The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Bunny Shaw abuse fallout, League Cup and FA Cup drama – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Sophie Downey, and Sanny Rudravajhala to discuss Bunny Shaw, Chelsea and City’s League Cup final showdown, and a dramatic FA Cup weekend

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Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faker Rothers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Bunny Shaw returns to action after a week where women's football is forced to focus on player abuse. We'll discuss the fallout and reaction as well as the situation in Spain. Plus anyone for Chelsea vs Manchester City? Again? Haven't seen that fixture for a while. We'll review the FA Cup, League Cup and NWSL, look at the Champions League draw and bring you news of the Lionesses squad announcement for the upcoming Nations League. So much to get through plus we'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Suzy Rack, hello, how are you? You've just got off the rower. I know, new year, new me. I like it. Angry rowing this week, perhaps? Just a bit. Soph Downey, how are you? Lakers hat today, I like it. Yes, repping the Lakers today. Yeah, I'm all good on the way to Wembley for the England squad announcement. Excellent stuff. And we have a debut today.

Sanne Rudravaggila. Hello. How are you? Yeah, I'm all right. Thank you. Yeah, all good. There's two separate sets of roadworks going on outside. I try to sound my proof myself as best I can. So it looks like a middle of the night here. I can see the curtain. Yeah, the curtains are staying closed. What's behind the curtain?

Listen, we have to start this week's episode with a discussion about a really serious situation that happened after the Barclays WSL game between Manchester City and Arsenal just over a week ago when Bunny Shaw was subjected to racist and misogynistic abuse. Let me give you a timeline of exactly what happened and the statements that were released before we discuss it. Manchester City published a statement last Tuesday saying Manchester City were appalled to learn that Khadija Bunny Shaw was subjected to racist and misogynistic abuse following Sunday's fixture. Discrimination of any kind, either in stadiums or online, will not be tolerated and has absolutely no place inside or outside the game. Bunny has decided not to share the

messages publicly so as not to give the oxygen of publicity to the vile individuals who sent them. The content has been shared with the authorities. An investigation will follow and the club offers our full support to Bunny following the disgusting treatment that she's received. This was followed then by a statement from the WPLL which said, either in person or online and there's no place for it within women's football or wider society. We're speaking to both clubs and offering any support they might need. Then on Thursday it was revealed ahead of kick-off that Bunny Shaw hadn't traveled to Meadow Park for City's Subway Women's League Cup semi-final to protect her mental well-being. Gareth Taylor was then asked on Sky Sports how she was. This is what he had to say. It's hard to say. We left yesterday and weren't able to bring her

with us on the journey. It's really difficult for me to analyse. Who knows what goes on in that world. When you're affected by things like that it's really really difficult. I've not had time to have a good conversation with her about it but she knows and needs to know that the whole club are behind her in this. Lots to unpack there, Suzie and first and foremost a really horrible and awful situation for Bunny herself. Absolutely should not be happening. Don't even need to say that really. What was your reaction to it all and how can we go ahead and support and protect players better?

Yeah, I mean, it's appalling but also not surprising in a way. I mean, I think Ian Wright did a really strong post on social media where he sort of said he's sick of talking about it and, you know, that it's a repetitive problem. We shouldn't have to be constantly explaining that this is wrong, that, you know, whatever he is, 61 or something, he's seen, you know, waves of players kind of dealing with racist abuse over the years, you know, across each generation in the men's game. And now you're seeing it come into the women's game too. And I think that's a natural thing that's happened because as women's football grows, you've got a bigger section of the population interested in it. And football is a reflection of society. It mirrors the views of society

and embodies everything that takes place in society within it. So as long as racism exists more generally, it's going to exist within football. Unfortunately now, as the demographics of the support base around women's football and the interest grows, that's going to shift too, which is really, really appalling in terms of how we protect players. I think there's loads more that the FA and clubs could be doing to clamp down on incidents of racism, obviously, it's being taken, hopefully very seriously in this case, but that needs to be really widespread. I think, do we have to start having a conversation about players having people running their social media for them and removing them from that direct contact with fans that they have

that has been such a USP of the women's game and such a nice aspect of it for such a long time? But are we reaching a point where there needs to be that level of protection, where there needs to be some kind of separation there? I don't know. I wouldn't like to see it and I don't think the players would either. But at the same time, there's gotta be something done to really kind of insulate them from this.

