The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Ballon d’Or controversy, Rubiales and a view from South America – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

Faye Carruthers, Suzanne Wrack, Moyo Abiona and Tim Stillman discuss a busy international break full of talking points – plus Júlia Belas Trindade shines the spotlight on South America

Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today,

starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected, be Zen. This is The Guardian. Hello, Women's Football Weekly fans. I'm just going to send you an apology, but then also a little bit of a treat as well. First of all, I apologise if the quality of today's pod is not quite what you're used to in terms of my microphone, but I'm afraid my recording didn't work. I'm in Belgium at the moment, ahead of the Lionesses match in the Nations League later on tonight. So I'll apologise for that, but no apology needed because there are zero,

and I mean zero, trick-or-treating or Halloween puns throughout this pod. So enjoy, on the 31st of October, a Halloween-free podcast. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Anyone for tennis? No, sorry, we're a football podcast, aren't we? Not for the first time the Ballon d'Or awards have caused some controversy not in terms of the winner congratulations to Spain's Aitana Bonmati but by scheduling it in a women's international window so many of the

players shortlisted couldn't attend but it's okay because equal pay advocate Novak Djokovic could be there we'll dive into the second round of Nations League fixtures as they reach their conclusion as well as rounding up all the international action and heading to South America. Meanwhile, Luis Rubiales has been banned from football for three years. You'll be unsurprised to know he's appealing. So we'll discuss all that preview next week's WSL fixtures plus take your. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel, the only phone engineered by Google and official mobile phone

of Arsenal Football Club, Liverpool Football Club and the England teams. Google Pixel is helping fans get closer to the game they love, with access to fresh content and never-before-seen footage of their favourite players and teams. The new Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro are fast and secure, with the most advanced pixel cameras yet. And Google AI powers amazing features for photos and video so you can get even closer to the game. Search Google Store to find out more. Susie Rack, I miss you in Belgium. When are you joining me?

Well, I've got to jump off this podcast and head straight to King's Cross, so imminently. Excellent. I am booking our lunch as we speak. We've got a new tradition, haven't we? I try and find some random gluten-free cafe and force my allergies onto everybody else and you all say, wow, food's amazing. I'm like, yeah, welcome to my new world uh Tim Stillman a late call up but you are very welcome as always how are you yeah not too bad thank you availability is the best ability in all of that Moyo Abiona it's the first appearance of the season for you how have you been I've been good I've literally just come back from holiday. So I'm feeling refreshed, ready to start. Excellent.

Oh, where did you go? Brazil. Well, this is a perfect pod for you to come back to in that case, Moyo, because we've got the wonderful Julia Berastrindade on with us talking South American football. So that will be a delight, bearing in mind you're a new fan. But let's head to France first of all, shall we? Here is

a tweet from Kate. Novak. I mean, all due respect for him, but WTF? I don't even know where to start with that. So let's just kind of give some context for anybody who doesn't really know. Because while the Lionesses and many other women's players were busy preparing

for tonight's matches, the football world descended on Paris on Monday night for the Ballon d'Or Awards. It was the fifth edition in which women's players have been recognised. And it was Barcelona star and Spain World Cup winner Aitana Bonmati that took home the top prize. Sam Kerr finished second. Breakthrough star down under Salma Paraluelo was third. I mean, look, first and foremost, no arguments with the winner, Susie. Oh, none at all. I mean, by far the best player of the year, winning a World Cup, Champions League, everything domestically, European Player of the Year. I mean, there really was only one name on

the trophy. And, you know, when you think about Alexia Puteas having won it back to back and then being out injured for quite some time, meaning that Aitana Bomati maybe got the sort of flowers she deserved, for want of a better phrase. With Alexia in the side, she sort of was overshadowed a little bit. But I think without her, Bomati has really stepped up as a bit more of an attacking threat as well. And yeah, superb season. The best player in the world at the moment by far.

Yeah, just such incredible close control. Wonderful, wonderful player. Yep, absolutely. The ceremony itself wasn't without its interesting moments, I think it's fair to say. As you tweeted, Tim, nothing says celebrate the achievement of female athletes like inviting a male athlete who advocated against equal pay to talk about himself and the completely different sport he plays I mean it was quite remarkable really that they thought it was a good idea to have the famous women's football champion and ally Novak Djokovic

handing out the award can you make it make sense to me, please? Not really, no. When you look at Lionel Messi, he had his award handed to him. Bon Matis, it wasn't even on the stage when she arrived. They had to go and get someone to get it out of the box backstage, like they hadn't even planned to that extent. But it's just illustrative of the fact that clearly not one single kind of person who is invested in women's sports was spoken to about this because I think even one person would have just said bit tone deaf don't do that you know even putting aside what Djokovic has and hasn't said about equal pay in tennis in the past and I had a lot of his fans in my mentions correcting me about how he has since changed his views on and things like that

