The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Chelsea’s Champions League dreams dashed – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

Faye Carruthers is joined by Sophie Downey, Emma Sanders and Chris Slegg to discuss the second legs in the Women’s Champions League semi-finals, the weekend’s WSL action and focus on Crystal Palace’s ascent

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starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. And what a week it's been as well as a record. Stamford Bridge crowd saw Chelsea knocked out of the Champions League in controversial circumstances with Emma Hayes describing Khadija Buchanan's sending off as one of the worst decisions in the history of the competition. While Chelsea ended their European journey for another season,

Manchester City extended their lead at the top of the WSL table, confirming Bristol City's relegation in the process. They'll be replaced by Crystal Palace next season after they seal promotion from the Championship. We'll discuss all that, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel the only phone engineered by Google an official mobile phone of Arsenal Football Club

Liverpool Football Club and the England teams. Google Pixel's working with the FA, Arsenal FC and Liverpool FC to close the visibility gap between men's and women's football with the formation of Pixel FC, a collective of next-generation creators and presenters dedicated to covering the women's game. They'll have exclusive access to players, additional resources and content creation opportunities to give women's football the visibility it deserves. Search Google Store to find out more. What a panel we have today.

Sophie Downey, what a week. It's been a pretty big week, hasn't it? Lots and lots of football to get your head around. Yeah, very exciting this time of the season. Yeah, season yeah has been Emma Sanders have you managed to get any sleep not really but we did have a play-doh competition on our training day at work yesterday and honestly I've never felt so excited for anything it was like my moment everyone looked at me and I've just it's just yeah I feel so ready to attack the rest of the week honestly it was the best day ever could that be any more w1a yeah uh Chris leg have you come down from your

Spurs high yet women's obviously Spurs high is we've got heights yet to come I mean I cannot believe it that we are yeah a couple of weeks away less than that now from an FA Cup final which before that quarterfinal against Man City would never have dreamed that that was are a couple of weeks away, less than that now, from an FA Cup final, which before that quarterfinal against Man City, would never have dreamed that that was even a possibility. But I want to know, I've been at the BBC my entire career and I've never had a Play-Doh competition. So what am I missing out on, hey? We need to make that mandatory.

If Emma's getting that, I don't know why we're not having that in my department. I think we're all missing out. I think next pod that we're all on, I'll get some plate. Will that work on Zoom? I don't know. I mean, I don't think these away days with Play-Doh kind of work in this, you know, work from home era, if you can't quite make the meeting. That's not the reason Susie Rack's not on this week. She's not very well, so we're sending all of our love to Susie. I mean, I don't think she can possibly be off until after the FA Cup final. I don't think we're going to allow her that. It's so cheeky. Anyway, listen, the fairy tale is over for Chelsea.

Emma Hayes' final chance of lifting the coveted Champions League trophy as Chelsea manager is no more. Her side fell short against European champions Barcelona again. A red card, missed opportunities and an improved Barca side proved their downfall in front of a record crowd at Stamford Bridge. It finished in the end. Chelsea nil, Barcelona two on the night. So Barcelona progressed 2-1 on aggregate.

Itana Bonmati opening up the scoring through a deflected strike after 25 minutes. Chaos then descended in the second half, though, when Khadija Buchanan was shown two yellow cards in the space of four minutes, leaving Chelsea down to 10. They rallied, though, but a contentious penalty decision then saw Fridolina Roffa sent her team into the final from the spot. So we'll get into the controversial decisions from the referee very shortly, but Chelsea did have their chances hitting the woodwork twice.

What did you make of the performance? Where did it all go wrong? I think it's a really tough one for Chelsea to take because they have come so close and I think they have closed that gap on Barcelona when you think about where they were three years ago in that final in Gothenburg where they got absolutely 4-0 defeat in that one. So I think the fact that they have

drawn it close will be the endless frustration for Emma Hayes at this moment in time. I think they weren't as tight on the day as they were the week before. You know, you can look at the referee decisions and we will do, but there was, you know, they were losing the ball in places they shouldn't be losing the ball. They were being a bit careless with it. They didn't have quite the same energy and guts, I guess, against a Barcelona team who were much more improved than the week before. They really struggled in terms of being perfect. Emma Hayes has said it before the game,

you need to be perfect against Barcelona. They are the best team in the world for the reason they won't perform that badly for two games in a row. So you have to be really prepared for them to come at you. And I think their ball retention will be the most frustrating thing for Emma Hayes. They had their chances, yeah, and they had really good chances,

but that's part of being perfect as well. You have to take them when they come to it. And I think when Melanie Lupo's hit the bar in the first half and then when Nuskin hit the post in the second half, I was literally standing behind the goal at that point. And I saw it click the post and I was like, they're not going to win this game. You know when you get a feeling that it's just not going their way.

And that was before even the red card kind of happened. So it makes sort of things. Yes, going down to 10 definitely does not help either. And I thought they played pretty well with 10 players, to be honest. They had their chances, but it's always going to be a mountain to climb against a Barcelona team who are so good at winning and so good at reaching Champions League finals. Yeah, sometimes you just know it's not your day, don't you? And there's nothing more frustrating than that. But there was another kind of clear difference Chris really from last week's

victory in Spain no Mayra Ramirez who was a real handful for the Barcelona defenders and Chelsea have been hit so hard by injuries this season particularly in that area how much do they miss her on Saturday yeah obviously they're already missing Sam Kerr and then you take Ramirez out he was great in the first leg great at running in behind and kind of manipulating the press. So Chelsea then had to come into this game and play in a different way and move Lauren James into a different position. And she handled it really well, actually. She played well in that role.