But like the best way to do that is to work, to eradicate it generally from society. And that involves a complete political shift in every way, in attitudes towards immigration, in attitudes towards poverty, in attitudes towards poverty, in attitudes towards race generally in society. All of those things need to shift for us to see a shift in football. I feel like given the power that football has, given the power that the FA and clubs

have to influence the sports and feelings of the sporting fan base, there's a real potential there for them to have like a positive impact on society that then reflects back within football. But like that involves a lot of people coming together and having that conversation in a really kind of genuine and serious way. And I don't know if that is ever going to happen beyond sort of, you know, smaller think tanks proposing small changes. Yeah, that's a really good point. So, I mean, we saw swift responses from both Manchester City and the league, but what did you make of the statement from the WPLL? Did it hit the right note for you? No, I think it would be my ultimate answer. I think it was good that they responded and

we have waited I think longer in the past for responses. But at the same time, putting the two together, the Millie Bright incident and the Bunny Shaw incident, they're very, very different on the spectrum. Sorry to interrupt you. Can you just explain for any listeners who missed what happened with Millie Bright, what happened there? So earlier in the week Millie Bright issued a statement on social media basically saying that at the game against Villa when she was signing autographs for fans and taking pictures she had been abused by people in the stands. I don't know if I can say it on the podcast

but she basically said... Effing shite you can say, effing shite. Yeah, effing shite. We can do that with a warning. It's absolutely terrible but I don't think putting them into the same statement really could hit the right tone or the right mark for the WPLL. Racist abuse is such an important issue for us to be fighting against, for us to make statements about and to be battling and to be protecting the players and I do think in that instance they needed to be

separated because lumping them all together just kind of hit a bit of a wrong tone in my opinion. Yeah, what did you make of it all, Sunny? I mean you were at the press conference Gareth Taylor held, he also spoke to Sky Sports on the night of that League Cup semi-final against Arsenal. But you went the following day, didn't you, to his press conference ahead of their FA Cup fixture. What did he say and what did you make of his remarks?

Yeah, well, it's interesting this because if you read the quotes, it sounds like Gareth Taylor was very kind of clear, you know, horrendous situation etc. But what you, you know, you said the quote from him from that post match and that, you know, the hint was there already, right? So I go there and I'm told by City, you know, by the way, Gareth Taylor's got a line, he'll say we've got an investigation ongoing, isn't we want to talk about it? And I'm like, well, that's about it and I'm like well that's fine but I'm still going to ask the question because you know we're not there to to just be your PR and it doesn't matter what football club you are and when I asked him I

mean I don't all right all right so the one bit I would say is like Gareth Taylor clearly is maybe it's uncomfortable ground for him. The fact that the only ethnic minority in the entire room, as far as journalists are concerned, was asking the question might have made it even more uncomfortable for him. But when you're asked, you know, directly, you know, have you spoken to her since? And, you know, this isn't a situation any professional footballer should be in. Any basis like, well, what do you want me to say? We've got a statement out. It's just not particularly strong. Now as it happened Simon Stone from the BBC was also there so between us we were able to press a bit more on this because eventually got quite

techy, I think would be the word I would use with me, which again, and also, you know, Man City women's press conference were the same just after the Man City men's press conference so I was able to ask Pep Guardiola the same thing. And you know what it's like when these press conferences, you can ask a question that's essentially a statement and it gives space then for the responder to say whatever they want to say. So Pep Guardiola says a big thing about, you know, societal stuff and kind of alluding

to what Susie just said as well. And Gareth Taylor's like, well, there's a statement out and, you know, I don't know what more you want me to say on this. And Simon was like, well, you know, you're there. You can show us a bit of humanity, essentially. And he didn't want to do that. We've seen the situation, you know, explode everywhere from the Chloe Kelly area. And you can't really conflate the two things.

But just, I think you've got to remember, why was Emma Hayes such a great manager? Amongst everything else, her emotional intelligence was just great, right, and she just got it and she talked to the media and the players in a way that kind of everyone understood. It just feels like that element's kind of missing here. So yeah, I think perhaps maybe the club wanted to keep a line and it was interesting how Taylor then completely perked up and kind of almost, you know, talked completely differently when he's then asked about the actual match and the game and the team and, you know, talks more on his manager-y sort of, you know, conversational sort of style. But on this actual big issue, when you've got so many people, you know, watching, watching this, you know, when Bunny

Shaw, the best player in the league, can't bring herself to play in a match because of what she's suffered and what she's been sent. You've got an opportunity there to really show that you care, and just saying, oh, we've got people around, I just don't think it's good enough. Yeah, and I think if you feel uncomfortable in that realm, if you're Gareth Taylor as a sort of middle-aged white man and you feel uncomfortable talking about the issue, go and learn about it. Go and speak to people, go and have those discussions, go and have a chat with kick it out about, you know, some of, some of the structural issues within, within the game, the problem, like you can't use ignorance as an excuse.

That's the big thing for me. It's like, you know, you've got a real responsibility as a spokesperson for such a influential club to sort of be on the right side of history and pushing the right messages and using the influence you wield as a football manager, which as we've said already, it's a hugely influential sport for good, right? You've got a responsibility for that. So it's not good enough to hide behind a statement that essentially lets you off the hook from having an opinion and from being educated on different areas that you may not necessarily

initially relate to directly. Leadership comes, and strong leadership comes, in many different forms. This was an opportunity, I think, for him to be a strong leader to also say that he's not spoken to the player I find really strange but I'd like to be balanced on it and just put another before we all bash in on on Gareth Taylor there is the argument that managers and coaches are there to be managers and coaches and just to you know coach their players and that's what to be managers and coaches and just to, you know, coach their players and that's what their job is and they don't want to get involved

