The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Are Arsenal back and are Everton doomed? – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Faye Carruthers, Tom Garry, Marva Kreel and Chris Slegg to discuss the WSL games and look forward to the Women’s Nations League

This is The Guardian. free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers, and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Are Arsenal back? The misfiring Gunners put on a five-star display against Brighton. Mark Skinner defends himself after a third successive draw for Manchester United. And Bunny Shaw does Bunny Shaw things in a 4-0 win for Manchester City. We'll focus on the relegation battle, talk fixture clashes, waxworks and goats.

Plus, we'll take your questions as always. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, what a panel we have today. Late sub for Susie. Superstar Tom Gary, how are you? I'm very well, thank you very much. I have a very patient dog who's just agreed to pause Pod for Susie, superstar Tom Gary. How are you? I'm very well, thank you very much. I have a very patient dog who's just agreed to pause his sprint around the field for a couple of hours,

and I'm doing very well, thank you. Yeah, had a great, good weekend. Man City on Friday and then Liverpool on Sunday are now rearing for a Champions League week, so all good. Excellent. Well, we're very, very grateful for you stepping in. Get well soon, Susie. Marva Creel, how are you doing? We were talking about you on last week's pod. Yeah, I've appreciated all the shout outs, all the shout outs of commiserations, shall we say.

I've felt deeply and I've needed, so thank you for that. Excellent, excellent. I hope you've healed, healed this week Chris Sleg, how are you doing? Yeah, a bit depressing to be here off the back of a 4-0 defeat for Spurs and Arsenal ominously clicking into gear ahead of a North London derby but hey-ho Isn't that always the way? Spursy being Spursy Right, over to the first part of the season We've focused on the goings-on at the top of the WSL, haven't we?

This week, we thought it was time to cast an eye over the teams who will be potentially involved in the fascinating relegation battle that's starting to take shape. So four of the bottom five played each other this weekend and now just two points

separate Leicester City in eighth and Everton, who are propping up the table. Sorry, Marva. Wins have been a really rare sighting for West Ham in recent months, haven't they? But the long wait finally came to an end on Sunday against Leicester. Rhian Skinner's side ended a 15-game winless run,

picking up their first victory since February. It finished West Ham 1, Leicester City 0, thanks to a first-half injury time goal from Vivian Asai. That lifts them up to ninth in the table, behind the Foxes on goal difference. And I'll tell you what, Tom, it's been a long time coming, hasn't it?

How relieved is Rhiann Skinner and her West Ham side going to be? Yeah, I don't think we can overstate what that would have meant to West Ham, because think about the very unfortunate and bizarre own goal that saw them lose the previous weekend, you know, and what that will have done for morale in reverse. Now to pick up that much craved win is just enormous. And I think it will ease a little bit of the pressure that was not all of it,

but a little bit of the pressure that was inevitably going to be building on Rhianna and also the whole team and the whole club. Because, you know, their record hasn't been good enough. But that's a huge boost for them. And I guess simultaneously a real concern for Leicester because they, I don't think they've yet kicked on in the way people wanted them to. They've got a bit of a sort of strikerskers in mini injury crisis as well so a little bit goal shy at the moment and i think it brings everyone closer together doesn't it kind of makes the whole bottom just bubbling away in a quite a intriguing way for for neutrals like ourselves and it's uh yeah that for west ham that was that was really important clean sheet would have done

them a lot of good as well. And I think generally there'll be a lot of relief around East London. Yeah, they recorded their most shots on target in a game this whole campaign as well. What did you make of West Ham's performance, Chris? They've got those attacking threats at their disposal, but they haven't necessarily utilised them until now. No, but I think that is what is going to make the difference for them. That is what's going to keep them safe.

When you've got Rico Oweke, when you've got Viviana Sae in there, and Katrina Gorey driving from midfield. I felt the last two seasons, almost a year ago I was on your show, and Everton and West Ham were the teams that worried me the most because they don't look like they have an identity. They don't look like the players quite know what the managers wanted them and I know Everton have had lots of injury problems too but a year on I don't think things have really changed you know as teams I worry about them more than anything but I think with West Ham they will have enough goals in them to stay safe we'll come

on to Everton later you know I look aticester, I actually think they have an identity more than West Ham do. They've had this mini injury crisis. They're missing Rantala, who was exceptional last season, their top scorer. And Naomi Mouchon's got an ACL before she's even had a chance

to really settle into the WSL. But I think already, Amandine Mikel is showing hints of what she's offering there, of what the team are going to take on board. And I hope that they're going to get themselves clear too. But I think West Ham, that quality at the front of the pitch is going to be what's going to keep them in the division again.

Yeah, Marvel, we covered some of Leicester's problems last week. Tom and Chris have mentioned them there as well. That injury crisis continuing in attack. They've just recorded one shot on target for the second week in a row, which has obviously produced a bit of a response from some of the unhappy fans on social media. Are any fans ever happy on social media? I'd love to know that.

What did you make of their performance? Yeah, it was similar to what the guys were saying. I mean, it was a few weeks ago they had Ruby Mace playing up front and you thought, well, that doesn't seem like a long-term solution. Obviously very talented, but not a number nine. In this game, it kind of just seemed like, I know it's cliche, but West Ham wanted it more. I thought they were more direct in terms of getting the second ball.

They were first to it every time. And for Leicester, I think their identity is often their structure, playing it then through the wings on the counter-attack. But I found that in this game, it was just a bit lacklustre. I think when they were pinned back, they didn't really have the answers for that. And West Ham, I was actually quite impressed with them for one of the first times this season. I thought their intensity was really, really good.

