The Greatest Generation - The Husk Shot is Verboten (S5E17)

Episode Date: March 6, 2017

When the Entrepreneur finds an area of space that does not conform with the crew's preconceptions, they aren't sure which pronouns to use to describe it. They face a similar challenge addressing a race of people inhabiting a nearby planet, which inspires Commander Riker to employ some Pea Soup diplomacy. Can we finally be funny about a serious story? How do you get stink off of a main character? What color is Worf's boogie board? It's the episode that features a brand new Previa!

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Welcome to the greatest generation. It's a Star Trek podcast. By two guys, you're a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast.

I'm your host, Adam Pranica. I'm your other host, Benjamin R. Harrison. Ben, if it's okay with you, I would like to use our Mark Marin open, inspired by Mark Marin's podcast, where he takes the first couple of minutes to monologue about whatever zone is mind. I'd like you for explaining that joke to me, Adam. Yeah, I think more and more people have been confused about that reference. We call it the Marin open because that's what Mark Marin does on his podcast. And I've been an admirer of his show for a long time. Yeah, it's a good show.

Ben, we are just now getting back on the podcast horse after a long layoff. I've been out of town for a couple of weeks. Sure, no. And so since getting back home and sort of returning to the administration of the pod, I just sort of read some feedback to our episode, violations, the Troy episode, the Troy mind rape episode. That was the episode that was most scary for us to do, I think, of any episode. Yeah, I saw that this was one of our most listened to episodes ever. Whoa.

I think it's top 10, even, and I don't know why that is. But I listened to it again, and I read all the favorable reviews, and I felt bad about that, because I don't feel comfortable with taking the credit for being a good person in that way. Like while I was away on vacation, I went back and listened to this episode and by and large I found it sober and unfunny. I thought we did a good job with it with a difficult episode in a challenging scenario, but it made me think a lot about what we try to do, what I try to do personally

on the show. And it didn't feel like our show in a specific way. And it felt scared in a way that I'm not proud of. Because I would like to consider myself, and I would like to consider you brave, like comedically, like brave enough to make a bad joke, brave enough to take some shit on the internet about saying something awkwardly. And this is shit that we've taken before for being inarticulate about something that we should be more sensitive about and so

What I'm trying to say here is like I really appreciate our viewers ability to have this conversation about an episode like that with each other. I am appreciative that they Were grateful that we were able to do an episode like that without shitting all over ourselves and being awful about a difficult topic. But the thing I feel bad about is taking credit for being a good person because I don't think that I personally deserve that kind of credit because like I didn't feel like I was deserving of any praise for being as safe as I was in that episode. Because I didn't feel like I was deserving of any praise

for being as safe as I was in that episode. And I've just thought a lot about that. And I don't know if you feel that way, the way I feel that way about that episode, or if this is just way pod-on-pod, like way too much pod-on-pod to even have a conversation like this in the open, but what do you think?

I haven't thought about this quite as deeply as you have, but like in you bringing it up one thing I'm thinking is I noticed in myself that I was not nearly as engaged with the kind of, every time we put up an episode there's always a couple of Reddit threads about it and a series of posts in the Facebook group about various things that come up on an app and usually it's just kind of like yes, and the jokes and having fun with the thing that we had fun with. And I pretty much ignored the conversation about that episode. I think I kind of took a quick survey of it to make sure that we weren't really hurting anybody because I think that while we were careful, I still, you know, when we hit publish on that one, I was still, you know, wanted to make sure that we weren't

putting something out there that was gonna ruin anybody's day because that's really not what we're about. Yeah, and I wanna be clear that like I don't regret not hurting people's feelings. Like that's not what it is at all. There's something. Yeah, well I think what I'm saying is like, I kind of felt the same way. Like I didn't want to go in and get my back padded

because I didn't feel like that was why we did it that way. You know, like we got accused of making quote, because I didn't feel like that was why we did it that way. You know, like we got accused of making, quote, rape jokes and making light of child rape, which is not really something that we're about. And in my, you know, personal assessment of our jokes on that, I didn't think that we were doing a joke where the victim of a sexual assault was the butt of it.

Right. Like the joke was that this show heavily implied sexual assault without realizing that that's what it was doing. Like what a fucking bonehead move and that's hilarious. But also like the circumstance between two fake people in a fake future that could be deviant. Yeah, we took a ton of shit for playing with that as a premise.

And you can't record a podcast and put it out there and then control how everybody experiences it. And I'm sure that there were people that experienced that and had an authentic like negative reaction to those jokes, I think there was a lot of concern trolling going on when people would sling shit at us online. And maybe we felt a little gun shy about getting more of that type of trolling in the violations episode. Right. I mean, it should be very clear by now to you and everyone else that like we don't rehearse or pre-talk about how we do this show, we just get into it. And that includes our opening.

Like, I sprung this on you. Well, I think one thing is that one thing. Mostly because I didn't want us to overthink a conversation like this. I want it to be true. And there was something. Yeah. There was something about the violations episode that felt less than true for us. And I, I'm having a hard time describing it any more than that. Well, I think that a lot of the a lot of the comedy in our show comes out of like twanging on corny shit that happens in this TV series. Like it's a show that we love, but there's a lot of corny ass shit that goes on. And it's hard to gleefully twang on an episode that's as sincere an exploration of a very troubling subject as that.

