before that. And, uh... Could have stayed in Seattle. Yeah.

Could have had a nice life there. Yeah. But I'm just choosing to appreciate it today. This is fun. Yeah. I'm really glad you made me a beverage. I did. I did.

We had an event coming up where we had to come up with a cocktail for it and we were taste testing the cocktail earlier today. Yeah. Taste good. It does taste good. Okay. It tastes done. It's a slammed vine already.

Yeah. It's the gold pressed cocktail. And if you want to know the recipe for the gold pressed cocktail, sorry, we're not sharing it. Are we not? You don't want to put it in the show notes? Maybe in a few weeks, you know, once we've done the event.

All right. You know? Yeah. I don't want to like leak it early, you know? That makes it less fun for the people at the event. Don't want to leak it early. So that's the problem with an older man. Yeah.

Yeah. Adam, you had a great idea for a Marin this week. Yeah, it has to do specifically with my time in Los Angeles. One of the great parts of LA is its rich amusement park density, right? So many options around. There's actually one amusement park per capita in Los Angeles. Every person gets their own personal amusement park here. It's great.

I love that about LA. But my wife and I, every couple of years, we try to go to the Disneyland. Yeah. And it's something we didn't know that we liked until she went on a business trip to Japan many years ago. And I went with her because I've always wanted to go to Japan. Japan was awesome.

10 out of 10 awesome trip. If you have the opportunity to tag along on anyone's Japan trip, you should do it. But one of the random things we did while we were in Tokyo was we went to Tokyo Disneyland. Wow. And that was the first time we went to a Disneyland property as adults because I went as a small child. I remember really enjoying it. Yeah. My wife did too. I went twice as a kid and I remember really thinking it was great. As an adult and maybe because it was in Japan because everything in Japan just runs perfectly. How did great time? Wow. Excellent. Fast forward a few years after that, like between three and five years after that, we went to Disneyland again with a bunch of actually skip 30 these days. We don't fast forward anymore

All right, yeah hit the skip 30 when again this time with some friends went to Disneyland in Anaheim Great time 10 out of 10. Wow all adults like no kids like it would like I want to be clear like that to the vibe Yeah, and then what was last week? Was three years after that after the last time that we went. If you're putting that together, that timeline together. So between every three and five years, my wife and I have gone. And so we went back last week. We ripped the mask off of the bandaid, like getting back in big public gatherings. Wow.

In a big time way, because we were at a full capacity Disneyland together last week. How much of grown up Disneyland going is Jazgummy or boozy beverage induced? I'm trying to think of it. I know that there are tons of adult Disney enthusiasts. And my wife and I are not them. But a couple of drinks and a jazz gummy

and a bunch of fun park food and a stroll in the park's riding rides is a fucking great day. It's a great day. And we had a great day last week. But I might wanna try it. You should. I think you'd like it a lot. Okay. All right.

I don't wanna push it on you as a thing because I know like a lot of people don't like it. There are a lot of negatives about it, I would say, for some personalities. A jazz gummy can make almost anything tolerable. It's true. And fairly recent development, not recent recent, but like you can get an alcoholic beverage in more and more places at Disneyland, and that wasn't a thing before a little bit of coincidence.

Yeah, that's a pretty recent development from what I understand. Yeah, I think so. I think it makes it more adult-friendly. But can you get a synthetic beverage at him? You can't, Ben. And that is kind of what inspired this question I have. So I couldn't help, but walk around Disneyland and especially like the new parts of it. Your Marvel's world, your Star Wars universe part of the park. And not be struck by the idea of like, Disneyland is great at walling off these areas of the park that make them feel like you're in these worlds. Right. You're not standing in Star Wars op-alus and seeing the old

timey country railroad or whatever. Not at all. It's great at that. And I was thinking like, why isn't there a Star Trek amusement park? And are we sure there aren't designs on one as we speak? Because you think about the growing universe that's happening with all these new shows.

You can feel where you watch. There's 17 Star Trek shows currently in production. A lot of people don't realize that. When you watch those shows, it feels like the edges of the universe are being pushed out a little bit to accommodate the idea of not just guys on a starship, driving around meeting different aliens

like they are telling them what's wrong with their culture. There are like places to go with identities and stories all their own and as I was walking especially through the Star Wars part of the park I was like what would a Star Trek theme park look like? Were one exist. And I feel like you and I could come up with great ideas about what it would be like there. All right, so it's gotta have lands, right? Like there is, there's gonna be the Federation headquarters land. Right.

There's gonna be cronos. Yeah, there's gonna be Vulcan. There's gonna be Vulcan. The core alien species of Star Trek, you're gonna be there. I got it. You gotta rep those. You might wanna have like a deep space nine or space stationy kind of environment.

Is there not a Risa? Is deep space nine? Is the hotel attached to the park? Feel like it is. Man, how cool would that be? You're bombing down the 405, get off in Aheim and you can see the upper pylons. It would be great.

Did you ever go to Star Trek Experience in Las Vegas? I didn't. I've heard a lot of great stories. Our buddy Jesse Thorne went, I think, after it had been stripped of its license. Whoa. So it was like, what a weird time to go there. It was like the Star Trek bar, but all of the logos had been like peeled off of things.

I went when I was a kid. A kid's a great age to go to Las Vegas, really. Thanks, mom and dad. But I remember really enjoying the experience, but I also wonder if the experience wasn't a reason that no one's trying anymore to do it, because it's difficult. But back in the mid 90s, I feel like the universe wasn't as large as it is now,

and maybe you couldn't push out into the, into the different worlds at the time. They was just a TNG universe. If I could go with you and a couple of buddies and do the Kobayashi-Maru on a bridge simulator, yeah. I would pay $500 to do that. I gotta tell you, one of the biggest let downs

of Disneyland was the Millennium Falcon Escape ride. Oh, man. They split you into three teams, right? You're the pilots team, you're the weapons team, and you're the engineers team. And you could see how this could be moved into a Star Trek type environment fairly easily by doing it this way. But because the ride is situated face forward and all the controls are to the side, like my wife and I are in the back of the engineer station hitting buttons

completely missing the fun of what's happening on screen. And so it was a let down that way, but I was thinking like all of the shuttlecraft accidents that have ever happened in Star Trek, you've got to believe that like an easy way to port over that kind of ride is like the shuttlecraft escape ride. Uh huh, sure. On the pistons, with the screen. Right, and you could like use the same technology

to also like every park needs to have it's a small world. Like the ride that is like, there's not really anything to it. Yeah. And the shuttle to, you're the captain and you're getting a shuttle ride to your new ship. Ride. That would be great. That reminds me of Peter Pan. We ride, we rode the Peter Pan ride at Disneyland and that is so much a like chill hang, like float above a city, forced scale, kind of vibey experience,

and that would be a great cold ride. You need a cold ride in a hot park in Southern California, and that would be a really good one. I think Kronoschland would be where your Mr. Toads, wild ride analog would probably have to happen. Like, what do they have like a name for the neighborhood that Picard goes to that everybody's like, don't go there? I mean, yeah, there's the Orion Bizarre on Cronos 2, right?