in wider politics. I think obviously since Gareth Southgate in particular, Serena Vigman always speaks really well, we know as Sanni said about Emma Hayes, some people are more comfortable speaking about those kind of situations and others are not. And if he isn't and he actually is trying to protect the player by not being clumsy in his language, A, I would say speak to your comms team because that's what they're there for and prepare it together and practice and think about what you want to say and how you can say it. There's definitely ways of doing that if you're not comfortable. You just have to put in the

effort. But yeah, sorry Susie, gone. Yeah, I think, you know, the thing is, is that Gareth Taylor isn't alone in sort of being, you know, kind of responsible for, you know, not speaking up on key issues, right? Like there's plenty of people within football generally, men's and women's, who have that view, right? Like there's plenty of people within football generally, men's and women's, who have that view, right? Like they're managers, that's their job, that's what they're there to do, but that's not good enough. And that's not necessarily to kind of hammer him, it's to hammer football generally for allowing that to be a narrative because ultimately,

be a narrative because ultimately, like, football does not exist in a bubble, right? Like, and all of these, like, horrors of general society exist within football. So you've got to, as a leader within the game, be able to speak to those issues and to attempt to understand them and to try and see how the game can be used and your position can be used for good because what is football for? Like, you know, yeah, it's a game, right? Like, and, you know, we all enjoy watching it, but like, what's the point if you're not going to try and do something better with it and try and, you know, the aim is to make people happy and like racist abuse and sexist abuse or whatever it may be is not making people

happy. Right. So like if we're boiling football down to what is it for? What is the purpose? Right. You have a responsibility to like at the very, very, very, very least, like make sure that it is delivering on that and you're not because it's not. So he's also the longest serving manager in the WSL. So it's not like he's, it's not like he's new to the, to the role. Well, exactly. Right. Like he's been here a long time. He's hugely experienced like in the role and it's not like these issues haven't come up before, but yeah, like I say, it's not a Gareth Taylor problem. It's a football problem.

And until football confronts the fact that it has this like sort of wider responsibility and reflects society but is also hugely able to influence society then we're sort of you know this is going to keep happening and we're going to have Ian Wright and others feeling more and more like distressed at the fact that it keeps happening and they keep having to have the same conversations and they keep getting called on to the same you know, TV shows, podcasts, whatever, to like talk about an issue that, you know, impacts them so deeply, but nothing really changes about like, like if that's not good enough, right? I'm sure he's come away and learnt from the situation and I went away and reflected as

well. And I'm sure I'd like to think if Gareth Taylor's in that situation again we might see a different response perhaps. Yeah perhaps. The good news is Bunny Shaw is back playing football after her short break and actually scored in the FA Cup. We'll discuss that shortly actually because the Adobe Women's FA Cup returned this weekend. 16 remaining sides battled for a place in the quarterfinal. Here's a full rundown of all the results in case you missed them. Aston Villa beat Brighton by three goals to two, Manchester United hammered Wolves 6-0. Liverpool beat Rugby Borough by two goals to nil. Palace with two nil winners over Newcastle United. Arsenal beat London City Lyonesses by two goals to nil.

Manchester City beat Leicester 3-1, Portsmouth were beaten 2-0 by Sunderland and Chelsea beat Everton by 4 goals to 1. No real upset Suzie again in this round but there's not to say that there weren't some fun performances if you like. Anything that stood out in particular for you? Yeah obviously rugby borough Liverpool, they gave it a really good go, really pushed them to the end, could have scored and taken the lead potentially at one stage as well. So that was interesting. I was at London Arsenal London City Lionesses and I mean, obviously it's a really interesting project that's going on at London City. Like

they're trying to basically build a club backwards, like build the structure and facilities and the team and success before they really have a fan base, which who knows if that's going to work or not, but the result of that is that they do have quite a competitive squad and they like, it was not easy for Arsenal and like it was quite interesting to see just how much that team is developing and what they could look like should they be the side that wins promotion. They're obviously in a good position at the moment. I think them and Birmingham in particular are probably the two favorites for that one promotion spot. But if they were to come up next season, I think we're increasingly seeing as we've seen with Palace this season that it's not going to be particularly easy or a foregone

conclusion that they go straight back down again. So for me, London City Lions' performance was hugely impressive. Rugby, Borough, yeah, there was a few. I mean, obviously Everton going up against Chelsea was a bit of a surprise too. There were quite a lot of teams made to wait for late goals to get through. It was a little bit tighter than usual, which I enjoyed. That's good. Especially bearing in mind these comments. Let's pick up on that rugby borough Liverpool match, shall we, Soph? It was a massive occasion for Lee Burch's side.

They were at home as well, strong crowd. BBC were in town. A classic FA Cup tie. Their owner Lewis Taylor though posted this on social media after the match. Two key learnings for the FA after this weekend's Adobe Women's FA Cup. One, give us a bigger platform or more opportunity and we'll rise to it. Take away. B-team integration will do the opposite. Two, there's great quality in tier 3. Take away. Expand the top two tiers and eventually a single tier 3. Let's give the players, fans and clubs what they want. What do you make of his comments?

