The Greatest Generation - The Shelby Treatment (S5E3)

Episode Date: January 16, 2017

When "The Bad Girl of Starfleet" beams aboard the Entrepreneur, the crew treats her like an outcast. But when a sneaky admiral assigns her a secret mission, her true nature is revealed. How do you get an appointment at Starfleet Supercuts? How does Guinan know when you need her? Just what is Starfleet Uniform Code, anyway? It's the episode that's one big love letter to Michelle Forbes.

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the greatest generation. A Star Trek podcast by two guys who are a little bit of bears to have a Star Trek podcast. I'm your host, Adam Pranika.

I am also your host. My name is Benjamin R. Harrison. Ben, we keep getting gifts in the mail. Doing now. And I feel like the best thing to do is to talk about them when they arrive. Yeah, we made that mail drop and maybe that can be used for this also. Yeah, we might as well use it for stuff other than hate mail. I'm sorry to disturb you.

I'm receiving a Code 47. Verify? It is Code 47, sir. Startly emergency frequency. Captions eyes only. A little while ago, Maxphone e-mailed us and they were like, Hey, we keep getting packages sent here for you. Where do you want it to go? And that really, like, really like email is an emotionless

Form of communication, but that was really the vibe was was frustration Antipathy These are these are the things that I read in this email and I was like, yeah send it to me that sounds great So I just opened this package bed. Yeah, and you are not on camera because if you were you would see So I just opened this package bin. And you are not on camera. Because if you were, you would see an action figure. What? For Mordak, the Benzite.

No. Yeah. I didn't know that they made an action figure of him. Mr. chaotic bro himself. Yeah. And that's the original Chaotic Bro, right? That's not the Chaotic Bro Tokyo Drift. Yeah, that's not Mendeck. Mendon.

Mendeck. Yeah, that was Mendeck. This is Mordak, the OG Vapor. And he has Kung Fu Vaping Action. He's got the whole thing. And he has Kung Fu vaping action. He's got the whole thing. I was out at a family dinner not that long ago with a cousin of my wife's and a bunch of my cousin's friends came along

and one of them wanted to tell me about his vaping app that he was working on, developing. It was one of those like, like, curb your enthusiasm. This is my life moment where I just like, I'm gonna be sitting in this corner booth, like, trapped with uncles and cousins on all sides, and everybody's talking to somebody else,

and I'm talking to the guy who's trying to make it big as a, as a vape app developer. I'm gonna do something right now on Mike that will either horrify or amuse some people, Ben. I want you to listen very carefully. I've opened the action figure. I've opened them right up because I want more dock to be on my desk staring at me at all times. The only action I used to have an action figure of myself is a Vulcan but then I knocked it over and it broke in a million pieces because it was 3D printed. Oh the only action figure I

currently have in my life is a puey Herman action figure. He sits on my desk and looks at me while I do work. I love that. Yeah, of course, but. And sometimes I'll just turn to him and go, I know you are, but what am I? Okay.

This package bin did not come with a return address or a name. Otherwise I would think this person individually. But, so whoever you are out there, I really appreciate the gift and you should know whoever you are that Mordak is in a place of honor watching me work at all times. Probably keeping his criticisms to himself until such a time that the time is right for him to tell me that there's a major problem that I should be addressing. Yeah, that no return address thing is a bit like the trading cards that somebody sent

in. They sent in a huge collection, it was probably like their entire childhood collection and they're really cool And I enjoy looking at them all the time, but they never said who they were so I just have to I just have to Appreciate that we have them I guess Yeah, thanks guys. Thanks everybody. Thanks strangers So with that bit of gratitude Done let's turn the page towards an episode on a different emotional spectrum. I'm entitled to ramble on about something everyone knows.

So this one opens up with Picard getting his haircut by the Chatti Cathy bullion barber. He's in Starfleet Supercuts. Yeah, totally in Starfleet Supercuts. And there's a real Spocklaken guy in soft focus in the background. Did you see that guy? No. There's like another person in there getting his hair cut by a human. And never so often the camera goes to an angle where you can see this,

this Vulcan also getting a hair cut. I love, I love the idea of a Vulcan like needing to go in for a trim. I got such severe haircuts that must take a ton of maintenance. There's something really satisfying about thinking of a future where service industry jobs still exist. Yeah.

And the people who work those jobs are just people who love doing them. Yeah, this guy is a real extrovert. He's picked a job that has got some adventure in that it is stationed on the enterprise, but he gets to be a people person. Could you fucking imagine you are a barber on the flagship? Like that's gonna be the greatest job ever.

And you've got a rep, right? Riker says he's the best barber in the fleet. It's true. You know what, while we're on the right? Riker says he's the best barber in the fleet. It's true. You know what, while we're on the subject of Riker, this is two straight episodes where Riker seems real crabbing. I said shut up! Ha ha ha! Are you picking up on that at all?

