The Greatest Generation - You Don't Name The Cow (S5E23)

Episode Date: March 27, 2017

When an away team finds the sad, sole survivor of a crashed Borgs ship, the Enterprise crew re-thinks whether or not they want to put an offer down on a property. But after Dr. Crusher nurses him back to health, Geordi develops feelings for him, which is problematic for a variety of reasons. What is Guinan's security clearance? How honest should Geordi's Tinder profile be? What is the "King Fly"? It's the episode that has an asterisks next to it in the record book!

Priority 1 message from Starfleet coming in on Secured Channel. Hey friends of Disodo. Before today's episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the historic labor actions being taken by writers and actors in the American Film and Television industry. If you're a fan of the work done by the people who make Star Trek, we hope you'll join us in standing in solidarity with the folks who actually bring these adventures to life. Over the past several years, the AMPTP, the organization that represents the American Film and Television Production Studios, have reduced the profit from movies and TV going to workers. And in so doing,

they've attempted to weaken the labor unions that represent those workers. They wouldn't even engage the unions on many issues in their negotiations. And so a strike was the only course of action to take. Adam, Wendy and I have been having a lot of internal discussions about how best to stand with the unions and we are continuing those conversations in a dynamic situation. We're doing our best to understand where the picket lines are in these digital spaces,

and we would never intentionally cross one. With the information we have, we feel like we can do more good talking about and supporting the strike and continuing our show as planned. We'll keep you informed about what all this means for greatest trek specifically. Today we're making a contribution to the Entertainment Community Fund. This fund exists to help all the people whose livelihoods have been put on hold because the AMPTP refuses to negotiate

in good faith with the unions. It provides financial support for writers, actors, and all the thousands of laborers who make the shows that we talk about here and without whom we wouldn't have Star Trek to cast pot about. Those folks are all out of work because billionaires, company shareholders, and the executives of these companies don't want to compromise on the length of their yachts. We hope you'll join us in supporting entertainment workers in a challenging time, especially after they've already endured several years of challenges brought on by the pandemic

and season two of Star Trek Picard. We've set up a page where you can also contribute. It's at friendsofdecotoforlabor.com. That's friendsofdececoto for Labor.com. That's FriendsOfDecoto for Labor.com. Link in the episode description. Okay, now let's get on with the show. Here's to the finest crew in Star Trek Podcast by two guys who are a little bit embarrassed to have a Star Trek podcast. And one of the guys has a sinus infection. I'm that guy, Adam Pryanaka. I'm the guy that does not have a sinus infection.

In your face, Adam, I'm Ben Harrison. I mean a sinus infection in your face, Adam. I'm Ben Harrison. I mean, literally in your face. It's literally that's where it is. And now, the consequences, I think it makes my voice sound better, but also makes me feel worse. I'm hopped up on suburban speed balls, so I should be able to get through this epno problem. Oh yeah, they're gonna be asterisk by all these episodes because you're using PEDs. Yeah, I don't think they're gonna give us the record anymore. Yeah, we're gonna be taking off the podium, shamed.

be taking off the podium, shamed. We're gonna have our swords broken over the knee. Of a superior officer, all the brass ripped off of our uniforms. What do you think would happen if regular people had access to sports PEDs? It would be kind of great, right? No more sick days. Be feeling great all the time.

I drove up to Max Funcon East last year with Joel Kim Booster, a very funny standup comedian. And he was telling you about shooting a pilot that he wrote for himself. And he got a terrible cold like two days before they were gonna start shooting. He showed up on set the first day of the shoot and they had like an on-set doctor shoot him full of steroids.

And he was like, yeah, and then I was like fine for all of the shoot days. He would just give me a shot in the morning and I felt great. And then afterward it came down on me like a ton of bricks. That is amazing. I had no idea that that was even possible. Like, because you always hear like, oh, Kobe played this game with the flu or whatever. And like how?

Because when I get the flu, I'm useless. It's amazing. I guess you get what you pay for or what you're willing to pay for. Yeah, I need to, I need some Beverly Crusher action in my life. Sounds like you do too. Private doctor? Yeah.

Who makes house calls? Yeah, ships physician. Sounds great. Chief medical officer. Bunch of wigs. Pfft. Pfft. Pfft.

A really envy-inducing wig collection. Pfft. A really envy-inducing wig collection. Like the sort of wig collection that would typically turn you off from, you know, making that person your doctor in any other context. This time it's a total value added situation. Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen my doctor in a long time. Have you? Are you a regular doctor person? I'm not really, and I've had about six different

health insurance situations in the last two years. Yeah. Because like my wife's job changed, and then my job changed, then I lost my job, and then she put me back on, you know, it's just like we've been juggling health insurance and it's always like a little unclear whether I'm even eligible to see a doctor. So mostly I just don't even do it. I think the most important thing, even more important than our own

health, is a tax break for rich people. So hopefully, hopefully that's coming. It'll make me feel a lot better personally. Uh-huh. Yeah, because Because you know that the people who earned it got it right. Yeah, it's it's the Kobe Bryant's who play with the flu They need that more than I do. Yeah Well Adam the doctor features in pretty heavily in this episode. Do you want to get into it? I sure do features in pretty heavily in this episode. Do you want to get into it? I sure do. Ben, it's season five. It's episode 23.

That's Michael Jordan's number. Whoa. Speaking of the flu game. It's I-Borg. This is becoming a speech. You're the captain, sir. Very entitled. Mm.

