The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Aoife Mannion on winning the FA Cup with Manchester United: Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

Manchester United’s Aoife Mannion joins Faye Carruthers and Suzanne Wrack to discuss her team’s 4-0 FA Cup final win over Spurs and more

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starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. We have an FA Cup winner in our midst. Manchester United's Aoife Mannion is with us to discuss their 4-0 Wembley win over Tottenham. We'll preview the final weekend in the WSL season

with the title going down to the wire. And we now know it will be a fond farewell to Viv Miedema on Sunday as the WSL record breaker says her goodbyes to Arsenal. All that, as well as a look at the England squad Serena Wiegmann's announcing today. Plus, we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel,

the only phone engineered by Google, an official mobile phone of Arsenal Football Club, Liverpool Football Club and the England teams. Google Pixel's working with the FA, Arsenal FC and Liverpool FC to close the visibility gap between men's and women's football with the formation of Pixel FC, a collective of next generation creators and presenters dedicated to covering the women's game. They'll have exclusive access to players, additional resources and content creation opportunities to give women's football the visibility it deserves.

Search Google Store to find out more. Well, what a panel. Oh, hang on. Just one panellist as we speak. Susie Rack, hola, from Portugal. I was living vicariously through you on Sunday at Wembley. How are you doing? Yeah, not too bad, not too bad. I mean, in mourning, obviously,

about the news that we're going to get onto later that is going to set me off in tears at any single moment of the day. But other than that, great. Yeah, I know. Oh, dear. She's not died. She's still alive. She's just maybe not going to wear red. That's all. You'll be fine. Don't worry about it. Speaking of red, the Adobe Women's FA Cup has a new winner.

History was made at Wemy on sunday as manchester united lifted the trophy for the first time mark skinner's team put the ghosts of last year's heartbreak at the hands of chelsea to bed with a comfortable victory over tottenham it finished four nil thanks to goals from ella toon rachel williams and a brace from lucia garcia now it wouldn't be quite as fun no offense to you to you Susie of course, if we just analyse the game between us. So what we're going to do is give you a first-hand account instead from someone who actually had their hands on the trophy in the Royal Box, not just that though, wearing a bucket hat as well. Aoife Mannion, congratulations, have you recovered?

Thank you so much, we're just absolutely over the moon. Have we recovered? I don't think we'll ever recover from a day like that. Creating history for the club. First time we've ever won the FA Cup. It's all the good stuff. Everything we thought was going to be at Moor. Can you talk us through that exact moment when the whistle blew? What were your emotions? My emotions were pure relief. I think I said to the girls afterwards, What were your emotions? was so hot in Wembley and so when that whistle went it was almost like a big sigh of relief that we'd managed to go one step than we'd ever done before the celebration sort of launched after that almost it was absolutely roasting everyone did so amazing and then to be on that pitch

was really special obviously within that last few minutes unless we're going to score four goals in the space of a few minutes, then I've never been in that situation where it looked like it really was going to swing for us. But you just never let yourself believe that. So then when we got it over the line, it was incredible. Listen, I'm going to ask you about the celebrations in a minute. But in terms of pre-match and going into it, Mark Skinner had said that he felt as a group that all of you were pretty grounded before the match and that last year's experience had been really crucial in terms

of the foundation for your success but when you look at the game as a whole what do you think were the most important factors that saw you over the line was it pre-match or during? Maybe a little bit of everything I think being in the FA Cup final last year was a massive, massive help. The biggest thing is you're a little less overwhelmed by the occasion, walking out in front of that many fans. We didn't have that same level of nervousness, Mary, you know, like people who have played in massive, massive moments at Wembley. I think all those little things add up. And then on the day, just players that have added a little bit of their own magic, like what a way to break the deadlock. Tooney's finish, absolute rocket. And I think the deflating thing, if I'm on the other side of that, is that I know it's not a one-offoff I know that she can do things like that and so all of these little things added up we looked really really strong on

set pieces Rachel Williams seemed to be attracting the ball like a honeypot and so it kind of fell towards us as the game went on but that wasn't to say that in the first half it was proper intense really really really close. I suppose I had lots of really good possession. And then once we broke that deadlock, it kind of came towards us a bit more. It must have also been a really big moment for you personally, right? After all your injury battles over the last couple of seasons, that must have been a huge moment for you to be on the grass after all of that. Yeah, it was a massive moment for me personally.

I've had some really tricky injuries the first part of this season, for example. I was out for five, six months with a really kind of long, frustrating quad injury. And at that point in the depths of that rehab, I would never have thought that it would be possible for me to necessarily be on the pitch, helping the team, create history for the club, winning our first FA Cup. So yeah, there's that team experience with it being our first time. And then my sort of personal experience laid on top of that, it kind of makes it a little bit more sweeter. And probably if there's anything that I take away from it, it's just that football is such swings around about. It's like so up and down.