I broadly agree with all of them. The end. Done. Now I think we've talked about the B-team conversation here in previous weeks when Tom was on and he wrote a really good piece in The Guardian on the Gold Post newsletter about it and about the response to it. I do think there is some real concern, especially amongst the tier three and tier four clubs about what that does to the pyramid in general. I know that the WSL clubs or maybe the bigger clubs, Premier League clubs, who are thinking about their academy system and how to develop

their younger players think it's a really good idea because at the moment the academy systems aren't really working or they haven't been given time to work. That's one thing I would say as well. We keep changing everything all the time in terms of the development pathway and we never let things settle. And now we've got another change potentially coming in the next next season or whatever it is and we just never let things kind of settle to figure out whether

it's actually working or not, we just come up with a new idea. They want instant responses, so there's the point that yes the WSL sides would probably like B-teams because it gives them a way of developing their players. But for tier three, tier four sides who are pushing to invest in the sport, when you look at the likes of Nottingham Forest, Stoke City, you know, all of those clubs that are looking to invest in the sport, they need somewhere to go. They need ambition, they need incentives. And if you're going to, I guess, flood the zone with B teams from Chelsea and Arsenal, then you're giving them less incentive or less opportunity, I

guess, in terms of that promotion, relegation structure. And then I would also say that expansion of the leagues, I've always banged on this about this for the last few years, we need bigger leagues, we need a bigger top division, I think we should go to 14 or 16 teams and the same with the championship and eventually the same lower down because we all need more football. I know the international players play an awful lot of football but that's really just a handful of clubs, it's four clubs really at the top of the WSL that really had that kind of impact. The rest of them, the West Ham's, the Palaces, the South Hamptons or the London cities of the world play very little football in a year, especially if they get

knocked out of competitions early on. So we need to really address that kind of imbalance because it's as bad as playing too much football, playing too little football. Manchester City capped off a good few days on the pitch, victory at home to Leicester City, Sanni. Bunnings Shaw, as we said, returned as a substitute to score. You were there. A city slowly getting back to their best again, do you feel? Well, the caveat to that is Leicester made seven changes. So it was Leicester reserves-ish against a virtually full-strength city side. They only made two swaps from the win at Arsenal. And actually Gareth Taylor's kind of, he's quite loathe to rotate really. He says he's got quite a thin squad

and he kind of keeps him at it and it just meant that City were able to just go through the gears, they kept moving out wide. Jess Park was linking really well with Alba Fugino that before the first goal came they'd done the same move of crossing it in from the right two other times before that and Carolyn was causing all sorts of problems. So it was quite hard to gauge whether they're at the best because the opposition kind of struggled. It was Olivia Clarke's debut, I think, for Leicester in the in the in the goal shoot at the Wales number one. She's traded what? Champions League for a relegation battle, I don't know, from FC 20. So yeah, but having said that, you know, City did what they needed to do and they did have a lot of the ball and you did see all the moves that we've been seeing against Arsenal

repeatedly coming through. They did allow Nelly Last toass to score. She's an other exciting play, only 17. Kind of found herself through on the right after they'd kind of messed up in the middle and given away possession. So there was still that sign that they're struggling to keep a clean sheet. So that's a bit of a worry. So I think back to the best, not quite. Jury's out for that one. But yeah, just very quickly on Bunny Shaw, when she did come on, she came on at half time. When the layer of Alexandria went off, she was given the captain's armband. So that was a nice positive for her anyway. I'm just going to back up the Nelly Lazloff arm because I'm determined in any place I

go to bake her up because she has a huge young talent. She obviously was at the end of 17th World Cup with England last year and just won two watch and her goal was one to watch as well. Excellent. Okay, we'll definitely look out for her. Chelsea continued their relentless form 22 wins from 23 this season they're into the quarterfinals they were given an early test though by Everton. Thanks for stunning Olimpigo from Sarah Homeguard. Brian Sorensen wouldn't comment on both penalties given against his side but is he right maybe to feel a little aggrieved, Susie,

about the way Chelsea got themselves back into the game? Maybe. I think the first one in particular feels a little bit harsh. It's really hard to see on the replays because we don't get the best camera angles for these things, but it looks like it could be outside of the box and it looks a little bit soft or just on the edge of the box even maybe.

So, yes, you could see that given either way. The second one I think is a little bit more clear cut although it's just a little bit unlucky because it's almost like the player sort of falls into Aguiver Jones like rather than necessarily challenges her. But that, you know, still, you know, it's bad luck but I'd say it's a penalty. But yeah, the first one, you know, when they, when Chelsea are getting back into the game, coming from a goal behind, I could understand maybe a little bit of frustration. It does feel a little bit soft. She goes down quite easily and, you know, you could say it may well be outside the box just about. So yeah, like maybe he's

got a case, but until we get better camera angles on these things, it's hard to really say it definitively. And I have a frustration. Add it onto the list. True FA Cup vibes in Telford on Saturday. Wolves against Manchester United. Dan McNamara's side fell to a six nil defeat though, but it was a new record crowd and you were there, Soph. I want to know what you made of the occasion, but most importantly, the Wolves Women's Podcast have messaged us on social media. They say, good to see Soph at the new Buck's head, but did she stop off for orange chips en route from Walsall?