But I mean, does Barcelona just have that experience of finding a way to win, don't they? The same way that Chelsea do in the WSL, Barcelona now have that, as do Lyon in Europe. And you've got a Tana Balmati who's the Ballon d'Or winner, who scores the equaliser, wins the penalty, just a player of the absolute highest quality. And you really feel for it because as journalists and neutrals,

we've got that narrative, that fairy tale. We see Chelsea win away and it just feels like, yeah, this is kind of written in the stars. And you've got Stamford Bridge sold out, which is amazing. I remember being there when they played Wolfsburg back in 2016,

the first time they held a Champions League game at Stamford Bridge. And in the media, we gave it the big up. And I think there was only about 4,000 people turned up. And that felt really deflating at the time. For Emma Hayes to have that moment, I know the result isn't at all what she would have wanted but to kind of have her final game at Stamford Bridge sold out taking on the European champions as they were and perhaps are going to be

again but yeah it is fine margins you know decisions which might not have gone that way have gone that way players of the highest highest quality quality in the opposition and injuries that, despite their huge squad, have counted against Chelsea. Yeah, 10 times that number from that Wolfsburg game eight years later, which is just brilliant, especially because there have been question marks over attendances at Stamford Bridge. They did such a brilliant job,

the marketing department at Chelsea, with this one. Look, we've delayed it for long enough, Emma, but let's talk officiating, shall we? Lots of frustration with the performance of referee Juliana Dimitrescu, in particular that decision to show Buchanan a second yellow card. This is what Emma Hayes had to say. I was surprised when I saw her selected. She's known for soft cards. That was probably the worst decision in UEFA Women's Champions League history. I'm gutted for the players. We were robbed. What did you make of those comments? Were they justified? What did you make of the referee's performance? Yeah, I mean, certainly when the comments were made in the media conference, I think I was sat next to Kit Graham from The Times and we both

actually let out a gasp. And it's just because you don't usually hear those, you know, hard-hitting, genuine comments from managers that often. But clearly she was very upset. You know, I actually asked her afterwards. I said to her, you look, you look close to tears. I asked her about her emotions and she just couldn't hide it. And in that moment, it kind of all came out. So I think the comments themselves, I was obviously shocked at, but I could completely understand why. I think both decisions were very harsh.

You know, no matter who you support, if they go against you, you'll always feel hard done by to have two in one game, especially as, you know, Chris has rightly said, against players like Aitana Bomati, who was just fantastic. Once again, she always is. I think every time I've watched her live, she's one player of the match, which is ridiculous. When you have players of that quality in the opposition and then you get those kind of

decisions go against you, it's just really, really difficult. And I think I wrote after the first leg that everything went Chelsea's way in terms of their fortunes. Obviously, they put in a brilliant performance as well. I don't think they did much wrong across the two legs, but you have to be perfect against Barcelona. They weren't quite perfect in the second leg and then they didn't have that luck in the second leg. And to beat a side like Barcelona, you need all of that to go your way. So, you know, when I first saw Khadija's second yellow, I actually didn't think it was as contentious as people made out because I thought, you know, she's coming high on the follow through.

But actually, the more and more times you watch it, the more harsh it looks. So I can completely understand why Emma was frustrated afterwards. But, you know, like I say, I think over the course of the two legs, I think a 2-1 aggregate result in favour of Barcelona is probably just about right. It's just difficult when, as Emma rightly said, you feel feel like you're not you haven't been given an opportunity to compete 11 v 11 and I think if Chelsea had been given that opportunity you just don't know what could happen the fact that they hit the woodwork twice there's nothing to say that they wouldn't have gone and nicked a goal and you know in front of that sold out crowd at Stamford Bridge who knows football isn't always won by the better team. And, you know,

Chelsea could have gone on and won that game. You just never know. And I think it's just a real shame for everyone that we weren't given that opportunity to see those two teams play for 11 v 11 for the full 19 minutes or beyond that. Yeah, I agree. I mean, look, there was a lot of talk pre-match, Soph, about a kind of wounded Barcelona being a dangerous animal, if you like. And they were much improved. Everybody's mentioned Aitana Bonmati. But actually, their manager, Jonathan Heraldes, made one change, bringing in Lucy Bronze and pushing Rolfo further up the pitch. How much of a difference did that make?

I think it did make a difference because it allowed Rolfo to show her a true attacking ability. You know, we see her too much, I think, at that kind of left-back role for Barcelona. And she's really good at it and she can add so much speed down that left-hand side. But I think when you push her up into attack, that's when it really comes into its own. And I think the fact that they were able to stretch Chelsea even more down those flanks with Graham Hansen on the other side, Ralfo on that side. It just gave them something different to think about from the first leg where they actually managed those two pretty well in terms of the wing-backs

and combining with the three centre-backs. So it gave Chelsea something different to think about when they had set up themselves in the same kind of system. So they might not have been expecting it as well because they probably expected maybe the we were kind of I was talking about it and I was kind of expecting maybe Salma not to be starting the number she was straight down the middle again and I think she had had pretty poor game in that first leg she really is much better on the wide areas I think so that was where I was expecting the change to be so it probably surprised a lot of people people, I think, that that didn't happen in that one. But they were much improved.

They are Barcelona. The way they pass the ball and can control possession and just kind of smother it out of you, you know, they kind of can just control that passing play. And I think towards the end, the way that they managed the game was, you know, pretty spot on in terms of what champions can do. Yeah, absolutely. And we know that Emma Hayes is a champion but the Champions League is the one trophy that saluted her Chris they've reached four European semi-finals one final during her 12 years in charge and falling short is gonna inevitably hurt but how much can she actually take from the progress the club has made under her leadership? I mean, even one of those is what you mentioned back in 2016 against Wolfsburg.

Well, she can take so much, but I don't think she will right now. I mean, she's been quite bravely open about how the Champions League was the one and that's what she wanted this season more than any other season. And you almost feel like that did begin to get in the way of her thinking and perhaps the players thinking over this last few weeks of you know every competition coming thick and fast you've got a continental cup final which you lose to Arsenal you've got an FA Cup semi-final which you would never have imagined really that they were going to lose that certainly in the way that they did to Manchester United and then it becomes all about

the Champions League and the WSL and here they are now with six points to make up with those two owners in hand but Fran Kirby said didn't she after the game her legacy is not defined by by one game and that is so true but right now it's hard to to take comfort from that and she does you know the frustrations have come out in her recent press conferences. She does seem to have a different mindset. I do think perhaps she has been feeling the pressure of trying to end on the highest of possible highs and to move into possibly the highest profile job in women's football with even more silverware under her belt. It just feels like she's felt like a different person over the last month or so. I think so.