and that's that's kind of fine but not really the point it's very very tone deaf when there are very very many female athletes even if you didn't necessarily think it should be a footballer you know a high achieving female athlete from another sport like anyone could have told you that and what this tells you is that nobody was asked basically and then you ally that with the fact that it took place during the women's international break I know players like Beth Mead and Vivian Meadamer last year said that this award just made them feel like they were an afterthought and clearly very little has been done since then to correct that yeah um Didier Drogba at least did kind of say, come on, this is your moment,

come up to the front afterwards. But that was after the really confusing part where she went to the lectern to give a speech. And then, as you say, the award wasn't there. And it was all just very confusing. And listen, I've taken part in many as in behind the scenes award ceremonies, and you always brief the winners if they know they're winning. You brief them beforehand of this is what we're going to do we'll give you the award so either that hadn't happened or it didn't happen how they told her it was going to happen anyway it made her look and

feel quite awkward it felt up the top which is just absolutely unacceptable you wouldn't do that to Lionel Messi in fact you didn't do that to Lionel Messi. Also, kind of on this point, Moyo, it feels really poor that there's not a women's equivalent of the Yashin Trophy for the world's best goalkeeper as well. Mary Earp's finished fifth in the overall standings, but you'd think there'd perhaps be more recognition. It is something that Serena Wiegmann said, you know, hopefully as the game grows, we'll get more than one women's award. No, I completely agree. When I was looking at it as well, it's more a case of it's not difficult for them to implement,

which then just shows further that they just don't want to do it. They don't want to make that effort because it's not actually that much effort for them to implement it. But the fact that they're not doing it, there's not talk of them doing it. And it seems to be a conversation every year as to why they don't do it and still that's not enough for them to change yeah it's annoying from my perspective as well because they're doing this thing where they're giving okay they're finally giving women an award and it's almost a sense of they want us to be grateful that they're doing this and if we're going to be grateful for something it should at least be done well the bare minimum that they are doing should at if we're going to be grateful for something it should at least be done well the bare minimum that they are doing should at least be done well and it feels like

they're doing this to a bare minimum standard whilst not also doing the other things that they're doing for the men as well i don't know how they they implement it in terms of do they address it and say okay yeah we haven't done this or do they just slide it under the rug and just say okay cool next year we just implement it without making a big show of the fact that we're implementing it I saw someone tweet saying okay but what will it be called there's a lot of top keepers that have come through the women's game that it can be named after um so I don't think that is really a big talking point in terms of like how they're going to push through that award but yeah I think it's something that needs to be done yeah I tell you what there's some quite heavy and dusty rugs out there in the

football world aren't there that we need to start removing uh Susie Jane asked is the time right to add more awards for women's football at the Ballon d'Or e.g goalkeeper young player etc assuming that FIFA can actually sort out the scheduling and appropriate staging I mean yeah obviously like they probably spent more money on the little speedboat along the Seine to carry the two trophies to the venue than it would cost them to stick on another three awards for the women's that would bring it up to the level of the men's. I just like, that is just baffling to me. I don't know why they didn't do it when they brought in the women's Ballon d'Or in 2018, you know, 67 years with it just being a solely men's reward

and then having a whole load of awards. Unless you open up those trophies that are men's awards to being able to be won by both men and women, but they're never going to do that. So at least give them their own award. I'd like to see the Nadine Anger Award or something for best goalkeeper and stuff. You know, there's no reason why we...

The Marta Award for best striker. Like, let's... Come on. on like it's not hard to i that off the top of my head in about 30 seconds like um it's not hard to be creative about what they could be or look like and it just smacks of afterthought you know they would never ever stick in a men's international window um you would never see players like harry kane flying in from ahead of an england camp on match day minus one to go and collect an award or messy doing it or whatever you know like you just never would see it so why why are we having to watch it and why are players having to make that choice as well you know barcelona have got a game against switzerland and they're having to fly their players in to pick up awards the day before it you know England have got Belgium again and you know a whole host of players like Georgia Stanway we spoke up about it

who you know has never been nominated before and doesn't get to go like just yeah makes me so angry yeah she said it was potentially a once in a lifetime opportunity, which it is for some of these players. She said it would be nice in future if it wasn't on match day minus one, so we can actually enjoy the experience. Some joined up thinking would certainly be nice. And our Telegraph colleague, Tom Gary also tweeted scheduling the Ballon d'Or ceremony in the middle of the Women's International window shows you the organisers simply don't care about the Women's Award, which is echoed on this pod. Let me just go through the one to 10, by the way, before we actually crack on with the action. Tell us whether or not you agree. Aitana Bonmati, number one,

Sam Kerr, number two, Salma Paralewelo, three. Then it was Fridolina Rolfo, Mary Earps, Olga Carmona, Alexandra Popp,p Patricia Gallaro Linda Caicedo and Rachel Daly was number 10 incidentally in terms of England off the top of my head