And like Chris has said as well, I think if Everton had a player like her, I think we'd be in a much better position. I think she's going to make the difference along with a few other creative players that they have. But yeah, disappointing from Leicester. I think the only thing with this relegation battle is that kind of week by week,

you know, one team picks up a point you don't expect or three points you don't expect. And then suddenly it's like, oh, I think they they'll be fine and that other team really needs to worry and then it kind of switches each week other than Everton who haven't picked up three points but I think it's so close that it can change each week. Yeah I agree with you and the thing is I do feel as if the teams that we're talking about in this first half of the pod are we're still going to be talking about them come the end of the season in terms of the relegation battle. But, you know, if you're looking for positives for Leicester,

they're not conceding many goals, which is good news. Across their first seven games, they've only let six in. They've got the strongest defence in the bottom half of the table as well, which maybe will give Omondi Mikel a little bit of hope that they've got a solid foundation, Tom. Yeah, I still think that my concern with Leicester is I'm not really sure yet how they're playing or how they're trying to play.

I thought I knew kind of in pre-season, but the more league games I've seen from them, the more I suppose I'm a little bit worried. They haven't been able to put out the team they want to put out, which is really a key factor. But when they got that first win, I think it was the first win since February. It was sort of that massive, massive moment for them. And I really felt they would kick on, but they haven't yet. So they need to try and get a bit of run going, a bit of momentum going.

It's always going to take a new head coach a bit of time, isn't it? But Amandine Mikel has now had quite a lot of time, having been in play since the middle of the summer. Not many league matches, but certainly quite a few months to start to implement her ideas. I was hoping to see a tiny bit more sort of clear identity and style by now. But nonetheless, I don't think it's panic stations for for Leicester they're still in a better position than they have been in a lot a lot of previous seasons so I think

they I don't think they'll be as worried as perhaps you would be if you're an Everton fan with the injuries they've got in the massive injury crisis or that you would be as a Aston Villa fan maybe sort of surprised that they hadn't won a game yet for example I think I think you're probably less worried if you're a lesser supporter than you are a fan of those clubs yeah let's see about the identity of Crystal Palace and Everton because west of London in Sutton a second potential relegation encounter was taking place WSL newcomers Palace held to a one-all draw by bottom of the table Everton. New Zealand international India page Riley opened the scoring for Palace after just 29 seconds.

Love an early goal, but Everton dug in to find an equaliser. Onoka Hayashi's second half header was the first goal scored. Oh God, sorry, Mava, by a Toffees player this season. We have spoken about it. And listen, who better to ask than an Everton fan about what is going on we we mentioned the financial crisis surrounding your club I don't know whether it's fair to call it a crisis actually the the issues uh surrounding your club last week there is an injury crisis I think that's fair to say but what are you making of the season so far? Are you seeing anything that kind of gives you some hope?

Yes, in terms of in some performances, I don't actually think we've been that bad. I think we are still playing in the way that Brian Sorensen wants us to play. And we have moments of that that seem like there's a plan to it. But I think when you factor that in the wider scale of things it's actually kind of maybe more worrying because we are playing the way he wants to play in terms of our transfers actually some of them have come off quite well I think Hayashi's been brilliant I think Sarri has been brilliant as well Lawley even when she's come in I think has made the difference but when you look at actually what we really, really needed was a number nine, especially when we got rid of Piemonte

and Duggan, of course, and we need another centre-back. And it seems like the signings that we got were Sorensen signings because they're sort of technical midfielders who are creative. And if you take that risk and use our limited budget

on those players, you want to see an outcome and you want to see that happen through those players. And we've sort of got that. I think, like I said, those players have been some of our standout players, but it's not enough to get us the wins. And we've spoken a lot, or I've spoken a lot about Brian Sorensen's plan B and what happens when we can't play it out of the back, what happens when we're trying to play it through the middle and we can't play it out of the back what happens when we're

trying to play it through the middle and we can't and we need a goal what do we do and I saw some hope when we played against Arsenal and got that nil-nil because I thought actually what we were trying to do is just when Van Haven got the ball rather than her trying to play out the back which she did against Man United and then cost us a goal she was trying to play it through the channels for Sarri to run into and I thought oh great we might actually have a plan b here but that hasn't really happened and moving forward I think when you don't have a second option of a striker like you don't have a Piemonte who can just hold up the ball and be aggressive in the box only got Snowys who can only play in a particular way it just feels like where are we going to get

these goals from and I just don't think that Hayashi header is going to happen that often and it was great but um I think that's that's the big worry of not only is it a case of how we're playing but the fact that that seems to have actually been our plan including our transfer plan so now what how are they going to fix that in January yeah um also how are you going to fix the defensive problems because you're dispossessed in front of your own box for the opener again uh I mean to be fair you're not the only team guilty of that so don't don't feel too bad um but Tom do you reckon that's just a kind of symptom of where Everton are? And maybe the rest of the bottom six as well, broadly, in terms of learning how to implement their style of play, which feels like has become a bit of a theme in this opening section. Yeah, possibly. I think just on some of the things that Marvel was saying, which I completely understand and agree with.

I mean, she's pinpointed the two things they need, centre-back and a number nine, absolutely. But I think for Everton, everything really now hinges on the off-field pitcher. The club are hoping and praying for this takeover to go through. I think if it does, I'm expecting Everton to be very, very busy in January. I think they've got a lot of targets already in mind to solve some of those problems.

But what they had to operate on in the summer, as I understand it from the way it's been described to me from various people in and outside of the club as well they're kind of been operating on a budget that is more akin to say fifth or sixth in the championship rather than a WSL side just because of the financial constraints and and the way it was certainly repeatedly phrased to me from various people was that you know Benison had to be let go to to fund all of the incoming so essentially everyone that came in was purely off the back of that one departure and hopefully that paints a little bit of a picture of the sort of how few options there were to go and spend money on players however that doesn't put aside some of the problems. They should still be creating more goals.

They should still be defending better because there's still work that can be done with that. But you cannot forget how thin on the ground they were. Was it last weekend when they were forced to play Sarri at left-back for the first time against Chelsea? It just depends on how thin on the ground they are. But to go back to your point, Faye, yeah, I mean, I'm looking at the bottom half. I perhaps don't really

want to include Tottenham in this, but certainly the bottom five, and that for me is a really distinct bottom five, like we haven't seen in a long, long time, in that we have a group of teams who are very separate, I think, from the rest of the division, and I would expect them all to stay in a bit of a group.