By contrast, when Picard and Wesley have a weird interaction, it's very funny, you know? Yeah, so I mean like one thing I thought about in putting that one up was like I wanted to kind of warn people going in because I know that the subject matter can be like really upsetting for some people and I'm like I don't want somebody to put our show on while they're like commuting to work or something and have a fucking meltdown because we were assholes about something that's really serious.

Yeah, absolutely. That is something that is inarguable for us. Like that's not our way or our brand. I don't regret our choices on that episode, but I know what you mean. Like it didn't quite feel like, I just don't know like how we bring ourselves to just have a joke fest about something like that.

You know, I just don't, I don't know like if there's a solution to that problem. I'm not advocating for a joke fest about the mind rate episode. I'm not advocating for a joke fest about the mind-rape episode. I guess by saying all of this, I'm also preparing us for the episode today, which is like very clearly the Transgender Alligory episode of the show. And so like, I have full confidence that we are going to be considerate and good and mindful, but I also think we're going to be funny.

Why start now? I think we can put together a good and funny show about this subject. Well, Adam, I know that you're gonna be funny, and I have about a 50-50 batting average, so here's hoping we come out on top. All right, season season five episode 17 Oh, this one's called the outcast bin

We opened the episode with wharf back at work Standing at the at the back of the horseshoe. He horseshoe. He doesn't even have a stool to sit on. He's returned right to work. So presumably this is like six months later. Full recovery. Yeah, so the entrepreneur is helping the Janai find a missing shuttlecraft of theirs. And the opening captain's log, Picard,

is setting the stage and works in that the Janai are and Drogenis, kind of like when somebody like unnecessarily works the race of somebody into a story that they're telling. Like, you know, I was at the grocery store and there was this black guy in front of me in line. And he asked me to like hold this place in line. And then took five minutes to go find whatever he was running to go get.

Yeah, like he sort of thanksgiving dinners. The scenario. Yeah. Like, come on, Grandpa. Like, that is not germane to the story. Yeah, the guy was just looking for butter. His ethnic background has nothing to do with this fucking story. Like Picard's going on and on about the Korean War,

the forgotten war. Like, we get it, we've seen the medals. Well, I think they have a spot in space that they're pretty confident it's going to be and they launch a probe and the probe disappears. We've talked about this a little bit in the last episode, Adam. Losing a probe is no good. You want a flared base so that it doesn't slip in because once it slips in, there's no getting it out.

Yeah, then you got to go to an emergency room Yeah, and you know explaining how this this happened. It's never fun, you know You end up on those fun medical story reddit threads. Yeah, or like stories from nurses. Yeah, like a like a trade paperback of early Stories from vice magazine You do not want to make that edition of the Lancet. Well, the Genai are all hanging around. And this is one of those races where you're like, are these guys in the Federation, are they just pals at the Federation?

What's the tradition adjacent? Yeah, like they don't seem to be in the federation because it's like one of those, we're learning all about these people. You know, it's one of those planets where like this is the only example of these people will ever encounter. Like they're not, they're not like the klingons where they're like colonizing a region of space. They're not the cardassians, they're not like a power of any kind.

They're not even like chaotic bros where they're like, oh yeah, you see one on a starship vaping away every so often. They're just a one off. Like if we're just gonna make an alien, we can make it, we can make this alien look however we like. And so to make a gender to this alien and however we like. And so, to make a genderless alien and

drudgeness is a choice. Like, you could make an alien that's genderless that looks like a Klingon or looks like chaotic bro. Right. So, it was interesting to me the way that they world built the genie. Like, they all have a little bit of headloaf. They all look like they cut their own bangs. But they're also very unimotive in a strange way. And that's a choice too, right?

They don't use contractions, they kind of have a data like lilt in their speech. To what degree is gender tied to emotion or appearance? Like, they're making pretty specific choices here that serve to illustrate a transgender allegory. Yeah, so transgender is like the thing that my mind leaps to here. I think in the era that this was shot, it was much more about like what if it was, you know, it's like, what if gay people were the huge majority and they discriminated against straight people as badly as straight people discriminated against gay people? Right. And like at the time that this show was made like gender

and sexuality were conflated in this way. Exactly. And it's so amazing this moment in history to be revisiting this and have it feel just as relevant to the trans battle that's taking place. Like all of these people that have come so far on their understanding of sexuality are like have learned no lessons from that when it comes to the gender discussion. Right, right. And you see it in the conversations

that the crew has amongst themselves about the Jynar. Like everyone has a moment of grandpa at Thanksgiving pretty much. Yeah. The first one to have such a moment is Riker because he says that for two days I've been trying to construct sentences without personal pronouns. Now I give up, what should I use it to us as a root? And they're like, you can't use, you gotta use a gender neutral pronoun or nothing at all. And there is no gender neutral pronoun in English,

which is, you know, really dates this, right? Like we have gender neutral pronouns. Like better people that go they them, there's like the X, E, which I don't, I'm not red a million times, but I don't know how to pronounce. Right, right. Like there's lots of things that could be done with this, but like, that's one thing that this script completely misses on as the pronoun thing.

