The Greatest Generation - Tomb of the Unknown Dick (DS9 S3E24)

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

When Kira is confronted with the prospect of the most awful person possible becoming the head of her planet’s government, that news comes with a mission from that same awful person. But when she tries to repo some farm equipment from her old terror cell, it’s more than just pizza ovens in peril. What character in Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure was most foundational to the host’s sexualities? Should Sisko have joined O’Brien for darts a long time ago? How long does a resistance refractory period last? It’s the episode that gets a John Doman rookie card in mint condition. Follow The Game of Buttholes: The Will of the Prophets! Support the production of The Greatest Generation.

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Starfleet. Engage! Welcome to the greatest generation, Deep Space 9. It's a Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have

a Star Trek podcast. I'm one of those embarrassed young men. My name is Ben Harrison. My name is Adam Prenica. My mother-in-law gave me a Hanukkah gift of metal straws. Oh! I gave my wife that gift is a stocking stuffer. So two holidays, same great gift.

Did she forget? No, I love these straws, but I realized that they're a little bit incompatible with what I use them for, which is often to have a nice, you know, something to wet my whistle while I'm casting pod. Sure. And they make little, you know, they're a no easy straw compared to the ones that are garbaging up the oceans. You know what you need to do is put a rubber sleeve on that metal straw. Yeah, I was thinking that like a little silicone bumper. Right. You need to, you need to sleeve for your straw, clearly.

You got to pack a vest for your Jimmy in the City of 6. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. My wife has not used hers yet. She got the, I don't know whether this was an error on my part, but I did not get her the shorty size. I got her like the taller Collins length straw. Yeah, that's what I've got as well. Right move for most situations, you think?

I would say that most straw situations you do want the taller. Yeah. There are a couple of scenarios where you want the shorter though. Like if you're making like a Spanish style gin and tonic and you serve it in like a wine glass, you want a short straw for that. If you're serving a drink and a coconut, you don't want a big long straw, unless you go hard in the other direction

and you go crazy long straw. Yeah, for effect. Yeah. That's what you want. Which I'm not opposed to. I'm all about a coconut with a big, crazy straw coming out of it. I feel like I'm not often drinking a big beverage,

like in a Collins or pint glass size vessel. I'm mostly drinking out of a highball size glass. I'm drinking something out of a Collins glass right now. And so are you, Adam, because I have just taken out my Quark's bar certificate and I am placing it on the table in between us and making significant eye contact Wow Yeah, you always drink alone

Sorry I ended up with chips Don't worry, or you'll drink it. Yeah. Yeah. There's no turning it down. Shit. I gotta go. Hey, wait to get this, this shoulder rub one on a, on a future episode. I've got a question for you now. Like, this isn't something you have to do, but do you have a recommended drink or cocktail that I should go and prepare for this one? I know it's kind of putting you on the spot. I don't know, why don't you drink some tequila soda or something, can you put that together? I can absolutely do that. I'm gonna do that right now, Ben.

I want you to start with a shot of tequila though, just to get the ball rolling. I like it. I like it. Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, and I'm back. Okay. I've got a shot of the best tequila I have in the house.

That's the aperitif so double and yeh-ho that, Oh yeah! You and I both love. That was given to us by our first ever sponsor, if I'm not mistaken. It's true, yeah, Northwest tequila fest. Back in the dark days before we had any income for this show.

Nostrovia bin. This is customary when drinking tequila. All right. Sort of a bigger shop than, I mean, I'm the master of the house. I guess I pour myself a big shop. Yeah. Enjoy.

This was a shop for a guest. And then I got a big pint glass sized tequila soda. This of course is greatest Gen Con tour fuel. This is an old favorite. Yeah, we typically take quite a bit of tequila soda out on stage with us. We try to provision ourselves for the hour and a half or whatever that we're going to be out there.

You learn a lot when you do a live show and maybe the biggest surprise lesson that we learned is how efficient we need to be with liquid consumption on stage. Because those first couple of shows where we were just drinking beers and having a good time, that is bad. You can't do that because you need to pee. Yeah. There's basically nothing worse than being like in the middle of Act 4 of a 5 Act film that we then have to do pee-wons and charmotas. Yeah.

A lot of business still to come and you're like, I desperately need to pee. I've never needed to pee worse in my entire life. It becomes all you can think about and that's not good when you're trying to also think about cracking up the other person. Yeah. Because cracking each other up is a gift we give each other, Adam. And speaking of gifts, why don't we check in with the old, Uxbridge Shimoda PO box? Captain, I'm sorry to disturb you. I'm receiving a code 47. Verify? check in with the old, Uxbridge Shimoda PO Box.

Oh, it is stuffed full. I just did a PO Box run and I think it's time to go through what we got. I think I'm going to start with the card. As I want to do, it's time to go through what we got. I think I'm gonna start with the card. As I, and want to do, it's from Joe from Melbourne, Florida. Hahahaha. Did they pronounce it that way in Florida, too? Fucking Reddit people are, are starting to give me shit over my pronunciation, specifically, of things. Oh, I, I, I caught a ration of shit for my pronunciation and think some things on friendly fire recently, so I can- Yeah, fucking break. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha I don't think, but I definitely used to like have that thought all the time. Like, come on, that's not how you say that.

And I am so much more forgiving now that I-I get shit for almost everything I say. I've never been moved to Wright, which is the difference. Then we've got a holiday card here with the dogo on the front. Oh! He's a-he's been playing the snow. Ha, love that. I think a dogo loves more than playing in the snow. My doggo loves the snow. Specifically, he just won't stop running.

Yeah, same. Message inside says, May the magic of Christmas be with you in every season. That's the typed part, but we have some handwritten text here. It says, Hey Ben and Adam Merry Christmas to the best podcasters. Oh! They're brought together the best friends I've ever known. Wow. I'm so glad I got to meet up with you twice this year and hang out with you.

And the bosom in Atlanta, not to mention seeing you in Denver with a lifelong friend and a very special young lady I met in the WHB, the warm honey bosom, that's what that means. You truly are a blessing with love, Joe. You know, no one has ever called us that. The warm honey bosom is really more dating surface than fan community at this point. I'm beginning to think that bosom isn't what they should be using as, as what is warm and honeyd given how everyone's pairing off in that group. Yeah.

Hey, agree. Just make sure you pack a vest for your Jimmy in the city of sex. We have, uh, we're, we're going up in size. We're going to Manila Avalope this time. It's from Eli and Allie from Minneapolis, one of our favorite places. Looks like we got, oh, we've got a mindful magazine with Nanavisator on the cover. I saw this at a grocery store last month. She is, this is one of those magazines that's about about being

present. Yeah. The penmanship on this letter is spectacular it almost looks like it's computer generated. And I mean that is a compliment. I wish I could write like this. Letter says please accept this gift as an apology for asking you to riff an episode of Babylon 5 at the Minneapolis live show. We have learned our lesson. Please come back on your tour next year. Oh man, after the warm welcome Minneapolis has given us the last two times we've been there. I don't think there's any way we skip. Yeah.

The bigger and better of the twin cities, shots fired! Yeah, we can't take a skybridge over Minneapolis into another part of the country. Get a letter feet hit the ground in Minneapolis. Letter continues also a question if you were forced to inhabit the mind and body of a DS9 character, being John Malkovich-style for the rest of your life, who would you pick? Oh man. Mind and body. Snap.

I mean, Cisco is tempting because he's got a great mind and an aspirational body. It's both good and aspirational. That aspirational. Yeah, I don't know, man. M-mourn probably. He seems like he has a pretty chill life. Answer is easy for me. I'm gonna say Odo.

Hahaha, because you wanna- you wanna test all the questions that we've asked. I think if you can live as long as I imagine a founder could live, I think you could fix your mind in that amount of time. I mean, he's not, he's not great mentally, but I think it's some work he could, he could, he could make some headway there. Plus, like, he's not taking any active measures on the mental health front, which I think is sad. He needs a subscription to Mindful Magazine. That's what he needs.

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty psyched to, to read this one. As's what he needs. Yeah, pretty psyched to read this one. As a daily meditator myself, maybe I'll get some more out of it. So, letter finishes up. Thank you. Hope you enjoy the Weird Magazine. From my local co-op, you guys are the best Allian Eli. Thanks, Allian Eli. Thank you.

