The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Berger’s brilliance denies France and Spain march on – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: July 20, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Sophie Downey and Tim Stillman to review two epic quarter-finals and preview the semi-finals.

This is The Guardian. Hi Guardian Football Weekly fans, it's Faye here. Now, after we recorded today's pod reviewing Saturday's quarterfinals and previewing the two semi-finals this week, some news broke that we have to address. And so myself and Susie Rack have just jumped on to update you before you can then listen to the pod that we recorded this morning. So the news concerns England defender Jess Carter who's posted a message on social media addressing racist abuse she's suffered throughout the Euro 2025 tournament. You can read Suzy's article on The Guardian which has

just gone up online for a bit more detail on this as well. Before we hear from Suzy, this is Jess's Instagram post in full. A message to the fans. From the start of the tournament I've experienced a lot of racial abuse. While I feel every fan is entitled to their opinion on performance and result, I don't agree or think it's okay to target someone's appearance or race. As a result of this I'll be taking a step back from social media and leaving it to a team to deal with. As ever I'm grateful for all the support from the genuine fans but I'm taking this measure to protect myself in a bid to keep my focus on helping the team any way

I can. Hopefully speaking out will make the people writing this abuse think twice so others won't have to deal with it. We've made some historic changes with this Lionesses squad that I'm so proud to be a part of and my hope is that by speaking out about this it will make another positive change for all. I'm now looking forward to focusing on putting all of my energy into helping my team Jess Carter. The Lionesses have also put out a collective statement saying, representing our country is the greatest honour. It's not right that while we're doing that, some of us are treated differently

simply because of the colour of our skin. Until now, we've chosen to take the knee before matches. It's clear we and football need to find another way to tackle racism. We've agreed as a squad to remain standing before kickoff on Tuesday. They end it by saying those behind this online poison must be held accountable. Suzy you're in Zurich at the Lionesses base camp. Can you bring us up to speed with everything that's been

going on there today? So I'm just out a very powerful and moving press conference with Lucy Bronze which focused primarily on the situation faced by Jess Carter in recent weeks during the tournament where she's faced a horrific level of racist abuse. And Lucy was very, very powerful on it. She explained that they don't want to take the knee anymore in protest of racist abuse suffered by players because the message isn't as strong as it used to be. It's about putting out another statement to say that it's something that's still a problem and more needs to be done in society. What that is right now, I don't exactly know, it's something we want to work towards and this is a small step to try and make change. She was very emphatic in the

support of the team and the FA towards Jess and any other players suffering abuse in the tournament, which was incredibly moving. She also said they're very confident that the individuals involved will be brought to justice, that they work very closely with the police on incidents of racist abuse online, and they hope that they'll be targeted and stopped from continuing in the way that they are. She also spoke generally about the responsibility of social media platforms and football to A, clamp down on these incidences when they have the power to, and also to step up and campaign against racism more generally. It's not just a football issue, it's a societal

issue. It's something that everyone needs to be mindful of and we shouldn't forget that it's there. Yeah, so it's an incredibly moving press conference, hugely powerful, a lot of solidarity for Jess Carter from the playing group. They clearly written the statement together last night with a lot of emotion in the camp. And yeah, it's been really, really sort of wonderful to see that sort of level of solidarity among them and that support for one of their own as well. And then, you know, kind of taking a stand that will have huge ripples through hopefully the country and the world when the messages go out there and when people read the statements and when they see them not take the knee against Italy because of

it, yeah, it's a huge amount of potential for them to push for change in the way that they have been on so many other issues in recent years. Thank you, Susie. You're right. What we know about this lionessus squad is they won't stop until this issue is addressed properly, not just platitudes from social media platforms, real change. I'm sure we're going to be speaking more on this. What I can tell you is that the Football Association is working with authorities to track down those responsible speaking to police and the platform involved. UEFA have condemned the abuse and Carter's club Gotham FC has also responded in support of Jess saying

we believe in a culture of mutual respect and remain committed to building a game and a community where everyone feels safe, respected and celebrated. There is no place for racism in our sport. Look, there's so much more to discuss on this, which we will be doing on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. But for now, here is the pod that we recorded early on Sunday morning before this news broke. Hello, I'm Faker Rothers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Now that is how you do a penalty shootout. And Katrin Berger, take a bow. Germany say bon voyage to France despite being down to 10 for the majority of their quarterfinal. Hair pulling, a red card, a missed penalty, goals ruled out and then a shootout.

The game had everything. The hosts are out as well. Spain saw off Switzerland, another match full of drama. And so we have our four semi-finalists confirmed. We'll dissect all that, we'll preview the semis, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. What a panel we have today. Sisy Rack, how are you doing? I'm alive.

Are you all cheesed out yet? You're alive, which is good. Yeah, yeah. I'm cheesed out. I've cut down on the cheese. Like, you know, you reach cheese saturation point and I think I'm there. I did buy some cheddar in the supermarket the other day and the guy at the counter went, oh, English cheese. And I was like, yeah. And he was like, do you think it's better than Swiss cheese? And I went, no, but it just melts really well on pasta. And then hurriedly left embarrassed and ashamed of my buying imported English cheese.

I don't even want to know how much imported English cheese was in Switzerland. Oh God, I didn't look look but we got charged 15 pounds, that's the rough conversion, for two bottles of tap water for the table in a Mexican the other day which seems to be pretty standard. That gives you the context. Oh I bought some gyoza, you know like just five pieces of gyoza, 16 pounds. Wow. Wow. I did see friend of the pod, Emma Sanders, say that she was charged almost 40 pounds for four small beers the other day. Interesting. Soph Downey, back from Basel.

