The Greatest Generation - The Sistine Chapel of Foreheads (DS9 S5E8)

Episode Date: October 7, 2019

When a pattern of dangerous off-station conference attendance emerges, it’s Sisko, Odo, Dax and Garak caught in the storm this time. But when it’s revealed that the story they experienced was all a dream, the fallout from their shared experience is all too real. Are there rules for a jailbreak? What’s your price for being creeped out? Are constraints a good thing? It’s the episode that’s worried about bungling it!

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdisotoforlabor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew, Deep Space 9. It's a Star Trek podcast by Kebel Guys who are a little bit embarrassed. To have a Star Trek podcast, I'm Ben Harrison.

I'm Adam Pryanaka. Well, yeah, almost said it's a Star Trek podcast from the makers of the Great Generation. That would have been recursive. That's also true. That's ATM machine. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, it's a totology. Gratis. Three gratis.

Can't do that. Yeah. Then new listeners would know what idiots we were right from jump. A ton tonology is a totology you can cut open and sleep inside. Yeah, totology that smells cut open and sleep inside. Yeah, topology that smells as bad on the inside as it does on the outside. Yep. Look for me, Al, that you're such a keen editorial sense.

We've been trying to get some work done. You keep having to pop up and deal with workmen, your house. I mean, let me just say this, Ben. I don't recommend having your sewer work done at any point in time if you can help it. Is that a biological analogy that you're making there? It would appear as though I am a great tax on a home sewer system. And it's led us to this point where things are getting

dug up, attached, and jetted. Yeah. And then cemented over again. It's been a long process. Your neighbors must be so excited. To my knowledge, it is me and the guy across the street are work from homers, and then most everyone else have jobs where they leave the house.

So hopefully I was only a distraction for that guy. As far as I can tell everyone in my neighborhood worked from home. That's insane. Yeah, I don't know why we're all paying these crazy rents if we just work in our house. Yeah.

Well, I got the place to myself today, Adam, because my wife just left for Palm Springs. Hey, that sounds pretty nice. I like Palm Springs. It's a bachelor at weekend in Palm Springs in August. Well planned. Is it a billion degrees there? Yeah, it's like just shy of one billion, I think. I mean, we just did a weekend hang in a tight of Atlanta in August, and that wasn't terribly oppressive.

A hundred degrees feels a lot different when you're in a lake and you've got an ice-cold beer in your hand. Yeah. I think you've got mitigating factors there. Yeah, I don't think that they're going to be getting in the salt and sea on a bachelor at weekend. Oh. The Talapeo will eat you alive! Yeah, this is coming out in October. Yeah.

I think our tour will be upcoming pretty soon at this point. That's right. If all goes according to plan a couple weeks from this episode, we will be back out on the road. We are way out ahead of our skis in terms of recording, which is good because we want to put all of our focus on the tour when the tour happens. Yeah, so if you're listening to this episode and we've been tragically killed months ago,

thank you. That's why you're hearing this now. Do you think we should put something like in our wills that Rob has to finish editing all the recorded material. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of people make this mistake, because Rob is the producer and editor of the greatest discovery and friendly fire. And I think a lot of people mistakenly think he has a hand in your weekly greatest

gen episode as well. Yeah, whenever anyone hears an edit they like on the greatest gen, they automatically attribute it to Rob, which is a great compliment to Rob, but also. It's to see him getting our compliments. Yeah, but also we have never not edited greatest gen. But I think in the event of our untimely demise, Rob should edit the rest of what's there. And I just picture him weeping while he edits.

Ben, we should record Tasha Yara like self-ulages. That can be turned into an episode. Look around the room and make eye contact with all of our viewers and say why they were special to us. No goodbyes. Just good memories. It'd be funny if we like Dead Man switched it so that like we have to do a certain thing online to keep that episode from going out.

Yeah, one of my favorite podcasts is Seven Seconds Delay. It's a super long running show on WFMU and it's I think it's been on the air for like almost 30 years now and they occasionally will record an obituary episode for somebody that's not dead yet and then like hang it on the wall of the studio and say like break glass in case Bob Dylan dies. Wow. Yeah. But so they record the episode like with all of the sincerity of Bob Dylan, his dead is dead and then so if you tuned in that you know the week that they recorded it and broadcast it you might think that Bob Dylan and that is amazing. Yeah it's really funny it's a funny show.

We should do that for us shouldn't we? I mean it makes you think about like what Tashiya's life was like that she had that current a recorded self-eulogy. It's got to just be a regular chore, right? Right. You mean all of your house chores are kind of automated at this point in the future, right? You don't have to pick your socks up off the floor

unless you're chief of Ryan. Your wife has made a big deal about it. It's a chore that really punishes procrastinator spin. Because I know the eulogy they would play for me would be many years outdated. Like thanking a girlfriend I had 15 years ago. What? Just as if that's true. Extremely bad look. No. Good thing your wife isn't wharf. Yeah, jealous lover of wharf. I think that every day. Oh, grateful I am about that.

