The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Arsenal and Chelsea a step closer to European glory – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Emma Sanders and Tom Garry to discuss a dramatic week for the women’s game

This is The Guardian. behind when I mean maybe a few things, but certainly not in football terms. Arsenal and Chelsea both overturned two nil deficits to reach the semi-finals of the Champions League. We'll discuss how they did it. Aston Villa and West Ham have given themselves a Barclays WSL lifeline while the championship is setting itself up for a grand stand finish. And we'll tee up the international break with Nations League fixtures on the horizon. All that plus we'll take your questions. and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. What a panel we have today. Suzy Rack, how has your week been? Stressful, but fine.

Oh no, I don't like to hear that. Why stressful? Well, you know, I'm waiting on emergency surgery on my gallbladder and it's not happened yet, so that's fun. Ugh, still. We could do a whole pod on this without a doubt I think we all need to write letters. Can we pivot to an NHS pod is that a weird thing? Yes no it's not a weird thing I don't think in the slightest I think we should do Tom Gary what do you think? In comparison to that I'm very very well so just yeah hoping that Suzy's all right really the fact she's even up at this time in the

morning deserves applause really so thank you for doing it So just hoping that Suzy's all right, really. The fact she's even up at this time in the morning deserves applause, really. So thank you for doing it at eight o'clock, Suzy. Up and about at this time, like for the last two years, actually. Emma Sanders, how are you doing? Yeah, I mean, I was gonna gloat that I managed to remember to take the bins out last night,

but that feels a little bit silly now. So I'm just gonna backtrack a little bit. It's an achievement I would say I did it last week while my husband was away and I patted myself on the back I think it's a huge achievement so well done you. Thank you, thanks everyone. Very welcome. Well done to Arsenal and Chelsea as well. Bit of deja vu going on this week. Both turned over 2-0 deficits in the Champions League to book their spots in the semi-finals. Let's start with Arsenal shall we? They got back from that very muddy Real Madrid pitch knowing that they had work to

do at the Emirates to get themselves into the last four and they did it. It finished Arsenal 3, Real Madrid 0, three second half goals, two from Alessia Russo and a finish from Mariona Caldente. And they dominated actually from the start, didn't they? A little bit nervy at the break with the match still goalless, but how did they get the job done ultimately? I was a mess. Poor Emma Sanders was sat next to me and I think in that first half I might have screamed into her, silently screamed into her shoulder about five times at the like, wastefulness because yeah, Arsenal were just so unbelievably dominant. The difference was really, really simple. Like it was so obvious in the first half that, you know,

Chloe Kelly's balls into the box were causing problems and there was just no one on the end of them. And I feel like that would have been the message of half time, someone get on the end of Chloe Kelly's crosses. Like it led to the first one minute after the break and then it led to the second through Caldente three minutes later and you were like, finally, I think that was key. It was being more clinical and in the right positions in the box, paying more attention to Chloe Kelly's crosses who was basically like, giving Olga Kimono nightmares all the way through the game until she was subbed off

and once that was done then they got it going but yeah I just I don't know how they went 45 minutes without sort of taking more advantage of it. I actually thought a half time that it was gone. You know, Real Madrid having weathered that storm for 45 minutes going in at the break would be like full of confidence coming out into the second half and might actually show a little bit more but I thought they were quite disappointing and continue with the same game plan and that's where it fell apart for them when Arsenal shifted things a little bit more, but I thought they were quite disappointing and continue with the same game plan and that's where it fell apart for them when Arsenal shifted things a little bit. I was at the Women in Football Be Inspired conference on the Wednesday and

lots of people were heading off to the game afterwards as I saw you Susie didn't I and I was talking to Luca Russo who's Alessia Russo's brother and an agent and I said I've just got a really good feeling. I don't know why, I don't know why I've got a really good feeling, I just have. And I mean, yeah, not that quite good a feeling, but maybe, you know, I've got a new job as a soothsayer perhaps.

I can never actually predict wins for my own team, ever. Our predictions are crap, Stop trying to name this. Well listen, I'm claiming it. I'm absolutely claiming it. They're terrible on this pod normally, but I'm taking this one. But I tell you what, Tom, this relationship between Chloe Kelly and Alessia Russo is really flourishing. It's great to see. They were standout performances, both of them. Rousseau is currently the joint top scorer in this competition as well. 17 goals to her name across the season additionally, which feels like it's maybe given Arsenal a bit of a new dimension and could be exciting not just for club but for country as well.

Yeah, Rousseau has really taken things to another level in the last few months. She's scored 14 times in her last 21 games for club and country. So she's on a really good run and just seems to be playing with a level of confidence that we've not seen for a few years now. So it's really good to see.

Kelly's had a good impact on that team. And I think what we're seeing now with Chloe Kelly is somebody who just seems to have had like the shackles let off and she just playing with this freedom to kind of just have a run at people and put crosses into the box. And that was, as you said, that was a big difference the other night, the kind of the balls coming into the box that Real Madrid couldn't really deal with. I just felt that this and the Chelsea comeback kind of comebacks that regardless of who was the ultimate winner, are just really good for the competition. Like there's something quite just feels right about the home teams in front of

like good atmospheres making resurgent fight backs and the first 45 minutes for Chelsea and those second 45 minutes for Arsenal, two of the best 45 minute kind of performances that we've seen all season from anybody and I thought they were both terrific. So, and, and, but no, you're absolutely right to highlight Russo, who I think is slowly starting to look like the really elite striker that we've all thought that she could be for the last sort of five, six years. There's always been goals there, but they're really stuck, the kind of all round game goals and assists now are starting to step up to that top bracket of striker that I think we've always thought she could be. Renee Slagers said it was the clearest example of her side's ability to find a way back into games,

Emma, and it's not the first time this season that they've managed to come from behind. Where does this newfound resilience come from? Yeah, it's the ultimate question, isn't it? I mean, I think when you look at the individuals, certainly while Tom was talking there about Alessia Russo, I was thinking that it seems to me that there's a bit of an aura there now with her, which I maybe haven't seen before.