I think Millie Bright was 11th and Georgia Stanway 23rd I think so you know really good standing as well for the Lionesses

and that's where we're going to head next to the actual football let's head to King Power Stadium the Leicester one where the Lionesses were back

to winning ways on Friday night with a narrow 1-0 victory over Belgium in the Nations League, thanks to a goal from Lauren Hemp. I mean, look, there was loads of pressure coming into this game, it felt, Susie, because the Lionesses had never lost

back-to-back matches under Serena Wiegmann. But as you said in your match report, the narrow scoreline didn't actually tell the full story. Yeah, I mean mean it was really satisfying performance in that respect in that like England completely dominated and controlled the game had so many chances to score more than just the one goal that's the frustrating thing I

suppose is like there seems to be a lack of thought in the final thirds for that final pass or you know shot it's often balls being hit into bodies or crosses going in to you know really kind of compacted areas like it's something's not quite clicking creatively in that final third and I thought that a little bit for Arsenal at times as well this season like I found it triggering um but uh know, we've seen the difference at moments this season for Arsenal and Chelsea when Beth Mead came on for the first time and plays the pass that cuts open the Aston Villa defence or Frank Kirby playing for Chelsea.

That's something that just pulls them out of a sticky situation and brings them into the game and extends their lead and things like that like just England is missing that kind of level of conscious creativity in the box for me like I thought so many players played well got into the right positions but just did not make the right choice I think that was a bit of bad luck as well you know there was art just being seconds off of like inches off sort of you know poking into the back of the net at times and stuff but yeah that's the big part for me is that little creative edge up top is missing

yeah I mean we got a question from Rob on this actually Moyo as the Lionesses suffered from the same problem as Arsenal with a lack of goals what or who is the solution I mean they had 23 shots but only seven were on target yeah before the world cup as well there were a couple games that were like this for the lionesses and I think that was what was making people have a bit of doubt going into the world cup in general I do think though they are working like really good chances like I agree with what Susie's saying in that respect I do think as well though at club level a lot of them aren't firing so like I think they're taking that sort of mindset into international camps like if we look at someone like Ella Toon for example

she isn't really numbers wise performing at club level and I think it gives you an added pressure when you go into international camp because you're trying to get rid of the funk like in international level and trying to take it back to club and I think in that sense get rid of the funk, like, in international level and then trying to take it back to club. And I think in that sense, a lot of the players are forcing it because they want to sort of change their form and change their, like, how things are going for them. I don't think it's necessarily what Serena's doing in terms of, like, I don't think she can do anything set-up-wise. I think it's more a case of the players themselves

needing to shake off the form that they're currently in. A lot of people talk about the rotation aspect and I agree to some respect but if we look at the attackers that actually available I don't think any of the attackers really are in form bar Chloe Kelly and maybe Lauren Hemp I wouldn't really say any of the attackers at club level are scoring a lot and assisting a lot so I think it's more case of if they can shake off at club level are scoring a lot and assisting a lot. So I think it's more a case of if they can shake it off at club level or when their form just changes, I think it will change for England as well. Yeah, it's a really good point. And if we take a look at the team, Tim, having a fit again,

Kiera Walsh plus Chloe Kelly and an in-form Niamh Charles as well in the starting XI was really positive. But what did you make of the decision to return to a back four for the first time since the World Cup? Yeah, I think Susie and Moyo have really got at something here in terms of there's a bit of a balance issue in attack. And I think a lot of it kind of is in that number 10 position. I think at the moment, England look more dangerous

with the three at the back because it allows Lauren Hemp and Alessia Russo to play as a front two. Russo does a lot of really, really good work outside the box, but she's not like an Ellen White type who's going to be in the six yard box as well, which is why I think Hemp and Russo together as a strike pairing worked really, really well. And the other thing that that back three formation did is Lucy Bronze and Rachel Daly as your wing backs they're both really strong in the air so they were both offering a back post threat as well so I think at the moment England do look more dangerous in that kind of back three formation up front however I completely understand wanting to flip that to a kind of back four because

then you get an extra attacker on but But if you have an extra attacker, they have to be dangerous. And at the moment, as Moyo said, Ella Toon just isn't. She's not really producing. And I don't know whether the answer is to play. So Lauren James kind of came into that position during the World Cup

and suddenly it kind of felt like it unclogged England a little bit. And you've got Fran Kirby coming back and at the Euros you had that kind of time share between Kirby and Toon I think a lot of it is if you're going to play a back four that number 10 particularly playing off a player like Russo who does a lot of work outside the box really has to pop and Toon isn't at the moment which is not to say she can't or that it all rests with her but I think there's just a slight balance issue. And I still just slightly prefer England in that back three, because I think it gives them more in the penalty area. Yeah, it's a really good point, actually.