Well, do you want to pivot to episode? Yeah, we've got to do that. Let's stop talking about things in the past, Ben. And instead talk about Deep Space 9 season 5 episode 8, things passed. Let's all go out on a runabout again. The show says. There's a pattern developing here that pattern is run about. Right. And in this case, it is a run about with Garrick, who is freshly out of prison for committing sabotage and assaulting Wurf in the Broken Link episode, along with Dax, Cisco, and

Odo on their way back from a conference. Yeah. Uh oh. This is like the third episode this season, I feel like that has run about from a conference danger. If I'd known what I was walking into, I'd never would have gone. It feels like if you are a room that is breaking a season

and you're looking at things like from high altitude, that 10,000 foot view of your creative output. Some patterns will emerge, right? Yeah. Patterns that you would want to remove, like, why don't they not see the conference thing as being a little overdone? I don't know.

Strange. Yeah. It's cheap. That's what it is, right? Yeah. When you're coming back from a place that you don't have to look at, that's a cheap intro.

The complaint garricaz is that he was not seen as a welcome influence on this, bejoring history conference. History of the occupation, I guess, is what they were talking about. Right. He's been sort of occupation truther at the conference, I think. Yeah, he kind of both sides to it at this conference and that was a very unwelcome position. Yeah, he was kind of Ben Shapiro-ing everybody like debate me coward.

Right. Was his watch word? Yeah, no one likes that, Gary. So nobody likes Ben Shapiro. Nope, there is a very fun edit happening here and we should mention this is an episode directed by LaVar Burton. Bullshit, man. This is bullshit. But like they do that thing where a plane is clear to land and you're in the cockpit, and you're seeing what they're doing to make that happen. And then you cut over to the tower, and the tower in this instance is Deep Space 9. Instance is deep space nine and they pick up the runabout coming in and it's on autopilot and everyone's been knocked out Yeah, it's a scary scene. Dr. Pestier to transport room five medical emergency. I really like that

There's not the scene where you see them getting knocked out. It's a lot is left to your imagination Like what happened in between the last time we saw the awake and conscious runabout crew versus what we see in ops. But yeah, it's worth, like a, a pejoran air traffic controller dealing with the fact that this runabout is coming in hot with knocked out occupants. I wonder if they ever considered the runabout being on a collision course. occupants. I wonder if they ever considered the runabout being on a collision course. Yeah, I kind of thought that there was probably some call for like getting a tractor beam involved or scrambling another ship to move it into a slightly different trajectory. So it doesn't just like slam into landing pad

one at, you know, full impulse. Yeah, I mean, but the moment that this is revealed to be a medical emergency Their treatment of the situation is totally different. It's be sure and worth that transport aboard The runabout and and see everyone slumped over their stations It's a bad look and then Cisco wakes up He's leaning up against some barrels on the promenade with Odo. A lot of bedraggled bejorins walking around. The lighting is totally different. It could be only one thing, Adam. The Mirror Universe. Yeah, where's Katzukira? But it's not

the Mirror Universe. It's the past. It's right, it's Teraq nor during the Cardassian occupation. Do you think that the past is the Mirror Universe? Do you think the barrels are full of canar? They wouldn't leave that much canar out for just a bunch of bedraggleds to get at? Yeah, you can't do that. Do you think you're making toilet canar if you're on that station?

Kru-no is what it could be called. The, the majorians have their own booze. They probably don't want canar. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that'd be no good. For a lot of reasons, they wouldn't want to drink that stuff. We cut back to the infirmary and the crew has been taken off of the runabout and then placed onto some beds

with clip show devices over their heads. And this is a bad sign. Yeah, these are an innovative new kind of clip show device that can actually give you new clips that you haven't seen before. Yeah, I was I was recoiling from the TV when I saw these things. Yeah, but don't worry, new clips. Yeah, new clips are good But you can't explain why a simple plasma storm would do this to the crew and he has a stack of 5,000 academic articles to read 5,021

To figure that out. Yeah, he's keeping it light He's got a serious medical emergency and he's being flip about how much research he's got it to. I love it. Yeah, it's got some of the same techno babble as interlight, I think. Like, you know, they're unconscious, but there's kind of a lot of activity going on in their heads that he can't explain. And on Teraqnor, DS9 of the past, the group, Cisco, Garrick, DAX, and ODO, are not getting made as like unusual presences in the

Bajorin section of the station. Like people are not reacting to Gerek as though he's a Cardassian, people are not weirded out by ODO or DAX or Cisco being not Bajorin. It's kind of a quantum leap situation where they see themselves and each other as what we know them as, but everybody else sees them as Bajorins that are just as bedruggled as anyone else.

They do not give us the quantum leap shot of looking into a puddle or a mirror or whatever. I wondered about the decision. I mean, I think it works without it. Yeah, no, I agree. But in a television show where so often we're shown them in Klingon drag or we're shown an obvious a tour made up to be a Kardashian, like it's a choice.

Eventually Garrett gets a hold of aian iPad and gets photos of them. And it's not even like a guy that looks like Cisco, but with a majority nose. It's like a different dude entirely. Right. It's just a plain white guy. Just a fucking chat. That's what he looks like. Yeah.