Riker is the proxy for the viewer in this case, because Riker is the one that is learning, along with the viewer about how this works. The other thing he's learning is that Soren, this Junai who has become friendly with him, is a dope-ass pilot, and they're going to attempt to modify a shuttle to go figure out the shape of this weird area of space that their probe and earlier the Junai shuttle disappeared into. Yeah, it's it's called null space. They really don't give us much information on how this works. The way that null space presents is like it's just sort of anti space, right? Yeah, it's I guess they're

saying it's some sort of accidental byproduct of the way their solar system formed, but yeah, I mean, it's like... Did you find this scientific concept and awkward sidecar to the gender conversation being had this episode? Because I sure did. They're just as just as unsure how to go about discussing Nell's face as the gender. Right. That's exactly where I went. Oh that's fun. They're doing their

science on this figuring out how to rescue the the missing Janai shuttle and meanwhile you know Riker and Soren are getting to know each other better and they're having a lot of like birds and bees type conversations about their different species. Commander, tell me about your sexual organs. Ah, fuck. Because the first thing you do in a work relationship is talk about sex, right? Well, you know, like certain, certain, certain, certain office environments are different from others.

And that's true. I feel like if you're on a starship, like that's gotta come up, right? Like what if you're that guy from, from undiscovered countries got his genitals and his knees? That was not his knee. You know, working on a starship. And somebody's like,

hey, can you like kneel over there? And, you know, I don't know. Like look under that bulkhead for something, like, no, I can't kneel. Not everybody keeps their genitals in the same place, Captain. The guy's gonna have to put down a towel before doing any basic plumbing,

and you're gonna wanna know why. Yeah. Sorin's really curious about how sexuality works with humans and Reiker is pretty happy to discuss it like in a in sort of a cool dad kind of way. He is not ashamed to describe his genitals to someone or explain how pro-creation works. Like he's a little bit like he has riker eyes about being asked the question, but he's not awkward about it. Yeah, he's like, wait a second,

are there sort of commercials about to come? Or? Yeah, like he is praying to be able to explain this off camera yeah so Riker goes down to the Janai homeworld service and is like doing a little PowerPoint presentation on null space and basically like does the inkblot test to the room like the thing on screen is a labia. And why you look at these and tell me what you see. As a pussy. Ladies pussy.

And I laughed out loud at this scene. Like what are you doing? Well, you got to get these slides checked. Have someone else look at the PowerPoint show before you present to these people? This part between the ass and the person. It was horrifying. Yeah. I think that's, that stuff is probably pretty like well established on the entrepreneur, you know?

Riker having some kind of, some kind of obviously sexual stuff through an endeavor presentation. It's like a box art for a Disney film. There's always gonna be a boner or something hidden in there. It's like when you set up a new editing project, like all of your folders are templatized to a certain degree, like his rake of omega three

PowerPoint presentation always begins with something labial. Yeah. And it just goes right over the heads of these jennai, you know? Yeah. It's great. So they come up with this plan, right? Like this thing is dangerous. And they know it's dangerous because they lost a shuttle and a probe in there.

So what they need to do is map it out. They got to find out its boundaries and the way to do that is to hop in an upgraded Previa shuttle. And this set piece is awesome. It's like the, it's not quite the size of a school bus but not a mini bus size. It's like a cozy middle. Sporty flush halogen headlamps, beautifully curved tented glass, and a smart protective side molding give the Previa an exciting aerodynamic look that definitely sets it apart. It's a big Previa. Yeah. And it's beautiful.

Like, this is a great set piece. They even put like a bunk bed kind of off center and foreground to really like show off how fancy this new previs. It's on a little car show turntable that's like slowly rotating. He's bragging on it a little bit. He's like, yeah, she'll do a 0.5 pass light speed. She's got, you know, most of these don't have armaments, but this one's got some special modifications.

So it's like, is that a V8? Like there's like, fuck yeah. V8, fuck that, it's a fucking V12 baby. Yeah, so they hop in the shuttle and they start, Rikers like, so I think we should probably start you off with the simulation and Soren's like, no, like I've been flying since I was a kid. Yeah.

Soren's like, look, I'm gonna, I should fly by myself. Like I can't, I can't ask you to do this. This is a dangerous mission in Rikers. Like, well, why don't, why don't I be your wingman? I'll be your wingman anytime. And so they decide to fly the mission together. Yeah, it's like even more erotic top gun episode. Okay.

As if there wasn't enough. As if there wasn't enough... As if there wasn't enough Eros in the premise of Top Gun. Star Trek is upping the ante with this one. And they keep getting closer and closer. I think they fly an initial mission and they're kind of doing some mapping and they like clip a curb with their you know like dense their dense the hub on one of their wheels and they have to drive back into the garage and get it fixed up but you know in fixing it up like they have like a pretty intense like you

know they're down under the dashboard machining on something and sort of essentially comes out to Riker in this scene, right? I find you attractive. What she confesses is that in their society like... And if it were known on my planet, it would be very dangerous for me. There are people that feel a strong connection to a gender and they're maligned by the genderless cultural dominance or whatever. Yeah.

