The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - A different story for England as Belgium hit back – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Tom Garry and Sophie Downey to discuss the Lionesses tale of two matches against Belgium

This is The Guardian. Shea but it was a tale of two matches for the Lionesses, a Nations League doubleheader against Belgium that started with a rich chocolate sundae complete with waffles, cherry and sprinkles and ended in a bit of a sloppy mess. Is the dendrief cursed for England? We'll discuss that, round up the rest of the international action as well as gearing up for a World Cup on home soil in 10 years time. All that plus we'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, Susie Rack, in your men's mind, you must be utterly delighted. I should have stuck rice somewhere into that intro just for you after Arsenal's Champions League win last

night. Can you swap sprinkles for rice? I'm not sure it would work, you know, on a waffle, but you know, we could go with it. Yeah, we might do. Listen, this is a very international pod coming at you today. I am in Madrid. Tom Gary, I'm assuming you're in Belgium. You find me in the glamorous setting of a departure gate at Brussels Airport, yes, after covering England's game last night. So although I'm not quite as glamorous a setting as our esteemed colleague Sophie, who thanks to her commitment to covering every single overseas England match for under 17s, under 19s, under 23s, you name it, you name it, she's flown so much, she's in the lounge. Whereas I'm in peasant class today, I really am. So we're quite close to one another,

but we can't actually see each other. I'm sort of waving down the video call at our dear friend who's somewhere else in the lovely part of the airport as I sit in very much peasant class. Well, we normally talk about headwear that Sophie Downey wears, and today she's in her tiaraara sitting on her throne in the lounge. That's me all over Sophie. I know. Total princess. Total princess. Oh gosh,

dear me, I hate it when you have to play the same opponent twice. Like we were talking about Chelsea Manchester City and the, I can't even remember what we called it, the quadrilogy. And now it's a double header against Belgium, same opponent, same competition in the Nations League. And this is how it ended because this is the penultimate international window, you'll remember remember before this summer's European Championships. And they had to play Belgium twice within this. We'll start in chronological order because that makes sense. Friday night at Bristol, England delighted the sold out Ashton Gate with a brilliant display of attacking football and it finished England 5, Belgium 0. There were goals from Lucy Bronze, Millie Bright, Aggy

Beaver-Jones, Jess Park and Kiera Walsh getting her first ever England goal, would you believe, after 80 odd caps. It was such an impressive night for the Lionesses, Susie, especially off the back of that really important win over Spain back in February. How did they get the job done? Yeah, it was great. It felt like a bit of a turning point. I mean, just everything about it was great. The atmosphere was jumping and I've always been a massive advocate for like playing like a Wembley as much as humanly possible and mirroring what the men do. But actually, I think the men should mirror, like I kind of switched a little bit and thought the men should

do what women do more and play some of those games that aren't the Spains, USAs, Germanys, etc. equivalents, like outside of Wembley because the atmosphere was just so brilliant, like, it was electric and I think that played a big part as well in the result and the manner of the performance and the intensity and the way it was maintained sort of throughout too. But yeah, just phenomenally good. The right side in particular was just so, so strong. And I mean, there was kind of fortune in that Tessa O'Lark wasn't in the side. As we know, she goes on to become an important part of this story. But yeah, like, the England were

just unplayable, which was really, really nice to see. And I thought contrasted well with the game. I think contrast matched well with the game against Spain, you know, beating the world champions and then a team that will kind of sit back a little bit more defensively back to back, although then undone. But, you know, speaking on that. It's so difficult isn't it, to analyse both games knowing what happened last night. Serena Vigman did make one change to the team. Beth Mead came in to link up with Lucy Bronze down the right-hand side, Soph. And actually, both of them had a really important impact in that first game.

Yeah, I think the experience showed for them down that right side. Both of them really linked up very, very well. Lucy Bronze, I mean. My god, she's like the Benjamin Button career, isn't she? She just seems to get younger with every game that she plays. She'll still be playing by 2035, I think, at this rate. But yeah, I think they linked up really well. And I think that was really, really positive for England. Everything that was good was coming down that right side for them. It was really, really strong.

And the way that they utilized Kiera Walsh and Georgia Stamway, not Georgia Stamway, sorry, Kiera Walsh and Grace Clinton, the way that they utilize Kiera Walsh and Georgia Stamway, not Georgia Stamway, sorry, Kira Walsh and Grace Clinton. The way that they utilized Kira Walsh and Grace Clinton to fill in when Beth Meade came inside and cast inside and inverted really showed kind of the options that they have going forward. And I think Beth Meade is so direct with her crossing in terms of her delivery, she's so accurate as well. Lucy Bronze as well, well she assisted what two goals and scored one so a really good night for all of that right side. Yeah Serena Vigman did say that she felt something was happening with the way that England were playing she said at moments I thought we made football look a little bit simple. Was it one of the most complete

performances we've seen from England in a while, Tom? I think it was the most impressive performance with the ball that we've seen from them since the World Cup and maybe since the Euros, I think, on Friday. The whole thing felt very sort of summer 2022. There was that lovely atmosphere at Ashton Gate, the crowd really getting into it. And you had so many players who were central to that success in 2022 on really good form when that was made or Walsh. But I think what it really showed probably, not just Belgium but every other team that could play England in the coming months, it was a reminder of the dangers of what England can do if you give them time and space on the ball. And particularly as Belgium did,