Oh, Ben. Our next box comes from one of the best friends of DeSoto. Boxes from Bill Tilly. What? Bill Tilly in 1973. Bill Tilly from Star Trek Las Vegas. Bill Tilly from that show in Cleveland, the first time we met him. Bill Tilly should be running every panel at Star Trek Las Vegas. It doesn't get any better than Built Tilly, that's what I say.

He can split the job up with Bribelky. Alright, we got a box for you Ben and out of respect for you I won't open it, I'll stick it in the pile that I have to bring to you for our next live show. Looking forward to. Inside we've got a bunch of mega constructs action figures. We've got Captain Picard and Borg drone versions and these are like little, these are mini fig style. These are like that action figures that brand that is like interoperable with Legos but is not Legos. Right. What I like about these is that the accessories that come with them actually

Look like they gave a shit. So like the tricorder looks like a tricorder the phaser rifle looks like a phaser rifle It's not purple. Oh boy There are cards for your wife my wife and you and me So I'm gonna put the your wife card in Your pile I'm gonna reserve the one for my wife and I'm gonna open up the one for you and me. Cool. Cover says Merry Trexmas. The inside says Mary Trexmas boys. These are just a few things Feclar Claus left for you. He and I hope they both... You are not Feclar! Bill Tilly.

If you're bad for Christmas, does Feclar Claus just leave a stocking full of drool? I think so. He and I hope they bring honor to your holiday season. Thank you for all your hard work. And thanks for making me a part of the team and the credits to it. It means more than you know. Here's to a better 2019 for us all and the notes to the wives are sincere thank yous for me. They deserve it. Have a great holiday from Bill. Bill Tilly. Man. Guys the best. Just nobody better.

You should know Ben there is a netherbox we're going up in size. Also from Bill Tilly. What? Bill are cup-runneth over. Give me a break. I keep thinking Bill should start a Patreon for the cards. Because I mean, I think he puts in enough work to be earning some beer money, slash, go see us at all of our tour dates money, slash go to Star Trek Las Vegas money, that guy, that guy's the best, he works hard.

He's not as money as no good at our tour dates, Adam. I know, I know, but he's got to get there. This box is filled with classic Star Trek comics. Cool. Wow, like old enough to be 35 cents. Really cool. So we got a stack of Star Trek comics here. One of them.

Right, so if an average comic book has gone up like an order of magnitude since those came out. Yeah, there's money in here that's $4, so go figure. The $4 one has roe there and on the cover. So I imagine that's why. I see you're that drop after such a long time. In addition, somebody was suggesting that we should use the road drop on Kira. I don't need it. But I also feel like that's Rose Drop. Yeah, we're never gonna see

her again though. No. Ben, we have, because Bill is infinitely considerate to us both, we have duplicates of these gifts, so what we have is a Star Trek inner space excels your class Starship mini-place it, and it's the USS Hood. And there's a riker and Jordy minifig that goes inside. No way! Which is great! I love that we're like like... Can you wear Jackie and Laurie a picture of that to me? Yeah Thank you Bill Tilly one of the great one of the greats for all time I'll make you I'll make sure I'll make sure you get

You're due out of the bill Tilly boxes Wow Adam well that is a a great haul. I feel like that haul is like mid-period Twitter of everybody posting pictures of their Christmas haul. Right. Yeah, there was a time for that. That's an era that's come and gone, but that's kind of how that felt. Fun opening those presents with you. We're really lucky to have so many good friends of DeSoto. Yeah. And how are you doing with your beverage there?

I'm about halfway through. I mean, my hands were pretty busy with the opening and talking of the thing. I'm kind of like the dinner companion who's been talking the whole time and has not eaten his meal. Boy, that dinner companion drives me crazy. I am so preoccupied with what's going on with that dinner companion. Yeah, yeah, so I'm not quite ready for a refill, but rest assured. Because I'm just sitting there wolfing my food down and then thinking

about how long I'm going to have to sit there talking to these people while this person finishes their food You're sitting there like a miles Edward Hope Ryan with a napkin tucked in his in the tap of his shirt. Yep, that's you Speaking of miles Edward O'Brien had him do you want to get into today's episode? Gotta do that. It's season 3 episode 24 of Deep Space Nine. It's...Shakar. Do you realize how it... What about this series?

No, of course you're done. The Chief has got Commander Cisco down in the bar playing Darts with them. Got you this time, Chief. Kind of like this round robinign of the Darts game. It's not just a thing for O'Brien and Bashir. Anyone can play if you want to. Anybody that is willing to pierce more in with a needle can play this game. You know what's nice about it? Does it's not exclusive like the TNG poker game? You know, it's out in the open, anyone can play. There's no like class system about it.

Yeah, and the and the big boss gets involved. You know, he should have done this a long time ago. should have done this a long time ago. Well you take it all in for one last moment Oh I get the distinct feeling that we're all gonna die soon I'm really glad that the future has obliterated the plastic dart board with all the little mic row holes in it and the stupid plastic dart Oh, that's a plastic tip like that's often the stupid plastic dart with the plastic tip. Like, that's often the dart board you get at a bar. That's no fun. It's that a liability issue.

I think it's got to be. Yeah. I mean, you could tell that Quark has a pretty generous liability insurance policy, given what happened to Morn when they installed this thing. And the fact that it has stayed installed in the same spot since then. Yeah, I think they probably took the bar stools away from the rest of the show. The adjusters just don't get out to deep space nine that often. Give me a bottle episode with the space insurance adjuster.

I'd love that. This game looks like it's going Cisco's way, but then suddenly it's going O'Brien's way. And Cisco is saved by the bell. You get a priority message from the ProvischeGov, which is what everybody calls the people in charge of Bajor, who's pressed for time. Right. Right. If you just want to get it out, that's pressed for time, you know. Right. Right. If you just want to get it out, that's how you see it.

I thought that this was an interesting moment because I kind of had a fantasy that we would never get to the bottom of what that priority one message was. Like given the way the camera kind of like starts to follow Cisco out, but then lingers on Bashir. And I thought that that would be cool, like an interesting way to get Cisco out of a scene, but also like this show has demonstrated an interest in characters that are not privy to priority one messages and giving them, you know, full-fledged episodes. So it doesn't go that way in this one, but it kind of like headfakes to going that way.

And I thought that was a cool idea. And I hope they mess around with that idea more often. I was kind of winsing expecting a shop on the promenade to explode. It kind of feels like that's how that episode started too. It does, yeah. But now we get to major Kira's quarters where she is doing some spotlight meditation. And it's prayer interruptus as Cisco enters

to deliver some pretty weighty news. The first minister of the provisional government has died. I thought the scene was notable for a couple of reasons. One is that I think when you are speaking in Babel, it's gotta be much easier as an actor to have your eyes open and instead like pick up a card that's in your eye line. I think notably Nanavisa Tours doing this eyes closed, which would indicate if this is a real language and a real prayer, a phonetic memorization of it, which I think is fucking spectacular. And the second note I have about this scene is that her prayer lamp has dicks all over it.

Really? Yeah, the others like, I don't know how many sides it has. It's like, if it has eight sides, it has eight dicks on all of the flat sides of the prayer lamp. It sure does. I mean, it's like a simplification of that bejure and symbol, but it simplifies it into a dick.

Which in itself is a very simple thing. Yeah. The simplest, really. The scene where she's praying, I thought, I don't know if this is intentional or not, but it, to me, kind of picked up the visual language of that opening shot of Cisco concentrating on the dartboard. They're both kind of very close-up shots that orbit to some extent around the character's head. I like a lot of the camera work in this episode, and that goes for crazy wide shots and crazy close-ups like these.

This is the very first episode of Deep Space 9 directed by a man named Jonathan West, if that becomes notable down the road. He would go on to direct four more episodes of Deep Space 9 after this. Nice. I felt like the camera work was noteworthy good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the head of the major and provisional government has passed away and curious asked to contemplate something that I'm very,

you know, like sometimes like watching Star Trek, you kind of wish you lived in that world, you know? Like if I could project myself into being a crew member of the Enterprise D, like that's an adventure, I would aspire to go on. Yeah. But this is one of those scenes that brings home, like maybe you don't want to live in these characters shoes, because she's asked a condom plate, what if the leader of your government was the worst possible person? You know, and I would hate to. I mean, I couldn't even imagine what that would be like. Not even imagine. Like, if you could think of the worst person for a job like that, I mean, it's hard to even consider what life would be like in those circumstances.

Yeah, like how awful it would be on a daily basis to cope. Just have like the most dumbass person. Yeah. Like somebody who is like so nakedly bad and would probably put a lot of people in harm's way unduly just for their own self-interest. Yeah, so Cisco tells Kira that the weird, bejorin line of succession means that Kai-Win will be the new head of the provisional government should, should nothing else happen. And then we get a weird thing, Ben. We get soap opera strings to show up.