That's credit to Palace for bridging that gap from Championship to that bottom five straight away. But I think if you're a fan of any of those five teams, you're right in this mix. And the games between each other are going to be absolutely vital because you would expect that for the vast majority of their games against the so-called big three or four that they're likely to lose. And therefore, really, the head-to-head games are going to be absolutely essential.

I was watching whether or not Chris was bristling as you tried to drag Tottenham into that relegation picture. But Chris, let's talk Palace because they are 10th. What did you make of them in this game? I mean, it's really difficult this early in the season to predict how they're going to get on but could those two drop points against a rival like that come back to haunt them or have they shown you enough fight to avoid the drop should they have won it yeah I think they'll be really disappointed to take a lead that early against a team with no

confidence you know that it's its knees Everton um and to not go on and win it and put clear daylight between themselves and the bottom club I was down at the Crystal Palace training ground in the run-up to the Man City game for a media day and you know there's such a buzz around the club uh the team spirit is is immense you know the belief that they have in Laura Kaminski and if anything they've kind of got less pressure on them than the other established clubs. It's almost like a bonus season. If we stay up, that's great.

We get a foothold in this division. A sense it could be in the NBA between them and Everton, unless, as Tom says, there's that investment in January in Everton. I think that Palace, a bit like Bristol City last year, I got lulled into a sense that they're going to have enough about them. They're fully on page with their manager. And then obviously Bristol City just fell off a cliff after the second half of the season

when the division caught up with them, when the thin squad wasn't enough and when other teams knew exactly how they were going to play. So for Palace to have got that win at Leicester so early on in the season has just given them real hope, real belief, a real chance. And who have they got coming up next? They've got Aston Villa and West Ham, haven't they? I mean, these two games are absolutely massive for Crystal Palace.

If they can at least remain undefeated in those two, get another couple of points, keep themselves above those teams. I don't know which way it's going to go with them, but I love what I've seen from them so far this early on. And great to see India Page-Riley get her first goal in English football. Yeah, let's talk Villa, shall we? With that point, Everton had hoped that they'd done enough to lift themselves off the bottom of the table.

Winless Aston Villa were paying a late Sunday visit to Manchester United, but Robert de Pau's side earned themselves a valuable point in a goalless draw, at least sports village. He kind of reverted to his tried and tested 4-2-3-1 formation, didn't he? No, he didn't kind of. He did revert to it. And his side responded by out-possessing

and out-creating their opponents, but they just didn't score, Marva. What did you make of Villa? No, I was really impressed with them. I mean, I think questions can be asked about the tactical matchup in terms of midfield because I think that's Villa's strength and we know that that's Villa's strength. So for Mark Skinner to choose this game to go more attacking

in his midfield felt like a bit of a mistake from him but I can understand it but no I was really impressed by Villa and we have been all season really especially against the bigger clubs when they have played and I think everyone is a bit shocked that they are where they are because there is a lot of hope there in the way that they're playing I thought their structure was brilliant throughout they should have won it to be honest if it wasn't for Gabby George's incredible recovery run they should have got all three points but yeah really really impressed by them and I can't see that they they won't get three points soon if they continue playing like that I think the only thing is sometimes with clubs like this is that when you become so sort of structured against the teams that you know you're not expected to beat and you put in a defensive performance like they did where they just kept

concentration all the way through that in itself can be a bit risky because all it takes is one moment of concentration where you don't and also if you don't bring that through to then when you're playing clubs that you're expected to beat or at least could beat then you find yourself in a problem where you're either going to be too defensive because it's a team that you should be going out and attacking for, or you kind of lose that structure and forfeit that structure by trying to be more attacking. And I think that's kind of where Villa are finding themselves slightly. But I think if you look at them against Spurs, for example, where they should have won that game and then a lack of concentration right towards the end.

But even in that game, I thought they were the better team. And a lot of the games they've played, they've actually been either the better team or up there and just haven't got that win. But I can't see that win not coming soon. No, I know what you mean. The attacking players that they've got at their disposal, Tom, they should be turning this possession into goals, shouldn't they? Yes, but I think what Aston Villa have looked like they need for me, just for such a long time now, is just a win to validate everything the new manager and staff are doing. The things that that would do for the belief in the protest as players like to talk

about, you know, if they could get a result that would almost vindicate everything they've been working on, I think it would go such a long long way and I suppose they have two enormous opportunities to try and change that between now and Christmas at home they've got Crystal Palace at home and West Ham at home and those are their two home games in the league before Christmas sandwiched up sort of with a Arsenal away game in the middle of that but those two home fixtures Palace and West Ham will be seen as huge targets for villa i think if they pick up a couple of wins there or even four points over those fixtures things will be looking much healthier by christmas in the hypothetical situation where they were to not win either of those games and suddenly you're going in to the christmas break with maybe without having won a single league

game so far uh what would be 10 matches i think there would be real alarm bells and i suppose so we are piling on enormous pressure on those fixtures, but they will know how important those are. You will not want to go into the Christmas break bottom of the table because it's a long wait until they then travel to face Everton. I think it is on the second weekend in January. So it's just two enormous matches. And then the fact we've got the international break and the League Cup break window as well just adds even more pressure on those two games. So Villa will know that, Robert de Pau will know that,

they won't need the likes of us to say it, but they will simply have to turn possession into a win very soon and these home games are the perfect opportunity. Yeah, exactly as you say, in terms of the relegation picture, the fixtures just don't get easier for any of the bottom five. Merseyside derby for Everton against Liverpool at Anfield next weekend. West Ham travel to Brighton. As you say, Aston Villa host Crystal Palace at Villa Park.

