The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Chelsea top of WSL tree for winter break – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

Faye Carruthers rounds up the final, weather-hit weekend of WSL action in 2022 alongside Suzanne Wrack, Flo Pollock and Tim Stillman

This is The Guardian. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. While the Manchester derby didn't disappoint, but bragging rights are divided at the Etihad. Arsenal come from behind, West Ham win, while Chelsea end the year top of the WSL tree. Late postponements, meanwhile, just dampen the Christmas mood a little bit. We'll round up everything from the final WSL weekend of the calendar year.

Have a look at the FA Cup fourth round draw. Take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, well, well, it seems to me as I arrive back

into Blighty from Qatar that there seems to be in train service nightmares left right and center Susie Rack Manchester what happened it was a nightmare so obviously most of the trains were cancelled the morning we're going up then we managed to get on a train we're chucked off at Nuneaton oh we're not we're not even told we're basically a load of passengers just got on the train and went this train's going to london now and we're like what are you talking about and they were like yeah yeah uh that train is going

to wherever you're going we've been told to get on this train because it's going to london now we're like no one's told us so we all just kind of tentatively got off the train got onto the train on the other platform and then they like started moving after like 45 minutes or something and then someone tentatively went over the town like oh sorry if there's been no announcement but yeah the other train couldn't go south anymore and how is that a thing how how could it how could it go north but not south or the other way around our train i think it was our train couldn't go south anymore and could only go north so they had swapped them around and she was like i have no idea what's going on but it's happened we move um we missed the first i want to say 20 minutes of the game there was about five journalists on the train a few people from the FA uh raced across Manchester to try and get there yeah not

not the most fun but uh but we saw the goals so that was that was good I mean that's that's the important bit I would say Tim Stillman I mean you could still be stranded in Birmingham I suppose you also had train nightmares by the way this is your train information service for anybody who does not get train information service normally yeah absolutely um thankfully I made it back to London Euston just as the kind of the snow was falling uh as the song goes but yeah yeah, I had to get a £110 cab back from London Bridge because basically that was it for the night. At about nine, ten o'clock, they stopped all of the trains. So yeah, that's something I'm going to sort separately with the train company, that particular receipt.

Oh, right. Well, good luck with that. Flo Pollock, BBC comment making a pod debut I mean do tell me a train tale is clearly fascinating it's the only way to start a women's football weekly podcast yeah I actually feel quite smug because I watched the Manchester derby from my sofa on the telly box but I did have to go out later to do some work for the women's football show and on my way back yeah when it started to snow all the tubes stopped working which I don't really understand why they're underground so I got off and got a line bike and I was cycling through London at like 10 p.m on a line bike and that was a bit it was a bit hairy but um I made it home wow oh my goodness me uh let's start with the Etihad shall we Manchester

City won Manchester United won fantastic fixture We were all looking forward to it. 44,000 fans plus as well, which is fantastic. Leah Galton giving United a 1-0 lead in the first half, but Laura Coombs-Hedder stopping them from getting their first ever WSL win over City. Who was this the better result for, Susie? That's a good question. I'd say arguably Man City because I thought United were the better side throughout. I mean, City had a great second half, but on balance, I felt like United had the edge throughout. It did feel like a little bit of a shift, even though United are yet to sort of beat City in the league. And Mark Skinner said it at the end,

saying that the difference was is they felt like they hadn't come off feeling like they had defended for their lives and that they felt really disappointed with the result and that that was a little bit different. And it did feel like that. It did feel like they had dictated the game and the way things were played, the tempo in midfield. And yeah, I think arguably Man City, but a draw is probably a fair result on balance

because City did have a really decent second half. Yeah, I could see why United were frustrated as well. But yeah, a draw is probably fair. I mean, they were better second half, Tim, but they kind of lacked a bit of fluidity throughout the game, really struggling to get their front three into play. Looked a bit devoid of ideas at some points as well. What's missing from this City side? Yeah, I think Gareth Taylor referenced afterwards.

He was talking about this looks like my team now. You can see we're beginning to gel and things like that. And so I think you can, I mean, there's an element, I think, of him talking that up a little bit. And obviously managers do that sometimes because they're talking to their own team as much as they're talking to supporters and journalists. And yeah, I agree with you.

I think United were the better team here until City equalised. And City's equaliser felt a little bit like it came out of nowhere. And after that, the game felt quite chaotic, quite end-to-end, and I don't think either team really knew what they wanted out of the game. And probably in the end, neither of them consider a draw a disaster. But I think you can just see with City, they've got good players, but you can see that they you know they look like a team whose entire midfield left this summer which it did so there is kind of some justification for that and really it's just a question of whether those players they brought

in in the summer can come up to the mark with any great consistency I think this is probably still a slightly better result for United just because they won at the Emirates a couple of weeks ago. And I think they have to be happy with taking four points from those two games. Although, again, Susie referenced Mark Skinner's comments afterwards. And again, I think he's talking to his own team as much as anything else and talking about how they felt disappointed when they came off.