And this clanged off of my ears really hard, and then I was compelled to look it up. This is a brand new composer in this app that they're trying out. And not a good start, I thought. I mean, this start didn't work for me, I should say. Yeah, I like where it goes after the open. I agree.

It's initially just bad news, you know? And Kira is at a one-on-one with Odo, where Odo is going over some kind of pro forma update the brass on the security situation kind of thing. And Kira is just totally preoccupied with the political situation. You can't really focus on her work. I'm a little preoccupied with her hair, which seems to have changed in the couple of episodes that she hasn't really been in. Last few times, I feel like she looks great, but different is what I mean.

It's maybe a midpoint between the hair she initially had and the kind of much more close cut version she had that I liked and you didn't. Yeah. Yeah. What Odo is able to draw out of her is that Kira still blames win for Baryle's death, which is true. Yes. Kiwin was super fucked up and the circumstances leading up to that. And you should have hired a PR firm to get the word out about what she did in that circumstance. And like rightfully, she is afraid that once wind gets political power in addition to her vast religious power, she'll never let it go. If she's given power, she's never going to let it go. Odo says something here that basically reaches through the screen, grabs you by the lapels,

and makes you sit up super straight. His quote about freedom of choice being a great thing, but also having the unfortunate consequence of occasionally allowing people to make the wrong choice. Yeah, and that felt like a very precarred observation in an interesting way. I'm glad they gave that observation to Odo because it feels like for the last half dozen EPS, Odo has been making a statement about what he sees as the state of things and he gets cut down by a guy like Garyk, for example. Right.

He's often been wrong with his suppositions, but he is spot on here and I think that was a good thing to do for his character. Go to Kata. Go to Kata. So they have not spent a lot of time over the last several episodes making mention of how deeply Kira is still in the morning process. Yeah. So they have to return to the prayer candle scene just to like double down on that idea in this episode.

Right. She has returned to the eternal flame of Dix and Kai-Win pays her a surprise visit in her quarters. The tomb of the unknown dick. Yeah, Kira just can't get a prayer through without being interrupted. Shalaka. Yes. Hello, child.

We're made to understand that this is very late at night. Kira, get out of her work uniform and into some jammers. Or at least just take the top tunic off and have that cool tank top with the triangle pattern on it. I wish she had some of that wrath of Con style uniform design where she could at least like Unbutton the top part and sort of flap it over. Yeah, get that pizza flap Oh boy the moment when win enters and Kira attempts to be Just baseline kind to her and then they they short in very short order getting to the contest of who knew barile better

It they are just like Taking the bark off of each other Back and forth. It is a really like they're two Super talented actors and yeah, it's a very subdued scene But but they really shred each other and and it's all very like understated and kind of like backhanded compliments and stuff. It's really fun. I loved him as did I.

I said why you never mentioned Borrell's name when you talk about your piece treaty with Cardassia. As I recall, he's the one who negotiated it. The restraint that the Kira character shows for the win character, like you can see her struggle with. There's like the delivery of a line that is maybe a half a second late because there's some self-sensoring happening in the moment. Yeah. That I think is so next level. It is, it's really good.

Yeah. And what comes out in this conversation is that What comes out in this conversation is that win is actually going to send Kira on a mission and I guess She's now like the commander in chief of the pejoran militia, so she can do this and she the issue is that Kira's old Commander in the resistance

Shakar has has taken possession of some farm equipment that Ki-Win really wants to deploy to a different province than the province they're currently in for cash crop reasons. And I thought that like the weirdest thing about the way this is unveiled for Kira is that that Kaiwen introduces him as a man you know very well a man named Chikar. That is such a weird way of talking. I mean, if there be like me saying Adam, I had a hamburger with a man very recently a man you know who co-host a war movie podcast with you a man Name John Roderick

Yeah, it feels like it feels like this is a scene that could use a light re-write in that way because this is a scene that is Speaking to the viewer instead of character to character. Yeah, and it's a way it forces Words into the mouth of wind that she would never say in that way. And, you know, Luis Fletcher is a great actor and can pull it off, but it did bump me a little bit. Yeah, the idea is that post-occupation, Beijor was kind of left in ruins, and that's the part that we know, the part that we know a little bit less about is that like the fertile areas of Bejor were in many instances poisoned, and so it just pulled up. Yeah, there was a gasch. Sherman's March style Cardassian project to ruin the arable land on Bejor before they left. So this farm equipment are soil reclinators that can put things right and make the lands able to be cultivated again.

Should cars people have these reclinators in Dacur? And where Kiwin wants them is Recanta because of these cash crops that you mentioned? Yeah, so basically, here's mission is go talk some sense into this guy because, I mean, the way when Painsit is that he's basically stolen them from the government. Right. It makes Shikar seem like a real asshole and that just doesn't fit with Kira's picture

of him as a person, you know, she talks about how he's one of the most selfless people there is. So Kira beams down to the Bishore and Dust Bowl and there's a jazz horse style cabin there with a door that it looks like you can open and that's good. Yeah, you don't just slam your shoulder against it. You can try throwing dynamite at it and it won't open for some reason, that's weird. You can try throwing dynamite at it and it won't open for some reason. That's weird. It seems like it would. This is the beginning of an argument against this episode that I'm going to describe as

the Ripley problem. Because the legend of Kira up until now has painted her as kind of heroic Ellen Ripley figure. And she beams down there and she finds her old buddy, Shikar. And Shikar, we're led to believe, is a hero of the occupation. He's a hero of the resistance. But what we see in Shikar is a really beautiful looking man who doesn't look like a farmer or a hero. Like, my problem with him is that he's too good looking for his legend. He kind of looks like Chris Brenner.

That Chris Brenner. Farmer edition. Right. Yeah. Shikar, though, also likes her old hair hair better too, which I think is hilarious that they keep calling that back like like Resistance era Kira evidently just had fucking great hair that everyone loved. I mean we know that we've seen it Everyone's so disappointed in Kira's hair right now Kind of messed up before we get too too far from what Shakar looks like, I just popped into my head as you were

saying that, you know, in spoiler alert, but John Domen is a character in this episode. Does it make more sense to switch who these two actors are playing? I felt exactly the same way, honestly. I feel like Dolman's the more farmer-looking guy. And also the more grizzled veteran looking guy. Yeah, agreed. Was this the playset that they used in the episode where Kira had to go talk some Bajorans off of their land in the pizza oven?

I was definitely looking for a Bajoran pizza oven in the six-terrier shot. Yeah. It's kind of a similar premise too, right? Yeah. Like go do a thing that is bad for the people that you love because now you have a hard job in the military where you don't always get to choose what your mission is. Right. The aliens and Ellen Ripley comparison

is one of the things I had in mind, but another thing I couldn't help thinking of at this moment and time was a first blood way of thinking. Like this whole Kira returning home, looking for an old friend situation. Uh-huh. this whole Kira returning home looking for an old friend situation. Uh huh. And I wished, honely, it edged more in that direction than the direction it ended up going.

Yeah. There's the joy of reunification with these old people, but there isn't, there isn't the pain. Like the, the vein of hurt that people who have fought a war together. I feel like would credibly feel at this moment. It's too happy. I agree. And I think that I kind of think it's the guy that plays Furel.

And I'm not talking about a member of the Neptune's. I'm talking about a Bajorin guy with only one arm. Yeah. I just don't think he brings any pathos to the role. I really like him. If you're casting to be liked, I feel like this episode is well cast, as well cast as any other app. But you're right.