And, you know, we thought El Atun and Alessio Russo, having stepped up from being substitutes in the Euros, would click really well together because of their relationship at Manchester United. But it just hasn't happened, really. But really but Tim mentioned Susie the return of Fran Kirby she came on in the 65th minute we knew it was going to take her a little bit of time but it's not taking her too much time to to have an impact at Chelsea but it's going to be really important going forward to have her creativity and vision back in the side yeah I, I mean, like I say, I think that's what's missing. She's world-class. Ella Toon is a fantastic player on her day, right?

She's a really, really good player, but she's not Frank Kirby. And that's a really, really hard hole to fill and role to play. Lucy Bronze said it after the game that they got to a World Cup final without Frank Kirby. It feels a bit of an insane thing to say because she's that important to the team and i think for you know should england earn team gb a place at the olympics and for the euros the following year like she would be so important fit but the problem is is you can't rely on a fit fan kirby because you know her injury record

speaks for itself so like the concern is then you know kind of what are you looking at beyond that and that is concerning because there's not a huge number of players of frank kirby's quality in the world let alone in the england set up i think ella too needs a rest really badly um you know she's very young and has played a lot of football similarly leslie russo but i think arsenal and the england set up together have done quite well at managing her early on in this season in terms of you know like in the last window not calling her up for the first game and bringing her in midway through camp and stuff you know that's negotiations that arsenal doing with uh national teams about kind of giving their players

that had such a short turnaround after the world cup a a bit of a break. Mark Skinner did rest her for a game, but it's not enough. To me, she looks really, really exhausted mentally as well. Because when you're not playing well, it's draining. Fran Kirby is vitally important to England's success. And I struggle to think of a player of the quality that she possesses other than Lauren James coming through. But Lauren James doesn't have the consistency yet and is still very young. Yeah, she's a big miss, isn't she?

Had to pull out of the camp with concussion that she picked up in training. And it's a real shame because I think, you know, she is a player that on her best nights can really unlock a defence with a little bit of magic. Look, we're not going to go too heavily into this evening's match because plenty of you will have been listening to this

after the game has taken place. But Moyo, what more would you like to see from the Lionesses in the second of this doubleheader against Belgium? I think just going with a bit more intention in midfield. I feel like sometimes, because Georgia Stalway and Kieran Walsh are so good and so solid in midfield,

it feels as though they get comfortable with the defence just knocking it about between them. I think being a bit more penetrative in getting the ball into the final third could help England. Because you want to be able to sustain pressure. And I think it will start with those two. So it will start with Kieran Walsh and Stanway as well. And then I think from the wide players, I think just deciding between them and the fullbacks, who's going to keep the width. I think we saw a couple of times that sometimes it seems as though

the onus is only on the fullbacks, but we want it to be that the wide players also keep some of the width. You want to keep that sense of like mystery in terms of who's going to actually go wide, who's going to come in. I think that will help them a lot in terms of like making the opposition defense move yeah I agree uh the clean sheet was big as well we haven't actually touched on that it ends a run of five games without one another one later on would be most welcome and as we record uh the lionesses is a level on points with the Netherlands with three games to play obviously if you're listening to this pod after tonight's matches,

that will be different. But the Dutch comfortably beat Scotland 4-0 on Friday night. Daniel van der Donk, Esme Broek, Lyneth Bierenstein with the goals out in Nijmegen. They meet again at Hampden Park on Tuesday night. England must top their group, you'll remember, to have a chance of qualifying automatically for next summer's Olympics on behalf of Team GB. Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we'll talk Rubiales, round up some of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Now, it was confirmed on Monday that the former Spanish Football Federation president, Luis Rubiales, has been banned from all football-related activities for three years. You'll remember he kissed forward Jenny Hermoso on the lips following Spain's Women's World Cup final win over England. A FIFA statement said it reiterates its absolute commitment to respecting and protecting the integrity of all people and ensuring that the basic rules of decent conduct are upheld. Rubiales says he intends to appeal

against the ban, posting on social media, I will go to the last resort to see that justice is done and that the truth shines through. We had an email from Jim which said, Lewis Rubiales' ban feels like it's more than a token slap on the wrists and was passed down fairly rapidly. What's the catch? What do you make of it, Susie? Is there a catch? Like, the truth will out. I mean, just the most ridiculous statement from Rubiales and the idea that there's some kind of catch is also ridiculous. We saw what happened. We're not blind. We've all got eyes.

