The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Arsenal and Chelsea face uphill battles in Champions League – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Sophie Downey, Tom Garry and Emma Sanders to discuss the Champions League semi-finals, the Women’s Championship and the latest WSL action

This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faker Rothers and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So it's the halfway stage of the Champions League semi-finals with both Arsenal and Chelsea trailing in their ties with Lyon and Barcelona. We'll review the first legs and preview this weekend's must-win second legs as well as looking back on the Barclays WSL action. And after teasing you for weeks, we're taking a deep dive into the Women's Championship as we approach the final two games of what's been a thrilling season. All that plus we'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly! Well listen, what a panel we have today but first of all I just want to send some love

to our wonderful friend and colleague Suzy Rack who has finally had her gallbladder surgery we were talking about just the other week and is recovering at home, listening of course because she's diligent but taking some much-needed rest, which is very unlike Susie. I think she's finding it very difficult but I hope she is actually resting up, sending you lots of love Susie Rack. Sophie Downey, how are you? No hat this morning, I mean it must be summer. No, it feels a bit weird at the moment. I think I woke up and just forgot, which is unlike me. But yes, I'm good thank you. Been busy week, so I'm excited to get talking. Yeah. Tom, Gary, you must have been pretty busy as well. How are you? I'm well, thank you. Yeah, it doesn't... It feels like only yesterday that I saw Emma and Sophie, but oh wait, it is!

It's that time of the season and Emma has turned into a granny. She's wrapped up This is what happens when you live up north in England. It's cold. You have to constantly wear blankets I'm coming back from Barcelona and then being in a cold house. I've got a jumper I've got a blanket wrapped around my leg. I'm on my third cup of tea since 7 o'clock and it's only 9 a.m. So there you go Wow, that's impressive. I mean at least it's not your third coffee I would start to worry for you if you were drinking that much coffee and the sofa sips a massive coffee

and makes me want to go out and get a proper one rather than my one from my kettle. Anyway, listen, we're not going to start in Barcelona. We're going to start in London with the weekend's Champions League action. The first legs just didn't go according to plan, did they, for either of the English teams involved After Arsenal's 5-1 midweek win in the WSL against Leicester they had momentum going into the weekend

But they were hosting former boss Joe Montemurro's Leon in front of a 40,000 strong crowd at the Emirates and the first leg ended in a narrow defeat finishing Arsenal 1. Leon 2. Kadaddiatu Diani fired the visitors into a first half lead. Mariona Caldente levelled from the spot late in the second half before Melki de Mourne raced through to restore Leon's lead. We had this lovely email on Women's Football Weekly at theguardian.com. Hello, this is from Louise by the way. Hi, my daughter Lucy loves your podcast and wanted to say hi. Hi Lucy. We were at Arsenal Leicester City this week and had a great time. Despite the score we saw some poor passing and weak defending

so the Lyon score was sad but not a surprise. Fingers crossed for the second leg and thank you for the entertainment and insight every week. Thank you for your email, Louise. Much appreciated. I mean, look, Arsenal did start the Lyon game slowly, didn't they? And it felt like one of those quintessential tales of two halves. What did you make of the game? Yeah, I think they did. I think, I don't know whether it was nerves or just like not being quite used to the pace of Lyon's front line. They really did start slowly and I think in the first three minutes, Caitlin Ford got a booking. There were some loose passes, the crosses weren't quite hitting their marks. And they were, yeah, they were just, you know, struggling to get control of the game. But I do think the way that they kind of showed their resilience, which I think has been

a massive part of their season, the kind of resilience to come back. They came back after half time. We know about Rene Slega's halftime talks. We saw it for the Real Madrid game in the last leg as well, where they came out and they really did hit them in the second half. And actually, when you look at the stats, Arsenal dominated a lot of the stats. I know that doesn't translate into victory, but I think they can take a lot of positivity from the fact that they created more chances. They had the same number of shots on target. They had more forward passes and more touches in the box. So I think when you're looking at reviewing the game and where it went wrong, it was an opportunity of not maybe being

more clinical in the box. But at the same time time they did create enough, I think, to warrant maybe a draw and to give them hope going into that second leg. It's not, it's going to be a tough task, don't get me wrong, but like it's definitely not all over, they're still in this match and I think they show that they aren't too far apart at points. I think there are some different, like it's more about personnel and quality at times that they might need to look to rebuild like bring in over the summer but other than that they they did stay in the game in that first leg. Yeah and we have seen it seen them do it before as well haven't we and you know which is why René Sleggers was was quite calm post-match but she said that Arsenal

had to learn in-game in the first half, having not faced an attacking trio of the quality of Diani de Mourne and Tchewinga yet this season, which is what Sophie was saying, Tom, and those three are frightening. Yeah, they really are. And I think de Mourne in particular, I think, has now risen up to a state of... So she's really in that top elite bracket of footballers around the world now, obviously still very young, but this was a very impressive performance in her. And kind of a lesson in the clinicality being the most important thing at this stage. You know, Lyon took their chances really well there.

Arsenal had a lot more of the ball. Arsenal had, I think, three times more corners than Lyon. Arsenal, you know, did generally play relatively well, but you've got to be completely ruthless in these moments. And the quality, I think the quality of that front three was probably this slight difference overall. I don't think this is done at all, though. I do think that Arsenal have a really good chance of going and making a game a bit in the second leg and I suppose with the context that you wouldn't really expect a particularly raucous home crowd in Lyon in the way that we saw the sort of 40 000 at the end I wouldn't expect it to be a similar

home advantage for Lyon so in that sense I think there's no reason to fear going away there and I think we could see a really good second leg but the de Mornay goal sort of Makes it a lot more difficult doesn't it in the Arsenal and I have to go and win and that probably changes the tactical approach When compared to if the tie was level a lot obviously and they have to be more clinical as well Emma they were criticized for that earlier on in the season, but they they again they were criticized for that earlier on in the season, but they again missed a spate of chances, whereas Lyon just made their big moments count. How much are they going to rue those wasted opportunities and try and fix that next weekend? Yeah, well I'll be honest first off, I was actually travelling back from the airport,

so I missed the first half an hour and caught, I suppose, the best part of Arsenal's performance, where I did see all of these chances. And, you know, I saw Renee speaking afterwards, and she was saying about the fact that, you know, they have been clinical this season. And that was really disappointing, that kind of been one of the biggest games of the season. They obviously don't show that that side of them, but it didn't seem to be clicking. You know, they created a lot. But I think in these games, you need a bit of luck. And you also need obviously that quality in the right moment. So I don't think they had either on the night, which obviously, you know, Leon did. I also thought Lindsay Heaps in Leon's midfield was really, really creative. I thought she controlled the midfield and I thought maybe Arsenal lacked that a little bit in those moments that counted. They've obviously got the players that can do that, the likes of Mariano

