The Greatest Generation - Uncle Magic (DS9 S4E5)

Episode Date: March 25, 2019

When a lover from Dax’s past visits Deep Space Nine, the rest of the crew expects some tension between them. But after their scientific collaboration results in personal fireworks, they’ll have to decide if imperiling their futures as Trill symbiotes is worth the risk. What is average, really? How do you turn crying into kissing? What would “Season 1 Bashir” do? It’s the episode that stretches the tension taffy!

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdisotoforlabor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the greatest generation. Deep Space 9. The Star Trek podcast by a couple of guys who are a little bit embarrassed about having

a Star Trek podcast. I'm Adam Pryanaka. I'm Ben Harrison. Adam, we are recording this late at night. The night before you have to fly out for a trip, because we were planning on recording earlier this week, a week that was already very busy before I had jury duty.

Just a perfect timing, is jury duty, right? Like, I'm very happy to do like my civic duty and serve on a jury, but like can we get the timing down? When they distributed the questionnaire to the jury pool, like did you put down Star Trek podcast as your occupation? The jury selection process took two days for this trial and it was an attempted murder featuring a machete.

And I said there were two days thinking a lot about how I would answer some of the questions that the attorneys were asking prospective jurors. And first one on the list was, what do you tell them your profession? Because, you know, I kind of need to not be here. So I could say like a foremost Star Trek podcaster. That would be worse. I mean, it's not true. You are the foremost Star Trek podcaster.

I'm merely one of your minions. Hmm. Saying my primary source of income is a Star Trek podcaster in a room full of serious people doing a very serious job. Just felt like disrespectful to the institution of the court. podcast in a room full of serious people doing a very serious job just felt like disrespectful to the institution of the court. You know, I mean it being L.A. I'm sure half of the jury pool was podcasters. So like I'm sure they hear that all the time, right? There was one guy that said he was an actor in my side but

nobody else in the entertainment industry. And uh... Did you recognize this actor? I did not. He said he was, he mainly worked as a stunt person. I take it because we're talking right now about it that you were not selected. Is that a fair assumption? I was dismissed, but uh... Were you dismissed to your face or did you not make the cut? Like, there's a different way that... that you don't make a jury.

Yeah. Like, one of them of them is you're actually questioned by a prosecutor and then based on your answers, you're dismissed. Does that all went down? They empaneled the jury. They got 12 jurors, finally, after two entire days of this. And then they went through eight people to get two alternates.

Like eight people got up there and one of them was like, I'm trying to be a cop, one of them had like a very similar traumatic relationship with, you know, like a... With the machete. Like, there was machete history. It wasn't, I don't think it was a machete, but she had like, some event in her past that was like unbelievably similar to the thing that,

you know, the vague description of the case that we had gotten and the judge was like, I don't want to like put you through this, you know, like, and it was like, I agreed with all of the dismissals, you know, it seemed like they were dismissed for good reason, but I was also watching all of the benches in the audience area get emptier and emptier and realizing that the probability of me getting in-paneled as an alternate was going through the roof. That was not my jury experience. We were basically in a line at Disneyland.

And where people got dismissed, the line moved right up. And yeah, before I knew it, I was in the box. And I served on a jury for a federal case that lasted for almost four weeks. Wow. It was not a violent crime though. It was a financial crime.

So it was the SEC suing someone. I didn't know that the federal government spent much time punishing people for financial crimes. It's nice to hear that that happens. It was a different time, Ben. It was like 10 years ago. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Ha. It was a different time, Ben. It was like 10 years ago. All that being said, like I was, I had a lot of

Feelings about what it would be like to serve on a jury and I kind of wished I Had gotten the experience in a weird way just because it's like I've never done that before and it seems like a big like moral and personal challenge. Like I have really like studiously led my life in a way so as to avoid making life or death decisions about other people. You know, like I could never be a doctor because I am too scared of having that kind of, you know, weight to all of my decisions. Risk is part of the game, you want to sit in that chair. I was tantalized by it, but also scared of it, you know. It felt like standing on the edge of a tall building.

Like you're not scared, you're going to fall, you're scared, you're going to jump kind of a thing. Well, even though my trial was non-violent, I had very different feelings about my willingness to participate in a jury and also like, my interest in deciding things for other people is far different too, I guess. I had such a profound experience being on the jury

for as long as I did did I'd briefly like looked into Changing careers and going into law Wow It really spoke to me deeply and I think honestly the best part was just listening to people argue and then in my head deciding which one was had the better argument Yeah, I like that. I could do that professionally That's that was something that was very appealing to me. I did really like the kind of cantankerist

mustachio judge that we had. And I was like, if I was like 20% more cantankerist, I think I could enjoy being a judge. Yeah. But you know, you get to eat a lot of plates of shit before you get to being a judge. That's a pretty great spot in a courtroom, man. Yeah. Well, Adam, we have a bit of a special app today.

And I'm not just talking about the fact that it's a max fund drive app. I'm talking about the fact that it's a, uh, it's a lost in the Nebula app. The Nebula having caused us to do an episode of the greatest generation without notes. Here's the, here's what I'll tell you, Ben. Okay. Uh, I wrote down character names. Oh. And because I do not believe that to be against the, the spirit of the thing. I think the spirit of, of no notes is the retelling of a story in your own words. And I think if we were to do that and also be fumble fucking around with, with alien names, I don't think that would be enjoyable for anyone.