And the example she uses is like a really, like, contemporarily terrifying story of basically like a Mike Pence reprogramming camp for people who feel a specific gender identity. Like, she talks about this, she went to school with, and like they identified as a certain way, and then they were sent away to a camp, and then they came back all reprogrammed, and.

Yeah, like 1984, like, end of the book, kind of deal where they've kind of lost lost their jua de vive or whatever. You'll be one of us soon. Yeah, pretty dark. It's rough. I mean, and that really describes a real thing that happens to real people still in 2017.

Yep. Which is fucked up. And I mean, like, this is also kind of a revelation because like, they've been hanging, right? Like, they had a... They had to be too. This is also kind of a revelation because they've been hanging, right? They had a hanging 10 forward. Yeah, and at that point, she was like, what do you look for in a woman and Riker kind of talked to her about what he finds attractive in another person?

Like when is intelligent and sure of herself? Like, and talk with and get something back, the most important thing of all. She got a raiders! Soren is cool and fun and smart. Like the woman that Riker describes as his type happens to be Soren. Yeah.

They're interested in each other has not escaped the scrutiny of the people that Soren works with, right? Like there's some, there's some go-to commercial scenes where some associates of Soren sort of look a scant at them. And one of those scenes happens at the end of the 10-forward scene where one of them walks in on a meeting pea soup and Soren like bolts up out of the chair a little defensively. She's like yeah I got to go reorganize my sacked drawer so peace. Yeah I don't think Riker has done the pea soup form of seduction before but it's cool it's like a good way to get to know him like you share the food you grew up with, with a romantic interest.

It's nice. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Wesleyan were born. I tried that. P-Soup is a very divisive soup though. Like, I think you're really going out on a limb with that particular soup. I guess it depends on the recipe, but uh...

My wife, capital H hates pea soup, but like homemade pea soups awesome. Next time you guys come to New York, I wanna try a pea soup out on her, because there's a place literally half a block from my apartment that... Are you kidding on my wife, Ben? It serves a pea soup that is unbelievable.

I mean, like real ham-hawk pea soup? No, it's a Middle Eastern joint, so no pork products present. Don't dig all swine. Which is part of what's really astonishing about this pea soup being delicious. Yeah, that would come as a surprise. I feel like the porkiness is a big part of my enjoyment.

I feel like the the porquiness is a big part of my enjoyment. And for the record, no, I'm not hitting on your wife at him. Just one that's that's once a clipped and abused isn't it that that line? That's one of my favorite drops. I've been I've been systematically going back through past episodes and editing it in. There's also that really dreadful poker scene that we should probably talk about. The doctor, Troy, data and wharf, and they are playing poker and I think that this is probably intended to be a moment of levity in the episode but Worf is presented as being such a ravenous misogynist that it's just like incredibly distracting. 2's, 6's and 8's are wild.

That is a woman's game. It's like, what the fuck is this even in here for? Like, why would you kneecap a character like that? A man's game has no wild cards. It feels like a room writing for a conflict instead of to a character. Much in the same way that Riker had such, you know, out of left field feelings about assisted suicide in the last episode, I feel like they knew that they had to have a conflict at the poker game.

They knew they had to have someone be a misogynist and they just gave it to Wurf because they needed someone to carry that ball. Klingons are somewhat misogynist, but I don't feel like they're this misogynist. I just, it's weird, right? Because I mean, it's one of those, it's one of these scenes and there've been dozens of them in the course of us reviewing this series where I'm like, I don't want to believe this character

thinks like this, so I choose not to. But it's fucking in the show, right? Like, so to some extent it's canonical. It's almost code of honor levels of shitty, you know? And like, I don't know how you get that stink off of a character. Like, we're in, we're at the end of season five. And now you're painting wharf with the misogynist brush, and it's not watercolor.

Like this is fucking acrylic. Yeah. This does not clean off with a little bit of soap and water. Right. You're not going to be able to wash the brush in Kiko's grandma's cup. It's a crazy fringes while we're talking to you face. Are you not finding within yourself? Just stand up, tell the truth. You don't deserve to wear that beautiful. So the space McGuffin has been solved, I guess, and they're getting the shed already

to go on this new mission. And I guess this time they're going to go into the space butthole and get the crew back from the missing ship. Yeah, the first mission was like survey, the second mission is rescue. Right. Because it's sort of a race against time, right? We learned that this Janai shuttle, they know that it's running, but they're sort of running out of resources to keep the crew alive. Right.

They only have a certain number of days left. I think this is maybe Jordy's only scene in the episode and he walks in with a full beard. What? Yeah. How did I miss this? Scrub back through it, dude. Jordy is rockin' full beard.

