The Greatest Generation - The Loaf Forgives All (DS9 S2E19)

Episode Date: July 2, 2018

When the Klingon chapter of the Dead Sons Club holds a meeting on DS9, Dax goes way back with some of the board members. But when the plan for the next meeting leads to a far away planet and a Scarface-like enemy, it forces her to choose between her career at Starfleet and an oath to her friends. Which X-Men side-scroller character are you? What’s the person version of object permanence? Is loaf just a way to get around an insensitive makeup decision? It’s the episode where we look at each other during, again!

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdisotoforlabor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Welcome to the greatest generation. The Star Trek Podcast about Deep Space 9. By two guys you're a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek Podcast at all.

I'm Adam Franica. I'm Ben Harrison. We're still looking at each other during and it's still weird. It really got me off script for the opener. Yeah. People aren't going to like that. Yeah, that's not the product we're selling at them. How dare you gently change the thing that I've grown used to over the course of two years. Yeah, I mean, if you're waking up in the morning on a Monday and you're expecting one thing

and you get very slightly the other thing. The only thing you can do is tweet or Facebook or Reddit at us about how disappointed you are in every decision we've ever made. I mean, in the defense of that way of thinking, I can't think of many good decisions we have made. Yeah, that's true. I guess the only reaction I have to such a criticism is I know, okay? We just took a walk with my dog around the lake. Judith B. Raskin Lake. Was it fun for you to put a place to the thing I have described at you so many times? It's not my first time circumnavigating the Raskin.

Yeah. It's one of the great places to walk around. I love it. I'm fun to see the dog take a lunch at a goose. I want to see some dirt. And to see that goose not flinch at all. And actually give your dog a come at me, bro, kind of look. Like a Bob Seeger album cover, the goose is like, what are you gonna do?

Yeah, the goose is practicing in front of the mirror with its drawer slider gun ejection device up its sleeve. Yeah. You looking at me. It's nobody else here, So you must be looking at me Free plug for that that burger bar down there. Oh, yeah at an echo park lake that place is great Yeah, they do a real nice burger I might even say that the chicken sandwich is slightly better than the burger I noticed when I asked your advice on what to order you didn't say that was the burger a misfire at them?

No, the burger's great. Yeah, okay. I came into this conversation pro burger. Yeah. Maybe it was the right thing for you. It was. I feel great. Sometimes you have a burger and it ruins your day.

Do you ever have that kind of burger? Yeah. This is not that burger. I was able to walk back to your place for meco park. Yeah. For meco park lake. So that's encouraging. There's some talk of eating some Korean barbecue later.

And I just thought maybe all of that beef consecutively was not where I wanted to be. What I wanted to do was lay down a covering fire of ground beef to soften up my digestive system for the beef to come later. Right. You've been bombing your system with beef for 62 days. Expand all beef ordinance on my position. It's a lovely fucking barbecue. It's great to be here. Like for as much fun as we make of looking at each other during, it is a great in-person hang anytime we can do this.

Yeah, we just we just got to figure out more ways to do it. I mean I think that it's been amazing to have the support of our listeners so that we can do things like touring and like that has not satiated as I don't think like we want to do touring and even more in-person stuff. Right. So, I don't know. We'll figure something out. Yeah. Our judgment has been, uh, all right, up until now. Which is encouraging. Yeah. No pending lawsuits yet. Right. That we know about. We're getting ready to go to the Star Trek Las Vegas Convention. Get a life! We will be broadcasting our pirate signal to a room full of people

while the con is going on. Yeah. I'm really excited about that. Yeah. I think that'll be cool. I mean, I, um, it was always an experiment. We'll like, we'll see how that goes. Cause we were like, well, probably our people

are interested in going to the Vegas Star Trek con, but also, are they not? Right. I think the way that playing a Vegas show works is so different from any other tour date that we have and the the way Ticket sales operate there like it's just not as predictable as any other show we've done So I don't know if I'll be surprised if

Not many people are there or if it is packed part of the difficulty of programming it was like Okay, like we know like roughly the dates of the convention and we know that we want to like be there and enjoy the convention. Mm-hmm. But does the convention have so much programming that getting away for one of those evenings is like not appealing to somebody who might be interested in both things? Yeah, I just don't know. Like you go in there thinking, yes, like we got a Friday night in Vegas. That's going to be kick ass.

And I expect it to be, but like it's a place without a recognizable 24 hour clock. Right. Does that mean anything there? And doesn't mean anything. Oh, is it Friday night? Oh, shit. Yeah. Like doesn't mean anything during the con?

This is an event that we've never been to before. Yeah. So really the kind of the height of hubris to book ourselves a show. I think it's great. I think, you know, it's like a Rocky movie, right? Like, you want to see if you can hang in the ring with the champs with Apollo Creed. Yeah, and this is like this is not in the ring. This is

This is the parking lot. Yeah, this is down the street from the ring in a different building. Yeah Yeah, but um like that story, I think ours is is an underdog tale. Yeah. And I'm hoping that we can go the distance and make this thing work. Yeah, Rocky's goal was not to win.