What time did you roll in after that epic last night? I got home about three o'clock in the morning and then when you're after a game I'm like constantly wired so it takes a little bit of time to get to sleep but yeah living on fumes at the moment but loving loving life and I'm gonna be a bit controversial here and say that I don't actually like cheese that much I like cheese on my pasta but I probably don't really belong in Switzerland do I if that's the case? Maybe not but neither do I because I can't eat cheese anymore. Goats cheese maybe. Oh god I'm doubting our friendships. I tell

you what it reminds me of actually you coming in remember back in the day probably more teenage years or early 20s when you'd get in you'd be that person rolling in and you'd see the milkman. I mean that is showing how old I am to be fair but you'd see the milkman and you'd get in and then you'd carry on your day as if you'd had eight hours sleep because you were that young and able to do it. I am not that young or able to do it anymore. Well you look fresh as a daisy to me as does Tim Stillman. How are you? Not too bad and I do like cheese of pretty much all shapes and sizes. Susie was literally just about to log off. Susie has left the

chat. Right listen before we start reviewing the last two quarterfinals, a couple of emails we've received at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com. If you want to send one in, please do. Thanks to Tamara who did. Dear Susie, as an English-born Australian living in Vienna, I'm very grateful to The Guardian for high-quality international reporting, especially the coverage of women's football. I've really enjoyed hearing the various iconic Swiss products assigned to each team competing in the Euros that you keep mentioning on the pod and although I subscribe to the Guardian I can't seem to pick up the list or the pullout anywhere online can you please help? Thanks Tamara. Tamara I have sent you the photos because there is no link to the pullout because it is exactly that.

It is a pullout but you can also go and look up all of the profiles of all the players online that is there as well and thank you for your lovely email. We've got another one as well. Hi team, just tuned into the podcast at the start of the Euros and want to thank you all for the great coverage and analysis. Currently listening after England's miraculous recovery against Sweden, I first watched the ladies game when the World Cup in Canada was broadcast here in Ireland and I was hooked immediately. My predictions have been on point so far all tournament

and it certainly has paid off opposing the club World Cup. But I believe France go all the way and lift their maiden title. As cheese comparisons go, they're a red Leicester, always found when needed most, reliable and consistently quality throughout. Keep up the good work, makes great listening in the truck week in week out, new long-term listener secured. Warm regards, Conor McGinty from North West Ireland. Conor, thank you for that brilliant email. That's it though your predictions you are now officially a Guardian Women's Football Weekly pod fan because your predictions are as terrible

as ours. France are out. The Red Leicesters gone moldy. They've disappeared because the quarterfinal stage concluded two fascinating encounters for very different reasons and listen you know we try to go chronologically sometimes on this during this tournament But we're not gonna today because the drama that was served up last night was well worth us discussing first and foremost Two heavyweights of the women's game in France and Germany They always deliver and I tell you what no different last night Christian Vuk's ten-player side knocking out Libler tell you what no different last night Christian Vuk's 10-player side knocking out Lib Le from the competition one hairball one red card two disallowed goals one normal time penalty scored one missed one truly world-class save and a

shootout for the ages it finished one all after 120 minutes Grace Gaiore's penalty was cancelled out by Schuka Nuschgen and Germany had been reduced to 10 on 13 minutes after VAR spotted Kathrin Hendrik pulling on Griezmann Bock's hair as she defended the ball in the box. A penalty shootout followed. Germany eventually won it 6-5 thanks in no small part to the heroics of Anne Kathrin Berger.

I don't even know where we start with this really, Susie, but what did you make of it as an overall and are you sick of penalties yet or do you love the drama? Oh it's great when you've got no skin in the game, then I love penalties and it was nice to see some actually good ones. But yeah, chaos, pure chaos, like brilliant to watch, brilliant fun. I think you know everyone sort of fought the second that Hendrik was sent off that you know it was going to be a little bit game over and I think there sort of fought the second that Hendrik was sent off, that it was going to be a little bit game over and I think there was a little bit of a sigh of disappointment that the fantastic encounter we were hoping to watch would now be a foregone conclusion.

But the Germany hold on was phenomenal. I mean obviously the red card was just mad. Yeah, coming off the back of of Worms' red card in the previous game, like just two moments of complete madness, like it just shouldn't be happening when you've got top athletes who, in theory, know the rules of the game and and, you know, that VAR is watching as well. Feels like a really weird thing. But yeah, absolute thrilling chaos. But you can never write off Germany, right? Like, you can just never write them off.

And I think there was a little bit of a, like... They weren't hard done by. It was a completely fair red card. But I feel like they felt like they were being hard done by, that this is, you know, their backs to the wall tournament. They've lost their captain to injury. They've had red cards in two matches, like I think it created a little bit of a siege mentality and then, you know, that really helped them get through that game. Who knows how they're going to do

against Spain. You would say that that would be a full-conclusion too, but all bets are off at the moment with this Germany team. Yeah, it feels like that, doesn't it? What was it like in the press box, Soph? Because Hendrik's red card did change the game, and I think we all just immediately thought it was gonna be France steam-roller-ing for the rest of the 80 minutes. Firstly, what was she thinking,

if you can try and get inside the player's mind, and how did it change everything that kind of came after? Yeah it was a bit actually a bit weird in the press spots because we don't have any screens so like there was a long pause before the BAR check was actually announced on the made the big screen in the stadium and no one had seen what had happened because we'd all been following the ball and this actually happened off the ball like they weren't anywhere near the ball had come into the box but Mbock and Hendrik weren't actually anywhere near getting the ball.

So we all had to like peer over someone's very small iPad as we watched replay to try and figure out what on earth was going on. And then, yeah, when we all saw the hair pull, we were like, what on earth? I mean, Hendrik is 33 years old. This is her fifth or sixth major tournament. She's not a naive, you know, youngster who's come into the squad for the first time and been taken away by the emotions of it all. It just really, really baffled me in terms of the decision making, especially like you don't do that anyway, but especially when VAR is in play, you just

don't do that at all. And it's really interesting, I think, going down to 10 because I think everyone assumes is the team that goes down to 10 that's at the disadvantage, and maybe more often than not it is. But sometimes something about it happening that early just rips up a game plan for both sides and suddenly not only are Germany having to completely reconsider what they were doing, and maybe it suited them, they went back to a four at the back and just really dug in and sat deep. But France then had to really deal with the kind of, not just the chasing down of the German team,

but kind of the mental side of it as well, knowing that they should be winning this game. And I think as soon as Nusken's header went in, you could sort of see all of their shoulders just drop, they're a little going, oh, God, it's happening again. So yeah, I think it's a very, very interesting example of what can happen when someone is sent off that early. A lot of the German press had talked about Germany's defensive issues leading into the game, Tim, but exactly as Soph said, as soon as they were down to 10, they just didn't stop. And Christian Wuch, their manager their manager said I can say for certain tonight was the best and hardest fought performance I've seen from the team since I've known

them. How impressed were you with them bearing in mind all the criticism that they'd had leading into it particularly because of that game against Sweden? Yeah definitely and obviously they got another right back injury in this game with Linda going off early. And there were rumours beforehand of whether it would be a back five as well. I think Soph makes a really good point there about sometimes it can really crystallise things for you going down to 10. And I think we'd seen Germany taken apart because they commit their full backs too high and they couldn't do that anymore and they really had to kind of just concentrate on digging in and defending, which probably helped them because they are defensively weak.