Is it just because we're binging the episodes that it's more noticeable? Maybe, maybe he's still a little butt hurt that he didn't really get anything to do in episodes one or two of redemption. Yeah, that's understandable. He got his big two-parter though. Fire. Yeah. I mean, Riker at this point is a character... I would say that the order of order of starhood on the show definitely is Picard is the star and then like data and wharf are secondary stars and raker is now hanging out in the tertiary star position

with Beverly and Troy and Jordy. Works for me. So Picard is growing more and more irked by, you know, Matt's doing that thing where he's assuming a familiarity with the superior that doesn't really exist. You can see it all over Picard's face. He doesn't want to talk about the missions. He doesn't even really want to talk at all. And he doesn't even really want to get a haircut,

I don't think. Yeah, I mean. Why do you see there? I don't know. Can't they, don't they have like a robot that can do this? Sure seems that way. I don't know why it's a job.

This is, like Picard feels how I feel when I get a haircut though. I don't want to talk's a job. This is like, but card feels how I feel when I get a haircut though. I don't wanna talk to anybody, you know? Yeah, you just wanna brown beverage and a chill. Yeah, like, fucking talk to the other barbers or something. Leave me alone. I don't wanna tell you what I do for work. I don't wanna tell you why I'm getting my haircut today. I don't even really want to tell you how I want my haircut.

Well, I'm sure they really love you down at SportClip's been. Yeah, SportClip's always has great brown beverages. Yeah. You seem like that type that would bring your own. Yeah, I got a little hip flask with me. So Crabby Riker gets Picard off the hook with a communication. He's like, hey, I got some news. You better haul ass back to the bridge.

And Picard cannot wait to leave the barber's chair. Nothing I love more than a distress signal. And even that gets some commentary from Mr. Moth the barber. Have you ever had a bald barber, Adam? Bullying some seem to be a hairless race. Yeah, they're like dolphins. You don't see bullions with a bunch of hair. They're a race of talkers though.

Yeah. Which is what makes them uniquely qualified for that job. They should hang out with the allorians. That's like a match made in heaven. I love that the barbershop culture in the 24th century still has the idea of the pole. You know, like there's that symbol in the background for the barbershop. It's the communicator with the like the ribbon around it. Yeah. That is just the universal sign of barber, isn't it? Yeah, hundreds of years in the future,

they're still referencing when barbers were surgeons and what rap bloody rags around posts outside their tents on the battlefield. Do you think Matt keeps his combs in six bay in the barber side? Yes, to go down there. Very doctor crush, or just grab my stuff. I mean, it's sort of a pain in the ass, but he likes the walk.

Do you think that they've gotten like real hipsterie and like some people like the throwback nature of a barber surgeon and we'll prefer that over a trained medical practitioner. I don't know, I think everything's on the table. Yeah. Do you think some people ask for the sign felt? Yeah. Yeah.

Q definitely does, right? A little bit longer in the back. Yeah. Does Q need a haircut? I don't want to be a scientist, folks. Hahaha. Well, Q cuts his own hair, obviously. That's when you can tell that someone's depressed

is when they cut their own hair. Mm-hmm. So word on the street is when Picard gets to the bridge, that a settlement has been destroyed by some pejoran terrorists. Yeah. This is a very important settlement because it's sort of in a place near Cardassian space. Yeah. And so they need to proceed with caution here. There's a lot of delicacy around the Cardassian peace treaty, uh, you know, especially after that stunt Ben Maxwell pulled. We've only seen the Cardassians like one or two other times, right? Have we seen them other than the Ben Maxwell episode? I don't think so.

I think that's the only other time that we've seen Cardassians. Oh, Brian's just got to be thrilled again. His life sucks right now. Yeah. Well, to get this news that this settlement has been raised and they get some audio transmission from bejorin terrorists claiming responsibility and that's our push to title sequence. When we come back, the enterprise is pulling into a big orbital star base.

Probably the most dangerous thing they could be doing. Right. It's like, well, it seems like things are not going well. So let's go risk the ship getting hijacked or destroyed or compromised in some other way So on the on the star base Picard has a little sit down with an admiral and again This is a this is a moment for him to mend fences with the admiralty in Starfleet Well, he had that one decent interaction with the admiralty in episode one of season five, but generally speaking, Picard and the admiralty are not pals.

If we're talking about in totality, like if we're looking at a pie chart of good moments with admiral's and bad moments with admiral's, I think the part of the pie on the negative spectrum is going to be bigger. Yeah, so this guy has a bit of a head cold and his vibe with Picard is pretty adversarial, but I think that Picard is trying to make good, so he basically eats every plate of shit that Admiral Kennelly puts under his nose, and the plates of shit are these. Picard's mission is going to be to go make contact with this

pejoran terrorist known as Orta, and bring him back to discuss this terrorism situation with Starfleet by any means necessary. And on top of that that Picard has had an ensign attached to the mission by orders of Admiral Cannelly, and this ensign is known as Ensign Row. She has a wrap. She is the bad girl of Starfleet. She basically shows up in a leather jacket smoking a rap. She is the bad girl of Starfleet. She basically shows up in a leather jacket smoking a cigarette.