There are a bunch of Bracanthans, Adam. Hmm. They're from Racantha province. Yeah. And they start rattling off the names, and Odo knows these names. How'd you know that? Yeah, it's almost like Odo's finishing

gerek sentences when he's reading out the roll call of them. And Odo knows the name of his own doppelganger before it's even read. Yeah. So that's weird. Yeah, these are some dudes that got falsely accused, convicted, and executed for an attempt on Goldu-Cod's life. So this circumstance combined with Odo's hallucinations,

combined to make Odo kind of a haunted figure throughout this episode. He bumps into a bejorin zombie, and he is just totally frazzled by his circumstances. Keep seeing deceased bejorins walking around. Dax gets grabbed by some cardacians and taken to be sort of like a comfort woman for Goldu-Cut. And in trying to stick up where her garrick gets popped in the nose, we cut back to the infirmary and he's got blood streaming down his nose. So there's also a little bit of a matrix mechanic

at play here. There is very little cutting back and forth after this moment because this is the scene that makes the case that the connection is such between the two worlds that like any sort of attempt moment because this is the scene that makes the case that the connection is such between the two worlds that like any sort of attempt to separate them from what's going on in their brains could result in their deaths. So be sure you've got to kind of leave them alone from this point forward and the show

kind of does too. It's the moment where I began to worry that this was just all going to be a dream. And that worry was well-founded. Go to the cotton, go to the cotton. So. The remaining crew get rounded up and put behind the gate, the gate that exists in Terecnor of this time period. And it isn't long before Quark appears to recruit them to work at his bar because

that's what he does for waiters. Quark's vibe is much more evil in this episode. It made me think a lot about how much intentionality there was or wasn't in the massaging him into a likable character, because I think at this point in season five, Kork has done some really bad things in the past, but he's not currently doing really bad things. Like, Warf is currently way more an agent of chaos on the station than Kork is.

You know, it's interesting you say that about Kork because I didn't see him as any different than how he is at any other point. He's paying slave wages for restaurant employees at his workplace, and that seems like a version of him that we'd see at any time period. Well, yeah, except for now, he's like, his employees are unionized,

and he's off the Ferengy sphere of commerce. I think he was substantially evil or seeming in this. Hmm, he doesn't get a lot of time in this episode, I would say. Yeah, it's okay if you disagree, but you're wrong. Hmm, we cut over to Golducats Quarters and see what's going on with Dax. Dax, as comfort, as comfort Dax, she is brought into poor, a couple of glasses of canar. She introduces herself as Lita and to cut introduces himself as someone who just wants a friend to talk to.

Yeah, makes the case that he's just a chill man that he's not a bad person. Ironic, isn't it? Dax is super shaky in this scene and it made me wonder whether or not that nervousness was an act or was that real? That was one of my notes was I wasn't sure if this was to put on or if she was genuinely Really scared about what was gonna happen. I think that question gets answered later on when Dax drops that axe handle on his neck later. Yeah, I think this is an act Yeah, because we know that she's a badass, but she's very like her shoulders are rolled forward.

She's, you know, unsure of which bottle to pick up. Her plumage is dirty. Yeah. And unkempt. She does that thing where she has to hold the glass with both hands. We cut back to Quarix and Garrick is really bitching about this line of work. It is unbecoming of a tailor. He's really being forced to check his privilege, realizing that the occupation wasn't so nice

for the bejorans involved. Everyone's growing a little bit suspicious of Odo's behavior because he's seeing more and more of these visions. And also that whole thing about Odo knowing their names before them being, they were being read, sort of catches Cisco's attention and so he asks him, How did you know your name would be too more landing in this, this, whatever this is? There's a recency bias here, but the trials and tribulations episode was not long ago, and there's been some discussion of the timeline, whether they're going to

fuck the timeline up or not if they kill Golducot or whatever. And they start to realize that the timeline is in fact already fucked up, because at this point, in history, they can figure out basically what year it is, and at this point in history like they can figure out basically what year it is and at this point Odo was already the head of security on the station but in this version of the timeline that they're in in fact Thrax is the head of security on the station and Thrax is played by one of the all-time that guys Kurtwood Smith. Can you fly, Bobby? I love Kurt would smith. Ben, I never approached this with that in mind, the whole idea of a polluted timeline never occurred to me, but that makes the mystery of where they are

and why things are different so much more interesting. Had I been considering that? That's a really good note. Oh, and there's definitely a couple of wines about it in the script. But I didn't think that this episode pointed directly to that other episode. It's not super overt, but I could feel the tension of it, especially in the way Avery Brooks is behaving.

Yeah. The stakes get raised in this scene because they learn that their identities are those of three people that were executed on the station. And it sort of creates a lot of discomfort because if they are people who have been accused of attempting to assassinate Goldukat, it's only going to be a matter of time before that same assumption is made about them. So their lives are in danger.

Their lives are in danger and this is something that Odo has been hinting at the entire time and finally kind of just comes clean as like, yeah, like we're all going to be executed if we don't get the fuck out of here. Cool Odo, like, way do keep that to yourself up until now. He knows and he knew the entire time. It's only upon being pressed to the deced so. Kurtwood Smith is great as Thrax. You're right.

Yeah. We get a little scene between him and Quark just to kind of get a sense of where he's at as an investigator. And the menace of him as the kind of Cardassian predecessor to what Odo became is very evident. Like Kurtwood Smith is great at being the scary dad. Scary dad is something that Cardassians frequently are, right? And there's something about Kurtwood Smith, I think. You know, you take a look at his filmography.