So I want to make sure at least the day of the names right. And so I did write those down. I I've been like flashcarding myself sitting here waiting for you to get set up so that I could try to remember them, but I have no confidence. So I'm going to lean on the fact that you have the names written down. All right. I've got your back on that. I also wrote down some notes for

rating and review and I wrote down my Shimoda thinking that that also existed outside the rules. Yeah. I think Shimoda reasonably exists outside the rules. It feels really weird to do an episode of this show in a brand new way after so many times. No. But I'm ready. I'm ready to do it, Ben. Let's discuss from memory Star Trek Deep Space 9 Season 4 Episode 5. Rejoined. We start with a scene of Jetsia Dax doing some sleight of hand with an egg. This is like a regular earth egg, which is a little disappointing, you know. Yeah, why didn't they get an alien egg?

Oh, yeah, just get one of those ones that the Kardashian guy eats and that there are four lights episodes. Most people become ill at the sight of live TASPA. Oh, yeah. Quark is doing something in response to like the sleight of hand tricks that Daxen Bishir is doing that Larry Wilmore would call Ferengi React. She swallowed the egg before she came to the bar and then regurgitated it on cue. He is flipping out. He's got like the mind of a toddler.

Yeah. This is not a good look for court. And this isn't even street magic. This isn't even like the kind where like you think you're inflicting harm on the magician. It's just like, this is Uncle Magic. Yes, it is. It's Uncle Magic. Quite disgusting, actually. Is Uncle Magic when you work in the house of the magician? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha So, uh, so, uh, so Dax gets called up to, uh, to Sisko's office. He's got a fairly grim look on his face when the door opens and Dax walks in.

And this is an Avery Burke's directed episode. It is. I think he directs himself in particular, very interestingly in this episode. He's really scaling at her and I was like, oh man, like, it looks like he's pissed at her. And then I realized that like, as a boss, when you have to break bad news to somebody, you need to emotionally prepare them for that. It's possible to prime somebody for having a worse reaction to bad news than is warranted.

You're right. Because by starting with a scale, you're making the floor a little closer conversationally, right? But if you start off all chummy and happy, that floor is going to be a lot further down when you hit it. Right, and I think you can do this like in the opposite way too. Like my wife recently had to ask for some time off at work and went to her boss just like ash in face.

Like this is a, I know a huge ask and it was like she had to ask for a week off. And by the time she got to the point of saying that what she was asking for was one week off, he was like, oh, jeez, I thought you were gonna ask for like a month. You know. Wow, for her like that's the for like a month. You know. Wow, for her like that's the right hedge, right?

You wanna hedge in that direction. Yeah, so I thought this was an interesting plan, his part. Because the bad news that he has is that Lennara Khan, a trill scientist, is coming to the station to do some science tests on the little D. You remembered little Lenara Khan from memory? I did. Great job, man. Wow.

There is no fucking way that I would remember that. So Lenara Khan is an ex-wife of Tariah Stacks, is that right? Correct. Yes. Go, me. Go. Interestingly, like one of the few trill that isn't an an Ankylosaur style symbiant but a nub-and-bug from a setty alpha-5.

So combination. And this is a problem for reasons that we will get into later in the episode. But like one thing I also love about Cisco is that he's got a bunch of outs figured out for DAX. Like, this is gonna suck for you, but I'm gonna cover for you, and you've got a bunch of occasions saved up. Why don't you use it? If you had to pick one, is he being a better boss or a better friend in this scene?

I feel like professionally, this is a great boss move. To just not even give her the chance of being in a position that could result in her exile, which is like not to cut to too much later, but like the risk to this person being on the station is so grave that it could have that kind of impact. I mean, it's also just like from a budget standpoint, like if you're kind of have like one of your key employees take vacation, you don't want them to be gone for like three months or whatever

because they've accumulated so much time off. Right. DAX has a very like Picard approach to her paid leave, you know, just lets it pile up like cord wood. Yeah, you can't do that. You need to be about some self-care. Kira got this too, right? Didn't Bashir order Kira to knock off for a long time?

That's right. It's different coming from a doctor though. This isn't medically prescribed. Yeah, but that's what happened to Picard. Yeah, that's true. He went to Ryzen, got into all kinds of hijinks. Yeah, Cisco basically bookends the app. We see him a little bit here and then we see him toward the end at basically the story's inflection point.

Yeah. And the rest of the episode, he pretty much stays away. Because he's not the captain of the episode, he pretty much stays away. Because he's not the captain of the defiant, the story is the scientists are coming on board to borrow the defiant in order to create an artificial wormhole. Yeah, they want to create a triangle in space. Yeah, flaming triangle. So Wurf and Cura and Dax go down to meet these scientists as they come aboard.

Oh, does the scene in the bar, because they go back to the bar, right? At some point, is that before the scientists show up when Bashir explains the stakes to Kira? It's kind of a neat coincidence that we are doing this special episode about this special episode of DS9 because this scene is Bashir and Kira giving Quark the lowdown.

Like trying to explain to him why this is so interesting and fraught for DAX and Quark can't remember or keep all of the names straight. To be honest, I'm sorry about the whole thing. I was giving me a headache. I thought it would have been nice if Quark had called out the one that he had played in the episode where they all took on the personality of a previous host briefly.