Yeah. As soon as she beams on board, everything about her reads is different. And not in a cartoonishly pronounced sort of way. Like, this begins Michelle Forbes appreciation cast with your host, Adam Pranaka. Yeah, I mean, I love how they do this, right? Like, they cut to Riker in the Transporter Bay and he's got like a real, you know, you

can tell that he's getting ready to do some leaning. He's got displeasure painted on his face. And he's radioing up a card to say, like, why is this person being beamed on board the ship? There must be some mistake. And like everybody is talking about Row Laird, like she's the most notorious person there is. most notorious yet person there is and and she plays the part but we don't know how notorious until we cut out of this scene with etterall kennelie going it was really tough getting her out of prison for this you'd be temporarily reinstated in the forces and if the mission successful there may be a presidential partner yeah at first you just think it's a bad attitude and a scowl, but it turns out like she did some seriously bad shit.

It's fun stuff. She also beams aboard wearing some like hot topic costume jewelry and Riker is having none of that. Like he's gonna let it slide with Whf, but not with somebody who's coming straight out of the brig to go on this mission. I really, this surprises me, and I guess I haven't noticed in other crew members the whole lack of dangly jewelry, but I guess working on a starship is like working in a factory. You don't want anything to get caught in a machine, right? There's been plenty of times where super magnets could have, you know, caused some really serious damage and they'd have to roll back that banner that hangs

on the bridge that counts how many days it's been since an accident. Data basically is jury by that rule though. Yeah, and what about two chaotic two bro? He was walking around the ship all the time with a vape on his face. Yeah, I think what's happening here is that as the exo-writer is picking and choosing how strongly to enforce codes of all kinds and with one role-erin as I guess his Picard pronounces it, Ro-Lalon. Ro-Lalon.

Ro-Lalon. Ro-Lalon. Ha-ha-ha. He's going to be particularly by the book with her. Yeah. Maybe it's a, maybe it's like a long game thing with Riker. He's looking to bed this lovely lady.

And he's decided that he's going to go big dog with his opening volley. You will follow Starfleet uniform code aboard this ship, it's me. It's weird, like, Riker, either, Riker only has two speeds with women he doesn't know or who might be, quote unquote, headstrong. Like, either he turns into a total flirt

or he shall be's them. Yeah. And he's giving Ro the Shelby treatment here, headstrong. Like either he turns into a total flirt or he shall be's them. Yeah. And he's giving row the Shelby treatment here big time. Yeah, but she has a lot less, I mean, even though she is coming with the with the blessing of an admiral, she has a lot less woofie than Shelby ever did. Right. So, so their mission is going to be to go figure out what's popping with these Terroristic pejorins and they have a McLaughlin group and they're discussing like what the What the what the right strategy is and they're like well, there's this great pejoran that you know He shows up at all of the conferences that we always go to on showcrafts by ourselves We love this guy and he seems like a real good hang and openly contemptuous in the corner

and this McLaughlin group row is like, listen, like that guy is the like warm and fuzzy bejure and that they roll out for the federation. No real bejure and give a fuck with that guy things. He's not a leader. He's not somebody that anybody throws their support behind when the chips are down. Yeah, he's like a figurehead. He doesn't have any real power.

Mm-hmm. And Rose, like, look, if you want someone with real power, I'll take you to the guy. Yeah, Rose, the guy you to meet has like Bob Ross hair. He is not the cleaned up bejure in that they send to conferences. He's like, he's a funnier bejure than that even. Yeah, yeah. For his resistant to her presence as everyone is supposed to be. Like Picard asks her

advice and she gives it and then Picard takes her advice for action. Yeah I mean I think that Picard is not super stoked about this mission but he's a company man you know. He's gonna do the job that he's been given if if If Admiral cannelly wants him to shovel shit. He's gonna shovel shit until Admiral cannelly says stop Row and a dustbuster club beam down to this planet to meet up with Bajor and Bob Ross. Yeah, Kiva is the guy's name in the show, but we know him to be Bajor and Bob Ross. And...

One of the first things Row does is pull off her uniform as if like she's a stripper cop pulling off a uniform made of velcro. Like she rips off her jacket and sticks it on a little girl. Yeah, suns out at them. Yeah. There's some fun continuity in this because she's got the good, her communicator magically appears underneath. Yeah, and she's also got like, she's got the good uniform with the zipper in the back. You know, like, you see like, extras get the zipper in the front uniform.

She's got the one with the zipper in the back, but when she kneels down, that uniform opens up front-wise, and also her communicator, yeah, like, must beam itself onto her inner blouse, she does not move it herself. Picard plays this scene cool because he's seen magic like that before and does nothing when he sees it. So I think Ro might be more powerful than we can imagine at this point.