That we learned about discovery. Yeah. I feel like discovery did a great job in filling in the colors of that world a little bit more. Oh, yeah. You could see it. Fun like you go into the men's restroom in Kronosland and they've got stacked urinals for your double dicks to piss into.

Wouldn't it be great? Those details are not expensive details, but they totally work. Yeah, they help make the illusion more real. Couldn't you imagine the fast pass app on your phone being an isolinear chip style thing that you're using to navigate the park. Yeah, or even you get a combat and the things that you get a combat that you load onto the combat ahead of time. It like, oh, that's so great. Yeah. Yeah. That would rule. rule all the food the food and bev is like I think one of the areas you could really shine in a Star Trek park.

Nielix's restaurant lease popular restaurant in the park. Yeah, very bad. The Klingon restaurant very popular. Yeah got a lot a lot of noodle dishes. It's really an Italian restaurant and this guy's and this guy's. You've got 10 forward, right? You want to be able to go like, I think that also like being an adult Disney fan, like I think that Star Trek's core fandom is a little older. So you're going to want that simple, all access. One of the coolest parts of the Star Wars part of the park was the Cantina, which was mega popular. And the weight was longer than it should have been

to go in and have a drink for 30 minutes. But it was so beautiful inside and so detailed. They just did it. And the horseshoe-shaped bar was set up in such a way where you could see the science-fictiony aspects of the drinks being made and the weird animal That that shout out the boba that would go into the weird boba drink like it was all like the world felt very lived in and real there and a fun way like like that in a in a star Trek bar I think there were enough details you can make possible there like right imagine that the

Feeling like you were replicating a meal. What if you went to a restaurant and a federation part of the station that had the cheesecake factory menu and the joke was that you really could get anything and the menu was giant because you're replicating it. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love the idea of the like fantasy sort of like piercing into your reality and the way a theme park can play with that. And the way this episode of Voyager plays with that. Yeah. I agree. I mean, I think we're going to keep hitting on the themes of the creation of a Star Trek land.

We're gonna be very persistent in that drumbeat vision of what that could look like. Yeah, I agree. By far the worst pivot we've ever had in the show here, Ben, it's Voyager Season 2 episode 8. Persistence of Vision. Rebirth course. Unless you've got something a little bigger in your torpedo toots, I'm not turning around. I feel like we got this with Picard and we've probably got it with Cisco too. Like the Captain is a workaholic theme is something that runs through Star Trek. This episode starts with the Captain marching her way down to engineering.

Paris is on the radio telling her about navigational analysis. He's running, wants to share with her, which is late to her meeting. Everybody wants a piece of her around this bata space that they are about to be flying through. The bathons, many of them died to get us the information that the Voyager needs. Isn't that what kind of people died to get them the information about the new star destroyer? Oh really? Yeah. Doesn't Mon Mothma say something about bothons dying? Many bothons died to bring us this information. You know! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! You know, for how much I wanted to talk about Star Wars land in the Marin, I don't have that one.

Ehh. I did not get that reference. See, my joke was gonna be far worse. It was gonna go like between Nelix and this new alien race competing for Janeway's attention. She doesn't have time for both of... Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh! Ehh. Yeah, both of them want a piece of her. I thought this is a time travel episode up front because she's back to her two episodes ago. Bun. Time travel. Oh yeah. She's back to bun. Ben. Yeah, I feel like there is something going on with that. Like, we produced a bunch of episodes that were meant to air

as part of season one and are now airing them as part of season two. So there's some hair continuity issues going on. Have you ever gotten a haircut and it ended up being a bad haircut and then you just tried to brute force it into looking the way it used to look before the haircut and it just never works. Yeah. Yeah. Janeway's pulled it off here though. She looks and it just never works. Yeah. Yeah. Janeway's pulled it off here, though.

She looks great. She did it. Yeah. She's the scientist said it couldn't be done, but she did it. She cut a third of her hair a couple episodes ago and grew it back. Yeah. So they're down in engineering trying that hollow emitter thing for the doc that they talked about a couple episodes ago, the idea that maybe

there are some other parts of the ship that we could set up hollow emitters and he could join us on the bridge and in engineering and a few other key places like he won't be able to go everywhere, but he'll be able to move about the cabin now that the captain has turned off the fasten, holo, the bitter sign. The potential for this is great, but the experiment turns out fairly embarrassing once they realize they've got a little duck. Yeah.

They keep doing this, right? They keep squishing him for a comedic effect. They do that treatment to his voice to make him sound a little chipmucky. Yeah. Just a small oversight, no pun intended. Burnout is real though. Like he can tell that she is getting short with people. She's snappy. She's not her best self because she's not taking breaks. She's not eating. She's on a coffee only form of diet which

is not great. In a lot of ways, Jeff and Jane were the the transporter chief is really working over time, beam the poops out of her, but. No wonder she's walking so fast. Somehow, I will find half an hour. So he pulls rank. President setting move where a hologram pulls rank on a corporeal member of the crew.

Yeah. He tells her you got to take a break, you got to go to your horny fuck program. Fuck program. Holograms orders. I thought it was interesting we see so many angles of the doc in this scene that they set up a false floor for his digital self to stand on. Oh wow.

Did you notice that? I kind of thought that they were doing it with green screen, but you're saying like they like built it. Well, I mean, I mean, the camera is is bisected by what looks like a digital floor on the on the reverse shot. Like when they were avershot it back to Jane Way's face and they kind of shoot what is a what's dirty. If you could even call it dirty when you see the doctor's entire body. Yeah, when the character is a action figure in the foreground. Yeah.

Yeah, I thought, like, you could see a little stripe of what looked like a fake floor there from a stand-in in order to make the effect work with the camera because you can't, like, you can't sink the camera through the floor in order to get the angle on on the table. Groose face. Right. They had to they had to fake it.

Yeah, it looked good. It was a fun effect. Yeah. So yeah, she heads into that program. I guess she's getting dressed in her ready room when she stops to take a look at a photo of her and Tom Mervyn's with. I think a different dog than we've seen him with in previous photos. We need some dog continuity here too. What the hell happened? Where did they get this other dog?

You know how you can buy those picture frames for grandma that you can like send your digital photos to and upload to keep her in touch with their life? Like if the only piece of technology on Voyager that could actually connect back home was these frames and so over the course of time the dog kept changing I wonder what he calls that one I may never know She clearly has a great affection for this image of herself with Tom Irons But with what she's about to do in the hollanovel, I thought she might have been better off putting the picture face down. Yeah, because she gets into the hollanovel and Lord Burley is kind of 0-60 with her. He is confessing his love for her, like, right before his kids and the evil housekeeper come in.

It's an interesting technique that this show does in an equal and opposite way to deep space nine because deep space nine really made hay out of Bashir and O'Brien on their way to the hollow sweet and how ridiculous they look. Janeway would look just as ridiculous walking to the holodeck in what she's wearing, but you never see that interstitial scene for good reason. Yeah, I feel like Picard had to like get on the view screen with an alien once or twice dressed as Dixon Hill. And it's always like a little bit humiliating.