Right, yeah. I felt like some connective tissue to that part of DaX's story was irritatingly lacking. There's nothing quite like holding a baby to your breast. of Dax's story was irritatingly lacking. There's nothing quite like holding a baby to your breast. The scene's sole purpose for being is to deliver exposition to the viewer. Yeah. What I felt the scene was lacking

was a reason that Quark needed to know this stuff. Yeah. Like it would have been interesting if for some reason he needed to know this stuff. Yeah. Like, it would have been interesting if for some reason he needed to know what Lanara Khan's favorite drink might be for some reason. Like, I don't know. But that's not here.

The scene is just for us. There's a very pretty shot that is framed in the kind of like circular doorway of Quarks, where Bashir and Kira talk about the problem with these two symbiants encountering each other in subsequent hosts and in subsequent lives. The concept is so interesting though, and the more I thought about it, the more it made a sick amount of sense, right? Because if you have this cast system of of of trail people that only interact with other

trail people, you get to create these relationships that last hundreds and hundreds of years. Right. And the sort of power concentration that that would create, I think, would be really bad for that society. So while on the micro level of this episode, it is made to be a terrible thing. And I think we come to that side of it by the end of the story. Yeah. Like the greater macro story of it makes some sense. It's one of my favorite things in sci-fi writing when you set up a bunch of kind of fantastical or super technical truths about a time and place and then you actually like run down what the ramifications of that would be for characters. Yeah. It's a great idea.

And what Prasir Tel-Skira is that like when people try and like rekindle old flames from the past trying like rekindled flames from the past and in their new hosts, it is so taboo among the trail that you'll be exiled from the planet if you're caught doing it. And exile means they can't take your ankylosor out and put it into somebody else when you die. So when the hosts die, the symbion's die with them. It sets up a forbidden love type of story, Ben. Boy, it is just inevitable that there's gonna be some forbidden love once that stuff is uttered, right? Do you have a handle on the average number of hosts

a trail has? Because like we're told that DAX is the eighth host or something? Yeah, I mean, I think that like, if you watch a lot of videos online you might get a skewed sense of what average is, you might think 9 or 10 is average but it's really like 5 is pretty average and- It's gotta be 5 right? It just has to be. Satisfying to almost every true.

Yeah, the the five inch angular sore is perfect. And everyone knows it. The reason I ask that is because like much is made over the idea of throwing your life away. And DAX is in her 30s as a host.

And so one might assume that her life would last another, I don't know, 80-ish years. Let's just say 80 years. Yeah. I mean, Kersan was like past 100 by quite a bit when he died, right? It would give another element to this story if we knew somehow that like most shrill have 20 hosts. And so the sacrifice is actually 500 years of living. That that DAX is thinking of considering giving up, but we never get the math of her sacrifice. It's only the emotional math.

And that's a choice the episode makes. Gold to cut, the cut, gold to cut. So we meet these, uh, these trill. We got, uh, kind of an older fella. It kind of looks like a guy who retired to like Manhattan Beach. And, uh, we've got, uh, younger fella who is, uh, Wanara's brother. He kind of reminded me of the hair club for Men Guy.

Yeah, he just have that look. He's not just a trill. He's also a client. Hannah reminded me of the hair club for men guy. Yeah, he does have that look. He's not just a trill, he's also a client. Yeah, younger guy is Bijal and older guy is Hanor. Hanor, Pran, Bijal, Otner. Are these guys both also joined? I'm just going to assume that if you're... If you don't have a last name, you're not joined, right?

Or does your last name change when you get joined? Is it like getting married? Jadziya Dax has two names. Maybe Beijal Ohtner is the latest in the Ohtner line of angular source. Or maybe her last name used to be Ohtner. Jadziya Ohtner. I don't know. We get the feeling right away that that old,

trill scientist is kind of a hardliner traditionalist type. But yeah. And the, and the younger one may have more of an open mind. Right. Because this is 1995. Right. And like the ageism of traditionalists is very much at hand here. Yeah. It is hard to ignore the parallels in this story with the kinds Aegeism of traditionalists is very much at hand here. Yeah. It is hard to ignore the parallels in this story with the kinds of conversations that were having about like LGBTQ people in 1995, I think.

Sure. It was still pretty taboo and pretty forbidden in most quarters. Like I think that the fact that there is a girl girl like romantic on-screen kiss in this episode is a fairly big deal for Star Trek at this time? Yeah, they got a Biff Yeager amount of mail about that scene. Really? The world was a different place in 95 and the kiss on this show was not the Rose Ann Kiss, which was like a peck.

This was like a kind of a make out kiss. Yeah. And it blew some people's minds. It wasn't just a make out kiss. It's a kiss where there's a visible strand of spit between their mouths for a moment, you know? Like that's a hot and heavy kiss. You wanna dangle that strand. So you know it's good hot and heavy kiss. You want to dangle that strand.

