The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Emma Hayes news rocks the WSL and Arsenal beat City – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Faye Carruthers has Suzanne Wrack, Sophie Downey and Marva Kreel alongside her to reflect on the shock news that Emma Hayes is leaving Chelsea – plus all the fallout from another busy week of WSL action

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starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected, be Zen. This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Emma Hayes, Emma Hayes, Emma Hayes, that is all. No, some other stuff did happen this week, didn't it? Oh yeah, the football. We'll discuss that as well. Plus we'll take your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel, the only phone engineered by Google and official mobile phone of Arsenal Football Club, Liverpool Football Club and the England teams. Google Pixel is helping fans get closer to the game they love with access to fresh content and never-before-seen footage of their favourite players and teams. The new Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro are fast and secure, with the most advanced Pixel cameras yet.

And Google AI powers amazing features for photos and video, so you can get even closer to the game. Search Google Store to find out more. Susie Rack, how was lunch in Belgium? Did you enjoy my company yet again? Always. Always finding the top places to go. Sophie Downey was with us as well. Soph, I hope the company was good for you as well. But

you've been on goalkeeper watch this week. Yes, I have. It's been a superb week for goal. Well, there was one maybe big mistake, but the rest of the goalkeepers been absolutely superb this week. And I'm banging the drum today. Banging the goalkeeper drum. Marva Creel, I've been living vicariously through your New York photographs and videos. Did you have an amazing time? I did. I'm severely jet lagged though. So this feels like four in the morning to me. I thought usually this feels early, but this is especially early.

So apologies if there's any sort of delirious chat. There's always delirious chat on this pod. No one needs to be sleep deprived for that. Let's start with the news that sent shockwaves through the women's football world on Saturday afternoon, 3.01pm. To be precise, the announcement was made that Chelsea manager Emma Hayes will leave the club at the end of the season to pursue a new opportunity outside of the WSL and club football is what the statement said. After 12 years, six WSL titles, five FA Cups, two League Cups and a Champions League Runners-Up medal, it's the end of an era for a club that's dominated domestically over recent years. So much to unpack from the actual announcement, Susie.

Who, what, where, when, why? How did this happen? I mean, I don't know no I do and to be fair actually Sophie is the one with the crystal ball she's been saying it for a while but I thought for a while that Emma must be reflecting on what she wants to do partly because you know we spend a lot of time with her and she talks a lot about the difficulties of the job and balancing it with parenthood and is often bemoaning the amount of time spent away from Harry, her son, and what midweek Champions League away matches do

and stuff when you've got three games a week and how he doesn't like football because he basically resents it and things like that and um there's only so long that can go on for and when an opportunity like the us and his national team job or you know whatever it may be comes up it's hard you know because that is quite clearly a significant step career-wise significant progression but at the same time the like nature of a national team job gives you a bit more of a regular nine to five right I mean it's not but more of than club football allows so you know you've not got the sort of the daily training sessions and things like that in the same way. You've got camps and pre-camps and all the preparation

and going to watch games and things like that. But you can also watch footage and you have a team of people doing that. And you don't have to necessarily go to every game. And midweek, you're sort of a bit more free. All of those things sort of give you a little bit more time to spend with the family. So I kind of feel like yeah there's there's one itch left to scratch obviously which is the Champions League but I feel like the gap has been

getting bigger not necessarily smaller since they reached the final so it doesn't look like that's coming soon they do it this season incredible but I you know I think that's probably unlikely and yeah I feel like when big jobs like that come around you sort of have to re-evaluate obviously the death of her father's got a rethinking life generally and what's important as well. Yeah, there's been so much going on, hasn't there, for her, for sure. And I mean, that would be an absolute fairy tale to win the Champions League as she bows out at Chelsea. But, you know, you have been the soothsayer, Sophie, and you predicted maybe the US women's national job was on the horizon for her why is she going to be such a good fit if that's the right job and are you surprised by the timing

of the announcement or not? So as Susie said I was pretty not shocked by the announcement but the timing of it was a bit the catchment by surprise because it was 3pm on a Saturday after five games of the season. And that was the bit that was surprising, not the actual decision itself. I think she will be a big fit for whichever team she goes to manage personally. I mean, it just seemed natural. By the end of this season, she will have been at Chelsea for 12 years, I think. That's a long stint for any manager at any place so I think it's kind of really