They don't humiliate Janeway. Yes. The government's dress could be played for that and it has not been so far. And for the entire episode, like there is crew knowledge of what she does in the holodeck and it is never played for a laugh. Yeah, it's very interesting because it really threads the needle between DS9 and TNG, which is that DS9's holo suites were fuck palaces. And TNG kind of implied that that could happen

a little bit here and there, but it never quite felt masturbatory in this way. Like this feels like the bodice is gonna get ripped if she hangs out in the holodeck a little bit longer. And it's cool that the crews, like not judgmental of that, they're like, yeah, get your bodice ripped, Janeway. Like, that's what people do when they go in the holodeck. It's so much more of a necessity,

like a medical necessity on Voyager, to go in there and fuck. You need to do this. Because like on Deep Space Nine, the Hollis Suites were kind of like a fling activity. Like, you could, you could fuck a lot of people. Ships are coming and going, like constantly. There's the variety there.

Yeah. But you need the, the hollow variety. Right. Yeah. You really do. I also thought the scene was interesting because like when the kids come in, it almost felt like Janeway was trolling them initially.

It's revealed that she has like made a mis apprehension, but she's like telling Lord Burley that the daughter is like awesome at piano. and they're gonna link them initially. It's revealed that she has made a misapprehension, but she's telling Lord Burley that the daughter is like awesome at piano. It just turns out to be quite musical. And everybody's like, no, she really sucks at piano. You do not know what you're talking about, and this is that the mom is still alive

and living in the house, but she can't go to the fourth floor. They intentionally or not really ratchet up the scary robot nature of the burly kids. Yeah. Yeah. They are children of the corning quite a bit. Yeah. And Miss Templeton, the housekeeper lady, is also really scary in her own way.

Kids are perceptive, though. They can tell that Lord Burley has a cucumber in his pants for for Janeway here. That's why he has no appetite for the cucumber sandwiches. Right. Right. He doesn't like seeing him cut up like that. He already has one in his pantaloons. In his plus fours. Is that what they are? I don't know. I just made a guess at what pants would be called. They're probably pantaloons. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know anything. Plus fours are like those

golf pants that like come down three quarters of the way. All right. Yeah. It's a total scandal this whole Beatrice on the piano thing. Yeah. And it's weird how it's coming out like almost almost feeling like Jane Ways like throwing everyone off the scent of what just went down with her making it out with Lord Burley like I'm gonna put a lot of business out and it's like a distributed denial of service attack on everybody's perception of what's happening in this room They're like, can you believe she brought up the piano playing what? She would say to guestbuster and just search shooting things in the room. She could take interrupts Lord Burley's boner with a message. It's time for the both and.

Janeway comes up to the bridge and one of the many people that tried to get her attention early in the episode was New Lake. She really wanted to talk to her about what's going on in this part of space. You know, they have a flight plan through the part of space that the Batha control, but Nielix has been here in some rumors. And so this is her crash course in what's been said. And he's kind of talking about other Nielix-y types that he keeps in touch with and how word is ships are going missing around here without any warning and without any explanations. They're sort of entering the Bathan triangle.

This both a FaceTime is funny to me. We throw a lot of shade on the whole like how thoughtful it is to get up on FaceTime with a new alien and just see what they're working with. And this botan alien looks like they're broadcasting from Doug club before it opens. Like they haven't hit doors yet, but the lights queue has happened. Right. And he's up there at the DJ station. Right. Like they haven't started playing the music yet. The light show hasn't started, but the lights are on full.

He is telling Janeway that he needs to determine whether or not they meet the criteria for passage through their space. And they're gonna have to meet up to do that. Yeah, he's coming with some real tood as they discuss this. He says a ship is gonna be sent out to them to see if they pass muster,

but he's pissed that they're even here to begin with. If why have you went to our space without permission? And I thought it was interesting that he went from being pissed that they were here to like, all right, we'll give it a look to see and see if we think we can accommodate your request to travel through our space. At this point, it's unclear if they're outgunned or not, and it's also unclear whether or not if Voyager outgunned or not. You know, and it's also one clear whether or not

if Voyager outgunned the bottoms, whether or not they would just go through their space. Because they could. Yeah. I thought it was so interesting, because like, all of this puts me ill at ease, you know? Like, we can't see the guy's face. They talk about that, like, maybe that's like, maybe that's game. And you don't trust Nelix and whatever he has to say about anything. Yeah,

I mean, all of Neelix's behavior feels like trauma response and that's just not good, good stuff to go on as a rational crew. But so they just said, all right, I guess we're gonna wait for this bot to ship to show up and Neelix calls the captain on the fact that she has not been making it down to the restaurant with as much frequency as she should. Captain Janeway is so nice. Because at this point in time, I would have been like, fuck off. Stop trying to care for me. This is what makes me a bad patient in real life.

Because I don't want to be cared for. I just want to be left alone when I'm sick. It's like the other side of the coin with you, you never want to bother anyone. Yeah. So you never want anyone to bother you. Yeah. It's a bit of like the dark side of the golden rule, which is like when you have like a slightly fucked up way you want to be treated. Yeah. I got a lot of problems. And I don't tell anyone How I would like to be treated either so I just like I allow them to make the mistakes that I hold grudges against the core. Yeah You just simmer. Yeah It's bad. Sometimes late at night. I wonder which things I have done to upset you. I'd never tell you, Ben

Yeah, that's the really challenging thing about being friends with you. Neelix is like, I bet I have eight to ten things that could help your mood right now, and they're all configured in this buffet format. Let's take a walk down the buffet, and this is another thing I couldn't deal with. Don't make me a plate. Don't load up my plate at Thanksgiving. I want to make the plate. Is he making the plate for her? Yeah. Oh, wow. Because I thought I thought he was making it for her? Yeah. Oh, wow. Because I thought he was making it for himself and that she didn't, she just kind of a funnier take on it though, if like he goes to the buffet for us. Look at all this great looking food.

I forgot I made all this. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like if he's making it for her, like fuck off, Nielix for sure. Yeah. But if he's making it for himself, that kind of rules. They get to the end of the buffet line and the spooky thing starts to happen, which is like, isn't that Mr. Burley's cucumber? I don't like the way it cuts. At the end of the line,

yeah, is that Mr. Burley's cucumber on your buffet, Nielix, or are you just happy to see me? Mr. Burley's cucumber sounds like a late 90s Morgan Freeman movie title, you know? Like total Oscar bait. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, it's such a powerful performance. I know so much gravitas. I don't believe it should have won best pictures though. It's cucumber sandwiches and the same cup that Beatrice broke in the holodeck. Yeah. And that's weird. And Janeway is like asking questions about this.

She's like, why cucumber sandwiches? Nobody really likes those. I want cucumber sandwiches. You'll wait your turn young man. Janeway's so smart and scientific. I would not have noticed this. I would have been tired and hungry going through the buffet line like, cool. Let me load up on these sandwiches and I'll be on my way. So she winds up walking down a hallway

by herself and passes some anonymous crew member and starts hearing Lord Burley talking and you know like whips around thinking like the crew member is making fun of her or something, but clearly he is not the person speaking. But we start to get the distinct impression that the captain is losing her mind at this point, which is a pretty scary idea. And like, I think that we've talked a little bit about like the horror genre choices that could be made in this show and often aren't. And I think this is a really creepy episode, but it is not arch in its use of horror

tropes. The music is pretty understated in terms of how it is evoking these feelings. It also turns away from a fairly consistent Star Trek trope, especially an early Star Trek series that constructs a threat out of a captain who is suffering in this way. Right. Like, from jump, we all feel a great amount of compassion for Captain Janeway. We do not feel threatened by her in the state in a way that we've gotten a lot of Picard like that. Right.