if you allow Kira Walsh to have time and space on the ball and particularly as Belgium did, you know, if you allow Keira Walsh to have time and space to dictate the passing and play the through balls that she's so dangerous and England become so dangerous, you know, Meade had lots of space as well and I think it was perhaps something we've not seen very much of since the World Cup where England have found opponents are giving them less and less space but Belgium for whatever reason you know that England found lots of space and freedom and time when they get that this is the wish was a reminder that they are still really lethal and one of the best attacking forces out there when they get that time

and space of course as we know they are very Jekyll and Hyde at the moment though aren't they England so it was all with that caveat. But if we were as of Friday, things looked very, very rosy indeed. And then of course, injuries came. Lauren James leaving the camp, of course, we already knew Chloe Kelly had the injury as well. And I think the momentum seemed to stutter as soon as we got to full time, really, because the bad news started trickling through from the game through to Tuesday. full time really because the bad news started trickling through from the game through to Tuesday.

Yeah, both Lauren James and Alessia Russo went back to their clubs for rehab on injuries that they'd picked up, which is a worry going forward. We'll talk about the impact that that then had. Substitutes impacted the game though, Susie, which was good. And Tom mentioned the success of Euro 2022. That was a large part of it, wasn't it? But it's fair to say that strength in depth is developing, or I would have said that on Friday and now I'm slightly questioning whether or not that is true. Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you look at that game in isolation, right, and don't think ahead a few days, like I was very excited by the impact of Agi Biva-Jones and Jess Park in particular because like Tom said there was a real

sort of like Euro 2022 vibe about the game as a whole. I felt like one of the aspects of that was the impact of Park and Agi off the bench, you know, obviously during the Euros England had the luxury of being able to stick to the same start in 11 throughout that tournament, then had Alessia Russo and Ella Tunas, the supersubs that came on in almost every single game were really, really impactful. And I felt a bit of that vibe from that Aggie Beaver-Jones and Jess partnership coming off the bench, albeit at different times of the second half, you know, that they both got on the score sheet and injected some energy into the

game at a point where it was needed, you know, we'd just seen Belgium have two sort of chances back to back in sort of quite quick succession, like a couple of minutes apart and then they come on and you know Aggie scores and it's it kind of puts that score line that little bit further out of reach and Doles that that fight back. So like yeah, I thought that was quite exciting And has potential I think we need to see those players get more minutes ideally in the run up to The euros but like there was just an echo of that vibe although then I asked Serena about it and she completely shout on it so you know we can't necessarily read too much into it but yeah she said the team has changed everything's changed

formations are changing blah blah which is all true but that you know doesn't necessarily mean that they won't revert to a more similar formula come the euros. Come on, Serena, get with the narrative. We want the magic of the 2022 narrative, please, leading in. We did get a little bit of special stardust, though, didn't we? Aguibiva Jones, you mentioned there and Kiera Walsh is still at the top with their first goals for their country which is a special moment for any player, so. Yeah, for sure, and for Aggie Beaver-Jones, I think it was really important to get that first goal kind of off her back. You know, you can kind of weight off her shoulders now.

It's no longer hanging over her in terms of what she can do for England. I think for Kiera as well, a really special moment and I think Serena afterwards said we're trying to urge her to shoot more. I thought it was really interesting the way that they used her on Friday because they, I think for so many, so often in recent games, she's been boxed out of games in terms of, you know, the opposition know that she's through which England play. So they kind of mark her out of the games and we struggle to get her influential. And I thought on Friday, moving her around, getting her out on the right side,

getting her shifting a bit forward, it was a really clever way of getting her involved in the games. And I guess the goal kind of shows that. I was also saying on the point about like, I do think we need to really consider this game. I know what happened yesterday happened, but it was a really complete performance from England. And I think it still needs the credit

where it's due, because if that's what England can play like and they can get that consistently, then you're in for a pretty exciting time this summer. I guess it's easy to let our judgment be clouded by what happened last night but I think trying to treat that game in isolation in a way in terms of what we learned from it I think it gave us a really good idea of maybe as Susie said Serena won't admit it probably but she probably knows her starting lineup now I think for the summer and she knows the players that will impact off the bench and I think that confirmed it on Friday and it confirmed it last night as well. Yeah, I agree. And listen, we're a very positive pod and we were all getting excited. Having

been a little bit uncertain, I think it's fair to say about how England would be going into the Euros, not necessarily on the best form. This has probably put question marks in because we'll talk about Tuesday night's game now. We are recording on a Wednesday, which is very rare for us because we wanted to make sure that we were talking about this game. Literally four days in between them and it was a completely different story. It finished Belgium 3, England 2 and Belgium actually went into a three goal lead. It was two goals from Tessa Vullar and a header from Justine Van Hevemaat. Beth Mead did pull a goal back from the penalty spot just before the break. And Michelle Aguimang made it a really tense finale and we'll talk about her phenomenal goal on debut at 19 years old in a second.