time for something fresh to happen and she's a serial winner as Susie said she's won everything here pretty much even the Champions League, she won it with Arsenal so she does have that medal even if it's not as a head coach, she has that medal so the set is kind of complete whatever happens this season and in the US national team

if that's the place she goes there she's looking at a team that's rebuilding from the summer they didn't have the best world cup we all know that so I think she has all of the tools at her disposal to kind of work her magic and we know how she's been with the development with players she's had some of the most like prestigious talent under her control at Chelsea like Sam Kerr, Pernilla Harder so she's got the record there to to succeed if you know what I mean so yeah I think it's kind of the prime position for her. Marva it's really difficult isn't it to kind of sum up the seismic impact and lasting legacy that she's going to leave on women's football in this country.

Can you even imagine a WSL without Emma Hayes in it? I can't. I really can't. Especially for Chelsea, it's like, how do you replace the irreplaceable? She is Chelsea, you know. It's like you can't even begin to imagine what she's left there I think anyone who's watched that documentary as well of Chelsea and it's like even the the well say small things it's not small things it's like the level of the medical team and the focus they have on women's bodies it's these levels of the infrastructure that she's raised the game of,

not only at Chelsea, but for the rest of the league. And she's going to be such a big miss, obviously for rival clubs, they might be sort of rubbing their hands slightly, but now they don't have to compete against an Emma Hayes team. But I think the whole league

will definitely miss her. Yeah, for sure. Listen, you've been sending in all your questions so we'll try and do as many as possible thanks to sam in nottingham who dropped us an email via women's football weekly at theguardian.com understandably loads of questions let's try and go through them one by one i mean i don't need a job do i so hello guardian women's football weekly crew an obvious question that everyone else is probably asking, but who's likely to be in the running to replace Emma Hayes at Chelsea

once the season finishes? They also say with rumours that Hayes is in line for the US Women's National Team job, the idea of a retirement being cancelled a la Alex Ferguson at Manchester United seems unlikely. Who wants to take that? Susie Rack? It's a difficult one um I'm not sure there's been

talk about some of the possible candidates coming from the US in return so you could you know see someone like Casey Stoney come back potentially but I feel like as she just moved her family to San Diego that feels slightly unlikely although it is a golden opportunity. Her very, very first managerial step was interim player manager at Chelsea. So it's not out of the question. You know, people like Mark Parsons, even I was wondering about Bev Priestman, you know, given the situation with Canada, there's a lot of, you know, decent English managers out there, let alone when you look abroad as well. So there's no one of Emma's quality let's face it I mean she's the cream of the crop Serena Vigman is probably the only one that seriously

challenges her for that crown so it's a really really tough position to go into I mean I'm sure pretty much anyone in the WSL would turn their head if Chelsea came knocking. But I can't see any of them necessarily being looked at too closely ahead of what may be available across the pond. Next message from Sam. Personally, not speaking as a fan of Chelsea, but definitely a fan of Emma Hayes. I'd love to see a top female coach take the role. Is this likely? Based on last season, I'd have said Carla Ward would be right up there and I still think she's a quality coach,

but Villa's atrocious form can't be ignored. Are there any foreign female coaches who might be likely candidates? Sophie? I mean, there's a few out there. I was actually thinking about Carla Ward myself just because I think it would be nice to see her in a position where she's given

a lot of toys to play with as it were in terms of players and she's been at clubs where resources have been limited and she wouldn't get that at a club like Chelsea so it would be a totally different situation for her it's probably a bit too early in her career but maybe I don't know I kind of think like Chelsea should be thinking about not just like the immediate, but building for the future. Emma over the summer has brought a lot of young players, you know, players who aren't ready now, but will be in a couple of years time. That's the future of Chelsea going forward, I think, once you get rid of, you know, as the transition happens and some of the older, more ever present players that have been with Emma for the last six years or whatever as they start to probably start to retire I would imagine so it's going to be a fascinating young project there

are coaches out there I don't know as Sue said it's really hard because there's none of the the level that Emma has got to really you know you could maybe look like with a Jill Ellis I don't know go back into coaching I don't know there's a possibility of someone of that who's a multi-winner, but there aren't very many multi-winners as it were. You could look at maybe, I know Joe Montemuro was rumoured to be in line for the US coaching job. He might be tempted back from Italy. I don't know. That's a possibility. So, you know, there are coaches out there. But yes, it's just hard to adjust your thinking because of the level that Emma Hayes has got to and the multi-winning that she's done.