The whole world saw him grab Jenny Hermoso's cheeks and kiss her on the lips. Consensual, not consensual. That's not appropriate and not okay, right? And the legacy of protesting Spanish players since 2011 and before speaks for itself right like there's been consistent problems within the spanish national team a women's national team set up with the environment um with inappropriate behavior with the culture it's not like it's a new thing that's just sprung out of nowhere as a result of the kiss this has always existed and always been protested against the kiss was just destroyed the camel's back where everyone suddenly sort of went hang on a second maybe these women players are telling the truth about what is going on behind the scenes in spain

so yeah just this oh the truth will come out statement from rubiales just really irritated me because you can't literally lie and distort what we have seen with our own eyes. I think the ban is correct, obviously. You know, it's nice to see FIFA actually take action fairly rapidly for a change. It doesn't always happen. It's sometimes very, very hard to get FIFA's disciplinary committee to investigate. It's nice that they have clearly done this investigation properly and regardless of what he thinks was and wasn't consensual is irrelevant because that is not appropriate behavior in any

sense maybe this isn't the right thing to be angry about but i just thinking to myself just let it go do you know what i mean like if you're rub, like Susie says, like you've been absolutely caught bang to rights. There have been issues for years and years and years that, frankly, you've gotten away with for a very, very long time. You've completely and utterly dominated the whole narrative around Spain winning the World Cup, which should have been and probably still is, I'm sure, for the players, like the highlight of their careers. But even for you, as, you know, the president of the Spanish FA, you could have done better out of that yourself. And so you've completely destroyed it for yourself as well. And again, I'm not saying that's the important thing, but it's just the gall of it all. You know, like Susie says,

like everyone's seen it. It happened on camera, like literally on the stage where they were handing out the World Cup trophy. You could not have done that in a more blatant kind of environment. And that shows exactly how emboldened he felt and probably tells you a lot about what has been going on behind the scenes. But to even appeal it at the moment, like appeal it and do what? What do you think is going to happen to your career? Like it's over, leave it. Do you know what I mean? Like I said, I don't think that that's the biggest thing

to be kind of angry about or concerned about, but I can't get inside the guy's head at all, which I'm not upset about, to be honest. The ban at the moment is at three years. Whether or not he will be successful in his appeal, we will keep you up to date with. Let's round up some of the other Nations League actions, shall we? We just talked about them,

but Spain saw Jenny Hermoso return and score a dramatic late winner in their 1-0 victory over Italy in Salerno. We can finally talk about her in terms of the football again. It's the first time she's featured for her country since that scandal, which engulfed the national team. She said afterwards, football again. It's the first time she's featured for her country since that scandal, which engulfed the national team. She said afterwards, what better joy than to get back here and feel good again,

to score the goal that gets the win. Now I can only smile. I mean, it's a pretty poignant moment really to see her do that. Moyo? Yeah, it is. And it's crazy because we're all talking about it with like annoyance and like just anger that it's gone on for this long.

And that's not even to talk about how she must be feeling, because her name is going to be involved with this. Her name is going to be alongside this, or she's going to be seen as part of this, and she's going to be seen as someone to ask questions about. But this isn't the only scandal to come out of Spain. So it must be annoying for her as well, because she's having to almost deal with the brunt of Spain's nonsense basically but yeah I'm really happy for

her because I think for her as well she wants to put a pin in it in the same way we're like he just needs to let it go she probably wants it to all be done as well and I think her scoring sort of feels like a weight lifted on her shoulders as well yeah Spain face Switzerland this evening the world champions top group a4 with three wins from three games Katie McCabe hit a hat trick for Ireland as they beat Albania 5-1 in Dublin she's made a flying start to the season for club and country which goes back to your point with the lionesses Tim actually she's doing it on both sides such an important player yeah absolutely when you asked the question earlier what do the lionesses need I was thinking Katie McCabe maybe um yeah just a

phenomenal player who's you know 28 coming into her prime and I think the thing about Katie that I've learned over the years is that the tougher things get you know that saying um when the going gets tough the tough get going that's Katie McCabe and it was the same at the end of last season for Arsenal when it got really difficult with injuries she really really stepped up I think she's just one of those athletes one of those people who kind of the more the pressure comes on the more she thrives and I think she's just playing the best football of her career at the moment I've been told by more than one person around Arsenal at the moment that she's playing in different positions for Arsenal and Jonas's position is very much I want her on the pitch and it's kind of that simple and I'll work out the rest later

and you can see why with the form she's in yeah if only you'd have 11 Katie McCabe's where would you be the women maintains their 100% record in Group 1 of League B after their 3-0 and 4-0 wins over Northern Ireland and Hungary last month. They play Albania again later. We mentioned Scotland briefly earlier on. They're going to be boosted by the return of Aaron Cuthbert as they look to improve on Friday's 4-0

defeat by the Netherlands. They've had some brutal injuries to contend with though. Real Madrid's Caroline Weir is out by Munich's Sam Kerr and Manchester United's Emma Watson, all long-term absentees. But Pedro Martinez-Los' side are going to be hoping to put on a better show this evening against the Dutch. Elsewhere, Wales heavily beaten 5-1 by Germany in Sinsheim.

That's the second successive Nations League game. Gemma Granger's side have conceded five goals in. Kerry Holland had equalised for Wales towards the end of the first half, but they were just blown away in the second, including a goal from Chelsea's Shuka Nushkan who continued her good form internationally.