We've had many moments this year where we've not been on that high that we would have wanted to and then all of a sudden you're experiencing moments where you're winning an FA Cup final and it's unprecedented for us as a club and so I don't really know what to make of it all other than to say that my nerves are absolutely tethered so yeah just trying to soak it all in enjoy it celebrate it with the girls celebrate with the family and really appreciate that these moments are proper special. Yeah, actually, Mark Skinner kind of talked a little bit about that, didn't he, in terms of living in the moment a little bit, which I suppose has been quite difficult this season.

It's not been the easiest season at the club, as you mentioned there. Lack of consistency, perhaps a problem problem a lot of noise outside in terms of the ownership but how much could this win potentially give you the foundations to push on into the next year I think the win is massive for us because when we look back on this season there is something to show for it I think that the foundations are already with us. I think they're already there. That said, we all know that the season has not been as good as we would have wanted it to be. It's not matched the consistency that we had last year. And that's for us as players and staff to reflect and really try and bridge that gap and take that next step. Obviously, last year was

the first year where we quantified to get into the Champions League quantifying stage. For example, we've not managed to do that this year. But right now, still so close to winning some silverware, it's hard to make sense of what the whole season sits up like. We're just soaking in how incredible it is to win silverware. And I think that winning something does make a difference to the feel of the season and especially if it's at the end of the season

I think everyone would acknowledge that the season's been really up and down but I think that if at the start of the season somebody has said you're going to win the FA Cup I think we would have took that and just ran with it and so maybe we have to take a little bit of the what is it like the rough with the smooth but it's our loss obviously to make sure that we bridge that gap and the season's not quite over yet is it in the league I mean obviously not only do you get to go home to Old Trafford to celebrate this win with the fans there but you've got like a massive role in the title race as well when you play Chelsea like how much are you looking forward to that as an occasion you know being able to take that trophy to Old Trafford but also then hopefully finish the season on a real high and play such a big role in what is quite a crucial

game at the top of the table. I think it would be really special always being at Old Trafford this will be our second time this season and so it's really important for us to just put on an entertaining performance and win regardless of who it is and then on top of that it's Chelsea it's an incredible team it's a really important game for them for example it's Emma Hayes' last game with Chelsea so there's a lot of intensity around their last game for, that's not really something that we'll really kind of play into our preparations. We're just going to be thinking it's on us to finish the season on a feeling of as high as possible.

And then obviously we'll have that FA Cup to kind of parade around, hopefully. But you're only as good as your last game. So we're kind of still in the aftermath of winning the FA Cup. But like everything, a few days later not that it's all forgotten about but it's just all about the next game we're off today but when probably when we go back in tomorrow it will just be all eyes on that and seeing if we can repeat

what we did a few weeks ago which was even for the first ever time in our history yeah I wish you lots of luck for that and just a quick last question for you, because look, I know we talked about what's going on behind the scenes and it's really difficult for you to comment as a player because I'm not sure how much of the changes that are being implemented you're seeing, but what's the feeling amongst the women's part

of Manchester United about how things are moving forward and progressing? I think this year we've seen so much change. This year has been the year where we've got some permanent facilities, incredible, like top-of-the-range facilities at Carrington, which is where the men and the academy used to reside and still do reside and it's where we are now and it's our home. And so that has been a massive, massive step forward.

I think the players coming into the club are really, really exciting. Players of different nationalities from different continents bringing different styles of play. And so really the ingredients are all there. That's the feeling. The ingredients are all there and that's what makes it, at times, has been quite frustrating because we know that at our best we can be really pushing higher up the league, for example. And so overall, I would say that the feeling is kind of like a determination.

It's like a headiness. It's sort of when we can see where we want to go. Moments like winning the FA Cup give us that glimmer of where we believe we should be and we should be competing for and it's our job everyone involved at the club to just keep pushing in that direction and so I think it's always the case for the last 15 years in women's football that no matter what you've got in terms of facilities in terms of resources everything you just want a bit more and so there's that constant push and at the same time then being able to appreciate how much things have changed and are changing the women's side has only been newly created as a professional outfit since 2018 which is still quite new but that doesn't

stop us from pushing for more and more and why should you not push for more and more and absolutely everything that that you deserve um how are the celebrations and and i hear that you were very excited in the mix zone with your with your gold medal what are you going to do with it uh the celebrations were absolutely lovely so wholesome we had a little well a massive room that we went back to with all of our friends and family playing all of the old classic songs and everyone's singing and just really enjoying it it was really really really nice proper good stuff uh and in the mix zone yeah I was really excited and then whatever way I was holding my rucksack felt like I was on like a big kind of fan experience day out and like people have kind of picked that up and obviously found that funny which is nice because that's what it felt like so I'm glad that you know in and amongst it all there's that little bit of humour as well and kind of just shows

actually that as a team we're not used to necessarily being in that experience so it's like it shows that kind of novelty and doing things for the first time and that human side. Well we love you as a human as always it's so lovely to see you Aoife. I know you've got a day that kind of novelty and doing things for the first time and that human side. Well, we love you as a human, as always. It's so lovely to see you, Aoife. I know you've got a day off and you've got a million and one appointments to make, as is the case when you get a day off. It's never actually just going and chilling, is it? It's doing a load of life admin. So enjoy that. It's really lovely to see you. Congratulations again. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Huge thanks to Aoife. And our next guest is only coming on afterwards because let's be fair, she is a bit fighty and we had to keep them apart.