And I don't think she's the only one in that Arsenal team that feels like they have a bit more of an aura in the last sort of couple of months than certainly they did at the start of the season. So I think individually that's starting to show there's more confidence, there's more, you know, sort of free-flowing, attacking players, a bit more creativity,

because I think that's just the players are a little bit more comfortable and therefore they're showing their personality on the pitch. But naturally, you know, success and victories give you that confidence. And I think as soon as you get a run of games together, that resilience builds because you believe in what you're doing. You believe in the messages that René Sleggers is bringing across

and you believe in your teammates and the confidence that they have. And I think it's a mixture of everything, isn't it? It all comes together at the same time. It can evaporate quickly. And we've seen that happen to all football clubs, but when you are in this moment, it's just about, sorry for the cliche, but I suppose riding that wave, isn't it? And I think Arsenal have really enjoyed playing under René Slaggers.

And yes, it's not been all highs, but certainly in the last couple of weeks, you can tell by their performances that they're just really enjoying their football and obviously the results are following. You never have to apologize for a cliche on this point, you know that don't you? From a Real Madrid perspective Suzie, I mean they're going to be kicking themselves aren't they but they struggled and were you maybe surprised by the way they struggled and some of the decisions that their manager Alberto Torreira made, it just didn't impact the game at all.

Yeah, I mean surprised and not surprised, which doesn't really say much. I think Torreira said afterwards that they've played the most games of any other team in the competition, which is true because they have a 16-team league, so you know, obviously more teams than the WSL and they were in Champions League qualifying, so they play more than Barcelona even. So, you know, they are a stretch side, they had a busy round of games, they had that like impressive defeat of Barcelona, their first just before that game so like I think they were pretty exhausted and then you look at the benches and I think a lot of

people are looking at the benches before the match and going this is where it's going to be won and lost because the depth just isn't there they've got a really great really strong start in 11 but sort of outside of that, in terms of impact players, they've not really got much, they're not really able to rotate to the same extent. It's much, much weaker. They're still babies in terms of existence and European competition. They've only reached the quarterfinal stage once before in the first year that they were in the competition in what, 21, 22, and they got absolutely hammered by Barcelona across two legs.

So like the past two seasons they've not got out of the group stage so they're not European elite you know it's not the equivalent of the men's team. In that sense I don't think we should be surprised that they sort of you know kind of collapsed the way they did having expended all that energy in the game against Barcelona. I just, I thought that, like I say, at the break having weathered that storm that they would have sort of come out with a little bit more confidence in the second half and that was, is where disappointment is for me really and I suppose that's a bit of like maybe the tiredness coming in or a slight conservatism in that,

you know, not wanting to expend too much energy when you haven't got that level on the bench to come in. They didn't really have a plan B, I don't think, other than to defend that two goal cushion from the first leg. And I think they needed to try it. They needed to try and get a goal and they didn't really do that effectively at all. Speaking of European elite teams, eight-time Champions League winners, Lyon are Arsenal's opponents up next. A couple of weeks time, which means a reunion as well with former manager Joe Montemurro. Lyon beat Bayern Munich

6-1 on aggregate to make the semi-finals. With Arsenal matching their more than a decade-long record of being the only team to overcome a 2-0 deficit in a Champions League quarterfinal, let that little stat sink in, it was over to Chelsea to try and do the same which is exactly what they did. Chelsea against Manchester City, the final game of this quadrilogy. Oh my God, it's like a bloody epic, isn't it? Under the Stamford Bridge lights this time, City had won the first leg, as we know, by two goals to nil.

But at Stamford Bridge, it finished Chelsea three, Manchester City nil. Goals from Sandy Baltimore, Natalie Bjorn and Myra Ramirez and they just came out full speed didn't they Tom and turned it round before half time whereas Arsenal were more slow burners and turned the gas on in the second half it was the opposite foot for Chelsea where was this game won and lost do you think? Chelsea just came out yeah as you said came out the block so quickly it's like they were sort of putting squeezing Man City's neck and they just wouldn't let the pressure go until they got,

overturned the deficit. They were relentless. It just felt like a game too far for Man City. I never felt in that game as though we ever really saw anywhere near their best. Both teams have injuries that we know the injuries have been bad for Man City and just felt like this was going to be fun. I'm kind of left after this quadrilogy of games, I'm sort of left wanting more in that I never really felt like we saw the two 11s. No Tom, no! They've played each other four times and we've never really seen the two best 11s. I know that's very rare in football that you see the two fully fit squads go head to head, but I really want to see that. We didn't really see it. It's an interesting