I think also though what really helped Germany was that the thing, and I think we saw this in the other quarterfinal with Switzerland, the thing when you're really bedding in and trying to defend that you need is an outlet and to get a break and to carry some threat in the other direction. And the fact that they kind of dropped Schuller for Hoffman, that really, really helped them, I think, in this game state, having a hold up player like that. But the threat that Julie Brandt and Clara Ball carry on the counter as well, really, really helped them. And actually, someone called Blair Newman, who's a very good women's football analyst, at the time of the

red card, he posted this on his Blue Sky account. To be fair of all the teams to handle the defender being sent off, Germany are probably the best. They can keep the back four, Hoffman a great relief valve while Brandon Ball remain as they were, real threats on the counter. I think that's exactly what happened in this game and I also think France are not suited to playing against a team like this because they really thrive on running into space. It does feel a little bit as if somebody's saying to Christian Wuch, no no no no no we just don't like the tactics of bombing the full backs up every single time so we're just gonna take them all out of the game, you've got

none of them left to play. Kind of fast-forwarding, Susie, to the shootout a little bit, which is doing a slight disservice, I think, to the rest of the game in many ways, but we'll get to how bitty it was in the end. But it was another topsy-turvy one, but all of the credit has to go to Anne Katrin Berger. We gave a little bit of criticism to Jennifer Falk of Sweden the other day for stepping up to take that fifth penalty but Berger stepped up for it and you just knew she was going to score it you know she was brilliant in the penalty shootout even though she didn't actually have that much to do. Brilliant preparation with the the water bottle you know it used to just be on the back of somebody's hand, now it's like

fully printed out and in colour wrapped around a water bottle. But she made nine saves before the penalties, particularly that incredible cat-like one that she scooped off of the line. How impressed were you with her performance? Yeah, incredible. She loves penalties, she's made no secret of it through the years. She absolutely adores penalty shootouts, you know, stepping up to take one and then, you know, literally walking straight into the goal to go up against one, like takes a huge amount of confidence. And I must have watched the sort of David Seaman-esque save about 300 times. In fact, I've got it playing on a loop in a separate window

because I just love it so much. And I really enjoyed a tweet that said, I'd say hang it in the loop, but French people might not might have something to say about that. I thought that was quite amusing. She's a remarkable goalkeeper with a remarkable amount of confidence, but also a remarkable human being, right? Like having gone through thyroid cancer twice to return to the pitch and then, you know, to kind of be still playing at the top, top level she is and a very worthy winner. Like, you know, if you were gonna say there was, you know,

someone more deserving on the pitch, you'd be hard pressed to find one. But yeah, I really enjoyed watching it in my little apartment and I really enjoyed the coverage, literally showing the water bottle with the different positions of the goal that various penalty takers go to and then like literally kind of saying, right, this penalty taker, she thinks goes top left and then goes top left and she saves it. Just that level of detail in the coverage was really, really satisfying as well and a really interesting way to look at it and to watch that shoot out,

which was really, really enjoyable. On the British coverage Sam Matterface, as Sombath steps up says oh on her water bottle it says top left and that's obviously where she tries to go but what really added to that as well is AKB usually has her hands behind her back until the run-up but for this penalty she put her hands out which was a clear indication to me and as Susie said I thought that really added to the coverage like okay she's got her hands up so she's preparing for a higher dive and yeah it was it was great kind of theatrics as well as great goalkeeping. Yeah I actually thought that was really impressive from ITV they'd clearly

that the cameraman had honed in on the bottle and then they just freeze framed it and and took all of the notes from it to give to Sam and Lucy Ward in the commentary box. And you're right, it absolutely added to it. It was, it was fantastic drama. And I have the hands behind the back. I always just love, I just think particularly, and I've avoided any Oasis kind of puns throughout this whole tournament, by the way, because I just won't go there. But it's so Liam Gallagher, isn't it? When she's standing there in the goal mouth? We really need to talk about France though, Soph.

In the last nine major tournaments, they've progressed past the quarterfinal stage just once. This was their 12th loss in 12 against Germany at a major tournament. And what do you think that is down to? Because we were all so convinced, weren't we, that actually this France side could go all the way. And we heard earlier on from Connor being convinced that that was his prediction. I'd actually said in the last pod that I thought it could be an England-France bookended final, which I'm now going back in my predictions hole and never coming out of again. But what is the problem with them? What do they need to do to break the curse?

To be honest, this is probably not the answer for a podcast, but at this point I have absolutely no idea because as Suzy wrote in her match report for the Spain-Switzerland game the other day, Spain-Spain, France definitely franced yesterday. They have this just ability to absolutely, I don't know, destroy their hopes. Are they francy? They're francy. On paper they have a team, a squad, and they always have done worthy of winning a tournament. You know, when you look at the quarterfinals throughout the years, you look at the players that they've had in their kind of roster,

and you go, these teams should be winning trophies. And it kind of reminds me, there was a Dutch team, I think, their men's Dutch team, so of the 1970s they were so so good and they were brilliant but they never won a single trophy and they on paper they should have just like walked every single tournament but they just for some reason the mental side of the game for them just wasn't there and they just could not find a way through and I think this quarterfinal hex as it were for France has got really like quite big at this point, you know, to only go through in one out of your last nine

quarterfinals is absolutely shows a real problem, I think, that when they get to the state of a major tournament, it probably does weigh you really deep on them, that, you know, this is actually a real problem for us and it has been a problem throughout history. And I think it's going to take something considerable to break that. In terms of what they can do, they've tried different managers, they've tried different players, they've tried being radical. They dropped Wendy Renard. I think there will be an inquest into that after the tournament, the way that was done

just a month before the start of the tournament, getting rid of Lesomé and Dalié and Renaud. Dalié has said that she would speak after France got knocked out of the tournament on what had happened. So I am kind of anticipating, highly anticipating what's going to come out of that. There's going to be some tea, I think. But yeah, it's just a problem that you can't really name, I think, because as I said, they've got the players, they look brilliant against England at times, but they just fall apart in these moments, in these knockout stages of tournaments. I suppose it doesn't really help that Lauren Bonadie had turned around and said, yeah, we've not practiced penalties because I don't want them to put that pressure on them. No,