Leicester City host Manchester United and that's who we're going to talk about next after this game. They're fifth United, so we're not talking about them in terms of the relegation picture. Don't all stress out. But there is frustration among some fans. One shot on target, a third successive draw. Mark Skinner was booed at full time as well,

which is becoming a little bit familiar. He responded by saying that's just part and parcel of being Manchester United manager. It doesn't deter me. I mean, they are still unbeaten this season, Chris. Why is there still this much animosity? I really feel for Mark Skinner, I have to say. I know I've spoken out in defence of him on this show before. I think he's a nice bloke and he's a very good coach in one of the biggest football clubs in the world. And the pressure and the profile that brings with it is almost unfair given where Manchester United have come from in the women's game. I mean, in the last two seasons, he's finished second

and got to two FA Cup finals and won one of them. He's unbeaten this season. And yet the scrutiny on him, it's kind of fascinating to see. And look, we're all journalists. We make our living really from opinion and passion and the love that people have. And the multitude of opinions that people have in football. And obviously there's going to be pressure.

There's going to be scrutiny. There's going to be criticism. But what we've seen this last month you know the the pressure on Eidevall graffiti on the wall booing I think is fine and fair and it happens throughout football uh you know Manuela Zinsberger's post that I saw on LinkedIn I don't know if it was elsewhere about uh some of the things that had been said about Jonas Eidevall and how she felt that crossed a line I haven't been to any of Manchester United's games. I don't quite know what is being said or the veracity of it. But obviously this is a man who's under an awful lot of pressure now.

And I feel it's perhaps a little weighted too much towards a negative, given the results. They are unbeaten. Yes, they're not setting the world alight. I know there's a lot being said about he shouldn't have called this a new team at the weekend, that he's had a lot of time there.

But I think he was just making the point there are new players there. Like all clubs, this is still fairly early on in the season. He's got to start again with a section of new players within that team. Every word is scrutinised. And yeah, we're partly to blame for that

as journalists. But I feel for him. I think he's done a pretty decent job within that team you know every word is scrutinized and yeah we're partly to blame for that as as journalists but I I feel for him I don't I think he's done a pretty decent job at a club which isn't it's not traditionally part of the the women's football elite yes it's part of the football elite from the men's side of the games but they've they've had to come up and make a lot of ground in a very short space of time and I think actually he took them ahead of schedule in the season before last. And if anything, that's put more pressure on him. Yeah. And you mentioned that comment.

It has been picked up on by the Manchester United fans. This is a question that we've had in on X. MUWFC Tooney asked us, can Mark Skinner still get away with calling United a brand new team? He's been in the job for four years these are largely his players now and have been for multiple seasons Tom they also say meanwhile there's still no identity or style of play in this team fair comment I think one of the really big problems that Mark Skinner has which I don't know how it's going to be able to solve is

I think he has a bit of a communication problem between the things he says and the things the fans want to hear. There's been a real discourse between those two things. The fans are frequently picking up on every word that Skinner says and he never quite seems to say the things that the fans want to hear and that's got to be a problem for him in the long run because unless that changes, I don't really see how he'll ever that the fans want to hear. And that's got to be a problem for him in the long run, because unless that changes,

I don't really see how he'll ever win the fans back. You know, it didn't seem to matter what was going well on the pitch in previous campaigns. Let's the season when they finished second, for example, and had a record that was good enough to win the title in most other years and didn't,

he was still quite unpopular with a lot of the fans. They win the FA cup. It's still very unpopular. We've got a lot of the fans they win the FA Cup he's still very unpopular with quite a lot of the fans they started this season with a few wins he was still not popular with the fans and now that that's turned into three draws in a row that unpopularity is has you know increased again and I I haven't seen any suggestions or signs that he's going to win the fans back over very quickly so So even if he were to turn things this season into a really, really positive campaign, let's say another trophy,

let's say maybe finishing in the top three, I'm still not envisaging a situation next summer where the fans love Mark Skinner. Whether that matters or not to the hierarchy at Manchester United and Dan Ashworth and Zidane Brailsford and Omar Barada, etc., that remains to be seen. But in terms of his relationship with the fans,

I'm not sure how or where that's going to be repaired. You know, there's clearly a very good coach there somewhere because we've seen it with how well he did with Birmingham City. We've seen it with that run I mentioned, you know, to finish second in the WSL. Clearly, you can't be a bad coach and put together that season that they put together, which was so impressive. I just feel there's a real disconnection between Skinner and the fan base.

A lot of that is around communication. And I'm not sure that's going to heal immediately. So if I were Mark Skinner, I'd be taking real note of the things that I say that the supporters clearly take a real dislike to. Because every single week they're picking up on things they don't like the look of and you need if you're going to be successful at a club you need the fans to be on your side and backing you all the way I think from a United fans perspective as well what I really sympathize with them on is that yes they've won a trophy uh yes they've had some good seasons but it's the kind of lack of trajectory and when you watch

them sort of week in week out it's some of the same problems that aren't being resolved and I think last season there was a lot of at least from from journalists maybe not so much my United fans but there was kind of leeway in the fact that all right Russo's gone Baccio's gone that's that's two very key players to your team and how do you replace them and then they sort of brought in these strikers and attackers that didn't weren't a perfect fit for Russo it was kind of completely different and so you thought okay that's that's going to be difficult to that's going to take a bit of time to mend but now you're into you know his fourth season and that front three looks more disjointed than last season um we still can't really tell you've now

got a replacement basically for for Russo in Turland. That's not quite clicking in terms of the way that they're playing. You still don't really know where Mallard's playing. You still don't really know where Mirzawa can play. When it comes to the midfield three, you still don't exactly know who your best three is. And it just seems like a lot of these problems that fans have been complaining about,

you can't really see the trajectory of them changing. And in terms of this transfer window, and again, like Tom was saying in terms of Mark Skinner's words, I think that new team bit stands out because it's like, well, this time it isn't, you know, compared to any other team as well. It's just the transfer window. That's just what transfer windows are. So I can completely understand their frustration. And I think in order for that to change and for Man United fans to feel excited, it's some of that stuff on the pitch as well as the stuff off the pitch.

But you've got to see a bit of change and some hope for the future, which I just don't think he's quite doing yet. No, exactly. It's going to be a really fascinating season for Manchester United and Mark Skinner, isn't it? Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we'll look at the action in the top half of the WSL table, bring you some Nations League news and say a final goodbye to the Canadian GOAT, Christine Sinclair.

Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Before we get stuck into the rest of the WSL fixtures from the weekend, let's discuss some of the frustrating news coming out of Arsenal last week after a clash with fixtures at the Emirates. So Arsenal women were scheduled to play their final Champions League group game against Bayern Munich at the Emirates on the 18th of December, a match that had been scheduled since September but with the men's team qualifying for the quarterfinals of the Carabao Cup a clash occurred after they were drawn last week at home against Crystal Palace with the match

set for the same date. Lots of factors have come into play meaning that changing the day for both Arsenal teams is pretty much impossible so it was decided by the club that it would be the women's side that would have to change their plans. This is what interim manager Rene Slager said. I think it's been a very hard dilemma for the club. Two great teams competing in competitions. I think what ourselves have been doing really well is pushing the growth of women's football for a very long time. So I think this is a bump in the road. But what Arsenal's done for women's football over time is very strong. Tom Susie wrote about this in a piece for The Guardian last week. What are your

thoughts? Can you understand why Arsenal fans and women's football fans actually are so frustrated? Yeah, I think Susie summed it up very well. This was a real missed opportunity to show that things are changing. I've been yearning for a long time for that day when a women's football game might get precedent over a men's. One day we're going to be on this part and a men's football match will have been moved to to help accommodate a women's football fixture but until that day we you know we really are still seeing that subtle message that the industry as a whole you know sees the women's game as a second class citizen I think in this particular instance I have a lot of sympathy for for Arsenal who essentially are the victims of in this case of you know trying to put the women's team in the Emirates as much as possible which which we all

admire so I think you know this is just a byproduct but the more and more ground shame that we have the more and more this problem is going to crop up even later on this season I think what it would wouldn't have been so so refreshing if if all the football authorities had come together and say, this match has been in the diary for a long time for the women's team. Tickets have been sold here for the Emirates. It's a huge women's game. It's really close in the calendar. So this men's cup fixture that hasn't been scheduled yet, we're going to look at a complete alternative, whether that be different weeks or other things.

I know there were loads of constraints in that particular week with the fixture for Crystal Palace's men but it just feels as though this was a real missed missed moment where the game could have showed how much it cared about women's football fans and their own logistics so very disappointing and hopefully one that the authority can learn from and I think the other message that the authorities need to take from it is that when we're putting the calendar together, and this goes for the FA, the leagues, UEFA, everybody, FIFA, we need to start thinking about the idea that men's and women's competitions are going to clash.

The more ground share we have, the more that the leagues are putting pressure on women's clubs to play at the big stadiums, the more they need to be there in their calendar and say, well, hold on a minute, this might clash. What's the contingency so that the fans aren't shafted logistically

in the way that they have been for this game? Yeah, absolutely. Nodding heads across the pod for sure. Let's focus on the game. Arsenal hosted Bryson under the Emirates lights on Friday, looking to close the gap on the Seagulls in third, which I don't think any of us expected we'd be saying at this point in the season. It was a five-star display

from the Gunners. They dismantled Dario Vidicic's side. It finished Arsenal five, Brighton nil, thanks to goals from five different goal scorers, Beth Mead, Caitlin Ford,

Frida Mahnum, Lina Hurtig and Alessia Russo. They kind of needed that, Marva, didn't they? The performance and the result. Massively,so. They kind of needed that, Marva, didn't they? The performance and the result. Massively, and especially that kind of performance that they got goals, you know. That has been their problem all season,

where you look at the game against United, where they should have put that to bed. They were the better team. They should have got the three points, and they didn't. That's been a problem for them all season, is converting those chances into goals and creating chances creating chances actually in the first place but I thought well they did really well in this game and again Brighton may be slightly tactically naive when it came to this but I just thought they were so quick in transition which has been such a big problem

for Arsenal this season where the pass is on and they take too long they take a few touches and by that point the opposing team have got back whereas you could tell it was a real tactic that the moment you know Leah Williamson got the ball she was pinging it out to the wingers I thought the wingers did really well and just staying wide I think while I really really rate Mariona Caldente I think obviously she can play in this game for injury And I think actually having two just natural wide wingers rather than someone who wants to come inside works really well against this Brighton team in particular. Whether that will continue against other teams, maybe not so much because you need someone like Mariano who can come inside. But I think, yeah, they really played into that width, which is something that they haven't done as much.

Again, Beth Mead, though, scoring from that position as a defender, into that width, which is something that they haven't done as much. Again, Beth Mead, though, scoring from that position as a defender, surely you know what Beth Mead is going to do when she's there. Really, really good goals. That Marnum one was incredible. And I think Arsenal fans will be very happy to finally see their team just playing with some real purpose, good intensity, very direct and getting five goals, which I'm sure they'll be very, very relieved to see. Yeah, another win for Rene Slager. They're within a point of third place now, Arsenal.

But, you know, with the continuing discussion around the manager vacancy, Nick Cushing essentially ruling himself out, who we talked extensively about last week, Chris. She's now putting herself firmly in contention it feels but what do you think um Arsenal forward Beth Mead said that she's been a breath of fresh air and she'd like her to stay at the club in some capacity what do you think is going to happen I think she's got a chance now because obviously it seems the Nick Cushing's thing was you know Arsenal kind of let that be known they certainly wanted the chance to at least talk to him and he couldn't have been more emphatic in his comments on Friday that he's very much expecting to still be with New York next season I mean that that's ended so they've either got to think again or they've got to look at what Slegers has done in these first few games where the team has just got a newfound confidence

a great performance the other night you know we had those difficulties against Manchester United just to one goal in 19 shots on target but five different scorers at the Emirates on Friday night I think she's got a chance now because it might just be that you know they've had to rip up these plans of wanting to speak to Cushing they might say well look you're doing well we'll give you to the end of the season maybe not you've got to think that there might be other candidates in the NWSL the playoffs now coming to the semi-f You've got to think that there might be other candidates in the NWSL, the playoffs now, coming to the semi-final stage. It might be that there's someone else there