It was just to stay in the fight for a while. It was like to beat the splitter, whatever. What was the? Yeah, he wanted to go the distance. And he lost the split decision. Right. Good for you, Rocky. You lost, but in a way, you did win. We will succumb to heavy brain trauma for totally different reasons by the end of

our Vegas visit. Alcohol based brain trauma, but also probably just like, Klingon cosplayers, bonking us on the head with their fiberglass batlets. Yeah, you hope that's rubberized low if you're getting headbutted with Well my theory presupposes is maybe it's like just hard paper mache Well, I'm speaking of Klingon's rampaging. Do you want to get into the episode we watched? I think we have an obligation to an oath even if you will. Oh shit. As we talk about deep space 9 season 2 episode 19. Blood oath. Do you realize how it is? No, of course you don't. So we start in Quark's bar and a quark is kind of turning in a Klingon customer for hogging the dual screen X-Men side scroller.

So great. Just won't get off it, won't let everybody else play. That game is so much fun. Yeah, that's one of the great games. I guess it's not really a game you can hog though, that was a bad analogy. Who is your guy in that game Cyclops me too me too We couldn't play together. I know one of us would have to be one of the other dumber X-Men Yeah, I mean, I guess Wolverine is popular, but I just never saw the appeal. I was never a Wolverine guy Yeah, I think he was too cool to ever select. I have found that a lot of people come down on

the Wolverine and the Raphael, but I was always a Raphael fan with the turtles, but then a Cyclops fan with the X-Men. What were you with the Ninja Turtles? Or was that the, did you not pick a fave? I was done. Oh, you were a Donnie man. I liked the reach of the Boastav a lot.

Plus, he does machines. Yeah. Yeah, and that was useful. How did you feel when the Marvel universe was spooling out X-Men films, how they made Cyclops as a character, and specifically as a hateable piece of shit character. I didn't love it.

That guy kind of suffered from something we've talked a lot about with regard to the Lovar Burton, where the eyes being covered up really kind of turns the character into kind of a one-dimensional thing. And I think that it was kind of a hateable character that didn't have any way for us to empathize with them. It was pretty thankless. Yeah. That actor is James Marsden who is in another one of your favorite shows Westworld. Yeah, I love that show so much I started a podcast about it and every episode is the same. And it's actually just one episode, but it is my review of every episode of Westworld. Even season two. You haven't invited me to be a guest on that show.

I guess it's just, I think it's smart as a podcast producer. I just want to, you know, I want to, like, a little... You don't want to dilute me. I want a little side project, a little sandbox where I can kind of play with my own creativity. Yeah, but like, I think in respect that where Lovar Burton really shines on TNG despite not seeing his eyes, I think that James Marston did not overcome the fact that we didn't see his eyes in that Cyclops role. Another difference between the two roles

is that James Marston fucks. Hahaha. Bullshit, man. He's just bullshit. I agree with a little of our burden about that. So, Odo, not really carrying if Quark lives or dies, has Quark shut off the power to the arcade game and the doors on the hollow suite open.

And Outcomes, a very inebriated, clang on. You dare interrupt the battle of Clark, the Clown Blood! It is quite keen to kill Quark, but Odo kind of stands in between them. Odo, twice in this episode, displays some hostage negotiator style talk downs of Klingons at a few different times. Like, he is very deft at judoing someone's anger

and like using their emotions to sort of like calm them down. Like the thing he does to core here is like, what is over? The people are waiting to celebrate your victory. Redirecting his energy instead of trying to stop it is a thing that people can learn to do at parties. Like when things start to get out of hand, like you never try to, as you said, like stop a guy from throwing a concrete block through a windshield. Like you get them to throw it in the street or something. You can still throw it. You can see how much fun it is if you throw it at some pavement. Yeah, how about the lawn? I also detected some kind of like professional respect

that Odo has for clean-ons. Like when it is revealed that this dude is a Dehar master, Odo is like, oh, like he kind of cleans up a bit. Game respect game. Yeah, well at the same time, like a couple of times they do things that cause Odo to roll his eyes. You know he could roll his eyes like in a disgusting way. Yeah, he could do like the-

He could owl roll the- The cheesing. Yeah. I think I'm up his dollar signs. He should do more fun shit like that. Yeah, if the Ferencys had found him, I think he would, you know. He'd be in a Ferencys circus for a guy. Such a shame.

Like what would be the funnest race for Odo to have been found by? Like what if the Andorians had found him and he was like trying to be blue and antennae but he was a little goopy about it still? I mean, I'd like to see what his ears looked like if he tried to make Ferengy ears. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, just big flat circles.

Yeah, there's a couple of of Klingons here on the station. There's this guy, Kor, there's also Kholoth, who comes and visits Odo in the security office. And does so in a way where it's kind of like a samurai movie trope where Odo is looking at his Paddy looks up and there's just a guy standing in front of him and he asked him to explain how he got there and there's a fun like you know my name is Wyand how I got here that should be enough to satisfy you. Yeah. Colath clearly like left his temple walking out on the rice paper without tearing it

Yeah, and so it kind of gets around that bunch of Klingons are aboard the station This is a conversation that Odo and Kira have in the in the op section and we get it like a nice pan over to DAX where you know she's clearly just kind of overhearing. Did you say core? Something else happening in the office and it makes her realize something may be a foot. This causes DAX to like grab Odo by the sleeve and take him back down to the security

office where she basically takes takes responsibility for the still very drunk core. Yeah. He doesn't recognize her because when he met her, she was a he. And three different times in this episode, she has to explain to a Klingon who she is and who she was and prove it in three different ways.