Caldente, but I didn't see enough of that, I don't think, on the night. And I think that would be really disappointing to Renee because they do have that in them, you know, they've got that quality, they've got that ability. I think it's doing it consistently over, you know, the full 90 minutes against a team of the quality of Lyon, which they didn't show. So yeah, she'll be keen for them to come out fighting and to show that side of them, obviously, in the second leg. Yeah, it was quite interesting, wasn't it? Because they were under the cosh, Leon, in the second half with Arsenal pressure. But

Joe Montemuro talked about his team's ability to control their emotions when the going gets tough. And that is the experience so for the of a team that's won this competition eight times and going for a record ninth isn't it? Yeah Joe was really interesting in post-match because he talked about how that has kind of taught him a lot as well in terms of the leadership side of the game. He said that you know in some of these games before you know it the tactics have actually gone out the window and it's all done on pure emotion and he kind of expects that from the second leg as well. And it's about your team's ability to ride that kind of wave of emotion, get through the tough parts, and hold on and find

their moments to win a game. And I think when you have a team like Lyon, yes, you know, the personnel might change from year to year, although they do generally keep quite a stable kind of team. It's kind of institutionalized, isn't it? That kind of experience and that kind of winning feeling where they understand the kind of maturity levels that are needed to get through games and that just comes with being in the competition at this stage year after year after year and you know Arsenal, yes they're the only English team to have won it but that was a long time ago now and they've been kind of in and that flitting in and out of competition at different points you know, yes they've reached the of in and that flitting in and out of the competition at different points.

You know, yes, they've reached a semi-final two years ago, but then they had a year off away from the competition because they didn't qualify for the group stage. So it's about that kind of consistency, I think. And you can only do that by reaching this kind of stage of the competition year after year and after year and playing the Leons and the Barcelona's of the world where you're not going to find many

tests like those two teams in elsewhere in world football and as strong as the WSL is and as strong as the other league. So I think, you know, there are elite teams, just, you know, one or two elite teams elsewhere, which really test you beyond all other teams. So that kind of, you need that practice, you need that experience to face on year and improve. Yeah, that's a really good point. Women's football was vastly different in 2007, wasn't it? 18 years ago, by the way, that is, which is terrifying, absolutely terrifying, if you're my age. Renée Sleggers reiterated her confidence that her team could turn this around next week, drawing on that success that they had away at Lyon back in 2022. This is what she had to say Arsenal have done it before it's

going to be a pitch 11 v 11 good grass and we have all the opportunities to win that game. Soph and Tom don't think the tie's over Emma what about you? Yeah I think Arsenal are still in it I think you know there wasn't that much between the two sides. It was just as, you know, we've all just spoken about those moments of quality and that probably that decision making and that little bit of luck on the night. So, yeah, I think they're still in it. I think they have to believe that they're still in it. And I think that's been the difference is, you know,

Lyon will always think they're the best team. You know, that's they go into any game thinking we're the best team. And, you know, it's it's kind of for the opposition to win and to take that away from us. That's their mentality. And I think Arsenal need to flip that and they need to believe that they're the best team going into the second leg. And yeah, they definitely got the players, they've definitely got the quality, they just need to show it consistently. Yeah just to make you dream of the Sun. There was plenty of hope in the Chelsea ranks that this might be their year in Europe but of course they drew Barcelona their old rivals. They'd love to get their hands on that one trophy that's eluded them to date and they knew it was going to be tough and it actually turned into a night to forget in the end for Sonia Bonpastor and her side as they fell to a 4-1 defeat at the Estudie Johan Cruyff. Barcelona took the lead through Eva Pio before Claudia Pina added a second with 20 minutes to go.

Chelsea did give themselves a lifeline, Sandy Baltimore halved the deficit but it was a really frantic final 10 minutes which saw Barcelona complete a comfortable victory in the end with Irene Paredes heading home before Pina rounded off the scoring with her second goal of the game and Sonia Bonpas-Dorz said her side had just made too many mistakes. Lucy Bronze said the whole game was played to Barca's preference on the ball and off the ball. Where did it all go so wrong Sophie? I think it was a, this is going to sound harsh but I think it was quite a naive performance from Chelsea. I think Sonia Bonpastel, they looked kind of in two

minds about what they were really wanting to do. They kind of wanted to set up and possess the football which is to me a little bit mad when you're playing Barcelona who are the ultimate possessors of the football. But then they weren't quite sure how to kind of stand up against that kind of possession and dominance from Barcelona. So they were kind of caught in two minds and that meant the spaces were really available for Barcelona to kind of exploit. I think, I think it's, you know, it's kind of admirable to say we want to stick to our style and kind of, in a way, take the game to Barcelona, but I think you leave yourself at huge risk when you're doing that.

Sometimes you just need to sacrifice a style to work out how to win a football game. I was a bit surprised because I think Sonia has done it this season where she's proven a bit versatile in terms of what she wants to do. Think about that home game at Stanford Bridge against Manchester City, where they were quite happy to sit with the ball and hit a city on the counter-attack and allow them to have the possession, but then be clinical with it.