I'm entitled to ramble on about something everyone knows. And Ben, this episode starts with the entrepreneur charting an area of space for colonization, not unlike a family looking at houses and a new neighborhood, but unfortunately, there are others putting offers on these houses. Yeah, they might not be the only bid. Yeah.

So they're not gonna get some of. Yeah. So they're going to they're not going to get some of the some of the improvements they want the previous owner to make before they move in. A little bit of a bidding war here. Yeah, makes it much harder to put the house into escrow until you've determined whether there's termite damage or not. So yeah, they're they're they're looking at this star system. It's like kind of a neighborhood on the come-up, you know? It's like being a rough neighborhood, but maybe they're looking to gentrify. It feels like the sort of mission they should do all the time. Yeah, got to find new planets to put more humans on.

Yeah, let's find more places to ruin. And the star, I guess, in this system is like pretty off the hook, right? It's making for quite a bit of interference, but not so much that they don't pick up a signal that they surmise maybe a distress signal. There's only one thing more interesting to the enterprise crew than a mystery and that is a distress signal. Yeah, so they pull up to this planet and they're pretty much set that they're going to be doing some rescuizing. So they put together an away team

that includes a medical crew and Wurf and Riker. I don't feel like we've gotten this configuration very often. Even though it kind of seems like the best configuration. Yeah. Riker always, Wurf almost always, and then doctor should be there, like 90% of the time I'd say. It makes me like why why is it a why is the chief medical officer going down on this?

Yeah, shouldn't shouldn't there be like some second string doctors that can handle these kinds of situations? You know, Ogawa is just like chomping at the bit to get on these missions. Like, you know, give me some lines. Yeah. Do you think she's like a nurse, nurse practitioner or like a physician's assistant? Like, what do you think? Nurse Ogawa's level of training is. Or did she just like take one of those online courses about, do you want to work in a doctor's world? I, I couldn't even guess, Ben. I mean, she seems to know what the fuck is going on, like she assists in surgeries and stuff, so she must have something.

I think this is pretty standard in the medical community, like the doctors have very little interaction with the patients. It's actually the nurses that do all the heavy lifting. That do all of that. So one could argue if if times haven't changed too severely that that Ogawa is maybe maybe more appropriate for a mission like this. But but then again Adam maybe chief of Brian heard his shoulder again. So I was kayaking on the holiday again. They've really spread themselves thin. They haven't sent down just a random on an away mission in a long time and I feel like they just know better now. Like we're only going to send down senior staff because anytime we include someone else they die.

This is a lesson. Yeah, they beam down to this planet and it's the styrofoamiest planet we've seen since like season two, I want to say. They beam down to that aisle in Michaels, the craft store. Yeah, yeah, it's a. It's a planet science project. Right, there's a lot of, there's a lot of poppy, mashe, there's a lot of bad fake snow all over the place. It's sort of like LV426,

except for there aren't enough environmental effects taking place to disguise how bad it is. Yeah, it's pretty rugged and not in a good way. The ship that they discover is like a mini-borg cube and there's a piece of wreckage on the ground and they like flip it off and they're lying there under it, struggling for life is a young, you know, 20-something-borg. He's almost indistinguishable from like a goth kid from when we went to high school. So I feel like they really got to roll him around a little bit to see all the implants and stuff.

Yeah. Like they hear a faint sound of the cure, like underneath the wreckage that gets a little louder as they get nearer. On-step podcasting yourself, one of their favorite joke premises they'll return to is Goths in situations that it's not possible to be that gothy in, like walking around in the summer and having to wear shorts because it's too hot to be a Goth.

Yeah. I feel like this board is like really trying to keep it real. Life is pain. Life is only pain. He's in the wrong place, it's a wrong time. He really needs to put on like a can of the goose jacket. It's got to be a disappointment that they're charting this system for colonization.

They're second place on this moon. And not only are they second place, the fucking Goth family is moving in. There goes the neighborhood. The reveal of this of this board is sufficiently tense to to throw to title sequence. And we come back and Raker is like phoning it up to the boss. Remember those guys that kidnapped you and turned you into one of them? Well, one survivor. It's a Borg, male, adolescent, it's badly hurt. And at this point Picard beams up the away team, destroys the site from orbit and they

get the fuck out. Yeah, it's that newcom from orbit moment, that we always wanted in aliens, right? It's the only way to be sure. Did you like this episode, Ben? I did. I mean, it's another one of those ones where they really nip it at the bud. What I like about this episode is that Picard does exactly what he should do, which is and the threat immediately, and and look out for the safety of his crew and the rest of the galaxy. It's like, because the one thing that you can't do is fuck around with the borgs.

Fuckin' hey! It's like that that moment in like early spring when you see like a really big fly in your house. If you can get that fly, they like a really big fly in your house. If you can get that fly, there are gonna be less flies in your house the rest of the summer, because that's the one that's in there like laying eggs and like laying the groundwork, you know. That's the king fly. That's the king fly. This episode only works for you if you believe cards reasoning from here on out and I'm just not sure I do. So Picard feels interested in the idea of bugging out and it's almost like Beverly climbs on top of Riker's back and speaks into his communicator,

and it's like, no, no, no, no, no, we got a sick one here. I got to heal the sick. It's what I do. And unfortunately, I can't do that down here with a medical tricorder. We got to get him up to the ship. This puts the pivot on Picard. What's he gonna do?

