The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - A spectacle at Wembley despite the stalemate – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Emma Duffy, and Tom Garry to round up the latest international fixtures and more

This is The Guardian. free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers, and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Hyped up games finish goalless, right? Always the way. But a spectacle at Wembley nonetheless in front of a record crowd as the USA came to town. Handball, chess ball, what's the difference?

That VAR discussion rears its head again. We'll catch up with the Euro 2025 playoffs and discuss another new broadcast deal. All that, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Susie Rack, how were the Football Supporters Association Awards last night? We were nominated, weren't we? Did we win?

No, we didn't. Always the bridesmaids. To be fair, I think the category of women's football media is a little bit of a strange one because you had a load of podcasts and then the BBC Women's Football Show. So a TV show up against a load of podcasts and BBC Women's Football Show won.

And I just think it was a little bit of a weird category. I get it. I think it makes sense to have some kind of women's award separately because I was nominated for Footballer of the Year for the seventh year in a row. But when it's a public vote, I'm never going to beat a Jonathan Wilson who won it or Johnny Liu who is up on the list

or a Daniel Story or someone like that because their followings are just that much bigger online that it's just impossible for myself or charlotte harper who are on the list as women's football writers like to uh compete with that in a public vote so like it's it's a great event and it's like my favorite one because you know it's voted for by the supporters but uh yeah they haven't quite worked out a way to get women's football properly recognized and categories right but also it's quite long so you don't want too many awards so it's it's complicated but we didn't win you're always a winner in our eyes suzy you are the winner as is tom gary but are you back from doncaster or

are you coming to us from a hotel room after watching the England under-23s? I'm back from Doncaster, but I was late home. Various different motorways decided they wanted to close last night, but I did make it back across and I'm going back across again tonight to Sheffield. Really looking forward to the game, England-Switzerland. The 23s was dramatic. Very late penalty save, but thankfully,

home now, home in the warm and yeah, a new day. You're bonkers. You should have just stayed there. Doncaster's about

half an hour away from Sheffield, not even that. Madness. This is true. This is my fault. Someone's got to walk the lovely dog.

Oh, yeah, that's a very good point. emma duffy i don't know how nervous you're feeling big night tonight in the euro 2025 playoffs how are you feeling yeah a little bit nervous not gonna lie but really looking forward to it should be a historic occasion and obviously fantastic to see ireland in action at the aviva in front of 25 000 up to 30 000 fans should be a big one so yeah the nerves are kicking in but looking forward to it to see Ireland in action at the Aviva in front of 25,000 up to 30,000 fans. Should be a big one. So yeah, the nerves are kicking in,

but looking forward to it. And also congrats on the nomination. Fantastic news. Oh, thank you very much. We were very proud of it, that's for sure. And I don't mind being a bridesmaid. It's fine. They tend to have nicer dresses, to be honest.

Right, so let's rewind to Friday night night shall we a new world record crowd for a friendly an epic pre-match light show first against second in the world the two best coaches in the game going head to head it was all teed up absolutely perfectly at wembley wasn't it on friday night as serena veegman's England welcomed Emma Hayes USA to town. The last time the Lionesses had played there, we were treated to a seven-goal thriller, but this time it was a much more tightly contested affair and it finished in a goalless draw.

The USA did have more possession, they created more chances, but England put in a really resilient defensive performance. This is what Emma Hayes had to say. I'm disappointed we didn't win as I felt we were the better team. I thought England's full-backs defended really well. We lacked a little bit of the killer piece. Was she right to be disappointed, Susie? What did you make of the game?

Did it live up to the hype? I don't think it lived up to the hype. They never do, do they? It's always the way. Obviously, a nil-n0 draw wasn't what anyone wanted. But, you know, I don't think it was a terrible game either. Like, I thought it was quite an interesting game tactically. I thought defensively both teams were excellent.

I thought it was interesting to see Liam Williamson line up at the back with Jess Carter, with Alex Greenwood out wide and sort of dropping into a back three when they were in uh possession you know then lucy bronze dropping back into a back four when they were like out of possession i thought that was all interesting like experimentation and something a bit different millie bright on the bench was interesting but i thought naomi gorma was beyond brilliant for the US and they were really organized at the back as well but like I mean you know with Lauren Hemp missing with Lauren James missing Mal Swanson

Trinity Roblin and Sophia Smith for the US like it's going to be massively difficult to you know kind of find that creative difference up top right like um neither neither sort of kind of carved out any really clear chances and when you've got the defenses playing that well it's going to be really really difficult to kind of make something happen without your sort of super superstars so yeah like i think everyone was a little bit disappointed but also i think everyone was a little bit relieved as well because i think there was a real fear that you know this could be a unpleasant defeat or something like that for eng England and actually it was far more balanced than I think many had expected um although I do think the USA edged it like I thought they looked

the better side particularly when they're in possession much cleaner in their passing and control and turning over the ball less easy and things. But yeah, didn't live up to the hype because the hype was big. And then the pre-match did like fireworks and like laser light show and things like that really like got you in the mood. And then it was just a little bit flat. This is what I always fear about all these light shows and pyrotechnics and things like that. Because this is like, I know that they're trying to make it