Yeah. Especially. Yeah, Malibu Picard is going to do something really horrible or whatever. Yeah. And like, she is fully like seeing the kids from the hollow novel in the hallway and immediately is like something is wrong with the holodeck because emitters are being installed on the ship

and I'm seeing my holodeck shit everywhere. That's scientifically minded Janeway coming up with a rational solution to this problem. And I love the Star Trek shorthand this, like that, like it's an idea that we could have had on TNG, but it would have taken a McLaughlin group. If you walk. And Jordi speculating about it before we could get to it,

but this is like smash cut to engineering, where she's like, something is going on with what you're doing, because I'm connecting these two dots in my mind. Oggham's razor, something is going on with the Hollywood're doing because I'm connecting these two dots in my mind. Ockham's razor, something is going on with the hollow emitters that is causing my program to spill out into the rest of the ship. Can you explain this?

And Harry and Belana are like, ugh. I just thought we had a little duck. Very amusing. I didn't know the rest of this was gonna happen. Yeah. Bielt uses the word delusions when describing what Captain Janeway is going through,

which I thought was an extremely heavy word. Yeah, I think it's actually a very accurate word because it made me think a lot about how we would use that word today. It's loaded when you say delusion. And yeah, like she's remarkably sanguine when she uses it. Right. I think that the episode does occasionally

use hallucination interchangeably with delusion, which is unfortunate because there is a distinction. A delusion is a thing that you see as there, that isn't there, but you don't know it's not there. You're seeing it in a way that is convincing, whereas a hallucination is a visual effect or whatever, if you take LSD and the pattern on the curtain is going through permutations, you know that the pattern on the curtain is not really going through permutations. You know that the pattern on the curtain is not really going through permutations because you took LSD two hours ago and you're starting to get visual effects.

Right. So they decide to run an experiment with Captain Janeway inside the holiday and this was an opportunity to make fun of her not taking. Like on the inside of the holiday Janeway is in there interacting with Lord Burley. You don't see Janeway From the waist down, but like it's in a immediate basement flooding as soon as Burley's on the scene so much so that she's got to like delete his program Like from engineering BLT and Harry camera like we're noticing actually an increase in... There's a lot of humidity in the lower half of the room. Can you tell us if you're seeing just sort of a wet fog in there? I might took my computer into the Apple Store

to get like a network problem fix. Like I couldn't connect to Wi-Fi and the tech did some stuff. You didn't look in your tax documents, did you? Well, it was a lady and she did some stuff to the like network settings and then like went to the browser and like did that thing where she started to type a URL and like it does like a suggestion

and I totally got caught with a pornocyte auto filling. Oh shit. And I wanna be clear, it was just the URL that auto-filled. We did not go to the actual site, but she was like totally classy and professional about it. In the way that BLT and Harry are here. So yeah! Janeway has asked them to like, do diagnostics on her fuck program. God, it's really true.

They're such good friends. They really are! I admire the hell out of this. Yeah. like, dude diagnostics on her fuck program. God, it's really true. They're such good friends. They really are! I admire the hell out of this! Yeah. Yeah, nicely done. I've got to get that... Lucknam gets that old bit ofodgement here.

A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre- and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to greatestgentour.com to get more info. That's greatestgentour.com for dates and ticketing information

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Oh, rats. Hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and, boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks. But I'm hearing we need to get on this arc. We've got to get on the arc. It is about to rain, about to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans, but we're actually

podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Kerry? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so same life like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boat. We came to by two. What do you think? Ona Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. I've got to get that luck would not be selling a highest.

Go on. So, the experiment is a failure because BLT and Ensign Kim don't detect anything out of the ordinary like outside of the basement flooding nothing programmatically wrong is happening that would be proof of of the delusions like there's no connection between them. There's no connection. So she basically says like keep looking into this still most likely, say, I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change.

I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change.

I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. I'm going to go change. some of the dishes that were on offer and some of the drinking vessels that were available at lunch time here in the galley and his memory of what went down is a little different from Janeways He does not remember Lord Burley's cucumber. He does not remember the fancy teacup He wasn't at the same lunches, sir

You and I know that no one should ever learn any food safety lessons from watching Star Trek. And I feel like we've come back around to that theme utterly in this scene. When you see Neelix peeling a vegetable with a full-on chef's knife, like pulling it towards his hand and thumb. Yeah, he's doing the pairing knife thing. You don't do that with the chef's knife? The blade going at you. Oh, it gave me the, it totally creeped me out. Yeah, yeah. I wonder if he then develops his doing that on purpose, just like put unease

into the scene. Maybe he wants some time off work. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Just seems like an easy way to go to the emergency room. Yeah, it really does. He is like trying to play along here, but is very confused and Janeway does take this as evidence that she is not as connected to reality as she needs to be. It's a great Ethan Phillips performance here because he middles the poles of feeling sorry for someone

who is clearly going through a thing or being so nothing's wrong Captain about it that that that would also feel false like he manages to go right between those two feelings in a believable place. When they're cucumber sandwiches. I don't even know what that is. I really liked it and I also really like the way the six-base scene goes. She's getting her headscanned by the doc who is not finding any evidence of damage to her brain, but there's a lot of things you have to rule out in a Star Trek episode to figure out why somebody is seeing shit that's not there. And like, I love the kind of like half list of things that he rattles off that could be at play here.

I don't feel like I've ever gotten a good sense of like, can the tricorder pick up if somebody is telepathic? Is there something measurable happening there? Like it must be, right? Like there must be something that is being transmitted between people if a telepath can pick up on something. That's so interesting, like, if it's a radio wave type of detectability.

Yeah. Like, is it measurable in some way and can the doc do that? I mean, it does seem measurable, at least in the case of this episode, it will find out, but he hasn't ruled that out yet, So that's something he's going to look into. And he's kind of talking about all of the many things he's going to have to try when Kess starts feeling these effects too. She gets walloped with chilliness. I thought this was an unexpected moment for Captain Janeway's sense of humor to appear, because it feels like a very haunted mansion type of, type of moment here.

Yeah. She's like, why does the doctor have control over the thermostat in 6-B when he is merely a hologram? Why do men always set the thermostat? Captain Janeway asks the doctor, who do you see here? And the doctor says, I see you. A lot of bits flying around in 6- day and they're having fun with it. Kess can see the little girl though.