Sam's on a roll here, by the way. You're up next, Marva. What role might the club ownership take? Chelsea's men's team under Todd Bowley's ownership has been nothing short of a circus. Could this spill over into what's currently a very well-drilled Chelsea women's side? Is it too early to wonder if Chelsea women post Hayes might go the way of Manchester United men post Ferguson? And they qualify it by saying, yes, I am a certified pessimist. Yeah, very negative all round.

It's hard to know. I think what has to happen is there needs to be patience. And what has happened in Chelsea men hasn't been that. It's been the moment that they're not achieving the trophies they thought, then they're just sort of sacking and going on to the next person, which we've seen under this ownership as well. But they can't do that with Chelsea women. Like I've said, there aren't that many serial winners in terms of managers in the women's game. And I think you either replace her with someone

that you're trying to beat, Emma Hayes, which there aren't many people, or you go with something fresh and new and you look to the next generation and that might take a little bit of time. Obviously, they've got incredible players, so I don't imagine that the fall is going to be too big. But yeah, there has to be patience because it's so hard to replace someone like her. And if they don't win, you know, the FA Cup or the league next season,

they can't just kind of give whoever that new person is no time because it's going to be such an impossible job to try and fill those shoes. Yeah, it certainly is. Thank you for that, Sam, by the way. This is how they end it. Anyway, enough of my rambling, not expecting to make the cut, but still beaming from the shout out to my football mad twin six-year-old girls,

Isla and Meredith, last season. I remember that. Hi, Isla and Meredith. Massive thanks for your excellent podcast and incisive insights, which are the highlight of my listening week. Well, thank you, Sam. Leila has also tweeted us,

do you expect to see Emma Hayes return to the UK at some point to either manage in the WSL or once Serena Vigman has had enough for England, Susie? I mean, yeah, I think she'll come back for sure. Like family is like really high on a priority list. So I can see that definitely happening at some point if, you know, if she does go to the US. But she'll want to do a decent job there. You she's not you know we've seen in 12 years at

Chelsea that she's not one for for shortcuts um you know she's in for a project she knows America she's lived there she knows the system she's managed there she's coached at college level she's got friends there so it's not like a completely alien environment for her to be going into will she eventually come back to England yes in what guise who knows I mean her relationship with the FA has never been uh I was gonna say friendliest but that's not the right word just like you know they don't always get on the best and yeah I can't really see her necessarily ending up there unless there's like big change. But it's possible. It's definitely possible. But I also couldn't see her managing anywhere else but Chelsea and the WSL.

So personally, I would love to see her in Spain. But, you know, that's my two cents. Oh, wow. I mean, yeah, absolutely. At the top of the Spanish Football Federation, perhaps. Not even on the grass, just ripping it all up from the top. Maddy in Australia asks, Marva, do we think Sam Kerr is going to be more likely to leave Chelsea now that Emma Hayes is leaving at the same time her contract ends? Where would she go? Where would you want her to go? I know you'd want her to go to Everton, but don't say that. She's not going to go to Everton. Yeah, I just want her to leave the WSL if she stops scoring against us, to be honest. But no, I think it is a good chance

that she's going. And not only her, I think how many players have come in for Emma Hayes, more so than for Chelsea. I know obviously the two are quite synonymous, but yeah, I think we will see quite a big uproar of different talent,

which will be a very interesting transition to see but I think it is a shame because we love seeing you know Sanka here in the WSL and it's been amazing to see that kind of level of superstardom and that Emma Hayes has helped bring over but I'm sure we'll have many more and yeah you never know she might stay she might stay in the cold the cold weather of this country and not go to a lovely hot state in America. Now, listen, as we record it, she's not definitely going to America, by the way.