But Tom, it was a real contrast, wasn't it? Compared to that game we've just been discussing in Bristol. What did you make of the performance and particularly the defensive frailty in that opening half an hour? Yeah, very worrying for England and a real feeling of deja vu here actually. The same scoreline, three, two at the same stadium as the last time England were here 18 months of deja vu here actually. The same scoreline 3-2 at the same

stadium as the last time England were here 18 months ago in Leuven and the same problems with England not being able to deal with the pace of Belgium myself and a couple other members of the media nearly three hours to get through the passport control at Brussels Airport on Monday but not quite as bad as that but it did take England more than half an hour to really get into this game. They were waiting to enter the field of play and defensively they hadn't really done anything significantly defensively until we got to the 30-second or 33rd minute. Very worrying with that side of the game. Going forward, lots of positive about in the second half of the England played a very good second half overall but by that point Belgium could afford

to be very deep, to be very compact, to sit really tight and all the damage had been done in that first half. One simple ball over the top got in behind Nid Charles and Millie Bright for the first goal. You know a simple set piece for the second goal that England's coaches must have been tearing their hair out about, and then the third goal, again all playing through England far too easily and for Villa to get to beat Millie Bright to that ball into the box again, all felt a little bit too simple. And I think, listen, there are pros and cons to this camp for England as we know, but us, the fifth time England have lost since the World Cup final in 22 matches, and I would say probably the seventh

or eighth disappointing performance in those 22 as well. And they've really been, we've seen the two extremes, we've seen them be fantastic against Spain, we've seen them be fantastic at home to Belgium. Great performance is like winning away in France, the thrashing of Scotland at Hampden Park, for example. But then we are also seeing this inconsistency, this frailty, and real vulnerability to the counterattack, which was also evident against Germany, if you remember how much they found

it difficult when Germany counterattacked. And Serena Vigman said afterwards she wasn't concerned. She said it's all part of the learning process. I personally would be a bit more concerned, I think that this is a recurring theme. So, you know, these performances are there if England are not really on it, they're very vulnerable. With my GCSE maths head on, that's over a third of games. That's quite big. If you look at that in a tournament setting, you're not gonna reach a final, or you're gonna have to have an incredible amount of luck.

It's interesting actually, Susie, that Tom mentions the learnings that Serena Vigman said. And much as I don't really like playing the same team back to back, I actually think it's fascinating from a coaching point of view what you can take from it. What do you think her biggest learnings are going to be? Before that, I'm not overly worried about the percentage of games they've struggled in versus like, you know, then when you hit a major tournament, if you kind of have the same level of games, sort of lost, drawn, struggled in, blah, blah,

that that's going to cause a problem because like major tournaments are so different, right? Like once you hit the major tournament, you've sort of got all of that out of your system a little bit and things look quite different. So I'm not totally worried about that. It is cliched. You learn more in defeat than you do in victory. There's quite a lot they can take from this game, particularly defensively. The fact that obviously they've got injuries and that to a certain extent is an excuse. None of those injuries were to the back line or to the more defensive pair of the midfield as well in terms of Clinton and Walsh. Like all of the entire back seven, if you include Hampton, Clinton and Walsh and the back four were unchanged from the

game the other day. So like that is a concern for me in that like whether it's complacency or like a lack of cohesion, I wonder if playing away has an impact as well. Like the crowd was so, so strong in Bristol and such a vibrant part of it. I really felt like the players fed off the crowd that you do then wonder what the impact of an away crowd versus that has a kind of not necessarily keeping you on it like 24-7 of a match. So like for me one of the learnings is, is you know that that whilst that is like likely your starting back line there's gonna be some concerns about how quickly that like or how slowly that took to get going. And then I also like yeah I think another learning was like options off the bench and like being a little bit more creative in the options you have available

to you. I mean Serena's stuck quite resolutely to a sort of kind of key pool of players that she's pulled from and having Michelle Agamang in the mix by default essentially because of Alessia Russo getting injured and her coming up from the 19s I think was huge. I mean what a like super super talent which anyone who sort of followed her journey with England and Arsenal at youth levels knows that she's like prodigious. But yeah, to have that impact like, kind of so quickly into her senior debut that she wasn't even meant to be making in this camp, I think is like, a bit of a shout for variety and for like, looking a little bit beyond and that there is talent outside the pre-existing sort of core pool that they look at that can add a level of

unpredictability that I think they've maybe been lacking a little bit since the Euros and since the World Cup. Yeah, I was about to talk about Hannah Hampton, but I think you've perfectly teed up a chat about Michelle Agyemang because I mean, the way she took the goal for a start was just absolutely brilliant onto the chest and then a volley. 41 seconds after she came on, which is I was I was amused by all the tweets of people saying, well done, Michelle Agmean coming on for your England debut. And she scored. It was one of those which was just an absolute delight to see.