And when Kess sees her, it's like she's repelled by Kess and turns into like a cloud of mist that is absorbed into Janeway's chest. Did you get this? The first time you saw it because they're talking about how Kess can repel her? I just thought the little robot girl wheeled around of her own volition and slimered Captain Janeway because she wanted to I didn't think that it was Kess is doing it all. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting how slowly they roll this mechanic out like they talk about like it's like a mirror and the thing is reflecting off of it or something. But I'm not positive that the, like, logic of the episode is flawlessly executed. Like,

there were a couple of times where I was like, what? And this was one of them, but then I felt, like, later, I was like, oh, like, I see this is a mechanic that happens a couple of times. And so there's something about Kess that does this, but they like don't belabor it with explanation in this scene, which I think is intentional, but it does like feel a little bit like confusing. I love the Kess chooses this moment to disclose that she's been practicing telepathic experiments. Yeah.

I think it'd be like the captain should know about this when they begin and not just incidentally to this moment. I'm truly dismayed that you told no one of what you were doing. It's a real law situation. Yeah. Yeah. It really fun bit of business happens here because we cut to the exterior of Six Bay. Captain Janeway is returning to her quarters for rest. And she orders another one of her fucking boring soups. And then changes her mind into coffee ice cream. There's coffee in that ice cream. Who alts their own food order that wildly? That's pretty, that's a pretty big swing. I feel like my wife kind of will do that. She'll be like, It's a pretty big swing. I feel like my wife will do that.

She'll be like, should I get the soup or the chicken tenders? And they'll be like, I can't believe you're entertaining both. I don't want to turn this into husband's be like and wives be like, but exactly. Wives be like that. Yeah, I'm like deciding between the burger and the Cuban. Yeah, my wife is like vegetable lasagna or the whole trout. How do you have the taste for both of those things?

It's great, but then there's a thump in her quarters and she checks it out. And I like this scene because you get a little bit of a tour of Janeway's quarters a bit. And how she walks into one door and into her like living space. And then she walks through the, there's not a partition, but she walks into the area where her bedroom is, where she walked in originally.

And you see the bed and the shea long there or whatever. And then she hears Tom Mervyn's voice. Yeah. And he's very, Mervyn's voice. Yeah. And he's very, very disappointed in how she's been spending her time. Kind of an ugly look for Tom Mervyn. Like, he doesn't want his wife to have jack-off fantasies. Like, what the fuck, man? Everybody has a fantasy life. What's great about this scene is Captain Janeway pushes back hard. She's like, what have you been doing to our family dog?

Killing each one over a period of months. How dare you? You kind of wonder when the 25th Amendment kicks in. In this episode, like, we're like, go on. Not quite to the halfway mark, but pretty close. And Janeway has been seeing shit that's not there the whole time. Yeah. When our arrangements made to take her out of the command structure, and when Mrs. Templeton jumps her with a knife in her own quarters, and she comes to in six Bay is the when they they realize like she's gonna have to put your

coat in charge and it's tough right because there's like this big touchy diplomatic thing coming up with the baffles. She doesn't want to be off work, but she's just not well. I love how they don't treat you like a baby here with this delusion. Like the cut to the corridor isn't in a fish island. The music cue doesn't change. You're really with her all the way. And I love that it feels so real instead of beginning camp

there. By the time she's back in Six Bay and Tuvac is waking her back up from the delusion, it really feels startling. It's well done. Tuvac seemed a little bit un-volking. You are all right. Captain! He ruffs much seemed a little bit un-volken. You are all right. Captain! He ruffs her up a little bit, like airplane.

Yeah, yeah. He doesn't neckpinsure or anything. Yeah. But, um, Kess is like telling the captain, like, I'm starting to perceive some stuff too. I think that you're not the only person that's being affected by this. Something fishy is going on here. Yeah. So, Chico is going on here. So Chicoete takes over, he's going to be the one to conduct their negotiations with their

potential hosts in this part of space. And it's a bit of a tricky thing because the botan guy on the screen claims to be very particular about matters of protocol. Chicoete has to kind of explain, well, our protocol is that I'm in command right now. Our protocol is Captain Janeway. Can't come to the phone right now. Can I take a message?

Right. Yeah. Your policy is that you don't take returns after seven days. My policy is this was broken and I couldn't get here before seven days. Chicoate is like our whole party is here. like Captain Janeway is just parking the car, okay? You can seat our party now.

We didn't want to pay the valet, okay? Sue us. Toovat kills the transmission here of his own volition. I was shocked see this as an opportunity to grow. Make it yourself. Tovot kills the transmission here of his own volition. I was shocked by this. Yeah. It's kind of freelance move here. Freelance move, but everybody agrees like something weird is going on.

We think there are ships decloking off the port and starboard bows. BDUGS has a great take here. Did you notice this? He wheels around at the helm and he's got a total like open mouth take at the end I think there's cloak chips out there I think there's good chips out there

True enough there are and this turns into a space battle pretty quickly and the bangers They're not just happening on the bridge. They have been unknown and six. Chico Teas, like, you guys were the ones that were paranoid about us. Why are you attacking? Yeah, I kind of wondered if this was gonna go the direction of like, well, we had to assess the abilities of your ship in combat direction because that was kind of the line that this bottom guy was pursuing.

And I don't remember if his voice sounded to anything like that, but. This is a fun hackmen and crimson tide moment once the once the bangers get dropped Captain Janeway like feels the bangers and she's like I'm I'm going to the bridge. She she checks herself out of the hospital. Things are not going great on the bridge. It's gonna be your leaf when the doors open. There's no girders down. Right. Yeah, that's true. There's some sparks flying, but no girders. There's no one for it. Captain Janeway to a bend. Yeah, yeah, that's true. There's some sparks flying, but no girders are coming. There's no one for a captain, Janeway, to a bend. Yeah, yeah.

She gets on the FaceTime, and it's no longer the Batha guy. It's Tom Mervins. Tom Mervins and yet another beloved dog. That he's choking. Tom Mervins is like, this is sprinkles. That's who Janeway sees, but we kind of cut around the bridge

and we see who other people see. We see who Chicote sees. It's spirit Mervyns. Yeah. We see who Tom paracies. It's Admiral Mervyns. We see who, Ensign Kim sees. It's Mervyns Delaney.

Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. We get actually get to get inside two vox head a little bit and see she who is his wife. Yeah. And we like go to Vulcan with him and stuff. It's interesting whose imagination we get to live inside and who's we don't. There are so many moments in this episode where I'm like, wow, I kind of thought that this was a Janeway episode. But I guess it's a guess episode or I guess it's a two-vac episode. Like it really does a nice job of passing the baton from character to character and like letting us feel how this was for them in a way that I think is really hard to do.

It's gotta be crazy to be the actor who played Libby. To like her, she hasn't even left the parking lot from shooting her episode a couple of episodes ago when her character is being referred to again. Yeah, yeah. On a subsequent episode. Yeah. That's gotta be a special kind of anguish

for an actor, right? To know there's a possibility there of returning and not getting one. Right, you gotta hope that you're gonna be like a running concern as an actor. I mean, anytime you get cast and not getting one. Right. You got to hope that you're going to be like a running concern as an actor. I mean, anytime you get cast and not killed, you hope like, oh, maybe they liked me and they'll bring me back. Yeah. If either of us played Libby, we would be very hurt by this moment.