Yeah, this is like a scene that gets cut from a David Blaine special because the reaction wasn't that good. Yeah. Like the trick is really impressive, but nobody reacted in a way that's really like emotionally affecting. The whole away team should be running away. It's so amazing. Yeah, the whole away team should be Harrison Ford like kicking her out of their house. Dustbuster Club React. So, yeah, this is a settlement of pores, and it's rare to see poor folk in this show. Like these are people that are really living on the edge. You can tell, there's straw over the ground, there's unsupervised children running all over the place.

There's some dirty faces. And Keeva is a real dick to them at first. He's a prickly dude and he talks a lot of shit. But the second Rolarean throws some attitude back at him. He turns over real quick and Picard's like hey We'll beam down like every single thing that you need because it's no big deal. We have replicators and Everybody's gonna get a blanket Warf's gonna figure out anything else you might need you guys got that stuff too and the guys like well That's great like let me know whenever you need help It's weird that they that they stick wharf on this duty. It's a real

save-the-children type scene down there. Do you think that when bejorins, like especially bejorin men, are looking at their own loaf and then they look at wharf's loaf, they get real like real self-conscious around wh world. They get big loafed. Yeah. It becomes a real loaf measuring contest. It's gotta be amazing to get a replicator in that circumstance, right? Yeah. It changes everything. I know.

Hey, word of advice, guys, maybe replicate a broom. Okay. Guys, maybe replicate a broom. So the next scene is in 10 forward and row is having a nagroni and trying to have as bitter a personality as her drink. And Jordan's over in the corner talking shit about row to G Gynon and Gynon's like I love people to get Shit talked about them. I'm gonna go hang out with this chick and so She she kind of like shame shames Joradi, you know good Yeah, Joradi's a dick. Yeah, Joradi's being a real shit head

One of the most unlikeable things that J Jordi has done and that's saying a lot. God, his monument to bad decisions is mighty. Yeah, so so Kainin goes and she and and Roe have a little conversation. Kainin is basically not taking no for an answer on becoming buddies with Row. And they... This is just a scene about establishing that, you know, Row is intentionally putting up walls around herself. And Gynon doesn't fuck with that shit. She's going to be friends with a Row likes it or not. She's going to gonna be friends with a row likes it or not. She's gonna use her bar gun to shoot right through those walls. Indeed. And you can see it crack row a little bit and this isn't this is one of a few examples in this episode where the subtlety of Michelle Forbes is acting is apparent. Like, she can't just start beaming

at how cute Gainon's being with her. He's got to play it cool and she does. Yeah, I mean, it's a subtly written scene too. It's like it's a nice piece of script to sink your teeth into as an actor because what you want is not necessarily what's good for your character. And that's always a tricky thing to play, I think.

I get the feeling that she is hanging onto her character as hard as the character itself is hanging onto her story. Like, it seems like she is so in control of every moment. And like every space in between lines of dialogue is so intentional that I don't know, it just makes for a really strong performance. Indeed. I think if you miscast Row, like you blow the episode here, it's like she carries the whole weight. Yeah. They're like, we're going to need somebody that can have Detroit hair show hair and still put on a pretty good performance

That's the level of actor we need Look and I don't want to disparage Canadian cute, but like you you can't cast Canadian cute for this part. No Michelle Forbes is fucking hard. Yeah, but with the soft side. She does a nice job. Yeah So this scene ends with her having to run off to her bedroom and take a facetime from Admiral Kennelly. Everything is going exactly as you predicted, Admiral. Which is the first sign we've had that something more is afoot than meets the eye.

And this is like not a subtle scene. It know, it's just like, it's like your evil plane is working sir. Yeah, Kennelly is doing everything but pet a white cat. The next stop is meeting with Orta, the terrorist leader, and Picard and his Despester Club meet up in the transportor room and they're like, well, Enson Row is super late and they ask the computer where she is and it turns out she beamed down to meet with Or to six hours ahead of everybody else. She got a real jump on the day and they be sort of a shell beam move, isn't it? Yeah. Not unshelby like.

They beamed down and this is the first set of Styrofoam caves we've had in a long time. Yeah. I missed Styrofoam caves. Yeah, me too. I feel like I feel like I might be wrong, but I feel like they become a bigger part of the show from here on in. Like this is a really good Styro cave set

that they built and they're like, let's just keep this around in case we ever want to write other things that are happening underground in rock. Through with castles. Caves are the thing. Yeah, Caves are the way of the future. So they're looking around, they make the classic horror movie mistake of splitting up and

wouldn't you know it, they all get captured and outcomes, but Jordan Bane. Welcome Captain Picard. Welcome Captain Beguix. I see you found me. Do you like the way my voice is being modified? The Kardashian's tortured me. You will get tortured by Kassassian's later. But I have already been tortured by Kassassian's. I have already been tortured by Caucasus. Yeah, he does a nice long reveal, like he's wearing a, he's wearing sort of a wrap around

his face, a wrap made of clothing, not of tortilla. He opens it up and he reveals this big scar across half of his face, and also a little, little button on his throat that gives him machine voice. Yeah. Adam, I think this is a great time to talk about the fact that wraps are, if you can believe it, even worse than cold sandwiches as a food. I disagree. I like a wrap.