that they're going to want to talk to now. But she's certainly done herself no harm, has she, with this string of results since taking over from Ida Val. So I would say she's got a chance now of being a candidate for the job full-time. Yeah. What went wrong for Brighton, do you think, Marva? You called them naive earlier

on. They've really caught the eye this season, but they looked really disjointed, particularly in the first half. Yeah, and I think it has been a slight problem for them all season as they're sort of out of possession shape and what they plan to do. I think when you saw them against Man City, it was while they played really well and I thought they were impressive in terms of in possession and gave Man City a good game. There were a lot of moments where you just thought Man City should have done better there and exploited that space in behind. And that's exactly what Arsenal did. That might be a slight worry for Brighton just because if other teams sort of clock onto that

and sort of know how to exploit that and just... Obviously, when they're playing with three at the back, there's a lot of space in behind. But these aren't really the games that you're going to expect Brighton to win. And I think Brighton fans still have a lot to look forward to. Even in this game in a 5-0, I still thought some of their passing was really impressive to watch. I thought they created some decent chances, got into decent positions. They just, I think, you know, going 3-0 down so early on that kind of

put the game to bed. But there's still a lot of hope for them and, you know, if they play like how they have been playing against the teams around them, then they could still finish so high up the table. But I think, yeah, against some of these better teams, they just have to be, revert to a slight plan B

and just not having their full-backs be all the way up the pitch on the counter. Yeah, I'm enjoying watching them, though, this season. They're fun, aren't they? They're fun for the neutral. Shout out to Lena Hertig, by the way. Really special moment for her. Her first goal in almost a year after just four minutes on the pitch, which is brilliant.

Right, Manchester City hosted Tottenham in their first of three scheduled Barclays WSL matches at the Etihad this season. Gareth Taylor's side produced another dominant display to maintain their place at the top of the table. It finished Manchester City 4-0 at Tottenham, thanks to a hat-trick. Yes, another one from Bunny Shaw and a goal from Jill Roard as well. I tell you what, Tom, Tottenham must be sick of the sight of Bunny Shaw. That was her third hat-trick against them since Robert Villaham took over. It was her sixth in the WSL, sending her above Vivian Miedema in the record books. She's pretty much undefendable, isn't she, at the minute? Yes, Bunny Shaw, the first player to score three hat-tricks

against the same WSL opponent. And she, yeah, Spurs just couldn't live with her at all. But a lot has been written about Bunny Shaw's performance there. I want to throw praise at Lauren Hemp, the other hat-trick, the hat-trick of assists. And I don't know if listeners know this, but Lauren Hemp, the other hat-trick, the hat-trick of assists. And I don't know if listeners know this, but Lauren Hemp now has 26 chances created in just the first seven games of the season.

She's miles ahead of everyone else in the league for chances created. She's top of the assist charts with five now. But just that chances created, in terms of per game, she's essentially setting up her fellow teammates with chances to thrash every opponent in every game. And I think we chatted on a previous part about Johanna Rittenkamp maybe being the best winger in the league, which I know our Swedish football editor, Marcus, would love to be the case. But it has to. Surely it has to be Lauren Hemp. Surely Hemp is the league's best winger right now.

I think her stats are incredible and now she's creating more than four chances per 90 minutes which is you know you cannot ask for more from a winger and I thought that as good as Shaw was Hemp was virtually unplayable on Friday night it was just a joy to watch they were they were too good for I mean the less we say about Tottenham defending the better goodness me it was it was awful at times. But Hemp, Shaw, and also Fajino as well, I thought was excellent. Just all-round City, very entertaining to watch going forward. Great stuff. Yep, they certainly were.

Difficult for Chris to listen to all of that. We'll talk Spurs in a minute. But firstly, Marva, a big week ahead for Manchester City. They host Hammond in the Champions League before they travel to London for a fascinating top of the table clash with Chelsea on Saturday. Was this the perfect preparation for them? I don't know about preparation because I think the challenge they're going to get against Chelsea is slightly different to the one that they had against Spurs.

No offence to Spurs. Actually, yeah, some offence to Spurs. I think the defending they came up against is not what we're going to see at Chelsea. So in that sense, no. But in terms of their own performance, I was so impressed with City in this game. And all season, actually, I think they've really been growing into it.

They got very good results at the beginning of the season anyway, but it felt like some of their performances were still kind of figuring out their best balance of midfield and their wingers as well, which they're still somewhat doing, but I think it seemed to really click against Spurs in this game. While I massively,

massively rate Viv Miedema, I think what Ruud brings into that balance of that midfield just helps a little bit more. I think what Rourde brings into that that balance of that midfield just helps a little bit more I think we spoke previously about how they're kind of the link up with the spaces

that Miedema wants to operate in when Park is there and also when Bonnie Shaw is there doesn't quite always balance out whereas I think in this case with Rourde and Park they

were I thought tactically they did so so well of both of them sort of splitting into Rour going left, Park going right and operating in different spaces, which then allowed Hemp to get in behind who was just, like Tom said, unplayable in this game and has been for so much of the season. And then you've just got Bunny Shaw who just finishes off everything.

It's just sort of unfair when you're watching it as a team who doesn't have a striker. But they were so, so impressive to watch. And this City-Chelsea game is going to be, hopefully, a very, very good match-up. Oh, I can't wait for it. I just hope it's not one of those ones that's billed to be brilliant and then is a real dud. Fingers crossed not.

I was hoping to go, but I'm on England duty. I'm really gutted. I can't make it on Saturday. Very frustrating. I feel like we're giving you a bit of a battering, Chris, in this pod as your team took at the weekend. But your manager, Robert Villahan, made a lot of changes. Molly Bartrip was brought into central midfield and you were made to pay for two really big defensive errors early on this is what she had to say after the game our identity is going to be playing out from the back and it's

something we want to do I don't think we'll change our game in that way of course there's a time and a place for it if we're not doing it well then we have to start going longer and stretch the game but we're conceding goals way too easily and it's something that we need to address uh what did you make of the performance overall and and her comments are they really going to insist on playing out from the back that's driving me mad across football at the moment this uh yeah i mean that is never going to change obviously this philosophy that runs right through the club and robert villaham has spoken frequently about how they you know they're mirroring well not mirroring but they do the same as as the men's team are doing he's drawn comparisons with Aj Postakoglu.