But yeah, City are just clearly still a work in progress. And I think that really showed in this game and I think the fact that someone like Laura Coombs has been there quite a while and she's beginning to get the spotlight now I don't think that's a coincidence that someone who's actually been in that squad for quite a while is the one kind of leading the charge a little bit. I can see why Mark Skinner's frustrated and why he would think his team were frustrated because it feels as if they have a little bit of a mental block when they play City I can see why Mark Skinner's frustrated and why he would think his team were frustrated, because it feels as if they have a little bit of a mental block when they play City flow.

It doesn't seem to matter how well they perform. They just can't get that win over the line. And it feels as if everything will just kind of click when they do that. Or is that too simplistic to think like that? Yeah, I think that's kind of a bit of narrative in a sense. And I actually think Man United should be really, really, really happy with how they perform because obviously, you know, obviously the result,

I think, yeah, on balance, they maybe should have got the win. And like you say, it's so big for your mentality to get that win over your rivals. But I was really, first of all, it was such a good match, such a good tactical match but at the end when you saw the players Man United fans like so frustrated and then the post-match Mark Skinner was disappointed that they didn't get the win and Gareth Taylor was like yeah I think

the draw was a fair result and I was just quite struck by the difference it felt like Man United are going for the title and you know we're disappointed that they dropped points and Man City I was just I was quite struck by their lack of ambition. They were at home at the Etihad in front of a massive crowd. And they were quite pleased

to get a one-all draw and let Man United dictate the game. I was just, yeah, I haven't seen too much of Man City this season. And I know Tim said,

you know, they are rebuilding after losing their whole midfield. But I was just kind of struck by that. And then Gareth Taylor later on in the interview went to talk about how they're going for thefield but I was just kind of struck by that and then Gareth Taylor later on in the interview went to talk about how they you know they're going for the title

I was just thinking not like that you're not. Do you know what we'll pick that up in the second part of the pod because we're going to analyse the season so far and I think that's a really really interesting point that we should look at but let's analyse the goals from this game first because Leah Galton on the score sheet first for United she was their standout player really consistently threatening on the left-hand side we've talked a lot in the past Susie about the importance of Ella Toon and Alessia Russo to this side but Leah Galton maybe has been actually their best player of the season yeah I think there's decent shout for that she's phenomenally good and she flies under the radar a little bit

because obviously she's not in the England team out of choice, protecting herself and her mental health around the game and playing the game, having had a bit of a bad spell and almost walking away from it before she joined Man United when they formed. So yeah, she doesn't maybe get the attention and the headlines the likes of Tooney and Russo pick up. But, you know, phenomenally good player. When she's out, you really, really notice a hole on the wing for them.

And she's just so positive, always driving forwards, always seeking the return ball. I mean, you look at her, as soon as she releases the ball to Ella Toode, she's moving again and looking for the return ball and waiting for it and ready for it and hungry for it. And that's what you get. She's a real fighting player. Yeah, she really is. Flo, were you surprised by the lack of substitutes from both sides in this game? Martha Thomas came on in the 72nd minute for United, Lucia Garcia in the 84th. And then we didn't see Hayley Rasso come on until the 85th minute. It all felt a little bit late.

Yeah, it did a little bit. Although I thought Man United's subs were pretty good. I think Thomas came on and Garcia came on and they pressed from the front. And I think that they made a bit of a difference. And you know, Garcia nearly got a goal near the end. So I thought they were good. I think Man United, there was a spell in the game after City scored and then for about 20 minutes when they were under the cosh a little bit and i was watching it and men united dropped quite deep i think sometimes when you're under the cosh you you drop deep because it feels safer right and i think they're two central midfielders zelem and hayley ladd kind of collapsed in on the center halves one because i think after 60 minutes they're kind of the gas right and it's quite hard to get up and down the pitch they kind of collapsed in on on their centre-halves and they were under pressure a bit and I was kind of thinking, I wondered if Mark Skinner could have made a sub there, brought someone into the midfield

to kind of re-energise the midfield get everyone back up the pitch and kind of hold that space but overall I thought Man United subbed aside from that I think there could have been a tweak there although I'm not sure if they had someone on the bench that they could have brought in for for Zellum or Ladd, and I think think Zelim and Ladd played really well, actually.

I think they did very well in the midfield. But I think there was that 20-minute spell where they kind of, yeah, they dropped a bit too deep and were kind of a bit stuck there. But yeah, I think the subs worked in terms of Thomas and Garcia. But yeah, Man City, yeah, subs a bit late. And yeah, I don't know with Man City. I've just, as I said, it's just the kind of lack of ambition and the,