So this is going to sound probably very southern to me or very uneducated, but I have no idea what orange chips are. But no, I didn't, unfortunately. But I will sneak them out next time I go. It was a very special occasion at Walsall. And I know they got beaten comfortably in the end. But I think actually when you bring into it all of the context of the match where Wolves are at,

where Manchester United are at, the kind of difference in kind of professional, like the full-time, part-time model or whatever, and that kind of elite, like international player level compared to the players that Wolves have, they have some really good quality players, don't get me wrong, but they're not of the Manchester United, you know, international standard. I think Wolves actually did a good job of themselves in not of the Manchester United international standard. I think Wolves actually did a good job of themselves in terms of the resilience that they put up in the first half. Some of the tackles flying in were absolutely superb. If you love defending, some of those are ones to watch and repeat. But they did a good job and the occasion was

brilliant and it was a record crowd for them. And it was just pure FA Cup match that we all love to see. Love it. Listen, I've done one of those like kind of quick Google what are orange chips. This is what's come back. If you've never had orange chips, then your entire existence to this day has been obsolete. I mean, it's a black country classic that for some unknown reason hasn't really ever made it out of the Midlands I'm gonna tell you why it's not made it out of the Midlands in a second It's basically normal chips dipped into a seasoned batter before they're fried. So effectively battered chips Wow. Oh my goodness next level that is next. Well, I mean battered Mars bars have always been next level But then you know that that literally is is on par

Mars bars have always been next level, but that literally is on par without a doubt. Wowza! I promise to go and seek them out next time I'm in the Midlands. Google says you can add turmeric to it and that's a well-known anti-inflammatory that all the footballers love. So maybe some health benefits there. Maybe. Maybe it needs to be introduced to academies and maybe not. We found out yesterday that in Pennsylvania, one of the local specialities is pizza with

cold toppings on. So like a cooked pizza base with cooked tomato sauce on, but then cold toppings, like cold grated cheese, raw onions, like cold meats and I like, yeah, just staggered by the... I don't mind that. I'm just gonna put it out there. I mean, I am someone who likes pineapple on pizza, so can never marry an Italian. My husband is not Italian and I'm not gonna divorce him anytime soon, by the way, just in case he think that. But pineapple on pizza is good and I wouldn't mind and I don't mind cold pineapple or hot pineapple it's fine. Yeah but like cold cold cheap cold unmelted cheese and raw onion on on on a cooked pizza base. Oh you are. We need to get you to

Pittsburgh and leave you there. The Guardian have an entire food app and this is what you're arguing for. That's it, upgrade us to the food app. Brilliant. Right, other headlines from the weekend. Sunderland progressed. So they're the last remaining non-WSL side in the competition. Crystal Palace also made history reaching the quarter finals for the first time. Really big for both clubs, Sani. This is a question from Nag on X related to this. What can be done to have Plymouth moments in the Women's FA Cup? Plymouth obviously knocked out Liverpool in the Men's FA Cup at the weekend. Is it purely investment and as such is expansion of the WSL and the Women's Championship Crucial. We mentioned this already, Nag, as well.

I don't think B-teams will help as they'll hoard talent rather than raise all. What do you make of those two results and Nag's broader points as well? Yeah, it's interesting on the Newcastle defeat because you look at the numbers and you just assume that, oh well, they've invested loads and they're on the up and they'll give Palace a good go. And they did, you know, keep it to what, till the 81st minute before Palace were able to get ahead, but it was like pure Palace. There was still that big gap in quality. I guess it comes down to, and you spoke about this on the pod as well, like to get the players to commit to playing of that quality at that level they've got to weigh up their entire careers and their entire lives,

whether they want to, you know, risk risk going down to the lower reaches of the pyramid and whether the investment will still be there. Because you've seen enough clubs kind of pull out, haven't we? And then you kind of left high and dry. So, I mean, yeah, Newcastle did did acquit themselves pretty well. Palace, again, I think, rotated. So, yeah, maybe maybe need to. I don't know.

It'd be nice to see Newcastle go up, but then you've only got the you've got so few that can climb up. It just takes time, doesn't it? And Sunderland, yeah, when they are what the lowest ranked team left in the competition now, they had it pretty, pretty straight against against Pompey. But they've kind of labored to get to this point in the other rounds as well, so I think there's a lot more to come. I hope they get a home tie in the draws made and if they can move it to the Stadium of Light and it'll just be

yet another really good advert for football in the North East. And we kind of need that region to keep growing, don't we? Yeah, without a doubt. They've produced some incredible players over the years. So the draw for the quarterfinals is going to be made tonight, that's Tuesday evening at Wembley Stadium. The fixtures are scheduled to be played the weekend of the 8th and 9th of March. I think we're pretty much all agreed that we definitely don't want to see Manchester City against Chelsea, more on that coming up. That's it for part one. In part two we're going to look at the semi-finals of the Subway Women's League Cup,