Incredibly intense push it on Picard when he gets this news. Yeah. And Patrick Stewart really sells this moment because he is being torn in a million directions. Like he is terrified of the Borgs is feeling a little bit vengeful toward the borgs, but also really respects the doctor and Her needs, but also doesn't want to like Just put the ship in danger. I mean, it's it's a bit of a ridiculous Conflict but somehow Patrick's to hurt makes it really work Yeah, if he's unable for some reason to sell this the whole thing falls apart. It's a house of cards that comes tumbling down. Here's another angle that I wanted to bring up

with you before we move on, which is. Yeah, let's hang out in the first three minutes of the episode, Adam. Let's never get out of it. I'm here to stay. We're never leaving here. Beverly and Picard are supposed to be best friends. Beverly is supposed to ostensibly love him. Why would she hurt him like this? She's choosing duty over her affection and care for her best friend. When it would be very easy and no less noble for her to

euthanize the Borg on the planet, nuke the site for morbid and get out of the neighborhood. She just take that oath to do no harm. So doing some harm would probably technically be a violation. You know what she should do is tag out and tag in the Pat Sage Act doctor. Sage Act Doctor'd get down there and do some experimental shit on the borgs. Just leave her down there, be great. Yeah, it should be like, I've been working on a new technique for taking these implants out by hand. Rip. Yeah, yeah, and so that was in my mind for the rest of the episode too.

Like, it definitely shows the limitations of a friendship slash love to see how Beverly conducts herself for the rest of the episode here. So the way they deal with this is they erect a subspace damping field in the brig. They beam this board up to the brig and they're like doing whatever medical stuff to bring them back from the brink that they need to do. They've got them laying on a couple of saw horses. Did you see that? Yeah.

Now when you build in a saw horse, you're going to want to start with a sturdy base. I recommend a couple of cell horses. The screw to a sheet of plywood. That's right, Norm. The best way to achieve the optimal angle is to lay a two-by-floor in a miter box and use a hacksaw to cut a 45 degree angle and then bring the two joints together. to cut a 45 degree angle and then bring the two joints together. You'll notice I'm using a wood screw with a torque spit. That way it'll be harder to screw head. And your patient will be fully supported. If you use the proper capillary techniques,

your medical saw horse will last your family for generations At first Beverly is like yeah beam this guy up to the six bay we'll get to work on them there and To Picard's credit he pushes back on the super hard He's like look Bev if you want him up on the ship we're putting him in the brig right you can do your doctrine in there I mean I sort of wonder if Picard's willingness to get this board on board is also partly couched in his vengeance plan. Like, he may not have it fully formed in his head, but maybe realizes there's an opportunity here that he like hasn't quite articulated to himself

because like pretty quickly they have this McLaughlin group. He's like, all right, here's the deal. We're gonna pump this guy full of some kind of computer virus that will like completely disable the system when we send him back to the collective. This is perfect. This is the first time we've ever been in a position to go on the offensive against these assholes.

Data's like, if we get him to open up a web browser to a weird porn site, and then click on a bunch of ads, the ads will never stop populating. Yeah, we need to convince him that his flash player needs updating and that this site is how you get the new version of flash play He won't be able to close all the windows before his co-workers arrive Yeah, there's no switch into a spreadsheet when this start when this shit starts popping up Yeah, I think you're right like he like I think Picard knows that this is an opportunity to strike back at the

Borgs, but he isn't sure immediately how best to do that until this McLaughlin group pops out. So he gets everybody kind of involved with this plan, but the doctor is like, we're talking about annihilating an entire race. She feels a little bit deceived. She brought this guy up here to save his life, and now they are talking about using him to prosecute a genocide. She makes a good case, like, I guess. I mean, we...

It's tough, right? Because... Because genocide is bad, I think we can agree with that. Okay. Yeah. But against, I guess it depends on if your definition of the Borgs is one thing or billions of things. Right, and that's totally where they come down on this. Like, this is like, I think a lot of people

that don't like the first contact movie don't like it for this reason. Picard is essentially recast his action hero who is on this killing rampage to stop the borgs. There are people that are like, no, he's the cerebral hero that is, you know, everything is about like striking a perfect solomonic moral balance, and it's not about running around with a Tommy gun mulling people down. Patrick Stewart was fucking ripped in that movie.

Yeah, Jordy Arms. I know totally. But this episode is all about like how conflicted he is about this, like he's really fucked up behind his Borg's experience,. I don't think that we've really gotten to explore that much since the Brothers episode, right? Yeah. This is the episode where Picard's brain is that Tommy gun, right? As soon as the Borg is beamed on board, the rest of the crew is like, I wonder what Picard's gonna do.

And like the moment it happens, Picard walks onto the bridge, goes directly into his ready room, and then data does this thing to Troy, which is like a nonverbal, are you gonna take care of this? Sort of gesture, like if you've got time to lean, you've got time to clean.

Yeah, like I know you humans have feelings so maybe like even data knows grab a mop and bucket Troy go see mop that shit up and and Picard does that thing where he's like no I'm fine you got nothing to do here I'll be okay You get nothing to do here, I'll be okay. And Troy doesn't believe this for a second, and yet backs out of the ready room, and leaves him alone. And that's really like the B story here, the B story's Picard's brains.