I just felt a bit confused because they've got that fabulous front three, right? Bunny Shaw, Hemp, and Chloe Kelly. And the whole game I was thinking, okay,

they're going to, the game plan's got to be isolate Kelly and Hemp one-on-one with the defenders because they're excellent wingers. I just never saw that happen. I never saw Man City's style of play never really facilitated that. And I think Hemp was struggling

against Onabadjo as well. She was really struggling. She did a job on her. The Spanish right back. So maybe they could have made a sub there earlier. But yeah, I think overall Man United better with the subs

and Man City just a bit lacking really. I don't know if I'm being a bit harsh on Man City here. Well, I don't think so, but I think you've kind of, and I feel really bad saying this for any Manchester City fans out there and for Gareth Taylor as well, but they just feel a bit meh at times. I don't really think they're, I don't know. I don't know what it is, but as I say, we'll analyse it in part two. We'll talk about some of their summer signings as as well Aston Villa won Arsenal four though Tim Stillman another good performance from Viv Miedema looks back to her best perhaps is it as basic as her just needing

a bit of a break or has Jonas Eidevall changed the way his team play around her as a 10? Yeah, that's really interesting because what they had been doing before this game, Katie McCabe's been playing on the right wing instead of Beth Mead. And what that's meant is because Katie McCabe comes inside quite a lot, she's taking up a lot of the areas that Viv usually plays in. So Viv's been pushing forward quite a lot. And that's what happened in the three games before this. That's not what happened in this game, though.

In this game, Arsenal's game plan was much more about getting their wingers behind Villa's full-backs. So actually, Viv was playing much more as she had been for the last few months. So I do think the rest definitely beneficial. Very, very much much so she talked about she didn't have a pre-season she suffered badly with Covid at the Euros you know I asked her about it and she said look I know some people just get a cold when they have Covid but she said I was in

bed for 10 days I had it really badly and it affected my pre-season so she clearly needed that break both physically and mentally but there has has been some tactical shift, but that's just not what happened in this game. And actually, the goal she scores in this game is from a set piece this time, rather than from open play. Some real gifts from Hannah Hampton, Susie, for the Arsenal attackers. What have you made of her return to the Aston Villa side? It's not been the best return she could have had last week. Not great either. But I think she was let down by her defenders in this game.

I mean, she made a fair few decent saves and there was no one there to fight for the second ball, the rebound. All of the three goals that Arsenal scored beyond the own goal were very similarly positioned right in the centre of the box, pretty much unmarked. And you sort of think after the first one, they're going to start closing off that space and they never do. So I sort of feel like she's a little bit hard done by in this game, in that defensively, as a whole, they weren't great.

And yeah, not the best return like I say particularly after last week where I thought she was was not great but again this time around sort of not entirely her fault either. The reason Arsenal really exposed Villa is because Villa leave their wingers really high Lehmann and Hansen and actually Villa have a really really good front four and the way they've changed this season is they don't, when they play these teams, they don't put eight, nine players behind the ball. And on this occasion and against Man United before this,

Villa kept getting exposed behind their fullbacks. And that's what kept happening here. Arsenal got in behind three times. But I still think that this is the right approach for Villa because when you look in the kind the history of the WSL, most teams who upset the big teams don't draw with them 0-0. There aren't many draws in this league anyway. Almost never do you put 10 behind the ball against Arsenal, Chelsea, City and draw 0-0. It almost never happens.

When these upsets happen, it's because teams win. And you look at Villa Villa they already beat Man City 4-3 this season which for me completely justifies their approach because if you're playing eight games in a season against the top four and you try to draw them all nil-nil you'll probably never do it you might do it once if you're lucky but they've already taken three points by going scoring four goals against City winning 4-3 I still think it's actually a much better way for them to go particularly with the attacking talent they have it's a really good point that and you know I think if their front three had sort of had a little bit

more time they could have probably caused Arsenal a bit more trouble in that you know from what I've heard Rachel Daly hasn't trained all week in the build up to that game. You know, they only had four players on the bench. They were really slim picking. So they had players out there who weren't entirely fit and ready for that game. So, you know, that's another thing that kind of let them down a little bit. If we had a fully fit, fully trained Aston Villa side, then I think it would have been a tighter result. And we maybe would have seen a little bit more from them up top. Yeah that's quite interesting actually Flo and I tell you

what I haven't made note of in this podcast yet is that we have three Arsenal fans on which you know normally we spread the load a little bit more but three gunners on the pod and actually perhaps the Arsenal of yore would that be the right description the resilience may not have been there they they went behind after six minutes from from kirsty hansen and actually jonas ideveld praised the resilience of his side because we might have seen them have a little bit of a panic in previous years but in instead they kind of came back a little bit of luck with an own goal from Rachel Corsi, obviously, but then Miedema, Katie McCabe and Jordan Nobbs kind of finishing the game off.

But we might not have seen that, Flo. Yeah, it's true. I think the players coming back has made a big difference. You know, having Leah Williamson coming back, I know she didn't start. And I'm conscious of saying this right because Tim's here. Faele? Faele?