Yeah. He's especially great at portraying that, but also like if you're a makeup artist, and you've got Kurt Wood Smith in the chair. Yeah. He's got the cysteine chapel of foreheads. Like, I know. You get, you got to be so jacked to put loaf on it, right?

The loaf looks so much better on him than it does on so many people. Yeah. Like he really, he's made for it. He fucking comes right through that loaf. It's so perfect. So Cisco is like, all right, I think I can get us off the station. I know how to get in touch

with the Bajaran resistance and we'll tell them the situation. They got to be nice guys, being the resistance are natural allies. So we'll do it. So what they do is they, uh, they head back to the Bajaran section and the signal for we want to meeting what the Bajaran resistance is, you go up to this stall that's selling like teapots and vases and stuff. You take a look at a vase and then you put it back down upside down. And then you go get a meal. And the Burian resistance guy comes up and is like I fucking hate the soup that they sell at this stall So you better make it quick. I thought that was gonna be part of the code like like you have to say something in response to a guy hating his soup

Yeah, it's like well, I hate sandwiches, so we have that in common Would you like any croutons? It helps the flavor. How do you feel about stews? Still too liquidy? This guy's great. Excellence in casting in this episode, I think, because resistance man sits down and starts dropping racial slurs on the cardacians.

If you've killed one of the spoon heads, spoon heads. Garek takes great umbridge with the slur, which I really enjoyed. But they don't get to sit with their soup very long before an explosion knocks DAX off of her feet. Yeah, a Guldu-Cod and DAX have kind of like come down to just kind of take a look at the Bajoran section. And that's when the explosion rips through the place.

And Sisko is very worried about Dax. And so runs into the fray, runs to her side. And that's when a bunch of Kerdassian guards train their rifles on him and the jigs up, everybody gets arrested. Why is Odo having hallucinations and no one questioning him about them? Because during the scene, the soup scene, Odo gets carry hands and starts freaking out. And no one says anything to him about it. This happens constantly throughout this episode.

They're like, you're gonna be all right, Odo. He's like, I'll be fine. Sisko's like, they're all gonna laugh at you. They're all gonna laugh at you. It's tough because instinctually you want to run to DAX who is down and injured, but you know, by doing that, it makes them suspicious. And it is in that suspicion that Cisco and Garrick and Odor thrown into the brig.

So we get the pan around the brig, and this is a time in the history of deep space nine when the brig was a much more crowded place. All three cells have people in them, but the three of them get their own cells. Gerek is making the case that, hey, we should get first-class cells. We're real bad dudes. Why are we not in our own section? Gerek might even deserve an in-cell.

For all the help he's been. Boom! Yeah, interesting to be here in this moment. For all the help he's been. Boom. Yeah, interesting to be here in this moment and Thrax is there too and you get to see a bit of his business. He's there doling out sentences and he is hyper-expedient with them. Yeah, it's kind of like the male colcine in a war movie

except for it's like you're getting executed at five o'clock, you're getting executed at seven o'clock. Right. Like you're going to be put in a hard labor camp at eight o'clock. When he turns his attention to our gang, we find that they're being accused of attempting to assassinate Golducat, and he's got a bunch of evidence, but this is Circumstantial and Odo is beginning to freak out even more than usual for this episode He's imploring him to do better and vestigatory work and he's being hyper specific about things if you examine the Frigmentation dispersal pattern you'll find that we couldn't have cron the grenade. Yeah, Odo has no chill in this scene

He he goes he's at a 10 when he starts yelling at Thrax and stays at a 10. You know, if you're a cop and you've got a suspect in a cell that you think did, you know, did a terrorist act and they start telling you like this level of specificity about why the evidence doesn't point to them. How do you, how do you interpret it as anything but the plan was that the evidence won't point to them. How do you interpret it as anything,

but the plan was that the evidence won't point to us. Right. You know? This unhinged Odo is kind of a joy to watch, though. Like, contextually, it does not work one bit because Cisco has really lost his grip on his crew here. Yeah. He's unable to rein him in in and he's really not curious about

what's going on with Oto until it's too late, I think. Pardon the pun, but Oto is such a solid dude so much of the time that you can kind of forgive Cisco for assuming he will continue to be that. Well, this is a pattern with Cisco, isn't it? Where he's a little too trusting of people and a little too incurious of their motivations and it often gets him in trouble. Yeah. This is why I give him a needs improvement

as a Starfleet captain. You think you might be the Peter principle of Starfleet captains, they sort of stay it as a commander? I like him a whole lot. He's not had a good season, I think in season five Well, it's got plenty of season five to get better. Yeah, maybe come next review time I'll have better things to say What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now?

What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now?

What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now?

What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? What are you doing now? have a lot of evidence to point to them and is fairly persuaded by it but is also interested in getting to the bottom of everything. Right. And I think that that's like the main thing about Odo is like he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to not know. Yeah, he can't help himself, right?