thing for both leagues to think about. I thought this with Real Madrid as well, that clearly both the Spanish and the English leagues have tried to target the men's international break for really blockbuster fixtures. So we had Barca, Real Madrid and obviously Man City played Chelsea in the league games in the middle of these two ties. That was probably a good thing for the domestic game, trying to get more crowds into those two games. But for the teams involved, probably not what they wanted at all because they've had these huge league games right in the middle of the massive Champions League games. And I suppose that's probably when you've got the extra quality in depth that Chelsea have with such a good squad and they could make those changes that the Etty had for the first half, that just gave so much more

freshness and intensity and they could just work their socks off in that second leg to a point where a man couldn't really live with them. And I got so many games in such a short space of time, it's that squad depth was probably the difference to try and answer your question with a more specific answer. I think ultimately it's the power in the team and Chelsea fully deserved it. They were excellent. Slight tangent there, but I do wonder if that's something the leagues will think about. I wonder if clubs will start to appeal to the leagues to maybe not give them the blockbuster game sandwiched in between the Champions League ties because you want to help your domestic clubs out. I think Real Madrid will probably be arguing that, they probably

didn't want to have Barcelona in between the two games against Arsenal. Another example of women's football slotting in around men's football or trying to find opportunities there, you know, it's a discussion we have often, isn't it? I'll tell you what, a discussion we have often on this pod as well Emma as you know this is how champions do it mentality monsters relentless all those phrases are always thrown about quite often about Chelsea but actually that was all on display on Thursday night and maybe and it's interesting what Tom says there but maybe this was the first time we've actually seen Chelsea fully hit Top Gear this season.

Is that fair to say? I think it's fair to say their squad fully hit Top Gear because I think we've seen better performances from the starting 11, but this was like, it was the whole package, wasn't it? It was the whole package on show. It was all of those things that you've mentioned in terms of personality traits,

but it was also that real show in depth. For me, it was just, and this was no disrespect to Manchester City, but it was no surprise. Like, just to go on the predictions thing, I actually said I thought it would be three nil at half time to Chelsea. Oh my God, we're turning our own deficit around on the pod. Unreal, isn't it?

It's a very big deficit to be fair. I'm not sure if we'll ever fully turn it around. Yeah, that's absolutely not happening. I just felt there was no way in these four games Chelsea wouldn't win the games that would matter because they always have done and they just, they know how to do it. Obviously that will stop eventually, but given all of the concepts that Tom's given around Manchester City and the injuries, yes, Chelsea have got their own as well,

but Chelsea's death is just so much better, and they did what they needed to do, and they were so calm. I was really struck by Sonia Bonpastor's reaction to that defeat in the first leg, and she came out in the press conference, and she was just so typically pragmatic. She was like, well, it's not decisive.

It doesn't mean anything. And I was kind of like, well, I mean, she's not wrong. And that was the very sort of calm message all week was, you know, we've got 90 minutes. It's absolutely loads of time. We've got a brilliant squad. We can come from behind. And as soon as they took on the pitch,

you could see that composure and you could see that the players genuinely believed, you know, we're the best team in this quadriology and we've got 90 minutes to score two goals and they did it in 45. So yeah, really impressive and as Tom says, absolutely deserves to go through and I'll tell you what, that semi-final lineup is absolutely blockbuster, isn't it? Yeah, oh my goodness mate, I mean absolutely blockbuster, isn't it? Yeah. Oh my goodness me. I mean, we're going to talk about it in a second because Chelsea have Barcelona. It's just like, you know, deja vu all over again.

But I want to talk about Vika Capetaine, Suzy, because, you know, Sonia Bonpastor raised a few eyebrows deciding to put her in the in the 10. But actually, she was key to the success ultimately wasn't she? Yeah, I mean I remember someone turning to me and like in the press room and saying oh V captain That's a strange choice And maybe it's because I just really like V captain but like I wasn't that surprised In that like I really really rate her every time she's on the pitch. I have been super impressed. So I wasn't like I mean it's surprising

in a sense in that she's not necessarily played a lot of football this season and not got many starts but like in terms of quality not surprising for me. And it was interesting when Sonia was asked about it after the match that she basically said, sort of, did you watch the game on Sunday? If you watched the game, you'll know exactly why she was on the pitch because how good she was in the game up in Manchester. And so her vision on the ball, her movement out of possession, you know, I think Sonja said, oh, it's her confidence as well. Like, all of those things contribute to what she can bring and, like, there's an energy there. And also, like, a little bit of the element of surprise as well,

I think, when you've got four teams back to back, being able to bring on someone that the team don't necessarily know as well, although, I say she did play in the game of the weekends, like just yeah, gives a little bit of a different dimension to what you're putting up. Without a doubt and it goes back to that strength in depth conversation that Tom just said and actually Tom I wonder, you know, when you see where Chelsea are in comparison to Manchester City it's something that we've discussed before. Four outfield players on the bench as All City could actually name. And yes, they have injuries, you know, but the club have said that their ambition to be considered amongst the elite in Europe, you know, that that's what they want to do.