an entertainment product, but for me, it's about the football first and that they're trying to make it an entertainment product but for me it's about the about the football first and foremost oh i love it well i know i know you do i know you do and and i wish i wish i wasn't so i'm not grouchy about i don't mind it i'm just a bit apathetic to it um i'm just a bit like oh that's nice uh could you not wait till November the 5th? That was last month. Equally. Tom, Susie mentioned there all the changes in the different defensive line-up. Was it the best defensive performance we've seen from England in a while? I think it was the best defensive performance that I've seen probably, well, certainly since the game against Sweden in July,

but perhaps even more than that. It was very encouraging that England appeared to have learnt from some of the mistakes against Sweden in July, but perhaps even more than that. It was very encouraging that England appeared to have learnt from some of the mistakes against Germany. I suppose my worry is that in order to do so, it took away a lot of the creativity and the attacking endeavour that we would prefer to see from England.

So, you know, the wingers, for example, were very deep and sitting in quite a defensive line. And I suppose that helped England stop the USA. But what, and I think the fans would hope that England can find a way to do both but yeah it was definitely more less error prone it was much tidier and I think that with the combinations we saw you know I was surprised to see Greenwood left back and Carter at centre back but that that seemed to work quite well so it probably given Serena Vigman a lot of food for thought for how they can approach the Euros.

Emma, we mentioned last week that both teams without key players, so managers had to try different things, obviously. But Jess Naz was handed only her second start. Jess Park also got the nod as well. Been crying out for some of this creative talent that we've got. It almost played into Serena Wiegmann's hands in a way with the injuries. But how worrying was the lack of creativity going forward, do you think? Yeah, I definitely think it will have been a bit of a concern.

But I guess you do have to look at the bigger picture too, like the players that were missing, James, Hemp, Ellatoon, three big attacking threats. And it's obviously going to cause upheaval and change you consider the opposition then the US defence pretty well organized it's going to be difficult to break down but I do think the lack of clear good chances is a worry for England I think it was four shots on target and their xg was 0.07 now I'm not a big xg fan but it was significant that it was the lowest under Wiegman to date I thought Russo

worked really hard but the link-up play just wasn't there for a lot of the game and again that comes back to kind of building the new relationships it doesn't just happen overnight and I think it was a tricky night for Jess Naz like it just didn't click like I thought she covered for Lucy Bronze quite well she had some tough moments, like you mentioned, Girma. Susie mentioned Girma, who I thought was absolutely excellent. She dispossessed Naz early on for a big moment. I think she kind of held her own in the game in all, but just didn't offer that threat or that creative spark, I guess.

I think she has potential, but I'm not sure if we'll see her starting regularly. And then in terms of Park, likewise, it was kind of a difficult one for her. I think she's an excellent footballer. She's so technical, creative. She did show flashes of brilliance, but I suppose just the kind of disjointed performance from England at times didn't help. Yeah, I think she's a huge talent and she will play a big role for England going forward.

And I noticed that she did the pre-match press conference with Wiegmann yesterday, so I'd imagine she'll start against Switzerland. Another big chance for her. Feels like an audition a little bit, doesn't it, ahead of the Euros? Because it's not just about the players that are going to make it, it's also the players that aren't maybe ready yet. There's lots of tough decisions ahead for sure. Lucy Bronze was awarded Player of the Match for England, though.

She was the standout, you have to say, Susie. Oh, yeah, I thought she was absolutely brilliant. I think it's been really, really interesting to watch her reintegration into English football after playing in Lyon and Barcelona where you know let's face it the defensive challenge week in week out isn't you know as strong as it maybe could be and I think we're seeing her like at her best um I thought it took a little bit of time at the start of the season sort of kind of get into the swing of things but she's looking brilliant for Chelsea and looking brilliant for England and I thought I actually thought she combined quite well with Jess Naz.

Like we spoke to Jess in the press, in the mix zone afterwards about that. And she was like, Lucy said to me before the game, don't worry, I'm going to be the little microphone in your ear, like telling you what to do and where to go. Then we asked Serena about that. And she was talking about the significance of Lucy in sort of being a coach on the pitch and you know able to sort of dictate things a little bit like and organize the team a little bit you know from a little bit further in from the sidelines and

Serena and uh Ayan are able to get and like that I thought that was really interesting like she's really taking a leadership role in the team from a coaching point of view, not just from a, you know, you are the more senior person, but also then she is matching that with incredible performances. So she's like coaching Jess Naz and the team for a game whilst also performing incredibly well herself, which, yeah, I thought she was fantastic. We've talked about all the players missing for the Lionesses, Tom, but USA were in a similar situation, obviously, weren't they?