Which you have to assume she had done already as Curzon the first time. Yeah, like these guys all act like this is news to them. They have a baby's amount of understanding of like whatever the person version of object permanent is. Like whenever she leaves a room they're like, where did she go? Like whatever the the person version of object permanences Like whenever she leaves a room they're like where did she go? She must be dead. Yeah, I hope she died honorably like they clearly spent a ton of time together I am positive this was explained fairly often Yeah, what's up with those spots on your face? Oh, well, let me explain often. Yeah. What's up with those spots on your face? Oh, well, let me explain. Cursons, like, they're all like comparing scars at the bar. And

Cursons like, a load of this. Check this out. Like, points to a kangaroo pouch. Zip. You know, they, they meet up with Coloth, the older of the older of the two that we've met so far. These guys have been kind of arranged that they are here. And they suspect that they are on Deep Space Nine because the third of their little band of misfits is like engineering a situation whereby they can pick up decks to go on some kind of quest. I wish we saw their Klingon ship docked at the station though.

We never see the two things together. We only see the Klingon ship later in transit. Yeah, I wonder if that's just because it's the classic movie model of a Klingon ship and maybe it was built to a different scale or something. Yeah, I bet. It would have been really cool, yeah. Or maybe they just can't get their rings to fit together. Well, they're working on fitting it

with a universal ducking ring. So you could meet up with British German just about anybody. I'm a ring, come to a fore, I'm a ring, come to a fore. I'm a ring, come to a fore. What are you doing? German just about anybody There is a word that gets used throughout the episode that really clings. Not to use a possible name for a Klingon warrior. But that word is Godfather. I understand why that word is used so that a viewer can understand that. But we know what a chat each is because of its repeated use in TNG. Like, why not give it a Klingon name and then define it and then make that an understood thing? Like, I don't like Klingons using and accepting

like human normative terms for things like this. Yeah, it's like French people using the word email. No, it's Korean electronics. French people using lower to email. No, it's Korean electronics. That was going to be my example. You left me nowhere to go conversational even. Yeah, I saw you reaching for it. I'm sorry, I just, I had to jump all over it.

Did that bother you at all or is it just me? No, I was bothered by it. Like that and the thing of DAX having to re re re re re re re re re re re re re explain that she's a trill and that she's she's still DAX, but she's no longer curzoned. Right. Is really bad writing and not equal to some of the other really fun stuff in this episode.

And there's a lot of fun stuff in this episode. And there's a lot of fun in this episode. Like, the camera like pans over while they're having this conversation. And, uh, and Kang, the third of these old Klingon dudes, walks out of an airlock and says, I have found the albino. I feel like one thing that we should do before we get too far is, is do takes of Kang, Core, and Kholoth, just to have them because their names phonetically sound so interchangeable,

I know we're gonna fuck this up. Yeah, don't write in, if we fuck it up. Yeah. These are characters, I guess, from TOS. They are the same people. They came in and they were like, wait, you're gonna put us in what? I mean, back in the day, we just did blackface. Why are we being put on all this love?

They're like, blackface is not cool anymore. They're like, it's kind of blackface, but there's love, so it's okay. Ooh. Ooh. Yeah, like what the hell was going on? Like how did, how in the 90s was everybody like, it's okay to put a white actor in very dark makeup

if you have loaf, but if no loaf, not okay. Like that's literally the distinction that they're making. Yeah, it's fucked up. I call out that is not, like I think his complexion complexion is pretty close to his loaf complexion, but Koran-Kang. The loaf can forgive a lot of problems. I guess that's what we've learned. The loaf forgives all. Yeah, but God, the expectations that they had going into this had to have been blown away by the time they reached hour five in the makeup chair. Yeah, like if you're

an actor, I do like, yeah, oh, I remember having done Star Trek. Yeah, that rings a bell. They want me to come back in. I don't know if it's a good idea because if I recall correctly, they put me in blackface and I just don't think that's gonna play to a 1996 audience. My grandkids hate me. My thanks-givings have sucked for 20 years. And guess what, they're not wrong. My daughter's boyfriend asked me what I did when I was younger and I said I was an actor. He looked me up and now he hates me.

This scene leads into another scene in an ops where Kira and Dax start discussing... Buddy counts? Yeah. They're like going over like some plasma discharge that they're trying to lock down and just like zero to 60 the axe is like, hey, Kira. How many people did you kill? And Kira is like, what? We've been told that they are very good friends,

like the best of friends. Yeah. I'm a little surprised that this is not a subject that they've ever discussed before. It's either that they've never discussed it or they've kind of agreed not to. And it has to be that one. Yeah. Or, I mean, like, I don't know.

Is it something you would talk to somebody about? I don't know anybody that I think may have killed anybody, so I don't. But like, if I met somebody that I thought might have, like, if I met somebody and I thought might have, like if I met somebody and I knew them to have been a former member of SEAL Team 6, I don't know if even after 6 years I'd be like, so what are we talking about here? I mean, the one thing that Dex has to have known is Kira's not all the way great feelings about her history as a killer or as having had to kill.

Right. She's cute is proud of having been a member of the resistance, but right does not exalt in the death that she had to meet out as a result of that. And this scene presupposes that like that DAX is asking in order to get some advice in the way that like I so how bad is it to waste somebody? It's it's sort of like what how do you ask a girl out on a date? Like it's it's it's it's posed as that sort of question, as an advice-giving question. Only it certainly doesn't get that far. The reason that DAX has to ask is that she has caught wind of the reason that these three klingons are there.