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Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So more cup action to get our teeth into midweek with the semi-finals of the Subway Women's League Cup getting underway on Wednesday night. Chelsea booked their spot in their fifth consecutive League Cup final when they beat West Ham at King's Meadow. It finished Chelsea 2-0 West Ham thanks to first half goals from Johanna, Ritting, Kanyarid and Shuka Nushkin. It was another victory for Chelsea, the encounter much closer though than when the two sides met early in January. You spoke to Rhianne Skinner after the game, Susie, didn't you? What were her reflections on West Ham's performance? Yeah, I mean, she was really pleased with the performance and like arguably rightly so,

right? Like, I mean, it was, you know, over in the first half with Chelsea scoring twice within the first half an hour, but they did well to not collapse after that, to keep the margin narrow, threatened on the break now and again, looked really organized against quite a relentless Chelsea press, but at the same time, Chelsea were quite heavily rotated, so that helped too. She she was really pleased with the fight shown. Obviously it's disappointing to lose and not go through to a final but at the same time she was very much saying that it's solid form that they could take into their next fixtures which I think was a reasonable reflection. The WSL YouTube page did an entire supercut of every touch from Kiera Walsh, which is quite nice to watch.

It was a first start for Chelsea. Faultless, absolutely faultless. It was great to see her back playing, picking up the ball, moving around. It's weird seeing an entire match where a player doesn't make a single mistake. So if you have 10 minutes of time, go and watch that. It was quite enjoyable. Brilliant. Thursday evening, Manchester City edged past Arsenal at Meadow Park, returning to the final for the first time since 2022. It finished Arsenal 1, Manchester City 2. 95th minute winner from Mary Fowler that got Gareth Taylor's side over the line. What changed though, so from the league game just four days earlier? So both sides made a few changes, changed their positioning a bit I think.

For Gareth Taylor's side, his changes just work the better in the night I think. It's always really interesting when teams play back to back I think and I always say that the one who loses the first game kind of has maybe a bit more of an advantage in the second game because maybe subconsciously the the winners of the first game kind of drop off a bit and their levels a bit or or you anticipate the changes that you're going to make so it kind of forces you to up your game a bit. I think in this game Mary Fowler went up top into the number nine, Viv Meadomar dropped deep and I know we said on this podcast before that you know we love seeing Viv in the number nine, we love seeing we think

that's where she's best played but in that game she was absolutely impossible to stop for Arsenal, she was just cutting through the lines like anything with her passing and everything and you can understand why a she enjoys being there influencing the play and setting up Mary Fowler, but also you can understand why coaches, you know, it's not just one coach, there's multiple coaches see her in that kind of number 10 kind of role. So it was a really good advert, maybe some adaptability that City could be making in the coming days. But I do think these games between City and Chelsea are so close all the time. City and Chelsea on the brain obviously. But no, these games between City and Arsenal are so close, the margins are so narrow and on any given day either one of them could win it. So it makes

it really exciting. Yeah, the reason why you've got Chelsea and Manchester City on the brain, Sophie, is because it is Chelsea and Manchester City in the final on the 15th of March, which is at Derby County's Pride Park. Right, the draw for the Champions League quarter and semi-finals provided all of the drama on Friday afternoon. Perhaps inevitably there's going to be an old Barclays-WSL match-up. Chelsea drew Manchester City. This is ridiculous now, isn't it? Arsenal will face Spanish side Real Madrid, Wolfsburg and Barcelona both multiple winners of this

competition. They're going to meet each other while last year's finalists Leon will come up against Bayern Munich. So the winner of Chelsea Man City will then face Wolfsburg or Barcelona in the semis and Arsenal Real Madrid's winner will face Leon or Bayern Munich's winner. We've just been talking about this a second ago but I mean a few gasps maybe on the on Chelsea and Manchester City's fans lips when that draw was made. Sani it means with the WSL and the League Cup final the two are going to meet each other four times in the space of 12 days. And bearing in mind what Susie was saying earlier about who gets the advantage perhaps in those kind of situations, even Stephens, two each, is that the way it works? I mean this is going to be painful.

Certainly if you're Gareth Taylor and as I said he doesn't like rotating his side I really do think by the time you get to that second Champions League game, I mean actually come to think of it, if you think about the pressure that Gareth Taylor's under this is kind of make or break in some respects for him if he were to lose the final and depending on the performances there he'd be in real trouble and think about how they lost the league title last season on goal difference. I mean this is kind of a stalking horse isn't it Chelsea? And Sonia Bonpastor hasn't missed a beat since she replaced Emma Hayes so, ah god, how many times can you play it

Chibba before you all blur into one? That's the issue we're going to have. We'll be trying to piece out which game was which. It'd be like Memento or something, we just won't know what's happened. So yeah, a fascinating run. There's a West Ham game to break it all up and then it all just blurs together. I don't know what we're going to do. There's going to be a blur of blue. Let's bring some red into the equation.