Late heartbreak for Northern Ireland, beaten after conceding a 94th minute winner in a 3-2 defeat out in Hungary. Tanya Ox to be side thought they'd earned a late draw when Aston Villa's Simone McGill scored her first international goal in two years from the penalty spot in the 89th minute, but it wasn't to be ultimately. And it's actually been a really difficult start to this tournament for all the home nations, really, Susie. How do we think the

GB squad's shaping up in terms of potential representation from these other nations other than England if they make it? Not particularly well I mean it's like let's face it if Team GB gets to the Olympics it's going to be a team once again dominated by England players not least because they will have won the qualification our European champions are obviously playing at a certain level of their star players from Scotland Northern Ireland and Wales that you know could potentially edge into the fold particularly from Scotland in the likes of Erika but Caroline Weir if she's back from her injury which seems probably unlikely you know players like that but beyond those you're

struggling to find any of the level of the England players which is really disappointing because it's in a way you know maybe you should be artificial about it and say well this is a Team GB team let's put in a team that is representative of Great Britain regardless of results like I kind of feel like it should be slightly fun as well for every nation involved not that every nation necessarily wants to be involved or the population want their teams to be involved but yeah I mean I suppose it's a really tough one basically like it's going to be dominated by England players you'd have to see some exceptional performances from the very very best of the other home nations to see that change.

World Cup fever still well and truly alive in Australia, by the way. On Sunday, they thrashed the Philippines 8-0 in front of a crowd of nearly 60,000 in Perth in their latest Olympic qualifier, included hat-tricks from Sam Kerr and Caitlin Ford, which should bode well for both Chelsea and Arsenal. Speaking of Chelsea, me officials scored the opener for the USA in their 3-0 victory over Colombia in a friendly on Sunday in San Diego. Twila Kilgore remains in interim charge following Vlatko Andonovsky's departure after the World Cup.

Some less positive news coming out of the Jamaica camp over the last week or so. In a statement released by several senior players on social media on the 21st of October, the reggae girls said they would not play in their Gold Cup qualifiers against Panama and Guatemala, accusing the Football Federation of delayed payments and poor management. The players said they'd not receive full pay for their World Cup performances or bonuses for qualifying and found out they had a new head coach

via social media. The statement read, While this has been one of the hardest decisions we've had to make, we feel it's necessary to take such a drastic stance to put an end to the constant mistreatment we receive from the Jamaica Football Federation. We've dealt with this lack of communication, poor organisation, poor management

and delayed payments from the JFF time and time again. For these reasons, we take our stance in solidarity with hope to end this cycle of mistreatment. Then on Friday, the Federation came out and said its Women's World Cup squad has now been paid. But as yet, the players haven't confirmed if they've received any money. I mean, it's just crazy thinking how brilliantly they performed out in Australia, getting to the last 16, Moyo, and just having to go to these lengths to, you know, out their federation. Yeah, I think there were issues before the World Cup started. They still went to the World Cup, they performed fantastically well. And it was very much as though, like the Jamaican Federation

was saying, wow, look at our girls. But it was very much a case of their performing in spite of what the federation is giving them and i think it was clear that for us to make that distinction as well because it was very easy for them to latch onto the success that the reggae girls brought but they're not holding up their end of the bargain essentially and i think it's even more telling that the fact that it was only after this statement came out like a couple days later they were like okay yeah they've been paid now it shouldn't have to take these sorts of like lengths in terms of protests or like saying you're not going to come to camp or public statements in order for federations to do their bare minimum and what's expected of them in terms of payment in terms of

management in terms of communication and it's just very telling of the women's football sphere in general this is happening in so many federations in terms of it takes a very big statement or gesture for there to be change to come like it shouldn't have to be that it's only once you're called out they're responding with the right thing the right thing should have just been done in the beginning yep i could not agree more now then if you caught the latest Moving the Goalpost newsletter, you will have read the excellent piece by Julia Bellas Trindade about the Libertadores Femenina final and the wider state of women's football across South America.

Last Saturday, Corinthians beat Palmeiras to win their fourth title. Delighted to say that Julia joins us now to tell us more. Please do not judge me on my terrible accent there. I've got you and Tim Stillman to say, no, Faye, utterly useless. Look, let's talk about the final itself. First of all, Julia, a narrow 1-0 win for Corinthians. Were they worthy champions as far as you were concerned? Yes, Corinthians, they have this thing where they have the mentality to win.

So it's a team that has been built over the past six years. And, you know, when they're playing under pressure, they know what to do. They were coached until the final by the current coach of the Brazilian women's national team. And they've won basically everything in Brazilian football, in South American football. They keep begging for world championship, world club championship to measure their forces against Lyon and against some of the big teams in Europe. So yeah, absolutely. It's always a safe bet to say that Corinthians will win. But Palmeiras over the past couple of years or so,

they've been building good teams, great teams, signing national team players. So they're also a good challenge. There was lots of criticism about the format of the tournament. There were poorer attendances, strange scheduling as well. Are the organisers going to listen to these kind of concerns or plough on? Hopefully they will, especially because now these come from the players and in a moment where women's football in Europe and in other continents has been drawing a lot of attention

and a lot of money. So hopefully Comembol will listen to it. For people who don't follow the Libertadores Femenina, the games were played in two stadiums only. So they had over a couple of weeks a really high number of games in two stadiums only. So they had, over a couple of weeks, a really high number of games in two stadiums only. So, you know, for the players who reached the final, they got really worn out pitches.