Like as much beard as Riker in this scene. Whoa. God, like I just watched this episode. I don't know how I missed that part. It's weird, right? I like it. I think he looks great. I think he looks better than normal. He looks he looks great normally He looks even better now. I have a baseline level of beard envy just in general like just in life Mm-hmm. So I'm pro beard mostly because my beard is an atrocity So I'm pro-beard mostly because my beard is an atrocity

And I'm forbidden from trying anymore Oh, yeah, is that a is that part of the prenup? That is I'm contractually obligated. I'm like I'm like a baseball player on the Cincinnati Reds. No beards I've had a beard in the past and it's a it's pretty divisive in my marriage as well. You look great with a beard. I don't have like thick enough beard hair to really pull it off but it's like almost thick enough. It's really tempting for me to have a beard. But it's not quite like Riker has like a nice full thick beard. And I have like kind of just enough patchiness that I wouldn't want anybody to look at it super closely.

I get about four days in for like the span of four or five days and things get awkward in the house. Can't quite put my finger on it. Like attitudes change. Yeah. Well, they go, do their rescue. It goes great. There's like a moment of suspense when they try the transport of the first time and it doesn't work, but then they like, you know, reverse the polarity and patch the, patch the engines into the power system. They beam the unconscious jenai over to the shuttlecraft and then the entrepreneur beams them out of the

space butthole which is I guess they are now in a position where they are happy to burn a Priviac. I guess that means they've just left this nice nice new Prev in the null space, right? I guess when you get into a new model year, they're more, you get more of them, they're more prolific. Yeah. They're more on the lot. Right, so their resale value doesn't stay as good. Yeah, but it is a little sad.

I kind of grew attached to that previa. Yeah, so they have like a little like reception to celebrate the success of the mission and Riker is down there and he's kind of like, he's having a little bit of a leaning wall moment out in the veranda this party and Soren comes out and she's like, hey, uh, there you are commander. I

wondered what had happened to our guest of honor. You want to go do a little nature walk with me and I'll show you some of the local flora and fauna if you get my drift. Maybe you can show me that great big statement. And uh, rakers like yeah. I've always been interested in exopotany. As long as there's some husks to be seen. We never see a husk, do we? No, we never see a husk. Let me ask you a husk.

Let me ask you a question, Ben. If this is what is this 1994 right now, like on the show? Are you allowed to describe something that is used for sex and then show the thing later? Like by describing the husk as a sex device are they disallowed from showing it? Like standards and practices would look a scant at them including a husk shot? Yeah, like I'm wondering if the husk shot is verboten. I don't know. Because I wanted to see that husk. Gotta be honest with you.

Like as a child, I just thought it looked like corn, because that's my only context for husks. Right. Who knows, man? Who knows? You cooked your corn in the husk or you peel it first? What's going on the grill? I'll usually leave the husk on to get some steaming action.

Then I might pull it off and peel it back and get some some browning. See, I'm wondering what kind of peeling and browning the genie do with this husk. I want to know all about it. And the thing is like, rub the corn with some butter and put some parmesan and chili powder on there too. Sounds real warm and nice. Yeah. Like, Sorin's asking all kinds of questions

about human sexuality and Riker. Riker's, Riker learns about the husk. He knows about the husk, but he doesn't really go all the way with the husk in the questions. I think that's a missed opportunity for both the viewer and for Will Riker. Yeah. What isn't a missed opportunity is this

nature-waxing because Riker and Soran get, you know, just far enough into the forest to be out of ear-shout and viz from the party and they start having a sweet, sweet make out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And like it's, it's Soren that sort of initiates, right? Mm-hmm. That's great. Good for Soren, like, in spite of the danger, the danger that she's described,

the danger, I'm calling her she now because she's confided her gender truth to Riker, like, she's down. She's down, and in spite of the many dangers she's going for it. Yeah. She chooses love, then. Yeah, love wins. So Riker gets back up to the ship, and he pays a deonitroid visit to let her know that he's met somebody, you know?

I feel like this is like Imzadi courtesy. Except Troy doesn't observe Imzadi courtesy when she's making out with Jason Schwartzman on the Eugenics planet. Maybe Riker carries a little bit more of a torch for Troy than vice versa. It's a classy thing to do. Yeah.

But I don't know if it's totally necessary. I respect it. Yeah. It's a typically valorous act for Riker William T. I would say. It's a classy move by either party, I would say. Yeah. I guess the deal is like, it is like right after this that he catches Gwynn that Soren's been caught by the like gender police or whatever. They're like holding Soren in a trial. So Riker tries to like storm the trial and go like, no, like I did all of it.

You know, Soren was an unwilling participant and they're like, you know, your stance on consent is pretty well established in this court, sir. And we just don't buy that. We heard about you. Like they just had first contact and they knew about Rikers consent fetish even before he was on the scene. Word gets around fast, you know. Yeah. So yeah, it just doesn't ring true. And Soren is like, yeah, no, that's fucking bullshit. I was like, the case law on Rikers consent.