I want to feel the pain a little bit more, and I'm not getting it here. I'm not getting it from him specifically. I do feel like I get it from Lupaza played by Diane Salinger from Peewee's big adventure. I know you're right, but but what? Everyone I know has a big boss. She played Simone, Adam. I know. I Recognized her for her voice and then Then I have to admit I recognized her for her boobs. Yeah like Diane Salinger like well how old were you the first time

you watched P.W.s Big Adventure? I can't remember a time when I hadn't seen P.W.s Big Adventure so. This is going to, there's a way to put this that doesn't make me look like an asshole and I'm gonna try to put it that way. Ha ha ha. And I think everybody has formed their opinion one way or the other on whether they think you're an asshole. But like I was at a very impressionable age

when I watched Peewee's big adventure and I feel like the moment that I saw the character of Simone, and I fell in love with her rightfully, because she is a great character, and kind of the emotional core of Peewee's Big Adventure. I feel like hers were foundational boobs for me. Wow. I saw them, and I saw her, and I,

like her entire character, both physically and mentally, had such an impression on me that I was like, yes, this is right, this is what I'm attracted to. Man, I personally have had a lot of struggle in my life because the female character that I really imprinted on sexually was large-march. Oh, Ben, the character you imprinted on was not large-march. It was her ghost. I'm sorry to tell you that, Ben. I'm not sure if you knew. Maybe that's what's, maybe that's a holding me up, is that... I'm only sexually attracted to people from the other side. You're a paranormal sexual? Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Ha ha ha. We've made a lot of progress here. To be quite honest about it, I've been a pair of fucking a pair. Mr. Bucket, I have to refer to my instinct. Oh, I don't use the bucket anymore. Adam, the deep B story of this episode is that O'Brien, having beaten Cisco in a forfeit is on a hot streak

playing Darts. He can't lose. I don't feel like you get hot on the basis of someone else forfeiting by the way. That is such a great point. And it's something I only thought of like as we were sitting down to record this. Quark does make the case that he's won 46th Street games.

So like if Cisco forfeited here, then I mean maybe a dozen, there were a dozen other forfeits. Yeah, I guess that does make me wonder was Cisco in the midst of the streak? Yeah, I don't know. Hey, Ben, I'm ready for a refill, but let's finish up the scene and then I'll go get one. Okay, I don't want you to stop drinking.

It's important to me that you continue. This being your Quark's bar episode. Right. Quark will not let an opportunity like this go by. He starts announcing to the whole bar that O'Brien's streak is something that he is taking bets on. Thank you all for your gaming business.

How does it work? I mean, I know that like Floyd Mayweather gets a huge pile of money every time he does a boxing match. That's from the betting, right? Or is that just from selling the rights to er it? As a degenerate gambler, here is what I will tell you. The gambling logic of the scenes with O'Brien does not make a ton of sense because they don't give any backstory

to what Quark may be making on the television rights to it, for example, what we know is that the odds on O'Brien are like, they rise to 15 to one, which is like, whatever, what a casino wants to do is to get even action on both sides. Like, that's what they want. And so by quark making a big deal about O'Brien being a 15 to one favorite,

it doesn't matter. All it does is tell the viewer that O'Brien being a 15-to-1 favorite? It doesn't matter. Like all it does is tell the viewer that O'Brien is a heavy favorite. It does not tell the viewer what quark stands to make outside of food and beverage sales on attendance. And I feel like there's two lines missing from these scenes that would cinch that up. I mean, it's crazy to think of. I would never imagine that somebody would be bad enough at business to lose money running a gambling operation.

Like, that seems really far-fetched. Like, it strains credulity. Right. But yeah, like so, yeah, so what you're saying essentially is that Cork is making a percentage on every bet placed no matter which side it's on and Also should be making money on on all the all the ancillary purchases Surrounding if what he's doing is only making a profit on a bet that pays if you bet on O'Brien And it's and you bet a hundred dollars and

you get ninety dollars back if you win. Like that's how Vegas makes money on sports betting. Yeah. That's how they encourage people to bet on on underdogs, for example, or to parlay bets together in order to win. But yeah, I don't see a clear path on how quark is making a bundle on this. It doesn't make sense and it's not, it doesn't matter that much because this scene happens like two more times. Yeah.

The scene of me refilling my cocktail might also happen two more times. I'm going to go to the first one right now. I'm gonna go to the first one right now. Duh-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu-lu- shares a story from being interrogated wherein he sort of came to grips with the idea that he was like many times you will see this in a war film or another depiction of heroism. A person makes a bargain. Like he bargains with his creator about like if you just get me out of this shit I'll do anything. I'll give my life for these other people if you spare theirs. And what he describes as a situation where he's willing'll give my life for these other people if you spare theirs. And what he describes is a situation where he's willing to give his life, but instead all he loses is his arm and the rest of them were saved. It cost me an arm. I felt that the profits were generous.

And they felt like he shouldn't get his arm replaced, which is available from a medical science standpoint, because that would be sort of a violation of the arrangement he made with the profits. They do that thing where a kyrus like, so why didn't you go ahead and like get the federation issued multi-arm tool that they install for people who are amputees? Right. You barely notice Farrell doesn't have that arm. And I don't know if it's an issue with costumeing or framing, but I feel like they should have made that more of a foreground thing than how it is.

Is the actor who plays him actually armless? I should have looked this up and I didn't. Because I think that the reason, like my, my guess in watching this was that the reason he was being framed that way was that he is not in fact. Yeah, he's just tied up. Missing an arm and they didn't you know it does he's he's a A fairly barrel-chested man. So there's not like a bunch of Space under his shirt to hide the the tied down arm, but I don't know. I agree that it was weird Yeah, like I kind of wish that there was an appliance on his arm, just to serve as a reminder of his

time in war that was a little bit more stark. No, I agree. For real, Nupasa, do play that game of whose land is more toxic, and that's kind of fun. Yeah, a toxicity measuring contest. Yeah, they're doing some dozens here. Like, Lupaza, you're land is so toxic. It's instead of soil, it's got pastus us. Yeah, the most toxic substance, Adam.

I'm barely holding it together right now. Are you pretty drunk? Yeah, I'm feeling great. That's good. I think Ticurus' credit, she is arguing the case for what Kai win asked her to do, which is basically say like, I know it sucks here and like the time will come that you guys get the thing that you need, but for like a greater good standpoint, a needs of the many standpoint, maybe the soil reccomiters should go to the other province for now so that we can get

our interstellar economy back going. And a couple of interesting things are revealed about this deal. Like one of them that Shikar explains there is that they have been in the queue for this equipment for a long time. It's like government equipment that's been deployed to a bunch of different parts of the planet to fix their soil. They were supposed to be next. They're supposed to have the gear for the next year and suddenly the government just kind of reneged on its promise. This is a moment in the episode that the logic of it kind of fell apart for me because if Kira has Cisco's ear and Cisco has the ear of Starfleet, like I understand that Beijor isn't a Federation member, but like there was

that episode in TNG where they dropped a couple of replicators off on a planet just to be nice, just to be good. I think it was Bajorans that they gave those to, right? Yeah, and I don't understand why this technology isn't so reproducible that they can't make them in a quantity that actually helps here. There needed to be some language about what it was that made this a very limited resource, these soil recommaters. The technology, though, of their scarcity serves the story in such a way that it makes you side with Shikar and the rebels. And you need to do that as a viewer.

Yeah. And it is super unreasonable the way they've been asked to just give these back up. Like promises were made and like nothing is being done to mitigate the damage of those promises being changed up all of the sudden. Shikar is really convincing here with his position and I think it presents a really good like micro versus macro problem. Kira is like, look, if we can big picture this and get these reclamators in a situation

where the economy of our entire planet can change based on its ability to trade with other partners. Like it changes the game in terms of our membership in the federation. And Shikhar looks out on his dust bowl and he's like, I don't give a shit. Like I want to grow carrots. Yeah. Like give me the chance to grow carrots. And she's like, Shikhar, I don't want to shoot your pizza oven, but I'm willing to do it.

I shot pizza ovens before. I'll do it again. There's also another thing that happens through the Disuper interesting is that Kira convinces she car just to talk to Chiwin. Yeah. And what they don't, what they don't emphasize here is that

Kira knows that Chiwin is a terrible negotiator. And I knew as a viewer that like, oh, this could be a great setup. Like you get Shikar and win in a room. Like Shikar's gonna out negotiate her. And this is gonna be a win for Shikar. But it's not mentioned and it's not even alluded to. Right.

I will give this moment credit, though, just for being like more true to life than TV generally is. I feel like if the person disagrees in real life, the next step is like can we like get you two together and work to a compromise? But in television it's almost always like this would be the precipitating moment for a turning into like the set tripping crazy running around with guns

that it turns into. But instead there's like an appeal to diplomacy in this moment, which I did like. And Shakara greets to it, and then after agreeing to it, like he tells her he misses her, and then gives her that I miss you hug, that lingers a little too long, and then a little bit of a stare down and then a look away. I think a stare down on a look away means something Ben. Yeah that was not lost on me. Yeah. I think Baryle's death is still like as long as Kira is still praying to the penis flame. I think there's no chance

for her to move on. Yeah I mean I think that that's something that a lot of us probably need to stop doing I'm not a car, I'm not a car, I'm not a car, I'm not a car, I'm not a car. So Kira has got to go back to the, to the Bajoran government building and talk to Kayawin and she's like, look, here's the deal. You got to talk to the Shikar guy. Shikar wants to keep the reclumandist for six months, I think that's reasonable. They, like, give him a chance to fix their soil. Damn you. Like, just give him a chance.