This was a nightmare for Tottenham fans, of both the women's and men's teams. And we are seeing the problems of this philosophy. Now, whether it's right or wrong, fans will have their different opinions on that. When it comes to the women's team, yeah, the real concerns over the defence, we've conceded more than anyone else in the WSL.

18 goals we've conceded. I think going into the game, the stat was that we'd conceded more than anyone else in the WSL. 18 goals we've conceded. I think going into the game, the stat was that we'd conceded more goals from corners than any other team and twice as many goals from set pieces as any other team. And then we go and ship four and we let City get off to a perfect start

within 25 seconds. Claire Hunt playing alongside Luana Bulut. I think that was Bulut's first start of the season. I thought she played really, really well last season. I'm surprised she hasn't had more minutes. And Ella Morris making her first start in the WSL, still only 22 years old, summer signing from Southampton, as she's run ragged by, you know, the most informed Lauren Hemp. I mean, Lauren Hemp, I actually think she's underrated. I know it sounds ridiculous, but she's actually underrated, isn't she? Other names get all the attention and she is

just phenomenal yeah it was a terrible night for Tottenham it's been a really difficult start to the season after the highs of last season to lose Grace Clinton we all knew that was likely to happen but for Celine Bizet to go as well after what she had done for us last season and she's already started so well at Manchester United I think she's got three or four assists already there to lose then and then to see the defence really go to pieces in the first part of this season. And then we've got Arsenal at the weekend. It's a really, really tough time to be a Tottenham fan right now.

Yeah, I feel for you. I'm sorry. Be more sensible when you grow up about who you pick to follow. I could level that all through, all of us, to be fair. Luton are having a shocker. Everton are having a shocker. Spurs are having a shocker. It's just Tom doing all right at the moment.

Finally, to Merseyside, as Sonia Bonpastor's buoyant Chelsea side faced Liverpool at St. Helens Stadium. If you remember, this fixture produced one of the games of the season last year. Liverpool ran out four three winners to shock the champions elect. But things were a little bit more straightforward on this occasion. It finished Liverpool nil, Chelsea three. Myra Ramirez and Guru Wrighton firing the visitors into a first half lead before Aggie Beaver-Jones added another to her tally to consolidate the result.

Tom, it's going to come as a bit of a surprise, but this is actually the strongest start to the season Chelsea have ever had. Sonia Bonpastor has become the first WSL manager to win her first four away games. How do you sum up her performance on Sunday? Not hers personally, theirs. That's what I mean. There was a remarkable element of control about this fixture when you compare it to the chaotic 4-3 thriller that we loved it in May at the end of last season

of course when Emma Hayes sort of prematurely conceded the title that they obviously went on to win anyway really interestingly Sonia Van Pastore after this match said that she hadn't spoken to her players about that 4-3 game last season she said she deliberately not mentioned the performance the last time they'd been to Liverpool, which I thought was quite an interesting thing to do. But she did say, of course, that she'd spoken about it to her staff a lot and that they had pinpointed set pieces as an area to really work on defensively. And it was clear they did have to defend some set pieces, but it was clear there was a marked improvement compared to previous visits up to Liverpool in that department for Chelsea.

I mean, it struck me before the game. I hadn't really twigged in my head, but it was true that Chelsea had not won away at Liverpool since March 2019, which felt like quite a long time. Part of that was because Liverpool got relegated. Part of that was because of Covid. But of course, they'd lost the previous two visits and drawn the one before that so it wasn't a happy hunting ground for Chelsea but yet they went there on Sunday even the way they were the way they were warming up there was sort of a a real calmness a real self-assuredness total belief in the way they're playing I felt they were they looked like a team completely, completely confident

and they can now go into that huge, huge Man City game now just with, I mean, it's ominous, isn't it? As you said, Faye, they're the most successful team in WSL history, but yet this is their best ever start.

So how ominous must that sound for all their title rivals? I think they're looking really formidable. They certainly are. Matt Beard pointed to the fact that Liverpool are light on numbers and they need to be a little bit more clinical. What learnings are they going to take, Marva, from this game?

I think the learnings is that the first period of the game, they weren't bad at all. I thought Olivia Smith did really well. They seemed in good shape in terms of defensively. It was just, like we've said about quite a few teams this pod, lack of concentration, silly mistakes. And when you're playing a team like Chelsea, you just cannot afford to do that,

especially if you're playing a high line. You need to be on it at all moments. And when you're playing with a line that you then need everyone to be exactly on it and not you know, not make any mistakes. And you had a few players stepping out at the wrong time. And Chelsea will punish you when it comes to that. And when it came to the second ball as well, you look at Myra Ramirez's goal. No one's around her.

You look at Agbiba Jones's goal. No one's around her. And then we don't really need to mention the second goal because I think we know where the fault lies there. But it happens. But I think against a team like Chelsea, you cannot afford to do that. But I think if they continue in the way that they played in those first 20 minutes or so,

there's still a lot of hope for them. But I was worried about Liverpool at the beginning of the season. Obviously, I wasn't too worried. But from a neutral perspective, I was worried because I do think that they've gone slightly under the radar in terms of they've gotten rid of a lot of squads obviously really really good signing in Olivia Smith but I think they are quite thin on numbers as Matt Beard has said as well and I think that is starting to to play into it because even if you're not getting rid of your start you know some big starters you're still getting rid of some some

squad players that can come in and and do a job for. And that seemed to be the case in this game, where they just couldn't quite match up to Chelsea and then didn't really have the legs off the bench to do anything either. Yeah, it's been tricky so far this season. It's not been tricky, though, has it, for Sonia Bonpastor taking over from Emma Hayes and Navdeep has messaged us on Xchris to ask, are you surprised that Chelsea have made such a seamless transition from the departure of Emma Hayes and Navdeep has messaged us on X Chris to ask, are you surprised that Chelsea have made such a seamless transition from the departure of Emma Hayes?