Mm-hmm. It's a crazy, crazy one with soft, beaty face. Are you gone finding within yourself? Just stand up, tell the truth. You don't deserve the way I'm back. The Uniball. He really gets into this with Gainin. They're having, they're fighting swords down in one of the, in one of the cargo bays, I guess.

And they, this looks like a, like some pretty, like, pretty authentic fencing. I mean, I've only seen fencing a few times on the Olympics, but it seems like they actually know what the fuck they're doing. Yeah. Like whooping and fucking fence apparently. And it's gotta be them because they're wearing masks. Yeah, definitely.

They do a really interesting thing here in their conversation. Guidance making the case that like a very strong case for the craziness that is keeping a borg's on their ship. And in the first fight, the first fencing fight, Picard wins. Picard just sort of, Picard does that thing that everyone loves, which is coaches and other person afterwards about what they did in their loss. He's like, Gain and let me m in sprained a couple of fencing tactics to you. Today, you were dropping your foil. You got better in the inside.

When they're having the first conversation about the Borgs, the deep background is very deep. There's like an open doorway and like, sort of a wide open space, but I don't know if you noticed this. The second time they fight and Gynon makes the case that someone faking an injury leaves you open to losing. They flip the line there and the wall is far closer to them.

There are no exits or entrances. It's like a totally different set up here. They kind of... And I thought that served to underscore both of their positions in this conversation. That's an interesting point. Yeah, they kind of subconsciously box these characters in. Yeah. It's an interesting position for Gynon to take because Gynon is this very nurturing character.

She really, you know, believes in the humanity of the characters that come on board and is very open to being surprised by people and she has a 100% vengeful attitude toward the Borgs. Whoopi Goldberg does a really great thing, I think throughout her time on the show, which is most of the time she is great and fun and like a true counselor to people, but she has this flash in her eyes whenever she talks about the borgs, that is so dark. Yeah, she really sells the shit out of the way she feels about them. And she's basically counseling the captain in the scene. Don't let the doctor talk you into going any softer than you already have, because you've

already made a big mistake. Yeah. So they get this board into the room where you would make a law or deprogram a locutus. Yeah. Whatever that room is. And it's the doctor in Jordy and they're like working on fixing something about him. And they're having like a back and forth,

and they decide that they need to name him. So they're like going around the horn. I'm Beverly, I'm Jordy, and you... And then Jordy says, maybe the dumbest line that Jordy says in the entire series. I don't know when I'm gonna... That's it. Hugh.

Yeah. Why? It's like a pretty good episode. This is a bad scene. Yeah, it really is. I mean, I guess they needed to name him, like they needed to have that moment where they humanize the Borg. We are huge.

This is after they've decided to use him as a genocidal weapon. And like any farmer will tell you, when you've decided to turn a cow into a genocidal weapon, you don't name the cow. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, pretty rough. Yeah.

And at this point, the, the Borg's exterior begins to crack a little bit. Like, up until now he's been pretty much an automaton. But the hue name is sort of the beginning of his individuality. And he starts asking a bunch of childish questions. Just to make life more miserable for the conformist. individuality. And he starts asking a bunch of childish questions, and he starts having a personality, and he ingratiates himself with Jordy especially, and Beverly also. And so Jordy is like dealing with the kind of heaviness of this. And so, he goes down to 10 forward and he's kind of kicking it to Gainin about this,

which is perhaps a pretty insensitive thing for him to do. Like, hey, Gainin, I know that Borg's killed almost everybody you've ever loved. Let me tell you about how I feel some positive feelings start this one. Yeah, it's another instance where Jordi just can't really read his audience in a normal way. Like, come on man, that is not nice. Like, you don't need to be able to see someone's facial expressions to know who you shouldn't talk to about this stuff Yeah, this conversation sort of leads to him in vying against Guy and to go like see if she can make a Connection with this board. Why don't you go on talk to him? It might not be so clear cut then she reacts really badly to it and and

He goes like why don't you just go listen to him, Gainon? Isn't that what you do best? I wonder what sort of security clearance Gainon has. This is the most dangerous thing that they've had on the ship, maybe ever, and Gainon can walk into the brig and talk to it. Yeah. She changes to a teal costume for this. This is the same ship that didn't put a lock on the cargo bay when they were transporting that That gift woman for the wedding. Yeah, that slave babe. Yeah Yeah, you know another another time that I would love to hear worst thoughts on why that's okay

Yeah, so she has that moment in the prison where she puts her hand on the glass and he puts his hand on the glass and they have a real moment. This is after he has sort of turned the corner into becoming an individual. Yeah. He starts understanding that not everyone

wants to be assimilated, not if it wants to be like him. Everyone's just walking around like a bunch of conformists. At one time I went to a film with my parents. It was an Australian film. I can't remember what the name of it was, but there was that prison scene where a woman comes to visit her boyfriend and jail or something. And I'm sitting like in between my mom and dad. I'm probably like 15 or 16 years old. And the scene ends not with them putting their hands against the glass, but with her reaching into her skirt

and wiping some vaginal secretions on the glass. One of the most horrifying experiences of my entire life was sitting in a theater in between my parents. Your dad like throws an elbow at you like eh? Eh? How about that? Hey! He like flips up his glasses a couple times like this wins. Yeah.