I don't want all that bread weighing me down. I need pure power. That is a terrible food. That is a terrible food, Adam. A cold tortilla is one of the worst things I can imagine eating. I would much rather open a wrap up and dump it out and eat it as a salad. I am a disgusting person for saying this, but sometimes I like save half of the burrito for the next day.

I'll just eat that shit cold. I'm into that. Oh, I'm into that. But that's the cold tortilla. But that. Oh, I'm into that. But that's, but that's, the cold tortilla. But that tortilla has been through some shit. That tortilla has marinated in the juices. A wrap doesn't marinate. That's a dry cold tortilla.

Bad news, bears. Yeah, I don't know, man. I disagree. I'm down. Put it in your cup holder. You're good for driving. I have to eat wraps all the time because they're like one of the most ubiquitous free foods

and in the film and television production business, free food is a major part of your landscape. And often you don't have a choice of what lunch is. Yeah. Hey, get yourself a wrap from crafty. Give me a pizza, a slice of pizza any day of the week. Give me a cold sandwich before you give me a wrap. And I don't even like cold sandwiches.

Dude, that is where your capital are wrong, Ben. If I ever see fucking pizza on a craft services table, fuck that. I'm so much happier seeing pizza than a wrap. You want to see people in intestinal distress? Are farty and greasy after eating some pizza? No thanks. Maybe it's just a mirror. I don't want to mindset, pal.

Maybe it's different in New York, but the pizza here is good. A lot has been written about how pizza has no place on a film set, Ben. I'm going to send you some academic papers on the subject. I went to film school. I've read them. I'm just saying it's better than a rap. I'm not saying it's the ideal craft services food. You know what? Don't you ever fucking say that to me again? Mr. I went to film school. Oh great, Adam and Ben are fighting again. Well, I went to film school. Roller and gets in a big, big trouble with Picard because, you know, this situation with

Bane doesn't go as bad as they had thought, but, you know, like they find out that Bane was not in fact behind the terrorist attack, and he, you know, implies to Picard that maybe somebody is using Picard, and it's not the mission he thought it was, but they come back and Picard is ripsh it with Rowlaren for defying. Even though what she did got him some very valuable new information, the way she did it was no good, so she gets grounded. He has the scene with her that Riker has a Shelby in the turbo lift. He needs to jerk the chain Yep, and he does real hard. Yeah, and

when she gets grounded she goes back to her quarters and this is the obvious moment that Gainin would show up so sure enough Gainin does and this is a really nice scene because Gyanin and Row talk about like how helpless it feels to have lost everything. Like they've both been displaced from their home worlds and have both had a really tough go of it. And I thought it was great and it was like one of those scenes where you're like this is going to get this episode onto the other side of the Bechtel test.

This is great. And then the last line is basically a guy and saying, the only way to solve your problem is to make John Luke Picard solve it for you. I didn't interpret it that way. I mean, I'm not saying that that's like what the seed is about, but it does kind of kneecap the fact that it's just two women having a real scene with each other. The last line is the only thing you can really count on in this world is John Luke Picard. Well, it's not needing him because he's a man, it's needing him because he's the captain of the ship.

Well, that's the thing with the backdeltest, right? It's not about it being the particular character. It's about the fact that women never have scenes where they're not talking about men. Right. I like the scene a lot because it's another example of guy-n-f Finding You when you need her. Yeah, it's like picking up a phone and someone has already called you and you didn't know it. Yeah.

Yeah. Remember when that used to happen? I love that. Um, like Gain and essentially uses her special relationship with Picard to give Ro a hall pass and they go up to his ready room and Ro is like, listen, Admiral Kennelly came to me in prison and told me he'd arrange to get me out if I'd go on a mission. I know that part. No sir, not this mission. And I've been in touch with them this entire time and I'm really sorry I just didn't know

who to trust. And Picard is like, Admiral Kennelly would consider supplying weapons to the terrorists. So they come up with a sneaky little plan, Adam. Well, that's also the scene where Ro decides to disclose her past with the Kardashians in a long single shot of her monologue about watching her dad being tortured to death after being lured into a cave with some sugar candy. It was a ward show awesome. Yeah, it's a good, I think everybody comes out of this scene looking pretty solid.