And they didn't really do that. And they really struggled to get Ramirez into the game. It meant that she started getting really frustrated. She was being drawn out of position so that when the ball did end up in that place you know, pace up front, she was really struggling. Well, she wasn't there to get onto it. And there were just no bodies kind of in the box for Chelsea to exploit when they had those kind of moments. So yeah, I'd say a bit naive, naive tactically and naive performance. They just looked, they were, I mean, it wasn't

a good day at the office. They weren't on the pace, they weren't the Chelsea that we know they can be as well. I do think that plays a part of it and I don't think they have those days very often, but I think they just need to show a little bit more maturity when they're coming up against a team like Barcelona who have all of the strength and power that they have. Was it a bad day at the office, Tom? Or have they actually gone backwards? Because, you know, when you compare it to this fixture last year, Chelsea came back to Stamford Bridge with a famous victory, but these two performances couldn't be much further apart.

And I'm wondering whether their unbeaten domestic run maybe masked some of the growing pains going on underneath with such a massive change in personnel? That's a good point because it is easy to forget that Chelsea are still in something of a transition at the moment in Bonn Pastel's first season in charge and it was always going to take time for her style to be implemented. That is important and the success domestically has probably masked that transition but nonetheless what I think what this came down to was just too many Chelsea players just not being on their game. Like I was so surprised by the lack of quality they had on the

ball. We kind of, you completely expected Barcelona to be superior technically on the ball, that was totally expected and they were fantastic but what we didn't expect was Chelsea to be so poor in possession. And I think there are just too many people are not playing well at the same time. They only managed to have 12 touches in the Barcelona box, Chelsea, which I couldn't really believe and they weren't really on it at all. I think you need to expect more from people in the big game. So yes, I think what you're saying is true and that was also my thoughts as well. But at the same time, you still need people to be turning up and performing and playing their best.

And for whatever reason, that didn't happen. So I mean, I disagree with Lucy Bronze's thoughts about the game being played to Barcelona's to suit Barcelona. I just thought the Barcelona completely outplayed Chelsea. And if we're being honest, it could have been more than it could have been more than for one really, couldn't it? So I'm with so far, I was a little bit surprised about the tactics. Chelsea actually played fewer long balls than Barcelona,

which sort of really surprised me because Barcelona played barely played any at all themselves. And I suppose I was sort of expecting a little bit more directness from Chelsea. They really couldn't get the ball to stick up top at all, the link up with the Mirage just wasn't there for whatever reason so yeah a big reflection for them. I think it'll be quite a chastening day for them but I think they will learn they will learn from it and come back you know we know how much they the 4-0 loss in the final in Gotham have really fueled them to get better and this will fuel them to get better as well. They will certainly not go away and hide and they've got to turn around quickly now because they're coming to the bridge in just a few days time.

Yeah that's a big deficit to overturn though isn't it? We'll have a look at that second leg in a minute but I want to talk about the Chelsea signings Emma because over the last 18 months Germer, Ramirez, Walsh and bronze were brought into the club specifically to build for European success Which you know from a fan's point of view and the clubs as well must be incredibly frustrating that actually again against this team in Barcelona they still look so far away from getting what it is that they want. Yeah it will be frustrating I think you know we've sort of discussed that kind of link-up play up top and I think you know Mayra Ramirez since coming back from her injury I don't think she's

she's looked fully fit, fully sharp, I think she's struggling a bit at the moment, I think, you know, Myra Ramirez, since coming back from her injury, I don't think she's, she's looked fully, fully fit, fully sharp. I think she's, she's struggling a bit at the moment. I think, I think that's fine to say. I think it's okay to say that, you know, she's a wonderful footballer. We know what she can do. I don't think she's anywhere near the level that we saw before. So I think that obviously, you know, hurts the Chelsea side when you're going to Barcelona and you're, you know, your centre forward isn't isn't at the at the kind of elite level that we know she can be. So I think that's a shame. Obviously, they missed her in the second leg last season. And I think they you know, that would have made such a significant difference. So you could argue that kind of

the Maira Ramirez the best version of her hasn't been available to them in the in at least kind of you know one of the legs and certainly not her best in this leg. Obviously Naeema Girm has been out injured and you know she's had a really difficult time she came on for obviously her debut at Brighton and struggled there went off injured and then is then sort of thrown in with 10 minutes to go in Barcelona because of an injury to Nathalie Bjorn at centre back and then is then sort of thrown in with 10 minutes to go in Barcelona because of an injury to Natalie Bjorn at centre back and then literally seconds later Chelsea concede that third goal from a set piece. I don't think that was Naomi Germa's individual fault but it's just, it's just you know

it's so kind of harshly typical that that happens when she comes back on so naturally people will that happens when she comes back on. So naturally people will look at that incident. I think Lucy Bronson's had a really strong season but it's difficult isn't it? I think you know Kiera Walsh wasn't particularly helped out by her midfield partners I think in the game. I thought you know Bika Kaptan is such a talented young player. I thought she really struggled in Spain unfortunately and Erin Cuthbert was great off the ball, on the ball. We know she can be so much better. And as Tom said, I completely agree. I think in possession, Chelsea as a team were just so poor across the board. So I think it's difficult to look at, you know, the four individuals and sort of point fingers, but completely understand your point. And I agree when you're signing those world class players and you're,

you know, you're breaking world records, British records to bring them in. And you don't make that progress in the competition. It's really difficult, isn't it as a fan. So Sonia Bonpastor has got to look at that. And you know, as Sophie said, were they too naive? Yes, I think so. How can they get the best out of these world-class players? How can they get them all working together as a team against the best team in Europe? And that is the ultimate question, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. But, you know, maybe they were off their game because Barcelona were so good. You know, it's all well and good as talking from this kind of anglicised perspective, Soph, but ultimately it was a really comfortable win for Barcelona. What did they do right? Because they looked quite unstoppable. Yeah, I think it's really interesting, going off the last point a bit. And not to say that Chelsea haven't strengthened, they definitely have strengthened with the people they brought in. But when you look at Barcelona and you look at the fact that this season they were without Keira Walsh and Lucy Bronze, Frida Linna-Rolfo was on the bench, they kind of looked like they weren't even missing them. They were that fluid and that kind of connected in terms of the way

they play football. That midfield trio of Patry, Atana Bomati and Alexey Puteys, who I thought had a brilliant game by the way, it was kind of trademark Alexia, you know, they're frightening and then you don't even look at the front three. I think also in contrast, you know, Barcelona of the summer brought in Jura Pajor as a number nine, and they've kind of in, I mean, it's ridiculous to say they've been lacking in that area in recent years, given that they're, you know, going after four back to back Champions League trophies, but they haven't had a number nine, you know, an out and out number nine. And in Payor they have an absolute true number nine. And she is ridiculous. I mean, her stats are, I mean, ridonkulous. Ridonkulous. I've not heard that word for a while. It's not even in the dictionary,

I don't think. No. It's an emphasis on the ridiculous because she scored 34 times in 35 games. I mean, those numbers are just crazy. And she just really adds that kind of number nine play to what Barcelona needed. You know, they've been trying in recent years to play Salma up front. She's more natural on the wing. So they now have this number nine who has incredible work rate, like the instinctiveness in front of goal to just score numbers like that.