And actually, you know, making a real impact is vital. Maybe, Sophie, it's fair to say she's put the cat amongst the pigeons a little bit in terms of Serena Vigman's summer selection plans. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. She is a really special talent. There's no doubt about that. I do think I don't want to go down like the conventional path that we do with England where we go hype up the youngsters so much that it gets too much pressure for them. But I've watched her since she was in the under-17s all the way through. I saw her in the under-19s on a Saturday afternoon, scoring for the under-19s, and then she's suddenly scoring for England seniors four days later, which is a bit mad. She's an incredible talent.

I think it's going to be interesting what they do this summer. I think she's a really good option but England under 19s are playing in the Euros this summer in June and how they use her because they need her because that Euros qualifies for a World Cup so it's really about loading and balancing and figuring out whether you just take her and yeah you might use her five minutes here and there but she's there for the experience more than anything and kind of one of those squad players. I think going back to the kind of learnings a bit, Inglis left side was really the problem all the way through that game in that first half and it was what caused the problems all over the

pitch. They couldn't, Aggie Beaver-Jones is a brilliant young player but she is not like the kind of Beth Mead or Lauren Hemp kind of player that will work to get back all the time. And it kind of left New Charles and Millie Bright quite exposed when Tessa Wallock was down that side with her pace. So I think there was a lot of learnings in that. I think Toon changed her game when she came on, and Ella Toon gets a lot of criticism from a lot of quarters, generally.

But I think she showed why she's England starting number 10 because her off the ball work, the way that she hassles and harries in that midfield does not allow the spaces that you know Belgium were afforded in that first half so she kind of changed that game so I think those were the key learnings whereas I think Jess Park is that kind of technical flair player who you bring on for that impact at this moment in time when your opposition is defending, is towering a bit. So I think those were also key learnings I think that's worth pointing out. I do think you learn a lot in defeat. I think that game solidified very much in Serena Vigman's mind I would imagine.

She probably won't admit it, but who she's taking in the summer and who she's not. Yeah, the question still remains though, of who's going to be her number one goalkeeper, because the decision to keep Hannah Hampton in goal seemed interesting. Tom, she was asked about the choice as well, and this was her response. I have two world-class goalkeepers. At the moment, Hannah is a little bit ahead. Does that make her number one for the summer? Is Hannah Hampton a little bit ahead of Mary Earps in your opinion?

I think in Serena Vigwin's mind now, we've just seen the strongest indication yet that Hannah Hampton is now the number one. Three games in a row to have started when Mary Oates was available for all three as well. That's a real shift and I think it's now reached a stage where we'll be very surprised if Hannahampton isn't starting that opening game against France. She did have a run of games last summer but then of course Earths had had a bit of a knock. But I think this run now with the Spain game and the two games against Belgium in a row

with Hampton getting the jersey, I think that probably answers the question now. And I think, and actually I've kind of personally had very little preference. I think they both bring a lot to the team, but part of me now hopes that Hampton does get stuck with for the May and June fixtures because what England need most of all now is probably that continuity. So that might sound really harsh to Mary Earp and Mary Earp supporters out there. But I almost come into it thinking, well, I don't

mind which of them they choose. They're both excellent. But whoever it is now needs a run of games because the back four and the goalkeeper need that cohesion. So I sort of hope that this sparring any injuries is the end of the saga between now and the Euros because England need that bit of... Consistency. It's early. Don't you worry. It's very, very early and you are in an airport terminal. But I knew exactly what you meant. Can I make a slightly negative point about the learnings, that strange word that lots of coaches use? I agree with the gang here that you can learn a lot from the defeats, but my worry would be

that if it was so easy to learn from losing these games, and what did we learn from the 3-2 loss in Belgium 18 months ago? What have we acted on from that result coming here last time to improve, appreciate it was a slightly different set of players, slightly different set of circumstances, but it did feel like such a moment of deja vu, so it's very easy for anyone to say we'll learn from this, I'm not concerned, it's only April. Well, I felt like that was the tone of things when they lost again 18 months ago and we're getting closer and closer and closer to the Euros and yes the media tournament is different but this has to be a massive wake-up call for England

they cannot play like this in the Euros because you'll be going home really early. I've learned that I love Leuven because it's just beautiful but I've also learned Sophie hates it. I really hate Leuven and I think there's a jinx on the ground and I think that's the sole reason why England can never perform there. I mean I've been here four, four, five times at this point and in the last three games we've lost three, two, twice and drawn three, three. We've been the favourites to win every time so I think there is a jinx. That's what I'm putting it down to. Or maybe I'm the jinx.

Maybe you're the jinx. Maybe. Right, that's it for part one Or maybe I'm the Jinx. Maybe you're the Jinx. Maybe. Right, that's it for part one. You're not the Jinx. In part two, we're going to look at some more Nations League action and discuss the UK being set to host the 2035 World Cup. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Let's take a look at how some of the other teams got on in their respective Nations League campaigns. Wales continued their competitive start to life in League A, suffered a narrow defeat to Denmark and Cardiff on Friday, but a valuable point away to Sweden. Tom Ryan Wilkinson's side of impressed so far in this campaign and it feels as if they're building momentum at just the right time. Hugely impressive too, very, very good results that I don't think many people would have

expected them to secure and will probably send out a bit of a message to a lot of people that they're not going to be pushovers in these Euros. I think a lot of people, probably myself included, are guilty of just assuming that they will really, really struggle to get any results in their first couple of games against France and the Netherlands. But on the evidence of the past week, they're really, really capable of doing something. And that will, I think it will just give so much belief internally as well for Wales that the whole and sort of vindication for everything they're doing on the training ground with Wilkinson. Listen, it's still going to be a really difficult task but Sweden for me, you know, despite having a slightly aging team,