So do actually they need to look at their recruitment strategy. Is it good enough that their recruitment strategy leaves with injuries for outfield players on the bench? Yeah, that's probably a fair criticism to point away the football club over a longer period that perhaps they've not what they fail to do probably is to build up their contingency for those longer term absences, maybe a little bit too much over reliance on a few really key players. We saw that even when they were fit. It was very rare to see certain key players rotated, whereas Chelsea can do that. Hey, listen, it all comes down, a lot of it comes down to finances at the end of the day let's not forget you know that these things will cost money but I do think that Man City will need to build in a

little bit more yeah a little bit more contingency into the squad the challenge for that is though that if you're trying to plan for that right now because because Man City are not guaranteed Champions League football next season and you can only really build in that squad depth and sign players who you might say to them, okay, well, you might not play every week, but you will, you know, you're going to play European games, you're going to be rotated around, you know, you can only really do that if you got the promise of Champions League football, because if you are just a team just playing WSL football, and you've only got the 22 league games to offer, then you might not need to

rotate, particularly if you had good luck with injuries and then suddenly you could then be having a really difficult situation managing a squad of unhappy players who were barely getting any minutes. So there is a fine balance to strike, whereas I suppose because Chelsea are these relentless champions who keep winning the title, they know they can offer that. It's hideously unlikely that they'll finish fourth. Yeah, I'm not trying to make an excuse for Man City squad planning, but that you're right to highlight that issue because that is the big, big gap. And I think it's not even brought back people like Sam Kerr yet. We have to think about the extraordinary depth of talent. And that has been the difference maker in the past probably three or four league titles when it's gone down to the wire and it's the

difference maker again at the moment yeah for Chelsea. Yeah and don't apologize for that you're being balanced I think that is that is more than more than fair. We spoke a deja vu I mentioned this already but Chelsea will face Barcelona in the semi-finals the third year in a row come on fixtures gods what are you doing this is ridiculous now you know there are some things that I'm thankful to the fixtures gods for not sure whether giving us four installments of Chelsea Manchester City was entirely necessary but it does mean I can add a new word to my repertoire, quadrilogy, which I've never heard before.

Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we're going to look at the Barclays WSL fixtures. We'll catch up on the latest from the championship and look ahead to the international break. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Right over to the Barclays WSL. Let's start with a game that could play a massive part in the relegation battle. Liverpool hosted Aston Villa and before kickoff you'll remember Villa found themselves in trouble sitting just a point above Crystal Palace at the bottom of the table. Palace were playing Arsenal so they knew that a result on Merseyside was vital to their chances of survival.

And this is how it ended. Liverpool won, Aston Villa two. Late winners, and Liverpool had taken the lead through a Marie Hobinger penalty, but Kirstie Hansen hit back. Her first league goal of the campaign before a very late own goal from Jenna Clark made sure that Villa went home with a very very valuable three points. We've

talked a lot on the pods Emma about Natalia Arroyo's struggles since she took over and actually the celebrations said it all didn't it? It was you know that wave of relief her first ever win in the Barclays WSL. It felt like this was a case of you have to get this done. It is now or never. Yeah, definitely now or never. And it ended a seven game winless run, which for the club of Aston Villa,

obviously they were only in the championship a few years ago, but they've shown huge progression in their time in the WSL. So to then see them within a point of relegation, I think just shows all of the errors that's been made at the club. There's a lot of people within that club that has to take accountability because the fact that they were in that position really is really disappointing. It shouldn't be happening. And I was, I was at Villa Park the week previously and, you know, I was

speaking to a lot of people. I was writing a piece on their kind of relegation struggles, and there really, really was a concern there. A lot of people, a lot of fans certainly were angry. There was a lot of anger, which I've not really sensed before from a lot of the Villa fans, certainly during their time in the WSL.

They've got a really, really good fan base, really good following, very loyal. And they were just frustrated. They were angry at the situation that they were in because they feel it could have been really avoidable. And I ended up pretty much having a one-to-one with Natalia because there was nobody else sort of there in the press conference room aside from broadcasts.

So she was very honest in our discussion. And she said that, you know, she didn't want to be the manager of a relegated team. And you could sense the fear in her voice as well. So this will do absolute wonders for them. It was such an important victory, especially to do it at Liverpool, who themselves have had a little bit

of a mini honeymoon period under Amber Wightley since she's coming as interim manager, however, now back to back the feet for them. So that's a little bit of a concern to look at but yeah it's just absolutely massive more in terms of how the table looks I think Villa certainly the players they're more than capable they've got so much quality they shouldn't be in that position but they they'll look at that now and I think just that weight of pressure off their shoulders will just come up a little bit they're still not safe but four games to

go with four points clear of Palace I think think that's them now. I think from the outside we can say, I think they'll probably be okay. Yeah, they've given themselves a much better chance, haven't they? That's for sure. And actually, Susie, Emma mentioned Amber Whiteley. It is a little bit back down to earth with a bump, five games in for her, there have been some big results but still these two defeats back to back may be causing the Liverpool fans to be a little bit, not all as fully rosy. I mean obviously one of those was to Arsenal who, as we've seen, obviously are in rampant form, wanted to avenge that FA Cup quarterfinal which Liverpool beat them in. Oh, you would expect Liverpool to lose that match, right? And yeah, I think as Emma said, there is a

honeymoon period and a new manager and yeah, that could be starting to wear off. But not always in Aston Villa's case they're bucking bucking that trend but I think there's like when you look at Liverpool there's a massive asterix in that like they are so poorly funded and solely poorly backed by the club that there there is like a massive excuse there for their performances and for the quality of the squad like even looking at them against the Aston Villa side right like you look at the quality of the squad, like even looking at them against the Astor Villa side, right, like you look at the quality of the players on the pitch and Astor Villa on paper like should be walking that game, right, like so I mean there's a problem there with Astor