Our resident Spurs fan just isn't over it yet. It's far too raw. Chris Paros, how are you? I'm all right. But yeah, you're right. I'm pleased I wasn't there with Aoife, to be fair. I've seen some of that social media and I don't think I could have handled it. Did you not appreciate the bucket hat? You know what? I didn't, funnily enough. Oh, Chris, look, we're going to come on to the game shortly. But you followed this Tottenham side for so many years. I know how gutted you were. Let's park the result, shall we? How special was the actual day at Wembley? Do you know what? It was incredible. Spurs as a club really showed up sort of on and off the pitch. You know, the Box Park was renamed Broxbourne Park. For those who don't know, Spurs Ladies,

as it was, was previously Broxbourne Ladies. And then the women that set up Broxbourne persuaded the club to let them use the brand and the kit back in the early 90s it was formed in 1985 and honestly that Broxbourne park was all kitted out for Spurs you know there was sort of livery everywhere really sort of you know big pictures of the team up for the cup Paul Coit who does half time at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium was on stage a guy who's called the voice of Spurs who does loads of Spurs songs was there with his guitar doing his stuff it was fantastic and the social media and all the content leading up to the final was incredible as well the majority of the board were in attendance you know we really really showed up

and we came we saw we didn't quite manage to conquer but I feel like you know it was a really brilliant day and I came away from it thinking do you know what second out of 456 is pretty damn good you know and if you were in the Olympics you wouldn't sniff at silver so at the end end of it all, with that moment of reflection, of course, it's really hard going to the final because you're excited, right? Like there's a massive build-up. You get there on the day.

The sun was shining. The stadium was full. We were there with all of our hopes, dreams and expectations. And we didn't quite manage to get over the line. No, and I'm really gutted for you, especially because we were so excited speaking to Jenna Scalacci last week and the hopes and dreams of any team

going into an FA Cup final or any final at Wembley, to be honest. It's the hope that kills you sometimes, isn't it? And actually, Susie, Manchester United were deserved winners in the end. And I think that's probably where Spurs will be most disappointed, that it wasn't close. But, you know, United found this breakthrough just before the end. And I think that's probably where Spurs will be most disappointed, that it wasn't close.

But, you know, United found this breakthrough just before the break. Where did you see the match won and lost? And what was the atmosphere from the press box like? Oh, the atmosphere was incredible. You know, sold out. But I think it was the first one where it was, for me, like massive, massive ends, you know know of fans and far fewer neutrals than you've got in previous years and that's like the hangover because obviously they start sending

tickets as soon as the last cup finals finish pretty much for the next season because between the semi-finals and the final there's not a huge gap of time to sell to fan bases but we're sort of on the cusp of I think that transitioning so the atmosphere incredible because we're sort of on the cusp of I think that transitioning so the atmosphere incredible because we're sort of at a point where teams are able to bring huge numbers of fans to games like this now whereas previously you know we're talking even three years ago you wouldn't have got as many sort of fans in team colours there to cheer on their team in the same way you'd have far more neutrals so that was brilliant in terms of where the game was won and lost i just i think united really benefited from that experience last year because they just came out completely switched off to view anyway to the emotion of it like really like business-like

performance patient performance they were so much more clinical and smart in the final third spurs really struggled in the final third i mean when you look at sort of the stats no shots on target across the course of the game for tottenham eight for man united 21 shots to 10 31 touches in the box to 12 i mean like it's a world away from each other in terms of cutting edge and passing etc like there was just i just felt man united were really on it with their pressing game, with their passing game, and then the timing of the goals were really critical. So that goal coming just before the break, I think really deflated Spurs at half-time. And it would, any team, right? It always does. And then getting that third goal two minutes after the second, and the manner of that third goal with Becky Spencer's error, which is obviously heartbreaking for her.

She's such a good player. That really was another key moment as well, because even at 2-0, you thought, well, they've got a chance at getting back into this slightly, but when within two minutes of that 2-0, they're three down, then that's like the game is gone from you then at that point. So I feel like the goal is gone from you then at that point so I feel like the goal on the stroke of half time and then that third goal coming so soon after that second

was the real real blow that just like sucked any wind out of Spurs's sails which was you know sad because it would be nice to see a little bit more of a game in a sense like if you're neutral and stuff but I thought United were the best we've seen them this season in terms of like a really like business like professional performance such a Man United thing to do isn't it turn up when it actually most matters and look I know Spurs will be frustrated with the defensive errors interesting uh from their manager Robert Villaham keen to take responsibility for that Becky Spencer error saying I'm taking that goal on me because that's how I want her to play this is all just a bit of a learning curve though isn't it Chris for this team absolutely and it's funny because 40 minutes in I was just

talking to the woman next to me and saying oh wouldn't it be fun if we nicked one before half time because the game was really poised and And then, you know, you could argue that Rachel Williams very cleverly blocks off Luana Bula. You know, you've got to give Ella Toon credit. That was a bit of a worldie. But yeah, absolutely, there's great learnings there. And I think, you know, you also, you having that experience, I guess, wants to make you have it more, if you see what I mean.