Yeah, there we go. Thumbs up. Having her back. And yeah, a lot of those players coming back from injury because Arsenal decimated with injuries. And they're just getting those players back. So I think having those kind of senior leaders

coming back to the squad helps a lot. And also, yeah, Leah Balty. I could just wax lyrical about her forever. She's so good in Arsenal's midfield. And she's so important, especially with Kim Little being missing. She's so important in that midfield and just really dictates stuff and did a really good job against Villa to make sure that Arsenal kind of won that midfield battle, intercepted all the three balls

and then got Arsenal playing again. But yeah, Arsenal are looking better now that they've got a lot of players back. They are, but it's Chelsea who top the table. 3-2 win over Reading. And by the time we reached that 6.45 kick-off, poor Tim Stillman was in a cab back from London Bridge, giving his life savings over in order to get home because the snow had begun to fall in London and at King's Meadow.

It didn't stop Chelsea going into a 3-0 lead, though. Goals from Fran Kirby and Jelena Cankovic. But two Reading goals in two minutes from Trollsgaard and Eichland made them a little bit nervous. Almost an upset, Susie. A little bit of an upturn in performance. Well, not just performance, actually, from Reading. I feel like the in um in performance and well not just performance actually from Reading I feel like the performances have been there and just not the points but they got back into the game what did Chelsea do wrong did they just switch off I think maybe not switch

off but just allowed Reading a little bit too much space I think took their foot off the gas a little bit you know 3-0 lead 33 minutes into the game and and you kind of think it's it's only going one way don't you to a certain extent we all did I'm assuming I did and that that can lead to a few mistakes and um and maybe a little gifting a little bit more space than perhaps the team deserves but credit to Reading I, they've had a phenomenal couple of weeks, really strong performances. Typical Kelly Chambers team performances and two really nice goals. And you saw it in the tackle. It was one for the first goal before it was swept inwards. Real fight there to win that ball despite being 3-0 down. And that's really satisfying I think it's the reason why Reading have managed to

stay in the WSL for so long is they're able to knuckle down and fight and cause teams real problems and they almost almost caused Chelsea a much bigger one they would have liked to just before Christmas. It was Jelena Cankovic's first WSL start for Chelsea, Tim. She really made an impression as well. Two goals. Arsenal apparently interested in her in the summer. How important is she going to be for Chelsea signings. They're usually, I mean, because of the size of the squad as well, but they're usually given that kind of six months to a year to bed in. And they started Cankovic and Kanarid in this game. And actually the way they set up, I'm constantly fascinated by the way that Emma Hayes uses her squad because she made, obviously this comes between two big Champions League games for Chelsea. She made a lot of changes. And I think there are times where Emma Hayes just says, look, I'm going to make five or six changes today. I know we're not going to be at our fluent best, but I back us to win anyway. Almost like game theory. And in this game,

like they play kind of Kirby in England as those split strikers and Cankovic in behind. And so she almost kind of became a bit of a centre forward arriving late late in the box and it's just, it worked perfectly and not least probably because Reading, for all the prep they could have done, they wouldn't have seen that before. They wouldn't have seen Canarid at right wing back. So as much as maybe it doesn't help Chelsea's fluency sometimes but they have enough to get over the line, it's probably difficult for the opposition as well

because if you're Kelly Chambers, you're probably not prepared for that at all and that's probably why Chelsea get the goals early in the game to win this game and then yeah I think you can tell they lost a little bit of fluency after that maybe minds turning to Champions League the weather became increasingly more difficult but I think with Reading as well I think you can see there's a bit of freedom coming into their game because I think they can see that Leicester are going to go down and that they're probably safe. And I do think that's helping them.

Well, the final game to talk about is Tottenham 0 West Ham 2. West Ham picking up their fifth win of the season. Goals from Dagny Brunner-Stottir and Hauer Sissoko while Tottenham stumbled to their third consecutive WSL loss. Flo, let's talk about Sissoko's goal. It was her first in the WSL. It was an incredible finish. But also, West Ham had a really tough time while she was banned. She kind of makes a big difference to this team. She definitely does. And she's a quality player.

I really, really rate how was Sissoko. And yeah, obviously obviously we'll talk about her defence in a moment but the goal the goal was so good wasn't it it was such a nice piece of skill and it was the

kind of goal you see from a centre forward not from a defender you know the lovely chip yeah she's a

great player I also feel a bit sorry for her she's obviously she got that red card for the uppercut which is a

red card 100% I was going to say I don't think there's any feeling sorry for her for that that was a very very misjudged card for the uppercut which is a red card 100 i was gonna say i don't think there's any any feeling sorry for her for that that was a very very misjudged moment of madness no debate on that one although i didn't like the way that people were trying to provoke her i thought that

that was not on didn't like that and yeah no debate on the uppercut it's a straight red um but i think some of the other i've seen her get yellows and being sent off in other games I felt a bit sorry for him because I think she's a combative center half but I don't think she's a dirty player and sometimes sometimes I've seen her do tackles and I've thought I don't know if Steph Horton would have got a yellow card for that I don't know if other players would have got a yellow card for that and that's just been something that's kind of played on my mind a little bit with her well potentially there's two reasons for it i know what you're trying to say but also some players come with a reputation and referees know what that

reputation is already and so you know you get it with divers as well yeah you know automatic assumption and she's maybe gonna have to to try and change that reputation. Yeah, I think that's probably what it is. It is a bit of a kind of reputation thing. And that recent red card is not going to help that either. But yeah, I think defensively, she's so good for West Ham. She's such a kind of key centre-half for them. Although Grace Fisk as well, actually,

I'm really impressed by her in defence for West Ham. And yeah, just generally quite impressed with West Ham because they lost Svitkova and Hasegawa over the summer who were quality players. And you know they're quality players because they went to Man City and Chelsea. But I think West Ham have done pretty well considering they've lost the two midfielders.