And it's weird because Thracks doesn't just tell Odo to fuck off like he could. Right. He seems open-minded enough to not do that and even later on he sort just tell Odo to fuck off, like he could. Right. He seems open-minded enough to not do that, and even later on, he sort of invites Odo into his security office to have a chat about things. Right. I think the case being made here is that Odo, like this is what made Odo the doggid investigator that he is. In DeCot's quarters, Dax and him are discussing what happened, this whole failed assassination thing.

While Dax chows down on a plate, just full of watermelon. Yeah, she's eating watermelon. Yeah, she's loving it. Her circumstances are pretty good, comparatively. Yeah, she's, she is completely in the dark, I think, about all of it.

Like, she's not gonna be executed no matter what. And might not even have really known about all of it. Like, she's not gonna be executed no matter what. And might not even have really known if Galdu Kod hadn't blabbed off about it. So she curkschaps him, knocks him out and gets on the computer and fairly swiftly is mounting a rescue attempt trying to break Cisco, Garek, Odo out of the who-scale.

Cisco is just starting to become curious about Odo and Thrax. He's kind of gone past curious and is basically accusatory at this point. You're implying that I should know the answers that I'm holding back information. Right, because they're understanding that this may not be timeline pollution.

Like why is it Thrax and not Odo? Is there an Odo that's going to appear here in this weird timeline? They're like peppering Odo with a bunch of questions and he just doesn't have any answers and it's at that point that Dax burns through the door. It's jailbreak law to peek your head through the hole you've made in the cell block wall, right? Miss me? Yeah, that's true. Do you think there are jail breaks where that doesn't happen and the people inside are like,

can you just do that again, but stick your head through the whole? It's not gonna feel right if you don't do that. Yeah, I know I would feel really let down by that. At day, Cisco, Odo and Garrick, girl threw 500 feet of cardacian shit and came out smelling clean on the other side. Woof, you think Cardacian shit smells like. Not good Adam, not good.

Yeah. They're heading down some hallways, they're getting in some laser fights with some cardacians. And I love when cardacians get in physical fights because their hair gets must, which is normally so perfect. And I wasn't positive that it was Thrax, but one of them is wearing the same shit as Thrax,

and then he goes gold. Yeah. I think it was Thrax. But what's weird about this person's identity is the Thrax scene that happens later between Odo and him and Odo never mentions it. Yeah, a couple of things that the script could have just had like, oh yeah, like this will come up in people's heads. Yeah.

We should probably write something about it. Yeah. Not a Swiss watch, this script. It's a fun action scene, and the payoff is really spectacularly disappointing because like they make it all the way to the shuttle. They do some beat-em-ups. They get through the shuttle door and like this is a nice edit here because they turn around. They look at the inside of the shuttle.

They think they're in and on the turn, we've cut back into the brick. I love it. It's not even a camera trick. There's nothing flashy about it. Now. And I think that this is the sign of a very confident director and Lovar Burton. Like it is, Cisco will stand there, will have half a beat where a look of confusion comes over his face. And when the camera cuts, we're in the cell and everybody knows what's going on. That's just where they are now. You don't need an effect for it.

It's made in the edit, it's great. It's really nice. This is where Cisco really turns on Odo. Everything seems to be back to you and I want to know why. Yeah and it's where Odo's grown more and more shaken. He's in a bad place, for sure. He seems super guilty at this point. Right.

He's consumed with guilt. And it almost seems like the episode is trying to imply that like this is something that Odo is doing to them. I know. I felt that way when I was watching. Yeah. And you wonder, like, is this a gold that's impersonating Odo? And that's what's going on? Or did Odo meet somebody at that conference that they were at and get tricked into something?

What's going on? I mean, we know that the founders methods can occasionally veer into hologram like circumstances, like that scene, that episode where Odo and Kira were in that cave together, like, there are things that can't be believed when you interact with them. And I thought the same thing. I thought this was just a large-scale projection meant to trick them somehow at this moment in time. So as Odo grows more and more shaken, Thrax takes Odo to the security office and Odo gets another at bat with Thrax, encouraging him to look for the truth, to sort of set aside his own convictions about only going for the convictions and not going for what the

truth may be. Yeah. Well, Thrax is season one Odo in a lot of ways. He is like rule of law and order ahead of all other considerations. Right. Like whether the law is just or not is less important, and that's kind of like the the big quote about Odo at the beginning of the episode is that he may have worked for their cardassians, but Justice was his only master. And I think Thrac's is there to stand as our example of why that is bullshit. Right.

As soon as Thrac said he knows where they're from and who they are, I expected the curtain to fall and the whole thing to dissolve. Yeah, it's not exactly what we get. We get maybe the flashiest shot on the episode Which is this rack focus into Odo and then we cut to the upper level of the promenade and the execution scene. Yeah, they do the the Spielberg push in to execution scene. Right and it it's, it's Garrick Dax and Cisco now being executed. So Dax has taken Odo's place as one of the accused. No more watermelon for her. She's in big trouble.

Yeah. And Odo's like, whoa wait, like I was one of the terrorists, like two scenes ago and Thrac says there were only three terrorists and it starts to become clear that this is all, this is all an imagining. I was one of the terrorists, like two scenes ago, and Thrac says there were only three terrorists. And it starts to become clear that this is all an imagining. What's momentarily confusing is whether or not Odo is Odo to the Thracs and the Ducat that we get in this scene, because they appear to be talking to Odo like he's him and not the Bajorin that he was cosplaying as earlier.