No, Mallory Swanson, Sophia Smith and Trinity Rodman. So, Lynn Williams, Alicia Thompson and Emma Sears came in. What did you make of their performance? Impressive, actually. I appreciate they didn't score, but I think it showed the depth that the US have. I think that given that England were missing, you know, three forwards, you could say in Lauren Hemp, Lauren James and Ella Toon,

I would say that if you were comparing the two teams sort of second choice forwards, the Americans are stronger. I think Emma Hayes will take a huge amount of encouragement from the fact that she was able to come to Wembley without triple espresso, as they nickname themselves, stronger. I think Emma Hayes will take a huge amount of encouragement from the fact that she was able to come to Wembley without triple espresso, as they nicknamed themselves, and still look like an elite world-class side. They weren't the fireworks, and part of that was because England did well to stifle them. But I think if you're Emma Hayes, you've been in the job six months and won Olympic gold, and now you're having

a chance to just experiment a little bit more learn a bit more about the the depth of I mean she's got such a talent pool available to her uh I thought I thought Williams in particular I think there was a almost like I can't think of the right word which is not great as on a podcast goodness but there was almost sort of like a she took on a leadership role in the in in the way that they were playing like it was almost like grabbing not grabbing things by the scruff of the neck but there was I think she she appreciated the opportunity she stepped up yes thank you this is why you're I knew what you meant but stepped up to the mantle and sort of really, really grabbed the opportunity. And I was impressed with the way that they made it look as though they weren't missing so many key stars.

And I suppose England now, they need to aspire to get to a stage where, if, God forbid, England were not to be able to have Rousseau and Mead, etc., etc., that England could still look as formidable. This is where it becomes interesting actually Emma doesn't it because you know both teams are in very different stages in their journey the USA don't actually have a tournament until the CONCACAF Women's Championship in 2026 and then the World Cup in 2027 but England are seven months out from the Euros. What would both managers have learned from it? And will perhaps Serena Wiegmann be slightly more worried, bearing in mind that their tournament is more imminent? Yeah, I'm not too sure.

I was kind of thinking about this after the game, like who will have come out of it happier? I don't think Serena Began would be too unhappy in terms of in the present and not losing that was huge both will have learned a lot against top opposition

obviously the US have less opportunity for that England had Branson Sweden and of course Ireland in the Euro qualifiers and both will know that there's a lot of work to do and improvements to be made ahead of their major tournaments. Yes, the timing does come into it for England, like seven months until the Euros.

You won't find that coming. I do think defensively, as Tom said, that Wiegmann will be much more pleased than last month against Germany and even against South Africa at times. It was good to see changes there, like Kercher obviously with Williamson, Millie Bright held in reserve and to still come away with a clean sheet

and to get the result and to look compact thought as well it was a big night for Mary Earps who was excellent I think was she player of the match

or was it Lucy Bronze Lucy Bronze not that that it was Lucy Bronze in the end but Earps obviously with some fantastic saves who's been in competition with Hannah Hampton

so that would be really interesting to see how that kind of battle pans out over the next couple of months. And then for Hayes I do think it was a good test that she continues

to kind of settle into that new role. She obviously would have loved to win but I think she'll still take an awful lot from it particularly with younger talent stepping up

and coping well without some key players and it'll be very interesting to see how they fare tonight against the Netherlands and then into the She Believes Cup in February. Yeah oh god I'd forgotten about the She Believes Cup in February of course listen we've got to mention the VAR incident Susie let's not dwell on it too much because I think it's just obvious for all of us isn't it but the referee pointed to the spot for handball against Alex Greenwood. Replays instantly showed it hit her chest, but the referee was still called to the monitor

before watching it from various angles before making her decision. I mean, it does show another call for VAR perhaps in the women's game, but also really worrying how long it took to come to the conclusion. And perhaps, you know, just again, standing up for referees, perhaps it's because they're not used to using it that much and so they wanted to go through every single step with it, but it was a bit painful. Very painful, way too long.

I mean, like, it was just so obvious from, I mean, just with the naked eye to see that it had come off the chest, to then have it shown again and again and again and again, and just wait until the decision is made for the referee to go and look at the screen and then come away from that when it is that obvious. I don't think, like, I mean, when it's that clear, I don't even think you need the referee to look at it. You can just say it's obvious, like, obviously come off her chest,

like, you know know just move on but yeah like I mean yeah teething problems hopefully those kind of things are ironed out in the long run in both the men's and women's game like because we don't want really really long stoppages but um yeah it was yeah that's that was the only issue it was great it was you know the right decision a good one but uh yeah, just way, way, way too long. Yeah. Let's look ahead to Tuesday night. Now, look, we're not going to focus too much on this because it's happening in a few hours time by the time the pod comes out.

So, you know, it'll be out of date. So let's not dwell too much. But it's going to be a very different game, isn't it? England against Switzerland at Bramall Lane. It's the final match of 2024 for the Lionesses. Switzerland come into it off the back of a 6-0 defeat to Germany. They're without their captain, Leo Volte, as well, who had to have surgery for an abscess.