I think they're one to watch for the second half of the season. Yeah, definitely. Tottenham though. Tim, I mean, look, you love a bit of Tottenham bashing if you get the opportunity. Let's not Tottenham bash here. Let's assess, shall we? Because it's not their worst run of losses in the WSL, but I think it would be fair to say that they've been disappointing at points this season.

Bearing in mind how many players they brought in over the summer and this new Tottenham we thought we were all going to see, how much pressure is Rhiann Skinner under? Yeah, I don't think she'll be under immediate pressure in terms of her job, but what Spurs have really failed to do is not just kick on from the good season they had last season. I don't see really how they've tried to kick on because last season they were built on defence which is fine very comparable goals conceded record to Man City and Man United but they were way behind on goals scored so you look at this summer and you think okay your task is very clear not easy but clear you've got to score more goals

and their answer to that they brought in the Polish striker, is it Karaszewska, who's good at attacking you say okay we've got a good fullback who's good at attacking let's get a good winger who's good at attacking rather than saying well let's push the fullback forward and they they play drew spence up front and i'm not i'm not really sure i've ever seen drew spence play there before but it's really clear again what's happening this season is basically they've lost that defensive solidity so they've already conceded 14 they conceded only 23 last year so they're going to concede more goals and they've only scored 11 so their goal scoring record hasn't got any better and you look at the chances they're creating forgive me if you're not into the data

side but they've only created more than one xg twice this season one of those times was against liverpool where it's 1.1, well done. And then, of course, that time they thrashed Brighton, and actually their XG was something like 2.8, which is good. They need to do more of that. But basically, the chances they're creating, far less than a goal a game, and that is not good enough. Even if they bring their defence back to last season's levels, that's not good enough. And again, this is maybe teasing the second half of the pod, but a lot of those teams in the middle brought good attackers this summer and they've used them.

And I think that's why some of those teams are going to separate from Spurs. Going against my natural instincts here to come in and defend Spurs, I do feel sorry for them with some of the injuries they've got. Like you said, their Polish centre forward that they brought over the summer, she got injured. Kaya Simon, she's injured. Also, I think Kit Graham, everyone kind of forgets about her because she got injured last season.

And she's, I think, nearly back. She's actually a really good player for them. And she was a big attacking outlier in terms of assists and goals for them. So I think when she comes back in, she'll make a difference. But yeah, I feel a bit sorry for them in terms of, they're not scoring goals, but all their strikers are injured. I think, yeah, that's a bit of a kind of mitigating factor. And they've got January now, so they can, you know,

maybe get a striker in. And I think if they get a decent centre forward in, I think that can change their fortunes quite a lot, really. Give Tottenham a break, says Arsenal fan headline next day. Brighton Everton, first game to fall of the weekend. I get so frustrated with frozen pitches this time of year. I know that there's not a lot that many clubs can do because of where they play, but this is the top flight of the Women's Super League.

It is quite infuriating. A rescheduled date is going to be announced on Saturday. At least they were given a little bit of warning, the fans, because that's, you know, let's forget about what it does to the players and the preparations and the teams. It's the fans spending exorbitant amounts of money travelling around the country that struggle here. And, you know, the other game that was called off didn't give the fans the same amount of time. Two hours, Prenton Park failing a second pitch inspection before Liverpool's game with Leicester was due to kick off, which I just think is, you know, come on, you need to know a little bit earlier than that. And I just want to make a mention and send a

big shout out to Liverpool's Gilly Flaherty who posted on her social media this weekend that her dad John passed away suddenly over the weekend and I can't even imagine what she's going through at the moment absolutely horrendous and sending all of our love and best wishes from the Guardian Women's Football Weekly to Gilly and her family I've spoken to her on many occasions about her dad and yeah, sending lots of love to her. Right, that's all for part one. In part two, we're going to look at how things are looking at the halfway stage of the season and pick out some of the ties of the FA Cup fourth round draw. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without

insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, perhaps the most awaited second part of the Guardian's Women's Football Weekly ever recorded. The way I've been bigging it up. We are heading into the WSL's winter break. Tottenham do play Everton midweek as one of the rearranged fixtures.

But everyone else has close to a month off of WSL football. So at the top of the table, Chelsea are on 27 points. They have played that extra game though. Arsenal are on 24, Manchester United 22, Manchester City on 19. Let's start at the top, Susie. Does this make Chelsea favourites to win the title right now? I think whenever Chelsea are top of the league, they're favourites to win the title right now? I think whenever Chelsea are top of the league, they're favourites to win the title.