So you know it's good, right? Yeah. Now when you're kissing someone that you really like, you're gonna want to use enough spittle to hang a strand between yourself and your kissing partner, but not so much spittle that it runs out the front of your mouth. We're installing a guttus system along the edge of the low limit so that the water drains freely and into the subsystem that we designed on last week's

episode. In our dream model home with the most up-to-date technology, we've installed densest vacuums. In every seat giving you access to suction in every single room in your house. With this smart home system you can run it from your smartphone. But we're not there yet Adam. They have a little party in the the ward room where you know they're just celebrating the idea that they're gonna be doing some science together All of the trills kind of gather around warf as kind of the curiosity of the party in a way that I'm sure made felt made Warfield terrible and other Jesus yeah

like Like it is interesting in an episode that is like trying in an honest way to kind of push the envelope in a progressive way to have a scene like this, but I also love the shit that war flips back at them, like when they ask him what he dreams about, he says like, shit that would give you nightmares basically. It is better you do not know. I really love the answer he gives before that when asked if he's excited for the science mission.

Like, I have answered many questions in my life the same way as War, when sort of like prompted for an affirmative, like, you got to be so psyched for this presentation of a bullshit HR concept or whatever. Whatever it is, I saw that look on Michael Dorne's face and I saw Warf kind of twist someone else's words into something that meant something a little bit like what the asker had intended. I am looking forward to it. But also like tuning it down in such a way that to make it cling on. I thought it was great.

Yeah. But at some point, Dax and Lennara are piling their little plastic plates up with with bejure and food over at the buffet. They are both self-conscious in this moment because it is it is explicitly an awkward situation. It's in a room with a couple of X's. Right. And everybody is kind of like peering over at them to see what they're going to do in a way that I think a room full of people aware of a couple of X's probably would. It's an intense moment and it kind of endeers them to each other. We're both mature adults and we can handle this. It's a bit of a crucible, right?

Yeah. Outside of the buffet drama they're having, there is a fair amount of natural electricity between them. They're watching us again. I know. I wish I knew a little bit about how they cast this, because I imagine they probably had Dairy Verl read with the people that they had come in to read for this part.

Right. And they're great together. Yeah, if you don't nail this casting, this episode is not the same at all. ["Avory, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, come to a fore, Avarain, Avarain, come to a part where the Little D goes out to do science, right? Oh yeah, so it does its first science, and they have a lot of prep to do. You need to prep the whole for science. They have like a big meeting in the Little D's engine room.

Michael Eddington is there for some reason. I don't understand his continued presence. Like Cisco Trust trust him, but that doesn't mean wharf has to Right is Eddington's station down the defiant like is he allowed on the station even? He's sort of like a guy who knows he's gonna be fired But also knows that like his his badge that gets him in and out of the building will be shut off as soon as he leaves. And so he just chooses not to leave the building. Yeah, at some point, Dax and Lenara are left alone by the crotchety old man. And they have, there's a really nice two shot that goes uncut for a full scene where Dax is kind of

like leaning over Lennaris shoulder, like doing that thing where Lennaris hand is on the mouse and then Dax's hand goes like over top of hers. Like she's teaching her bowling? Yeah, or they're making pottery together or something. Yeah. Golf swing. We've seen all of these tropes in television and film. Yep. But it is a great scene. The tension is super thick, spelled with two C's. Probably another

good reason why we're not supposed to spend much time together. There's a, you know, like when Lennaris talking, DaX is like looking at the place where her neck meets her shoulder. Like, it is so sexy. And it's just an interaction. And it's building to this thing where Lennaris' previous host, whose name, it alludes me. This is Nalani. Nalani, who is married to Tarias.

See, I knew- I knew my names would come in handy. You're like that person that I'm playing Scrabble with that has the little buck slip with all the two letter words written on it. Fuckin' hate you. You're not allowed to have that slip at the game, right? My- one of my uncles plays like that. Oh. And he fuckin' kills me every time I play Scrabble with him. That's cheating. Have that slip at the game, right? One of my uncles plays like that. Oh.

And he fucking kills me every time I play Scrabble with him. That's cheating. That's like having an open dictionary. Tell that to Uncle Ted. I'm sure Uncle Ted has good qualities, but that is not one of them. That is... that's terrible. You shouldn't play with Uncle Ted. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Oh, Ben, of course they won't. Yeah, you're right. But... Ben, what do we know about Avery Brooks as a director? Like, hearing you to say all this stuff

in describing the scene makes me remember that what is he more than anything? He's an actor's best friend. Yeah. He's giving these actors super long scenes on cut. His characters are filled with emotional paythos. Yeah. He's expert at this, like drawing this out of his actors.

This moment, I think, weirdly, like in almost no way I can name specifically reminded me of the scene between Bashir and Kira in the doorway of Quirks Bar when they talked about the stakes of this. Yeah. in the doorway of Quirks Bar when they talked about the stakes of this. Yeah. And there was a ton of deep emotional weight in that scene also. But what's happening in this scene is that Jetsia Dax is apologizing for

Tariya's Dax's kind of devil-made-care test pilot attitude. He ignored something that Nalani said about testing some shuttle, and it killed him, and made of that in the scene and it is heavy and it it like further cements that they're Like in love with each other was there a moment in time in this episode where You were sure that this was going to work out or Were you always thinking that this was going to end in some kind of tragedy? I think this is probably a good

time to ask that question. I don't remember like thinking about trying to predict what would happen. I think when I was watching it I was thinking this is a TV show and essentially a procedural in most ways. And you know, this is like one of the earliest TV shows to kind of take the tropes of a procedural and then take the storylines and extend them out through long story arcs that last entire seasons. But I guess I felt pretty secure in this moment that this was not going to be a paradigm-shifting episode. So I wasn't worried that we wouldn't have Dax after this because she got, you know, sent into exile or something.