Yeah. Fills volumes. Yeah. Yeah. So Soren is like, I was having just as much fun as he was. And I'm sick of living a lie. You know, like, let's, let's have a reckoning with this as a society and they're like, well,

instead of that, we're just gonna like do our sadistic Mike Pence shit to you. This part of the episode was really painful, like, because she does the hero shit. Like, she makes the case in a court. Her case is strong and good. Right, and Raker is trying to say, like, don't Mike Pence, let her come to the enterprise and we'll take her away. She's not going to bother you anymore. The Mike Pence is the world. It's

not actually about correcting something that they consider a problem. It's about controlling everybody. Right. Well, the Mike Pence is the world It's not actually about correcting something that they consider a problem. It's about controlling everybody, you know? Right. Well, the mic pens is at the world are never going to feel better about themselves by controlling other people. That's a whole, you can't feel, Ben. Hmm. But if you try, you're going to want a flared bass, which is why we recommend the Mike Pence model butt plug. Oh man if we could get a

Mike Pence butt plug in the Max Fun store I would be so happy. Yeah it's got perfect white hair and dead eyes. Soul-less eyes like a doll's eyes Doesn't seem to be living Until he bites you and when that mic pants butt plug has you Those black eyes roll over white. We're gonna need a bigger boat atom 200 tonight in the water 30 tonight making out. My love is a piece by Logan Till for that which long and I said let me see. Raker is stymied and he goes back and he sits down with Picard in the in the ready room and this is another Picard kind of trying to talk

raker into a prime directive type of reaction. Yeah, two in a row, two Epson a row. Yeah. It's kind of a soft suggestion. Yeah, he does that in a way where he's like, look, man, you can do what you feel like you need to do. And I will give you only as much cover as I can professionally. But does not do the, like, he does not captain him

into submission, you know? Right. He's like, you know, like, please don't violate the prime directive, but if you got to, you got to. Yeah, he doesn't have a hardest tone. So Reikers like suiting up for this like clandestine assault and and Worf is like, yo, I heard there was going to be a clandestine assault. Can I get in on this? Are you by any chance considering an unannounced visit? Did you notice Worf's

saltwater beach hair when he walked into Rikers' quarters? Oh yeah, he had some beachy waves going. He looked great! Yeah, he looked like he'd been having some fun in the sun, Adam! You want to rest up before a clandestine assault. Warrior does not let a friend face danger alone. Yeah, well he was so exhausted after his uncharacteristically misogynistic tirade in the poker game that he decided to spend some time on the holodic,

doing some boogie boarding, you know, shaking out that mane in the slow motion. Nothing gets the misogyny out like a short break. Well, they go down to the planet surface and they're like, essentially beat the shit out of a couple of the juniors that are taking soren around. This is a geek-star Trek fighting, right? Punches and kicks and throws that just don't work in real life. And Riker grabs her by the wrist and run, they run off into the forest. And she's like, dude, like you're too late.

I have zero gender again. The treatment worked. And that's maybe the farthest sci-fi leap the show has taken yet. Because we know that shit doesn't work. Yeah, we know that. And that's like part of the tragedy, right? Like, Riker put it all in the line to go and rescue her. And like, the outcome you want is for her to be rescued from the tower and for Riker to save the princess. It's a sad ending and it's also not an ending that I can give a full-throated endorsement of because it does sort of depict conversion therapy as being viable. And I know it's sci-fi, but I don't like that it's ever I don't I'm not into it ever being implied that that's like a

a course that you can take this moment rang particularly true and painful to me personally because maybe this has happened to you, but very early on in college I had a relationship with a sweet Mormon girl, and we did some decidedly non-Mormon things together while she was on break from her Mormon school. And once the summer was over, it was very sad that she had to go back.

She was like, look, I think what we have is great. And I'm starting to feel less and less like a Mormon school is a place for me. So I'm gonna go back to the Mormon school and I'm going to transfer somewhere else, somewhere that's more in line with my current beliefs. And I was like, wow, that's great. Like, things are going great for us. Like, I really enjoy being with you. This has been an awesome summer.

This isn't going to be a summer fling, right? Right. So she goes off to school. And like, that thing happens, Ben, where like, the phone calls stop and like a week or two goes by and the signs aren't looking good. Finally, finally get around the phone and she's like, I had to change your heart. I came back to school and I was among the Mormons again and like I talked to my preacher figure here and he told me that I was a very bad person and what we did was wrong and bad and I regret every moment of it Wow, and don't plan on me Changing my life for you. I'm gonna stay out here and do Mormon things it's over and that's how I was broken up with

Thanks, and and that felt Not exactly like this Ben And that felt not exactly like this band, but the idea of a sort of programming, yeah. Being the barrier to a relationship is extremely painful because you feel like it's out of your hands. Yeah. And you feel like the bad guy's one.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it felt like here. Yeah. A uncharacteristically dower ending to an episode. Raker goes back up on the bridge and Picard's like, he's our business with the Jedi finished.

And Raker's like, yeah, we can go. He uses that language that is sort of coded, right? Where only the two people know what they're actually talking about, but for all intents, like the rest of the bridge cruise oblivious, that was a classy move by Picard. Yeah. Like to make sure before leaving.

Yeah, it was a like friendlier thing than he usually does, you know, to keep his captainly distance. For someone who doesn't, who hasn't had a great experience with romantic relationships like Picard, Picard understands them and other people. Yeah.