In fact, when they're second, they're usually favourites to win the title too. I mean, look at the game against Reading, as Tim said, a number of changes to cope with the load of games they've got around the Champions League. They still come away with a win. They still feel comfortable in that position, despite the fact that it's not the prettiest game and i think they very much

have played a number of not very pretty games this season but got the job done i don't think we're going to see them go backwards i think we're only going to see them go forwards um and i think the football will only get a little bit prettier so I always think if they're if they're top of the league it's very very hard to unseat them really hard um obviously they've got the game in hand but their next game is Arsenal um you know the first game to kick off the new year is a tasty trip to the Emirates um for a showdown between um Emma Hayes and Jonas Eidevall again for top spot, essentially. So that's a really, really tricky task for Arsenal to unseat them.

I'm really excited about that. What a way to start off 2023. And with that in mind, Tim, up to now, what have you made of Arsenal's season generally? Obviously, we've talked a lot about the injuries, but as Susie said you still have to play Chelsea and Manchester City twice next year how much of a concern is that? Yeah definitely and United away as well so the only other member of the big four Arsenal have

played is Manchester United at home and they lost I do think that was largely due to injuries and so there's been a sense among Arsenal fans for quite a while as soon as Arsenal lost Leah Williamson and Hafa Eli at centre half and then Kim Little and Beth Mead there's been a big sense of let's just get through this half of the season and be in touch at the same time as you say the fixtures get harder for Arsenal next year they are almost certainly going to be in the Champions League quarterfinal as well. If they win their group, which they should from this position, they'll play a team who finishes second.

So they might even go to a semi-final this year for the first time in a long time. So the Conte Cup comes into play. It's going to stack up fixtures-wise. However, on the flip side, Arsenal will have at least Kim Little back they've got their centre halves back now so maybe it was for the best that some of these games didn't happen the one area where I think Arsenal have been quite unlucky is they were due to play away at Man City on the first weekend of the season and I honestly think Arsenal would have won that game just because of the state city we're in,

Arsenal had all their players fit. I really, really think Arsenal would have gone and won there, had that game taken place when it was supposed to. But generally speaking, I think Arsenal... When I look at the four title contenders, Arsenal and Chelsea have had injuries in key areas. Chelsea have not had Fran Kirby for a lot of the season. They've not had Pernilla Harder. Arsenal have lost players.

And I think those are the two teams who can cope with injuries. I look at City and United, and I definitely consider particularly United a threat for the title. But I do just wonder, and I know they played without Russo for a few weeks, but if they lost two or three big players, whether they'd be able to keep the pace. So generally, I'm relatively

pleased with Arsenal but it's going to come down to how they perform in in those big games that's going to decide where they finish in the table and they're they're going to have to win some big difficult games in the second half of the season which I think they can do and Mark Skinner flow was talking was talking about title contention. But I think everybody at the moment is still just talking about them in terms of Champions League qualification and whether they get that third spot. Do you think they will, first and foremost?

Obviously, we've seen them at the latter stage of previous seasons kind of fall away because, as as Tim said their lack of squad depth what do you think this season have they got to have a little bit of luck in terms of injuries? Yeah I think that they do a little but I think as Tim said you know if they lose a couple of key players I think it depends where they lose them right because I think they've got like we spoke about Russo not being there but they've got Marcel Thomas and Garcia who I think they've got like, we spoke about Russo not being there, but they've got Marcel Thomas and Garcia, who I think are top players that can come in. But I think if they maybe lose players defensively or midfield, that they might struggle. But I think for them as well, they don't want to be talking about winning a title.

I think they should, you know, kind of keep that in the kind of back burner and they just want to be focusing on performances. And I think performance-wise, they should be really pleased. And when I watch their performances this season I'm thinking regardless of the results you're thinking is this repeatable is this sustainable can they get results playing like this in big games and I think they can that I think they're in a really good position to finish third I think yeah as you said it'll depend a bit on on luck and injuries and unlike Arsenal and Chelsea,

they've got the luxury of not being in the Champions League, so they can focus on one competition. Although so do Man City, which kind of helps Man City out as well. But I think it'll be really tight between Man United and Man City. And I think it'll come down to,

like it always does in the WSL, the big matches. Can United get points against Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City? If they can, and they've proven that they can this season, I think they'll get third. One final mention of Manchester City, Susie, because we were talking about them at the top of the pod

when we were going through the Manchester derby. Five of their starting 11 in that game were summer signings. Who impressed you the most? Who maybe was found a little bit wanting? And how key could those players potentially be as we come towards the end of the season? Yeah, that's a good question. I think Hasagawa has slotted in really, really well into that midfield. And it's sort of natural in that she'd obviously been playing

in the Women's Super League with West Ham anyway, so it wasn't as foreign, for want of a better word, for her to kind of find her. She didn't have to find her feet in the league like some of the other players have had, so I think she's had a slightly easier transition in. I think Castellanos looks promising and is starting to find her feet. I thought she looked pretty decent against United. Alexandre, again, another player that's growing