We don't know that for sure, but we kind of know it. So heavily linked with the national team job in the US following the departure of Vlatko Andonovsky after the World Cup, which if it is that job I mean she could become the world's highest paid female coach which would be very well deserved but are we going to get this announcement anytime soon Sophie where are we at with it all? I don't know but to be honest I think there are probably things to sort out it kind of came out of the blue very quickly because she wasn't linked with the job really in any reports until Saturday, until the announcement.

I mean, you know, there's some very well sourced people in America, but she wasn't even on the shortlist that was reported the other week. So I think it might take a little bit of time. I don't necessarily think there is any rush. The USA are, you know, they're qualified for the Olympics next summer but other than that they've been playing friendlies so far this you know the last two camps have been in friendlies so they're ticking along I think they will need to get the next generation through I do think the likes of Alex Morgan sadly are probably on her her final stand with the the US team and I think that's something that needs to happen at some point is that they need to say goodbye

to a couple of players to really start that next cycle. But yeah, I don't necessarily think it will be tomorrow. I think it might be a couple of weeks. It's going to be really interesting to see how it works as well. Because if they announce it imminently and she's going to take charge of the Olympics, whether that's the case or not, I don't know, then how does she juggle both in the run-up to that competition?

You know, it's a short turnaround from the end of the season to the start of that. She's going to have to start sort of keeping one eye on it at least, or go sooner. Like, you know, I don't know what demands they're going to put on her or how those negotiations are going to go. Obviously, she said she wants to say it well, or Chelsea has said she's's dead till the end of the season and I'm assuming that she would probably want to do that so then that's a really tight turnaround for the Olympics and I mean you know if you're banking on anyone to be able to juggle both and do their homework excessively on the US and build bridges whilst also doing the Chelsea job it's probably Emma Hayes but I think that's going to be a really interesting dynamic for the next few months as well. It's also going to be an

interesting dynamic you know the players obviously absolutely adore her and will be fighting for her especially to get the the Champions League but it almost feels like this kind of cloud hanging over doesn't it all season I mean clearly didn't because she must have told the players before the announcement came out on Saturday and we'll talk about their 6-0 demolition of Aston Villa very shortly so that in itself is very interesting as you say as is the transition for her to go to the States and the transition for a new coach to come to Chelsea and maybe somebody will kind of be in and around who knows loads more questions to answer that's for sure but that is it for part one in part two we'll take a look at all the WSL and championship action and reflect on the result

which leaves Team GB's Olympic qualification hanging in the balance welcome back to part two of the guardian women's football weekly okie dokie let's get on to the football field shall we because some very eye-catching results for us to cast our eyes over let's start at meadow park shall we we're in a clash of the WSL titans. It finished Arsenal 2. Arsenal. Arsenal. Arsenal 2. Arsenal. Arsenal. Arsenal. Arsenal 2. Manchester City 1. Now I just can't say Arsenal. I feel

like Miranda. You know Miranda does that. Like, does anybody else watch Miranda? Maybe not. And then it's a reference that no one will get. But anyway, an 87th minute winner from substitute Stina Blackstenia, sealing a precious three points for the Gunners, bringing them to within touching distance of the top of the table. It had been City in the ascendancy in the early stages

before Steph Catley put the hosts ahead after 14 minutes. Chloe Kelly continued her impressive early season form with an equaliser in the 72nd minute, but it was the Gunners who had the last laugh when Blackstenia slotted home the winner. 10 minutes have added time but no way back for Gareth Taylor's side who taste defeat for the first time this season. We'll talk about some of the controversy on the sidelines in a minute but it was a huge three points for Arsenal. Marva give us your assessment of the game. It was a really good game. Obviously, it's sad that the mistake

obviously kind of overshadows it slightly. But I thought City were very wasteful. The first goal kind of went against the run of play, but I thought incredible, incredible finish from Catley. Ridiculous and a nice bit of build-up as well. And I thought Arsenal generally showed a little bit more maybe balance in midfield. I think it's where they've been struggling quite a bit this season

and I thought Kim Little played really, really well. Did very well to kind of at least start to see some things play through the middle rather than just sort of aimless crosses from the wing. So that was good to see. But yeah, I just thought it kind of felt like if City wanted to win, they could have won. They didn't have to do sort of too much to get

into those positions to look like they could score and they just didn't have that finishing touch I thought you know Bunny Shaw was quite wasteful which we don't usually see I thought Hemp actually had a really good game um for a lot of it but yeah just it was quite surprising that when they were putting balls into the box it seemed like it was working. And they just sort of didn't do it that much. But when you don't see it with chances, that's what happens. And unfortunately, it was a disappointing goal to concede. But I'm sure Keating will have many other games to make up for it. Yeah, it was a really tough afternoon for her.