Villa but then you look at where Liverpool are in the league in sixth with Brighton above them or West Ham below them and you look at the quality in those squads and Liverpool do not match the quality of Brighton and West Ham in terms of player-for-player across that pitch. So in reality they're punching above their weight again to a certain extent, position-wise, on where they should be given the investment that goes into that set-up and into that team and that's a big problem. That's not Abba Whiteley's fault, it's not Matt Beard's fault, it's the club's fault and they need to wake up and properly start investing in the team with some serious intent. It's insane that you can have a team that is going to win the Premier League most likely and is spending millions and millions and millions,

hundreds of millions on its men's team, getting away without criticism of how it's treating its women's team. And I say that they do get criticized for it, but I think not enough, right? Like, and it's not fair on the managers that being asked to come in and do the work and then are the ones that bear the brunt when the results don't go their way, performances don't go their way, give them the players, give them the players and the money to be able to build a setup that is actually going to thrive because they're not getting that. So like, yeah, the honeymoon could wear off. Yeah, there could be a few more like, good games in the honeymoon, but I just don't think it's, I don't think it's their fault.

I think when you're talking about investment here, Sue's, like from my opinion, I think this isn't on, you know, facilities and stuff. Local facilities are world class. It's not on the stuff around the pitch. They've kind of done that now, having had that criticism when they got relegated to the championship. It almost feels now that investment needs to be directly on the performance of the team.

So that has to be on- Into the squad, right? Into the squad. So it's increasing the player budget, it's increasing salaries, it's increasing transfer budget. I think from my understanding they were I think ninth in the budget of the W cell, so in theory they should be ninth in the

W cell table, but again as Suzie says they're punching above their weight. When they finished fourth last season I think they were around seventh or eighth in the player budget table, so that for me is where investment is. It has to be in the playing squad now. They've got such good stuff, they've got such good facilities, they've got really good resources and they've kind of built the stuff around it. It's okay, that's all well and good.

But if you wanna see the fruits of your labor now, that has to be in the actual playing squad itself. Yeah, and obviously that, you just said there, they are about ninth in the investment in the leagues at the moment and they were like six or seven last season, right? That's a gap that's getting bigger. They're not closing it. They should be climbing up, not getting down. So it's not even just about investing to stand still or investing to sort of keep pace.

They should be investing to close gaps, not have them get bigger, which is what is like alarming for me. There doesn't seem to be the ambition to do that there at the moment. Yeah, I think it's a really good point. Chelsea faced a new opponent for the first time in almost two weeks. They hosted a rejuvenated West Ham. It finished Chelsea 2 West Ham 2. Chelsea did go into an early lead, goals from Micah Hamano and Agui Beaver-Jones, but West Ham came back. Two goals from Shakira Martinez made sure that Rianne Skinner's side secured their first point from Chelsea since March 2019.

They'd lost the other 12 games in between. So that is some stat and they have been building, haven't they, under Rianne Skinner, Tom? It looks like we're finally starting to see the work that she's been doing behind the scenes. How impressed were you with her this weekend? Good performance in West Ham, wasn't it? Three games unbeaten for them, and in the past seven games they've had three wins, two draws and only two defeats. And it's a run where they've had some difficult games as well. And I think we should give some kudos to Shakira Martinez, that's five goals in her

past seven matches for club and country, including the Germany under-23s in that. And she's a player who I think it was seven years ago, she was a top scorer in the Euros, under 17 Euros, and sort of with that came a lot of the expectation about this bright young talent and sort of next big thing. And then things went quiet for a few years possibly but maybe we're now starting to see her talents really come to the fore and all the potential that was seen in those youth international tournaments when she was younger is now really starting to shine and be realised, that potential being realised, you know she's only 23 but I think she's had a good impact.

And, you know, it's the kind of result that the league needs to see more of. You know, we are gradually seeing it happen a little bit more. But, you know, over the last decade, teams from the bottom half going and getting results at Chelsea and Arsenal has been relatively rare and particularly against Chelsea and going to these games trying to be neutral but it's always quite nice to see it happen. There's nothing more dull than a weekend when the top four all win and we have so many of those. I don't want to upset fans of the top four clubs but every now and then it is just a little bit nice to say, oh, okay, yeah, well done.

No, I agree with you. It makes for a competitive league. You have to have that jeopardy to make it, you know, to make it entertaining. Let's talk about Chelsea very briefly, because we have focused on them a lot in this pod because they're Champions League exploits but they did come into this game off the back of March madness. They're still six points ahead despite dropping those two points. They need just six points as well to win the title. Sonia Bonpas d'Or made seven changes from midweek which you could expect as well which kind of meant, Emma, it was a bit of a tired performance,

which is fully understandable. But maybe, bearing in mind, we've been talking about their squad depth, we should have expected a bit more from them. What did you make of it? Yeah, I think the squad that was available should have won the game. And that's no discredit to West Ham because I do think they've been absolutely brilliant under Rhian since January. So, you know, that was fully deserved, but yeah, look, I liked Sonia Bonpastor's comments afterwards

where she said she didn't have any regrets and she had to focus on the players' health. And, you know, we talk about winning at all costs with this Chelsea team, but I suppose the massive asterisk to that and the most important one is not at the cost of players' health. And I quite like that honesty from her,

but still the players that were on the pitch should have won the game. And there's an argument that, you know, they could have been 3-0 up in that first half before West Ham really started clicking. I thought West Ham were brilliant in the second half, but you know, there is an argument that Chelsea had enough and should have done enough to see out the game

and they just didn't manage it very well. But I do think it's important that those players got a rest and I think there was also an understanding that yes, they will try and win every game and I don't think you can question that about Chelsea squad, but if there is any game to experiment or rotate in it is probably these WSL games in between the big Champions League games because they have a cushion. You know, dropping points isn't a disaster. It's not ideal, but it's not a disaster. So, you know, if she has to risk in order to save her players' health, then it's 100% worth the risk, in my opinion.