Their meeting was orchestrated as a way to gather these troops. Something very bad happened to them a long time ago. Kang, the third of the three clings to arrive, has found the albino. And what we come to find out is that the Kursan Dax was the Godfather of Kang's son and Kang, Koran, Koloth, all were dispatched as a team. Three ships, three captains to go kill this albino who was like doing raids and they killed those men and stuff but the albino escaped and promised to kill their firstborn all three of them and made good on that

promise and so those three dudes plus Kersan Dax formed a lifetime pact that should an opportunity present itself, they would go revenge themselves upon the Elbino. And this is the point where the storyline becomes very familiar to anyone who has seen a Morgan Freeman movie of the last five years, like this is Klingon Bucket List. This is like, let's get the old together for one last ride. Yeah, we're gonna go find that albino, we're gonna put a bunch of meat in between the sheets on his bed. Yeah, and that'll be our Rohingya. What does it mean? It means a matter. Yeah. Dax really wants to go with. Yeah. And that is a problem for a group of Klingons who still aren't sure necessarily that they want to

around. Yeah. Well, she has made the case that she is what was in Kersan as in her, they're not really feeling the vibe of bringing her along on this mission. They're described as looking 150 years old, which I don't think I realized before this episode that Klingons live very long lives compared to contemporary humans. Maybe it's their organ duplication that doubles their lifespan from a human being. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I guess we don't really know how long humans live in Star Trek.

Yeah. I don't know that that's ever been... Yeah, it wasn't Dr. McCoy well over 100 in the premiere episode of TNG. Yeah, but he looked pretty rough. Yeah, like he looks so rough You don't want to live that old. Yeah, he actually discouraged a lot of people from making it that far. They're like we've advanced pretty far, but not far enough During that Pulaski season when when Paski got infected with the old age virus. She's like, oh God, this is not going to turn me into one of those McCoy-looking guys, is it?

Yeah, so they were going expecting to go find like an old dude. Yeah. And instead they find a young woman. And I think it's more because she kind of defies their expectations of the person that we're going to grab to go on this adventure than anything else. They don't want her to feel obligated. Like, Kang specifically says, like, you are released from this oath because you've passed on to a new life. And like, Dax has a conversation with Kira about how that's actually kind of like how

it works for trills. Like, if not, you wind up paying off all debts forever. In the Dead Suns Club's defense, Dax does not display the an equivalent amount of vengeance emoting here as they do. She's never put any sausages in somebody's bed. Now, and like if she was a little more born to kill in like carriage, I think it would have gone a long way

to convince them earlier, but as it is, she's soberly doing the work of convincing throughout. And that's what makes her job so much harder. Yeah, so she goes on kind of like apology to her 2018, where she like really works individually on Kor, Koloth and Kang on like what is going to convince each of you that I'm worthy of this adventure. And Kor we've established is kind of the drunk idiot of the group so obviously that interaction takes place at the bar in Quarks. I one thing I noticed

about this seed was he just had like a big pile of Latinum on the bar like bars of Latinum are just like in front of him. He's not really paying attention to them but I kind of like that is like clinging on power move. Like, I dare you to come try and swipe one of these. Anybody? I'm desperate for a fight. Yeah, it does seem that way. Like someone at a casino not guarding their chips. Yeah.

The next scene is really fun because it's a demonstration of BicRum Batlet. Yeah, they've turned the hollow sweet up to 115 degrees Fahrenheit. And leather is not a breathable fabric. There's some like pretty fun wide combat shots between Coloth and Dex. It's a little corny, but it's not as corny as it would have been in like season two of TNG you know. It's tough when you make that your level of success comparison though. Yeah. But like when Riker and his dad like fight each other with Q tips it is corny as

fuck. This is not Ambo Jiu Jitsu corny. No, for sure. This. This is Bikram Batleth corny. And Dax gets an opportunity to prove herself physically here by replicating herself a batleth and then getting it on. I like the trade craft of calling for not just stock batleth, but a batlet with very specific like measurements and waiting and stuff. A warriors configuration. Yeah, like the bowler with the very specific whole placement and waiting and Micah paint job.

Yeah, and then somebody finds that in her bag later when they break into her apartment, they say, what the fuck is this? And she says, obviously, you're not a golfer. She ends up losing this fight or throwing it? I wondered about that, like, because she holds her own for a while, but then is disarmed and underground

with the tip of the blade next to her neck. And that is Colath's cue to say, you are worthy of this mission. And I would think that a Klingon would be pretty pissed if they caught you throwing a fight, right? Isn't it established that Colath has like, chrono-spaced mesothelioma. People who have been diagnosed with mesothelioma, I have many questions. Has any presented as someone with a respiratory illness

or is that one of the others? I don't know. Did you catch him taking a drag off his inhaler or something? No, I mean, one of them is coughing a lot. Oh, he's got chronothelioma. If you or someone you know of inhaled chronos. Oh, he's got Chrono Theliuma. If you are someone you know of inhaled cronos. I'm so glad we're in the same room so you could see how enjoyable I've found that without hearing me laugh. Kang in the very next scene ends up getting his his appeal being done at Quark's bar, right?

like She has to turn the screws on him Yeah, it's got to be weird like be sitting in that bar and have people come out of the hollow suites Just sweaty as fuck and not knowing why yeah It's like sex in here. Morin just comes out wearing a towel around his waist We wouldn't seem in a long time. He's been in the background a little bit. He's grown difficult to spot for me for some reason. Do you think even Morn wears a towel around his waist?