She's only 19 years old, we need to remember. She left the pitch in tears as well after that mistake for the winner. It had already been a really eventful match for her. She took down Chloe Lacasse to give away the penalty in the first half, but saved it. And, you know, she'll certainly learn from the experience, won't she? But despite 10 minutes of added time, no way back really, as I say, for Gareth Taylor's side. But Jonas Idavel said after the game, the first 15 minutes stressed me out. They started so slowly, Sophie,

but ultimately the right team won, do you think? Because Gareth Taylor didn't think so. I don't know. So in terms of like possession and chances, City had it. But I think where City fell down, I think like what Martha was saying is that, you know, they got four shots on target

of their 17 created. So that's really not a good enough return. So I think he said they were robbed after the game. I don't think they were robbed by any means. You know, football happens like that and the stats don't always tell the story. I think Arsenal did pretty well to recover from the first 10, 15 minutes where they were just turning over the ball way too often and they were a bit out of place defensively. They got that goal. I still don't know how Stephanie Catley did it. She was on a plane from Perth the last couple of days and then she goes and does that. The same with Caitlin Ford

and any other of the kind of Asian-based players because they've been over with the Olympic qualifiers. I remember coming back from Australia and I did not feel that energetic. So the fact that she came up with a bit of a worldie in the end to open the scoring and, you know, Arsenal did what they had to do. They dug in, they were gritty, they created some chances and they took them when it mattered and when it counted. So I never go by this kind of like, oh, well, we dominated the place so we deserve the win.

It's a bigger story than that. It's a more holistic story than that. And I think the way that Arsenal came back together after that first 10 minutes was huge. What do you mean? There's nuance in football. It's black and white, isn't it, Sophie? Surely. The world wants black and white. There's always nuance. Absolutely. We need to remember as well, there was no Alex Greenwood at the back for City. She's recovering after that serious head injury

sustained out in Leuven last Tuesday on an international duty with England. She was a massive miss for them as well. But we need to focus really on the off-field drama because City manager Gareth Taylor accused Arsenal boss Jonas Eidevall of bullying the fourth official during the game. Things got really heated between the two of them on the sidelines. And Taylor said afterwards that he was protecting official Melissa Bergen because of Eidevall's behaviour.

This is what he said. That's always the same with him because he's constantly at the fourth official and I think it's bullying. I'm protecting the fourth official, but that's not my job. Where do we start with this, Susie? I mean, maybe it's true. Maybe Gareth Taylor's little post-match rant is correct, and Yola Seidfowl is pulling in the ref, but it's not like the fourth official and the referee have no action available to take. You know, they've got cards. He's received yellow cards before. He's been sent off

before they didn't caution him as we understand it at all like he wasn't spoken to at any point so if the fourth official doesn't seem to be a problem if the referee doesn't see it to be a problem then what's made gareth taylor the the police of touchline etiquette i think he got given a white steed he was given a white steed before the game and he took it. He took it. Literally. Gareth Taylor's etiquette was to be sat in the back of the stand and not in his technical area or dugout for the first 15 to 17 minutes of the game or something.