Sweden remain one of the sort of top, probably the top five or six teams in Europe so drawing away there deserves a huge huge amount of credit indeed. Yeah Northern Ireland draw away in Bucharest and then they returned to Belfast to beat Romania by a goal to nil that was their second home win of the campaign Tanya Roxby said she was proud of their resilience, asking them to defend for their lives. I mean, she's got quite a big task, hasn't she, rebuilding the team and it's not going to happen overnight. But have you seen enough maybe, Susie, to think that they're heading in the right direction after a few years without any direction at

all? Yeah, I mean, they're in a really good position in the group in second seven points, like it's the same as where England are at obviously in league b rather than league a. I can't believe you didn't use the a clean sheet and no defeat that's the motto quote because that's definitely my favorite of Tanya's from after the game. But yeah like she's bringing in young players I think they made four changes all quite youthful to starting 11. They are clearly showing signs of progress, they play the same team back to back as England did, drawing the first one, winning the second. They ironed out any kind of errors they felt from the first. They

wanted them to have a little bit more resilience in that defensive third and coming away from a clean sheet in a game like that that they conceded in so soon after their goal in the first game a few days earlier showed that. So you can see the plan is working at the moment. There's real signs of growth and it's very, very achievable for them to do well in that group. Is the plan working for Scotland though, Soph? Because Michael McArdle's Scotland side suffered two comprehensive defeats to Germany. The game that is highlighted is the six goals, second half capitulation in Wolfsburg on Tuesday. Worrying times if you're a Scotland fan, I think it's fair to say. It is. I think over the last 18 months we've seen glimpses of Scotland of what they can

be like and then utter, I don't know, backtracking or going backwards completely. I think they desperately need a permanent manager. That's the one thing that's really going to give them a platform to build on because at the moment they're kind of just sort of in this interim period where you can never really build. Yes, you know, they can work on things from camp to camp until you get a proper permanent coaching. You can never really like instill their ideas or, you know, their concepts until that point. I spoke to Jo Potter last week and she's the manager of Rangers at the moment and she was saying how important it is for Scotland to start qualifying for tournaments both for the the nation but also for the for the league and vice versa for the league to be helping and the clubs to be helping

Scotland to qualify and that's been something that's really lacking in recent years, you know, they haven't qualified since 2019 World Cup There's two major tournaments they've missed out on and they don't really look much closer to being able to kind of get over that hurdle at the moment. They have some absolute quality in their squad. You know, you look at the likes of Caroline Wynne, Erin Cuthbert, those players should be playing in, you know, major tournaments left, right and centre. But they just aren't quite as some of their parts at the moment and it is a worry I think there is a sort of neglect from the Scottish FA of over years in terms of investment into the into the squad as well they've really let them down in that respect and yeah I think they really need a proper

rethink and reset and I hope that's what they're doing at the moment in making this decision for a permanent coach because you can't go through another cycle and not qualify for another major tournament, then you're falling even further behind than you are already and that's going to be a real real worry for them. Yeah without a doubt and so difficult for those elite players that aren't able to go and showcase their talents on a world or European stage for sure. Elsewhere France got a solid win away to Norway, Italy hit three past Denmark, Iceland came from two goals down to draw three all with Switzerland. Meanwhile Tom, friend of the pod Carla Ward got back to winning ways with the Republic

of Ireland, two victories over Greece. It was a tough first international window for her and the team but does it feel as if they're back on track a little bit? Yeah, and it was always going to take a little bit of time, wasn't it? You'd maybe need a couple of windows to start to cement your ideas, but Arlen will take a huge amount of confidence from this. This is going to sound like a slightly strange thing to say, but it might actually help Carla Ward and her staff that the Republic of Ireland are in that second tier Nations League cycle right now to sort of build up that form and build up that belief in

the group with shall we say more winnable games than being in the A-League as the Irish side have been recently but I don't mean that in a patronising way, I just think of it as an opportunity when you're coming into a new era to start on a positive note and start building up the things that you want to see on the pitch then winning really helps and Greece are no pushover but they're also clearly not of the same caliber of what Ireland were facing just sort of less than a year ago when they were in that group that contained France and England as well. But no reason for enormous optimism for Carla Ward and I think that she will be really, really glad to have backed up one, you know, to get one of the results one thing but to

back it up again, unlike England, she'll be a very, very happy woman right now. I think Carla said herself that she didn't really, she underestimated the kind of impact of the disappointment of that loss to Wales and how much it's taken mentally and physically out of the players. You know, they lost to Wales, they left camp, they lost, the manager changed, and then they were in a new cycle, and they were suddenly having to perform again, and they're suddenly expected to win,