And look, you know know we've gone from a relegation battle this time last season 76,000 people at Wembley and exactly from what you've just said about what Robert said they're playing the way we play and I think we've really enjoyed that this season and it was interesting to hear the stats there because obviously I haven't looked at them because you know I can't bear it. But, you know, no shots on target. Although, you know, I heard the crossbar crack from Beth England's header. It's not on target though, is it?

Oh, Susie! I suppose not, Susie. I suppose not. To be fair, in the presser, Robert said, oh, you don't count the crossbar as a shot on target? Which made us all chuckle. It's not wrong. And do you know what?

Robert and Vicky Jepsen are great leaders. And Robert's getting, you know, so many flowers, which he absolutely deserves. But I don't think we should underestimate the impact of Vicky either, who's an incredible coach and leader. And they seem to make a brilliant team. So it is exciting times because it's a young team. We've got an incredible on-pitch leader in Beth England who feels it all.

You can see it sort of in her expression and is a real winner. And I did actually see the team after the game and they seemed in good spirits. So it sort of feels like the beginning of something rather than sort of one big hurrah or the pinnacle. So, you know, it's tough. Of course, it's tough. You never want to lose a match like that. But I do think we're on the cusp of something. We haven't reached the summit only to go back down, if you see what I mean.

You're on your journey. Exactly. Look, we have to talk about Ella Toon's goal. We've also got to talk about the impact that Rachel Williams has had this season and the fact that she was starting up front in this game. There were so many scoffs, weren't there, when she signed at the start of the season,

but she's become such a crucial part of this Manchester United side, Susie. Yeah, I mean, also ahead of the semi-final against Chelsea, right? I think I said on the podcast afterwards that as I was walking from the car to the ground, fans are going to me, Skinner out, right? Skinner out. What's he doing starting a 36-year-old?

Like, real, like, have you seen the team sheet kind of stuff? Like, not happy that Rachel Williams was starting up front against the holders of the cup and the, you know, reigning league champions, which, you know, is harsh at the best of times. But yeah, like, she's got an almost magnetic attraction to the ball, a low centre of gravity.

She's got grit and fight and determination. She pulls players away from your wingers. She's rapid for someone her age. I say her age being very, close in age with some annoyance but yeah I mean she's stepped up in every big moment for them pretty much and the kind of performance against Chelsea showed that she was deserving of a of a start in the final and I think it was no accident that that she got that start after that performance and her contribution to that team performance in that win against Chelsea phenomenal player and it's such a wonderful

story right like former plasterer scoring at Wembley in a cup final at 36 is just yeah staggeringly good it's so funny isn't it like the total opposites of the former plasterer versus Ella Toon you know come up from the ranks, you know, a United fan herself. We've got to talk about that goal. Chris, you described it as a bit of a worldie. I'm going to pull you up on that. I think it's either a worldie or it's not.

I think your spurs was coming out a little bit there. I know. I mean, it was a great goal. As soon as it left her boot, you were like, this is only going into the top corner. I was just hoping there would be a gust of wind that sent it off in another direction. But it wasn't to be, I'm afraid, sadly. It wasn't. And Robin messaged us on X to say a solid half an hour on Toon's unbelievable goal would be nice.

If you talked about that when I pumped out for questions earlier on. Can't do half an hour on it, Robin, I'm afraid. But they say watching as a neutral, it, Robin, I'm afraid. But they say watching as a neutral, it was a worthy cup winning goal. I mean, listen, she's really struggled, hasn't she, for form at times this season and come under for a little bit of criticism as well. But Wembley feels like her playground. You know, that's how she's described it, hasn't she, before. You'll remember goals at Euro 2022 in the final,

the finalissima for England as well. And for a childhood United fan, it was pretty special. But what is it about Wembley, Chris, do you reckon, that brings out the best in her? She's obviously a big game player. And what's interesting is that, you know, if you think about her, she can do that in games where she's sort of anonymous for huge periods and then just turns up and does something like that.

And that's why you've got Ella Toon in your team. It's why you have there are several players like her across the men's and the women's games, where in some instances you might say, oh, they're a luxury. But then if you've got someone who can do that on that big stage and clearly does that at Wembley and is a big game player then that's someone that you may want in your team it was a hard watch but it's also the sort of goal that you always remember that you were there and it was you know it was in front of the Spurs fans as well so I was in a chat I've been in various Spurs chats as you can imagine and there were some people who were literally behind that goal and felt like they were going to get it in the face even from when the net from when the net came back so you know it was a world-class goal there you go not a bit of a world-class goal Faye a world-class goal well done thank you for