He was sat at the back of the stand. So it's a very, very different style. Some people are a lot more fiery on the touchline i just find it a little bit bizarre when it's not like nothing can be done it's you know there is action available that is regularly taken that you would choose that to go on a bit of a rant on i don't know it just felt like a whole load of excuses like one after the other after the other after the other being robbed the lack of a penalty for the push on bunny shore which was a very very legitimate claim but you know another thing that go out at the end of the game and then Jonas rather like I almost see it as

a sort of a compliment to Gareth Taylor a bit of an Alex Ferguson strategy of deflection away from the attention on his players because you know they did dominate and they should have done more with it and I just feel like the when you come out and you make one big claim after a game I kind of think sort of fair enough but when you sort of start peppering them it feels a little bit ridiculous I don't know maybe that's just me if you throw enough at the wall something will stick. Eventually, right? The irony of him doing the first part of the interview where he complained about the referee and how she never gave him anything and then goes to talk about the fourth of issue

and Jonas's actions towards the fourth of issue. So I thought that was a bit like weird balance of things going on, maybe a bit hypocritical. I'll tell you what was a weird balance. Aston Villa 0, Chelsea 6. I mean, the game itself feels like a distant memory given the news that followed it. But it was a demolition at the Bescott Stadium on Saturday. The Blues ran rampant. Six different goal scorers in a totally dominant performance which sees them sit alone atop of the WSL table with 13 points from a possible

15 after five games played. Millie Bright and Fran Kirby put them in control at half time before Joanna Ritt in Canyard, Ashley Lawrence, Agib Eva Jones and Niamh Charles all netted in the second half to compound a miserable afternoon for Carla Ward's side. Emma Hayes described it as the complete performance. Was she right, Marva? Oh, completely. Really, really strong from Chelsea. I mean, funnily enough, I kind of think Villa weren't that bad for large portions of the game. It was just their defending on

the actual goals that was some of the worst defending I've seen. I think if they'd sort of left like they had at half-time, 2-0, I mean, those goals were still kind of the second balls. It's like no one was getting them were still kind of the second balls it's like no one was getting them they kind of just weren't awake to it all but I think if they'd left kind of 2-0 3-0 you'd say all right let's let's take the positives and sort of move on but some of those goals were just so easy so so easy for Chelsea and there were some moments that I thought Chelsea were brilliant on transition Aggie Beaver-Jones a great goal but again it's like the defending she shouldn't be able to just run in a straight line down the wing and then

play the ball across the goal and it go in and no one intercept it it's just like ridiculous and I think that Ashley Lawrence goal for me was the biggest sign of it where she just kind of jogs into the box like all the time in the world and no one even notices she's there but having said that I won't take away from Chelsea's performance because they were just so so strong so solid they could have actually had about four more goals some really really nice play I thought Frank Kirby was excellent and they just yeah that was just definitely a complete performance but how about five of those goals went in, in a professional league, just not good enough from Villa at all.

No, pretty frightening as well that Sam Kerr didn't even get off the bench. And they've just got so much depth in terms of attacking options. There was no Lauren James or Guru Wright in either. I mean, it's quite incredible. Let's focus on Villa, though, because it was another really chastening defeat and there are some massive questions about Kyle Award's future. I thought her post-match interview, by the way,

was very, very classy. It's been a cruel start to the season for them though. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel, Sophie? I mean, and apologies to Marva as I read this list, but they have got games against Bristol City, West Ham and Everton up next. Well, I guess that is the light because, know they are winnable games they should be winnable games for Aston Villa and they are the three games that you know they should be looking at

to really start to get momentum going get points on the board. I do think one I'm not taking away from their horrendous form they have been really really bad but like they played Chelsea Manchester United and they played Arsenal in three of the first five games of the season so you would be looking at the next block to be able to go get nine points out of that if you can they're definitely nine points on show there and you could be looking at a different story in three weeks time but losing does dampen confidence massively especially losing the way they did against Chelsea on Saturday no team of Aston Villa's quality or how high they want to be

should be doing that so it's how Carla can pick pick them up and and go from there because as we'll probably talk about later Bristol got their first win of the season that's their next opponent so they're going to be on a high Aston Villa are going to be on a low. So it's trying to come together and regroup massively ahead of that one. Adam asked, could Villa realistically go down this season, Susie? If so, what would that possibly mean for their star players like Daley, Darley, Hanson, etc.?

I mean, I think talking about relegation this early is a little bit premature you know you can never say never the thing that worries me is if they don't get a result in one of the games coming up particularly in the next game against Sheffield United in the cup as well like if they start dropping points against some of the teams they really really should be getting results against that's when we start to worry right? That's when the confidence has dipped so low that it's needing serious attention. I suppose the thing that worried me most about that performance was how easily they turned over the ball.