England also without Chloe Kelly, who got concussion on Friday night, and Frank Kirby picked up a calf injury towards the end of the game. How different is the game and what different challenges, Tom, does it pose? Yeah, a completely different kind of game here against a Switzerland team that England will be expected to beat on the one hand. But this is going to be, as we understand it,

a really experimental England side, much more so than we usually see under Serena Wiegmann. At this stage, obviously, we don't know the team, but from what I'm hearing, we could see as many as eight, nine, maybe even ten changes. Wouldn't be surprised if we see debuts for Ruby Mace and Laura Blinkelder-Brown,

which would be quite a bold move from Vigman because they're so young. But I asked her yesterday in the press conference if they were ready to play, and she was adamant, yes, they are ready. They're not just here as training players, they're ready and I think this could look entirely different to the team that we saw

on Saturday with lots of youth, I think we'll see Grace Clinton, I think that we will see we could even see Gabby George get a chance again for the first call up in two years and I think we might see her play so it's a huge opportunity for so many people, the last friendly before

these six Nations League games, to stake their claim for places at the Euros. And I'm just fascinated to see how they get on, a team that haven't really played together before, getting the chance to show

what they can do against a side ranked 25th in the world. But there's still a decent team there, so it's not going to be an easy game. And I guess they were bowl beaten by Germany, but they've had some really good results over the last year and a Pearson Harger. So I'm fascinated.

I'm absolutely fascinated by, by this match tonight. This is what friendlies are for. Experimentation. See what you've got in a, in a competitive environment for sure. What about Aggie Beaver Jones, Emma?

You know, fans have been calling for her to be given a chance. Do you reckon she will be? And why should she be? Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm sure Tom has a better place than myself or Susie to give you the update on that one. But I suppose she is an exciting talent. She obviously offers that kind of direct run in the speed, the natural finish. And I think people are intrigued

to see her with Russo. I'm not sure it's something we will see this evening, but it is something that hopefully we will see down the line. But as mentioned, this is England's last chance to really experiment before the Euros, obviously heading to the Nations League next year. And there's certainly

opportunity for it so yeah really excited to see the starting XI I'm not sure I'll see it in the moment tonight but it's something that I will definitely

reflect on yesterday and watch or tomorrow and watch back but yeah should be an exciting exciting contest and lots of opportunity

Just be really honest you don't care It's okay to say that. There's one game in town tonight, guys. Don't worry. We're going to focus on Ireland very shortly. Just be honest on this pod, always. Listen, more broadly, Susie,

just to kind of wrap this up, how do we wrap up and sum up England's 2024? Mary Earps, I think, summed it up in in many ways and certainly from her point of view I can agree with her on this saying it had been a difficult year how do you assess it overall it's not been the smoothest of years but it's not been the worst either right like um you know when you look at sort of the runner things over the whole of 2024 they've lost two games uh france and germany um and then drawn a few usa sweden sweden again yeah so like we're not talking sort of crisis levels of of dip here and you know qualified for the euros comfortably in the end like you know

kind of experimenting now so like anything in the context of the years they've had in recent years of the euros high world cup final is going to feel like a dip in comparison but like it's like i don't think it's alarm bells time yet you know i think there's still kind of plenty of time for them to sort of find their feet and find that sort of creative attacking edge before the summer, whether they can do that in competitive football in the Nations League is going to be interesting. I think this year is just a bit of a meh year. But like next year, 2025 with the Nations League and then the Euros sort of back to back is going to be where it matters

and where we can really assess sort of how they've developed from the World Cup and the Euros like I think this year is yeah a bit of a write-off. A write-off hopefully that that that first part of the pod wasn't meh fingers crossed because that's it for part one I don't want to leave on a meh point in part two though we're going to look ahead to the conclusion of the Euro 2025 playoffs as the final seven spots at next summer's euros are decided do you have business insurance if not how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack fire damage theft or a lawsuit no business or profession is risk-free without insurance your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters.

Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Let's start with one of the playoffs that's caught the eye as soon as the draw was made. Wales hosted the Republic of Ireland in front of their own record crowd at Cardiff City Stadium on Friday night and it finished Wales 1, Republic of Ireland 1. An unfortunate own goal from Welsh goalkeeper Olivia Clarke cancelling out Lily Woodham's opener. I mean I think it's fair to say it was cagey Emma. Both managers admitted that their sides weren't at their best either. Did you feel a little bit as if neither side really wanted to lose the first leg so

actually advantage Republic of Ireland in many ways, having the second leg at the Aviva Stadium. Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. Like, you know, especially as the game wore on, it was pretty clear that neither side wanted to lose. Particularly Ireland, I think they'll be happy enough to come back to the Aviva with that home advantage and they'll hope to get the job done.

Yeah, it was cagey, it was scrappy. The chances were few and far between. It was as expected. It was physical and fiery as well. And there were plenty of flashpoints. I know Katie McCabe spoke about some cheap shots in their press conference yesterday. I'm not sure exactly what she was alluding to, but I'd imagine there'll be more fireworks tonight with everything that's at stake. but yeah it's going to be very different tonight i think someone does kind of have to take the initiative it could be a long night there's a possibility of extra time and penalties but just really really excited for it and not sure what to expect but there is history on the line for both sides both looking to reach their first

european championships 25 000 tickets sold could go north to 30,000 tonight and that should make it really interesting. Yeah, most definitely. Wales manager Rhiann Wilkinson said while her team had moments, they never really had momentum and they really struggled to play their brand of football and played into Ireland's hands, Susie. What do they need to improve on?