And she kind of adds a versatility to their kind of play too. Tom mentioned about long balls for Chelsea. The first goal was started by a long ball forward from Barcelona, headed down by a Chelsea player, but Barcelona won the second duel and played a playoff through. And I think that just shows the kind of strength and depth that they have added to their squad and that really made a difference this season compared to other seasons. And yeah, they were just so good on the ball, so confident. That second goal, that team goal, it swept from back to front, from left to right before Pina put it in the back of the net. And think that was just like stereotypical Barcelona at their best.

By the way, former Arsenal midfielder now playing for Lyon, Danielle van der Donk had a chance, didn't she, against Arsenal. If she'd have scored that then we could have used the word van donk- ridonkulous, not van donkulous, ridonkulous not van donkulous ridonkulous oh god I'm gonna stop that right now Tom can they do it give Chelsea fans hope please Sonia Bon Pastor and Lucy Bronze both think they can but Stanford Bridge is gonna have to be loud and those players are gonna have to have the game of their careers aren't they? Yes they can but they need the game of their lives like they need to play all 11 will need to play the best performance of the season all game of their careers, aren't they? Yes, they can, but they need the game of their lives.

All 11 will need to play the best performance of the season all together, simultaneously. Yes, they can. I think it's likely no. I would love to see a comeback, like a really good second leg home team roaring comeback. They're pretty rare in Women's Champions League history and this would be the greatest of the lot if they could pull it off. My concern for Chelsea is that I can't see Barcelona not scoring again, so then all of a sudden you're needing at least four. So yeah, but in a literal answer to question. Yes, they can. Of course they can. And but it needs all 11 of them to be absolutely outstanding. And they've got to find a way to do that. And not easy when you're playing a midweek game as well. You know, they're going to be tired. They're going to play in a WSL in between the two.

And yeah, I think it's a huge, huge difficult ask. So I know I'm really looking forward to seeing, you know, Chelsea need an early goal. They need the DJ to get excited as he sometimes does at the bridge before the big night and let's see. But I think the most likely scenario is that, you know, we'll see the quality of Barcelona lead to some goals for them. And Most importantly, I'd like to see Chelsea demonstrate that they can beat them. I'd like

to see Chelsea win the game to demonstrate they can win over 90 minutes. I know they've won away last season, but I'd like to see them show their quality on the ball and sort of demonstrate that over these coming years, over through the bomb past or tenure, that they can win this title. I think this is a chance to sort of right the wrongs of last week, even if they can't necessarily mathematically overturn the deficit. But gosh, there's a lot of fence sitting there, isn't there? Sorry. I stick with my original response.

They can do it. They just all will need to be right on the very, very, very top of their game and hope that Barcelona probably also have a bit of an off day. So you didn't have any splinters, then you made some splinters, then you picked them back out again. Something like that. It was impressive, it was impressive.

Yeah, Chelsea have Crystal Palace on Wednesday in the WSL and actually while the Champions League was taking place, the rest of the Barclays WSL continued. Big blow for Manchester United though in their race for second place. They were held to a goalless draw away at West Ham who continued their good form. It's a result that means they now sit two points behind Arsenal who won midweek against Leicester as I mentioned earlier on. Manchester City though they also fell behind in their battle for a Champions League spot. They were held to a one-all draw at home against Everton that result means Arsenal now just need one point from their final three games to secure

European football next season elsewhere Liverpool leapfrogged Brighton into fifth with a 2-1 victory over the Seagulls at first half goals from Olivia Smith and Leanne Kiernan. Michelle Ajiman did score the consolation for Dario Vidozic's side but it was too little too late and big three points for Aston Villa. They held off a Tottenham comeback to make sure that they gave themselves a little bit of a cushion over Crystal Palace at the bottom of the table. Kirstie Hansen scoring a 91st minute winner after Spurs recovered from a 2-0 deficit. Right, that's it for part one.

In part two, we're going to take a look at the Barclays Championship as it nears its conclusion. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So we have promised you a more focused look at the championship for quite a little while now and with the league heading towards a thrilling conclusion we thought that now would be the perfect time to do that. So we're going to start at the top of the table, everything to play for, for the title and the promotion battle. It's heading down to the wire as we've expected it to all season. Actually, you know, for a little while, it looked like there were going to be five teams in it, but it now is very much a two horse race going into the final two games.

So if London City Lioness is a leading currently, it's their first full season under owner Michelle Kang and manager Jocelyn Pressure and I mean there has been plenty of change what have you made of their campaign so far? I think it's been a learning campaign for them and that sounds ridiculous because they're leading the table at the moment but I spent some time at their training ground just before the start of the season and it was very much you know Jocelyn was talking about the kind of building their foundations, he wasn't expecting miracles overnight. And yes, they have,

you know, big money now in the form of Michelle Can coming in and big signings coming through the door. But he was very much of the mind that it was going to be a season where they built the kind of foundations and that, you know, kind of learned a lot about themselves. And I think that was the case for the first half of the season. They were a bit up and down here and there. The results weren't always going the way. They had a bad day in Durham, for example. They lost to Birmingham.

But I think in this last few months, they've really come together and started to click. And all of those signings have started to build those relationships that are so needed when you're kind of pushing for the title. And I was actually at the game, they beat Southampton on Friday night at St Mary's, and it was such a mature performance from them. They just, you know, they were kind of diligent in what they were doing. They had their clear tactics of how they were going to hit the game, and they were very, very patient.