Will Arsenal be fairly happy with their draw, Suzie? Yes. If you saw my reaction in various group chats, then that would be an easy answer. I mean, obviously, no game is easy to coin every cliche at that stage of the Champions League. But in terms of the team that you would want in the first knockout game being Real Madrid off the choices on offer, then you would probably take it right. They're fairly new to the tournament, they've not got past the quarterfinal stages, they don't have that depth of experience in the tournament in the

way that a lot of the other teams do. Barcelona obviously dominate domestically, so it's the kindest draw for them. That said, Real Madrid are probably thinking the same. So it's the kindest draw for them. That said, Real Madrid are probably thinking the same. So, you know, it's regardless of you sort of how well Arsenal been doing under René Sleggers compared to a lot of the other teams in the competition, you know, they don't necessarily feel like they're up there punching with them at the moment completely. So it's a kind draw and to avoid Barcelona, City and Chelsea until the final potentially, whilst Bayern and Lyon are no easy teams to get past, they have done that in recent seasons. They've got a bit of confidence going into games like that against those teams because they've been there and

they have got past them. So it is a kind draw. Whether they can make the most of it remains to be seen, but it is a kind draw. Wolfsburg, Barcelona is going to be fascinating. Multi-winners of the competition, both of them. Obviously the Barcelona are the in team, they're the favourite at the moment. They've been all kind of dominant in Europe in recent years, but also they're going to easy match. So that's going to be fascinating. I do think Barcelona probably have enough to get through that one.

And then Lina against Bayern is also going to be equally intriguing because neither team are without their faults as much quality as that they have. And I think for Bayern Munich, if Georgia Stamwe can get back in time, I'm not sure if she will though. That's going to be absolutely crucial for them. But that's not notwithstanding the fact that vanilla harder, you know, is absolutely rampant in this competition all the time. So she's got the quality of them. And Leon was a bit of an unknown, I think, because they do really well in their domestic leagues. They had a pretty good group stage, but you never know what kind of a Leon's going to come out in

the knockout stages but obviously they have so much history in this competition as well so they'll be building on that so yeah really hard to call. Yeah very nice fence sitting. Check on your splinters Soph please. Plenty of action in the FA Women's National League this weekend. Nottingham Forest pulled three points clear of Wolves at the top of the table, beating Liverpool Feds. Burnley continued to keep up the chase with a 7-0 victory over struggling Halifax. Ipswich Town failed to make proper ground on league leaders

hashtag United, being held to a one or draw away to Lewis. They do, however, still hold three games in hand as they look to keep up the chase. Middlesbrough's 1-0 victory over Stockport County moved them to just one point behind Cheedle Town's Stingers in the Division 1 North. Leefield Athletic made it four wins in a row to stay top of the Midlands division, while Chatham Town continued to lead the way just in the south-east despite defeat to Norwich City. Finally, victory for Moneyfield saw them keep their noses in front of AFC Bournemouth in the southeast despite defeat to Norwich City. Finally victory for Moneyfield saw them keep their noses in front of AFC Bournemouth in the southwest division. Bournemouth themselves racked up a 7-0 victory over

Bridgewater United as they continue to chase for the title. We'll keep you updated with everything at FA Women's National League throughout the season of course as we start to get into the business end if you like a cliche in football. Right now then this is very important to discuss and very difficult actually for us to fully discuss because we don't have all of the details and we have two very conflicting opinions of what happened but let's discuss where we can. So yesterday Espanyol released a statement expressing our complete discontent with

and condemnation of the events that took place last Sunday in their game against Barcelona, when Barcelona defender Mapileon appeared to gesture towards the crotch area of their player, Daniela Caracas. This is part of the statement. During the match match FC Barcelona player Maria PR Leon whilst jostling with Daniela Caracas made a gesture with her hand that violated

the intimacy of our player. The statement continued although Caracas was unable to react at the time due to the impact of the situation later after, after assimilating what had happened, she became aware of the seriousness of the gesture but chose not to react angrily in order to avoid a disciplinary sanction that would harm the team. In addition to what happened on the pitch, there was a regrettable response on social media where our player has been the target of insults from hundreds of profiles. We're concerned that instead of focusing on the incident itself, part of the media attention has been diverted to other issues unrelated to the seriousness of the action."

So later in the day, Mapuleon herself issued a statement through FC Barcelona denying any wrongdoing. This is what she had to say, at no time did I, nor was it my intention, infringe upon the intimacy of my fellow professional Daniela Karakis. As the images show, it was part of a playing action in which she deliberately touches me and I touch her leg saying in reaction to the clash, what's up with you? There's no contact with her private parts and certainly no intention. I insist it was just part of the game that does not warrant the importance that's been attached to it. The idea of touching the private parts of a colleague would never enter my head, it

goes against my principles and I'd never do such a thing. I condemn the harassment that Daniela appears to have been suffering on social networks which has nothing to do with me and I offer her my most sincere support. There's been noise and controversy surrounding my name aimed solely at damaging my image and principles by spreading manipulated news and events for other purposes evidencing the week that we're in. I'm deeply upset and disappointed and hence reserve the right to take legal action against whomever might be seeking to exploit this strictly footballing incident to cause me damage and continue spreading unfounded

accusations." Suzie, there's not that much we can say because as Mapuleon said in her statement, you know, she reserves the right to take legal action of what she thinks is reputational damage towards her. We know that we're currently in the middle of the trial of the former Spanish president, Luis Rubiales. I presume that's what she is alluding to within that. What more can we say? Not a huge amount.