I'm not one of the journalists who follows her as closely now as many do, but I've been interviewing her since back in 2012, 2013, and going to some of those very first Champions League matches when they were playing at Wheatsheaf Park, Staines Football Club's ground. And she just seems a bit different. I just wonder if the enormity of ending this job that has defined her you know career and moving into such a high profile job is just playing on her mind a bit and um coming down to it as Emma said the best team did win that tie and I I personally think the decisions were harsh but they're not outrageous decisions

they're decisions that can go that way. I think that was a booking, a harsh booking. I think the penalty was very, very soft, but it is one that sadly can be given and that no VAR is going to go, oh, that is an enormous error. We're going to overrule it. That just isn't going to happen. So harsh decisions, but I don't think they were outrageous decisions. Yeah, it's really difficult, isn't it? You know, really important as well, I think, to note, because we were talking about this before the pod as well, and similar kind of circumstance going on with Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool. But I think it's really important that we remember that Emma Hayes only lost her dad less than six months ago, additionally, and then you've got all of this stress going on. So I'm not surprised that it's manifesting in other ways.

And she has got the one title left to win. Chelsea still competing for the Barclays WSL, Emma. Just quickly, they travel to Liverpool on Wednesday night. How do they refocus? And does that disappointment on Saturday night play into Manchester City's hands bearing in mind as Chris said they've got that six points to to catch up? I personally don't think it will have any bearing I do think Chelsea are very good at separating competitions and I know that they

will go it's game by game but personally I don't think they do that I do think they get sucked into individual competitions so I think you, preparing for the Champions League semi-final was different. I interviewed Minnie Bright that week and she sort of kind of let slip and ruined the PR line that they almost did kind of put more into training that week because they knew it was a big game. And I think that's human nature.

You know, you're more excited, you're more emotional for games like that. So I think actually their away game against Liverpool back in the WSL is back to the grind, the weekly run-of-the-mill matches that they're used to. And I think the mindset will switch and they will almost calm down and just go back to normal because that is the routine. That's the games that they play week in, week out. And I know that might sound quite abstract, but I don't think it will really faze them. I think they will just get back to it.

You know, look, this is not an easy game. This is the Liverpool side who have had a fantastic season, who are fifth in the league, who have had very, very good recent games against Chelsea. So I think it's important to remember that as well. And Chelsea will know that, you know, they will remember the defeat that they had at the first game of last season. So I think, you know, it will be a tough game and I think they will be prepared for that.

Yeah, absolutely. Another tough game was the other Champions League semi-final. Lyon saw off PSG at Parc de France. It finished PSG 1, Lyon 2 on the night, which was 5-3 on aggregate in Lyon's favour. It reignites one of the most eye-catching rivalries in the game as Barcelona and Lyon come face-to-face in the final in Bilbao on May the 25th. Sophie, it's absolutely mouth-watering. Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait for this one. It is two heavyweights of the European game coming head-to-head. Two titans, as it were. They have this rivalry they've met in two finals so far. Lyon have won both of them.

So that's going to be one for Barcelona to correct. But they are the best team in the world, as we've alluded to before. And you can't probably see past them, I think. My head says Barcelona but Lyon has this uncanny knack of winning football games especially in Europe they've won the title eight times a record eight times so yeah it's going to be fascinating I'm going to be in Bilbao and I can't wait to see what happens. Oh rub that in why don't you? I'm so jealous. Chelsea letting us all down for our little trip away. Absolutely unbelievable. Listen, while Europe's elite were battling it out, domestically Manchester

City took full advantage of having another game in hand over Chelsea in the Barclays WSL. A comfortable 4-0 win over Bristol City at Ashton Gate extended their lead at the top of the table to six points and confirmed the Robins relegation. It was Manchester City's first game without Bunny Shaw as well. She's out for the season after suffering a foot injury against West Ham. Chris, could you tell in any way that it affected their fluidity in attack, especially maybe in the first half? And how do you think they're going to adapt and will it be be a worry for them with Arsenal up next? I thought it was going to be a real worry for you know a player she's got 20 goals for two seasons in a row which is very very rare that that happens in the WSL and it looked

like they were struggling without her in that first half and you know for Bristol City give them credit to hold out to the 62nd minute but Mary Mary Fowler, I mean, what a shot, what a goal. And in the second goal as well, just showing a kind of different side to her game as well and latching onto that with a really fine finish. I actually heard Aitona Bomati saying in the build-up to that Champions League game, an interview with her, she highlighted Mary Fowler as the player

who impressed her most at the World Cup last summer, which kind of surprised me a bit. But she obviously can see the quality. I mean, we can all see the quality, but that second-half performance gives you the confidence that perhaps she can step up in Bunny Shaw's absence. I would go as far as to say if Bunny Shaw was still fit, I'd make Manchester City marginal favourites to win the title. As soon as you heard

she's going to miss those final three games as it was I started to think I'd put it Chelsea's way slightly more but the way that City played in that second half and to hear Gareth Taylor's comments about he said it was all down to the body language and it spoke to the players about that at half time and it certainly made a difference didn't it and well it's going to be a fascinating last couple of weeks of the WSL. Yeah it is and Bristol City would have hoped that they would be fighting until the end but not to be heartbreak for them Emma they dropped straight back down into the championship just the one win all season which actually doesn't really tell the full story of their campaign, to be honest.

But where did it all go wrong for Lauren Smith and her team? Yeah, well, I think where it went wrong was that they didn't pick up a single point at home. You know, obviously, they've still got two games to play. I think at least one of them is at home. So there is a chance still. But I think when you're in that position and, you know, they were always going to be battling near the bottom of the table table I don't think it came as a surprise to anyone they were one of two clubs not affiliated with the men's men's premier league side obviously Leicester now are

congratulations to their men's side for getting promoted to the premier league but I think financially it meant Bristol City were always going to struggle to compete with those around them and I think the January transfer window was where it turned in that relegation battle. Obviously, West Ham brought in some big players with huge experience, and I think that's taken them over the line. Everton have obviously had an injury crisis. I don't think they're, in terms of the quality in the squad, are anywhere near that kind of bottom of the table.