And you don't often see that with kind of young teams in kind of where they are at in their position. So I think there's a lot more to come from them, that's for sure. But from what I saw on Friday night, they really have developed that kind of maturity that I didn't quite expect at this stage, despite the listening of kind of names in that squad and the experience there.

So I think it's coming together. They've got some really good personnel. They have big, big ambitions at that club and whether it happens or whether it doesn't this year, I don't think that matters too much because they're going, they will be in the, they're on a trajectory, I think, and it won't be too long before they are in the WSL. Yeah, they've made several big name signings signings Emma but probably the one who's catching the eye the most is Isabel Goodwin, a young English star and it paid good money for her as well. She's 22 years old, brought her in from Sheffield United over the summer. Do you feel maybe she's gone a little bit under the radar when we think of future England stars?

I think it's an interesting question because I don't think she's gone under the radar in terms of, you know, looking at the championship. I think everyone's, you know, talking about her and her performances. You know, you look at her stats, 14 goals, three assists and 16 games. You know, an incredible return for such a young player. I think she's still got, you know, some some room to grow as well the potential that we can see that she's a very exciting player. But I was looking through some of the England youth squads this morning, just to sort of answer your question about her going under the radar in terms of maybe as an English player. And I'm not sure that's the case, because I think there's so much

talent in those England youth teams, particularly in those front positions. You look at the last of the 23 squad, for example, Katie Robinson was in there. She obviously was part of the squad that went to the Women's World Cup. She's got lots of experience. She's still only 22. I think you forget how young she is. And then you look at the under-19 squad and you've got the likes of Lola Brown at Chelsea, Lily Murphy is obviously playing regularly at Manchester City. And then Michelle Ag at the under 19 squad and you've got the lights of, you know, Lola Brown at Chelsea, Lili Murphy is obviously playing regularly at Manchester City. And then Michelle Agyemang obviously has leapfrogged and jumped straight into the first team and obviously scored the greatest goal I've ever seen in my life. I think, I think in that sense, she's, she's not gone under the radar because there's others who, to put it harshly, are outshining her in obviously,

you know, the top league and on the biggest stages and I think that's the next step for the good winners is showing the clear quality and the clear ability she has in the championship, but showing that, you know, in the WSL on a consistent basis but she's certainly an exciting talent and the future looks bright for England particularly in those forward positions doesn't it? Yeah definitely does. Let's speak to Mr Brum shall we. Tom Gary, Birmingham City fan celebrating the men's teams promotion from League One into the Championship. The club have obviously come into some money of late with investment and actually we've talked a lot on the pod in previous years about the lack of investment in Birmingham

City women and the problems that have gone on behind the scenes but now this team are challenging at the top they've led the league for a while and they've got Amy Merricks in charge and you spent some time with her Tom so much change at the club over the past few years after that relegation from the WSL. What did you learn when you were with her about how ready the club are now on and off the pitch if they did secure promotion and what position are they in if they don't? Yeah, it was an absolutely fascinating visit to Birmingham's training ground. In answer to your question, I think they are very much WSL ready,

and that was a phrase that Meryx was using off the pitch, I think. I wish I had sort of sufficient words in my vocabulary to articulate the transformation of the women's facilities there. It's only a few years years ago under the former ownership that things are so inadequate for the women's team that they actually submitted a formal complaint to the board about the lack of access to the gym, the medical facilities, the lack of pretty much everything really. They were in sort of temporary huts. It was some of the worst top flight conditions I'd ever heard of and even only as recently as last year, that actually there'd been a fire at the training ground

where the men and women used to both be based in West Hills, just south of Birmingham. And while that was being rebuilt, the women's team were housed in what Amy Merrick described as three huts. And they were, I remember going for an interview last year and thinking, oh, this is all rather temporary. But what I saw on my most recent visit really blew me away.

I mean, yeah, picture the most sort of state of the art gym. You could imagine the sort of thing you would expect at the Champions League level, those kind of anti-gravity treadmills, all the fancy kit for recovery. The canteen is very impressive. They actually have a travelling chef that goes with them to away games now. So we're going to talk about some of the other women's championship teams in a moment. The canteen is very impressive. They actually have a travelling chef that goes with them to away games now. So we're going to talk about some of the other women's championship teams in a moment, but the provisions and funding is really in a different league to a lot of their other championship rivals. They're taking this very, very seriously. And I think the plan this year, from what I understand, was to challenge with motion. I don't think they're demanding that they have to go up this year, but they wanted to really challenge and they would love to go up. But I think that what they're trying to do is put in everything in place so that this team can compete and sustain itself very high up in the WSL for a

very, very long time. And from everything I've heard and from the investment that's been put in, I have no doubt that that's something that they will eventually get to whether it's this year I have no doubt that that's something that they will eventually get to whether it's this year or not. So It's gonna be close though, isn't it? I mean the fact they play each other on the final day It might not go that far. I think Birmingham themselves would insist they're not getting too far ahead of themselves They've got to go to Newcastle on Sunday Which is a really difficult game and they probably would need to win that one to then have a chance on the final day. But if it went to the final day and it was a top two shootout, what a treat we're in for. And one final thing on that, I must admit, I'm a little bit gutted that that's not really been picked up for a

separate broadcast slot. I think it's such a shame that it does go down to a big promotion shootout, that it will fall on the same day as things like the Manchester Derby, the day that possibly Chelsea might win the league as well potentially, depending on the permutations, and it would be such a shame wouldn't it if that didn't get the spotlight that it deserved because that's going to be an absolute cracker if it goes down to that final day. Absolutely, it's so frustrating though isn't it because you have to have all the games on the final day of the season at the same time kicking off for fairness otherwise

you'd go okay well maybe you could put that on a Friday night for example but you know two points between those two teams is going to make for a fascinating last couple of days and I hope it does go down to the last day which is at St Andrews on the 4th of May. How much are you looking forward to it Soph? It's exactly what the league needs isn't it? This feels like the most exciting championship season in a long time. Yeah and there's been quite a few whether you look at the top or the bottom of the table you know we had that huge relegation battle remember a couple of years ago when rugby bar like well Coventry at the time kind of saved themselves on the last day with the last kick of the game. So the championship is wild. I'm really looking forward to that game.