I think she said afterwards, didn't she, that Milly Bright was just exhausted and it was a danger to keep her on. So when you're in that situation and you know she's made seven changes I think it's fair but as I say that squad should have won the game. I think they'll take it though won't they? They're so close to the unbeaten league season now aren't they? Palace at home, Man United away, Spurs away and Liverpool at home. I mean if you can get through those you've got an unbeaten league season. Wow, the invincibles.

I think we can now should really be starting to talk about this possibility that they are going to go a whole season on being like, you know, I know it happened with Man City under Nick Cushing in 2016, but it was a much shorter league campaign. Massive respect to Chelsea for getting within four games of, you know, that Man United away game will be very difficult. We're expecting it to be midweek now with the Champions League Games force in the reschedule there. But just that is a prospect that deserves immense praise. You can't really say it to be carly enough of how well they've done.

Pre WSL Arsenal did it as well. Let's just throw that in, particularly in the quadruple year. But women's football began in 2011 didn't it? I think we should be mentioning this every single week until the end of the season. Manchester City of course the other team that have been involved in every competition in the past months to avoid the extra travel. They actually stayed down in London following their Champions League exit to prepare for the game in Crawley against Brighton. It finished Brighton one Manchester City two. Kirsten Kaspari opened the scoring her first goal of the campaign. Viviana Miedema came on to make sure of the three points. Brighton did get a consolation in stoppage time through Charlie Roll and

this was always going to be a bit of an intriguing fixture with Dario Vidasic and Nick Cushing both products of the City Football Group. City's low numbers not helped by Lyall Alexandri pulling up in the warm-up, saw a youthful centreback pairing of Gracie Pryor and Naomi Lezel while Carolyn, Viviana Miedema and Jill Rourde were rested. What did you make well not fully rested because Miedema came on as a substitute but what did you make of the game Suzy? Was City's experience and quality off the bench the difference? I think it's just the individual quality they've got in the players that are available right like obviously it's not ideal to have Gracie Pryor and Naomi Lazele at the back as your centre-back

pairing when you're a squad of city's quality and size. When you've got the likes of Viviana Miedema able to come off the bench and Kirsten Casper I think has actually had a really, really strong season. like you're, you know, there's, there's, there's elite quality there that can make a difference when your back is against the wall a little bit which it was, I mean the stats are pretty damning. Brian 53, well nearly 54 percent possession, 23 shots to 12, 44 touches in the opposition box to Man City's 27. Like, Brighton dominated that game but I would say it's that having that elite, elite level of player in their limited and injury hit 11 and, you know, well I

say 11, 23 or whatever it is, that gave them, gave them the edge. I mean that's basically it. Had to be gritty and then you have to have the quality that can pull something out of nothing when there's not much on the table for you. Brighton's unbeaten home run came to an end but how much, Emma, will Dario Vidozic take from that performance particularly after the disappointment of that defeat to Leicester last week? Yeah, I think he seemed pretty pleased with the performance. Obviously as Suzie said there with the stats it was clear that Brighton were, in terms

of performance-wise, were the better team. I think he'll still be really frustrated though that this has actually happened a lot this season and they just haven't been able to either, you know, finish things off or maybe compete in terms of points wise as they would have liked to. I mean there is quite a big gap between fifth and fourth so obviously, you know, the two teams that were playing Brighton, Man City. But you do think if they perform like this next season and just get a little bit more experience, a little bit more nous about them,

then I really, really think that they can, they can compete more in terms of points in that, you know, getting closer to the top four. So I think there'll be a mixture of, you know, considering it's a first season under him, I don't think anyone can can say it hasn't been you know a really really positive season for Brighton but yeah there must be a little tangle of disappointment or frustration that they haven't been able to turn some of these

performances into more points. Yeah definitely but you know building foundations for sure. Crystal Palace had a tough ask didn't they looking to upset the Applecar against Arsenal in front of a record crowd in Sutton. The Barclays WSL fixtures are fast running out for them and they need to see every game as an opportunity for valuable points but unfortunately for Leif Smiroud's side it was a routine afternoon for the Gunners. It finished Crystal Palace nil Arsenal 4 thanks to a brace from Beth Mead the 11th goal of the season for Alessia Russo in the league and an unfortunate own goal for Alison Swarby and things are looking really tough aren't they Tom for this palace side four points adrift now after we thought that they'd really started to turn a corner four games left

in the campaign and they have Chelsea, West Ham, Leicester and Manchester City. Villa in contrast have Tottenham, Arsenal, West Ham and Brighton. What do you make of their chances? I think that their own goal late winner for Aston Villa has put a huge shift into this. I mean what it's done essentially is said to Christo Palace, you have to you have to beat West Ham and Leicester at home to realistically have a chance here. Best rule in the world, are they likely to get anything away to Chelsea or away to Man City? That's asking a lot. You know, West Ham have shown it's possible to go and get a point away at Chelsea, but that's the sort of thing that Palace are going to need now.