He wears one of those always sunny dick towels? Check it out, that dude's naked. No, it just looks like it. He's wearing a hilarious towel. Dax convinces Kang of her, not only her warrior ability, but re-emphasizes that she is who she says she is. Yeah. And then that she's as pissed about this as they are as well.

Like, she's fired the fuck up about this. I understand Klingons. All right, then, it worked. One thing that has pervaded all of these conversations and interactions I can't talk about this. I understand Klingons. All right, then, it worked. One thing that has pervaded all of these conversations and interactions is that no one, even after having been convinced, is excited to have her along.

Like, Kang begrudgingly agrees to have her along, and I think his outshot is, come and be damned. Ha ha ha. Like, yeah. Well, it's like that. It's the honor thing, right? It's like if we determine that it would be dishonorable not to take her, then we can't go. So that's the calculus, but that calculus fucking sucks.

Yeah. I mean, if there's one thing that TNG has taught us, it's that you need a letter from your parents to get excused from Starfleet to go on a Klingon mission. Yeah. This is something that Picard had a great amount of reluctance to grant Wurf and Cisco has the same problem with Dex because I mean Wurf actually did it though. He wouldn't kill that guy.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know that must not have made the Federation newspaper because you know Dax would have used that as a reason. Yeah, listen Ben, I mean, I've been having on good authorities that your hated nemesis kept in Picardal out this kind of thing and it changed Klingon politics forever.

I'm not Picard, but she talks to him into it, and it's like, it's one of those like, like she's like in the ninja costume packing her duffel, ready to head to the bird of prey or whatever. Like not to skip to the end or anything, but the shit does not hit Kira for ranting her out here, at all. Yeah, Dex does not appear to hold any grudges about that.

Yeah. Which in a real housewives universe, anytime something gets back to anybody else, that is there's fucking hell to pay, you know? And if this was an episode of Housewives, they would cut to the confidential booth. Yeah. And Kira would be like, she gave me no choice.

I had to report to Cisco. And then cut to the confessional with Dax or she goes, I can't believe she reported me to Cisco. On Kang ship, they do that thing in the school yard where they like go over the map of the grounds and they like they're using computer graphics as the rocks and shells and Sticks of the thing, but this is a real piece of shit plan from jump Kang, what are you doing?

They know that there are 40 guards and they know that the albino is inside this compound They know that there are 40 guards and they know that the albino is inside this compound. And they're doing the math and they're like, well, if there's 40 guards, they must be spaced out quite a bit because this is a big compound, but they would have to be spaced out so much that they wouldn't be able to see each other. So it just doesn't make any sense. There must be either more guards or better defenses than we've been led to believe. And so, Dax is writing for, like, let's link in in the dead of night and stick a knife in this guy's neck. And instead, Kang is like, nope, like,

that's not how we're doing this. We're not doing this like, cowards, we're going in the front door and fucking kicking a bunch of asses, taking a bunch of names, and either killing the guy or dying, trying. And the cheating over. Yeah, yeah, cord and call out. They're like, I like the way you think,

King. All right. I'm gonna go fuck with some gach. I'll see you at our call time. And a dachsticks around and she's like, you can't win. Like we can stand around and, this is a good day to die all day long. But like, what's the story? Like, why are you bringing us all to die for sure? It's suicide! Like isn't it more fun to win? Do we even want to win?

Yeah, like I don't know this ever gets resolved the idea of a cling on the dice of old age, you know? These guys are 150, they're the Dhar masters, they're noted bad asses. But if they don't die in battle, does that just mean that that, like none of that mattered? Hard to say, they've made their choices though, like they want to die during this mission.

This is suicide by guard. But what if you're such a bad ass that you just never die in a battle? I mean, you would think that that would be the best outcome. Except for it's never talked about. Like dying of old age, horrified worth. Yeah. Like we heard him talk about that for sure.

But what Kang reveals is that he actually talks to the albino like face to face. Like he went to check out the intel that he got before he even put the adventure together. And the albino was like, yeah, like come at face, like he went to check out the intel that he got before he even put the put the adventure together. And the albino was like, yeah, like come at me, bro. Like, let's make this, let's make this a challenge. I'm going to have 40 guys. You guys see if you can make it through the front door. It's a weird amount of like location scouting and how non-violent that that conversation was. Yeah. So it's interesting because they're, they've been sort of planning a surprise attack.

That's not what it's going to be. The albino is expecting them. He's picked 40 guys that are his toughest guys, and they're waiting for them like they are on alert. It also becomes clear why none of them want to dex to come with them. Right. Do you think Kaurin Colath, know about this? I kind of do.

Yeah. They just don't care. If you're in Dead Suns Club, I think you share everything. Yeah, Dead Suns Club is pretty cool that way. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. So, Dax is like, us all getting killed is totally stupid and pointless, and we could actually win this if we're just a little bit smarter about it.

And one thing we could do is do some like scattering fields from orbit that disable all their phasers, and then it's a sword fight. And like, the four of us can for sure take out 40 yards in a sword fight. Yeah, Cisco and O'Brien were just on that lube planet. It's wonderfully soothing. That had such a scattering field. I think I can use his, what he wrote about in his log. Yeah.