And Kai-Win is playing hardball. She was expecting Kira to make with the reclamators, and she hasn't done that. It's been a huge failure. And Kira is pushing for a compromise as even more. It gives Kai-Win even more of a stink face. Kai-Win just kind of kicks her off of Beijorne back to Deep Space 9 in a tombstone-esque kind of, oh, Major Kira, I didn't notice you were still there kind of way. Which is such a

fucking dick power move. It really was. I mean, I think that her character, Kiwin's character, so well written though, like that is such a type. It's well cast too, like she is hand in glove with that character in a really great way. Like the person who just like unprincipled doesn't believe in compromise being presented that as like a, hey, I didn't do what you asked, but this was, so this was the best I can do in lieu of that. Yeah. It's like no better than nothing for Kiwin.

You've done enough already and please give my best regards to Commander Sisko. It's hard not to notice Kiwin's executive desk set though which looks like a couple of Tesla coils. Yeah, she has like an e-meter on her desk is she a Bajorin holy figure or a Scientology holy figure. I don't know but I heard the brunch there is great. Ha ha ha ha ha. Not a Keish, right?

Ha ha ha ha. So they're famous for. Yeah. So Kira shares the bad news with Shikar. And Shikar is a little bit pissed that Kira's been rebuffed in this way, but the pissed offness doesn't last very long because the militia comes to arrest Shikar.

Are you Shikar? Yes. You're under arrest. The militia enters and Kira and Shikar just fucking clobber them. It's great. It's one of those things where the upper right hand part of the screen turns into a wanted poster and it's all red.

And then they have to go hide for a while while the bar kind of drops back down to gray. Yeah. Oh. She cars like you don't want to follow me babe. This is not your fight but Kira is like emboldened by Shikar's whole deal. Like, I feel like Kira, there's like a sense memory to the resistance that she finds very enticing. Like, she's ready to resist again.

Yeah, and so like, they all meet up in the caves, for real, and Lupazar are there. They have a cache of weapons in the Star Trek caves that is like, it's like 40 pelican cases of guns. That's a general idea. I can as he spent 10 years searching for us in these mountains. So Greece will probably give up in 10 days.

I'm not so sure about that. So this was so interesting, like the idea that the war has been over for such a long time now, and they are still in full Doomsday prepper dig in on Ewo Gima mode with the way they run shit. There's a resistance refractory period here and they're still in it. Yeah, the half life is a lot longer than it takes to establish a peace treaty with

Cardassia. Yeah. But there's like basically a hard target search going on for them in the resistance And this is such a terrible move for Kai win like these people have just resisted like how hard do you think it would be for them to resist again? Yeah, their knowledge of resistance is very is is is very highly It's it's so fresh that Shakira's like look we're gonna retreat up to the stronghold in the hills. You remember the stronghold from like two weeks ago?

And the other stronghold? Like the food hasn't even molded up there. Like we're ready to go. Yeah, our bug out bags supply, like five year old supply of water is still drinkable. They fucking want this. Yeah, it's drawing first blood with John Rambo, right? like five year old supply of water is still drinkable. They fucking want this. Yeah. It's drawing first blood with John Rambo, right?

Like, it just kind of like, it just kind of activates the nature that is within them. This is where some element to the score, I felt like we're lacking. Because if you were to first blood this up a little bit, I think it would really help. Wow, I love that idea. You know? The sound of like DS9 first blood soundtrack.

Like you get Kira out of her uniform and into like a poncho. You rough up Shakara a little bit. Kira is running topless through the woods. It finds an oil cloth at an old mine site. That's a no-brainer. It wraps it around herself like Rambo. That's what I'm saying, I think. You just wanted me to picture Kira topless, Adam.

There are a few punch ups you can do on this episode to kind of dirty it up, and I don't mean to talk like no to you. I know, but you can't show boobs on TV like that. Only HBO, Adam. I'm talking about actual dirt, not sexual dirt. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not saying that it's right, but I'm saying that our society treats a man with a shirt off differently from a woman with her shirt off. Right. Obviously.

I say free the nipple at him. I don't know if this was getting too intense for you, we cut back to Deep Space 9 where O'Brien is playing Darts against a Vulcan. Yeah, the yackety sexite sex of B stories is back. Oh, Brian is so confident in the scene that I felt like he was sandbagging. Like, like, Oh, Brian does the whole shoulder pops out while he grabs for a drink from Quark

and I was like, oh, he's fucking with Quark. Like, this is a con. There's this moment and another moment we'll talk about later, but I kept thinking that. Like I kept thinking that O'Brien was running a hustle essentially. I want to ask you directly, do you think this means a teleplay success or a failure? If you and I both jump to the same conclusion so quickly and it was not true. I mean, I think that there are times

where you jump to a conclusion and then the show defies that and it is a success. It's it's it's slight of hand when it's successful. Like it's leading you to believe one thing is going on and then when when the reveal happens, it makes you understand things on a whole new level. This is unsatisfying though. That the reality is that he was reaching for a beer

and popped his shoulder out of socket. Not realistic, not satisfying, not good. And played for not really happening. Like it makes it seem like a Brian and Bashir are in kuhuts to to build quark out of a bunch of money. And everything about the way it's being like I almost wonder if they like had that storyline and decided to reshoot it for some reason. It feels like it was cut out for time. It is shocking to me that that wasn't the truth of the story.

I can't imagine that it wasn't initially in a version of the script or even something that they shot but had to cut for time. Yeah. It blew me away that that wasn't the truth at the moment. I'm right there with you. So Brian reaches back for a cup of beer in a 1990s commuter mug of commuter coffee mug and tear something in his shoulder and has to be escorted out of there by Dr. Bashir

for like immediate emergency shoulder surgery. Here's the thing about the gambling logic of this episode that doesn't hold together is quirk plays this as a huge loss for him, but it shouldn't be. It's he should not give a shit about. Like if anything, O'Brien losing as 15 to one is actually like great because as such a heavy favorite, he should have been bet more than the Vulcan right like his liability Like that's what the ratio is about right there should be two people in the bar the bet 15 to one on the Vulcan

Like it shouldn't it shouldn't make a difference to quark right they need a Gambling ombudsman on this show and I should be that person Yeah, if they ever have any fernkeys on Discovery, at the the reddish room should know who to call. I'm gonna be so happy when the first fernkey shows up on disco. Big fan. Man, what do you think they'll do with the loaf? What do you think they're gonna do with the whips?

Double whips Yeah Everything's double Yeah, this Vulcan is played by Sherman Howard bin which you might remember from the suddenly human TNG app who had that human son Jo-no who did that annoying scream when he was Picard's roommate. You remember that guy? Wait a second. This is another example of Star Trek recasting people.

Uh, yeah, the Vulcan was the dad. He was not the son. Right. And Sherman Howard could also have been in the beach. He should be the car. He should be, yeah, like he, he has the thing that John Domen has that should have been what she car has They did a grizzled casting call and they cast all the grizzled guys on these other bit parts instead of for Shecar they must have had like a three-card Monti with these three actors and the cards just landed on the wrong spots

Chris Christophers into place play, Shikar. That's what you need. And for some reason, you cast this blow-dry guy as Shikar. Who's great? It's not his fault. He's good looking. But give me a break. He doesn't have farmer hands.

Do you remember the character, Lee Nallis, who Kira liberated from that camp and then like kind of you know he was like supposed to be a war hero but it was a little bit more complicated. How could I forget? That's that's who Shakar is cast to be right he's like a reboot of that guy. I feel like they didn't think Lee Nalus as a thing worked. Yeah. At the time when they killed him off. And so I'm shocked that they would recast a lean-alice type person to be this character. Yeah, like all of the heroes of the resistance

roughly fit, like they would all get pulled over by the cops if a description of them went out, right? Yeah. You really want to do this here. Now, okay, okay, let's do it, do it. Back on Beijor, Kai Wynne and Cisco discussed the situation. Like Kai Wynne has sort of pulled him in for a meeting. A McLaughlin group, if you will.