That would be an inappropriate thing for aynon to do in the workplace here. And it would probably crackle like hell if she were to do it. Oh yeah, because of that. Get that force field up. Energy field, it's not glass with chicken wire running through it. So Gynon at the end of this scene sort of decides that he's not a Borg's anymore? Right, because he kind of is like, I think that this is the other scene that sort of strains credulity in this episode.

It's the naming him seen in this scene because in this scene he's like, essentially doing si-apps on her. He's like, I'm really lonely. Like, don't, like, you have to sympathize with me because I feel lonely in the same way that you feel lonely. This is the conflict where a person hates all of a certain type of people,

except for the one that they meet and they like. Yeah. Like, it doesn't, I don't believe it changes her position on hating the Borgs, but this one individual is somehow not as bad as the rest to get in. And she makes the case to Picard. Get in that Austin Powers stance on tolerance. There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

And God, Picard has to be shocked as hell when the door to his quarters opens and Gainin is there. She's like, hey, nice deep V buddy. Yeah, Picard's enjoying a fine scotch and a deep V and a book before bed. I'm glad he's not sleeping in his ready room anymore. Yeah, he's not pulling those all nighters. Yeah.

He's taking care of himself at him. He's doing some self care because he's under some real significant stress surrounding this board situation. They've got a board ship like on long range sensors. It's approaching the system and they're pretty sure that the Borgs can't see them yet, but they are, you know, the pressure is starting to mount. What are they going to do? And Guy Nen is hidden here to be like, hey, remember that should I said, I'm going to say the opposite now.

The implication is that by keeping you around, they're just going to, they're never going to stop looking for him. So the end game is coming. They need to decide what to do with him. Because keeping him around is going to be profoundly dangerous. Yeah. And the card is shocked as hell that Gynon would have this position now. Gynon's like, I don't think he's a Borgs anymore.

I think he's a person. And I think you need to rethink this whole genocide thing. I mean, it's an interesting case. It's, she's basically saying, you're talking about killing an entire race, but you haven't looked at this guy that you're gonna use to do it in the eye

and really talk to him. Right. Yeah, it's tough. Like if only Captain Picard had someone's counsel about doing genocide. Like can you think of a character who has actually gone through with that kind of plan Ben? Gaped and be carried. I knew that you and your crew have mostly

talked to me about one aspect of my character that being my thriving real-girl business. But I wasn't always in this line of work, Gaped Picard. I switched careers late in late after that being my thriving real-girl business. But... I wish I know who's in this line of work, Kept in Picard. I switched careers late in life. But you should also know I'm a... I'm a subject matter expert on genocide. If you'd like I can come on board and give you a PowerPoint presentation

about killing the Hushnack. You'll find it. It is very graphic heavy. I'm now one of those presenters that just reads the slides. I don't do a Lord's Lestic style, all text presentation. It's not it's not punchy with jokes. It's more, it's more, you know, photo of bulldozer pushing bodies into a mass grave kind of situation. You wouldn't think a doubt would need a bulldozer, but it turns out while I am all powerful and capable of killing all who snuck everywhere, the cleanup was a real bitch and took a lot of logistics.

It's just something you're're gonna need to think about. I'm kind of a stickler for efficiency. I'm a man of special conscience when it came to cleaning up after oneself. Yeah. And so Picard has to make this decision alone. But before he does, well, yeah, I mean, let's talk about the fact that he makes it alone. Like this would be a classic time to talk to the admirals, right? There is no command, command decision being made here. This is entirely being sorted out within the command structure of the entrepreneur.

Like shouldn't he phone up the bosses? This is insane to me. And I was thinking this the whole time. Like admiralty gets all up in his business on the most benign ship. And the most significant threat has returned. And Picard's like, I'm gonna go solo on this. He doesn't even blow a call in.

It's like, it's like like he's yelling no time for backup as he slides over the hood of a previa. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And it sort of makes sense that in first contact, the federation's like, no, you guys stay out there. I think we're gonna handle this one.

Yeah. You have proved yourself untrustworthy. the Federation's like no you guys stay out there. I think we're gonna handle this one. Yeah You have you have proved yourself untrustworthy one too many times on this issue. Yeah Because you know what the Federation would tell them. Yeah, nuke the site from orbit get the fuck out Fuckin' hey or you seem to do the genocide great idea like stop waffling on it. Yeah Yeah, we've got a we've got an internet explorer, 1995 version. We're going to boot them up with. It is super buggy. We have not patched this at all. So, Guy Nintoxim into giving you a second chance. He comes to the ready room and Picard asks the dustbuster jack that comes with him

to give them some privacy and they have a chat and Picard goes into low Q-dismode. Picard the Borg! Oh no! And it's a little ambiguous whether he's doing this as kind of a ruse to draw something out of you or if it kind of happens automatically, like when he's in the presence of a borg, he kind of can't help but become that character. I am the cutest of Borg. I thought it was a pretty shrewd form of manipulation for him,

because he recognizes him right away. Yeah. Dude! I haven't seen you in a while! What is up? Man, he meets us out for like a four-step handshake with like a bunch of gears and wires and stuff, and Picard leaves him hanging.

What was the last time we saw each other? Like Wolf through five-nine? This is amazing. What are you doing here, dude? Man, we killed so many people with a wolf. That's what we call it. So, yeah, so Hugh is like really confused because, because Locutus is saying, identify yourself and he's like,

I'm Hugh and he's like, that's not a proper board designation. But cards like, what's your employee ID number? Yeah, where's your badge? And Hugh starts to explain to Locutus that resistance may or may not, in fact, be futile and that Jordan must not be assimilated. And that's not necessarily as irrelevant as they once may have thought. Yeah, it's another instance where Jordy is best friends with another robot.