Right. He starts to fight the Cardassians and take their weapons. And again, we cut, and now everybody's back in their standard uniforms. And across the way, we see Odo in the same costume that we've seen Thraxen before looking on as these three bejurines get executed. There's some really great work being done here and it made me think a lot about how you do this. Edit wise, how you always know where you are geographically in this scene and how creepy it is when they do this jump.

Like, for all the action to be happening on the pedestrian overpass where they're at. And then to have that move to the other one, I think is so well done here. And I think, like I think you can screw it up pretty easily by breaking the spell, but it remains creepy throughout. It really does. This is when Cisco and the gang turn to Odo

and still in this kind of fantasy world he kind of confesses to the crime of having been the law man on Taraknor when a grave miscarriage of justice occurred. These three guys got executed for a crime, they definitely didn't commit. You know, the same style of bombing continued to take place after they were executed, and Oda has never been able to feel entirely clean since that happened. For good reason, it's really fucked up and sort of not in keeping with what you thought about him up until now. You like to imagine a law enforcement person that regrets the miscarriages of justice, you know?

Yeah. Like there's so many examples of like, my wife has done a little work with the Innocence Project and like they've gotten so many people off of Death Row or like exonerated of crimes that they didn't commit, that like the DA fought tooth and nail to keep them in jail and keep them on death row, not necessarily because anybody there believed that they committed

the crime, but just to like pride, you know? Yeah, that kind of scorekeeping is ridiculous. Like, everyone should rejoice when something like that is turned over. It's so fucked up that that's not how it is though. And so that's what breaks the spell and they all come out of the clip show devices. Morning, morning, morning,

Steve, sweet, morning, morning, morning, evening everybody, morning, stop, have a time. Like they're kind of looking at each other and looking at Odo like, yee. We just spent a very fucked up time inside your imagination, Odo. Not a good feeling, I think, for anyone. What Bashir tells Odo is that when their runabout ran into the plasma field, the injuries were such that his golden brain was reaching out to make a sort of connection like the

kind that is made in the golden link. He great-linked everybody. Yeah, and so like he telepathically linked with everyone else in the runabout and that linked them all together in this mind maze that they were in. Yeah, it would make a fascinating paper. I was very disappointed that this was all a dream,

that this all took place inside the Snowdome of Odo's imagination, right, but the way that the end of the episode is handled I think went a long way toward redeeming that I agree because There's then a confrontation between Odo and Major Kira. It's very intense because she feels utterly betrayed by what she's learned in Odo having filed a report about this thing that happened seven years ago. He was the Paragon of Justice and everybody believed that he served justice over any other

master. And it breaks that for her. He's no longer, he doesn't have God-like morality. He, you know, and there are no easy answers about that, you know? I'm guilty. What more does that just say? I mean, it feels very, it feels very contemporary, right? Like we all are like walking around in this society

that's like jailing infants on the border and like depriving immigrants of life-saving medical procedures and it's like fuck I like pay my taxes like I'm kind of complicit in this But I also don't feel complicit. I don't know how to like process the like duality of that. Now what? Now I'm just another imperfect solid. It makes it personal for her,

but also in a broad way, like she vouched for him to keep his job after the occupation was over, right? Like there was a lot of grumbling about Odo remaining as constable afterward. And it was only his reputation of having someone with an unflappable code that allowed him to stay in his position.

And I think in large degree because of Kira vouching for that. And Kira is the one person for a variety of reasons that a truth like this would hurt the most. Talk about things you don't want your crush to find out about you. I mean, she starts by saying that she's just blown away by it, but the reality is like her faith in him has been shattered. And that he doesn't know if it's even the only time that he's executed innocent people is a really dark button on this episode and you're

right, it totally redeems the the trip here in a pretty powerful way. Yeah. You really want to do this here. Now, okay, okay, let's do it. Did you like the whole episode though, Ben? I really did like the episode. I think that as a writer's room, you've got to know that it was all a dream story is a really dangerous kind of fire to play with.

Right. And, you know, like one thing about doing this podcast is like when you watch the episode, you have to throw yourself into watching the episode. You can't just like have it on and like, fuck around and enjoy it for, you know, the light television hang it is. Like, you have to really like focus.

Really? Well, I feel that way. I don't know you. Starting now. That is what I will do. It's my promise to you. I'll do better from now on, Ben. It's a bit of a curse because when a this might be, and it was all a dream episode starts.

Sure. Knowing the failures that this show has had in the past, you're very worried that they are going to bungle this because there are a lot of examples of times that they did bungle something. And they don't bungle this. They take this across the finish line beautifully. There are some problems with the episode, but they are not structural and they're not like the problems that come from stories retroactively not having had any stakes.