She's done with Kira, so now she has to deal with Cisco. And Wynne has had to suspend the government in some areas of Beijorne and declare martial law and some provinces because Shikar's actions have been so inspiring like they've emboldened sympathy to the resistance of militias. What I need is your help. What kind of help? And Cisco plays this great. Cisco's like, so looks like you're having a little bit of a problem. W slash R slash T ruling the planet. Looks like you have a little bit of a problem. W slash R slash T ruling the planet. What's up with martial law?

Like a seems like a fairly insane overreaction to some tractors being missing or whatever. And guys like look, I've got a great deal to propose to you. How about I withdraw the Malaysia and instead you use Federation Security to bring Shukar to justice. And Cisco's like, the fuck? Like I will ever do that. Like she bitches this to him as this will help our two societies grow closer together. Like, Cisco's like, I wouldn't give you new reclamators. What makes you think that I would give you

federation security? You should have asked me for the reclamators. Come on. The fact that she doesn't, like that's where it should be in the script, right? She should say, Exactly. And then there should be a reason why

they can't be provided. Yeah. That's where it should happen. And we get out of it. Yeah, yeah, that's where it works. And instead that gaping platole got left in the script. And it's such, it would have been so great to see Cisco throw that back in her face like that.

But instead, it's a very natural, very reasoned, like of course I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. Response it's a very natural, very reasoned, of course, I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Response from Cisco. Right. And this is kind of where, like, I feel like every single episode with this character, and at she, she shows her true stripes at some point, and misses that moment in this episode where she uses a don't you see pivot into saying this is like our society needs to be ordered and structured and follow the rules and rule of law, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. She just reveals herself to be a total authoritarian.

Yeah, and the visual language of this shot underscores that the hero shot her from below. She's super pissed and she threatens to withdraw from federation membership. Yes. She looks like this. This goes going to be heard about that. Like, okay, sure. Like withdraw from membership. That is an insane thing to do right now.

Yeah, and like to talk even more about the visual language, like they've been at her desk, and in this moment she walks over to like the altar in the religious portion of her office, and stand between like candles and religious symbols, and it's a very directory shot. It's basically saying that like the dogma of this is couched in the dogma of religion. And like, that is what is bad about it. The thing that took me out of the episode

is the moment the Kiwin took off her Popeye and then touched your hands to both Tesla coils and then her hair shot out with like that big static hair look. I mean, it's a power move in some circumstances, but in this one, I thought it was just cartoonish. Yeah, crazy. The step with the resistance cell has gotten very exciting. Like, this is two weeks into this conflict, and we're seeing like major movements of of guerrilla troops running around on the scre-cited mountains of Bejor.

And there's some really flashy, like long-ass dolly shots of them running through this terrain. Much more dynamic and expensive camera work than we ever get in Star Trek. The feeling here is sport, and that's one of the reasons this episode fails. Like, their spirits are good,

they're sort of like, their jocularity in their escape and their struggle, is a thing that grounds me in the feeling that the resistance is gonna be okay, instead of they're being outnumbered by the militia, and the darkness of fighting your own people, like that reveals itself later, but that should be the underpinning to all of this. Like, can they keep up the pace?

Can they, like, is this a survivable situation with older people? It never feels dangerous. Just a lip service is paid to that, that it's clear that they were aware of those as being interesting elements of this story. You know, like occasionally the character will be like massaging his ankle or whatever.

They're I am getting older, but these mountains are getting higher. And they talk about, oh, this is harder than the old days. And you know, I think it's probably just that like they don't let anybody get killed or anything, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like they should be losing their friends left and right and being like really confronted with whether this plan

actually has any hope of working. I think they saved the danger of this for too late. Yeah. Because when the militia walks into the canyon and the resistance fighters have the high ground, there's that moment when Kira recognizes a guy and that's the John Domean character from the wire. And from here, the view is two of my detectives fucking the dog. That's the moment that the realization hits that they're fighting people they know.

And there's some resistance to the idea of like, are they really gonna do this? Their fingers are on the trigger, they're ready to shoot some guys in the head, and they get right up to the point where they're going to do it, and then they can't. Like, Kirin and Shikar both share this moment simultaneously. So Shikar reveals himself and walks down. And this is a great scene.

This is maybe the best scene in the episode. Like, Colonel Linaris is the John Domen character, and they have that great moment of like talking shop as two warriors. Yeah. Which I love. I wanted to thank you for a long time. I had a brother at Galletep when you liberated the camp.

Like they're both sharing experiences from the resistance. And they're both like doing the kind of like respect, necks of like, like saying a thing that they heard about that the other one did. Yeah. So it's it's fraught, but it's not painful the way I was hoping it would be. Right. And like the tension is really well done here, I think. Like the idea that like a guy gets an itchy trigger finger and, you know, it looks like it's just going to turn into like a blood bath at one point before everybody can get their, your, their cooler heads on.

As much as I love Nanna Visator in this scene and the guy who plays Shikar, it's John Dohmins time to shine here. He is bringing that wire energy to it. That is so fucking intense. He is great. He is so good. And I mean, like he has this level of authority. And I mean, he uses this at the wire

like that feeling of like, I'm so far above you as a superior that it's like almost a joke that I'm even talking to you. But that's such a difference. Like, he's, I know what you mean. Like, he's condescending in the wire without being condescending. Like, it's such a power move to not be a dick

about the power imbalance that you have while still wielding it and That he does a little bit in the wire, but what he does in this episode is not dickish Yeah, it's a guy knowing where what his status is Adam. I looked I was looking at John Doming's IMTP and he has looking at John Doming's IMTP. And he has a hundred, perfectly 100 acting credits on his IMTP as of this recording. Wow. This is his fifth.

What? Yeah. He did like, We did buy a low on John Doming, deep space nine, like good job, good casting. The thing he did right before this in 95 was die hard with avenge and then he's just got like eight to 20 credits every year after that.

Fuck, he's really great. He is just so great. If you're a casting director and you see this scene, you fucking sit up in your chair, right? Yeah, it feels like he's acting in a different television show. He's that good. And like when, you know, when he's like disciplining the guy that licks the shot in the atmosphere.

Lieutenant, take this man's weapon and get him off the perimeter. Holy shit, like Picard is the only other person in all of Star Trek that has ever big dogged that hard. Gene Hackman isn't a working actor anymore, but if what I want is a Gene Hackman type, I think I want John Domen for that heart. Jean Hackman isn't a working actor anymore, but if what I want is a Jean Hackman type, I think I want John Domen for that role. Yeah, he's so great. He is Hackman-esque, and his ability to do this, he's so great.

That changing light at the bottom of the canyon, I think, is really notable for people like you and me because they start that scene in midday. Like it's fairly clear that the light on the canyon is midday. They're using a scrim for the conversation at the bottom to knock down the light. But the light is like pretty hard on the background. So they change the perspective as the conversation goes on to a more flat look, like flat as and they bring the camera down so that you're shooting in profile a little bit more. And what happens here is that the light on the hills darker because it's not midday

anymore. And they've started to use non-practical light. What happens here is that the light on the hills darker because it's not midday anymore and they've started to use non-practical light. Like they've taken the scrim away and they're lighting the actors. And that changes the feeling of the scene as the emotions of the scene change. Like I don't think this is an intentional move based on the heightened to lower demotions of the scene. I think this is a production thing that happened during their shooting day. Yeah.

But it's noticeable in a way that I think people should realize. I think that the thing to watch for is like, you know, Jen Domen doesn't have the thickest head of hair and you watch the spot of bright light on his shiny forehead go away over the course of the scene. Yeah. And the lighting gets much flatter and evener.

Right. I agree with you that they probably just tried it in this order because it's the order that the scene goes in and yeah, you're just trying to make your day and the light changed over the course of that. But also like good planning to shoot it at that part of the day, because that light change is very appropriate for the scene.

And like you know, like when you go into an outdoor shoot like this, your DP has a sun chart and knows what the light is gonna be doing over the course of the day and is planned for it. So, you know, it's for two of us that as the feeling changes, the lighting changes. Right, it's for two of us, but it's all it also bespeaks like good planning. Right, exactly. Yeah. The outcome of this scene is kind of only implied, and it is only implied because we kind of cut away

And it is only implied because we kind of cut away because the agreement that is implied to have been met is that he agrees that The orders he was sent out on to like capture or kill them are Bad and that he'd actually rather support Shakaar For a for being in charge of the government than the then the Kai for being in charge of the government than the than the guy. Right. They show up at her office, the three of them, and she initially thinks that Shakar and Kier are there as prisoners.