Right. But I guess she wouldn't be sent into exile. I guess it could be just something that becomes true of her. She will never be rejoined after this. Yeah. I guess I wasn't worried about that for some reason. I don't know. How about you?

I just always thought she was gonna die. Like I just thought, you thought Lenara was gonna die. That crossed my mind. It definitely crossed my mind that the most convenient way to end this as a writer would be for Lenara to die. And they do kind of head faint at that. That would cheapen the ending of the episode which we'll get to in a little bit.

But interesting how they keep breaking Dax's heart, like as a theme, it seems to be a thing for her. So the experiment seemed to be working. It's working. They do one experiment and it turns into a success. The flaming triangle opens. It's hugs and high fives after the fact.

And then there's some scenes afterward where Lenara and Dax are hanging out quite a bit. And this is something that they're not afraid to be in public the way that they might have felt some apprehension in that buffet line. And it catches the attention of the younger brother. Well, yeah, and the old man like there, there's that scene where they like go out to, they're both kind of creeping, right?

They go out to dinner and they like third wheel bishier. Who, like, it's maybe the funniest friendzoned bishier stuff we've gotten in like two seasons. Because I think that like his character has evolved past that. If this were season one bishier, he'd want to fuck him both. You know? Yeah, instead he's just bored because he knows that it's not on the table as a possibility. Yeah, like bishier would want to be finger cuffs. Yeah, like this year would want to be finger cuffs. He's relieved to be called away to help somebody's broken leg.

Kayaking in the holendack again. And then it turns into just like a full blown date between Lennara and Dax. And nobody particularly cares except for Old Man Trill who sees this and is like clearly just creeping on them in the bar, right? Yeah. And he tells the brother, he's like, you know, like they're awful chummy these days.

This surprised me, it was the younger of the two other scientists is the one that confronts Lenara about it and that surprised me. I didn't realize that they were brother and sister. Look, I'm your brother. When he confronted her and I thought it was kind of a weird like the old guy cares a lot more and the young guy is like kind of riding for her but then winds up being the one that goes and like carries the torch of this shitty traditional frame of mind. But then I re-examined it when I realized he's a brother

and they probably have a level of intimacy that they can kind of talk about sensitive things without the presumption being, I'm gonna go tell the police on you or whatever. Yeah, that's a good point. For the sort of access that a younger brother has to their sister to have a conversation like this, where you can just be honest,

even though it could be hurtful, the overarching issue is so big. And the stakes are so high that the mere reference of this kind of relationship is extremely upsetting to Lenara. Yeah, it's such a smart allegory because this thing that her brother is doing is exactly what homophobes do all the time,

which is like, it's not that I have anything against it per se, it's just that I don't want my family members to have to deal with the horrible life that you have when you're gay or trans or whatever, which is like, I just like, you take one step back and realize that you're the kind of person that is making life more challenging for people who are gay or trans. This is such an interesting episode because it becomes the thing that you view it through, right? The lens that you view it through gives this episode a ton of power. Sure. And that was part of the show's reaction to the criticism of this episode. It's like, these are two alien people in the future. Like this is not a

story about, like this isn't a story about a same-sex couple was the defense. Right. Don't put that on it, man. Which I think is a very 1995 defense. I think many contemporary shows would beat that back a little more directly. It's hard to imagine that they didn't have a lot of intentionality about what this episode is saying when they said it. Well, I mean, every book said that it wasn't about homosexuality as much as it was about the love between two people and the cultural stakes of that. But it had to cross their mind. I don't know. No doubt. I have a question. Yeah.

I mean, there's like a bunch of cons going on right now. And some Star Trek guy got up there and kind of lamented that Star Trek Discovery is the first Star Trek to have openly gay characters on it because every other TV show that exists beat Star Trek to that. And Star Trek used to be the kind of trailblazer in these areas, and that is a mark of shame

for Star Trek as a result, which I think is a totally fair point. I don't know. I can understand like you want the things that you love to represent the things that you care about, and it's disappointing when something that depicts the future lets you down that way. Yeah and I think representation matters, you know, like it really made a sincerely big difference in plenty of people's lives when like Ellen came out, you know?

Yeah. It was like, oh, like this is normal and okay and okay. And she took a ton of shit on Oprah and stuff. There's amazing footage of her defending her right to exist as what she is from audience members on talk shows in that moment. There was moral courage in that. And Star Trek has had an inconsistent history with moral courage, I think. Well said. Yeah. So Lennara is so upset by this interaction with her brother that she runs to Dax's quarters, and this is the scene they're both extremely upset because as I remember, like the scene

opens with Lennara making the case that they're just friends and everyone else is being crazy and like there's nothing to worry about and this like it visually hurts Dax to hear someone she loves say this. And then eventually it turns into a scene where they're both really arguing for the idea of their continued relationship and the face of the consequences of it and to reassure Lennara DAX's kisses her. That span of beats in between the last word being uttered and them kissing So fucking well directed and so well performed like just that like

I would do and I were oh we're we are doing this we are doing it. We are fully making out, you know, it's really Stretching the tension to a fee You get you get a good Five seconds of yeah, of pause. It's good. It's really well done. This is probably just a knock against like what an emotional mess I am, but I've never like turned crying into making out in my life. You know, like where I was, I was super upset or the person I was with was super upset and then we wound up smooching over it. There's so much tension and release here to this moment.