conceding Chris I appreciate it I'll let Ella know you've given her you've given her the credit listen Susie just to wrap things up we've talked about the future of Tottenham which feels very very exciting still feels a little bit uncertain've talked about the future of Tottenham, which feels very, very exciting. Still feels a little bit uncertain in terms of the future of Manchester United, even with this fantastic victory. There's a lot of change going on at the club. And Mark Skinner was asked extensively in his press conference about his own future because his contract's obviously up in the summer. And he said, I hope so, so right we've just created history and I've got to live in that moment I believe in myself fully I'm still a baby in terms of my

career so I've got lots to achieve in this game but the club are in fantastic hands and hopefully I'm here to be able to do that with them now add in to the fact that the Manchester United new co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe opted not to be at Wembley on Sunday instead going to the men's game against Arsenal at Old Trafford what did you make of that decision from a key person involved in this new era of Manchester United and what did you make of Mark Skinner's comments? First one I thought it was an absolute joke that Jim Ratcliffe was not at Wembley for that match. It contrasted so sharply with Daniel Levy

and a load of Spurs legends, historic legends of the men's club being at that game to be in that moment with their players. In a game that, let's face it, they were not likely to win, right? And then you've got Jim Ratcliffe at Old Trafford five hours before kick-off in what is a dead rubber for them, right?

Like, you know, yes, Arsenal in a title race, but United aren't. Like, it's a meaningless game for Man United in that respect and not at the cup final. It just sends a message of where your priorities lie. And obviously, like, no one is saying that, you know, in the grand scheme of like Manchester United the women's team are going to be treated completely of equal value to the men's when obviously the men's generate so much money the Premier League is so significant we know all that

exists but it's about the message you put out to the world about what you believe and how you feel about your women's team and the idea that you're not there for its first major trophy I think that just sends a terrible message right it's like the same as yes they're playing at Old Trafford on the final day of the season in their game against Chelsea the women's team but they've played there twice this season now I think that also sends a message more and more clubs need to step up into the big stadiums because of the message that that sends about how much you believe in your team, right? Like, if you want fans to invest, you've got to invest.

Like, emotionally as well as just financially. Lip service and things isn't enough. And if he shows up to the final game at Old Trafford against Chelsea, that's great. But, like, you've missed the team winning, possibly the club's only major trophy this season and their first major trophy as a that's great. But you've missed the team winning possibly the club's only major trophy this season and their first major trophy as a women's team. And I just think that's inexcusable

and says a lot about the attitude that we might see moving forward. Hopefully, it gives them a kick up the backside because the backlash has been so severe online, but we'll see. In terms of Mark Skinner, it's really interesting, right? Because I spoke to a fan before the game

for an article, Natalie, and she was saying, saying hope we win it'd be great if we win it'd be deserved if we win but I don't want it to paper over the cracks this season and I don't think it will and I think that's true like I think there is still questions to be asked about Mark Skinner I've always been a big admirer of him as a manager at Birmingham towards the end of his time in Orlando I thought he was doing a great job. I've always advocated that he be given time at United to do his thing. But there has to be questions asked at the end of the season, after last season, about the league form and maintaining a challenge and a lack of rotation

and frustrated players leaving the club and those kind of things. It feels like it's happening too often that every player that leaves the club and those kind of things which is it feels like it's happening too often that every player that leaves the club talks about how valued they feel elsewhere feels a little bit too much of a pattern so if they give him a new contract it's going to be interesting to see whether this trophy is enough authority to mean that he keeps players on his side and is able to do something and the club invests as a whole because I don't think it is just his fault but I don't think it's necessarily showed us that he is the brilliant manager that a cup may well kind of give the illusion of as well so I think him as a

manager is still a little bit up in the air United's future is still quite up in the air and whether all those puzzle pieces come in together remains to be seen that is the longest I don't know I've ever said it was a pretty long answer but I think you covered off all of the salient points and it is a real kind of moment I would say and I really hope it's a positive moment for Manchester United I wasn't 100% sure on Sir Jim Radcliffe's message to the women's team via the Ineos shared on X a proud and historic moment for the team that's testament to their grit determination and team spirit a wonderful achievement many congratulations that still feels like it's them and us you're all one club I just you know say us maybe I don't know maybe I'm just being pernickety. Let us know what you think, especially Manchester United fans.

It is really important to say, though, that co-owner Avram Glazer was himself at Wembley because we've actually not mentioned that. And that's really quite vital. And a number of other INEOS personnel as well. So it wasn't as if they weren't representing at all. And maybe Sir Jim Radcliffe himself didn't necessarily need to be there.

He's not not you know top dog as it were just yet but anyway let us know what you think Manchester United fans that's it for part one in part two we'll look ahead to the Barclays WSL finale Arsenal say farewell to a club legend and Serena Vigman announces her England squad for their next two Euro 2025 qualifiers. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. The Barclays WSL is hurtling towards its conclusion after another dramatic season. There are a few unmissable days ahead as well. Kicking off at Brisbane Road on Wednesday night as Tottenham host Chelsea.