It's a really tough one because we've all seen the footage. It doesn't look good for her. You want to give players the benefit of Daniela and Espana want to pursue and how extensively the league are going to look into things because the statements are so contradictory that it's really hard to work out what has actually taken place. But regardless of that, the sort of furore around it and the abuse directed at Caracas and the questioning of her gender and things like that is really not appropriate at all in any way and needs to be condemned. So regardless of whether the incident took place as it seems or another way yeah we need to condemn the sort of response to it and the foray around it and any abuse that she's received which obviously is

horrific. And Liga F haven't commented yet we have to wait to see what they say as well. Finally the NWSL have announced plans to create a five million dollar restitution fund to compensate players who were victims of abuse by coaches and officials. Last Wednesday, the league reached an agreement with the attorney generals of Illinois, New York and Washington DC that requires the league to create the fund and implement league-wide policy changes to improve player safety, which is a good thing, Soph. Very much so. This has been long running since, you know, the, I think it was 2021, where the kind of abuse scandal kind of took to real light in the NWSL.

And since then, we've had investigations, reports and recommendations of what should happen. So the fact that we're nearing a conclusion in terms of money for the victims of the abuse conversation is really important and hopefully the league has learned a lot of lessons from what happened in the past and are really clear about moving forward in the future and making sure that the safety of their players are completely paramount. Yes indeed. Right it has been a really heavy pod today so thank you so much for for bearing with us on it we need to talk about these really important issues on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly and beyond so

thank you for bearing with us we did manage to have a little bit of light and shade with it and a bit of fun and actually let's end on a high shall we in terms of going over to Wembley because the Lionesses are back in action in a couple of weeks time with two Nations League games against Portugal and Spain and Serena Vigman is announcing her squad today. We're recording this in the morning and this little insert is from the wonderful Sophie Downey and Susie Rack who are at Wembley with all the news of the squad announcement. So Susie and I are here at Wembley and England's squad announcement has just been announced.

What did you make of it Susie? Yeah it's interesting. Obviously Chloe Kelly admitted from the squad for the first time in quite some time. Both a surprise and not a surprise I think we were saying in that she's not played enough minutes. I think she had one start for City in the first half of the season, obviously joined Arsenal, and she was given a little bit of leeway before Christmas. But Serena basically said that she has to settle in at Arsenal and get some minutes and put in some performances because things are very competitive at the moment. And then it's really, really great

along that theme that Nikita Paris is back in the squad because she made that move, she took that risk from United to Brighton to get minutes and it's paid off. I think she's got like nine goals in 19 games for them in all competitions, so like a real impressive start to the year and has really earned it after two years out of the squad. And arguably in a position where England may be a bit short on different profiles of kind of fours, is number nines. Obviously got Alessi Ruto who's been in great form for Arsenal recently, but she is a different profile of number nines. So having an opportunity to be maybe a bit more versatile in that England squad. Exactly. And then it's good to see people like Laura James and her too back in the side after like long spells out with injury. And then we've also got Georgia Stanway, Alex

Greenwood, Lauren Hemp and Frank Kirby all missing through injury. Serena Vigman said that Frank Kirby was quite close to making a return. The others are obviously all a bit further away, but she said she was hopeful that they might make it back in time for the Euros and get some minutes towards the end of the season that would help get them ready for the start. But in some cases that might be a massive ask. I tell you what I was really pleased to see was the inclusion of Laura Blink-Brown and Ruby Mace once again. Yes, they're young, they're probably not going to get that many minutes on the pitch,

especially in these competitive games. But for them to move up from the under-23s, made that move up to the seniors and start being in and around the squad. Maybe not necessarily for this tournament, but then for the following tournament, you're getting them into that cycle, aren't you? Definitely. Lotta-Wabamoy as well. Good to see her back in. She's had a bit of a like stop-start relationship with England, I guess with Alex Green being without that it, you know, she's really kind of Done her time really and earned that spot. And then one final thing. I think real surprise for me was the admission of Gabby George Didn't get to ask Serena about that, but she's been in such good form for Manchester United

She's a natural left-back as well. I was a bit surprised that Serena didn't go with her. Yeah, bring her back Wonderful stuff looking forward to those matches. Right, Sanni, it's been an absolute delight to have you on with us for your debut. Very good work. Hopefully see you again soon. A pleasure, anytime. Excellent. Sophie, you can now go and get your coffee that you've been sat in the car waiting for for an hour. I can. I don't know how I made any sense without any caffeine so I desperately needed. You made lots of sense. Susie, see you at Wembley. Yeah, see you at Wembley. See you all later as well, keep

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