They got an audience that wasn't able to go watch their home teams. For example, you were two Brazilian teams in the final, and the final was played in Colombia and it's not like Europe where you can find cheap plane tickets or trains or something like that to move around the continent South America is huge so the players especially the Brazilian players have been asking for common ball to have you know a way in home game so that they can play with their audience, they can draw their audience. In the Libertadores, Colombian teams drew a nice audience, an interesting audience, but whenever teams from other parts

of the continent were playing, and honestly, games were on weekdays at 3 p.m., so it's not necessarily a friendly timing to have, you know, a Libertadores game. No, that's crazy. That's absolutely crazy. Look, we know that Brazilian teams have been dominant across the continent in the past, but by the sounds of it, there's a new crop of talent starting to come through, particularly in Colombia and Argentina. Yes. And, you know, with the dominance of Brazilian teams is usually regarding, you know, the numbers.

We have 200 million people there. So some of them can play football and then we can bring them to clubs. I'm not one of those people, but some of them can. But honestly, it's also about the money. And Brazilian football has been getting a lot of attention for decades. And, you know know they sell players to teams abroad they can make some money from that relationship between players and clubs from other countries most likely always see Brazilian dominance in South American club football

but at the same time you see a lot of talent coming out of Colombia, coming out of Argentina. The thing is that these players usually leave their clubs really early to play. Whenever they are doing really well, they leave their clubs to play for Brazilian clubs, other countries' clubs, the United States. So it's quite hard to keep them in their home countries when, you know, Colombia, not long ago, last year in the copa america feminina they were protesting to have a professional league so you know it's kind of hard to keep players under those conditions and i'm not saying that the brazilian league is perfect or the best or anything it's far from it but at least you have some kind of structure, calendar, some clubs that have been doing really well. So that's a way to attract these players from other countries,

other South American countries to Brazilian clubs. And they must be looking at players like Linda Caicedo, who was an absolute breakout star of the Women's World Cup, shortlisted for the Ballon d'Or as well last night. Are there any other young superstars we need to keep our eye out from so we can sound like South American experts? From that squad in the Colombia team that went to the World Cup this year, you can find not even younger players, but players who have been, you know, Guzman, you know, who has just been signed

to play abroad. And Catalina, you have so many good players, so many good talent coming out of Colombia. And it will be really interesting to watch them play over the next few years, because if they get the structure they deserve, if they get the environment they deserve there to build good teams, good clubs, because it all starts in club football. I truly believe there will be a good challenge for Brazil. E aí, Julia? Prazer. Prazer, Tim. A few years ago, Conmebol, you know, you're talking about the dominance of Corinthians and Palmeiras are kind of trying to challenge that. A few years ago, Conmebol brought in a rule, which I think for them was surprisingly progressive,

where they said, if you want your men's team to participate in the Copa Libertadores, you have to have a women's team. So my Brazilian team, Atletico Mineiro, they didn't have a women's team. All of a sudden they got one together very very quickly I'm just wondering what whether that's had any impact in terms of Brazilian domestic women's football and the Copa Libertadores or whether teams have kind of just cobbled together women's teams and not really invested in them? It's usually the second option. It's usually something that the obrigatoriedade, making it mandatory for men's clubs to have women's teams, you know, it kind of forces their hands a little bit.

It makes them sometimes out of spite, I would say. They just put a team together for a couple of months to play the national championship or something that hired the players. That's something that happens a lot in Brazil. But at the same time, when they have a women's team, it's a first step for them to see, look, I can win a championship. I can have something. So Corinthians were, you know, when they built the women's team,

they were in partnership with another smaller club. When they finished the partnership, they just signed all the players they used to have. So it's kind of when you are a huge club like Corinthians, when you have the money, when you have the culture of football already so engraved in you, it's easier. And of course the name for players to say,