And I think that the quality has showed, and they've managed to move away quite comfortably. And yeah, sort of Brighton again, I think Mikey Harris has done a brilliant interim stint there. So I think Bristol City were always going to find it difficult and they just couldn't, they couldn't do the job at home. And I think that's what's really let them down. But as you say, it doesn't tell the full story. You know story you know a very very young inexperienced squad with lots of potential lots of talent they play some really good football as Chris rightly said you know they managed to hold out Manchester City for 60 second minutes and yes City had chances that they missed which if Bunny Shaw had been playing they probably you know could have been two nil down at half time

but Bristol City really looked organised and really, you know, played well. So credit to them. And Lauren Smith, I think, is a fantastic young coach. And, you know, I would be very, very confident with her in charge back in the Championship, which is a really tough league. But I think Bristol City have got a lot there that will give them confidence that they can challenge and come back into the WSL. Yeah, the home point is really interesting, isn't it? Because the club issued a statement straight away announcing continued support for the women's team

and confirming that they're going to continue to play at Ashton Gate next season. I think there were 9,000 there at the weekend weren't there. So that's hopefully going to carry on developing that fan base, which has obviously been a real success story this season. And in fact, their average home attendance has been over 7,000, which is the fifth highest in the WSL, which is some feet. Gavin Marshall, who's the CEO of Bristol Sport Group, also reiterated the faith he has in Lauren Smith as well,

saying Lauren has our full backing and we firmly believe she's the best person to help us replicate last year's achievements of winning the championship and returning to the Women's Super League. Sophie, how important

is that support going to be as they look to rebuild? And is there a problem with the stadium? Is it just that they're just not used to playing there particularly? And next season with that fan base already built, they'll be in more familiar surroundings, perhaps? Would that be fair to say? To answer your first question that I think is absolutely crucial, when you look

at what happened to, say, Reading last year in comparison, you know, pretty much as soon as they got relegated, they got turned into a part-time model, part-time outfit, and it kind of not destroyed the club, but kind of really set it back in terms of where they were going, in terms of what Kelly Chambers had built there. So the fact that they came out straight away and issued their support, it is known that Bristol have less finances than most teams, all of the teams in the division. I'm not going to count Leicester City in this

because I think they're a particular case where they dropped down to the championship and now obviously they're going back to the Premier League. So Bristol City are now, were the only pretty much club not funded by a Premier League outfit. And that means that they had a mountain to climb any way, right? So they have to be creative. I think what they've done off the pitch is absolutely fabulous you know their whole ethos is about being a community club

they are the heart of their community honestly match days at Ashton Gate were one of my favorite this season so fun so entertaining uh whether it's like uh rolling the inflatable apples at halftime or the the music in the in or just the general, like, food stands outside. They really put on a show for the people who were coming to the games and really, you know, made you want to come back again and again and again. So I think they've really delivered on that. In terms of the home form, I'm not sure. Lauren Smith has been asked about this a lot in press conferences

over the last six months. And she says she doesn't really think it's a problem. She thinks, well, the only thing she might think, I think, is what she's alluded to, is that when other teams come to Ashton Gate, they play better because of the surroundings and the stadium, because it is a fantastic place to come.

But I don't think she was too worried about their home form as such, even though, as Emma says, it was a key in their kind of downfall this year. I think the other problem they've had this year is that they've had to rely on a lot of young players. You know, they have fielded the youngest average age in the league all season. They've given the most amount of minutes to teenagers this season. And their key, like, experienced players have had those injuries, which have kept them out for big periods of time so you're looking at the likes of Rachel Furness bought in signed a long-term contract a full contract in in the

summer and and then gets injured in you know the first couple of months and basically doesn't come back until about four weeks ago or three weeks ago so her kind of experience Abby Harrison the same you know Fran Bentley picked up a knee injury the number one goalkeeper in the first six weeks of the season things just haven't gone their way in that respect and they've had to rely so much on their young players which I think when they go down to the championship will serve them really well because those young players if they can hold on to them will have the experience of WSL football that a lot of people in the championship don't have despite the finances that is coming to that division so hopefully they can use that kind of experience to serve them pretty well in that rebuild yeah wish them the very very best of

luck right that's it for part one in part two we'll look at the rest of the WSL action from the weekend and look back on Crystal Palace's title winning season as the championship comes to an end. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Right, let's take you through the rest of the weekend's WSL results. And the Barclays WSL has a new star, as Everton came from behind to earn a one-all draw with Arsenal. 16-year-old Izzy Hobson's dreams came true as she headed home in the 95th minute to cancel out Alessia Russo's opener. It was a result that ended any lingering hopes of a late Arsenal charge for the title.

We'll talk about them in a second, Emma, but it was such a special moment for the youngster, wasn't it? She becomes the youngest goalscorer in WSL history at the age of 16. She's a lifelong Evertonian and an academy graduate as well. I mean, they've produced plenty of brilliant young talents over the years, Everton, but how crucial is this pathway to them going forwards and how impressed were you with her? Yeah, I was going to say, I think Everton have had such a great history of producing young players

and I think the know the one that that shouts out really is is Grace Clinton I know that you know other clubs have have done a lot on her development but Everton played a very very crucial part in that and yeah I think they've got a fantastic environment for those youngsters we know Liverpool as a city is a hub for football talent anyway and Everton seem to be the ones that are really embracing that I think Brian Sorensen has come in and given young players an opportunity to you know he spoke at length in his first season when he brought in the likes of Aggie Beaver-Jones from Chelsea on loan and obviously Jess Park on loan for Manchester City and he said I want to develop young talent and he certainly did that

with those low knees and look at what they've gone and done having returned to their parent clubs but Everton's academy has always had young players breaking into the first team Izzy is the latest with those low knees and look at what they've gone and done having returned to their parent clubs. But Everton's academy has always had young players breaking into the first team. Izzy is the latest one. And yes, there's been a lot more opportunities this season because of their injury crisis. I'm sure Brian wouldn't have maybe wanted to field as many youngsters as consistently as he's had to.