I'm going to be at St. Andrews on that day. And I think I was there for the fixture back at Hayes Lane back in November. And Amy Merritt's got the tactics spot on in terms of how they came through that game. They won 2-1. You know, they really used their aerial ability of the defenders and it wasn't until Isabel Goodwin came on that, you know, London City were starting to find their way through that Birmingham backline. I thought they really attacked it as they should, but there will be a lot of lessons that London City learned from that one. So it's going to be really, really fascinating how they match up. They've both come on such different journeys

over the last eight months or so. And it's going to be a finale that is deserved of this wonderful league that we know is wild. It's completely wild every time it happens. So it's only fitting that it comes out. I hope it goes down to the final day and you know That they can put on a real real show and a real fight for that that title Yeah, it's just as exciting at the bottom of the table as well. Like it has been in previous years as you said, so Portsmouth and Sheffield United both locked in a fight for survival She Sheffield United, you know, as we know, we're challenging at the top for a long time. Only one's going to go down this year because Reading obviously pulled out of the league last summer and Portsmouth have been on a real journey this season, Emma.

One of two teams to come up from the FA Women's National League this season, you'll remember, turned pro over the summer. It was always going to be a bit of an adjustment, but they've still managed to find results when it matters. Yeah, I think it's been a really interesting campaign for them. I remember speaking to some of the Portsmouth players back in September on the media day before the season started and, you know, they were talking about their kind of double lives that they led last year and I found it so just incredible hearing the stories, you know, they had people who were working in the NHS, they

had teachers, they had, you know, and landscapers, it was incredible to see that kind of turnaround how they were then suddenly, you know, walking in in the summer to a full time professional environment and having to adjust to that. So I think, given that context, I think they'll be really pleased with with their season. You know, they've picked up results against kind of the teams that they've needed to in and around them.

You know, they beat Sheffield United, which was kind of, you know, obviously the big one given their that other team down at the bottom. And then, you know, they got that draw with Southampton and, you know, they beat Sunderland as well. So that's kind of those teams in that in that final four. You know, so I think, I think they'll be pretty pleased. It was always going to be difficult. We know that there's quality in the National League, we know there's quite a lot of teams down there now that are really starting to invest in women's football. And I think Portsmouth have shown that if you sort of back them in the right way, if you give them the facilities and the elite coaching

and the professional environment around them, then it's possible to be able to compete with these teams in the top two tiers. So yeah, I think it's been a good campaign for them. And I'm delighted to see that it's all but mathematically confirmed that they're likely to stay up because of their superior goal difference. So yeah, really, really good season for Portsmouth. Yeah, their last game of the season is actually this weekend on Sunday against Blackburn because they would have played Reading on the last day of the season. So they've actually got that day off. Not so great for Sheffield United, Tom. They've got this game in hand over Portsmouth, but their final two games are against Southampton and Sunderland, so actually, you know, there's

quite a few anxious faces around the blades. What's gone on so badly wrong for them this year? I think two key things you can point to. One, really, is a real lack of money. That just doesn't seem to be really the money that they're the resources there. And I think that Ash Thompson and the team really have actually fought really well against that relatively small budget. And the second key thing is they can't score goals. They scored one goal every two games on average and they start the season. We talked about Goodwin earlier.

Of course, Goodwin was sold to London City Lionesses and she's the season. We talked about Goodwin earlier, of course Goodwin was sold to London City Lionesses and she's the least top scorer. If she's still there, this is the team in the first two thirds of the pitch, good enough to be mid-table. They can't score goals, there's nobody in the team with more than four goals. So that's on the pitch, that's been their real Achilles heel. I'm going to disagree with Emma though this this I don't think this is over at full because playing Southampton at home that this is Southampton on a dreadful run they've not won a game since November not one a single game since November they are on the form guide there equal worst team in the league

so I don't think this is done at all. Sheffield United will really believe they can do it. Portsmouth played Blackburn of course this weekend, but then that's their last game Portsmouth. So Blackburn could still go down as well. You know, Blackburn, if Blackburn got nothing from their final two games, they could be overtaken by Sheffield United as well as Portsmouth. So I think it's right down to the wire. And the fact that Portsmouth don't play on the final day puts immense pressure on this weekend for Portsmouth now. They've done a really good run Portsmouth. They've made massive improvements, but they will know they cannot go into the

final day or they will certainly not want to go into the final day. Not safe because just sitting there watching on you know on online hoping that someone does you a favor is not how you want to be on the final day don't discount Sheffield United just yet. No Sheffield United on seven points having played 18, Portsmouth on 10 having played 19, Blackburn on 12 having played 18, tight at the bottom as well. Bristol City were relegated from the WSL last season, so always a worry with a rebuilding process when that happens, but how do you think they've done so far this season? They're sitting in fifth as it

stands. I think it was always going to be a readjustment year for Bristol City and I think it's natural to instinctively think they're going to come straight back up, haven't gone down, but I do think they've had to kind of rebuild in a lot of areas. They lost Laurel Smith, you know, their manager at the start of the season or just before the start of the season. A new like Stephen Kirby came in, had to kind of readjust quickly to the league and the group of players that he had. So I think it has been a season of like trying to reestablish themselves in the football club. They brought in kind of a new strategy in kind of the autumn, which was really interesting. I think I spent some time down at the training ground earlier this season,

and it was all about building for the future. It was about building Lionesses for the future. They want to become a team that really, really produces young players. And they have such a big catchment area in that southwest. There's no other team down there at the moment that quite covers the area that they've got to cover. And there is a whole emphasis on providing a pathway for young girls coming through to play football. So that was a huge emphasis on it and less about maybe the on-pitch kind of targets that they have. They definitely want to get back up to the WSL, don't get me wrong, but they are aware that that's going to take time