I believe for Corinthians, it's easier and of course the name for players to say I believe for Corinthians it's a huge deal so the making it mandatory helps in that sense that players will be able to play for a huge club the players will be able to have access to some structure but at the same time you know it comes with the feeling that it's only to check the box and then you know they won't give the players anything and that happens a lot very frustrating but the more we highlight it then the more we'll hold them to account julia always a pleasure to talk to you we'll catch up again soon thank you thank you everyone moyo you've been in brazil uh what did you make of of the action out there how was it? It was amazing it was amazing so I was supposed to go to one of the games and it got called off because they were about to use a stadium

for a cup final so then it got moved to like a whole different seat so I was like okay I'm not able to go to this game anymore because of time wires but like like when people tweet and say like in Brazil they breathe football like that is not a joke it's really not like every single place that i went football was on like it could be a corner shop there'll be a tv in the back there'll be a tv in the front and football would be on you'll see like six people standing outside like a little shack watching this one game like every single place i went football was on and it was so telling like you go to the beach people be playing football on the beach people playing football

on the street outside the shops like it very much is a football culture out there and no I love it I absolutely loved it I felt at home it was amazing really interesting what Julia was saying there Tim but I mean there have been nine Copa America Femenina. Brazil have won eight of them. Are we going to start to see some serious contenders to their crown over the next few years? I think if you talk to the Brazil players who won it last year, in 2022 that is, that's the first time they really had to work for it. And it's because Colombia challenged them.

And the final was actually very very close on this occasion which doesn't usually happen usually Brazil can win Copa America without too much fuss to be fair Brazil were a little bit transitional they didn't have Marta because she was injured they didn't have Formiga for the first time in a long time so they're in that kind of transition but particularly you know as we saw in the World Cup, Colombia have got a lot of talent, particularly Linda Caicedo. And I think another one of the things, what Julia was saying about the population,

that's absolutely true and the economics that play into that. But I think also for Brazil, having a figure like Marta has been hugely important. And I really hope, at least for Colombia, having someone like Linda Caicedo, who is going to be a world star, potentially of a very similar level, can do something quite similar for Colombian women's football.

And actually the crowds are quite good there. So really it looks like Colombia are the ones that can challenge. The rest, I'm not quite as sure about at the moment. I think we're perhaps a few years away from that. Yeah, it's just going to take a little bit of time, isn't it? Thanks very much to Julia. You can read more from her in the Guardians Moving the Goalposts newsletter.

And of course, here on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, we'll be bringing you lots of all the latest news from around the world in global women's football. Right, just a tease ahead to the return of the WSL this weekend, we've got some really big ties to look forward to. Now then, panellists, you are not good at doing this. So I want just one sentence each, please, if you can try and keep it to that.

So Susie, on Saturday, Aston Villa host Chelsea were spoken a lot about Villa's struggles this season, still yet to get a point. Another really tricky test for them. But they might be thinking they can catch Chelsea cold off the back of the international break. Nah, not going to happen. Chelsea 2-0. I'm going to go with that.

Oh, wow. Susie Rack keeping it short. I am applauding you from afar. Very proud. It's because you've got to get your train, isn't it? Right, then there's a huge one at Meadow Park at 12.30 on Sunday. Tim, Arsenal against Manchester City. The visitors could open up a six-point gap over Arsenal if they get the win.

It's a pretty massive one, isn't it? It is. For Arsenal, it's definitely a must-not-lose. I think in Manchester City, I think we're always going to be a threat for the title because they had a really nice settled summer, not many outgoings, not that many incomings. Arsenal obviously had a slightly more disrupted summer and I think that's shown in the starts the two teams have made. But for Arsenal, this has to kickstart their season really and they do have a good record against City at Meadow Park. Oh, that's a long sentence, but a good one. Lots of conjunctions used in it in order to keep it going.

Very proud of you. Elsewhere, Moyot, Tottenham put their three straight wins to the test against an Everton side who've lost three of their opening four. Are you backing Robert Willeham's side to continue living up to their early form? Yes. Spurs look really good, to be honest. I've been really impressed by them.

Even if we look at the Chelsea game that they lost, they looked really good. They looked threatening. And I think Martha Thomas is just full of confidence right now. The system is working and I'm very, very, very impressed. I think Tottenham win that game. Excellent. It's a triple whammy. Well done, team.

Also on Sunday, we've got Liverpool, Leicester, West Ham, Bristol City and Brighton, Manchester United and of course we'll be back next week to round up all the action Susie I shall see you

for lunch very shortly enjoy your train ride thanks I'm going to have a nap oh lovely I need another nap I feel like

that's all I ever get when I go on international duty I finally get to sleep it's really nice Tim always a pleasure good luck at the weekend thank you very much my pleasure as always Moyo. Good luck at the weekend. Thank you very much.

My pleasure as always. Moyo, so lovely to see you. We shall see you again soon. You too. Thanks for having me. Brilliant stuff. So as I say, the WSL returns this weekend

and we'll be back on Tuesday to round up all the action. Remember, get yourselves involved by emailing us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com or tweeting us

to your questions and make sure you subscribe to the Moving the Goalposts newsletter. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Lucy Oliver. Music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Sal Ahmed. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel, the only phone engineered by Google and official mobile phone of Arsenal Football Club,

Liverpool Football Club and the England teams. Engineered by Google, the Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro are fast and secure with the most advanced Pixel cameras yet. And Google AI powers amazing features for photos and video, so you can get even closer to the game. Search Google Store to find out more. This is The Guardian. your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today, starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com.

Be protected. Be Zen.