Emma Hayes' side have had 10 days to prepare for this crucial game in hand. And a victory would send them to the top of the table level on points with Manchester City going into the final day Susie how beneficial is that preparation time going to be bearing in mind how packed their schedule's been over the last couple of months? Yeah I mean they don't get much preparation time across the course of a season because of how many games they play and how late they go in competition so I think it's going to be significant particularly they're playing both FA Cup finalists who you know will be exhausted emotionally and physically from that experience but also that presents challenges in

and of itself right because Spurs you know are going to want to give something back to their fans finish the season on a high it's a big home game for them off the back of you know a crushing defeat and then you've got them playing man united and a team either riding on the crest of a wave wanting to go out on the biggest of highs after a difficult league campaign or really hung over so you know we'll see which one they face but I imagine that you know there's going to be two really tough ties for them actually because regardless of the cup final they are not easy games nope they're definitely not and how did Tottenham recover and refocus just 72 hours after the emotions of that cup final Chris I think it's going to be buoyant I think it might feel weird to

be buoyant after a loss but I think you know the fact that we got there and I also I reckon it's going to be the biggest turnout we've had at Brisbane Road ever it's going to be our highest attendance because off the back of it all you've got more people wanting to go to the games in order to have got a ticket to the cup final you you have to have had tickets to two games at Brisbane Road. So I think people will have bought those tickets. And regardless of the loss, I think there's a lot of pride in that team. So as you say, there's going to be an atmosphere there that will be sort of exciting, whether it's good enough to face Chelsea when they're at the business end of the season, where they've still got something to play for, because we've secured sixth spot now, I think,

regardless of what happens. So I think it'll be a good game. We've never taken any points off Chelsea in the WSL. And I think that will be something that the team and us will want. So I guess we'll see. But I don't think it's going to be as straightforward as you might think given what stuff has looked like in the past I mean this season's just not straightforward is it I don't

know why we're even trying to say it might be right at the end because actually whatever happens on Wednesday the title's going down to the wire Manchester City travel to Villa Park Chelsea face a buoyant Manchester United at Old Trafford. And Susie, you kind of thought that Chelsea would have the upper hand last week, obviously given that second chance by Gareth Taylor's side after their defeat to Arsenal. Do you still feel the same or are Manchester United going to spoil the party? I do still feel the same. I think Man United have a really strong chance of spoiling the party, though. You know, they are going to be riding high and they're going to have their trophy at Old Trafford ready presenting around the pitch

they're going to want to do that after a win more than they are a defeat that hands someone else a title they don't want two trophy presentations at Old Trafford that day with one with Chelsea and one with them with the FA Cup around the pitch afterwards so I do think it's going to be a real real battle but I just think Chelsea the bit between their teeth the amount of rest they've had knowing that you know if they win it as long as they've beaten Spurs in midweek will give them the title I just can't ever ever ever bet against Emma Hayes's side at this stage of the season. Yeah although actually Chris Manchester City are a favourite still going into their finale

against Aston Villa but should Villa actually be underestimated bearing in mind it's Carla Ward's final hurrah there feels like too many trophy presentations and too many final hurrahs I can't quite cope with it on the final day I imagine as always there are going to be many twists and turns I know we're playing kind of cliche bingo here, but, you know, it's not going to be straightforward. And it's interesting as well, isn't it? Like, do Manchester United want to hand Manchester City the title on that one? There are so many sort of permutations of the things that, you know, people do or don't want. But I think I'm probably with Susie in the sense that, you know, this is where Emma Hayes teams shine, regardless of the injuries and all of the other things.

You know, they've they've had this time. They were on for a quadruple and they're down to the final one. And I think it will be a great surprise, particularly in her final season here in the WSL to come away with nothing and I think that won't necessarily feel like pressure for a team like Chelsea or feel like a privilege and a gift to be able to give to her so I think let's see but again don't underestimate Manchester City but I think without Bunny Shaw it's a little bit harder I mean I know they've got talent in abundance but you know she scored a lot of goals and been instrumental for them this season. And to lose her just at the end might just be a factor for them, I think. Oh, God, devastating, isn't it? After such an incredible season. We shall see and we'll be dissecting it all on next week's podcast. Right, Susie, you might want to grab yourself a box of tissues for this section.

I feel like producer Ned should put some violin music in the background as we all put our hands on our hearts and take a nod to Viviana Miedema. Arsenal have announced that she's going to leave the club when her contract runs out at the end of the season. She's spent seven years with the Gunners and leaves as the all-time Barclays WSL record goal scorer having netted 125 goals in 172 appearances how you doing Susie was it something you expected or are you still in

mourning wearing black today I see yeah I've been avoiding all social media for the past 24 hours um no I was expecting it I knew I actually knew it was coming but um yeah I'm just gutted it's like when Henri left Arsenal you know someone who wasn't sort of finished you know and is a club legend and probably going to another WSL side as well which hurts all the more so yeah I'm just I'm just gutted all of the rumors are is that you know she wasn't offered a new contract and things like that and I think that's appalling I would have handed her the emirates if she asked for it and said here's the keys you're in charge I would have gone all out to keep her because she's only 27 she's an absolutely phenomenal player she's got so much more to give yes obviously she's had the injury she's had but for me you build a team around her you don't try and slot her into holes