Like he gets how things work. And I thought it was big of him to give Riker some harbor. True dad. Did you like this episode Adam? Yeah I did. It seems ahead of its time in a lot of ways. Yeah, I mean, in some ways it's still very much not ahead of its time. It's sadly contemporary.

It steps on a couple of rakes, for sure. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I felt the same way. And I feel like one thing that was particularly sad at the end was just thinking about how so much has been accomplished for gay rights that now we're looking at the same fight for trans rights. And it feels like we are back to square one and this episode like newly speaks to that fight and that is really discouraging. I just wish that and they

make the argument in this episode, it doesn't fucking injure you at all that she wants to be a she and not a they and And like there's no reason for you to have a fucking court hearing over it. Like get over yourselves. Like it doesn't fucking matter to you. Or shouldn't matter to you. That point was articulated really well. That's the show did a great job with that.

And it's something that I wish like our culture could just like incorporate. And it seems so hard for some people to like stay out of other people's business. Yeah, and an episode like this really, it brings to the fore an issue that a lot of people have to make the main part of their life and the challenges associated with that are innumerable

and sad and I'm sorry it's like that for so many people. Yeah, Adam on a lighter note, I see that we have a indicator light that may or may not mean there are priority one messages waiting for us on the other side of this delightful drop. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplemental link? Supplement? Supplement. Supplement. Yes, extra.

The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship! Ben. Adam. We have a personal priority 1 message. Gang style message. It is from many people to one person. It is from Ryan, Heather, Tachikoma, Kassette, Bonnie, and Clyde. The legendary robbers? Yes, and it is for Ross. The message goes like this. We used to be

adversaries. You were the Tom-Aloct to my Picard. The standard issue door to my wharf. The cake out of my miles. But over time we bonded over many things including TNG and 3,200 bod modems. Now we're the best of friends. You know, you go through those modem wars with people, you come out on the other side. I was always a 14-4 man. Yeah. You are the Jordi de my data, the Laxana to my Mr. Homme, the Wesley to my traveler. No offense.

Happy birthday, brother. Wow. The references are getting more exotic. Yeah. More specific. More razor sharp, man. I think that at a certain point, we may not be able to keep up with the references.

Even us. That was a great message by a lot of people. I don't know how you can get that many people to agree on a single message. Yeah. Of course, when you're the Borgs, you don't have that problem. Maybe that's a... Maybe this is a fledgling collective. We can only hope.

We can only hope that Ross gets assimilated. Pronto. And we have another message here from Katie and it's suggesting. Happy birthday to a husband as a, to a husband who is as smart as Picard, as great a dad as Cisco, as studliest Kirk.

I've loved you since our first argument about Wesley Cresher 20 years ago. Fun fact, you are now the same age as Brent Spiner when he began playing data. That's a good age. That's some trivia right there. Yeah. I think that the bulk of our business of our business in priority ones is, is

in celebrating people's birthdays. And that feels great. It truly does. Marking the passage of time with our, whiny nasal voices. What could be better? Yeah, I think the, uh, the only way to punctuate another trip around the sun is with two dorkazoids from the internet who spend entirely too much time thinking about Star Trek. It is so much better to do a P1 than a Benjamin R. Harrison shaped sheet cake. And it's technically correct.

Yeah, so minty. Yeah, well, if you don't have the cash for a cake and instead want to allocate those resources to priority one messages, you can go to Maximumfund.org. Slash jumbo tron, where you can turn your group message into a message delivered by me and or Ben. Two thousands of listeners. Personal messages, especially with the burst-day variety or $100 commercial messages or for $200 and they help the ongoing production of our show. Thanks guys. Thank you. Hey, Ben. What's that Adam?

Do you have a minty fresh drunk Shimoda? Drunk Shimoda! My drunk Shimoda is decidedly not fresh in this episode, Adam. Very occasionally, we give drunk Shimoda to entire scenes. And I think that the poker scene in this episode has got to be my, my Shemota. It's just, it is so unfortunate that this scene is in the episode, I think. It is. I feel bad preemptively laughing.

It's just, you know, like it's, it is cruel to characters who I think shouldn't be characterized in this way. You know, sometimes we complain about an episode or two where suddenly the writers are writing the senior staff as dumb. You really don't like that. And I think that I have an equally bad reaction when they write them as ignorant. You know? Like there's no fucking way worth thinks this way. There just isn't.

Yeah. Based on all of the past episodes. Like I completely agree with you that he's probably more misogynistic than any other character, but the brand of misogyny that they depict them as having in this is really off the mark, in my opinion. Yeah, they use him as a utility to further the story, to present a counterpoint in the conversation. And it's like I just wish they were more careful like that. Like this shit has consequences.

Yeah. Now this is a thing with Worf. And you don't unstink him from this easily. And it's just like out of nowhere. Like, like, they aren't even talking about this really. And a war forces the conversation. Yeah. He he says a super sexist thing to Troy, which is just like so uncalled for. Are you arguably don't even need the scene. Yeah, really?