into the team. I feel like a lot of this team is going to show itself in the second half of the season. Gareth Taylor was pretty clear in his post-match presser that they're not going to be making huge changes to the side in january like they did a lot of business in the summer and you know there's that balance to strike isn't there between you know you've spent all this time trying to gel all of these new players into a starting 11 it's not just into the squad a lot of them have had to come straight into the starting 11 do you then disrupt that further by by bringing in a couple of new players in January they may well get some to just bolster the squad a little bit but I can't really see players disrupting the starting 11 that he's been

playing with lately too much and it's a strong team and the front three are unchanged and I think that's that's pretty critical once they've once they've built up those midfield relationships in particular then I think they'll they'll be all right I'm actually most worried for Arsenal to be fair like with the number of games um and any more injuries than I that I am about uh City um at the top three. But then if you won the Champions League, then all those worries might go away. All the pain drifts away.

It seems to be a very pretty set top four. I think everybody would be in agreement with them. Perhaps the disappointment this season is the mid-table teams that kind of promised so much, promised so much at the early stages and maybe not as much now. And actually, Tim, we discussed your proposal for the bottom of the league on the pod last week. I thought it was absolutely fascinating. We added a few different potentials in there as well. But what do you think the ambitions of the mid-table teams might be heading into into 2023

you know who I'm talking about Villa, West Ham, Everton you know enough points to be safe but what exactly are they aiming for this season? Yeah this to me just from a neutral perspective is probably the most fascinating part of the league these like aspirational clubs I call them the middle class of the WSL and I know there's not really anything riding on who finishes fifth or even fourth to be honest but I do feel like that kind of best of the rest for probably nothing more than pride but you know these clubs like Villa, West Ham, Tottenham who want to see themselves pushing more towards the Champions League places I just think they're fascinating how they deal with it. Obviously, the results they take off of each other will go a long way to governing that.

And Tottenham were very, very solid in those games last season because they didn't concede goals against those teams. But what a lot of those teams have done over the summer, you look at the transfer business, you know, West Ham bought in Vivian Assay from Bayern Munich. Big forward signing. Villa bought in Kirstie Hansen, Rachel Daly, Kenza Dali. Completely transformed what they can do going forward. So like I said earlier, they don't have to put 10 behind the ball anymore.

Everton are really fascinating as well. They've taken young players on loan from the bigger clubs like Gio, like Jess Park, Aggie Beaver Jones, Emily Ramsey and they look like they're trying to become maybe a bit of a finishing school which is but what they've all done I think what they've all realised maybe except for Tottenham is that by attackers by good attackers and you'll beat those teams around you and you can push to like probably no higher than fifth to be honest but you can push to that kind of level and and I think that's why you know if you wanted to

have a bet on who finished fifth I think that would be really really interesting I think Villa and West Ham are the two teams I'm looking at because I think they're the two that have done the most to their attack this summer and that's a really good point. And I'd love to see some of these teams really, really target some of those players that aren't getting many minutes at the top sides. Beth England. Beth England, Mano Iwabuchi. Like players that are real top quality players that need to be playing football before World Cup and before squads are picked.

There's a real opportunity there for the likes the likes of Tottenham the likes of Everton to get some some real real talent relatively easily because you'd like to think that those players are ambitious enough um and worried enough about their places in their in their national team squads left a little bit less so for your booty she's so so important to Japan that I doubt you know I think she could be asleep on the bench lying across four seats and would still walk into that side. But Beth England in particular, you know, she needs to think about what she's doing

and other teams really, really need to go for her. And I think that's where that battle is going to really hot up is if a couple of them really, really go all out to get some of those kind of names. If Tottenham aren't moving heaven and earth for Beth England in January, what on earth are they doing? Tottenham must look at Villa getting Rachel Daly and thinking, why didn't we do that?

But they've got another opportunity to go for a player like Beth England. And like you say, there's a World Cup coming up. She is not guaranteed in that squad at all. If Tottenham aren't already in Beth England's agent's ear, I think they should give up and go home, honestly. That's exactly what I was going to say, Tim. I think she could transform them. She's the player. They need that centre forward. She's the player. But I don't think Chelsea would let her go because I think Emma Hayes likes having that squad depth and she does use her on occasion, like at the weekend she started. So I think Chelsea Hayes likes having that squad depth and she does use her on occasion, like at the weekend she started.

So I think Chelsea wouldn't be keen to let her go. So I think unless Beth was really like pushing for the move, I don't think that she would go. But yeah, I think Tottenham should definitely do that. Or Chelsea were knocked out of the Champions League and the squad depth becomes slightly less important. Are any sides at risk, Susie, going into next year? I don't mean by going down in terms of these mid-table sides,

but maybe from moving on from their managers, as we saw with Hope Powell earlier on this season. Yeah, I mean, I think given that we've already seen Lydia Bedford go as well, I can't see any big managerial changes in the second half of the season. It's not like completely ruled out. Obviously Brighton have still got to decide who they're bringing in. But yeah, I can't really see any big managerial changes. I mean, obviously Rhiann Skinner's position at Tottenham

is being questioned a little bit, but I don't think it's being questioned loudly I think Tim said it earlier or Flo said it earlier like she's done enough to be able to be given a bit of time I feel and the number of injuries that Spurs have had the chance to go into another window and sign some players we're going to see how much the board is really backing her, I think, in this January transfer window and whether they do go all out for a player like Beth England or an alternative.