But he trusts them. And you know what? He lets them make mistakes. He lets them play with freedom and shine. And I think Izzy has obviously picked up some minutes this year and that was her moment. And what a way to score as well, 95th minute against, you know, an Arsenal side who, as you say, up until recently were in that title race.

You know, this isn't just her coming on and scoring an equaliser against a bottom of the table side like Bristol City this is this is a big a big big opponent so fantastic scenes for her you could see the what it meant to her on her face you know as soon as she scored she was she was you know running away arms outstretched um it was just fantastic and I think there's more to come from her because as I say you know she wasn't complete unknown. We knew that she had talent anyway, and that will just give her such confidence. Yeah, football's about those moments, isn't it? Leila has asked us on X, Sophie,

given Everton's outstanding draw against Arsenal, who's your best academy youngster of the season? Oof. Oof, that's really a tough question. I guess one of the obvious ones would be Aggie Beaver-Jones just the way that she's broken out at Chelsea this season but I don't know if she counts because she has been on two loan spells so that might be a bit of a cheeky one for me I think if you look at like Leicester City you've got Denny Young Denny Draper there scored her first WSL goal

against Bristol City a few weeks back she is one of the bright young spots coming through the English pathway, one to definitely watch out for. And then I think when you look down into the Championship, there's been players who have been really young, who have got really good minutes under their belts. So you look at Lexi Potter, she's been at Crystal Palace this season, complete stalwart in that midfield. She comes from Chelsea's academy, obviously,

and will go back at the end of the season. But there are players like her who are performing week in week out in that in that championship area that we should be really excited for when they come back to their senior their their parent clubs at the end of the year and then you also have to look at maybe not catching their eye quite as much but when the likes of Vivian Lear and Katie Reid are given their debuts for Arsenal that's no mean feat right in a team who are you know full of stars and battling for competitions and titles and for the youngsters to begin from their academy to be given a chance and shown a pathway I think that's key and I think you saw the smile on Katie Reid's face and Leah Williamson's

face when they made that substitution a few weeks back. And you could just tell what it meant for players coming on for their parent clubs. And, you know, it shows them they've got every chance of succeeding. So the main thing is not to rush them as well. That's the main thing. We can get all excited when they score a goal like Izzy did at the weekend, but it will take time. There will be peaks and troughs, I think, in their careers.

But I have to say, I do a lot of the English youth level games and I've never been more excited by the talent coming through than I am right now. Under-17s are absolutely unbelievable. So, yeah, lots to come, I think, from them. Brilliant. Very exciting times. Disappointment for Arsenal on the road again, though, lots to come, I think, from them. Brilliant. Very exciting times. Disappointment for Arsenal on the road again, though, Chris. They had their chances, wasteful with them yet again.

Caitlin Ford and Victoria Palova missing sitters. How do they recover ahead of facing Manchester City next weekend? Yeah, and I think the frustrating thing for them as well is that, you know, we usually think of the WSL being decided in the meetings between the big three but they they beat Manchester City at home in November they beat Chelsea at home just before Christmas but they lost to Liverpool Tottenham and West Ham most surprisingly of all so also drawn against Manchester United right at the beginning of the season which you know wasn't such a surprise at the time come Manchester United coming off the back of the great season that they

had before. Lost to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge when you started to think, oh, they're really the outsiders now in the title race. But then this one, another unexpected dropping of points where you just really wouldn't have thought of anything other than an Arsenal win going into that game. And as a neutral, it's a bit of a shame

because I really thought a few weeks back, probably until that Stamford Bridge game, that we were going to have three teams in it right until the very end of it. But their chances were pretty much over before the weekend and now they're mathematically over too. And it was down to wastefulness in front of goal really at the weekend. I know Arsenal have had a lot of injuries too. Miedema and me didn't come back until just before Christmas.

Williamson too. And they've had so many injuries to contend with. But yes, it's a shame that that challenge petered out earlier than many of us expected it was going to. Yeah, it feels as if a lot of teams have had a lot of challenges with injuries this season, though, and particularly at Everton, Brian Sorensen bringing another list of absentees to his pre-match press conference. It's like a roll call when he reads them out, isn't it? It's still, though, Sophie, a really big show of resilience from them in front of a sold-out Walton Hall Park. It was a performance, I think, that epitomised their season.

They've been up against it so long, for so much of the season. I mean, their injury woes have been, quite frankly, ridiculous. You know, the amount of players that have been out throughout the season and, you know, he'll come in one week and say, oh, it's looking brighter. And then the next week he's like, no, it's back to being pretty bad again. So I think that's just kind of also where the club is at the moment. You know, they don't have the finances. They didn't really get in any one of experience in the transfer window. They are sort of constricted by what's happening on the men's side of the game as well.

And I think he's done really well with what he's had in front of him. I think the really key thing is they have a good identity. You know, when Aurora Ghali is playing centre mid one week and then right back the other week and then left back the next week she knows exactly what's expected of her so even though it's probably really tricky going from different position to different position she understands the way that they're playing and the way that he wants them to play so I guess that helps a bit but I do think it is quite remarkable you know the performances that they've managed to put in and at times you know they've been a bit hard done by the results.

You know, a few chances here and there that go in, a few more clinical finishes, and they could have a few more points on the board and finishing in the top half of the table. So I think it would be a season to reflect on for Brian Sorensen going into the new year. I think he'll be disappointed about where they are on the table, but I think that just tells one part of the story.

And they've got so many positives to take out of the kind of grit and character that they've built over the last eight months or so. Yeah. Another team, I'm not sure how they're going to reflect on this season, really. Manchester United. They've opened up a three-point gap over Liverpool in that battle to finish fourth. It was a narrow 1-0 victory away to Leicester in the end. And Mark Skinner's side dominated the game, but they were mostly kept out by a strong performance from Janina Leipzig in goal.