that she doesn't quite fit in which I think has been the problem in that you know when you've got Alessia Russo and Stina Blacksteinius playing in the nine and you're trying Viviana Miedema in the ten but then you've got you know really quality players coming through in the ten as well that are more naturally suited to that position where do you fit her in that grand scheme of things I understand all of that but for me you rip apart all of that and you put Viv Miedema's name in there and then you fit everything around her like she's that kind of like generational talent and she's still got so so many more years at the top top end of the game and I'm like devastated that they are not going to be in an Arsenal shirt,

like devastated. And I'm going to, after this, pretend it's not happening for another good while. I'm afraid it is happening, Susie. I'm afraid so. Chris, I'm sure you're delighted and I know you're probably not one to heap praise on Arsenal players,

but as a kind of WSL fan, as a women's football fan, as just a fan of really, really good players, is it even possible to sum up how much of an impact she's had during her time at the club? I'm not sure it is. And actually, you know, as much as I, you know, I'm a die-hard Spurs fan, this might be controversial to say, but I think, you know, you've got to give Arsenal women

all the credit that they're due for how they've developed women's football in this country and you've said it at the top there with Viv Miedema's incredible goal scoring record and I'm like Susie I wasn't surprised to see it I suppose because you could sort of see it was coming given what Susie just described about being trying to sort of, you know, fit her in around others. But actually, I'm with Susie on the sense that I would build a team around her. You know, she is an incredible talent. And all of those goals belie the fact that she does more than just score goals. If you think about what that link-up play looks like, how she brings other people into the game. You know, there's so much there. I'm happy, actually, that she's staying in the WSL

because I think she's the kind of player that you want in the WSL. If I was an Arsenal fan, though, I'd be desperate for her to go abroad. But, you know, actually, we need her in the WSL because she's exactly the kind of player that's going to help us kind of continue to develop the game. Obviously, you know, I would love to see her at Spurs but I know that's not at all possible or going to happen but you know all the props to her and I think she's an incredible player and I mean I've always enjoyed watching her whether it's been

in a red and white shirt or not because not only is she talented but she's got that little bit of stardust and magic she's not just the number nine poacher in the box who's going to score a goal. There's stuff that comes out that you're like, oh, wow, how did she do that? Or where did that come from? She seems to sort of know instinctively where the ball's going to be

and can produce things from it. So great that she's staying in the WSL. I actually quite like that she's leaving Arsenal because it means I can like her a bit more. Well, let's see where she goes. Last bit of news this morning from Arsenal, actually. They've announced that the Emirates is going to be their main home from next season, which is great to hear. Jona Seideval's side will play at least 11 games, eight of them the league matches,

plus all their Champions League games if they reach the group stage, which after the absolute devastation of missing out on that this year, hopefully they will be able to do that. Right, finally, Serena Wiegmann has announced her England squad ahead of their doubleheader against France. The Lionesses will host Irv Renard's side in Newcastle on the 31st of May before travelling to St Etienne four days later as their Euro 2025 qualification campaign continues.

Bearing in mind that I'm sunning myself in the Algarve, sorry Chris, I'm going to leave you with Susie and producer Sophie, who are both at Wembley to analyse who's in and who's out. So there aren't really any surprises in the squad. Obviously, we've got Millie Bright back, which I think many of us are expecting. Rachel Daly is out because she's retired. But the only big name in is Agibiva Jones in her place. She's had such a phenomenal season. Why do you think she's so deserving of this call-up, Soph?

I think she's done it with Chelsea this season. And I think no one kind of expected her to have the kind of breakthrough season that she has done with Chelsea. I think she's probably been helped a little bit by circumstance in terms of the injuries that have happened within that Chelsea squad. It's given her maybe more opportunities to play than she has otherwise. But she's really made her mark and that's all down to her. And I think from everyone that we talk to all over the game, they always praise how hardworking she is, how diligent she is

and how much she is really really concentrating on being the ultimate professional she's only 20 years old and she's having one of those breakout seasons at Chelsea but also it's all what she did with Everton last year as well that was kind of her first season properly in the blocklist WSL and she really hit the ground running and I still don't really know what her position is like whether she's a full-on number nine or whether she's better in the wing. I think that comes with time, but I think she's been performing in all areas of the park

and getting the goals that are really important for Chelsea this season. You've seen it in the last two games, she got four goals. So, yeah, I think she's firmly put herself in Serena's mind. Yeah, and we saw her in that February camp, didn't we, where she sort of stepped up from the under-23s just briefly to train with the senior side. And by all accounts, they said she really impressed in that environment as well.

So they know, because they work so closely, they sort of know exactly what they're getting from the players that come in from that under-23 squad as well. Obviously, one of the very interesting things, probably the most interesting thing from the squad announcement was the talk around the calendar, because this is the first time we've had competitive qualifying matches in the off-season for Women's Super League

and many of the European leagues that play through the winter rather than the summer. So that's a really complicated thing for them to have to navigate. It's a really complicated schedule they've worked out to get the players ready for these camps. And one of the things that Serena was asked was, you know, whether she's OK with them going abroad in this little gap that they have before the fixtures in July. And, you know, she replied quite funnily that she doesn't really want them to travel to the other side of the world, but she trusts them as professional players.