This had stakes. It just, they weren't the stakes that it was presenting to us as the, like the stakes weren't, these three people are going to get killed. The stakes were going to find out that Odo has a much more complicated relationship with his job than we previously understood. And this is his subconscious interrogating that. It feels a lot like hard time part two because this shatters everything we knew about Odo. And in the future, I think it's going to rebuild him

into whatever we know him as until the end of the series. Yeah. Whether or not this actually pays off the promise of what we're doing to this character, I mean, hard time certainly didn't with O'Brien, but I think you're safer making the, it was all a dream episode when it does have consequences. And it remains to be seen whether or not we get them here. But this ending is so strong that even if we never get anything else, Kira is seen with Odo is so

powerful that I think that that serves that purpose. Yeah, did you like the episode Adam? Yeah, I did. I think, I mean, it's hard trek and I think these are some of my favorite episodes when they really lean into someone's pathology this way. Especially when, you know, like, Odo's pathology up until this point has been a lie.

Yeah. You know, I would never think to compare this episode to the Rysa episode that we just saw, but like, what did we get in both? We got a deeply buried truth with a main character that ended up being the reason that a person acts the way they are. You know?

You know what I thought a lot about watching this episode was all of the criticisms that are slung at both the reboot Star Trek movies, but also discovery specifically. People say the people making this don't even like Star Trek as an insult to the content. And I kind of feel like this is an episode that makes the case that the people making Deep Space Nine don't even like Star Trek. Which is not a bad thing or a good thing, I think.

I think that they're like, it's a world with a set of rules that kind of constrain the kinds of stories you can tell in some interesting ways, but also open up some interesting kinds of stories that you wouldn't be able to tell on other shows. And like, anybody coming onto it as a writer that isn't just like a gushing fanboy is to certain extent like, you know, fighting against those constraints. Yeah. And I think that there are a lot of people like in the fan community that that hate that feeling, hate the feeling of this writer is fighting these constraints. Right. But in this episode I feel like it achieved something so cool.

I agree. I think there's room for that. Yeah I mean room for it certainly if it's done well, and I think it was done well here Well, do you want to see if we have any well-done priority one messages? Adam. Let's do Priority one message from star fleet coming in on secured channel Need a supplement star fleet coming in on secured channel. I need a supplement. A supplement? A supplement?

A supplement. Yes, extra. The interest alone could be enough to buy this ship. Adam we have a couple of priority one messages here. This one is of a personal nature. It's from Glees Monkey. It's to Ryan the barber. It goes like this. Happy birthday my friend. Lease Monkey, and it's to Ryan the Barber.

Goes like this. Happy birthday, my friend. I can't believe it's been 25 years of drunk charmotas. I love you as much as Riker love consent and warfates doors. You are my number one. Ah. I wanted this message to reach you for your birthday, but let's say this message fell through a space butthole

and is coming to you from the past to all the undiscovered countries to the future. About that. That sounded like a nice toast. Yeah, and indeed this was meant to be, I think it in July. Something. Oh boy. Yeah. So timing is not great. The meaning is there though. Even if the timing isn't. The meaning is there. That's what I would say. That's our bad and we're sorry.

Well maybe this will make it better. Ben, our second priority one message is from Julian and it is for Ben and Adam. The message goes like this. I already want message. Fuck. Adam the message goes like this Fuck Wow is Julian just saying fuck because Julian spent a hundred bucks if I Don't know anything could be Julian's doing things for the right reasons that's what I would say yeah, not in it to get anything out of it

Putting in the work, contributing. That's a Julian tell about. Yeah. So we really appreciate it Julian. And we really appreciate it. Glee's monkey. So if and if you would like to leave a priority one message, you can head over to maximumfund.org slash Jimbrotron,

where a personal message is 100 bucks and a commercial message is 200 bucks. And they go a long way to supporting the production of this program. And also, if you have one that is timely, try and get on it like nine months in advance just to be safe. Yeah. I think that's a good idea. Yeah. Hey Adam. What's that been? Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? DRAWN CHIMOTO!

I think I'm going back to back Bishir. Wow. And I think it is for many of the same reasons that I gave Bashir the Shimoda for the last episode. He is in this episode very briefly. Sort of bookend Bashir is what we get. And I think a stride either bookend, he's making jokes at inappropriate times. He's sort of being the bedrackled doctor about things and no one is really He's sort of being the bedrackled doctor about things and no one is really he's saying something that could be taken offense to given the circumstances, but no one is

is outwardly taking offense or calling him on his bullshit And I think that kind of subtlety is something that I try to deploy in my life every day Like what what can you sneak in? Into a pleasant conversation that that amuses you and only you, and that's what Bashir is doing. He's amusing himself conversationally, and that's why he's my drug, Shimoto. Nice. What about you, Ben? I'm going to give it to Odo. And I think the moment that made him the Shimoto for me was that conversation, or he's in the cell and thoraxes outside the cell. Like we've seen Odo have somebody locked up plenty of times,

maybe nobody better suited toward imagining how you can play into the psychology of your jailer than Odo, because he's been the jailer. Yeah. And yet, he has zero chill in that scene. Like, you've got to keep a cooler head. You've got to like get this person thinking, you are a rational person worth trusting and listening to.

Like, like, if you're just, if you start by yelling at your jailer, like, they're not going to hear you out on your complicated story. Yeah, and I was really expecting a hold me back moment there, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's not happening. Yeah, so for that reason, Odo is my drunk Samoa.