Yeah. It's like devastated. Take it super personal. Yeah. I thought it was interesting. This is one of the areas where I think that the episode maybe is a little bit weak in its own internal logic, which is that Janeway seems like way more immune, suddenly than everyone else. I think it's weak across the board with how

some people succumb to it extremely and others don't. And then sometimes they succumb to it and snap out of it. Yeah. And sometimes others don't. And sometimes some charactersumb to it and snap out of it. Yeah. And sometimes others don't. And sometimes some characters are just fine until the very end and there's no real explanation for that math. Like we cut down to engineering and BLT is like walking around and all of her staff are just like standing there.

That's creepy as hell. I like that part. I mean, I like it too, but I don't know why she is not subject to the same shit because eventually she is not subject to the same shit because eventually she is like eventually She's horning it up with Chico Te and it's like her fantasy of getting it on with the first officer That moment escalates so fast. I was shocked So shocked by it. I was like well, certainly we're gonna cut back to another character But no we cut into the fucking bedroom. I'm going to fill you up. What? I'm going to fill you up.

Just let me do the talking. When we cut to the bridge, we see Paris fucking as dad. We get to see everyone fucking their hallucination. Yeah. And it's a real like hate fuck with Paris and his dad. Yeah. Like, you can tell that they don't get along great, but they're, but they're still horny as hell for each other. Yeah. Sometimes a hate fuck is just the thing. Yeah. Yeah. So Janeway has starts to realize that she's going to have to take my advice.

You're going to come too early, just like you always do. You always say you're going to keep it up for a long time, but you can't. It's going to be another teaspoon of disappointment from you. Look at that very disappointing dick and balls. You don't even look related to me, you're old man, with this great big thick dick and balls. Look at all the pips I can put on the sides of this bad boy. The Paris line is truly broken with you. Ha ha ha ha.

We were legendary for our hogs and now... I could dangle and dress uniform up at this sack. Ha ha ha ha. I try my true- You're not my real son. Of course it's locked in. Do it. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do Here, not my real son. Of course, it's locked in. What? This one didn't mean very careful, because I'm

only going to say this once. Captain Janeway can't get a hold of anyone. Yeah. At all. And we get a number of scenes like this from a variety of people. Like, will anyone answer this call, this general ship-wide call? And so she gets on the elevator to go down to engineering.

The plan is like they can do something with the warp field to like break up whatever signal is affecting them. But hopping on the elevator, she first finds a catatonic chico-tei who never made it to engineering, who then morphs into Tom Mervins and he's like, hey, I got a new puppy. Brand new puppy. What do you think of this? Boston Terrier, nothing like the dogs we've had before. And then the puppy starts fucking Tom Mervins. Fucking sick.

Oh, nist. This scene is so important. You have to run into Chico Tei again to believe that he didn't just finish fucking BLT. And he's like covered in Gach in the turbo lift. Like if you don't get this scene, you believe it happened. Right. Yeah, I was glad that it didn't,

because I think that there's something very interesting about the idea that it, BLT doesn't even seem to like really be in touch with that instinct in herself. She is surprised by the fact that she's fucking Chico Tei almost. Does the shaft match the forehead? You're asking if he has don'tats? Yes. Well, if he does, they're extremely inaccurate.

I'm sure. Yeah, that's, that's's I'm sure one he regrets. The Tom Mervyn's delusion is effective because by the time the turbo lift doors open like Janeway's catatonic. She's under the spell of whatever this is. It's cut from her making out with Tom Mervyn's two doors opening and she's standing by herself with a thousand yards there. I thought it would have been great if Chico De had just been standing right behind her.

I wanted that too. I think that's a bit of a continuity error. Yeah, that would have been great. But I think honestly the difficulty of selling that shot and having it not look silly. And that be a laugh. Yeah, I think that's tough. Yeah, I wonder if they shot it both ways

and like saw how it played in the edit. I wonder that because every time you see main cast characters in that catatonic state, I feel if they shot it both ways and like, saw how it played in the edit. I wonder that because every time you see main cast characters in that catatonic state, I feel like they're singles or you're panning on the bridge and you're seeing all of them in succession. Right. There might be something about seeing them together that would just look weird.

Yeah, we're down to the doctrine cast. They are the only two people aboard the ship that seemed to have been able to resist this so far. And the doctors like, listen cast, like, I'm stuck in here. You've got to go down to engineering and finish whatever BLT started. And Kess is like, I've been training with medicine, not with engineering. I don't know what the hell anything does down there. I could push a button and eject the warp core.

When the doc asks her how hard can it be? That is such an amazing Star Trek question. And I was stuck in that moment for a long time thinking about it because the computer could be a TI-82 graph incalculator where you need specific intelligence to get it to create the thing you wanted to create right or You're like hey computer. How do I eject the warp core teach teach me? And it happens like that, or just do it for me, computer. I can't just eject the warp core for anyone who asks, what are you, nuts? What kind of computer is it?

We find out that she has to like manually insert an algorithm later on. So it's a bit more the TI-83. It's very... It's very... It's being an extremely bad look of Kest steps up to the station and she can do something very complex that people have gone to Starfleet Academy for many years to learn how to do. Yeah.

It's a human sister. I know of this. I mean, it definitely reminded me of that meme that goes around sometimes that's like the screenshot from Tumblr of somebody describing Starfleet. People is just like the hold my beer of technology users. Like, yeah, our ship barely works, and it's always breaking, and we just like fix it on the fly,

and deal with whatever situation. Right. So she heads down there, she passes Burn Victim Tom Paris in the hallway, which is the first indication that she may be starting to succumb to some of these delusions herself, but she kind of powers through it. Great, great performance by B.Dunk's here. B.Dunk's does a great job. Nelix comes in. He has kind of the last ditch effort to try and stop this process that Cass is going to try and put into place. Or seems like he might be until she gets her own Bernie Boyle's all over her face.

It looks like the ZX gas from the rock. It's one of those things we wish we could disin that. I really had cystic acne flashbacks in this scene. Oh no. Very painful, very haunting to see again. I was eating a sauteed kale that was left overs from a few days ago. We were just in the northern part of the state,

my wife and I, and we brought- And a part of California's gold. Wow. Yeah, and a part of California's gold, and we brought some leftovers home, and I was eating this kale, and I was like 85% sure it hadn't spoiled, but kale has some intense aftertaste,

and I was like, is this my tasting mold? I'm not sure if I'm tasting mold. And this popped on screen. Well, I had a mouthful of that. And I was like, oh, nasty. I love the choice here to not just do a little, but to do a lot. Yeah.

Because the way Jennifer Leigh and sells her pain is consistent with what you're seeing on her face. Yeah. And I don't wanna see five out of five pain and five out of five pus. I wanna see 10 out of 10 pus and 10 out of 10 pain. And that's what you get here. The doc has to like talk her into powering through it.

Neelix like shuts the FaceTime. I like evil Neelix. Yeah. He's cool. And somehow she is able to mirror effect the pus onto him. Yeah. Which is like picking up on that mechanic that is established in the first scene where she repels the creepy little girl. Yeah. So he is a writhing on the floor and changes shape and we finally get a good look at this creepy alien for the first time because

Kess has been able to trigger the effect activates the warp field saves the day and everybody starts snapping to it and this alien is like in a heap on the floor because he was subject his own medicine I guess. I love this guy's performance this big psionic energy that he's got. I love this guy's performance. This big psionic energy that he's got. He's clearly like, quote unquote, captured here. And everyone is treating him like he's captured. Yeah. But he's not treating the situation like he's captured.