Yeah. To our advantage. He brought back a piece of machinery that I happened to throw into my suitcase just in case something like this came up. It's going gonna be great. What I'm proposing is that we use the scattering field to disable their phasors, but also we bring a lot of loop. So they get down to this planet and a lot of sneaking around we get a reveal on like World's Dorkiest Tension. Really dopey guards. Yeah. This really

hurt the episode I think. Yeah like putting a bunch of guys in wetsuits and bad hockey helmets does not make it seem like this is a badass compound that a bunch of like super, super ninjas are gonna have to break their way into. I would rather have not seen them. I would rather it be like century cannons or something. Like anything but what we see here would make this situation seem more dangerous.

But that they're all just like a bunch of dumpy white guys with visors. Yeah, it just like a bunch of dumpy white guys with visors. Yeah, it's just a bunch of... Why are they human? Like 45 year old white guys with deadbots and they're literally wearing wetsuits. I think if you're not gonna do the work

of making the albino terrifying visually. Right. And not really making him scary by virtue of his backstory which I mean what he did is fucked up but it's not his method of killing them is not especially scary in the Star Trek context then you need the guards to be scary or the compound to be scary but it's it's the mash playset and the guards are dumb looking and dopey. Like they needed to get a bunch of dulfed lundering looking guys to be the guards,

yeah, or that guy from X-Men with the crazy muscle face. Yeah. Like they've got that guy's number on speed dial. Why don't I get that guy and just chew him walking around a bunch of times. This whole scene just felt very safe to me in a way that I wish it didn't. Yeah, one thing I did like is the ex-teriors are really cool. They definitely found an amazing location for this. And while the insides are obviously the play set from Mesh, the outside is like, I don't know, some kind of Japanese garden or something.

I always love a practical outside playset. And they smoke it up. Like there's all this like atmospheric stuff, like that Star Trek almost never does. Yeah. It's not a bad sound stage with the psych 25 feet from the back of everybody's head. It's like a real place.

And having those like dopey guards in there such a completely breaks the spell of what would otherwise be a pretty awesome assault scene. They don't pay off the potential of everything else. But we get to meet this albino. And he's just kind of like an old guy. We were kind of debating, is this due to Klingon or not? And he isn't.

I just want to know more about him. Like what is he doing here? What are these henchmen obeying him for? Yeah, like is he stupendously rich or something? Like I feel like the shorthand is like, oh yeah, this is Scarface situation. Like this is his mansion and he's got all this wealth, and he's just killing people that he wants to kill,

but that's all head canon. Right, and if you're a human in the 24th century, and you have an opportunity to live inside the federation where you never want for anything, why go be in a jungle and pull on a fucking neoprene? Yeah, this life's just for them. Yeah. I could never be a henchman.

I am just a normal guy who is between the age of 18 and 30, a loner and lacks ties to friends and family. Hendron is the worst job you could possibly have in this context. You wanna be hunching for this guy? No. You don't wanna be hunching for anybody. But yeah, they like, you know, they fight through all the guards. They do like a, you know, set off some explosions, cut the power, break in through the front door and they fight up the steps toward the El Baino. They kill a bunch

of bad guys. Coloth catches one in the belly, which winds up being his doom. I think Corgets hurt a little bit too. Eventually, it's Kang and the Albino fighting up at the top of the steps and dags down at the bottom, finishing off the last of the henchman and Kang's batlet breaks. And he gets knocked to the floor and he's stabbed and he's in rough shape, but Dax gets there just in time to catch the albino before he finishes Kang off. And she's kind of having that moment of like, am I really going to do this? Holy fucking shit. And you can almost see like Kira's head

like rotating over her shoulder. Yeah, like the serious portrait studio. Yeah, her superimposed over the top. Echoey sound effects, like saying that you regretted killing people or something. And then, um, Dax is about to do, do the do and instead, uh instead Kang sticks the guy through the back and spares Dax the murder I mean she's definitely killed a bunch of guys leading up to this But this one seemed to like feel like something to her. Yeah, Kang ends up dying himself It seems like after cores the lone survivor besides Dex. Yeah. It seems like the guys that she would,

she killed that she didn't have anything against would have been harder to killed than the guy that she was there to specifically an ex-venginson. That's just such a great point. I mean, like Dex is fucking working for a living. Dex is not clean when she gets back to the station. No.

And like the less even when she's back, like, you know, just like trying to get some work done at Ops is like, just come and cure it, just looking at her like, what the fuck? Like, like, she has totally changed in their eyes. It's similar to the way that like, if you work in a corporate environment and just come back from a vacation All-tan and relaxed people also treat you that way

like You know we were all here with that shit. Yeah I had to answer your fucking phone. Yeah No scream to Stovacore. I Notice that too. They did a little song, but that doesn't warn anybody that a warrior's coming. No one's going to know in Stovacore that a couple more warriors are coming. A couple of fucking Dahar masters are coming. Yeah, what's the meaning of that?

Stovacore's not going to know what hit it. Yeah, I kind of missed that. Yeah. When DAX goes back to her post, getting the stare down from Kira and Sisko, we get the single brass instrument of moral ambiguity. What's going to happen? This is one of my favorite parts of the episode, though, Ben. I like that they didn't tie it up at all, and it's just...

It's a little bit like... It's a little bit like Hold Looks. Yeah, it's a little bit like data and Saul Rubeneck, you know? Yeah. It's like, wow, like we have some shit to chew on right now about what DAX means as a character. Like, like we knew DAX had like a pretty amazing backstory and DAX has been through some kind of,

kind of rugged shit in this season, especially. But the fact that she had to like puzzle through the moral implications of what she felt she must do. And then went and did it. Yeah. Is intense. It's admirable that she was willing to go that far for her friends. Yeah. But it's frowned upon by those in the Federation.