We've talked about this on the pod before. How much of their reliance on Jess Fishlock is becoming a bit of an issue? I mean, it's a good question. I think in the long term it's an issue, but I don't think in the immediate term it necessarily is. In the long term, obviously, she's getting on. She's not going to be around forever

and she's the talisman of that team that everything goes through um and is so critical to i mean she was you know critical in the in the goal for one like uh putting in the cross that was not cleared properly that wouldn't put in so like you know i think it'd be wrong to say that you know there's an over-reliance on her but like, like, they need to be future planning. And they've not really got a superstar-level quality player of her level, like, in the background ready to kind of step into that role. And that's a bit of the problem. Like, I think the, you know, the reason why most people think that, you know,

this is the Republic of Ireland's tighter win is because they've got sort of a number of top quality players in there and wales haven't quite got that to the same extent bar fishlock it's difficult to play your brand of football when you're playing a team that is ultimately just quality wise across the board player for player a better team um so like that is a hard ask and i think that involves a lot of teamwork and collaboration and when you've got a player that is a standout superstar like that who you're sending trying to send everything through that could be a problem because you identify that player you shut them out and then you kind of are a little bit more in control of the game

if they if they spread that load a bit better then that's going to make things a little bit easier but yeah I mean it's a really difficult ask to go to the Aviva and like make something happen in that game for Wales like I think you know if they do it will be there'll be a lot of heart in any win that they get or result they get there so I think it's exciting in a way that they've got nothing to lose really, because I think, you know, the ball is in Ireland's court. So that'll be, that'll be really, really interesting. But yeah, just this lock. Every time you think, you know, is she reaching the end?

You think she then pulls off an incredible performance or, you know, sets a goal up and you're like, well, no, keep going, keep going. Don't stop. So yeah, like, yeah. Over reliance in the long term not in the short yeah agreed um but you know the problem is the onus is on Ireland it feels Tom but they weren't at their best either equally to go to Cardiff and rescue a draw gives them gives them confidence but they'll be more you know buoyed by the fact they're on home turf tonight. Yeah, Ireland have been building up quite a strong record or at least looking like they're getting more and more used to

playing at the Aviva. And I think that gives them a big advantage. My gut feeling is they're probably heavier favourites than people have been hinting over the last few days. Now they're at home with the tie level. I think Wales will be kicking themselves that they didn't win their home leg. I appreciate the Wales fans aren't going to like hearing this,

but I just think Ireland are a stronger team. I think they've got stronger players. I think they've got an excellent goalkeeper in Courtney Brosnan. I think they've got players like Anna Patton, for example, who are just a slightly higher level. You've got like you know O'Sullivan

such a classy footballer you know Kieran developing so so well my gut feeling is that in Dublin with a reported

25,000 people I think this will be Ireland's night that would be a shame for Wales because they've been getting so so close to the tournament

and hey who knows I'll probably have egg on my face Wales fans sending me this tomorrow saying we won but my gut feeling

is that Ireland are stronger. If Ireland perform to the way they can perform I think they win the game. Yes, okay, but I can see

Emma cringing. I know that producer Sophie is at the airport ready to be flying out to Dublin with her wife, who is Irish, who is also cringing, listening to this pod. Sorry, Rachel, and sorry, Emma.

I really hope we've not jinxed you, especially. But the issue is, is that the predictions on this pod are terrible. So, yeah. Don't tell me that. I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry. is that the predictions on this pot are terrible. So, yeah. Don't tell me that. I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry.

25,000 tickets have been sold for the second leg at the Aviva Stadium tonight. And to be honest, whatever happens, history is going to be made. Neither side have ever qualified for the Euros. So that's exciting. And this is what Eileen Gleeson had to say about it. I don't feel the pressure is on our shoulders. I feel like it's in our soul. This is our home.

We love playing in the Aviva. We love the crowd. It's magical. You walk out and they sing. There's nothing like being at home in Ireland. For us, we're coming home. We're trying to inspire the nation and do the nation proud. That's nothing but a boost. We're a passionate country and we have a lot of pride in this team. I'd let Eileen Gleeson walk

me out at any event ever. I'd feel, you know, my shoulders would be back and my chest would be out and I'd be delighted. I love those words. Does it give you the tingle? I mean, I'm not Irish, Emma. How much does that give you the tingles? And mean, I'm not Irish, Emma. How much does that give you the tingles? And are you feeling confident? Please don't make us make you feel nervous. That's really awful. Yeah, quietly confident. But I'm not going to lie, the nerves have ramped up a little bit over the last half hour or so. But yeah, those words from Gleeson the other night spoken in her press conference after the game. I was actually in the mix zone so I missed them, but they were relayed to me

pretty quickly and I think the one that stood out was just Dublin being in their soul and the Aviva Stadium being in their soul. It's going to be a huge, huge occasion regardless of what happens. Massive crowd expected, a lot of noise, a huge moment for Irish women's football

and there have been plenty of those over the last few years lots of history made obviously reaching a first major tournament in the World Cup

that playoff at Hampden Park they'll be hoping to repeat the feat tonight on home soil and what an achievement it would be to do so

on their home patch as Katie McCabe has said and they'll feel confident that they can do so on their home patch, as Katie McCabe has said, and they'll feel confident that they can do so and that they can get the job done. But yeah, it's a huge night for the team, for the nation, for Irish fans all over the world. There's the weight of history there, but they seem to be kind of embracing the pressure and enjoying it.