and they've got some really, really good people in place behind the scenes to try and do that, I think, and try and hold to the values of Bristol City as a football club. They are so community focused, they are about you know building football up in the region. You can tell that when you go to any game at you know Ashland Gate how rooted in the community they are and they're holding on to those values while trying to rebuild you know to an elite level football club. So it's going to take bit of time, but I think that Bristol Sports is such a huge organization in terms of what they do for sports in Bristol and how you look at the Bristol Bears rugby,

you've got the Bristol City women as well. And they've got the right people behind the scenes to try and push out forward, but it's just gonna take a bit of time. But I'm not worried about their future at all. They've got people who are really dedicated behind the scenes who really want to make this a success. It's just going to take a while. Yeah. And what a difference it makes when you do have that, you know, money obviously makes a big difference as well, but people running these clubs and

wanting success is huge. We talked about Portsmouth and actually Newcastle United, the other team new to the division, level on points with Bristol City and Becky Langley's side looking pretty comfortable in mid-table. Could mathematically actually still finish in the top three Emma? They've got lofty ambitions, we've seen what the owners have done with the men's team. How happy will they be with their first season in the championship do you think? It's an interesting question because I think they'll be okay, I think they'll be fine with it. I think you know the impression certainly that I got from speaking to people at the club at the

start of the season and you know Becky Langley who by the way I think is a really impressive person and you know a really exciting coach. I think it was always clear that money can't buy you everything, it can buy you a lot in women's football. But I think you still need you still need time, you still need experience. And obviously, this was all new to them. And I think it was going to take time to build that. But I do think they probably would have liked to have been challenging a bit more towards the top of the table, which I know sounds silly, but I do think because of their ambitions they were high and I think it's been okay. I think this was kind of like the bare minimum for them really was to just be kind of stable and in that mid table. So I don't think it's a bad season at all, but I think they probably would have wanted a little bit more. You know, I was looking back through their results and And I think, you know, it's only one win out of their five so far against those in the top three. And so that's obviously been kind of the big difference for them. They picked up a few costly draws as well. They have that defeat at Durham, which I think would have been really disappointing for them. So there's been, it's been up and down, it's been a roller coaster, I think. And I think that inconsistency is what's cost them a little bit in terms of being higher up the table. But they've definitely got foundations there. Obviously, you know, they've got a good club structure and they've got the money.

So they won't be concerned at all. But I think next season, you know, the expectation and the pressure will increase because when you have that money and you have that backing, it demands results and it demands success. So yeah, I think it's been a par season for them. Two teams who have been challenging at the top and have been top this season, kind of stalwart teams I would describe them as, close runners Charlton and Durham, Tom. I mean, they'll be they'll be ruining some of the missed chances actually and looking back on how the last year's gone because they're regularly in and around the top but just for some reason not able to take

that last step what's the reason for that? At one point it really did look as though they were right in the mix you know there was that period wasn't there about a month or two ago when any one of seven teams could have won the title personally I went into the start of the season thinking thinking that this could be Charlton's year because they'd had such an incredibly impressive defensive record in the previous season. They haven't been quite as good at the back this term, but they're still doing very well. I think if you think about Charlton and Durham, my overriding thought is that they're actually doing very, very well just to be competing up against these two very, very

rich and wealthy clubs now in London City and Birmingham. You've got financially two teams up there who in terms of the off, you know, the off-field staffing and the budgets, you know already funded significantly better than a lot of WSL teams. So I don't want to be too hard on Charlton and Durham because they've done a really good job by just having a real crack at it. So the key to getting over the line, you need that real goal scorer like a good win and you need, I suppose, there've been a lot of really big decisive games up there between the heads of heads and I suppose ultimately it'll come down to small margins. There's not a big gap. So they're the sort of teams I'd love to, I wish there was a playoff for them. I really wish there was a playoff format.

This whole season has been a great advert for the idea of two teams getting up and the second place being decided about playoff campaign. If you imagine the playoff system right now, if the table status is a semi-final between Bristol City and Birmingham, a semi-final between Durham and Charlton, I would be looking forward to that so much. And I think those would be really close ties. Yes, I love that kind of thing. That's a great idea.

Go take it. Go take it to the board. Three more teams just to kind of run our eye over. So varying fortunes for them, Sunderland, Southampton and Blackburn, we touched on Southampton a moment ago. All have failed to invest significantly in their squads this season. And that is reflected ultimately in the table. Yeah, I mean, they're all different individually in terms of what they're

kind of doing within the women's women's game. I think for Sunderland, I was struck by how few players they brought in over the summer to bolster that squad, especially after having such a good season last year. They pushed Crystal Palace quite close to the line, and they were very disappointed with that. And now to be kind of dropping down to seventh position, it is a disappointing season for them.

I know they are kind of embedded in the Northeast in terms of what they offer for the women's game and Mel Ray is a brilliant coach as well and she's very very Sunderland, you know, everything's, she's Miss Sunderland I think as well. So I think it's, they just really struggled or failed to invest and they brought in some good players on loan but I think it's that lack of investment that is kind of a theme throughout the championship this year amongst teams who haven't stepped up and unfortunately for some they've been lumped into that. They had a quite good start to the year but they've really trailed off in the second half of the year and I think that's probably why they just don't have the squad depth to deal with it.

Southampton have been really disrupted this season. I think they have struggled with consistency at times, they've not bought players, they have such a thin playing squad coming into the start of the season. They've had to rely on learning players in the second half of the season and they've gone for really good young players, but really good young players need time, right? And they need to get the experience. And when you're bringing in Leila Harbert, who is huge potential, but she's 18 years old, and it's kind of her second year in championship football.

And someone like Viv Lea, another England under 19 international, she is coming on loan from Arsenal. Once again, she is trying to establish herself as a 19 minute a week player. They're very much at that start level of their career. And you can't, when you're playing against, when you're coming up against the likes of Birmingham City who have Emily van Egmond in midfield and Lucy Quinn up front or Simone McGill, the vast kind of difference in quality in experience, I guess, is just so clear to see. It's going to be interesting to see what they do in the summer.