whereas Arlen, for a long time, had been kind of the underdogs, and they're really adjusting to that new role as being, you know, favourites in games. So I think it's taken a little time for them to adjust, and I think it reminded me, I know, very different levels of the game, but after coming back from the World Cup final for England, and I know very different levels of the game, but after coming back from the World Cup final for England and we look at those games against the Dutch

and Belgium and the performances and the lack of positivity in the England squad and I think that was the hangover from that World Cup final. I think we really need to think about how these games affect players of understand that it does take groups a bit of time to get rid of the cobwebs you know get rid of the mental scars of of big disappointments and I think that's where Ireland were at last camp and that's why you got those kind of dodgy results but I think this is a real like as John said a clean slate now where you know you've got those two results and you can really build from that going into the summer. Difficult to build when you don't have players to build with. And it feels as if there's

been a bit of a trend developing over this international window of injuries. Many international sides have picked up a lot of injuries and it's raised questions on whether or not there should actually be an international window in April. There isn't one on the men's side of the sport. We're obviously getting in in terms of the English domestic season into the conclusion of the WSL and the championship. What do you think, Suzy? Is it right to have an international window now? We've talked about scheduling so much on this pod already and I don't think there is a right answer to it. But do you feel as if there's a bit of a trend going and maybe the authorities need to look at dropping this one? Yeah, 100%. I mean, you look at the two teams in the Champions League from England and Hermano,

Ramirez, James, all out from an Arsenal point of view, Van Domsala, Russo, Kelly, Caitlin Ford's got a broken nose. It's massively impacting a key, key point of the season. I saw a friend of the pod, Tim Stillman, tweeted, the men's game got rid of the season. I saw friend of the pod Tim Stillman tweeted the men's game got rid of the international break over two decades ago now because there was not an acknowledgement that was such an important part of the club season frustrating that key players not just Arsenal players are picking up injuries ahead of Champions League semi-finals and league running and I think it's a really really pertinent point like you can't

have the international game growing at the expense of the domestic game and for or vice versa right like you've got to find the balance there and the balance isn't right you know we've got two windows that really really don't fit the calendar at the moment this one uh coming at such a critical point of a club season and then this really really stupid one right on the doorstep of the Euros in June as well. So like that needs to change where they fit. I mean I would argue that maybe they should have a window less than they do at the moment but then where you fit them I think has to look very very different

to what it is now. You cannot impact the club season in the way that you are and you cannot have just ahead of a major tournament your biggest teams essentially playing in some cases extremely similar games with the Nations League groups and the Euros groups in some cases not looking particularly different too. So it's not looking particularly different too. So yeah, huge problems with scheduling a calendar. And as an Arsenal fan, I'm furious. As an England in Europe fan, I'm furious as well with Chelsea's injuries too. Like we should not just, we shouldn't be hampering teams like this. Samar It's just to be devil's advocate, you know, we wanted competitive fixtures though, rather than friendlies. We've got competitive fixtures and that means that obviously they're not movable.

They are movable. Well, they are movable, but you're always going to move them to a part of the season that's going to impact that part of the season. So there's always the argument that which part of the season do you move them to where it doesn't then become problematic Tom? Well to be honest with you, my own view would be that the windows that need to be removed from the Women's International calendar are those Northern Hemisphere summer windows in the years when there is no tournament for the seniors. Last summer for example the international window that took place in July 2024 was

one of the worst ideas I can recall in the international scheduling for a very very long time because that was the one opportunity that particularly for the European players the one opportunity they had for a real summer break particularly if you went in the Olympics real summer break and it was completely stolen by that that competitive window of very important matches that was in July. That's a window that I feel similarly about the competitive games in this May-June window, so close to the major tournaments as well. I think that should be a warm-up friendly window at best. My view on the April window, in

terms of player loading, players would almost certainly be playing competitive matches anyway. What we have to be mindful of is that the reason there are extra windows for women's international football compared to men's is because so many countries around the world really rely on the international women's football opportunities to get any kind of meaningful football you know but Susie's so right that for the for the players in the Champions League and for those top countries there's a major major problem now because we have we do have way too much international football we have at least one window too many every year and that's that cannot continue in the long run but yes yes, sorry, just to come back to it,

the window that I would prioritize removing would be the summer windows, particularly in those non-tournament years, rather than removing the April 1 person. I feel like Sophie's got something to say, but I want to ask about whether international managers actually have a little bit of responsibility to take on their shoulders. They've got a job to do, so I think it's a little bit harsh at times because there has been some heavy criticism of how they use their players. Should it be falling all at their door? I mean, obviously not all of the blame at their door. What's your take on it all? I would have you not say take Serena Vigman, for example. Her job is to put England in the best possible position

for the summer and she is not thinking about club football, she is thinking about winning the European Championships or backing up a European Championship win and you can see the criticism that she gets when they lose a game or when they lose a game and she changes things up right, but she can't win because when she wins again people are complaining about her using her best squad and overloading players I think a lot of the loading actually comes from the clubs you know and I don't necessarily disagree with it but like Sonia Bonpas Tour has played Lucy Bronze consistently throughout the season Millie Bright consistently throughout