Yeah, in some ways. I mean, obviously we all know the quality of Sonia Bonpastor, but it's a very different league. And Emma Hayes have been there for so long. I don't think I'd have expected that after eight games, they'd have won them all and they'd have looked this convincing. So it bodes really, really well for the future under Bonpastor

and the way that they're playing too. They seem more in control of games. They're passing it around. They're less direct than they were last season and it just sets up this weekend so well. Chelsea against Manchester City. Mouth-watering prospect. Cannot wait for it. The action

continued in the Barclays Championship this weekend. Birmingham City opened up a three-point gap at the top with a 2-1 win over rivals London City Lionesses. Durham took advantage of London City's plight, pulling themselves level on points with a draw at Southampton.

Ten-player Bristol City, meanwhile, put two past Newcastle United to keep themselves in the running, while Sunderland consolidated eighth place with a win at home to Blackburn. It's been a really tough start for newcomers Portsmouth as well, but they made history on Sunday, securing their first ever championship point. A one-all draw with Sheffield United means that Jay Sadler's side stay in touch with Blackburn, who sit just two points above them in tenth. Right, so the draw for the 2025 Nations League took place on Thursday in neon.

And England and Spain seem destined to face each other at every single level of football for the foreseeable future. There's going to be a replay of the 2023 World Cup final twice in League A Group 3. So England and Spain are joined by Portugal and Belgium. I mean, overall, a really tricky group for the Lionesses, Tom. It is, but I think it could actually be a good thing for England to face Spain. It's not a good thing in terms of the draw, if your ambition was to have the easiest possible draw. But in terms of the preparation for the Euros I think there is no better test. I don't think Spain have been as convincing as I expected them to be. I don't think they're firing on all cylinders necessarily at the moment so there might be a little opportunity to cause a surprise there

but I think it's if you're Serena Digman and you're trying to work on things ahead of the Euros and you're trying to to get this England team really really clicking I think they'll be trying to embrace the Spain fixtures rather than seeing them as a as a horrible horrible draw so yeah very difficult England do seem to get these difficult Nations League draws don't they that's three in a row where I think they've plumbed possibly the hardest group but nonetheless I think that they will welcome it this time because you wouldn't want to go into the Euros off the back of six routine Nations League games against inferior opposition.

I think in this particular instance, I think they'll embrace the tougher games because some of their rivals won't have the same opportunity to work on things against the likes of Spain in a way that England will now. That's why we love you, Tom Gary. Eternal optimism and positivity. Always.

Against adversity. I don't know if that's a good thing. Elsewhere in League A, Scotland have been drawn in Group 1 alongside the Netherlands, Austria and Germany. While Wales are in Group 4,

they've got Italy, Denmark and Sweden. And Tanya Oxtoby's Northern Ireland will feature in League B Group 1 alongside Poland, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Romania. Right, the NWSL playoff quarterfinals took place over the weekend. The season continues to hurtle towards its conclusion. Shield winners Orlando Pride continued their brilliant season as they cruised past

Chicago Red Stars with a 4-1 win. They'll face Kansas City Current next weekend. They came through a close tie with North Carolina Courage thanks to a goal from Temua Chawinga. Meanwhile, a 96-minute winner from Washington Spirits, Caprice Didasco saw Michelle Kang's side edge

past Bay FC. They set up a semi-final encounter with Portland Thorns. It was a result that meant that the final curtain came down on the career of Christine Sinclair, who we've mentioned a few times on the pod. The 41-year-old finally hangs up her boots after a stellar career at the top of the game. She leaves Portland Thorns as their all-time top goalscorer

with three NWSL championships and two NWSL shields. Add that to her impact on the international scene where she continues to be the all-round, all-time top goal scorer and has an Olympic gold medal to her name.

Marva, how do you even sum up her impact on the sport? You can't. How do you? No, she's been incredible and you know we spoke about her when when she retired from international football but for this to be the the last last game I just have so much respect for the players of that generation because not only have they just brought in so much of the game not only have they had to fight so much but to still be playing at

that age to still be playing against this new generation who have come up with a world away in terms of nutrition in terms of facilities in terms of training and to still be able to go up against them as she has been for the last well I mean her whole career but particularly in the sort of last five years when people thought she might retire a bit earlier and what she's done with Canada, obviously, is just incredible. So it's kind of sad to see this generation of heroes now starting to retire. But what a place they've left the game in. Yeah, absolutely. What a place that Mary Earps is leaving the game in as well.

She's made history becoming the first female professional footballer to be honoured with a waxwork at Madam Two Swords. I love stuff like this, Chris. It's just brilliant. It's what the game's all about. My first and only trip ever to Madame Tussauds was just after the 1990 World Cup. And Peter Shilton was the big unveiling there. Legend! And I would never have imagined then that, what are we now, 30 years on, over 30 years on, there would be the England women's goalkeeper in Madame Tussauds.

Yeah, I mean, Madame Tussauds isn't really my cup of tea, I have to admit. But, you know, it shows the cultural growth of the women's game and an absolute idol, an absolute legend. And, you know, what she did as well to make sure that her shirts went on sale. She has made herself, well, she is a household name, but she's made sure that we're all going to be aware of these this new generations and talking about Christine Sinclair and what she what she has achieved as that generation bows out it is really emotional because of what they all missed out on so it's great that this future generation is not going to be denied those opportunities you are absolutely spot on and I love the fact that goalkeepers are being recognised rather than it always just being strikers.

Too right. Absolutely. Right. It's been a pleasure as always. Keep the Tottenham faith, Chris. I'm trying. I'm trying to keep the faith.

Keep the Everton faith, Marva. It's still going. I've had a lot of years of experience. Tom always keeps the faith. Thank you. Superstar, super sub. Take care. Lovely to see you all. Right. Keep having your say by sending in your questions via X or emailing us at womensfootballweeklyattheguardian.com. And as ever, a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts sign up. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced

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