Did you like this episode, Ben? I did. It's a fun adventure. It kind of feels a little bit like Rainbow too, like all the running around in the jungle and like, you know, grabbing a guy from a behind and breaking his neck. So combination. They weren't only supposed to take pictures though. Yeah, but it's a fun adventure.

It's like a bunch of fun characters. It's a little bit of a vacation from day to day, deep space nine, but also not without adding some dimensionality to a character that I think has been given some short shrift this season. And this is a great episode for her. How about you? to a character that I think has been given some short shrift this season and this is a great episode for her. How about you? I don't think it's necessarily fair to allow a costuming choice to ruin what is

otherwise a really interesting episode, so I'm not going to let that happen. Like I thought the guards were a bad choice. Yeah. And I thought it took a lot of the intensity out of the episode to have them look that way. So, I mean, I want to be able to look past that. And in so doing, I will also say that it's a fun episode. It's a technically really good episode. For a lot of the reasons we stated before,

like a lot of the camera moves are great, you get some nice compound fight scenes. Yeah, the the the fighting, especially once they get into the the mash playset is fun as fuck and well staged and like the lighting is really cool. The cinematography, the cinematography is really cool. Like it seems like a little bit higher spec than a lot of the episodes we've seen recently. Pretty fun app. And what would seem to be a very important app for the DAX story arc?

True. One of the most important things to the greatest gen story arc is the continuing reading of priority one message is Ben. Do you wanna see if we have any of those? Let us do it! Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement only.

A supplement? A supplement. A supplement. Yes, extra. The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship! Ben, our first priority one message is of a... commercial nature. Hey.

Message goes like this. Do you have children? And live in Tucson? If so, this message is for you. Check out DaVinci Tree Academy, a new, free K-6 school that focuses on STEM subjects. All students receive an iPad for their studies into science and technology projects in addition to their normal curriculum. To learn more, visit DaVinciTree.academy. We promise that our staff is nothing like the two hilarious perverts that host this show.

Ben, we know what STEM is. It's a science technology, engineering, and math, correct? Uh, yeah, that sounds about right. Um, that sounds really cool. That sounds like a great, uh, great school, and a school that does know what weirdos we are. Yeah, no kidding, that- I don't know if I want to be called a pervert. Yeah, especially in a talking about a school context. Yeah. That sounds like a great, uh great place to send your kids.

I'm sure that you can learn more on that website. Yeah, if you want your kid to be the chief O'Brien of the future, definitely check out www.divinci3academy. That's DAVINCITREE-I-T-R-E-E data academy to learn more. Yeah, I've always wanted to get into the academy. I know, and here's your chance. You think they got a Kobayashi Marui at DaVinci Tree? I mean, I would wonder what a K through 6-Age Kobayashi Marui might be. Adam, we got another priority one message and it is of a personal nature and it's from

a sad said person named Andrew and it's for Adam and Ben. Adam then Ben because I can respect that. It goes like this. I've paid $100 for many stupid iPhone games like Yatsi and Simpson tapped out. My wife said no more But she didn't say no to this PS drunk shim whatever Yatsi's a hundred bucks for your iPhone. This is news to me. Yeah, was he saying he spent a hundred dollars cumulatively or did he like? Did he pay to have Simpsons tapped out

super points or what? You know, sometimes you download a game and it's like 99 cents, but then when you're in the game, it makes you buy a whole bunch of extra shit. I wonder if you have to buy the dice and yatsi. Oh yeah. And then you gotta buy the little cup.

And then you gotta buy the little sheet of paper to keep score on. That cup is available for a low monthly cost of 599. And what is Simpson tapped out? Oh, this is one of these iPhone games that doesn't actually, you don't actually get anywhere. You just like, it's like farm vill or whatever you know. I was addicted to it for a long time. I can totally relate but I also... I feel bad if we're like, if we're like exploiting this guy's retail addiction or whatever. I think unlike these iPhone games we're giving him good value. Yeah exactly.

We've talked about these iPhone games for a while now. Wait, wait is this an ad for two iPhone games? What the fuck Andrew turns in the sad guy, he's a developer This that's great Andrew fucking used us I'd sit my hat to you Andrew Well, if you get get one of those past the goalie at maximumfund.org, slip a personal in that is in fact the commercial. Wow. Three goalies in front of the net too. Me, you and Daniel. Let it get by us. Yeah, right through the five hole.

Yeah, right through the five hole It's like the big lapowski dream sequence anyways. Thank you, Andrew and Thanks to DaVinci tree Academy for getting a priority one message If you'd like to get a priority one message on the show, you know what to do you go to maximumfund.org slash jumbo tron And you can pay a hundred bucks for a personal message or 200 for a commercial message. What does that money do Adam? It makes the show possible Ben Hey Adam. What's that been? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda

Ben core seems to be the only one who's having any fun here Like he his first scene is heard but not seen in the destruction of the hollow suites. He seems like the one who's most interested in just not gonna couple of heads together and having two ladies on his arm at Quarks and doing all of the fun things about this violent mission that has been proposed.