Yeah. Because it's also a scene, I mean, for as much as it's a scene about establishing like why Roe is so damaged and why she is motivated in the ways that she is, it's also about establishing Picard as heroic because he is true to his principles. He has been asked to compromise on something pretty major and is not going to do it, and that's not going to be convenient for him. Like he's definitely taking the harder path now, which is putting himself in direct opposition to orders that an admiral has given him. This is such an example of how much more sophisticated the writing is this season and this episode, specifically than it has been in the past because with O'Brien's backstory with the Cardassians, you get the button on him that like he's ashamed of what he became because of the Cardassians and

that that is a more or less predictable outcome for him given what he's ashamed of what he became because of the cardacians and that, that is a more or less predictable outcome for him given what he's been through. But for Rose, one or two conclude with her feeling ashamed that her dad wasn't stronger through torture and like the fallout from that moment isn't that she was horrified at seeing her dad die. It was her own interpretation of his death that that hollowed her out in the way that it did. Yeah. Was was just like it was better than this show usually gets with backstory. It's really great. And so sophisticated. So terrifying as a as a baddie. You need her to be able to tell that story in a way that is terrifying

and and she's able to do it. Like you don't get a cut away. You don't you don't get some doodle of dudes to a flashback. Like all you all you get is her and a slow push and it's enough. Pretty good. So they come up with this plan and what they're going to do is fly along the border with Cardassian space with this bejure and cruiser and it is heavily implied that Orta is on board this cruiser and they're going to go to this other place with Orta and as they do it like sure enough some Cardassian cruisers fly up to them and they're like hey we want to blow up that ship why don't you guys clear out so we can do it. And they have a little little back and forth about it and Picard radios it into Admiral Kennelly and Kennelly's like you gotta let him do it man and Picard is like well that's isn't that interesting. Isn't it possible that what's going on now is a Cardassian thought maybe you would you would help him get Orta

because Orta has been a problem for the Cardassians and you thought that you thought that it would be worth helping the Cardassians get Orta now that they're now that the Bedurans are also bombing federation settlements. So Kennel's like, yo fuck you man, just let them do their thing. And because he's like, well, orders is orders. That nature take its course. Yeah. So they clear out, they let the Cardassians blow up the ship

and Kennelly face times up and he's like, well that went great. And Picard's like, oh did it now. And proceeds to explain to cannelly that no one was on board. What are you talking about? The Cardassians just blew up a ship that was empty. There was no way the Bedurans could have been blowing up human settlements in other sectors

because their ships are pieces of shit and don't even have warp capability. So Kennelly was a useful idiot to the Romulans, I guess. Or to the cardassians, I guess. Boy, there are some dire consequences for useful idiots, aren't there? Yeah, so Kennelly basically gets caught with his pants down and you got to hope that Captain Picard is like recording this whole thing on one of those one of those pens that records the audio so that he can prove it later. Well, what's great is like Kennelly's message comes in on priority one which is normally supposed to be taken in private and he's like, now, like let's play it

for the whole bridge crew. Yeah. So Kennelly is embarrassed in front of everybody. And, uh... And then Rowan Picard on the button for the episode, sort of, joke about what prison cell he's gonna be in. We're not going to white collar resorb prison. No, no, no, no. That was an interesting tone. Yeah, yeah, because, uh, because Rowan is fresh out of prison, and, out of prison and they're speculating that Kennelly in the wake of this little scandal may be headed to the same Pokey that she was just in.

And the episode ends with Picard kind of saying, like, hey, listen, you got a little bit of grit. You're a little rough around the edges, but I think you could be a pretty good officer. And if you want to hang out, if you want to stick on board the enterprise, let me show you what's what. I think you could be a great officer. And row is like up for the challenge, you know?

Yeah, it's a nice ending. Feels good. Feels like Rose can stick around. Fun times. Did you like this episode, Adam? So, so much. One of my favorite episodes. Yeah, it's a really good one. I think this feels like a data's day

amount of departure for the show in what it chooses to give power to. Yeah. Like, I think we've seen power demonstrated in a lot of ways, in what it chooses to give power to. Yeah. I think we've seen power demonstrated in a lot of ways, but mostly it's like at the end of a phaser or a batlet, like power recently has been cling on ships and wide eyed galron and stuff,

but now we're seeing like rose power, which is like this intense quiet power that is so different, like it's posture power, and it's like an economy of words that she uses. And like, when I was growing up, like this was, this was puberty show for me, you know? And like, I super identified to a cranky young crewman who did not want to follow the rules. And so I really liked Ro as soon as I saw her. And I still do. I think she's one of the show's best characters.

Well, I think she's down to follow the rules as long as they stack up to her idea of what is just. And that I think especially is a really like appealing idea as a as a puberty person. Yeah. My question, one of the questions that came up for me while I was watching the show was would her petulence have worked for Wesley? If they wrote Wesley the way they wrote row, does he suddenly become a more interesting character? Like if he is instead of worshiping at the altar of Picard and so into the idea of the Federation and its mission, what if instead he is a little more puberty about it.