You don't. Because the stakes are so high, like you risk ruining wharf with shit like this. For a lot of people. Yeah. I picked a fun Shimoda, Ben. Yay. Just to play off of yours a little bit.

There's a scene where we're soaring and raker or sort of rooting around in the shuttle. And they pull off a panel, and they're dicking around with the wiring inside. Uh-huh. I think raker references something like a starboard manhole thruster. Ben, I don't know what that is. Except Inuendo.

And I am choosing to believe that Inuendo is the universal language. Like these are aliens unfamiliar with each other's ways. You know, soren is sort of probing around rikers' sexuality and figuring out how humans do it. I feel like rikers just might have tossed that one out there to see if that one lands in the room. Like, somehow we'll do that to each other on the show. We'll tease a joke out to see if the other person's gonna pick it up. And I'm wondering if rikers isn't doing it in that scene. Like, did you hear what I just said? So I don't believe that the starboard manhole thruster is apart.

I think that's a joke. Yeah. So I'm giving it to Riker. Nice. Darmak and Jalat and Tanagra. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it. The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023. We've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to greatestgentour.com to get more info. That's greatestgentour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweirds. Pat Noswald. Could I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries?

Thank you. And Kumail Non-Giani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps are already open, just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goat try. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead.

Oh, raps. Hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they have such short neck. But I'm hearing we need to get on this. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity.

Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Kerry? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal. We're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie?

We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came two by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun or dot org. ["Mexican Music"] ["Mexican Music"]

What do we have coming up on the next episode, Ben? Is it a very special episode of Star Trek, the next generation? The next episode is season five, episode 18, cause and effect. The entrepreneur is trapped in a time warp that forces the crew to endlessly repeat the same experiences Do you remember this episode Adam? This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. I like this episode more than some movies Do you like it more than the Tom Cruise movie live die repeat? I really like that movie.

AKA Edge of Tomorrow. I liked that movie more when it was called Edge of Tomorrow. I think that race to the lowest common denominator on titles is fucking bullshit. Yeah, they totally turned the title. The title into a hashtag, didn't they? Yeah, that was dumb. That made me feel bad. I like that movie and I like this episode. Yeah, I think they both succeed if memory serves at showing an event happening over and over again and yet it doesn't get boring to see it again

Yeah, I mean we'll save a bunch of this for the next episode, but the cold open into theme is one of the best, like it shocks a 10-year-old to see what it does in that first 10 minutes. Yeah, well, that's our next episode. Yeah, I can't wait either. I'm looking forward to. Yeah, one thing that we repeat over and over again, Ben, is this show. And more specifically, it's conclusion.

If you have something to say about this or any other episode, you can chat us up on Twitter using the hashtag GreatestGen. I'm on there as At Cut for Time. Ben is there as At Benjamin R. A-H-R. We should thank Dark Materia for our theme music and Adam Agusia, who is always Johnny on the spot with new music. Whenever we come up with some cock-a-mame idea for a new segment, he is like reliably there with a track to layer in, really makes my day every time. Or maybe one of the hosts blows their audio and needs, uh, needs him to fix it.

He's there for that too. He's great. He's like, he's like the third beetle. Totally like the third beetle. Is the third beetle, Ringo? Well, come on, he's obviously the fourth beetle. Everyone says that. I don't believe it. Who else would be the fourth beetle. Everyone says that. I don't believe it. Who else would be the fourth beetle? I don't even care about the beetles, and it's obvious to me that he's the fourth beetle.

I think it's Paul. I'm just gonna say that. Whoa, shots fired. You can send your letters to Jesse Thorn. Resident music expert. letters to Jesse Thorn. It's a good thing that Merlin Mann and John Roderick don't listen to this program at him because I feel like they would spend an entire episode of Roderick on the line talking about what idiots we are. I'm not so sure they don't already do that, Ben. This show is not exactly held in high regard by one John Roderick. Though Merlin Mann is a friend of the show.

We are smeared all over Reddit in a number of areas. There's R-sl's our slash greatest gen. There's also the maximum fun reddit where people discuss our page. We're recommending- I recommend- I recommend using baking soda and peroxide. That'll buff right out.

Or a jar full of water for your brushes. Ha ha. We're also on Facebook and that's also a really lively community and if you check out the hashtag greatest gen there's a Twitter user named WDW Plantunes PLA and T-O-O-N-S who has been over the last few months has made like three or four animations of chunks from our show featuring like Photoshopped stuff we are describing and he... I don't know if it's a... I don't know where this person lies on the gender spectrum but they released a But they released a little animation of Bat Trek. Today, that is really fun.

I haven't seen it yet. I'll check out. I highly recommend you go look for that. Bat Trek. Yeah. Alright. With that, we will be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation and another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation and another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation and another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation

and another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation and another great episode of Star Trek the Next Generation. Another great episode of Star Trek the next generation another great episode of Star Trek the next generation I can tell. You'll be gone, gone, gone, gone, gone, gone. Was not expecting a jazz reference this episode been. Maximumfund.org Comedy and culture, artist owned. Listener supported.

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