why? That's just mad. What is it with managers? Like honestly, Peter Gohearson did the same. He didn't have a penalty session. I mean, the one thing you do when you get to knock out football is you practice your penalties because there is quite a high likelihood that you might get there. I just don't understand it. What's the phrase? Fail to prepare, prepare to fail, which I think sums up both Sweden and France who had been

fantastic in this tournament and fail at penalties. But you know, Germany and England, thank you. 50 fouls in the game, Tim, five yellow cards, that early red one as well. I have to say, you know, Sophie was there, the one thing that she says united the crowd was the disappointment with the referee. How much do you think that that impacted the game? Yeah, a little bit. It played into Germany's hands, definitely. And I think we're talking about Julie Brandt and some stats from her performance as well. She made six tackles, eight ball recoveries, but she won four fouls. And I think Germany were actually very good at doing that. They were very good at setting up that way, particularly with Hoffman up front.

So I think Germany were quite good. It was quite a fussy referee. And I think we saw that as well in the penalties as well, how fussy she was about the spotting up of the ball. And I think that played into Germany's hands a little bit. They were able to break the game up quite well and it's true there probably should have been a few more yellow cards but they were quite kind of bitty fouls. I was quite amused as well when Anne Katrin Berger went down in the last minute and those of us that watch women's football a lot will be very very familiar with the emergency goalkeeper timeout which Sam Matterface wasn't

that familiar with and he kind of said oh there's a problem for Anne Katrin Berger and Lucy Ward on CoCom's was very much like I don't think they're anything. I think she's okay. Yes. Right so Germany progress. Over to Bern on Friday night where a sea of red and white decked out stadium. Vanckdorf, the Swiss watching their side take on the world champions. And despite a courageous effort just wasn't to be for the hosts, it finished Spain to

Switzerland nil thanks to second half goals from Athenia del Castillo and Claudia Pina. You were at the stadium in Bern, Suzy, 25,000 fans marching from the city centre to support their team and they put in a real courageous performance. What did you make of the game? Well first off, I mean that atmosphere I will say afterwards and maybe I'm just being coloured by the fact that it's the most recent thing but I think that's the best stadium atmosphere I've ever been in.

It was absolutely electric. Beyond just support for the team, that was what got me, I wrote in the match report, there were signs like, this is just the beginning, and women's football's here to stay, and things like that. It just felt bigger than support for this Switzerland team. In a way, you go to Champions League finals and the Barcelona fans are there to cheer for Barcelona

and the Arsenal fans are there to cheer for Arsenal. You go to, you know, the Euro final and, you know, everyone's there to support England in 2022 and that kind of stuff. But this felt bigger. It felt like people going, you know, this is this is our moment. This is it. And like the fact that, you know, they stayed so long afterwards and all that kind of stuff was just brilliant. So that was like incredible. In terms of the game itself, I thought they matched that energy on the pitch, like as much as you can against the world champions. The fact that they held on so long

and, you know, had such a battling, like defensive performance was just brilliant to watch. And it was great because literally every sort of foul, tackle, even pass was getting like a huge cheer from the crowd. And the crowd being the 12th man can be like so overrated a phrase, but it really, really felt like that was having an impact in this game. I mean, obviously it was inevitable, like given Spain's quality, that they were going to find a way through at some point and that moment of magic from Bomati, the little like backwards back heel for the first goal to set up, Del Castillo was like obviously

sublime. It took that level, it took them elevating up a gear to break through that resilient Swiss back line. So yeah, really enjoyable game to watch because the Swiss put on a show for their fans. They knew that their expectations were low and they put on a show for their fans and the atmosphere was just incredible. Yeah, it really was. How crucial were Pia Sundhaga's tactical changes for Switzerland's performance, Soph? Yeah, absolutely crucial. She switched Iman Benita up front. Benita had been playing right wing back most of the tournament and she is naturally a striker but she's got the pace

to really stretch the back line and you can see that from minute one. And especially when you've got a back line of Paredes and Alexandre, who aren't typically the fastest defenders and do struggle when they have direct runners running at them. They look to exploit that with Schurternleib sitting in behind. I think the problem for Switzerland was always going to be how much they could keep the game playing up. They are inexperienced, they've got a young team full of running, but at the end of the day they haven't been in these situations before. when you are without the ball like you generally are against Spain it's incredibly, incredibly tiring on the legs. So she got the game plan I think

spot on tactically, she tried to switch it up, there were a few of those notes going around in the final 15 minutes, I think Lea Valti got two of them. I thought, by the way, I thought Lea Valti was superb as well. She led by example in that midfield. She's like walking wounded. She didn't came into this tournament, not at her fittest, I think, but she's managed to plow through. And I think the way that she dictated some of the midfield play when they did get the opportunity to break forward and also broke up some of the Spanish attacks led by example and she kind of epitomizes this Switzerland team. So I think, yeah, when they're looking at the game back, it won't be down to the game plan or anything or the kind of attribution of it. It will be down to the fact that they just didn't have the legs. And in the end,

and you know, Spain have those quality players who can undo you in a moment and when you're tired especially, those moments of equality really matter. Switzerland's youngsters gained a lot of attention this tournament but as Sophie said, Suzie, Lea Volte is the heart of the team really. Oh yeah and the fact that they sort of had her switching between midfield and defence, like sitting back between the two centre backs but then shifting forward into, sort of had her switching between midfield and defence, like sitting back between the two centre backs but then shifting forward into that sort of more familiar defensive midfield position. Getting forward as well, like she was just everywhere. I think it could be massively underestimated in a game like that where you have barely any of the ball,

how much running you have to do off the ball and how hard that is, is, you know, can be a little bit underestimated, but like, yeah, phenomenal. And as I said, like in and out of the Arsenal team at the, towards sort of the second half of the season, like niggly problems, but also just, you know, not necessarily always playing the best or preferred to you know some of the other players in that team but really pulled out the bag and it's really quite moving to see her so emotional at the end of each game like just looking at the crowds and soaking it all in because she's been such a like wonderful ambassador for the tournament. Her face is absolutely everywhere and she's really, really taken on really humbly and it's