What if he is a little more petulant and resistant to the idea? And his art instead becomes like being worn down into a great officer instead of wanting that to be the dream from the start. I think that would make him more interesting and less clueless and annoying. That's sort of how the Kirk character is in the new movies. Yeah, yeah. And it is. Yeah, great call. Fun to see that. Yeah, so I mean.

There's just nowhere for him to grow, getting back to Wesley, there's nowhere for him to grow if he already starts out on the team. Yeah. And this way with row, like there is an arc set in motion here. Yeah, and the more integrated she gets, the more interesting it gets because she is so different in terms of her foundational character motives than all of the other characters. Yeah, what makes Wesley uninteresting is there's no conflict there, and with Roe, it's almost all there is. Well, much like a petalant teenager, her one condition for staying on the ship and staying in Starfleet is she's got to be allowed

to wear that hot topic jewelry. Yeah, that bling though. Picard looks at his own jacket and he's like, I've got action jacket, there's no reason why you can't put on some costume jewelry. We're all making weird costume decisions here. Let's do it. Did you like the episode, Ben?

I like it a lot. It's a great one. Yeah. I'm right there with you. I really like the Cardassian that wants to blow up the ship. Like he doesn't have much to do, but they cast a really weird looking guy. Like you can tell he already looks weird without the loaf, and he's got a little bit of an accent.

He's real scary, especially after that monologue from Ro about what the Cardassians did there. The Cardassians arch you in a way different way than the Romulans do. They have, their dialogue is very similar, but their delivery is different enough that, I just sort of like the Kardashians more. They don't sound evil. They sound more a matter of fact in a way that I find more respectable.

I don't know, they're more straight ahead. Less of a chess match. Adam, there is a little blinking light here that could only mean one thing. It's a priority one message. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement on.

supplement on. supplement. supplement. Yes, extra. The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship. Ben, we have one priority, one message this week. It is of a personal nature, and it's from your wife. And it's for sweet booze.

Is it like your wife, Ben? Not my wife. All right, maybe the message will illuminate this. Goes like this Happy Birthday, sweet booza. Tell me Charlie and I are so lucky to have you in our lives. You are an amazing father and a wonderful husband. Thanks for embracing your baldness, so my childhood dream of being married to a hot bald man could come true. I love you, my anxiety. to a dream of being married to a hot bald man could come true. Hahaha.

I love you, my anxiety. Wow! You see, sometimes a father loses his hair in a predictable, male patterned baldness, Rudy, you have to embrace the baldness, or you don't get your foot in. It's important to love people for the content of their character.

Not whether or not they have hair. Is that Martin Luther Bain Jr.? Yeah. I have a feeling Bain is going gonna be a recurring character on our show. Happy to have him. Yeah, welcome Bane. Now we got another jumbo shron here. This one is from Matt and it's the Jenny.

I know I'm not half the captain, diplomat, lawyer, fencer. Bunkbed pilot or bondage enthusiiest is your first crash, JLP. What do you call that space piccololy plays in the interlite? There's no way you know, but he's better at that too. Even though I'm no JLP, thanks for letting me be your real doll for 18 years and thanks Adam and Ben for our number one pod. Wow, that is heartfelt. Thanks, Adam and Ben, for our number one pod. Oh, wow. That is heartfelt.

It's great to hear that a long-term relationship can survive the horror that is our podcast. I think that my relationship is the exception that proves the rule that nothing brings two people closer than the greatest generation. Well put, then. Wow, how'd you like your special person, your special lady in this case, to have had their first love be JLP? Those are big shoes to fill. Yeah, no kidding. That's... Those are big shoes to fill.

Yeah, no kidding. That is a... I mean, it's not an uncomplicated first sexual interest. Given some of the darker jokes that this show has entertained. But... One thing that Jenny knows for sure from her relationship with Matt, that she wouldn't ever get from Picard is that Matt is like not uncomfortable around women

and is okay expressing some feelings. Yeah, yeah, Matt is a fully realized adult human male in many of the ways that Picard is not. Matt, congratulations for finding your Vash here. Good job, by you. Yeah, nice one. If you have a happy birthday message or otherwise, for the people in your life,

you can go to maxmomfund.org slash Jumbo Tron where personal messages are $100. Company messages are $200. And they help us with the production of our show. Thanks a lot guys. Thanks. Hey, Ben. What's that Adam?

Who is your drunk Shimoda for this episode? Drunk Shimoda! My drunk Shimoda in this episode is the actor who plays Admiral Kennelly. Uh-huh. Because for all of the great performances we get in this episode, from Bejörn Bob Ross to that weird Cardassian guy, to Michelle Forbes, to Gynon, to Picard, this guy is given a lot to do and is caught dead to rights.

He is caught with the smoking gun at the end of this episode. And his last take to camera is so goofy. It's like a brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Why didn't he, as soon as he was on the view screen go, can you take me off speakerphone? Like, he should have bailed on that moment and he didn't. Yeah. He's the admiral. Yeah. He's the... Hey, Jean-Luc, why don't we take this in the ready room?