Everyone else seems a little bit dour or resistant to Dax's involvement. Cork doesn't seem to take a hard line either way. He's just there to enjoy what remains of what he believes to be a short life. And I could really appreciate that about him. Yeah, I mean, he's lived a long life, but he's really like putting in quality time there

at the end. Yeah, what remains, I think he's expecting to be not long. Delightful, delightful but short. I couldn't figure out what this character's name was, but my Dr. Shimoto was the, I don't know, lieutenant of the Elbino. He was kind of a particularly low-fi guy who didn't have the hockey helmet

that many of the other guards had. He looked a little bit like a thing from Fantastic Four. He just looked a little a little clobbery. Yeah, he looked a little clobbery, but then like during that fight scene in the Mash place, they are, you know, there's three Dahar masters and Dax just like laying waste to what are the last of their 40 best men? And he's just standing like up three steps with the albino behind him. Like, get that guy out of there. If your job is to protect that guy,

don't just stand there like you don't know what to do. He is a Marcallion, Ben. No kidding. His race of people actually has a backstory and stuff. No shit. Mark Allianz have appeared in 34 episodes of DS9. Wow. Good for them.

You like to see the Mark Allianz getting out there, being represented, et cetera. Gotta get that, got that, go crash that, got that, got that, go crash that, go crash that, go get my ride, oh, yeah, go get my ride, oh, oh, yeah. Oh. A Greatest Gen Live Show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it. The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Share your embarrassment tour. I'm Jordan Morris and I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We got stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweirds. Pat Noswald. Can I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use.

Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps are already open. Just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Whoa, Russ. Hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line.

These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks. But I'm hearing we need to get on this off. We've got to get on the arc. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. we're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out.

We would love to be on the boats. We came two by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. Which episode of DS9 will represent our show next time, Ben. Well, the next episode of Star Trek Deep Space 9 is season 2 episode 20, The Make-Wease Part One. What? Make-Wease?

Cisco Uncovers a Federation Terrorist group whose actions could start another war with the Cardassians. It wasn't there a two-parter called The Make-Wease for TNG. I believe there was. The Netflix description is the worst is feared when a Cardassian freighter the Bachnor explodes while departing the station. So Sounds like an exciting start. Yeah

So looking forward to that Adam. Do you want to find out if we will be doing a particular type of app when we record that one? I think we better. We are dangerously proximate to Squarespace 62, which would wormhole us all the way back to Squarespace 18, which is a Quark's bar episode. We could also potentially hit Squarespace 64, which is a Starship Mine episode in which we would have to build a model,

we would each have to build a model of a spaceship while recording the episode. At that, that could only be the dumbest bit we ever do. I mean, I think that the thing that people would look forward to is seeing the picture of the terrible starship that we made after after we finished recording the app. We can auction them off for charity. Yeah, sure. Not that anybody would want that, but the NCSC would be deeply ashamed to receive that contribution All right, so square 61 Adam. Do you want to roll a Random number for us indeed. I will you're required to learn as you play roll

Tula did I win? That I was momentarily very scared. Because we have narrowly escaped both the wormhole and the starship mine squares, and I've gone to square 65 with a roll of a four. So we could still hit a quartz bar next time. It could also catch a wormhole back down to the bottom again where we know through all this stuff, right? That's 87. Well, no, I mean, like, eventually, like, all of the stuff we're passing,

there's still can come back to bite us. Yeah, there's still three wormholes ahead of us on the board. I think that what the people really want to hear is a Mornhammer episode. Yeah. But I'm TbH kind of terrified of that. It's going to be tough. Yeah, well, that'll be the next episode. In the meantime, if you like the program, tell your friends, and go to MaxramineFund.org slash Donate and become a monthly supporter and get all of our bonus content in the donor feed. Go listen to our other shows that are also on MaximumFund.org. We've

got the greatest discovery which is about Star Trek Discovery and there's episodes about every episode of the first season and we're now doing kind of like news and reading the comics and talking to interesting you know people who have written interesting things about Star Trek Discovery and just having a generally great time over there. In exactly a month we will have landed in Vegas to spend the first of a couple of days before our show in Las Vegas around the time of Star Trek Las Vegas, the convention. Yes indeed, so go to greatestjynconkha.com and find your tickets there. So many other dates on that tour too that we've added. Hopefully you're able to find one that is close to you.

Yeah, and we'd love to see you all out there. We should thank Dark Materia for our original theme music and Adam Ragusia, who's made so much new theme music for us. It's really kind of embarrassing, including a brand new custom theme song that we're using on the greatest Jen contour. That is one of my favorite things. Yeah, it's really great. And we should thank everybody that goes on social media

and tweets and Facebook's about how much they like the show. If you'd like to talk to other folks, you can use the greatest Jen hashtag on Twitter or go to the Facebook group or the subreddit. We are able to do this because the show found an audience and the more you guys put the word out, the better we can make the show because the more focused we can put on it.

So that really helps. And all those social media communities are really great, thoughtful, fun, and interesting people, so I encourage you to get involved. Find a friend there, or a lover, even. That happens. That does happen. With that, we'll be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek, Deep Space Nine and another episode of the greatest generation Deep Space 9.

That is, Form Day Splinter Group, for whom Ben has given some sort of weird French name, because he would be the one that splits off and forms a splinter group with a French name. What would you name your splinter group in. I'd probably just go a lot resistance. Of course. La pâtisserie, le boulangerie, le bauf, maximum fun.or Comity in culture, artiste owned, listeners supported. supported.