Jordy really has a way of getting under the skin of emotionless droids, doesn't he? Yeah, he sure does. They fucking love him. It's that light psychopathy in Jordy, that kind of like inability to empathize with others. God, that would be a terrible last line in a Tinder profile, wouldn't it? Interesting, Clue, hiking, biking, and light psychopathy.

Picard presses and presses and presses you on the idea of assimilating the ship and assimilating the federation and going on with the Borg mission that they both know is their goal. And Hugh pushes back. He's like, no, I'm not going to help you. Like, I will resist myself this mission. You can do it, but you're going to do it without me. And Picard is blown away by this. He's like, you have gone

AWOL soldier. And I believe we cut from here into the conference room. And Picard shares a new decision. Yeah, this is the the Big MacLaughlin group. Issue a walk when he announces that I want other options. The computer virus plan is going on the back burner. He's like, maybe our love and our relationship can be the virus. You ever think of that? Yeah, and they're like, God, I thought it was a little smoky in here. I didn't realize Rostep a card was back.

He really swings wildly from lawyer to Rostra. It's true. Or lawyer to hippie. He's like you guys. He's been around us for a couple of weeks. And I think he really digs how we live. Our vibe has made like a big impression on him, man. If you think about it as hard as grown,

like four sizes bigger just by being around us. I let him puff on some of that chiba and it just seemed to mellow him out you know. He came on board all stiff and now he's like much cooler and more chill. Like we joke about that being the plan but that's the plan. Yeah that's totally totally the plan. Where is the like- That's totally the plan. Where is the dissenting opinion in this room? Like, Wurf hasn't had the moment with you where his heart melts and sees him as an individual.

I feel like Wurf should ride for the federation and should be like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? Like, this guy is a mortal threat to everyone. Like, let's, let's vest him up and send him back. Like, no one defends the original plan. And I feel like it's okay to have a dissenting opinion there and to have that person overridden, but that doesn't happen. Everyone is sort of in lockstep with this sort of pseudo idea

that may or may not work. I think Jordi even says, like, they're gonna read his memory, they're gonna absorb it, and then they're gonna turn him back to the collective. That's gonna happen. It's just a matter of, it's the question of whether or not the board collective does anything with this new individuality, and they aren't really sure

if they will, but it's a chance that they can live with. And that's the difference. Well, it's one of those scenes in Star Trek where they're just talking through a big idea. There isn't a disagreement or any subtext. They're just wrapping their minds around this. It's just world building, essentially. And it's interesting that it comes like,

it's essentially the climactic moment of the episode. Yeah, there is not much to come after this. Picard changing his mind is the climax. And then they tell you, like, you know, dude, we're going to send you back to your family if you want. Like, it's up to you though, if you want to come with us, that's cool. Like, we'll take that risk. We know it's risky.

And he's like, no, I got to go back. And in this scene, Hugh is the most rational actor of anyone. Right. He makes a pretty heroic choice here. Yeah, he's like, look, if I stay on the enterprise, they're never going to stop looking for me. Like, I'm going to my friend Jordy in danger by being here, and that's wrong. Instead, I'm gonna go back and risk being turned back

into an Atalmaton, and I know that would suck, but at least my friends would be safe. And that's the biggest best decision that anyone's made on the episode. It comes from you. Mm-hmm. I am a beautiful, very beautiful light. best decision that anyone's made on the episode. It comes from Hugh. Mhm. I am a beautiful,

there are four lights. They beam him and Jordy down. Jordy wants to kind of, you know, bid his new buddy goodbye and due to their past experiences with the Borgs, they know that this is a terrible risk he's taking. So they beam down to shitty LV426 and Hugh goes and takes up a position next to his crashed shuttle and

some Borg's beam down they like go collect some some Giga's off of his fallen comrades and One of those comrades has an exposed brain. Did you see that? Yeah, that was really gross. Yeah, that's grosser than they typically get on this show. Yeah, because it had like some blood, you know? Yeah, there's...

This crash site is really splattery. It's a fucking mess. New guys in the corner, Bukin is gutshot. RAAAARGH! RAAARGH! If these were human beings, I don't think they could show that level of gore. Right. Yeah, I guess not. It's probably like a standards and practices thing. Like, they're gray enough that a little bit of blood is not a big problem.

I bet it's a lot like, in Star Trek 6, how they had to make the blood pink to keep the PG rating. Like did you know that that was the reason that Klingon blood was pink? Yeah. Is because if it were red, it would have popped the rating. I like the continuity of that, and I think it's such a shame that Klingon blood is red in all other contexts. Yeah.

Yeah. I wish, I think it'd be fucking hilarious if every time a Klingon took a bat left to the chest, a bunch of Pepto Bismal poured out of him. Yeah. If Romulan blood can be green, why can't Klingon blood be pink? That's all I'm saying. Well this ends on a pretty touching moment where the Borgs are beaming back up to their ship and

Hugh turns at the last moment to look at Jordy and Jordy you know looks at Hugh and it's you can tell that there's some some some sadness some regret in both of them some tantalizing you know, what could happen here? Yeah. Did you like this episode Adam? I did. It all hinges on how believable you believe Picard's decisions are throughout. Totally.