Yeah. Almost felt like a Deus Ex Machina that he just disappears. But there is a kind of Star Trek episode that is about, like, space is a mysterious place and crazy shit can happen to you and you have no control over it if you undertake to go on adventures in outer space. So a few times in Star Trek that thing goes away and you never know where it came from or if it existed in the first place. That twilight zone aspect to this episode is what I really enjoyed. Yeah, yeah, it does not feel satisfying,

but I think that that's the point. You're not like, well, we'll never have to deal with that guy again. It's like, wow, we might have to deal with that fucking guy again. I'm glad we have Kess because he was like really scared of her. She's the one person on board that he was scared of. I'm not so sure I got that read. I thought he was utterly confident at his situation

and was not afraid of anyone. He was just annoyed that Cass outed him. Because he's like, you've got some game. You're a powerful little thing. Yeah, I think it was a game respect game thing there, more than anything. Yeah. But like, a game respect game in a way that I think that he is fucked around and found out and I don't think he's going to fuck around again. He's going to take a break from fucking around. Yeah. You watch a lot of Frazier, right? Did you recognize this guy?

I have not watched a lot of Frazier. I thought you were doing a Frazier rewatch recently. I've been working with you. Cheers man. Very slowly. It's a it's like a It's very slowly. It's like a Laded night we got maybe a half hour in us not not a full hour long television program. This guy who played the both in Patrick Kerr was like a regular character on Frazier like a featured player on Frazier whose character was known for being obsessed with Star Trek I need Scott Bacchial's autograph to make my collection complete. Typecasting. Wow. I thought he was great in this episode. Yeah, very good energy.

Very menacing alien and real creepy. Like when we get to see his face finally, like, ooh, do not trust, do not like. The vacant eyes of a creep. The button on the episode is in the Mess Hall. It follows a brief captain's log where Janeway can't explain what happened or if it happened at all. And that's that creepy vibe we were alluding to earlier where it feels very twilight zone. You be able to teach that up, Janeway in the Mess Hall. Clearly the thought weighing

heavily on her mind, the idea of maybe being attracted to Chico-te, yeah, mind fucking him clearly, do I want to actually do this? Being the like implied question. And triple and quadruple checking with Janeway that Chico-te was in that turbo with them earlier. Like he was definitely in there, right? And that was not Chico-te prime, I was fucking. Yeah, they kind of agree agree like there were things that were revealed to them about things that are happening inside their own minds that they didn't care for How do you recover from this? Like we make the joke all the time about like wow they were just gonna turn the page and do another episode next week and there will be no

Reference to the one that came before This seems like something you need a moment to just sort of sit with. You need some time to do some work. Yeah. Maybe a little EMDR, a little havin'ing. Yeah. Everybody got like their worst thought. Yeah.

And I think that these are relatable in the way of like there are things that occur to me in my mind that I would never give voice to. It just like pop into your head and then you're like, wow, I can't believe that thought happened to me. Right. And they had to like live with those as being real for a second. As delusions. Right.

Yeah. It's tough. It ends like it's totally unsolved. Like it's a stare off into the middle distance and then we throw to credits. Yeah. And I kind of like that about the end. I do too. Did you like the whole episode, though, Adam?

Yes, and through it. You know, in one of the U.S.S. you're a boy, do it. Captain, the Captain. You know, in one of the U.S. you're a boy, do it. I had a really hard time with the inconsistency of how the dementia was spread around the crew. I guess I can get with the idea that if it's a wave, like if it's a physical thing, as I think they alluded to earlier when they're scanning it, they're like, this wave is crashing

into us and it's affecting the crew. I can get with it hitting some crew people first and building up in them before it moves on to others and maybe it's not a symmetrical wave. Maybe it's oozing through the ship in some weird way. But I don't like how long I lived with the question of why BLT was moving on about her business for as long as she was. Like, yeah, whenever you else in her section was not able to anymore. Any stitch of dialogue, I feel like could have helped, like her proximity to the warp core, she older temporarily from it.

Like, yeah, or there was like the implication that like looking at the view screen was, was a problem for the people on the bridge. So if they'd been like, if she'd been like, yeah, I was like working on this algorithm. So I didn't, that wasn't monitoring communications. I don't know. But that thing you were describing at the end about like the all-powerful beingness of who we got to meet and the mystery of where they came from or if they existed at all, superseded that weakness in the episode to me that made it one that I really liked watching and talking about.

Like it was weird as hell. It was a great, weird episode. And I think the mystery of his character does so much to compensate that I honestly think that like I could watch it three more times and feel like, oh, like there is actually like a really consistent logic to this that I just didn't like I could watch it three more times and feel like, oh, like there is actually like a really consistent logic to this that I just didn't get because it's like a little bit subtle or something.

Like I, it's an episode that I would like gladly rewatch, which if I felt like it was a train wreck, I wouldn't feel that way about, you know? Yeah, one of those episodes that is probably more fun to talk and joke about than it would be to like scrutinize academic. Yeah, maybe it would fall apart under more scrutiny. A serious Star Trek podcast would hate this episode, but not us. Yeah, we're not serious. Yeah, we're bad at this. Speak for yourself. You know, uh, who's good at stuff is our listeners at leaving priority one messages at them. good at stuff is our listeners at leaving priority one messages at them. Do you want to head into the inbox and see what we have waiting for us? We've got no choice. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel.

Need a supplement on top. Yes, extra. The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship? Well, our first priority on message is from Jake aka Defested. We've heard of Defested. Sure have. And it's to Rebecca and Joe in Bristol. It was like this.

But this while viewing the finale of GG colon DS9 as it dropped. Hoping this was a better use of my money than screwing hedge fund managers by buying games, dumb. Wow, was that happening right as our, it must have been. I always love the idea of screwing hedge fund managers though. Yeah, that's it. So pick your boys, I guess.

I mean, there's few better uses of money than that, better, but maybe getting a P1 is one. Thanks Becca and Jo for showing me GG when we all lived in England together, miss you both. There's a reason my license plate became Borgs when I moved back Stateside. Wow! How was that one even available? Damn Borgs! That is great. I

wonder if I'll ever see Defested out there on those on those highways and byways, Adam. He's looking now. Probably see Defested over on Twitch. Borax. That's really good. Yeah, that's great. Thanks, Defested, for getting a P1. Do you think Defested has not just the customized Borg's license plate, but it's also like the design one, like the whale tail. Or like the square dance one, or whatever. Ben, our second priority one message is from Matt L from Utah. I see AC. Does that mean something?

Should I know what that means? I don't know what that means. It is to Ben Adam Rob and my twin brother Jason. The message goes like this. Thank you so much for the show. You remain a needed respite from a challenging ICAC prosecution career as I listen on my lunch break along the river path by my office. Or along the route by my pandemic satellite office, which is the kitchen table. Thank you, Ben and Adam. Also, I wanted to tell my twin brother Jason L. I love him and he is amazing. Man, I think we met Matt L. after a live show one time.