She was superb and it actually took a special long-range finish from Ella Toon to give United all three points. They created plenty, Chris, but again, just lacked a cutting edge, didn't they? How much of a worry is that going to be ahead of the FA Cup final? How much of a worry do you want it to be? I can't really call it the FA Cup final. You know, they met in the WSL last weekend and finished in a draw.

And I feel that Mark Skinner, the whole season, really, whether it is deemed a success or not, hinges now on the FA Cup final. I think he was probably ahead of schedule, I think, last season, a bit like Carla Ward at Aston Villa. And I think they both found it hard to live up to that. Again, they went out of the Champions League straight away, Manchester United. They've not had the same level of consistency

that they had in the league last season. Obviously, they lost Rousseau. They've had the uncertainty with the Mary Earps contract situation rumbling on in the background. But think if he finishes this this season if they can hold off the challenge of liverpool i think that certainly means a lot between the fans of both clubs the manchester united certainly want to finish ahead of liverpool and finish as a top four club even though top four doesn't bring champions league in the women's game of course it needs to be top three but if you can finish in fourth and win the FA Cup final,

I think you've got to call that a success. I know a lot of Manchester United fans disagree and they look at the size of the club and they feel that they should be ahead. The women's team should be ahead of where they are. But yeah, I think that the FA Cup final, I hope, is going to be as close and as dramatic as a league meeting a couple of weeks back.

I think it's a really hard one to call as close and as dramatic as a league meeting a couple of weeks back I think it's a really hard one to call as a Spurs fan I hope that Becky Spencer should she should she play I think she will has the same sort of performance as uh Janina Leipzig did um Spencer has been having some great performances recently as well so but Leipzig what a signing and what a season she's had I know she missed a bit of it through injury as well, but eight saves at the weekend. I mean, she really is a quality goalkeeper and Leicester did really well to get hold of her. Yep, they did. And they've troubled United this season, haven't they? Earning a draw away from home in the reverse fixture as well. They had their chances. Yuka Mimiki hitting the post, probably the best of the bunch, showing how far they've come this season, Emma.

Yeah, you know what? I was about to mention Yuka Mimiki because I just absolutely love watching her play. I think she's been fantastic and she was so good on the weekend. And I think she was so unfortunate, actually, not to get something. You know, there was that moment where the ball came across to her.

I think it was a Missy Goodwin shot that was sort of, you know, half saved by Mary Earps, fell to Mimiki and she hit the post and it came back. And Lena Peterman was about a yard or so out and the spin of the ball just took it away. And I still don't know how that didn't go in. And, you know, Man United could have found themselves 1-0 down, should have found themselves 1-0 down, really.

But as you say, you know, they had chances missed. But Leicester always look like they've got something in them when they have a player like Mimiki. And I think, you know, what a signing. We talk about Janina Leipzig being a signing as well, but I think she's been fantastic. And obviously, I think it was only January that she came in as well. And to have settled in so quickly, I'm really looking forward to seeing what she does next season.

I actually wrote a piece about kind of more and more Japanese players and Asian players, but Japanese in particular, coming to the WSL. And I think we're starting to see why they're attracting so much interest from European clubs, because, you know, they're so technically gifted, they're so clever. And their movement, I think, is just fantastic. And yeah, I think we've seen some Japanese stars bring something else to the WSL. So hopefully we'll see more of them come because I think, you know, if they're anything like Mamiki, then yeah, exciting times. Yeah, we're in more of them come because I think, you know, if they're anything like Mimiki, then yeah, exciting times.

Yeah, we're in for a treat, aren't we? That's for sure. Two more games to get through quickly. It ended all square at Villa Park thanks to a 95th minute leveller from Shannon Cook. That all but ensured West Ham's safety ahead of Bristol City's late kickoff

while also ending Aston Villa's hopes of finishing sixth. It feels like a season to forget for both these teams, to be honest. The late header cancelled out Alicia Lehman's opener, by the way. That was her first league goal of the season. What did you make of this game as a whole, Soph? I think it pitamised both teams a little bit. You know, there were chances not taken.

I think that's been a theme with kind of the teams in the bottom half of the table you know they they are creating chances like what Emma was just saying about Leicester but they're just not having the experience to be clinical enough in those situations and West Ham had a few really good chances early on I think Joachim got hit it straight at the keep at Sophia Paul in the early minutes when you know either side of her it would have been a goal at Vivienne Asai as well headed over the bar or onto the bar when you know it was quite a clear headed that you could direct on target so and the same at the other end for Aston Villa as well Rachel Daly missing a header that you know you would probably put your money on on her scoring that so I think it yeah kind of sums up where they're both at. I think for West Ham,

the fact that they're safe is absolutely key, gives Rhian Skinner something to build with going into the new season. And Aston Villa, I think they will reflect a lot on this season. I asked Carla Ward before the game about what she'd learned and she said she'd learned the most

in these times of, you know, tricky times. I think it has to be said again, they are another team that have been ravaged by injury at points and the fact that they haven't had, you know, a midfield, many midfielders to call on in the second half of the year has really not helped them at all, especially after that really tough start.

And especially the selling of Laura Lincolner-Brown as well. You know, it's left them really light and they've had to solve problems and situations. So I think they'll reflect on it. Lots of learnings, but the fact that they're safe. I think a seventh place finish, I know she wanted sixth, but if they can get seventh, I think that will be a good marker after the kind of year that they've had.

You know, they're kind of solidifying a really good season last year. Finally, Tottenham maintain their unbeaten run after coming from behind to earn a one-all draw with Brighton. Bethany England rescuing a point for her team after Elizabeth Turland had fired the visitors ahead. Robert Williham has really had to tinker, hasn't he, Chris, with his attack in recent weeks. Celine Bizet, Martha Thomas, Andrew Spence all out with injury

and it's seen Jess Naz playing more centrally while England's kind of been used in a wider role. How much can they use these next couple of games as preparation for the Cup final which has been sewn into this podcast right from the beginning? I'm going to jinx it if we keep talking about it but

no, Villahan was really glowing in his praise of Jess Naz a couple of weeks back before that Manchester United game I was at his press conference and he was talking about how she can play right across that front line and it hinted at the fact that she might be taking up a more central role. She certainly showed her finishing prowess with that goal against Leicester in the FA Cup semi-final. The equaliser took that goal so well.