been really, really nice. Yeah. We need to talk about Spain, Tim. We're used to them looking free flowing, simple, effortless, but they look really infuriated a lot of this game and probably the most frustrated and gosh that was a Dr. Evil kind of laugh, that was. They look very frustrated, probably the most so that we've seen them in this tournament. They had to show so much patience while you know obviously playing as they knew that they would be with a boisterous partisan crowd surrounding them but eventually the class kind of showed out and the magic came. It really did and obviously it's quite a unique thing to play the hosts in a knockout you probably even if Switzerland weren't the best team left in the tournament I think that

is significant playing the host team but I the tournament, I think that is significant playing the host team. But I think ultimately, I mean first of all obviously we had Mariana's penalty miss in the first half where she just kind of drags at it a bit and I think if that had gone in I think we'd have probably seen quite a different game. But really with Spain it's a little bit similar to England, like if it's just not going their way who and what they can bring off the bench. Obviously it's Athenia del Castillo who scores the goal from the bench. They can bring on Salma as well and it's not just the quality of those players, but those

players are very different. They provide a much more direct threat as well. So Spain actually have the tools to really switch things up as well, a bit like England do. And I think that's why Spain and England just look like the best teams in the tournament. They don't always look like in every phase of the game, the best teams, Spain are probably closest to that, but the players they can bring off the bench can really kind of demoralise you. And for Switzerland, I just think we're talking about Germany having those hold up players. I think Switzerland done really well this tournament.

I think they've really missed Ramona Backman just as that little bit of experience in the forward line. They've got some wonderful young players but they just didn't have an outlet and you did just feel that Spain were putting the squeeze on them. They are the Swiss Army Knives aren't they? I mean they're gold and Toblerone, Spain and England, but they're actually the Swiss Army Knives if we're using our mascot analogy that we've had on the pod during the tournament. Let's talk about the legacy for Switzerland though, though, Soph. I mean the country really got behind their team. 25,000 on that walk is incredible. How do they capitalise now

on this moment? It's all well and good. This three weeks has been wonderful and captured the nation, but now they need to build on it. How do they do that? It's going to be a tricky question to answer, but you kind of, when I was in the stadium on Friday, it was a really emotional occasion, I think, being there, very, very special. And the way that you can see the Swiss fans embrace the team,

there's a real bond now that's being forged between the players on the pitch and players, as we said before, who are generally quite young. So those players are going to be playing for the next five to ten years in a red and white shirt. So they've made those links with the fans right for the future. They've done their bit. It's now up to the Swiss FA to go away and do their bit and they need to make sure that they don't, that they're very, very well prepared that this isn't just a moment in time. They are not going to get this chance again. Switzerland, because they are the manner of a country that they are, they're small,

they are a developing nation in terms of women's football, they aren't going to get a major tournament, I don't think again, unless they combine with someone else because of where the women's game is going. So they really do have to use this moment. They have to have the infrastructure in place to allow young girls to play all over the country, to play football from a young age, to give them access to facilities and give them investment. And I really hope they are prepared. We've seen, I know it's a very, very different circumstance with England because England, the investment the FAA have put into women's football is like vastly incomparable. But I do think they proved that you can have a legacy

from hosting a major tournament in terms of what happened in England. And I really, really hope that the Swiss FA are alive to that fact that they need to really, and then in terms of like the fans and supporters, you know, when the Swiss team next play at home, make sure you put them in a place that's accessible, that is big, that you could get, you know, 30,000 people, put them in Basel, where there's, you know, there's a big stadia. You just need to make it keep onto those hooks that really brought people

into this tournament, because otherwise it's just going to be a wasted opportunity. It reminds me a little bit of Euro 2017 in Netherlands but something Netherlands did really well was started hosting open training sessions every time they played in the country and I'd love to see Switzerland even do something like that just to keep the kind of links between the fans and the team. Yeah, it'd be really important, won't it? We'll keep an eye on that for sure. That's it for part one. In part two, with the last four now decided, we're going to look ahead to the two semi-finals coming up this week. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So the quarterfinals complete, we have two massive semi-finals to look forward to this week. We're left with the gold, the

Toblerone, the railway clock and aluminium foil. It is not a game of Monopoly, a very interesting Swiss version of Monopoly. These are the mascots assigned to the last four. First up, let's look at the Lionesses who take on Italy in Geneva on Tuesday. Eight o'clock British summertime that game starts. The Dark Horses against the reigning European champions. How do you see this one going, Susie? Who knows? Does anyone have an answer this pot? No one can predict anything. Everything's out the window. I'm quite worried for England, to be honest.

In theory, on paper, they should beat Italy comfortably, but they've played 120 minutes in penalties and picked up a lot of knocks in the Sweden game. You know, like if Leah's not back, which as my Morgan said yesterday, she's hopeful, they're sort of hopeful and confident that she will be. I'm not sure how true that is. I don't think England are going to give anything away before that game on her fitness, to be honest. And, yeah, I fear for the extra day that Italy have had as well

to rest and recover. So whilst, you know, on paper, it should be a straightforward win for England. I'm just not confident of anything or anyone anymore. I've forgotten all rules of football and yeah, who knows? Well, the rules of football are that we get our predictions wrong. So you need to vote tactically when we get to our predictions. Italy will win. Well done.

Well, Tom Garry on the pod the other day thinks that they left so much out there in their quarterfinal Italy in the celebrations and everything that that was their race run. It felt like they were celebrating winning the final. At least they've had longer to adjust, but that could, you know, come into it. It's the best showing that they've had since 1997. But actually, the last time these two sides met, Soph, was in February 2024. So 18 months ago, it was a friendly and England won it 5-1 but it feels like very, very different times. How different are both these teams to them?