And it strains his credibility a little bit at a couple of moments. I mean, because I think the contemporary comparison to anyone watching this is like, how a prisoner of war would feel about his previous captors? And I think the version we get of that in the media, in movies and in TV is always the vengeance. It's the unquestioned vengeance.

And so, I mean, we know Picard has a big heart and is extremely ethical in all cases. And God, it just underscores his ethics in a big time way to see him act like this. Yeah. It's a pretty amazing character study of Picard. It's like, it's confronting him with kind of the biggest issues that he faces as a character.

Yeah, I think that we have to assume that he's kind of working off instinct in agreeing to let the doctor aboard, and then working off instinct when he to let the doctor aboard and then working off instinct when he decides to do the genocide thing and then it's bringing that like stupendous rationalism that he's uh known for to bear on the situation that helps him arrive at the decision not to commit genocide. I've got to ask Ben like if you were in Picard's position, do you choose genocide?

Like, do you think, I think I know the answer to the question, do you think genocide is wrong? But my follow-up question is, in this case, against this enemy, do you think there's a case to be made for it? Well, I think that the problem is, the second hue becomes an individual, it starts being genocide, and before that, it isn't,

because it's killing one technological threat versus killing something that is potentially a species that is individualized. And I mean, it's like the difference between, like the institutional borg is detestable and needs to be eliminated, but it becomes a problem when it's an individual with hopes and dreams.

And so that turns it into a crime and not just an act of war. Beverly gets so much to say in this episode. I was wondering why she never made the case for total freedom for the captured Borgs. Like, as soon as they brought Hugh up to the ship and he started to display individual traits like I was surprised No one brought up the idea of maybe the borax can be freed like like pulling pulling all the crap off of him

The way they did with lacutus Yeah, the borax have assimilated a lot of federation people like is there a way? Is there a way to breathe them and sort of? Unwind what the Borg has done to the people they've assimilated? No one makes that case at all based on this small sample size. And it seemed like a case that Beverly would make, but she

never does. I sort of wonder if that's just not having time to get into it. Because it does, that is something that would have been interesting to explore, but this is a pretty tight episode, you know. Yeah, that to me makes a stronger case against genocide than maybe anything else in the show, though, and it goes on said, like, the idea that the Borgs could be freed, that it were possible, also takes genocide off the table to me. Like Like if they were in this form in a permanent fashion and there was no way to reverse what had happened

and they were forever and always going to be a threat the way they are, then I think the case can be made for genocide. God, I just know that's gonna get taken out of context. The case can be made for genocide, Adam said. On Season 5, episode 23. That's gonna be a fun new Gmail rule. Instances of the word genocide, automatically delete.

Because there was why didn't you and what's the other one? You missed the part of out. Right. Ben. What's the other one? You missed the part of out. Right. Ben. What's that at him? Did you assimilate for yourself, a drunk Shimoda? Drunk Shimoda! I picked Q as my Shimoda.

And it's not really something that you did, but there's a shot when Picard has hew up to the ready room for a chat where the camera goes real close in on his face And he had some stubble on his chin. Oh, no, and it made me just imagine a Borg like heading to the washroom and heating up a towel Getting some lather going and having a shave It's got to be so hard to shave around the implants. I know. I love the image of a Borg shaving heating up a towel, getting some lather going and having a shave. It's gotta be so hard to shave around the implants. I know, I love the image of a board shaving.

God. Do you think Hugh has lather inside one of his fingers or something? He's got like a spider man. He can like shoot it onto his palm from his wrist. He's got the Gremlin style bathroom buddy. I didn't ever see a stubble because I was constantly distracted by Hugh's eye patch from Spencer's gifts.

Yeah, yeah, definitely Hugh is... When he gets the other one of those, he's going to enter the world series of poker. Yeah, I feel like they sent the props guy out to Spencer's and he came back with the lizard eye version and the cat's eye version. And they finally decided on this one. Yeah. How much you, did you have a Shimoda? Yeah, I did. And it was one of those background Shimotas that I find sometimes. In the Briggs scene, you know, to the entrepreneur's credit, they

staff the Briggs with a bunch of random security dudes. And one of the security guys in the background has like the dad jeans version of a Starfleet uniform because the black part goes all the way up. Like it goes basically to nipple height. And to me, the black part of the uniform is sort of the pants part. And the gold part is the shirt part. Right. Even though there's some black encroachment onto the gold part, like above the belt line. But this guy's like slash across the body is so high that it looks like he's wearing a dad jeans security uniform.

Yeah, that's some like early 2000s hipster security chief kind of stuff. Yeah, really gives him that pear-shaped bottom. It's one of those looks that really like comes and goes, you know. It was like super hot in the 80s and then gone for 20 years and then it's back. Yeah, the butt pockets are way up high. Yeah, can't really even put anything in them because they hugged those hips so much. It's true.

It's like a braided belt on there. Good to go. Yeah, tack a, tack a, like a printed shirt with a nice tight pattern into it. Unbutton like the top three. The sexy look. Darmak Angelad and Denaga. Top 3. It's a sexy look. A greatest-gen live show is something you don't want to miss. Why? Well it's a great opportunity to see me and Ben in person, but that's not all.