A Greatest Gen Live Show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well, it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023 and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information for the share your embarrassment tour.

I'm Jordan Morris and I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweirds. Pat Naswald. Could I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org.

Look, your podcast apps are already open. Just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Oh, rice. Hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out.

I hate having to stand in line. And boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks. But I'm hearing we need to get on this. We've got to get on the art. It is about terrain. It's about to destroy humanity.

Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. Oh, we're actually, we're podcasters. Yes, probably. We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Kerry? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came two by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Kerry, available on MaximumFun.org episode is it going to be?

The next episode of Deep Space Nine is season five, episode eight, the Ascent, stranded on a desolate planet. Long time adversaries, Odo and Quark must rely on each other to survive. Fun. Fun. A little picture of them wearing like

great big silver coats. Oh, yeah thumbnail there Interesting I wonder what conference they'll be coming back from You would think that Quark would put like a knit hat on to cover those ears. I bet they get real chilly Yeah, cold place. Yeah, I bet that too. That's got a hurt Yeah. Cold place. Yeah, I bet that too. That's got a hurt.

Chili ears hurt. I also wonder how we're going to watch this episode, Ben. I'll tell you how we're going to be watching this episode. Because I am going to goch.biz slash game where we keep the game of buttholes. The will of the prophets. Currently our runabout is on square 25. A little ahead we have a Venaked Now. Square. All right.

Which would require us to record an episode from the bathtub. Great. You're required to learn as you play. Roll. Alright buddy, I've got the dice in my hand. Roll them around. Toss them. Whoa! Adam. I rolled a three. Oh, number eight! Land it on the naked now. So you're gonna have to borrow your wife's laptop so that you can set it up in the bathroom.

I can't believe this. I really thought this was the one we would never hit. This is so dumb. The sound quality on the next episode is going to be extraordinarily dubious. What the fuck, dude? Really? Alright. Wow. Hey, you know who we don't shout out often enough? Philippe Sobriero, who did all the little illustrations for the game of buttholes. Oh yeah, they're great. Craig Anderson who did all the coding

and Andrew Wang Hoyer who put it all in beautiful L-cars formatting. Yeah, I gotta say I'm not upset with them. I am suspicious of the coding though, maybe, given the square we just landed on. Everybody that's looked at the GitHub has said that the code is clean. I didn't do anything. I rolled it, dude.

You made it to be in a bath of your own filth for 90 minutes. Just getting colder and colder. I'm going to be real clean when I get in that bath. Tell you what? What were we thinking with this square? I believe it was. We're not smart men, Adam. No, not at all. We're lashing out at our jailers. What we're doing, we're lashing out at our jailers and our jailers. They us. They us. The worst kind. Well,

That will be that. If you would like to continue to support this very stupid show. Yeah, if that serves as any kind of encouragement to support its ongoing production, please Help us buy warm bathwater. Yeah. By going to MaximumFund.org slash Donate. There's a non-zero chance that one of us is going to drop something electronic into the bathwater next episode. And that will be the last episode. And so, you know, our lives will be very sad, but maybe like a little bit of, you know, fine, ongoing financial room uneration.

We'll soften the blow of that a little bit. Hey, we're using bubbles, right? Oh, yeah, I gotta get some bubble bath. Yeah, I've gotta do that too. I don't wanna look at myself that long. You don't wanna see what's going on under seat underneath the water. My shrinking, pruning body over the course of 90 minutes No, thanks

It's gonna be awful So head to maximumfund.org slash donate Support the show you'll get all of our bonus content and all of the other bonus content as well Donate to the show will will send you one one of those pickling jars full of our bath water. I don't want to keep that promise. I don't either. I don't want those creeps having my bath water out there. You know what?

You support the show on a $200 a month level. I'll send you a glass of bath water. If you could prove that you actually did that, I'll send you a glass of bath water too. Yeah, there you go. It's a deal. Yeah, you creep out. Yeah, you dirty, dirty motherfuckers. That's gross as hell, but it's worth it.

It's $200 a month. And you know it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the price of being creeped out. I have a number. It's $200 per month. Yeah.

We should thank our buddy Adam Ragusio, who made all the custom theme music for this show. He, of course, basing his work off the work of Dark Materia, who made the Picard song, our original theme music that is Playing under my voice right now. It's great. I Drive around playing that song all the time and then when I drive near people I roll up my windows Just roll them up. They want them to hear it We should thank Bill Tilly who makes a hilarious trading cards about every episode. Catch, collect them all by going to the greatest Gen hashtag on Twitter, or just looking for his username, Bill Tilly 1973. Of course, Adams on Twitter at Cut for Time. I'm on there at Benjamin A.H.R.

Yeah! There are Facebook groups. There are Reddit subs. There are all kinds of places to talk about the show with other friends at the Soto, and we encourage you to do so and not be a dick. With that, we'll be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek Deep Space 9, and an episode of the greatest generation Deep Space 9 that slowly turns into a raisin. You know, they look really cold in the picture of the episode. We're going to be very cold by the time that bathwater cools off. I don't know how we're going to do this. This is going to be just a very uncomfortable episode.

That's what I'll say. Wow. Yeah. Great. Great! Comedy and culture. Artist-owned. Audience supported.