I mean, what do you make of it? It feels like a little bit of a really complicated jigsaw puzzle that we don't really know if it's going to work or not until they're into those games, right? That's the thing, right? I mean, I think you know how I feel about this window in July, especially. Not so much the kind of May-June one. That kind of makes sense.

It's just added on to the end of the season. But that July window is absolutely insane from my point of view. I don't understand why it's there and why it couldn't be put to September I know we hate that September window generally but it would make more sense when players aren't meant to be on holiday and we talked so much about loading we did that whole episode with Fipro you know a couple of weeks back about kind of the scheduling in the women's games and the the need for these athletes to get a proper break.

And it's just really in a summer where for the England players, they've got the summer off. They should have the summer off. And they could have a really good, you know, four or five weeks of proper rest. They're now having to think about how to juggle an England camp in the middle of July. And I would say for the other European teams,

it's probably the same as well. You know, the ones that are going to the Olympics, it's not ideal having to pay competitive fixtures 10 days before the start of the olympic games you know those are the games where you want friendlies to you know kind of ease yourself back in getting the flow but not having to go full pelt full tackles risk of injury is higher so yeah it's really concerning for me that window and how it's been put in but then also it means it's a problem for all of these federations right to work out how to do it and I know some people will say they need

more time off the players but actually going cold I think Emma Hayes said this the other day other week going in cold is actually worse for them they need to be in environments where they are training regularly rather than having three weeks off and then coming in for a 10-day camp where they've not played any football or trained at the highest level or trained at the level that England need. Yeah I think the federations need to have like more of a holistic approach to the FIFA windows because like that FIFA window in theory like should be okay because for like the rest of the world for many of the other continents like particularly like the americas who play in summer seasons they need a window there potentially like it's in their season it makes sense for them it doesn't make sense for europe or any of the other countries that play in a winter league so

either you need to have fifa getting all of the calendars aligning across the world bar like a few exceptions for like you know scandinavian leagues who have to battle like extreme winters or whatever but you either need to fifa to do that or you need say uefa to look at the fifa calendar and go it is not practical for us to play a window in july so we're going to leave that one and then focus on the others like it needs some kind of like someone to say hang on a second look let's think of the players but anyway we did all that last week exactly like I really consider this on UEFA and maybe that's from a very naive outside perspective but they could have just gone no you know it's because they wanted to shoehorn this Nations League European qualification into such a short space of time that we were ending up with

these two extra fixtures in July that have never really happened before yes we got the World Cup last year and that calendar was messed up because of that but there was a very clear reason why that was happening this season there's a much less clear reason why it's happening and it's meant that we've got this like quite weird situation of Serena naming a squad to cover the two windows so that as she said the players have a bit of clarity on what their summer's going to look like right because otherwise you've got players waiting for a July camp that they may not even be called up into so I think that's quite smart to name the squad that covers the two but it's not ideal either and then you've got these four players that are sort of back up on a sort of standby list ready to come in should anything happen in between who are going to have to sort of like be in limbo a little bit waiting but you know great quality

players it'll be lovely to see some of them come in actually although that'd probably mean injury to some of the others but you've got Liverpool's Missy Boekearns, Tottenham's Jess Naz, Southampton goalkeeper Kayla Rendell and Man United's Maya Leticia who all have had really really strong seasons so that's also going to be great isn't it? I think it shows the development pathway as well, right? So, I mean, when we were in Marbella back in February and the two camps were so lined up, the under-23s and the senior camp, and they were training together at times and they were living in the same hotel. And it kind of really points to that kind of match darkness between the two.

And the fact that you've got, you know, really good experience for Kayla, Jess, Maya and Missy Bo to come in and they'll be training with the squad at St. George's Park throughout. So they will be involved at points. They might not get game time, but they will be within that environment and that will only go to serve them,

you know, going into the next year, whether they stay with the under 23s for a bit or go into the seniors or whatever happens. I think that experience will serve them greatly. And I think that's all of the squad info ticked off brilliant stuff thank you very much to Sophie and Susie Susie lovely to see you as always I'll see you soon yeah see you soon when you get back from your holidays I need a holiday yes you do need a holiday absolutely Chris Par Chris Paros, any holidays anytime soon? Sadly not, but, you know, have a lovely time. Thanks.

Thanks. I need it before I head to Germany. So I've taken all the stick for missing the FA Cup final at Wembley on Sunday. But I did watch it from sunnier climbs. But actually, I still think it was hotter at Wembley than it was here in Portugal, which is not necessarily what you want when you're away. But lovely to see you anyway. Thank you as well to Aoife Mannion for her contribution and for all of yours as well.

Keep having your say by sending in your questions via X or emailing us at womensfootballweeklyattheguardian.com. And as ever, a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts. Sign up. In Tuesday's edition, Denmark star Rika Siveki talks about the heart condition that forced her to retire from

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