It's not sex, but like it's makeup sex adjacent. Yeah, it, like, but then she runs off though, right? Like, I don't, I don't believe we go to commercial with Linarra still in Dexasax's quarters. Yeah, they cut to a train going into a tunnel. They cut to two tunnels. Actually, they cut to a tunnel going into a tunnel. You know what, they would do that one naked gun. Yeah. And I love naked gun. Yeah. Cutting directly to DX and Cisco talking, where DAX is making the case for accepting the punishment that would come from their relationship.

Like, like, X-Isles on the table, she's writing for X-Isle. She's like, this love is too important to me to care about X-Isle and permanent death. Yeah, and so Cisco kind of rides for responsibility instead. Yeah, and that kind of infuriates death, Dex. A lot is made of the presence of Kersan as an element of her personality,

who didn't give a fuck, you know, like one, and we have a great object lesson in that with Kersoto, who unfortunately is also not really mentioned when, and we have a great object lesson in that with Kersodo, who unfortunately is also not really mentioned at all in this episode. But yeah, like the Cisco is saying, like the responsible long-term best play here is don't pursue a relationship with her, but if you do, I'm here for you. Like, you're my, you're my friend,

and I will ride for you, no matter what you choose. Like, if it's, if it's what your heart desires, that's what I'm, that's what I'm going to fight for. They go out to try and make another triangle. This is like second phase of the experiment. And the experiment and the experiment does not go well in a prize. It's the same thing where they make the flaming triangle, but this time they send in a probe and it causes the triangle to explode. Which drops a bunch of bangers on the little D and and they detect a plasma leak down and engineering and nobody is picking up the radio when they call down there. Do you think that Worf in his head is playing the idea of his death having happened during

a science mission and how disappointing that was be? Like I've got to believe that he's got a mechleth where Cisco keeps his soup normally and it's like if I have to do this myself if I if I have to fight someone on the bridge of the little d before the warp core goes like I'm gonna have to do it I'm not going out like this he's got a thermos full of poison and a dagger. Yeah. The seat. God, killed by science would be the worst, right? The worst. We hear like, at one point, Lanara gives Jetsia a pair of earrings that she says were given to her by a Klingon scientist.

Klingon scientist. Don't hear about that too often. I really feel like Klingon earrings would be like barrels, right? The kind that stretch out the lobes. Oh, yeah, yeah. Not these danglers. When that guy dies, all the everybody turns their head to this guy and goes,

Neeeee. Wine out to let the heavens know a nerd is coming. Yes. Like a tennis umpire, I'm just gonna say like point four. Like, like, there's a plasma fire and engineering. There's a, there's a whole breach. This is dangerous stuff. Dax gets down there with the damage control team and the damage control team have brought some like hand implements and When the door opens, I think that it's like

And we get a look down into engineering and It does not disappoint. There's a great big green fire that is taken up most of the floor And it's like close to the warp core, which is discussed as being like a fairly imminent threat to the ship. If they can't get this thing under control, the core will be breached and the D will explode. So there is a pretty radical start trick solution

to the problem because Lanarara is like slumped on the floor next to the warp core with the fire in between her and them. And they make like a sloped force field down from this upper area to where Linarra is that dax then kind of like gingerly walks down. It's a pretty cool effect. It's a cooler idea. This is something that we've wanted Odo to do for a long time. The idea of this future tech being a utility.

The idea that she walks down this force field to the other side of engineering is amazing. And I never even considered it. That's crazy that they would do this in that way. Great writing and great execution of a complicated idea. I'm sure it was really fun for the like special effects department to like work on what this would look like and how they would do it. Like I don't even know how you shoot it, you know?

Yeah. Was she like walking down a sloped green screen in a different place or something? I don't know. Yeah, you know, for a director known more for working with actors, this is like a real special effect set piece here that takes a lot of effort to direct correctly.

Yeah. So, way to go, every Brooks. Yeah. So, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, uh, so, so, uh, uh, so, uh, so, uh, uh, so, uh, uh, right because you know that's coming they both said they're they only had like 15 or 20 seconds. I think Eddington is pissed that that DAX and the whole like fire suppression crew just walked from where they were into engineering. That was so maddening like why weren't they running? There's a plasma fire. It's not then when would they run? He's got burns all over his face. Well, you know, like emergency responders are trained not to run. Oh, yeah.

You think that's the deal here? Maybe. I don't know. I mean, it's not consistent with anything else we've seen on the show, but... There are a few running pet ants commenting on the IMDB page of this episode. Yeah, but yeah, the day is safe. Linar is fine. Sadly, the the science

Experiment did not go exactly as they hoped, but she's gonna she's gonna have to do some studying up and There's like a moment when Dax and Lar are talking about this. Lanar is like kind of recuperating in her quarters and Dax is like, Hey, how about you like stick around here for the next few months and do your research, you know, like stay in my place or whatever. What's sad is that that scene in the Jeffries tube. It sets us up for an expectation of a happy ending. And I qualify happy ending with the ending that we want.