And regardless of what happens, they've left a major legacy already. But I do think they can really cement their place in history tonight by reaching back-to-back major tournaments because it's not something that's been done too often by Irish teams. Absolutely. I wish you the very, very best of luck. And I hope we can get you on in the next couple of weeks and talk to you about your Euros preparation. Sorry, Wales fans, we need a Wales

journo here to even this up don't we and not be biased let's focus on Scotland Pedro Martinez-Losa's side were held to a goalless draw by Finland in their first leg at Easter Road it was another cagey affair actually Susie which you kind of expect and this is the problem

with these two-legged playoffs I understand why you have to have it like that but they'll have been frustrated not to take the advantage on home turf oh yeah 100 um i think it's a big blow that they didn't um after recent performances i mean they've like it's it was a real step backwards um very kg um you know kind of let finland dominate the ball by dropping just way too deep, look quite nervous. I thought the bench looked pretty weak as well, like really midfield heavy, not a huge number of options in terms of like game changes up front.

So yeah, I mean, there's a lot to do. You'd like to think the quality is there particularly in that midfield but like for some reason it's just not clicking the way you'd want it to you know with Aaron Cuthbert Caroline Weir and uh the uh Scottish Sanker you think that there is enough between them to like really start to dominate games and control the narrative for Scotland but there's something not quite right about that that connection there and that's sort of what needs to change um because you know if that comes together they could really like they could dictate games against some of the best teams in the world let alone you know kind of against Finland uh and the team sort of around

them in sort of you know kind of like Nations League level kind of matchups so yeah I'd say it's disappointing but we know that they can turn around a result so you know it's not the end of the world per se It's not but there's something not quite clicking right at the moment with Scotland

Tom it feels you know they've got incredible talent Martha Thomas Caroline Weir, Kirsty Hansen, Erin Cuspert. But the performances don't really seem to be reflecting the talent on paper that they have. Yeah, and I think the results recently because of the opposition, they were playing in that kind of second tier of the Nations League, maybe it means they flattered to deceive a little bit because it's nine games unbeaten, which sounds good. Seven of those being being victories including seven wins in a row but it just feels

for me as though that papered over a few cracks that maybe start to emerge when you play someone stronger I think this is an enormous night for Pedro Loza I think not just to deliver for these Scottish players and this generation of talent they've got and for the fans and the whole of Scottish women's football that needs this result. Pedro Loza, I think, needs to win the game. I think if they don't, he's got a contract to the end of 2027's cycle, but you could certainly see Scotland looking to make a change if they don't get through this tie.

It's a huge, pivotal night in the journey of this team, his time as a manager and for the Scottish women's game as a whole. So I think we saw when they were in Division 1 or League, I forget whether it's A or 1 or whatever we're going to call the top tier of the Nations League, I think we saw then that they have still so much more to develop. And I suppose maybe Scotland are one of the victims of this new format where you're either on that sort of precipice of being almost strong enough to really challenge the sides in the top tier,

but playing too well to beat quite comfortably some of the teams in the second tier. And they've ended up kind of yo-yoing between the two. And I think maybe for you for them to kick on you probably want more games against teams that are like teams like Finland you know you almost want more of these games and they either seem to be being beaten or winning over these sort of seasons if we can call them that and I suppose that while the format might work perfectly for England and Spain and Germany it it might work really, really well for Latvia and Azerbaijan. Sorry, not Azerbaijan, but like, you know, I'm just trying to think of a team in the League C.

That's me getting kicked off the pod. I've got no more teams. But anyway, let's go back to what I was trying to say, is that I think for a team like Scotland who end up yo-yoing and maybe don't get the chance to play teams that are going to bring the most development out of them, I wonder if they're a victim of this format. Yeah, yeah.

I know exactly what you mean. Anyway, they travel to Helsinki for the second leg, which is on Tuesday night. Good luck to them as well. And also to Northern Ireland. It was a tough night at home to Norway in their first leg. It finished Northern Ireland nil, Norway four.

It was a brace from Caroline Graham-Hanson, goals from Tuva Hansson and Guru Bergspand as well. I mean, look, it was always going to be a tall order, wasn't it, Emma, for Northern Ireland and Norway? It feels have too much quality. Yeah I think so I think there's no pressure on them now I know Tanya Axtorby took pride in the fact that Northern Ireland didn't crumble given they're 3-0 down after 26 minutes like a lot of teams could have folded there and then. But I think, yeah, there's no pressure on them.