the season they're the players who looked really tired last night and they are the big players that are doing the most of the work at their club games. So I do think the clubs kind of get away with it a little bit in terms of the loading because you're thinking about the league season. In terms of the other stuff, to play devil's advocate again, we have a three week break at Christmas in the winter break. And you know, we either preserve that or we don't. And I think I do understand the loading issue at this time of year, but it's the same every year and

injuries unfortunately do happen in football. I do think there needs to be a lot more care about player loading. I think this edition of the Nations League has been hammed into a six-month period that it didn't need to be hammed into. And really they could have delayed until, you know, the autumn to play this nation's league and allowed this six month period for, you know, teams to build up to get the cycle in, to get players playing in friendlies

and competitive friendlies. We know that England was set up friendlies with the likes of the USA and stuff like that. So it would be competitive games. You can't call a game against the USA, you know, an friendly really, but it would allow them to try things and try different ways of doing it. And when you're looking at the groups in the summer, as Suzy said, you know, at the moment in England's Nations League group, you have Spain, Belgium and Portugal,

they're all in the same group in the Euro's in summer, Spain, Portugal and Belgium. I mean, FIFA have a rule, don't they they I think that you're not allowed to play an opposition within like three or four months of the same opposition within like three or four months of the competition and it seems utterly baffling to me that UEFA have allowed this to happen that by the time the summer comes Spain they will have all played each other twice you know they will know each other like the back of their hands. It's the same with Sweden and Denmark they played each other twice and they build up to this tournament and it just loses that kind of edge and that kind of excitement because they're just so attuned to each

other so you can't really, you know, have that kind of what will happen. You know how they're going to play, you know how they're going to set up and so I think that's a real big error on UEFA's part and I think you know anyway what I feel about the Nations League. I won't go into it. I'd scrap the whole thing completely. I personally don't want to win it. I would prefer to come second in the group and then you have the autumn off where you don't have to play any European matches. You can go and have fun playing the USA or Brazil or wherever you might want to go. And isn't that bad? I wonder whether any of the players feel like that as well because

you do get into that mindset at times, don't you, if you need a rest. No player should be thinking, I don't want to win a tournament. Let's talk about 2035 World Cup. It'd be quite fun to win that, wouldn't it? Last week, Gianni Infantino announced at the UA for Congress that the USA and the UK were set to host the 2031

and 2035 editions of the FIFA Women's World Cup, respectively. Both were the only ones to submit a valid expression of interest, interestingly, and while formal bids still have to be submitted by the winter, the decision is now more of a formality. Look, it is a decade away, but that decade will go very quickly. I can tell you that as an older person, the decade will disappear. But how exciting is it for the World Cup to be coming to the UK for the first time, Suzie? Yeah, I was delighted until I worked out how old I will be when it comes around. I should probably be in my grave and not covering women's football at that stage. So that was like really, really like cheerful from a momentum point of view in terms of development of women's football

in England, it's obviously brilliant. Like I think the fact that it's, you know, the first time that England have hosted a world cup since 1966 men's tournament is like kind of insane really that it's taken that long for it to come around on either side. So it's really exciting from that point of view and I bet FIFA will love it because like at the moment you know the UK and the US are the, England and the US are the two sort of biggest growth markets in terms of like elite level growth of the game. So like there's real potential there and you can build real momentum and you can get a little bit of that sort of like, I call it the like Olympic vibe around the tournament where people just want to be a part of it in any way possible. Like they just want to be involved. So they'll go to the Belgium versus Finland game or whatever it may be and like we'll just want to be in

that vibe and you know kind of experience a bit of the tournament. You don't necessarily get that in many other ways so like I think you know we didn't really see that for example at France in 2019, necessarily. We did in Australia big time, people just wanted to be a part of anything that was going on. So I think that's a big bonus for them. But I know, yeah, Tom has written a really, really good piece about the diversity of the hosts, which I think is really interesting. And I'm sure he'll come into at some point. Yeah, well, let's actually take this email that Jim Hearson sent us

on Women's Football Weekly at theguardian.com. Further to Tom's piece on the US and UK being the only bids for the 2031 and 2035 World Cups, is it simply a case of the tournament getting too big too quickly by boosting the participating nations up to 48. By the way, I forgot to tell you that's what they're doing. By 2031, the number of teams participating will have increased from 32 to 48. FIFA has made a rod for its own back, Jim says, as a country must have

at least 16 stadia with 20,000 plus capacity to host the 104 games. Tom mentions an African host in his article of the qualifiers in 2023, only South Africa meets that criteria. While there's scope for multiple nations to team up, that's a worse experience for players and fans who have to travel more, but is preferable to FIFA at the moment, as we can see, as well as the environment. That was me, by the way, interjecting that, not see, as well as the environment. That was me by the way

interjecting that not Jim. As well as the environment but as long as it swells FIFA's coffers those concerns will no doubt be dismissed. Thank you for your email Jim. Thoughts Tom? Yeah Jim makes some really important points that hey listen these two tournaments will be wonderful for the women's game in so many ways. I've no doubt about that and I think we have a lot of reason to be excited about them both but you know for the global sport it's desperately sad that nobody else has wanted to have a crack at this you know to not even be able to put in a beard I think that's extremely sad for the women's game. It does not point very well to, if you look at FAs all around the world, and governments all around the world, to their ambitions for the women's game and the importance they place on trying to host a women's tournament.