I believe the ending that we want is for Lenara and Dax to be together, but when given the chance for emotions to die down and like them to have made it back to DS9 and they're not stuck in a ship about to explode, like cooler heads prevail. And Lenara equivocates a little bit about whether or not she wants to stay because that's the thing, right? Like they can continue to do the science from the station

and Dax extends an invitation to Lenora to stay in order to do that. And Lenora, after having a little bit of time between the little D and deep space 9, does not give an answer that is super satisfying in this moment. I can always come back later. DAX does have a dramatic flourish here. She kind of sets up the end of the episode by going, you know, I'll just know what decision you've made

if you board that ship. Like, you don't have to make the decision now. Like, that's cool, I guess. Like, if you don't want an answer now, like, I guess you could wait. And so she does. She like waits on a balcony on the promenade and stakes out. And waits for Lenara to either board or not.

It seems like she's ready for this to be not what she wants, right? Yeah. She's definitely up there feeling sad feels already. But when Lenara shows up and is about to board, you know, not having picked her out in the crowd, she really breaks. And then Lenara like turns back one more time and finds her up there on the second level. And boy, this was a like I had goosebumps watching this scene. It is so sad because Dax is a fucking wreck and Linarra does not really break.

You know, there's the answer that Dax gets when Linarra boards, you know, attempts to board her ship home. But then there's the layer on top of that, which is the reaction to each other. You want this to be more difficult for Linarra if you're Dax, right? You would like some symmetry in the breakdown. And I think that's doubly hurtful, that not only has Lanara chosen to leave, she does not seem as affected as DAX, and that's hard. Yeah, I think that's like the hardest part of it, really.

And this is such a great DAX episode because we see her make like an affirmative explicit choice to follow her heart. And when that blows up in her face, it is so much more painful for that, you know. How many more years will it take before that planet reappears with that one guy she was in love with last time? I think she's got two, two irons in the fire. Like maybe, maybe, thrill society will change in less time

than it takes for that planet to reappear. And she'll have some options. Wow. In the decades to come. That would be great. Morning. Morning. Morning.

Steve, sweet. Morning. Morning. Morning. Morning. Morning. You need everybody more and stop. Have a time. Did you like the episode, Adam? I was not expecting this. Like, I was stepping up to this episode,

thinking that this would just be another deep space nine episode. And what I got instead was an important deep space nine episode, you know? I don't feel like this one gets mentioned when people talk about the list of best episodes of Star Trek. Yeah. Unfairly.

I think this is a great episode of Star Trek. I think so too. So much of science fiction, you know in many ways the furthest frontier ban is the heart. But by making that flip comment, what I'm really trying to say is like you don't, you rarely see severe romantic emotional trauma to someone in science fiction or an unrecoited love and to see it so beautifully expressed and painfully expressed, like I think that's amazing. And this was an episode that that was painful in those ways. Yeah. And in ways that don't diminish its science fictionness at all. Right, and that's such an amazing magic trick for the episode to have performed.

Speaking of an episode that started with a magic trick, like this really did do a fine job of that. Yeah, I agree with everything you said. It's a great episode and an important one. Yeah, no priority when message is this week because it is week two of MaxFundrive 2019. Hey Adam. What's happened?

Did you find yourself a drunk Shimoda? I don't. Drunk Shimoda! Yeah, I think I'm gonna put Warf back up on the board. Wow. For that description of what his dreams are like to, let's be honest, a couple of strangers and Kira like he goes there on on strangers in front of Kira in a really fun way Yeah, and I thought that was this scene could have gone on for another minute

I would have been totally you do it. Yeah, it was perfect perfectly done For his emotionally heavy as an episode as it was this episode felt fairly target rich with drunk shimotas. Yeah. My drunk shimota is Dr. Julian Bashir. And it's actually the same scene as your drunk shimota when Dax and Conor at the buffet and it is mentioned that the entire room is looking at them. It cuts back to the rest of the room and the uncharacteristically the party goers have gathered kind of away from the food

which I've never seen in my entire life. Nope. But everybody is in fact kind of looking at them. And notably, Bashir is, and he's the only person seated. There's one seat in the room, and he's just taking a seat and angled it so that he can watch texts and con interact. Like as a fucking show. So he's like Arnold Schwarzenegger and true lies. Yeah.

Like, he's even sitting kind of like that. Like, he's got his legs kind of like, kind of like, spayed out. It's like, what are you doing, Bashir, if this is your friend? When you reach for the Hasprat, do it, Dawson Moe. Do it very slowly. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha I should define that on like, on streaming the other day. That movie is not available for, for internet anywhere I could find.

What? Yeah. That movie is so much fun. It's a weird fun movie. I haven't seen that in a long time, but I, I'm due for a rewatch. Yeah. Stick that in the bonus feed bin. Oh, that would be fun.

A greatest gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all. FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Sherry Reembarishment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info.

That's greatestgentour.com for dates and ticketing information for the Share Your Embarrassment Tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan and Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We got stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweirds.

Pat Noswald. Can I get a ball-rock burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps are already open. Just pull it out.

Give Jordan Jesse Goatry. Being smart is hard, be dumb instead. Oh, rats, hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks. But I'm hearing we need to get on this arc.