It's more so bigger picture stuff now, looking to the World Cup qualifiers and the Nations League, obviously, next year. I think they'll be looking to repeat the second half performance from Friday. They posed a little bit more of a threat and they obviously restricted Norway to just one goal. And they'll be hoping to repeat that

and even improve I guess it's kind of a weird one like you know no one wants to be playing for pride or no one wants talk of damage limitation but I do think there's a lot that Northern Ireland can learn from this experience and then just to mention as well actually you mentioned Caroline Graham-Hanson there

I just read that herself and Ada Hegerberg are both on 49 goals so the race for the half century is on, that could be one to keep an eye on tonight. Yeah, oh my goodness me, oh dear good luck Northern Ireland Tom, you did an interview with the Norway

manager Gemma Granger last week, what were the key things that you took away from your conversation? Are they going to be a real threat if they make it through to the Euros next year? I think they could be, Faye. Yeah, I think they could be. They've been sort of perennial underachievers in many ways in major tournaments in recent years, certainly over the last decade.

The potential there is absolutely enormous. If you think of the stars like Gero Reiton, Frieda Mornum, you know, Lisa Nelson, Ada Hegerberg, we could just keep going on and on and on. It's a top draw squad. They look like they are making a lot of improvements. They're not the finished article yet, but she does seem to, so far,

be getting a tune out of these players. I think from what we hear within the camp that she's you know her methods have been quite well liked so far they're taking to her ideas it's quite a good morale in there which hasn't always been the case with Norway a major tournament campaigns and I think clearly looks like they're going to qualify doesn't it so barring some miracle and I don't think teams will want to draw them in the draw when the draw comes around I think they will be a dangerous team lurking in a lower pot I think yes I think you're exactly right that means England are probably going to get them

although that worked out well last time didn't it so it's fine England are going to be the team well England in pot two is you know we often wonder about who England trying to avoid and who ever more want to avoid England from pot two compared to the other teams in pot two England have scored seven goals against some of the other teams that are in going to be in pot two recently and um that you know that they are yeah I think if you're Spain or France or Germany or Switzerland, you're thinking, please not England in part two. Well, we've got two weeks until the draw, haven't we? Two weeks?

Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself talking about the draw. I know, I know. We will talk about it before Christmas for sure. Let's run through some of the other first leg playoff results and some of the teams who are hoping to be in that draw. Poland beat Austria by a goal to nil, thanks to an own goal from Marina Georgieva. Sorry if I've pronounced that wrong. Terrible. Belgium earned a 2-0 win away to Ukraine. Portugal and Czech Republic locked in a one-all draw and Sweden beat Serbia by two goals to nil. Any surprises for you this evening, Susie, do you think?

I mean, there's definitely the potential for surprises um whether we'll see any uh is a tall order I mean we don't often see many surprises we don't often see many surprises in women's football do we we just don't like it's it's really rare I mean obviously Poland having the one nil lead over Austria um it that would be a little bit of a shock but you would again expect Austria to turn it around um Northern Ireland obviously have got an impossible task if Wales beat Ireland that would be a shock I think but beyond that I think everything is going to go the way that you would expect so um yeah I mean even those even those ones that you would say

are slightly more on a knife edge the Poland Poland-Austria one, the Wales-Ireland one. Like, yeah, I mean, really, you probably could have, you know, kind of picked which team is going to qualify from every game ahead of them playing the first leg even and got there. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see if anyone pulls anything else out of the bag. On that thought, can I just get a rant off my chest about the format here with these players? In the men's playoffs, you, Ava, do them as one-legged,

proper, exciting, one-night, winner-takes-all drama. And I think for many, many reasons, we should do the same in the women's game because merely for the fact that these players have been going on for so long. My heating wasn't even on when we started these players. It feels like the leaves were still green on all the trees.

I just feel like, and the teams who aren't involved have played four friendlies, whereas in the, and we talk about the calendar and how little time there is to fit everything in. You can win yourself back a whole camp if you can congest this into one camp like they do in the men's format. So ran over, but that is my preach to the football's authorities to sort of tighten this up. Preach. Preach, Tom Gary. And more, actually, from you, because I feel like we've rounded up quite nicely all of the international break there.

And obviously, we'll be back with you next week to let you know who got on where and whether it was as straightforward as we predicted. But there was some big news and some breaking news, actually actually this morning, Tom. You revealed earlier on, or was it towards the back end of last week, that next season every Barclays Championship game is going to be available to watch live on YouTube. So each match will be filmed by a minimum of two cameras.

That's really key because so many incidents get missed when it's just one camera. And we have touched on it before. But firstly, how important is it for the continued growth of the league? And secondly, fill us in on some more breaking news that you've got. Yeah, we have breaking news that went live on the Guardian website while we were recording this podcast, which is that we understand, according to our sources, that it's been proposed that the name of the Women's Championship

will be changed back to Women's Super League 2 from next summer. So we can exclusively reveal that now on the pod. And it's still in the early stages. Nothing's kind of legally signed off yet or ratified or finalised. But from what I'm told this has got support from the majority of the shareholders there was the first shareholders meeting of the new entity that runs the the leagues now back in october and it's been kept quite quiet since then um but that is our understanding that that is the proposal women's super league too

which is what the league the second tier used used to be called from 2014 to 2018, when it was a summer calendar, when it initially came in. And then it changed to Women's Championship ahead of the 2018-19 season. Interesting little difference, though. Back in those days, it was Women's Super League 1 and Women's Super League 2. But my understanding is that if this goes ahead, the Women's Super League would not add the 1. It would just stay as just Women's Super League and then Women's Super League 2. We also understand that the proposal is for the company that was called Nuco and is now WPLL. I believe that they propose that that will be called Women's Super League Limited. So if you then put those two things together, you've got a real emphasis potentially on the brand of WSL and Women's Super League.