But the pressure has all been heaped onto those two home games. I spoke to somebody behind the scenes at Aston Villa last week before they won at Liverpool. And with at that stage five games to go, they thought the Villa needed to win twice. They thought that would be enough. And I don't think Liverpool away was the banker. So they're probably in a really much, they're not safe yet. They've still got work to do. They're ahead of what they were thinking.

Yeah, and not ahead of what they were thinking at the start of the season, of course not. But I think that they knew they had to end the losing run and they hadn't won a game since. The last time they won a game in December, Kenza Dali and Adriana Leon were the goal scorers, they hadn't won a game since they left in January, so it was a big moment for them. For Palace, there is still hope, there is still hope, but I think De Boer, and I still think they'll get more points, I think they just needed somebody else to have a really bad end to the season and it probably doesn't look like that's going to happen now. There's still a chance they're going to have to win those two home games and hope that the other teams don't win and realistically now you fear for them. We joked about predictions earlier, didn't we? But I think I was the only one

on the pod that would start a team to say the Palace would go down. One of our friends said Everton to go down. We need to get them back on and wind them up about that because they're in the top part. I think I also might have said Everton. Well, oh, in that case, I've been cruel. But still a chance for Palace. They're not dead and buried, but they have to win those home games and maybe get a rabbit out of the habit in one of the away games too. Do you know what? Because our predictions are so bad, I then purposefully forget to

write them down every year so then I forget what I've actually predicted. We should go back and have a listen. Oh I keep receipts, don't worry. Oh I bet you do, I bet you do. Well let's see where we thought Arsenal were going to finish because they're back up to second, they're six straight win in the league. But I want to talk about, because we've spoken a lot about Arsenal, Susie, but I want to talk about Beth Mead. Two goals, a gorgeous left-footed volley and a trademark crot and it was a really emotional day for her as well, wasn't it? Oh yeah, obviously, you know, given that it was Sunday and Mother's Day, a difficult time for her. Incredible performance,

wonderful goals. The thing that excited me most was her relationship with Chloe Kelly because I think there's been a little bit of conversation about which one of them starts and they showed that they both can. Those two wide with Alessi Russo in the middle is incredibly exciting for England. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Less too far far from their best on Sunday but they did get a vital extra point in a draw with Spurs giving themselves a little bit more breathing space in the relegation battle. It finished Leicester one, Spurs won, Josefine Rybrink's own goal saw the Foxes take the lead before Drew Spence levelled things up to split the

points and Tottenham actually dominated this one, didn't they? Tottenham, sorry. Tottenham Hotspur. Tottenham Hotspur dominated this one. They created 23 opportunities, 11 on target. Probably should have done better with that really, Emma. But relieved with the point or frustrated that they didn't take more opportunities?

Frustrated, 100%. This is a Tottenham squad that the messaging all season has been that they want to be challenging to get into the Chammys league in the sort of near to long-term future and they're just absolutely miles off it at the moment. I think they've had a you know a pretty poor season actually overall but yeah as you say they're they you know they completely dominated. No goals from Arthur Thomas this season I believe in the league. Crazy that. It is crazy considering, you know, how much of an important role she had in there, run to the FA Cup final last year. Yeah, they've only scored, I think, 21 goals across the whole

league campaign. So it's, I think it's been a real struggle, hasn't it, to be ruthless in front of goal. And they need to address that, you know, it's all well and good playing some nice football, some areas of the pitch, but if you're not scoring goals and you're not winning games, I think something's gotta change. Yeah, they miss Grace Clinton, that is for sure, and she's ripping up trees with Manchester United, who continue their hunt to hold on

to a Champions League spot. Another win at home for them, it finished Manchester United 2-0, Everton 0, Dominique Janssen and Grace Clinton on the score sheet and Mark Skinner's side actually now have a seven-point gap over Manchester City in fourth and they're just quietly going about their business. Is it fair to say that Tom? Yes, still having I think a better season than people predicted. We always should caveat it with the fact that they, of the big four, they're not juggling European football. So as you often expect,

you know, they should, the team who isn't juggling it should do a bit better in the domestic games. But nonetheless, they do deserve a lot of credit. As we said before on the pod, you know, they're defensively very, very strong and that's really been a hallmark of their season. They look like they're going to end the campaign with the fewest girls conceded. They're very, very good without the ball. I think that's important to stress. They look very well coached without the ball this season and a really good unit. Can they get in the Champions League? I think now I'm starting to think yes. The last three fixtures obviously we know are really,

really difficult playing all of the top, the other sides in the top four. But they've reached, they put themselves in a position now where if they can win one of those games, they'll be in Europe. So, and I think probably earlier in the campaign, you might have expected they would need to win, you know, to go on a, to win two of those or go unbeaten in that stretch against the rivals and they can now afford to lose to Chelsea, for example, and it's still possible. So they've got themselves in a really healthy position. Should they be aspiring for better yet? Yes, I still think they should still be sitting down at the end of the season and thinking, what can we do to actually really, really challenge Chelsea for the title?

That should be the aspiration, but they are nearly there for Europe. And that is a big step forward. Um, given that they were fifth last season and things were looking, things weren't looking great, I think last summer in the league, you know, finishing below Liverpool. So credit to them still work to go, but they're almost there for Champions League and I think they would take a big box there with with mission accomplished for that.