We've got to get on the arc. It is about terrain, got us about to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans. We're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different.

Have you heard of Ono Ross and Kerry? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boat. We came two by two. What do you think?

O'Neil Ross and Kerry, available on MaximumFun.org. Got it, got it, got it, got that, got that gold brush, That got that, got that, got that gold brush, That got the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right, the right our Yamaxes! Ben, what are we have coming up on the next episode? Next episode is season 4, episode 6, Starship Down. A fierce battle with the Gem Hedar leaves the defiant, trapped in a planet's volatile atmosphere. Oh boy.

The defiant sure seems like, uh, maybe you should rename the Defiant The O'Brien. Ha ha ha. Given all the bad things that keep happening to it. Yeah. Well, Adam, we always play a game at the end of every episode. It's the game of buttholes, the will of the prophets. Do you want to see if we will be doing this following episode in any particular type of way? I do, Ben. We're currently on square 82, the no notes cut in the nebula square, where 1, 2, 3, 4,

5, squares ahead is a space butthole, which would take us all the way back down to square 34. It would be a real kick in the junk. Yeah, but it would take us to a measure of a man episode, which is a fun type. It feels like we've been getting types of episodes a lot lately. Yeah, I mean it's in availability heuristic, but I feel the same way. You're required to learn as you play, roll. Alright, I've got a, got the bone in my hand bin. Oh

You have a handsome bone Adam Thank you, okay, here we go Oh, I rolled a six Hardly wow big roll You're usually rolling ones. I know. At a land of sun square 88, just one pass that space butthole. Holy Mackerel.

Yeah. Galucky there, Ben. Wow. And a regular old episode for us. A regular app. I think that's good. I'm looking forward to recovering from an excellent maximum fund drive

with a nice reg app. You mean both. Well, Adam, we should say thanks to everybody that has supported during this drive. You have until the 29th to support, but you should really do it right now at maximumfund.org slash donate. It's one of those things where if you don't do it while you're thinking about it, you'll forget and then you won't do it. And then everybody will think less of you.

Yeah, you don't want to feel like that, right? No, you don't want to feel bad, do you? You want to feel good and you want to get gifts. And that's why you got to macamamfund.org slash donate. If it's not in the budget for you, that's totally fine. You can support us in lots of other ways. Go to your pod catcher of choice and leave us a nice review. Those reviews help our shows. Visibility help us grow the audience and the pool of potential people who can cover

your portion of the show with their monthly contributions, so we really appreciate the reviews as well. We got to thank some people who make the show possible, Ben, it's not just you and me, it's a village, it's a village of nerds. It takes a village of nerds. Hehehehe. Talking specifically about people like Adam Ragusew, we brought him up earlier as the composer of music for our donor feed episode. He does great work there and he also makes the interstitial music for this very show. He made the Kirk song, which is his version of the Picard song for our greatest Gen Con tour last year.

And that episode is also in the donor feed, something I'm very proud of. Did you know that custom artwork is made for this show every week by two people, Ben? That's true. I mean, it's by more than two people, but two people are committed to doing it on a weekly basis. Right. Many people have created art for the show for some reason.

Two people continue to do it weekend and week out. I'm talking of course about Bill Tilly who makes the trading cards about every episode that we do and JJ Lendle who makes a movie style poster and puts it out on Twitter every Sunday night before our Monday app gets people excited. I'm always delighted at both of those. I really fun to look at. We should thank Dark Materia

who made the original theme music for our show. And we should thank all of the great folks at MaximumFund.org who really put their heart and soul into this work. They do so much to support our show. And it's a very complicated thing, like managing all the P1s and putting them in calendars and stuff. And there's a room full of people up in a tall building in Los Angeles that work hard every day to make sure that the ground is cleared for us to just make a silly podcast and not have to worry too much

about the business side of it. So we really appreciate them. Check out the other shows on the network. And you'll have to call again. of it, so we really appreciate them. Check out the other shows on the network. And you know, like this show is a dream come true for us, you know. It's something that I think that we both really liked the idea of doing something with comedy in our careers and never really felt like we had a way to get there. I certainly, you know, I took like a lot of classes at UCB over the years and never quite felt like I wanted to do improv and I never, you know, I love stand-up but I've never felt drawn to it. And you were uncomfortable with male nudity. That's why you'd never succeeded at UCB band. Yeah, that was part of it.

But you know meeting you and getting getting to do this with you every week has been a sincere joy in my life and the fact that anybody else cares about it at all. It's a miracle that this show means a lot to a lot of people. And that is a real privilege, like the idea that so many friends of DeSero are out there waiting for this show to come out every week. So I think one of the things I love the most about the Max-Fundre is a nice time to pause and reflect about how lucky we are to get to do this for all of you, and especially that so many of you have chosen to step up and support what we do as silly as it is. Well, Pope Ben, I couldn't put it any better myself. With that, we'll be back at you next time with another great episode of Star Trek Deep Space 9. An episode of the greatest generation Deep Space 9, which looks to be cooking in the upper atmosphere. Like so much barbecue.

Oh, so it's kind of going slow and low yeah yeah little d little d's you're gonna want to cook a little d low and slow You'll be caught up in you until you've been caught. Make it sound. Make it sound. You'll be caught up, caught up, caught up, caught up. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist-owned, audience supported.