And I think I'm sure people have various different views on this, but the impression I get is the reason they're kind of proposing this is they want to really emphasise that particular brand and build on the strength of that WSL brand, make things very much from a global perspective, if this is the WSL. So that's the news we get back. And yes, as you mentioned yesterday, we broke some

big news about what is currently called the championship, which we believe is proposed to be called WSL 2 for next season, which is that all the games will be live on YouTube. Sky will still have the right to pick, non-exclusively, a game if they wish to do so in the championship, but

regardless, all the games in the division will be streamed on the division's YouTube channel, which is a significant difference from the current kind of one a week that we're getting at the moment. So from WPLL to WSLL, my acronym head is exploding. How can you go from W,

but the WSL is run by the WSLL and then they look after the WSL is run by the WSLL, and then they look after the WSL2. Ah, I can't cope. It's line of duty, isn't it? We just need the OCG and the... That's brilliant. Listen, I absolutely know why they're doing it, and I'm on board with why they're doing it

and why they would want the same thread running through it. I get that. But Susie, you are itching. You are itching to make your point. Yeah, I don't like it. I can see the logic of it. I can see the reason behind it in know everything Tom said to explain it makes a certain degree of sense I'm not totally convinced that there's a need to build the league as a brand

per se I think the emphasis should be on clubs people don't really support leagues the WSL is enough of a brand on its own already but I don't like something being called to like something being the you know the weaker version of I just that doesn't sit right with me and I like't like something being called two, like something being the, you know, the weaker version of. I just that doesn't sit right with me. And I like I like the sort of relationship that it has towards the Premier League and the championship. I think that's a good differentiation. I'm just not a fan of something being a two. I just really don't like that.

Do you know my only concern with it? Because obviously Premier League two is the under 23s so it almost makes it feel as if the championship is the academy version or the youth version. I also think it sounds a little bit like you know when somebody buys a house and they splits it into two like and you live at 26A. Don't live at 26, I live live at 26a i can see one other good thing about it as well like if they want to merge the leagues then it becomes a much easier thing like if they want to expand to you know like a 2022 team league or whatever that then you can do that but i just don't like it yeah i i can see the benefits of it i i think i'm i think I'm on the fence with it. I don't think I have an opinion either way about it. Emma?

I'm the same. I'm not sure. I'm just a bit like a name. I know I obviously get the points that Tom has laid out about allowing the brands. I also accept Susie's thoughts about the two. We've actually had it here in Ireland with the domestic league where it was called the Women's National League for years and then they rebranded to the Women's Premier Division and some people call it the Women's League of Ireland so it has

four or five different names and it all gets very confusing but yeah it will be yeah it's a change but

it's one that I'm certainly on the fence with too Faye Yeah we shall see I'm sure we will discuss it some more. Listen, a couple of quick final points for you elsewhere. One to keep an eye on concerning the Arsenal managerial role.

It was announced last week Nick Cushing would be leaving his role as manager of New York City. We'll keep an eye on that. Zambian international Barbara Banda was named BBC Women's Footballer of the Year last week. The Orlando Pride striker capped off a phenomenal year with the win via a public vote after her performances caught the eye

with Pride taking the NWSL Shield and Championship. And we send all our best wishes to England and Crystal Palace's Brooke Aspin, who suffered an ACL injury on duty with the under-23s against Norway on Thursday as well. Finally, Susie, I just want to talk sticker books. The WSL Panini book came out last week. I got very, very excited.

I saw your post on Blue Sky. Your son James has stolen it already. Yeah, that's fine. The issue is the wonky stickers and the folded ones. The laziness of attention to detail is killing me but other than that it's fine it's fine it's really fine they don't warn you about this parenting whoa it's it's important they have to be placed in perfectly i can't bear that you need like one of those things like when you put um something over your iphone you know like a tempered glass

and you get given like a roller to make you need to go over your iphone you know like a tempered glass and you get given like a roller to make you need to go over every single sticker with a roller i do i really do i mean i love a good sticker book um i absolutely love and the fact that this has come out very very excited about um right listen suzy i know you've got a run off see you later bye bye tom oh oh yeah i was just saying bye to suzy i can say if you need me um yeah suze take Right, listen, Susie, I know you've got to run off. See you later. Bye. Bye, Tom. Oh, yeah, I was just saying bye to Susie. I can say it if you need me. Yeah, Sus, take care, mate.

See you. Yeah, bye, Tom. You're so funny. Emma, I really desperately hope we've not jinxed you tonight. Very best of luck. Thanks, guys. Yeah, I don't know if I'm feeling better or worse after this, but we'll see how things are come 10 o'clock or so tonight.

Fingers crossed for you. Keep having your say by sending in your questions via X or emailing us at womensfootballweeklyattheguardian.com. I've got a load of questions, by the way, that we will go through next week. I'm so sorry we haven't had time to do it today. As ever, as well, a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly Women's Football newsletter. All you need to do

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