That was coming in from a wide position. She was playing more centrally this weekend but it is kind of all about the cup final now it's about getting these players fit you're missing martha thomas drew spence and celine bizette for that that bryson game and they've all been really important players this season and it's about trying to get them fit for the cup final top i've got to play everton this saturday in a midday kickoff and then they've got a full week to uh to prepare for that FA Cup final, the game in hand against Chelsea that was delayed, that's going to be after the FA Cup

final, which is, you know, from a scheduling perspective, that was great news when that new date was given because it gives the club a full week to prepare. But yeah, a decent point, but I think the minds of every fan and possibly every player really is all about that big day at Wembley. Yep, certainly is. Just a quick word on Elizabeth Turland. Emma, that was her 13th goal of the season for Brighton and only Bunny Shaw scored more in the league this year. Can they hang on to her?

Well, they need to, don't they? Because she's just been so ruthless this season. Like you say, 13 goals, seven of them have been away from home as well. I think that's really, really important for a team like Brighton so yeah it you know what and I think that was one of the differences between the two sides on the day was you know I think I described it as a tell of two strikers where Bethany England popped up and obviously got the important equalizer and we know how much of a goal scorer she is but kind of Brighton's goal sort of came from nothing really and Elizabeth Turland was just in the

right place at the right time. Fantastic header on a really, really good cross from Pauline Bremmer. And she'd come back into the side as well for Brighton. And she just had that ruthlessness and clinicalness. And yeah, I tell you what, I think there'll be a lot of people looking at Elizabeth Turland after the season that she's had. Yeah, for sure. Right, the Barclays Championship, the gift that kept on giving this season, it's come to an end. It's served up endless drama over the last eight months and has been just such a delight to follow.

But Crystal Palace were finally crowned champions in front of a record crowd at Selhurst Park on Sunday, securing promotion to the WSL next season. Look, we did touch on them last week, Chris, but just how good an achievement is this for Laura Kaminski's side? Yeah, I wouldn't have said they were going to win the title at the start of the season. Her first season, not only as Palace manager, but as a head coach in a senior role. I know she was head coach of England under-19s, but the players, everyone who knows her just speaks in glowing terms about she seems to be a real people person,

just have those real personal skills of getting the best out of players. And I think a lot of players there will have grown, have developed and have overachieved as individuals. And that's helped the club probably overachieve and win this promotion ahead of schedule. They didn't move top. They were top at the very start of the season and then they moved top, I think,

two or three games before the end. I mean, what a thrilling title race it was to have five teams in there at one point. Charlton, Sunderland, Southampton, Birmingham faded just at the end of March. For Palace to come out on top. And it's another club that has undergone just the most rapid evolution. I remember interviewing, meeting Gemma Bryan back,

it must have been 2018, 2019, a really talented goalscorer off the back of an incredible season, banging in goals for Crystal Palace. And she'd suffered, I think it was an ACL, it was a serious knee injury. And she was having to raise the money to pay for her own surgery and this just seemed astonishing that you know this was a club that was already under the wings of a men's Premier League club and then a story came out a few months later too

that every player was being asked to basically find their own sponsorship pay to play for the club and Wilf Zaha steps forward to kind of cover that funding. But they have now finally started to take the women's side of the club seriously. They're playing more games at Saylorhurst Park. They got their record crowd of just under 7,000 there at the weekend. It was just a real shame actually

that although they got to see the trophy lifted and promotion mathematically sealed, that it was a goalless draw because they've been banging in the goals for fun this season 55 of them i think that's like 16 more than the second in the division but it was um yeah a drab goalless draw at the weekend but at least there was a promotion party and it'll be interesting to see how they cope obviously you know with bristol city coming down and we've seen how tough they found it. It is still a huge, huge gulf and a lot is going to depend

on what sort of players they can bring in this summer, whether they can invest or whether they can use that loan system really cleverly and bring in some of those players from the really big clubs, young players from Chelsea, Arsenal,

perhaps who can loan players out in London. But yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see how they cope next season. Yeah, it is because there has been a little bit of turbulence off the pitch at Crystal Palace, I think it's fair to say. What are they going to need to do, Soph, over the summer to prepare for life in the WSL?

Yeah, that's the big question, isn't it? The big money question. I think money. The club have really stepped up well over the last season also you know they've gone to that full-time model um they've come closer to the men's side of things they train at the academy's training facilities I think the alignment of the two clubs have been really two sides of the club have really sort of merged together a bit more

I think you're right in that Laura is a really people person she is very I spoke to her after the game on Sunday and she was very much my people have what have made this happen you know I've got in the right people to do the right jobs both in play playing staff and in you know her staff around her so I think that would be key she'll need to find keep hold of the right people I think it would be interesting what will happen with the likes of like Lexi Potter I know I mentioned her earlier as a Chelsea Academy graduate. She obviously still needs minutes, but I think she proved herself this season in terms of what she did in that Palace midfield and whether they look to loan someone like her again, keep her at the club, keep her

within the same environment, but also her still being part of Chelsea as well. So it's going to be interesting. They're going to need to get experience in as well. I think that's what Bristol City showed this season, is that kind of lack of experience. And it will be crucial for maybe keeping Rhea Purcell, you know, would be a good... They took her on loan in January from Tottenham. Maybe keeping her, trying to sign her full-time.