He just looks like a...like a...like a dad who's like a real young dad and lives in the Hollywood Hills and maybe makes a little bit more money than your dad, even though your dad is 25 years older than him. He really looks like tennis admiral. He's too fucking young. I don't like how young he is. I don't like seeing a younger man boss John Luke Picard around. It made me sad that a conspiracy involving admirals and the enterprise didn't end with admiral cannellies head being exploded by a laser fire, which is how I prefer conspiracies

to conclude. That's a great point, Adam. My Shimoda occurs in the caves. If you recall, Ben, we have a dustbuster club that includes My Shimoda occurs in the caves. If you recall, Ben, we have a dustbuster club that includes Picard, Data, Warf, and Troy. I'm going to ask you a quiz question, Ben, and we're going to see if you can get this one right.

Which of those crew members is not issued a phaser on a hostile planet? Oh man, it's got to be data because he's so strong he can defend himself whether or not he's armed, right? One would think, but no, it's Deanna Troy who is on the planet for some reason and is the only one in the dustbuster club who's not in the club. Yeah. Oof. That bummed me out. Yeah.

If you're a senior officer, you have weapons training, right? Yeah. When you go to a hostile planet, you should be armed. I don't understand that. Can I see you? It's another one of the really subtle slights that they give her character and Dr. Crusher. Like, I think a lot of people don't notice that, but Jesus Christ, guys. Yeah.

Stop stepping on that rick that, guys. Yeah. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre- and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour.

Let's do it! The Sherry Reembarishment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to greatestgentour.com to get more info. That's greatestgentour.com for dates and ticketing information for the Sherry Reembarishment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne.

On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the space weirds. Pat Noswald. Could I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Non-Giani.

I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps already open, just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Whoa, rats, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out.

I hate having to stand in line. And boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short neck. But I'm hearing we need to get on this off. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain, about a spout to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah?

Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Kerry? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came to by two.

What do you think? Ono Ross and Kerry, available on MaximumFun.org. Do we have something more armed coming up for our next episode, Ben? We have season 5 of episode 4. Silicon Avatar coming up. Picard struggles to communicate with a mysterious destructive force before a visiting scientist can destroy it. Do you remember this episode, Adam? Anything involving scientists involves old scientists, is Eric Hall.

Yeah. Uh, and I think that's about all I've, that's all I care to share about what I may or may not remember about this. This is one of your classic revenge grandma episodes. Oh, I love revenge grandma. Yeah. This is Pamela Voorhees. Are you going to employ a veto on this or is that excitement genuine?

I have pure excitement. Brent Spiner was not fond of this installment, noting I didn't think it was a very good episode. Michael Pillar, producer, says the same thing. I don't think the show was as effective as I wish it could have been. Director Cliff Boley rejected claims that the crew's attempts to communicate with the entity after all. The distraction it had caused for mildly optimistic. Well, the director seems to really like his own work here, which I think is pretty consistent.

I think it's on the back a little bit. Yeah, I thought it was great, meanwhile the actors are like crossing their arms, embarrassed for their performance. Yeah, it sounds like a pretty split decision on the reception for the show. I'm into seeing it though. Yeah, well, you don't have much of a choice.

We do have a choice. We are abdicating that choice and choosing to watch. We're gonna save that choice for something worse. It does get worse, doesn't it? It always gets worse. Well, that about wraps it up for this episode. If you'd like to talk about this episode or any of the others that you can wander on over to Twitter where I'm on there as at Cover Time

Ben is there as at Benjamin R A.H.R. and use the hashtag greatest Jen Yeah, I want to reach out to us or any of the other viewers who enjoy our program We also check in on the greatest Jen subreddit and the greatest Jen Facebook group, both their real lively and fun places to get to know other people with similar interests to you. We should thank dark materia for our music and Adam Ragusia for our other music. You know, Adam Ragusia just started that new Billy Joel podcast.

We didn't start the podcast. Do you know about this, Adam? I do know about this. It is a podcast by people who are embarrassed to like Billy Joel. Yeah. Yeah, he actually- Which is a theme I can really get behind. Yeah, he gave us a little heads up that he was going to be borrowing some of our format

for a new project and we're like, absolutely Adam Rekus, you're one of the best in the biz. Yeah, I've got no problem trading his original music for our approval of borrowing some bits. Fair trade. Yeah, I gave a couple episodes of listen and I enjoyed it immensely even though I don't know anything about Billie Joule. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it. So, don't let that be a barrier to your consumption?

Well, with that, we will be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation, and an episode of the greatest generation that's all about Rewenge! It's all about Omehata! Don't look at God on the U.S. And stand and cry. Make it sound. Make it sound. Don't look at God on God on God on God on God on God. Maximumfund.org Comedy and culture, artist owned Listen or supported. Artists on.

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