FODs from all over gather at these shows to cosplay, to do pre and post-show hangs, to make friends, and share their embarrassment. Hey, let's make a pretty great name for a tour. Let's do it! The Sherry Reembarishment Tour is coming in August 2023, and we've got a bunch of dates in a lot of great places. Go to GreatestGenTour.com to get more info. That's GreatestGenTour.com for dates and ticketing information for the

share your embarrassment tour. I'm Jordan Morris. And I'm Jesse Thorne. On Jordan Jesse Go, we make pure, delightful nonsense. We were open awesome guests and bring them down to our level. We get stupid with Judy Greer. My friend Molly and I call it having the spaceweards. Pat Noswald.

Could I get a Balrog burger and some air-gorn fries? Thank you. And Kumail Nanjiani. I've come back with cat toothbrushes, which is impossible to use. Come get stupider with us at MaximumFun.org. Look, your podcast apps are already open. Just pull it out. Give Jordan Jesse Goatry.

Being smart is hard. Be dumb instead. Whoa, Russ. Hey, hey, hey, oh, I'm about to count you in line. These clouds are really freaking me out. I hate having to stand in line and boy, what do I? These giraffes do not smell good. No, they do not, and they've such short nacks.

But I'm hearing we need to get on this off. We've got to get on the art. It's about terrain, it's about to destroy humanity. Hey, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Are you Noah? Yeah, I know we look like humans, but we're actually, we're podcasters. We are podcasters, so it's different.

Have you heard of Ono Ross and Carrie? We investigate spirituality, claims of the paranormal, stuff like that. And you have a boat and say the world's gonna end, so seem like something for us to check out. We would love to be on the boats. We came two by two. What do you think?

Ono Ross and Carrie, available on MaximumFun.org. Ben, what do we have coming up on the next episode? The next episode is season five episode 24, the next phase. Jordi and Ro are pronounced dead after a transporting maneuver from a distressed Romulanship. Goza, Rye. Do you remember this episode, Adam? Yes, I do.

I gotta believe that Row is pretty disappointed to be experiencing some form of the afterlife stuck with Jordy. And Jordy has to be super pumped to be stuck with a woman, right? Yeah. There's no escape for row. A woman that he has not totally skived out yet. I think it's understood around the crew that like row and riker are things still, right?

Like, and even though they might not be a capital T thing, like, I don't think Jordy's like hands off everybody. Yeah, I don't think Jorries, like hands off everybody. Yeah, I don't think Jorries gonna step on that territory unless they're dead. In which case, broke code goes out the window, right? Yeah, yeah. That's like being in a different area code or whatever. Yeah.

That's like being on vacation. Right. And this is, this I think is on my mountain. It's one of my faves, if memory serves. The next phase is on your mountain, but I, Borg, is not. Right. I would disagree with that.

You don't get to disagree with me, Adam. It's my fucking mountain. Why do you have to yell at me, man? You just told me my favorite show is not my favorite show. I disagree. All right. Well, that's just your opinion or whatever. Their name and our mountains out there, Ben.

Have you got that? There's been a lot of really good suggestions. The thing about Mount Nuckmore is that Mount Nuckmore is a mountain dedicated to achievements in Nuck. Yeah. Like it's not a place for a great episode. No. So I think other names are in play, but not that one. Right. Well Adam, we don't have any vetoes, so you wouldn't be able to play an evil prank on me. I would never. No pranks, you're the prank. So that's what we're watching next.

I think I can do that. This episode comes out during the Max Fund Drive and I think about a third of our viewers are not current with the show, but for those that are, this is the best time of year to become a financially supporting viewer. This show is free to download and free to listen to, and we are careful not to lard it down with advertisements, you know, we do not have pre-roll ads and a bunch of ads placed throughout, like a lot of podcasts do, and that's because our viewers have been so generous with supporting our show. So this is just us saying, you know, thank you for waiting through the Pledge Drive time and enjoying these shows with

us and supporting it because without you it wouldn't be happening. Pledge Drive is important to all of the shows on the network because it's the one major time when shows can get support for their ongoing production. And I think that that means a lot to you and I, Ben, because I mean to whatever degree we're able to support the things that we do on the network, that really makes the case for us to keep going and creating new shows. Because I think we know that this show is not going to last forever in its current form.

And when people support the show and say that this is worth something to me, this is something that I enjoy enough to support financially. It also encourages us to keep making great content. If you find this to be a value in your life and you're in a position to help support it, you know, like it's, this is not charity, it's just us saying, you know, we put this out for free. If you think it's worth something, it would be really amazing for you to support it. And based on the success of us striking that bargain with you. We can make a decision on like what the future is gonna be for it and

I think we're really optimistic about the future of this show Whatever form it takes in the coming year. Yeah, definitely so thanks everybody who has Who's already stepped up and thanks to everybody who's stepping up during the fun drive and we should also thank dark material for theme music, Adam and Gussia for a lot of the other music you hear on the program. Thanks to the great folks at MaximumFun.org for all of the logistical support that they've provided us and with that we will be back at you next time.

Another great episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation, an episode of the greatest generation that can walk through walls, but not floors. What do you think Hugh smells like? Hmm, bril cream? I thought he might smell like when you open up a new computer, like in your open box, that pleasant electronic smell. This volatile organic compounds from all the glue that they used to put the different implants on him.

He smells like new car. I think that'd be nice to have around. Sort of pleasant. Yeah. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist-owned. Listener supported.