That kind of experience is invaluable to that team because they're sort of the leaders on the pitch that help the staff in the background. They're all quite young as well, I think, the staff. So I think it's all going to be a big learning process. But you've got to feel they're in a pretty good spot if Steve Parrish and the ball kind of step up and commit to providing them more finances. Yeah, absolutely. Everything had been kind of settled before and commit to providing them more finances. Yeah, absolutely. Everything had been kind of settled before kick-off,

which is not what we were expecting on this rollercoaster of a season. But the final day still didn't disappoint, did it? Charlton beat Southampton 2-0 at the Valley. That meant that they secured second place. Sunderland finished in third with a goalless draw at Palace that we've just discussed. On their final day in the division, Watford pulled it out of the bag,

beating Reading by three goals to two. But fellow relegated side Lewis ran London City all the way, but ultimately lost 3-2 themselves. Elsewhere, Blackburn beat Sheffield United 3-1 and Durham edged past Birmingham City 1-0. And by the way, the cumulative attendance for both the Women's Super League and the Women's Championship passed one million for the 2023-24 season.

I mean, it had already been broken. The previous attendance record was 689,000 and was broken with 36 games left to play back in March. But I mean, I expect it's going to increase even further next season, Emma, with Newcastle United and Portsmouth both having their licences approved to join the Championship next season. Can we expect an even more competitive league? Yeah, I think so. I think the Championship now is more and more clubs are turning into that full-time model. More and more clubs are moving to bigger stadia, you know, not necessarily their main men's one, if you'd like to call it, but certainly bigger stadia. So, yeah, I expect more, you know, higher crowds in the championship, more competition, more investment, because at the end of the day, they have to try and close that gap in the WSL, which the WSL is growing, you know, each year.

So WSL is getting more and more, you know, money pumped into it. The crowds are getting bigger. There's more sponsorship deals. TV revenue, you would think, obviously, you know, the current one has been kind of moved over for another year. But you think when Nuko comes in, you would expect more money to come from TV broadcasts. So so yeah i think the top two tiers are growing alongside each other

and the the big thing for the championship is that the wcl probably is going to grow a quick a quicker rate and they have to try and keep up with that and that means every club i think in the second tier um within you know i personally think the next two years will have to be full-time to be able to compete in that league. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. A few bits of news to round up. Congratulations to AS Roma, who were crowned Serie A champions for the second year running on Friday night.

It's also a fond goodbye from the Republic of Ireland to Sinead Farrelly, who's announced her retirement from international football. The Gotham FC midfielder only made her debut for Ireland in April 2023 after making an incredible comeback to football, featured heavily, of course, in their World Cup campaign. Good luck to her. And just one for your radar as well. The US and Mexico have withdrawn their joint bid to host the 2027 Women's World Cup. I think many

of us thought that it was definitely going to go there, bearing in mind that the Men's World Cup is a triple bid with Canada joining them in 2026. But they've decided instead, the US and Mexico, that they're going to focus on securing the 2031 tournament. So that leaves Brazil rivaling the joint bid for Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands for 2027 instead. Quick couple of questions from our listeners as well. Robin asks, can you discuss the scourge that is goalkeepers faking injuries so managers can give team talks? Hannah Hampton went down 20 seconds after the red card. It's so boring to watch and it's rarely a genuine injury. I think players should be banned from going to benches during stoppages.

Who wants to take that? It is so frustrating, but I don't entirely know how you police it. I think it's a very hard thing because referees have to, obviously safety is paramount. And even though we know a lot of the time there is not a problem a referee is not there to make that judgment they've got to they've got to play as safe as possible so it is very frustrating i think next year that there's going to be trials isn't there um not in the top divisions regarding the restart you know there's a six second rule for goalkeepers which is not enforced at all at the moment and that is going to be extended to eight seconds and i think the referee is going to

count down with their fingers when it gets to five seconds so to try and hurry that side up with goalkeepers and that's going to be a trial to see whether it would be brought in throughout every division of the game but i don't know what you can do it is a scourge it's something that's become worse it's something that pretty much every single club does in pretty much every single game but I'm not entirely sure what an effective way but you need a much cleverer that's not not hard but you need a cleverer mind than me to work out how you effectively get rid of this. Okay let's ask the cleverer mind shall we in that case Sophie this is from Robert on X. Is it time to bring in a salary cap or some sort of cost control in the WSL, like what's being suggested in the Premier League?

I don't think so yet. I guess we have to be quite careful about the finances in women's football. But I do think the kind of salaries that these players are on are incomparable to the kind of salaries that are floating around on are incomparable to you know the kind of salaries that are floating around in the men's league and actually there should be higher if anything across the board you know other countries are starting to to pay their players really really well and Jonas Eidevaard has often talked about this season is that we have to start in this country thinking about you know those wages and the fact that you know they have to be lifted across the division.

It's pretty fine, probably, if you're an international player at an Arsenal or a Chelsea. But if you're a Bristol City player, the disparity in that is quite something. But that's not to say that the Arsenal or Chelsea players shouldn't be paid what they're being paid, because it's still quite low in terms of what we see around the football world. But it means that the other clubs need to kind of buck up and pay their players properly. And until we get to that kind of level with the lower down clubs where they're literally paying them enough to be able to play football

properly full time without being stressed, I think then we can start thinking about if it gets out of control. But until that point, we just need to make sure that that happens. Right, well, that is a good place to end, isn't it? It's been a pleasure to have you all. Emma Sanders, thank you. Thanks very much, guys. Bye, Chris Slegg.

Bye. I'm off to get the face paints and the flags ready for Wembley. Got a little bit of time yet, but I'm already very excited. Oh, my God, don't put the face paint on yet. It will be caked on your face. You'll be like taking it off with a trowel in two weeks time. Sophie Downey, always a delight. Thanks for having me.

Emma and I think are going to go off and plan our Brazilian World Cup summer. I knew that you would be sitting there thinking, give it to Brazil! Give it to Brazil! Keep having your say by sending in your questions via X or emailing us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com.

And as ever, a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts sign up in Tuesday's edition. Sophie Downey is going to be looking at Bristol City's relegation. Then on Thursday, Calvin Coamba-Chikengi

will explore the trend of Zambian national team players opting to join the Army and Air Force instead and the impact that will have on the sport in the country. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey

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