I mean I think they are very different in terms of both have gone on journeys. I think Italy's journey since the 2023 World Cup has been quite remarkable in terms of the way they've rebuilt and regenerated a side that was arguably looking like it was going a bit backwards after the positivity of 2019 and that. So I think it's, Andrea Swanson's done really well for me and he's really instilled a style of playing that really works with the kind of players that he has. And for England, I mean, my thing with England is that I am always very well aware that out of tournaments,

they are an up and down team and they always have been. They've never really performed consistently bar Serena Viefen's 33 game unbeaten streak, which is, I mean, should be unheard of these days, but is generally unheard of. England have been always been up and down. I've been into some pre-tournament friendlies that have been truly dire and then they go and reach the semi-finals and this is England's sixth semi-final on the trot. So I do think both teams, well I think it's not a new experience for England so that will help them and so they will build on that friendly performance I think and know

how they broke Italy down and use that as an experience in the further experience of being in a semi-final. Fortunately it's totally new and you do sometimes wonder whether the emotion of an occasion will get the better of them but there's no doubting there's two very different sides from that moment in February 2024. Italy have impressed at times in this tournament though Tim, where do you see their biggest threats and their weaknesses? Their biggest threat I think they were really good at exposing Norway out wide, they really saw that that was a weakness in Norway, that does make me worry from an England perspective,

particularly Cantore, if she plays on the right for Italy I think if anyone watching England at the moment you'd have to say defensively they look a lot weaker down their left side as well, so Cantore I think very very kind of direct player. I expect her to attack that space a lot. The other thing I think Italy might do as well, because they can be quite a direct team. I don't think anyone's challenged England in the air yet without Millie Bright, because it's not Leo Williamson's biggest strength. It's certainly not Jess Carter's biggest strength. I don't think anyone's really put that to the test yet and really put England under pressure aerially. So I do wonder if Italy will play Piemonte, who played for Everton up front, as just that big kind of target player, really kind of put herself about. And particularly with

Cantori on the right hand side putting crosses in. That's kind of how Italy scored both their goals against Norway as well. So I'd be aware of those wide areas and I'd be interested to see if Italy really just try and challenge England there by being quite direct. Well it did feel as if Sweden were trying to have the height advantage in that quarterfinal and that's why we saw Esme Morgan come on because you know it did make a difference having a little bit more height in the back line but it's going to be really fascinating Suzy to see what Serena Wiegman does because she's stuck with the same starting 11 for the last three matches and they were very poor for 60 minutes against Sweden before they mounted that

comeback. A lot of focus has been on Jess Carter, obviously exposed down the left-hand side in the France match in the opening game, switched into centre-back. We know what a brilliant player she is, but the pace perhaps against some of the younger players just isn't quite there. Do you see Serena Vigman making any changes tactically, either to personnel or to both both swapping players out or just changing formation again? I think she should but I don't think she will because once she's picked a starting 11 she very much sticks her through a tournament sort of regardless of what's going on. I thought

that Jess Carter would be dropped for the Sweden game, I thought she'd be dropped for the Netherlands game and she wasn't. And they've shifted her across the back line pretty much entirely through the tournament bar right back to try and make sure it works. In the middle of the Sweden game, her and Leah switched so that Leah could start pinging some of the diagonals out to Lucy Bronze on the right, which Jess Carter just doesn't.

That's not really her skill set. So yeah, personally I would, but I don't think she will. But I think we might see some enforce changes maybe if Leah's not back then that's a huge, huge, huge, huge problem. LJ was limping at the end, you know, could we see her perhaps drop down to the bench and maybe like Chloe Kelly start or someone like that or Beth Meade and then and then she maybe comes on in the game. I think if there are going to be any changes it will be purely from a fitness and availability point of view over like any like sort of tactical changes

because she sticks. A back three would make sense as well, you know, to help deal with that threat. Yeah, when they switched it, it worked and yes, she does need to twist I feel sometimes, Serena, but you know, she knows the team better than anybody. And then again, I was clamouring for changes to come earlier in that Sweden game, going what the hell are they doing? Why have they waited? Like usually should they make changes at 60 minutes they made the first change at 70 minutes but England were playing terribly like but what do I know they go on to win that match so you know like and listen all

all the plaudits for the resilience that they showed I mean it would be a fantastic final of Germany England just in terms of resilience and backs against the wall kind of tournament however would we be having this conversation and of course this is football, this is, you know, it's happened so I'm making this up but if Sweden hadn't been so terrible at penalties we'd be having a very, very different conversation, wouldn't we? Because I think all of us agree that England didn't necessarily deserve to go through. I mean, obviously they did deserve to go through because they went through but on the performance, it wasn't very good.

Sweden bottled it about 50 times in one game. Exactly. I mean, it's like, no, no, no, we don't want it. You have it. No, go on, you go. It was just like nobody wanted it, it felt. But ultimately England got it and that is the mark of champions and why you know they're looking to go and defend their title and get to the final yet again. By the way I was about to mention that I thought Kiera Walsh potentially she looked like she was getting treatment towards the end as well. Of course Alex Greenwood had that nasty fall, we saw her then step up to take her penalty, did that affect her? The strapping that Lucy Bronz had? I mean they are the walking wounded it feels. We use the word bruising encounter on

multiple occasions when we did the pod a couple of days ago. But I want to ask you about Cristiana Giarelli, Sophie, because I know you're a massive fan of hers and I can see the smile on your face the minute I say her name. The Italian captain is going to make her 123rd appearance on Tuesday. I mean, she just is a leader, isn't she? Yeah, she is. She epitomises this Italian team and this is why I may be disagree a little bit with Tim because I don't think they're benching Cristiana Giarelli for this game. I don't think they'll be worn on Andrea Sonsen's hands if that happens. She is going to be playing that semi-final and you could just see it in her face after the court final. The emotion that it meant, it should provide a real intelligence I think to this team that while they have

individual players maybe isn't cohesive throughout the setup where they have weaknesses, but I think the fact that a lot of them played together, I think the fact that Barbara Bonazio and her have been on this journey together for 12 years, they've literally lived in each other's pockets in the national team and now Juventus. And the same with Sofia Cantoria, I know she's just moved to America, but she's been at Juventus. Those relationships are built up at club level and they then replicate themselves on the national stage and I think that's why they are being successful at the moment. Durelli has an instinctive eye for goal. Her movement is so clever. The way that she just

lost – I know girl writing isn't a natural left back – but the way that she just lost her for that winner, that just little movement away from her, just shows exactly what a kind of striker she is and then she can go with the spectacular as well as we saw against Portugal. So she's got it all. I think she will be very up for this. She's had a long career with this national team. She's 35. It isn't given that she's going to make another major tournament at this stage. So if this is going to be her final hurrah, as it were, I mean, she's already achieved so much by getting to the semifinals, but I think she will be absolutely pumped up to get them one step further and go to a final. But I think, you know, I am such a big