Are you sure that wasn't Jason L, though? Oh, I'm not positive, but I think I recently discovered a challenge coin from ICAC. That's in my away bag. I knew it was familiar. Yeah, because I was just on that trip and I was like, oh, what's this challenge coin in here? And I was reminded of this. I think Matt prosecutes people who do bad things to kids and that has got to be really, really hard thing to live with on a day-to-day basis. So we really appreciate that work.

Matt's doing great work out there, thanks Matt. Yeah, shout out to Jason L. Thank you for... Also probably fine at whatever Jason L does. also also doing meaningful work. I'm sure You know, not everybody has to work at ICAC You know like we need it takes all all all forms Like people people ask Jason L if he's Matt L And he's got to be like no, I don't work at ICAC and that's fine. I still have a good job. I'm not.

Or maybe I don't have a job and that's also okay. Yeah. Why do we have to conform to these capitalistic ideals of what is a useful person? Like, why is the first question that is asked of a stranger often? What do you do? Why should that matter? Yeah, it's fucked up. Also, why do twins always play pranks on us

But I thank you to Matt L and thank you to defested a K.A. Jake for getting p ones Jake also probably as a fine job or not We we could never know I mean Jake is Jake is probably just ripping off hedge fund managers by tricking them into shorting stocks that they shouldn't short. I'd leave Greatest Jen to do that professionally. Wow. Shoot.

OK, well, we're here. We're going to be putting up a casting call pretty soon for the newest co-host of the Greatest Generation. Watch Matt L. apply for that job. It's like, I'm ready to take a break from ICAC. Yeah. Gonna have a lot of pathos to draw on, I bet. Yeah.

There's a comic voice. But thanks to everyone who got a P1, I had to do maximumfund.org. So I ask Jembo Tron if you would like to get one. It's a 100 bucks for a personal message and a promotional message and they help support the production of the show. We love them. We love them.

You know, I'm maybe even to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bollies, I don't like friends, and I don't like you. Love this too. Hey Adam. It's Epin. Did you find yourself a drunk? Shimon. I thought for sure it was going to be Janeway for that power move of checking yourself out of

the hospital. I love that move every time. But the more I think about it, I think I'm going to give it to B-Dunks. That, what he does out in the hallway with the facial fry, I loved. I responded to it deeply. It seems like a hard thing to do to be convincingly in pain like that and have like that low fall over your face. Yeah.

I think he was fairly persuasive. I was surprised that Kess had such an easy time leaving him. That's how strong I felt his performance was there. It was hard to watch. And that scene works so well because of how hard it is to watch. Yeah. It feels like a trick, like he's not actually hurt, and Cass walks away. It has no impact. Yeah.

So really nicely done. He is also my lunchimodo. Oh! I have never seen Varsity Blues, the movie, or the television show. What? But everyone knows I don't want your laugh. I've never seen Varsity Blues, the movie or the television show. What? But everyone knows I don't want your life and the way he talks to his dad. Yeah.

Really, really took me back to that James Vanderbeak moment in that trailer that I have seen. And a big moment. I get to kick out of his whole performance in this episode. Wow. Yeah. High praise for Robert Duncan McNeil. Yeah, indeed. Who we're trying to make B-Dunk's a thing.

Yeah, we gotta make B-Dunk's a thing. I mean, nobody tell him before us. We wanna be the people that break that to him. When we meet him in a convention wearing the Air Jordan logo shirt that is instead B-Dunk's. Hahaha. Coming soon to the expert ShimBridshimoto online store.

Yeah, let that be us. All right. Well, Adam, we got to start talking about plans for the future. Oh, yeah. I mean, a lot of... Got a couple of job openings. A lot of plans for the future happening here and at the Expedition mode, a corporation. Yeah.

One of those is what episode we'll be watching next and how we'll be watching it. Of course, our next episode is season two, episode nine of Star Trek Voyager. It's called Tattoo. Chacote is stranded on a moon inhabited by natives with ties to his ancestors. Oh, I'm gonna to love this episode.

This is going to be great. This is, we are sailing into dangerous. We're going to, we're going to learn about the Dictatu, this episode. Huh? We're going to learn about the Dictatu. We're going to learn fake shit about a native culture. We're going to, we're going to know what's in his bindle. Yeah. Wow.

We also have to figure out how we're gonna be doing it though. So I gotta head to god.biz. Slush game. Yeah, which recently sent us down to the beginning. Once again, we skipped over the Mornhammered and we're back at one. Back to one we could hit a delta flyer, a Janeway, which would take us up to his eyes uncovered square.

That's the Tamarion 5 Tamarion saying's one. Yeah, Tamarion metaphor square could be in our future, but that's the only thing we can hit. Otherwise a regular old episode is guaranteed. Well one in six chance to have something interesting happen next week. You're required to learn as you play roll. All right Adam, I'm going to go ahead and roll this bone. Shula! Did I win? All of it. Wow, big roll. I hit the six.

We're on Squarespace 7. Regular old episode next week, my friend. Big roll. That puts us on the doorstep of that caretaker. We're only three squares away from the caretaker. So, she could happen, man. Banjo man looms over our runabout right now. I'm fine with that.

It's been a long time since we've been in proximity to banjerman. Yeah, it's been almost two months. I know It's been a lot longer since we've done the show in person. It's feel it feels good to have done It does feel good to have done it feels good to do it for the friends of DeSoto and we really appreciate the friends of DeSoto For listening thanks to everyone who listens thanks to everyone who leaves a nice review or even good to do it for the Friends of Disotto and we really appreciate the Friends of Disotto for listening. Thanks to everyone who listens, thanks to everyone who leaves a nice review, or even does the big thing and heads to MaximumFund.org slash join and becomes a supporter of the show. All of that support is really deeply appreciated. If you'd like to get involved with the community aspects of being a friend of DeSoto, we really encourage it.

There are great Facebook groups. There's the DrunkShamota.com Discord. There's the Reddit. There are the hashtags, Greatest Jan and Greatest Discovery on Twitter, where we have social media account at Greatest Trek. We also have at Greatest Trek on Insta. Those are run by our buddy, Bill Tilly, the Card Daddy, who we are able to pay for his services due to the generous support of the friends of DeSoto. Love the Card Daddy. Do love that. Love all these communities out there that are 99.99% positive and fun.

I don't feel like many fan communities can say that. That's true. It's really true. I love it and it's something that I'm proud of. I'm proud of it and I have no responsibility for it. Yeah, we really can't claim any of the accolades for that. It's probably great because I didn't do it. We got to thank Adam and Gussia who made the original theme song, a Janeway song for this show.

Of course, we're working off of the Picard song made by Dark Materia, who granted us permission to use that all those years ago. Thanks to both of you. And if you're interested in cooking, Adam Ragusia is now a super, super successful. YouTube cook, teach you how to cook delicious food and learn about the science behind it and how things are produced and why you should care. Check it out, Ad for Guicia on YouTube. And with that, we will be back at you. Next week with another great episode of Star Trek Voyager, an episode of the greatest generation Voyager, we're really bringing in a consultant, like somebody to kind of like talk us through the sensitivities of talking about a subject like this, but they Make it sound, make it sound. Make it sound.

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