It was just so easy for Chelsea to win possession off of them. And I feel like that spoke to a lack of confidence in that like individual abilities on the ball and that for me is the most concerning thing can Carla Ward turn it around absolutely she's a very very good manager but they need it to happen in this midweek game really really desperately I go with a mix of lack of confidence and overconfidence because that first goal was conceded. It was from the corner, but the corner was conceded by Alicia Lehman trying to do some fancy stuff on the edge of the box twice. Like she had one occasion to do it. She lost the ball, but she won it back.

Then she did it again and then she lost the ball and it conceded a corner. So I don't know what she was trying to do, but that just shows that maybe being too overconfident and then you have the stuff on the goal line which is too underconfident so there's weird balance going on I think. Brighton 2 Manchester United 2 super sub Rachel Williams scoring another dramatic late equaliser

as Manchester United twice fought back from behind to earn a point against Brighton. She said afterwards it's becoming a bit of a habit for me. Can't be doing the heart rates of United fans any favours. Are you giving credit to Mark Skinner's side for fighting back again, Marva? Or are you criticising them for having to rely on

yet another last gasp goal from Rachel Williams? I mean, a bit of both. I was quite surprised that after Toon's goal, which was incredible, by the way, I thought then it would swing in their favour and we would see the pressure on them trying to get the winner. And instead it went completely the other way. And it was Brighton that looked more like getting the winner.

And then, well, they sort of did, but obviously then it didn't count as the winner. And it was just, it was quite a disappointing game all round for United. It just sort of didn't really click. I thought it was a bit weird that sort of Maldon was playing out on the wing rather than sort of centre forward and that Jace was the other way round and she didn't seem to kind of have her shooting boots on.

Yeah, it was all kind of just a little bit disjointed, which we've seen a little bit from Man United. I think especially kind of in the midfield as well, doesn't seem to be sort of clicking as much. And they kind of show moments of star quality and promise. But really, really good performance from Brighton, though. I thought they were superb all round and they'll be gutted to be leaving that with only one point, which obviously before the game, I'm sure they would have taken. But the way that that game went, I'm quite surprised they didn't leave with the three points.

Yeah, they must be feeling pretty gutted, Sophie. They were so impressive in this game. You could tell how deflated they were at the final whistle, but they actually have to take the positives from it, don't they? I think they'll be deflated in the moment. But I think when they came back in, they'll probably reflect on it and go, that was a really good performance. You know, they've shown glimpses so far this season of what life under Mel Phillips is like. They are resilient, they are battling, they're gritty, and they do have the ability to

score goals. And I think their first goal was an example of exactly what she wants them to do, you know, the press to win back the ball. And they had Elizabeth Turland fit as well, which changes the dimension of their attack she's a super finisher she's a super goal scorer and when they can find her and when the ball back like that and find her in the box she will probably make it count nine times out of ten so I think it was really positive signs from them the fact that they kept battling as well they didn't really yes United dominated in certain ways but they didn't ever really look like running away with it so I think they can take a lot from that game and they can

take a lot actually from you know even the 4-2 loss against Chelsea before the international break they showed a lot of signs of of what's happening there so it's just progress along the way and you're probably not going to see the best of them until the new year I think you know everyone's settling in and finding their feet, but really positive signs going forward. I know they've got a really tough run of fixtures now, but getting a point against United is a really good start. Yeah, I agree. And a little bit of love as well.

Marva mentioned Ella Toon's stunner there. She's had a bit of a tough time of it recently, so pleased to see her get a goal like that, hopefully bring back a bit of a tough time of it recently, so pleased to see her get a goal like that. Hopefully bring back a bit of confidence. By the way, listen to this for a stat. Manchester United have won six points from losing positions this season. We're only five games into the season, by the way. That's more than any other side.

And they're now unbeaten in 12 WSL matches. Brighton, on the other hand, just kept one clean sheet in their last 31 games. That's something that Melissa Phillips is going to need to work on, isn't it? West Ham 2, Bristol City 3. To East London we go in a five-goal thriller between West Ham and Bristol City. The visitors picking up their first win and points of the season.