fan of hers. I think she's such a natural striker. And while on Tuesday, I won't be her biggest fan, that's for sure. I think we can all appreciate what she's done for this sport and what she's done for Italian sport as well because, you know, we're in a press box in the game in Geneva for the quarter-final. There's barely any Italian press there by the ball-crossers. There's so much to do in Italy and what this team have achieved on this stage at this point hopefully is going to start that change because they are so far behind in terms of the support and infrastructure of the nation behind them. So I think it's going to be a real, really impactful moment. I'm wondering what the fan base will be like actually, bearing in mind, you know,

we're in Switzerland and the crowd inside the Stade de Geneve is going to be heavily Italian, you would hope, Tim. Could that potentially play a part? Yeah, it could very well, particularly if Italy do kind of bunker in a little bit like we saw Switzerland do. I'm not sure they'll go to that extent. They'll probably will have like a little bit of home advantage there. And obviously this is just such a massive game for them as well. And on the point of Girelli and Bonanzaia as well, I don't want to say feel sorry for them, but Italy just haven't been cohesive for so many years and now they are, and they feel like they're more than the sum of their parts. But perhaps at a point where Giarelli and Bonanzaia are exiting their prime years, I almost feel sorry that this didn't

happen sooner when they were much more towards their prime. But they can definitely give England problems. We know that. But again, with England, I just think the amount of depth they have on the bench and even being able to bring on someone like Michel Ajamang, you know, and that's part of that's part of what makes England's mentality. I think I don't think it's just mentality. It's being able to bring on massive players with 20 minutes to go. Yeah. It's going to be a fascinating game, Tuesday night for that one. And Germany, Spain is going to follow in Zurich the following day as the two top FIFA ranked European teams come face to face. Spain probably have been licking their lips watching Germany's quarter final go to extra time. Susie, they're're gonna feel it's there for the taking for them.

Oh yeah, both Italy and Spain will be very very delighted that the other teams played a day later than them and you know played 120 minutes plus penalties. I mean in theory foregone conclusion but who knows I'm fully expecting a Germany red card of some kind of escalating nature as well. Like we've had handball, we've had a hair pull, I think it's got to be a leg breaker or punch in the face is like the next step. I hope not! And then anything is possible. But I think Germany have a lot to take from that quarterfinal against France in this respect in that you know they, when they were down to ten players, you know and basically had to relinquish a lot to take from that quarterfinal against France in this respect in that, you know, they, when they were down to 10 players, you know, and basically had to relinquish a lot of control of the ball and, you know, play on the counter, that's the type of game

you need to play against Spain. So you need to have perfect defensive performance, but, you know, you can score against them and catch them on the break. So I think there's, there's lessons to be taken from that France game that actually could really aid them in their task against Spain. So, you know, I'm not, I mean, you know, obviously they've got suspensions and things and injuries, but I just I'm not betting against them anymore at any point. Well, Christian Voet's got some massive decisions to make. I mean his squad is absolutely decimated so Katrin Hendrik and Schukka Nuschen unavailable through suspension so Eilinda his left back turn right back was forced off in

the first half. Her replacement Sophia Kleinholm pulled up at the end of the match. What does he do against a team like Spain who tend to control the ball and the tempo. So is it all about playing on the on the counter? Yeah I think it would have been great practice what they did against France because it isn't in Brooks nature to set up a team like that and the fact that they did and managed to kind of rely on that kind of defensive solidity for so long will serve them well. I do want to go on a little rant

here. I don't understand how, I understand it's a short tournament, but I don't understand how getting an accumulation of yellow cards gets you the same suspension as getting a red card. It just boggles my mind. I really, really feel for Nysken. She had a really, really brilliant game apart from the penalty miss and that yellow card. And she put everything into it. She scored the equaliser. She was everywhere. She was running her socks off. And then that yellow card destroys her appearance in the semi-final and could be her last appearance in the tournament. And then you have someone like either Karl Otto Vamse or, you know, Hendrik,

who gets straight red cards and they get the same punishment because it's just a one-game suspension. It just boggles my mind. So I just thought I'd mention that. No, I think that is a justified rant. But Christian Wirtke has problems on his hands that's for sure. You know, with the injuries, Bamser is back. So that's a positive I guess at right back. You have a bit more cover and I thought Francesca Kett really performed admirably.

She's 20 years old. She had like seven Bundesliga appearances this season so she's really inexperienced. A phenomenal talent, but pretty inexperienced. And she came in against France and performed admirably, especially when the game plan changed so quickly. You know, she started with a wingback and then she had to push forward. So she had to adapt in that game a little bit. So I think it will, yeah, I think she will come, she will probably stay at the left back if Linda is not fit. I think Linda's foot had more taping on it than I've ever seen in my entire life watching football.

So that didn't look particularly positive. But I think that game against France will give her the world of confidence if she is to come in against Spain and start again. But yeah, he has definitely got a depth problem, I think. He's going to have to rely on some of his older players. You know, Dalmen only came on for the penalty shootout. The Brits came on for the penalty shootout, missed a penalty, which is slightly awkward.

But they're two experienced players that he can call in if he really needs to kind of cover that lack of depth at the moment. I need to express some pure anger as well at the lack of 26-player squads for this tournament. Like, they increased it from 23 to 26 for the men's. Look at England's game against Sweden the other night, 17 players were involved in that. When we look at the state of Germany's squad at the moment, their

lack of right back cover now, all of those various issues. Why? Why is it different? It makes the tournament worse, it makes watching it worse because you're not getting the level of quality you would necessarily want on the pitch in each game. You're impacting player welfare because players are having to play when they're not necessarily 100%. And we know why, right? We know it's most likely about the cost of maybe the extra accommodation and the extra travel for players and the You know all those various Things that extra money that goes to clubs afterwards for their players having compete in the tournament like the budget for the women's euros is

Smaller, but I'm not being funny put player welfare first like they increased it to 26 for the men for a reason and they've not done It for the women So this is a very, very rare occurrence for me. I will slightly defend you, Afe, only in terms of there are more teams in the men's game. They have a last 16, they play another game. Listen, I agree with you, but for balance, I think it's important to say that

it might not just all be down to cost. That might be part of it Additionally, so I would agree with Susie. I think it's a financial decision about trying to host a tournament and Keep the budget budget as tight as they possibly can and what you ever have asked of these players, you know over the last Years, you know, this is the last of a back-to-back major tournament of five years since the pandemic or something. These players are non-stop, you know, they had the Olympics last year, the World Cup the year before, the Euros the year before that. It's been an absolute bonkers schedule for a group of players who, by and large, have just turned professional full-time in the last six, seven years.