And then I suppose the big question is, can they get through to the FA Cup final, which they will probably look upon now as their biggest game. Because I think they get in Europe and get to the FA Cup final, you know, for a third season in a row in the Cup final, I think that getting to Europe and getting to the FA Cup final for a third season in a row in the cup final, I think they would start to reflect on that as quite a healthy thing. Yeah, I agree. Right, let's focus on the championship. There's a new leader at the top of the table.

London City Lionesses have taken full advantage of their game in hand over Birmingham City. It was a 2-1 win over Newcastle United sending them two points clear with three games to play and the top two are going to play each other on the final day of the season. I love this. I love this league this season. Elsewhere Charlton held off a comeback from Sunderland to stay third in a seven-goal thriller. Durham put six past Portsmouth to consolidate their spot in fourth. Down at the bottom of the table, Blackburn earned a huge 1-0 win over Southampton to move five points clear of the drop, while Sheffield United's 3-0 defeat at the hands of Bristol City sees them stay bottom of the pile.

International football returns this week in the form of the Nations League. England will play a double header with Belgium. Serena Vigman named her squad last week that saw Maisie Simons receive her first senior call-up. Beth Mead and Frank Kirby also make their returns from injury. What are you expecting to see from the Lionesses in this camp, Susie? I mean, I think there's a real opportunity to take the advantage in the group. Obviously, they're second at the moment, level on points for Portugal above them. Spain play Portugal. So there's, you know, two wins and they will likely move top and have a real, real chance

to sort of kind of assert their authority on the group going into the final couple of games. But that, you know, is not necessarily a straightforward ask. Belgium are a decent team. We saw them do so well against Spain. What excites me is having Frank Kirby back. I think she's really important because when you look at the squad available for England now, I think in pretty much everywhere of the pitch, the squad is quite strong even

with the injuries to the likes of Alex Greenwood and Lauren Hemp and stuff. But midfield is where it's weak. I think the loss of Georgia Stanway is massive. So, you know, the experience is coming from Ella Toon and Keira Walsh and then it's quite young, Grace Clinton, Jess Park, Maisie Simons. So having Frank Herbie back in that mix I think is really important because, yeah, she adds a layer of experience and creative genius that isn't there otherwise. I'm quite worried about that midfield looking ahead to the Euros, but rest of the pitch, I think the squad looks really strong. Yeah, elsewhere in League A, Scotland will face a big test. They face Germany twice. Wales, meanwhile, hosts Denmark in Cardiff before travelling to

Gothenburg to face Sweden and in League B Northern Ireland play Romania twice and the Republic of Ireland looked to get back on track with a double header against Greece. Finally a little bit of housekeeping Tom because you reported on Wednesday that the FA's decided not to go ahead with their proposals to expand tiers three to six in 2026, including introducing WSLB teams into the mix. What can you tell us about this decision? Yeah, this is quite a big moment actually

for the women's pyramid in England. I appreciate all the eyes of the women's world were on the game between us and around Madrid. So understandably, this probably went under the radar, but yes, in January, the FAA proposed major changes to the lower leagues to expand the divisions and change of promotion rules and crucially introduce WSLB teams into the Women's National League system from tier four. And since then, they've been talking to clubs, they've talked to parents of Academy players, they've talked to other stakeholders, they've talked to the Football Sports Association and in the end the clubs were given a chance to do a survey and from an email that was sent to all the lower league clubs last week that the Guardian has seen, the FA say that they had 144 clubs

respond and 55% said they were in support of the proposals. But what the FA have said is that because there was so much feedback and I think from my understanding quite a lot of feedback was, you know, did raise concerns about this B-Team idea amongst other things, they've decided that it's time to just take a step back and look at other options and keep exploring other options. So, you know, I can read you some of that email, you know, the FA saying to clubs that given what we have heard, it is recognised that more work is required to find the right solution to the challenges and the current proposals will not be moving forward at this time. So that means this would have meant changes coming in from 2026. It means that the leagues will stay as they are in terms of the league sizes.

They'll still be one up, one down, which some clubs won't be happy with that because a lot of clubs were hoping that there'd be a secondary promotion places or playoffs and other things. So there will still be a few clubs worried that there's a bottleneck in the lower leagues for the supporters and other clubs who would raise worries about B teams entering the pyramid and that's not going to happen from 2026 so a big decision there taken by the FA. Huge. Right, it's been a joy as it always is. Emma Sanders, thank you very much, nice to see you soon. Nice to see you guys, see you on England International break. Indeed. Tom Gary, lovely to see you. Lovely to see you too. By the way I've been watching your just above your head it's looked like you've had barbed wire above your head I know

that it's lights and that when they're turned on in the evening it looks really lovely safe and twinkly but at the moment it looks like you're in prison. No it's worse than that Faye it's their Christmas lights that I've not been bothered to take down. Oh, it's April the 1st. Oh, it's April Fool's Day. How did we not do an April Fool's Day intro and joke? They're ready for next year. So think of the time I'll save next December. Amazing. That'd be great for Eurovision. Yeah.

Yes. Maybe that's the April Fool, but actually it's Christmas Day today. Oh! Do we get presents? Oh yeah, I'll get you a present, Susie. I'll see you all soon, team. Keep having your say, send in your questions via social media, email us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com as well and as ever a reminder for you to sign up to our weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search moving the goalposts sign up the Guardian women's football weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and

Hattie Moyer music composition was by Laura Iredale our executive producer is Salamat