They obviously lost Remy Allen halfway through the season, their manager, when things weren't going well and Marion Spacey-Kale has taken up the reins again. So I'm very, very interested to see what they're going to do this summer. Blackburn, different story as well. We had all of those reports before the start of the season about their owners and, you know, how they're not putting enough into the women's game. How, I mean, Blackburn is a real sad story in a way. There's such a hotbed of talent in the past. You know, they've had so much influence on Lionesses, a bit like the Sunderland.

You know, they really do train up, you know, young players for the future success. But they've really let them down in terms of what they're providing behind the scenes. And I'm going to be really interested to see how they step up over the summer, or if they will, because their requirements of being in this league are only going to get, you know, more imperative or stronger. And they're going to have to buck up their ideas if they want to compete or if they want to stay in the championship. Yeah well I mean the championship is now under the control of the WPLL and it actually looks like it's going to be renamed back to the WSL2 over the

summer Emma. Excitingly every game is going to be streamed on YouTube from next season as well. You can tell how exciting the league is. What more needs to be done, do you think, just to wrap this all up to make this thrilling league keep thriving? Well, Tom sort of stole my thunder a little bit with his suggestion for the play-off because I absolutely think that is the way forward. I think there has to be two teams going up from the championship. We're talking about all these ideas that have come out in, you know, in reports about

WSL expansion and WPLL plans for that. And I think the easiest suggestion is just to have two come up from the championship, have a playoff system where, so that, you know, as Tom said, the end of the season just becomes so exciting and you have these huge flagship games. I think it helps encourage investment lower down because if you're a team, you know that is sort of in that mid table bracket, you're thinking, Oh, I tell you what, if we get in the top six, we give ourselves a chance to getting in the WC and I think that has such a significant impact then. I also think there's teams in the

National League who, you know, went, as I said before, when you look at the likes of Portsmouth and Newcastle, that have shown that they're investing lower down as well, so can we expand the championship so that there's an extra spot for coming up for those teams? I think it just has an open effect on the pyramid. So for me, there's been a lot of suggestions that are complicated and that are radical. I've got no problem with suggestions but I just think there's a lot of easy solutions out there and it's just expanding the leagues and giving more chances for promotion and then just see what happens next. But that's the way forward, get playoffs and yeah, let's just make it really exciting at the end of the season. Right, we're starting a petition for playoffs on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Brilliant that was fascinating. We will obviously keep you updated

as to how the final two games of the season go as well over the next couple of weeks. Quick story before we go that I want to talk to you about Tom because you've been working on it. Daniel Johnson, the chair of Whole City Ladies, has submitted a request for the club to be relegated from the FA Women's National League Northern Premier Division. They're currently ninth in the league, they've comfortably secured their safety but the request is coming after several accusations of financial mismanagement against him by several players. Other allegations have also been made and the FA are working with the club to try and find a resolution. What more are you able to tell us on this?

Yeah, a really complicated and concerning situation at Hull, a club that is completely independent and run separately from Hull City men's team, that's important for us to say. The weekend before last, several of their players took to social media to make various different allegations about the co-owner and co-director, Mr Daniel Johnson, and he's not commented or responded to any of those allegations in public. The Guardian did reach out to him for a response and we've not had a reply. He did change his Twitter profile picture to a picture of a lion, but as such, other than that, has been very inactive online. As we understand it, he submitted a request to the league to ask the team be relegated, which my sources within the club and I think a lot of the playing squad as well

are very much suspicious and alleging that that was done as a retaliation to some of those very public claims. I'm not expecting the FA to take that request seriously at all because as I understand it the FA only considers voluntary relegation requests which are very very rare in the instances where it's come from the whole club and there's evidence provided by a board as to why the club has decided they want to do this. They will not take it seriously coming from one individual. But in terms of solutions going forward, I mean, listen, it's very complicated because Mr Johnson, you know, does have 50% of the shares. He's a joint co-director and anyone who wants to come in

and hypothetically buy the club or take over the club is going to need to come to some sort of agreement with him. And our understanding is that the whole City men's team don't really want to engage in Mr Johnson at all. There could be options on the table for Hull to have a fresh start, but that's complicated as well because that could mean the bottom of the pyramid and I'm sure the current playing squad won't really want to drop down. So it is a really complicated situation and I know the FA are working on it very hard, they're liaising with the

club and I think there's a lot of people trying to find a positive solution so let's hope that in the coming weeks that there's something positive for the team across the summer. Yeah very much so we'll keep you updated on that of course. A bit of good news to end on around the FA Cup final so the Premier League has agreed to requests from both Chelsea and Manchester United to move their men's league match to avoid a clash with the Adobe Women's FA Cup final. The showpiece encounter takes place of course between the two at Wembley on Sunday the 18th of May so the men will now play at Stanford Bridge on the evening of the Friday before which actually allows fans to watch both

matches the men's and the women's and actually is the first time that a men's fixture has been moved for a women's game will end on an email from Jim Hearson it feels pretty significant that Chelsea against Manchester United in the Premier League's been shifted so it doesn't clash with the Women's FA Cup final, doesn't it? As well as being better for fans, it gives big Sir Jim Radcliffe no excuse not to head to Wembley this year. We shall see whether he's there, won't we? Have a read of moving the goalposts this week. Soph's done a brilliant piece on the NSL,

the new Canadian league that we were talking about. We'll catch up with Soph in the coming weeks to see how the first week of action panned out as well. But it's been a pleasure team. It's been wonderful. Em, take care. Has the blanket gone off yet or are you still cold? It's wrapped around even tighter. I can't wait for the sun in April. Oh I thought we were going to warm your cockles on the pod. Tom Gary lovely to see you as always keep grafting you are such a hard worker it's terrifying it puts me to shame. Not at all mate lovely to see you too take care. Soph go grab yourself a hat it's chilly apparently. Yes I need to move to my summer one.

Right, see you all soon. Keep having your say. Send in your questions via social media or email us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com. As ever, a reminder to sign up for our weekly Women's Football Newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts. Sign up. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and James Hurley.

Music composition was by Laura Iredell. Our executive producer is Salamat. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and James Hurley. Music composition was by Laura Iredell. Our executive producer is Salamat.