And their bodies are still starting to come back up to the big full time and living that kind of elite professional life and you're asking you've suddenly put all of this game time and pressure on top of there. So I think there are big questions to be asked of UEFA around player welfare for sure and certainly they could easily ease it by just adding three more players to a playing squad. It's really not that hard. Yeah, well, balance is important and we don't know for a fact that that is their decision making. Just as an aside, by the way, we didn't even mention the fact when we were going through the Germany-France game that Shuka Nishkan not only missed a penalty, she then stepped

up to take a penalty in the shootout and scored it. I mean that is impressive behaviour. And there's going to be lots of areas this game could be won and lost, Tim. What do you think we need to be looking out for in this game? I think Germany have got the tools to hurt Spain, actually. I think Susie and Sophie both said that probably the France game was good practice for them and they are going to have to bunker in and they're not going to have to kind of bomb their full backs on. But I just think that kind of Hoffman-Brant ball front three, particularly with how high Spain have their defensive line, I really can see in my mind's eye a kind of Clara ball through ball for Jula Brant to run. And I do think Spain lead those gaps.

We perhaps didn't see it against Switzerland, but we did see them vulnerable in the group stage to counter attacks because of how much they kind of, they pincer you and push forward. So I wouldn't say I fancy Germany. I do fancy Spain to win this, but I think Germany will make it really hard for them. And unlike Switzerland,

they're going to have that threat going in the other direction. So I think this will be it really hard for them and unlike Switzerland they're going to have that threat going in the other direction. So I think this will be quite a tight game actually. Yeah, I agree with you completely. So Spain are looking for their first European trophy, whereas Germany are obviously season winners of the tournament. They've won eight European Championship titles. First time as well for Spain, similar to Italy, Susie, that they've reached the semi-finals since 1997. Is that going to come into things at all?

No, like for me, I think too much has been made of this. You know, it's been said a lot, oh, it's their first semi-final since 97, you know, oh, it's a really hard task for them, blah, blah, blah. It's such a different team and the development of women's football in Spain and the women's national team has been rapid and so it's not like if they're they're new kids on the block but they are very very very good nucleus kids on the block to a certain extent like you know if they were the team they are now like last time out they were unlucky not to get past England the time before that they weren't they weren't a big

International net team that's the reality. So it's not like it's been a you know, they've just been really rubbish for years They've they've not been at that level like they've just not like developmentally have not been at that level So I don't think it's gonna be a big factor, you know the world champions because they've like, you know Everything is coming together for them The talent pool has reached that point of development. The quality of players at Barcelona in particular are producing is delivering for the national team. Like, so it's been said a lot and, you know, it's the one they're missing, but they've not really been in it until fairly recently.

So I think that the that it's not like it's not like a millstone around their neck in the same way it could be for, say, a France who have sort of perennially underachieved. Spain haven't. They've achieved relative to where they were sort of at until they suddenly exploded onto the scene. So yeah, I don't think it will be hugely detrimental to them at all. It's just one of those weird quirks of sort of like the uneven development of women's football and, yeah, Spain are, you know, same in terms of like, say, the Women's Champions League in Barcelona. Like, they're relatively new kids on the block, but they're very, very, very good now and

that's the difference. Okay, so it comes to predictions. Who's nailing their colours to the mast? Who are the two finalists? Tim? I'm gonna say Spain versus England which is to be fair what I and I think a lot of people probably thought at the outset of the tournament. I think they'll both be relatively close semi-finals. I don't think there are any guarantees but I'll say Spain, England final. Definitely. So. Spain, England.

Suzy. How tactical do I be? OK, Italy, Germany. Italy, Germany. OK, OK. Do you want it to be England, Spain? No, I want it to be England, Germanyain? No, I want it to be England-Germany but it would probably be England-Spain but I actually do think Italy could cause an upset. I really do like England are tired and I agree with Tim, I think the squad depth is significant for England and will probably make the difference in that game but England have been really

lucky and I think that luck could run out at some point before the final which would be this next game. Fascinating, fascinating. Right, the Women's Afrikaans Nations is also into the semi-final stage. Hosts Morocco booked their place with a comfortable 3-1 victory over Mali in Rabat with striker Iptasam Jiradi scoring twice meaning they reached their second consecutive Wafkon semi-final and will face Ghana who knocked out Algeria on penalties. The game itself finished goalless after extra time but Cynthia Conlon was the hero for the Black Queens, saving two penalties. And defending champions South Africa survived a scare against

Senegal who had booked their place in the quarterfinals as one of the two best third place teams. They took the Banyana Banyana all the way to penalties after another goalless draw after extra time but they won the shootout 4-1 and will face 11 time champions Nigeria who had a more comfortable 5-0 demolition of Zambia. Both those semi-finals take place on Tuesday so Nigeria against South Africa and Morocco against Ghana. Some domestic news to wrap up for you as well. Newly promoted WSL side London City Lionesses have signed goalkeeper Sophia Poor on a permanent transfer from Aston Villa. The 19-year-old spent the second half of last season, you'll remember, on loan, helping them to promotion. Liverpool have

completed the signing of Scotland midfielder Sam Kerr on a reported two year deal. She made 14 appearances for the Reds last season on loan from Bayern Munich and WSL2 side Newcastle United have signed Aoife Manean on a permanent deal. The Republic of Ireland defender was a free agent after leaving Manchester United in June. Right, hopefully you lot have got a little bit of extra rest as we head into the semi-finals two days before Italy and England kick off. Sophie, look after yourself, please. Thank you. I will do. I'm going to go and just chill out. Good idea. Tim Stillman, enjoy your Sunday. My pleasure as always. Thanks for having me.

Susie, find a different something to eat rather than cheese. What else can you have? Pretzels. I've eaten a lot of pretzels. Excellent. Okay, pretzel chat on Wednesday. Fingers crossed for the Lionesses. We'll be back on Wednesday to review that semi-final against Italy. Keep having a say. Send in your questions via social media or email us at women'sfootballweeklyattheguardian.com. And as ever, a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goal posts sign up. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray.

Music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Sal Ahmad.