And I do think South Africa is a really good example, yes, to have not mounted a really strong effort to host this is just desperately sad for the global women's game and the fact that this tournament has never been to Africa ever and it's now going to go to the US for a, you know, we're still waiting for the first women's World Cup to head to Japan or South Korea or the Middle East of course as well, you know, let's not forget This is a World Cup and I think for the Americans in particular to have it for a third time I think we should be mindful of the fact that the two strongest Countries in terms of their domestic women's football offerings in the world right now are only going to get stronger by hosting these two tournaments for the global ecosystem that's a worry. But no, Jim makes a really good point and there's a flip side of that argument isn't it, is that the players and the fans and everyone involved in the teams deserve the best possible tournament conditions and facilities and stadia that they can possibly get.

So all of that is also very important and in that regard we probably have the two hosts who deserve this the most. My worry is they just they need it the least in terms of developing the women's game in their domestic countries. I think the point on stadium size that Jim makes is a really really good one as well and the tournament size because when you look at the men's South Africa World Cup in 2010, that was a 32 team tournament. So if you're looking at a 48 team tournament for nations like South Africa or any of the other African countries or some of those Asian countries, the capacity for that number of games is going to be really, really difficult. Even those

countries that you look at South Africa in particular because they have hosted a men's world cup, right? Like they did not host a tournament that big. So then you're immediately hitting roadblocks that are in the way that require potentially stadium building or like a really kind of convoluted, like, or like joint bids, you know, we've seen more and more joint bids like in men's and women's football. and I think that's partly because of this issue of Of of the sizes of both world cups increasing. I think the world cup Increasing is a good thing to 48 teams. I'm not sure that's quite a large like a substantial increase But like in terms of yeah location of where you can hold it

You're really really sort of of cutting down the pile. And I guess in a way, it's an excuse, right? That suits FIFA because then they get to stick it in the tournaments that are going to generate the most capital, which at the moment market wise is the England and the US. Yeah, absolutely. Well, money talks, doesn't it? Always. I think it's important though that all the home nations are involved in the UK's bid in 2035. I think that's very big. Right, last piece of business because next week sees the launch of a brand new professional league in Canada. The long-awaited Northern Super League kicks off in Vancouver on Thursday morning UK time. It was just announced

that they've secured a landmark deal as well with ESPN Plus who are going to stream more than 40 Super League kicks off in Vancouver on Thursday morning UK time. It was just announced that they've secured a landmark deal as well with ESPN Plus who are going to stream more than 40 matches per season. Exciting times for Canada. So I feel like you are an honorary Canadian. We're going to cover it more in depth next week, aren't we? But I know how excited you are about it. Yeah, I'm so excited. I am an honorary Canadian. Having lived there for a little while, it's Vancouver as well, is where I kind of, my heart is. So I'm very, very excited for the opening next week. I'm actually going to be there, which is going to be exciting. So I can give you all the

goss, the updates on what it's like. But I think for Canadian women's football, it's a huge moment. the updates on what it's like. But I think for Canadian Women's Football it's a huge moment. Casey Stoney spoke about it before one of their games in this camp. You know, for them to establish a professional league, to be able to start bringing players through and being able to provide careers for players, rather than having to send them down. I mean it's going to take time, we have to clarify, it's going to take time. But rather than having them have to go down to the NWSL in America or overseas to Europe to get that professional football, they can now start to build that in country and it really helps when you're thinking about developing youth

and developing pathways to have the kids being able to come into set-ups where they can have pro contracts at a young age and stuff like that. It's going to be massive for them. So very exciting. Yeah, and we'll cover it a bit more yet next week I'm hoping to get a Canadian on to talk to us about it and tell us all the goss and keep us up to date on what's happening there. But yeah I would just clarify it does need to be given time it's not going to be a success overnight but I think this TV deal is big it's huge it's eyes on the sport, right? And we've seen what's happening in North America in sport anyway, in terms of what we've seen with the basketball and the hockey and the NWSL. So there's a market there for it. So you've got to be pretty excited about what's going to happen. hearing more about it next week. Everybody get home safe, apart from Susie, who's the only one of us, safely tucked up at home. Try and turn left, Tom, if you can. Just race

past Sophie. Nod your out the way and go left on the plane. I'm looking forward to hearing about the luxuries that have been in the lounge when I catch up with Sophie next. But yeah, safe travels everyone and really lovely to speak to you all. Take care, Soph. Thanks for having me. I'll never live this down. Rice, rice, baby, Susie Rack.

Rice, rice, baby. I have something else to tell you, Sus, by the way. It's all down to me, that three nil win last night for you because I did a little tour of the Bernabeu yesterday, my time in Madrid and I feel like I jinxed around Madrid just for you and Arsenal. Can you go and do the tour at the Emirates because that would be really really helpful I'd really appreciate that make that happen thanks. All right okay I'll book it in next week, see you later team. Keep having your say by sending in your questions via social media or emailing us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com week. See you later team. composition was by Laura Iadel, our executive producer with Salamat.