I see you brought me a pair of gifts. And John Domenna's like, no, no, no, like let me disabuse you of that immediately. They are not my prisoners. I am actually on their team now. Shakar is not there as a prisoner. He's there as a candidate because guess what, Ben? Shikar is running for First Minister.

He's running. He's running. Shikar published a book about his childhood and how it formed his political belief system. I get to tell you like Colonel Linaris, like what he believes, alfalo. Like his endorsement of Shikar here means a lot to me as a viewer. Yeah, he says that he and all the other like military commanders are on, are lining up to join the Shikar party. And yeah, this is, you know, are lining up to join the Shakar party.

And yeah, this is, you know, Kai Winn was initially gonna run unopposed for Captain Minister or whatever, but. Yeah, it's great. Like she interprets this as a coup, but it's not a coup because it's a free election. Yeah. And like the difference is that once a word gets out

on the John Deere scandal that Kaye win Has embrolled has embrolled herself in like it's it's not even a contest like Kaye win is going to lose Yeah, because of how she's conducted herself. I think it's interesting how dangerous she seems as a character given how often she takes the L at the end of an episode Well put yeah, I mean that is I think the L at the end of an episode. Well put. Yeah. I mean, that is, I think that's just the strength of Luis Fletcher's performance, but she still feels scary loser. Yeah. Like, and it doesn't feel like this necessarily leaves us in a safe place with her. Yeah. Yeah.

Back at Quarx, Oh, Brian is feeling much better post rotator cuff surgery. He's feeling great, but his heater is gone. Ben, he's not in the zone anymore. Is this, is the implication here that it was, it was a jam up that he didn't in fact get his shoulder fixed and that the scam that they're running is just that O'Brien doesn't want to be a party of the gambling craze that's currently gripping Quark's bar. It wasn't a scam.

They never betrayed that. Right, but like a scam where the come up is that O'Brien gets out of people being interested in him being in the zone. I mean, they're missing a line of dialogue if that's the truth. It would just be very subtly implied. But not like, not in a way that seems good. Right, no, exactly.

It's like, I mean, like, here's what makes me think maybe, maybe that's what's going on is starfleet officers are meant to be so virtuous. Like maybe whoever wrote this is so dipped in that premise that they would never make the scam be, we're stealing money from cork and always make the scam be, we're just getting out of the like, remunerative aspect of this entirely, because that's not what we do, we're starfleet. What, it makes me think that if you and I are picking up so hard on this visual language and the subtlety

of what we think is happening. That, like, I don't think we're reading anything into this, that isn't there. Could it in fact be there and deep-sweat is not operating at such a level that, like, that that's the intent? God, I kind of think that's what's going on. I'm just, I'm unable to believe that. I want to believe that that's how they're doing it, but I also. I also don't think that it's that sophisticated of a show at this point. Yeah, and that's not a knock on deep space nine. It just seems like a language they don't speak. I might just be talking myself into this like, yeah, literally it's an idea that occurred to me as we were talking about it and like the last thing in my notes is

They didn't screw cork what the fuck? That was the last note I wrote about this episode Yeah, the button on the app is instead a Cut to Kira and Cisco at Kira's quarters. Yeah, she's got her like rucksack coming home from Having been away for a really long time. And playing in the dirt and stuff and she's not dirty. Yeah. And she's like, uh, come, yeah, she just like is explaining the kind of like new political situation on Bejor. Like it's,

it's in the bag for sugar. She cars like Wario. He's like, I'm gonna win. Shikar is like, Wario. He's like, I'm gonna win. Yeah, in the last image, I guess is Kira kneeling in front of that great big dick candle and blowing it out. If you blow out the dick candle in an episode that Shikar is in, does that mean that you are down with Shikar? Like, is that the implication here? Boy, if that's true, Kara really does have a type. I like Shakar for her. He's got way more charisma than Bariol. Yeah. But he's miscast, and that's sad. Yeah, yeah. you need Chris Christopher's in that for sure. Did you like this episode Ben?

It's a weird episode. I mean, there's a lot I like about it. It's one of those ones where the A and B story are just total oil and water. And you can't imagine how they found themselves in the same teleplay. But I guess I like it. I like that the more I think about the O'Brien storyline,

the less I feel like I understand it, you know, like, yeah, I feel like it could mean so many things now. How about you, Adam? I think if you took out the B story here and replaced it with a Cisco If you took out the B story here and replaced it with a Cisco centric B story where he's working the politics on his end between Bezier and the Federation and maybe the conflict is him trying to get the replicators sent there and there's some reason that the Federation can't do that because Bezier isn't a member of the Federation. The idea of what's best for Beijor is a conflict that's traded between Kiwin and Kira and Kira and Shikar and Shikar and Kiwin. There's this triangle of this conflict that is related to the Federation membership that I wish they drilled a little deeper on.

We get the micro level with the farmers and the government, but like it would have been good to get a little bit more macro. Like cut back to deep space. Nine and don't give us the fucking dart shit. Give us Cisco trying to work that aspect on his end. Like if people are truly starving on Beijor and the reclimateers are that big of a deal. Yeah. Then it's a life and death situation and life and death are not the stakes of this ep. And they have to be in order to trigger the resistance that we see here. That's why I can't really like this episode.

It's because the logic of it just doesn't quite hang together. Yeah. Political instability. I feel like is something that they haven't quite made their minds up on for Bay-Jour. Yeah. Because like a genuinely politically unstable place is a really scary place to be. Like, I've never actually been to a country that is politically unstable, but I've been to some that like have been. Oh, band. Really? Well, I'm just saying, like, I'm just saying, like, like it affects things down to the architecture, you know? Like, if you live in a dangerous city in a dangerous country, like all of the property that is of any value

has like high walls and gates and guards and stuff. And so it doesn't feel like normal middle class houses are behind gates. And that's what a stable society does it's no and and like the idea that that's what Bayjor might be that it's it is so damaged by the exit of the cardacians that it's like that where it's not safe to go out at night it's you know like you you're getting shaken down by the cops who are there to extract bribes and not enforce the law like like stuff like that

would make be your seem like a much more desperate place and i don't think that they're really meaning to point painted as that so the idea of just like hey like there's a popular armed resistance movement in the hills and now the guy that's leading it is running for president, and he's going to win. You know, it like, it's hard to like connect the two ideas in a way that makes sense. If Beijor was portrayed in the same way that Chronos was portrayed in Star Trek Discovery,

yeah. Like that would make for a far more interesting Conflict here, but because Beijor's portrayed as being so safe filled with good-looking farmers. Yeah, it's hard to feel like the stakes are that high. It's just a slightly sadder version of the Midwest All right, Ben. I need to go pee and then let's do P1 Alright, Ben, I need to go pee and then let's do pee once, okay? Okay. Priority one message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Need a supplement on top. Top alone?

Top alone. Top alone. Yeah, it's extra. But the interest alone could be enough to buy this ship! Oh, Ben, I'm about to pop a couple of broad brand drinking vitamins. Uh, unbranded content on the greatest generation. Just big fans. Barely holding it together right now.

We have a couple of priority one messages here. The first is of a commercial nature. What? I'm not kidding here. It's commercial. Who would want to advertise on a show like ours? Somebody that wants to reach tens of thousands of awesome friends of Tisoto. Hmm. Goes like this. It's been a long road. Getting up off your ass. It's been a long time. But you found your home at last and now you can feel the chips are stacking now nothing's in your way and you're not gonna exercise alone no you're not

got a sweat alone because you've got Jim Shimoda in the post the swell fees you've got Jim Shimoda you could do anything. It's your fake new Facebook home with friends who cut all the bullshit. You can reach any goal. We've got you. I don't remember how the song goes to be honest. We've got you. You've got Jim. Jim Shemota.

I mean, I got my aris. I mean, I got my aris. I mean, I got my aris. I mean, I got my aris. I mean, I got my aris. I mean, I got my aris. I mean, I got my aris. This on goes to be honest. We've got you. You've got Jim Jim Shimoda. Oh band we've got to go do karaoke sometime. Fuck you. That came from our friends at the Jim Shimoda. says, thanks for all your kind words, W slash R slash T Jim Shimoda. Here are scarves of the heart and a song,

sung to the tune of the Trek Enterprise theme. Wow. I could remember the Trek Enterprise theme, possibly. Pillum Barrest and bad. I found out I read that. It's really nice. I have let my, and bad. I found out I read that. It's really nice. I have let my gym going laps because as soon as you enter the new year, the gym is

indundated with newbies. Yeah, you don't get around those goofballs. I'm kind of waiting them out until February. I know that's bad, but But my my gym's been overrun. My my gym locker room is full of people hair drying their balls Can't deal with it. Ben, we have a second priority when messages is of a personal nature. It is from Dennis from Minneapolis Or if I were more worldly, I would say Denny from Minneapolis, or if I were more worldly I would say Denny from Minneapolis. It is for Adam and Ben.