She's probably the closest to moving on if you were going to pick one out, but I can't see it happening. She's a good manager. She just needs a bit of time. She needs the right signing. She needs a bit of luck. And I think the rest of rule is secure enough.

We have to move on to the draw for the fourth round of the FA Cup was made yesterday. Stand out fixture for this one, Flo, Chelsea-Liverpool. The only team Chelsea have lost to this season. Feels very exciting. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? That is the one that when I looked at the fixtures, I was like, oh yeah be that'll be a tasty fixture because you feel like chelsea will want to get revenge as well for that opening day loss um i did also see one of the fixtures that i was a bit tired i didn't read it properly and it said london city or portsmouth and i thought it said london city of

portsmouth and i was like oh this is a new team where where are they based are they a london team i was very excited for them and then realized that it was either or but yeah Chelsea Liverpool's the fixtures to look for isn't it yeah Arsenal have drawn Leeds United or Stoke Tim um may be an opportunity to to rest some players particularly bearing in mind what we've been talking about this pod yeah yeah I think so I think whichever one of those teams it is you you back back Arsenal to win reasonably comfortably. That said, WSL teams don't have massive academies or anything like that, so it's difficult really to rotate too heavily. And obviously we'll have to see what state the squad's in, but yeah, you'd think so. the standout tie though I think is hashtag united against Coventry United and I think the reason for that is obviously Coventry United are going really badly in the championship they're gonna go down I don't think they have a point this season so hashtag united um you know I have to confess I'm

not entirely sure what level they're really at because I've never seen them play but there just could be potential for hashtag united to be in the fifth round of the women's fa cup so as much as they probably wanted a wsl team they've probably got a reasonable chance of making an upset here hashtag big upset is that the biggest upset suzy where where else might we see a hashtag upset i think that is the biggest upset upset and it would it would be tasty I mean I interviewed a couple of players from Hashtag United I want to say last season maybe the season before they were only founded in 2020 and it was after you know the team was taken over and they decided they needed a women's team and they have invested quite a decent amount of money and time into the team and have really kind of tried to treat it as similarly to the men's

as they feel is fair which is how fair is fair is always a question in any club set up but they've done a pretty good job at cementing that team's position and yeah I think that for me is the tastiest tie you don't see upsets in women's football um very often um I think that's the most likely given the position I think um Ipswich Town against um Lewis or London Bees is another nice tie because Ipswich doing so well um should have been promoted like season on season on season um the way that the promotion into the championship is done is just bitterly cruel that only one team can go up from two separate leagues and there's a whole bunch of really really good national league sides that are pushing for champions at places so seeing a a team like that, which has so much young, attacking English talent,

you know, they're a real pathway team, going up against a Lewis or a London Bees, depending on who wins that tie, is a really, really nice one for me. And from the FA Cup to the Champions League, bearing in mind we do have three Arsenal fans on today's podcast. Very quickly, how are you all feeling about Arsenal-Leon on Thursday night?

Go for it, Susie. Terrified. Not because I don't think we can win that game. I think Arsenal can win that game. It's more that I think Leon really have a point to prove and are going to come really, really seriously on a mission. They've got loads of injuries. They've been struggling to get the performances

maybe worthy of a team that's won the Champions League on so many different occasions. But yeah, I am terrified because they are going to come with a real mission. That's not the right word. I can't think of the right words. My head's gone. Je ne sais quoi.

Je ne sais quoi. Je ne sais quoi. Tim, quick one. Yeah, I think the thing about this is Lyon need the result a lot more than Arsenal, which I think could have a bearing on the game. They've all got some players back since the 5-1 in October. So Delphine Cascarino is back. Vanessa Giles at centre-half, which I think was a big part of the reason they lost was their defence was in disarray.

So, yeah, this is a peculiar one for Arsenal because they only need to draw to top the group and to not lose by five goals to go through and I think that's a weird position to be in for this game but Lyon really need the points. Flo? Yeah I'm just relishing it like Lyon need the points you know they've got to come and try and win. So I think it'll be a good game. And yeah, as we say, it doesn't matter too much if Arsenal lose, as long as they don't lose by more than five goals. Okay, brilliant stuff. That's everything from us this week.

Tim, been a pleasure. My pleasure as always. Thank you. Flo, brilliant pod debut. Thank you. Susie Rack, see you soon. Good to have you back. Thanks very much.

We'll all be back in January after the WSL's winter break. 2023 is going to kick off with a bang as Chelsea visit Arsenal at the Emirates. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Lucy Oliver and Jessie Parker-Humphreys. Music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Sal Ahmed. This is The Guardian. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack,

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