Message goes like this W. Slashar, slash T. Theorotic Holog sweep programs at Quark's Bar. Do you think the vibe is more Xalman King's Red Shoed Diaries or more cinematics after Dark asking for a friend. Wow. Was Red Shoed Diaries show time? Yeah, thanks. Or was it HBO? I thought it was show time. Did Do Coveney and Show Time have some deal? I think it's weird how there's been like some revisionist to Coveney and that we forget that he was so closely

associated with South Corp. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's hard to make the argument that California Cation isn't to some extent. Fucking show, yeah. I agree. Like, like, South Corp. or adjacent itself. Yeah. I mean, I love David to Coveney and I'll put. I agree. Yeah. I mean, I love David to Cuff me, and I'll put it in a great way.

Hard to agree. Hard to agree, but Jesus Christ. They cast actual porn actors in that show, they had so many boobs in it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, interesting that 2p1s in a row have W slash R slash T is part of the part. I mean to answer the question, I think the Quark's bar hollow suites are hard porn. Is that cinema?

I never had cinematics. No, I don't think that's cinematics. I think that's worse than cinematics. I think it's just that the limits of sexual titillation in the 24th century are such that like I think that's just understood. I think I think what is baseline titillative Arousing is is so high Hundred years from now that it's just commonplace

Everybody's boners are so burnt out on just the most yeah like place. Everybody's boners are so burnt out on just the most like indulgent porno. Yeah you've just got a cinder for a dick. Wow well if you if there's something about our show that arouses an interest in purchasing a priority one message you can do that over at MaximumFund.org slash JemboTron, where personal messages are $100 and commercial messages are $200. Both of which are a great, great way to support the ongoing production of this program. A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FOD is from all over, gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Share Your Embarrassment Tour is coming in August 2023. We've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information

for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. dates and ticketing information for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris and I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweards. Pat Noswald. Could I get a Balrog burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org.

Look, your podcast apps are already open. Just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Whoa, Raph's hit. Hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and

Boy, what do I these giraffes do not smell good? No, they do not and they've such short Max, but I'm hearing we need to get on this off got to get on the art. Yeah, it's about terrain. Got us about to destroy humanity Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. Oh, we're actually we're podcasters We are podcasters, so it's different. Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out.

We would love to be on the boats. We came to by two. What do you think? Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. yourself a drunk Shimoda. Drunk Shimoda. Yeah, for me, the decision was easy. In that canyon scene, there's a guy that loses his shit and shoots up range in the canyon. And Colonel and Harris is like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, are you trying to start a civil war here?

And he grabs him by the scruff of the neck and throws him to the back of the line. What a putz! What a putz that guy is. That's my Shimoda. Yeah, that's a real Bozo move. Yeah, you can't do that. Thought he was good if shoot at me, sir.

Yeah, you can't do that. What have I you been? My Shimoda is Dr. Bashir. There's that opening scene where Cisco is playing Darts and gets called away and he kind of runs into Dr. Bashir on his way into the bar as he is leaving the bar and he says to Bashir that the chief is over there in the zone. And Dr. Bashir looks very concerned. His facial expression is one of extreme concern as Cisco walks out.

And it really made me laugh because the logic of it to me was that in the zone could mean so many weird different things in this universe. Like, oh no, do we need to like modify a transporter to get it out of the zone? And I think that that was all in Alexander Siddick's performance in a very fun way. Yeah, I agree. Like, he thought about what that could potentially mean

to a guy like Bashir and put it on his face. And that was beautiful to me. Good Shimoda. Ben, what do we have coming up on the next episode? The next episode Adam, if you can believe it, a season three episode 25. What? Fassets.

Jazee attacks must come to terms with her feelings of inferiority, when she meets her past hosts in an ancient trail right of closure. Closure, Adam. It's something we give ourself. I wonder if she's going to go sit in that hot tub. Oh, yeah, that hot tub is often associated with getting in touch with yourself on trip. Yeah. As hot tubs frequently are. Yeah, but don't try and get in touch with anybody else in a hot tub. It's not as nice as it sounds like

it might be. Ben, what do you say we check out what kind of way we're gonna review this next episode. I think there should be a hot tub square on the board and there isn't. I'll say this also. I wish there were more like what's that game on windows that's like it's mind sweeper isn't it? Like that game where you land on a square and it tells you whether you hit a mine. If I have a tweak for the game that we're playing right now, it would be fun if there were squares hidden under numbers that just said whether or not we gave each other coupons

for drinking. Because the idea of having this weapon against each other, I think is super fun. I'd like to continue it. I like that idea a lot. I mean, maybe we can talk to Craig Anderson who coded this up about what it would take to put some some some some surprise squares into this. Yeah. For now, we're on square 67. The square directly ahead is a banger, which

would move us back five squares, uh, in another five squares, there is a quark spar, and those are the only two hurdles ahead. So what do you say you roll that dive in? You're required to learn as you play, roll. Okay Adam, I have, uh, I have the six-sided virtual dice rolling around in my hand, I'm gonna roll it. You want to give it a blow? Tula! Did I win? Harvey! I have rolled a two, Adam. So what? Nice.

Chemptus over the banger. We are on square 69. I mean that right there should be something. Nice. Should be a hot tub, I suppose. You really got a good gutter holding your breath for that though. Oh man, yeah. I mean I suppose you do with any 69? I personally don't. I think you get a breath, Ben.

Yeah, but if you're doing a 69 with the penis having person, and that thing gets like all the way down your throat, I can close off your airway. 69. Ha, ha, ha, ha in another Quark Spire next time. It's very good. Yeah, that's the truth. The truth of the matter also been is that the raw version of this episode is nearing the two-hour mark, which makes it time for us to thank the many people who make this show possible.

Gotta thank our buddy Adam Ragusia, who made the original theme music for this show, after chapping and screwing dark materials, original theme music for our earlier iteration, the greatest generation, not deep space nine, which is now canonically what that was called. Right. We gotta thank our friend Bill Tilly for making fun and funny trading cards for every single fucking episode that we do. It's something he doesn't have to do. It's something he could take a break from at any point. He still does it. He's the best. We owe him a thousand Pina Caladas.

We really do. In pink zebra hoof bottles. I think he'll accept the hoof. Way better than I ever did. Yeah, you were very mad at me when I gave you the pink zebra hoof. I'm a shame to how mad I was at that point. Adam, we got to thank all the friends of Disoto who support us on a monthly basis by going to maximumfund.org slash donate. Really, it makes a difference between us being able to do this show and not. Lest you think that we could just do this show on our own

without your support, you would be wrong in that. We really and truly do need the support of our viewers to keep the show going. It's grown too big for us to be able to control. And so we rely on the generous contributions of our viewers to help keep it going. So at just the $5 level, I think this episode is provided $5 worth of entertainment. Ben, I would recommend that you release the show Unedited.

And it's full two hour version with just some interstitials dropped in so that the viewers can understand just how naturally funny we are. Well, I think that that's like a great point actually. The editing that goes into this show takes as much time as anything. It's insane making how much the show is edited. And yet it is great work to be doing because we care deeply about the quality of the program. We sure do Adam, so help us out. We love you. Look, if you can't,

if you can't lift the $5 a month level, close the show. Jesus Christ. Leave a, leave a five star review on Apple Podcast or anywhere else to get your podcast. All you have to do is begin the sentence and with that and we can be done! This is... I'm looking at the viewer... Where's my camera? Okay, here it is. Always thought of the red light. This is the longest episode we've ever recorded of the greatest generation. It's the truth!

Banda, is it the truth? No. What? Just close it! I'm desperate for you to close it! I have to edit this one! And with that... We'll be back at your next time. With another great episode of Star Trek Deep Space 9, and an episode of the greatest generation, Deep Space 9.

You're so drunk. That must close the show. You know what, you reap what you fucking so, man. You gave me the coupon? You knew what would happen. I should have given it to you on one that you were gonna edit. It was my bad. Yeah. what would happen. I should have given it to you on one that you were gonna edit. It was my bad. Yeah, you fucked up.

I blew it. I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was-

I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was-

I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was- I was thinking that was-