It was such a topsy-turvy game as well, Susie, but as we've kind of alluded to in recent pods, proof here that actually Bristol have really grown into this league and and now they've got something to show for it. Yeah I mean you wouldn't have had Aston Villa bottom of the table and Bristol City off the mark ahead of them at the start of the season would you I think our predictions are safe because no one has got that right so yeah it's great to see them get three points

I suppose the thing for me is the resilience of it as well you know for a team that is at the bottom hasn't got a point yet to come back from behind and then also go on to win the game like that for me shows a degree of confidence that that we're not seeing in the likes of Villa so yeah like really satisfying massively out of possession for most of the game but just a really clinical performance I think they had what like nine shots and six on target or something like that like a really really high percentage and really really confident display which is what you need at this part of the season when you're when you're pointless yeah um West Ham have only just one win this season themselves they've got Manchester United on Sunday it's been a really

difficult start to Rhian Skinner's tenure hoping that she can try and turn that around I tell you what we had more late drama at Prenton Park Marie Hobinger scored an 85th minute winner to see Liverpool beat Leicester 2-1 it was the battle of the two early surprise packages really Sophie wasn't it and in the end not a bad way for Matt Beard to celebrate his 150th game as WSL manager quite a landmark to reach yeah I think the first half was a kind of battle of wills I think a bad way for Matt Beard to celebrate his 150th game as WSL manager? Quite a landmark to reach. Yeah, I think the first half was a kind of battle of wills. I think Liverpool created more than Leicester did. Leicester didn't actually create very much, which is surprising given the way that Willy Kirk wants them to play. But two brilliant goals, you know, from either side, the opener and then the leveller. I would definitely

recommend going to watch those because they are fantastic strikes. And I would put something down to say Marie Hobiger is, you know, probably one of the signings of the season so far. She's really hit the ground running to life in Liverpool. It's her third goal of the season so far. She's become a real crucial element to that midfield area, the way that she links to the attack. And yeah, I would definitely put her down as one to watch over the next two months because she's really setting Liverpool in the way. And I think for Matt Beard, there were some questions in pre-match, you know, about Willie Kirk's record against him because Willie Kirk did have the edge.

I think they beat them twice last season. So I think Matt Beard's just going to give a little punch in the air as he gets one over his rival because that record hasn't been so good against Leicester recently. It's the jinx of the Barclays' monthly awards, isn't it? Because Willie Kirk was named October's Manager of the Month and Martha Thomas was the Player of the Month and was not on the score sheet for Tottenham. It finished 1-1 against Everton.

Aurora Galley's late penalty rescuing a draw for Marva Creel's side. Grace Clinton-Hedder had put Spurs ahead late in the first half. And despite having 20 shots to Everton's 7 and 11 on target to Everton's 2, it was another inspired performance by Courtney Brosnan between the sticks for the Toffees, keeping them in the game. And it's a massive point for your side, Marva, given what a strong start to the season Spurs have had. Yeah, massive, massive point.

Maybe a lucky point. How deserved, I'm not too sure. Having said that, we actually had the chance to win it in sort of the last minute with Duggan. And it was a soft penalty given to us. But I think it's one of those that when it's given you can understand why but you could also understand why those just don't get given it was a bit of a weird game there was a lot of kind of just giving the ball away particularly from Everton's side I don't know how we fix that I don't know if it's a case of how we're being set up I don't know how we fix that. I don't know if it's a case of how we're being set up. I don't know if it's confidence.

I don't know if it's personnel. When you sort of see that level of kind of lack of concentration and just giving the ball away and not knowing what to do in possession, it's like, where do you even begin to start on kind of fixing that? And I don't know if that's the case of a few players kind of being out and not playing in their position, but it just shows kind of Sorensen's stubbornness of playing that system he will never change that system because we had bjorn out who um last season had been playing in in centre mid has now been playing centre

back for the last few games she's injured and rather than going all right let's do four at the back then puts van hevermate in centre back who's just a tall midfielder um who did really well actually to be fair to her she she did very well but um yeah it was just all very kind of lackluster but you'll take the point and uh given that bristol got their first three points of the season of one point on top of our only win is very very important in this unfortunate possible relegation battle van he Haven, Matt, is just a tall midfielder. Forget about all the accolade, whatever. Very, very good. She's very good, don't get me wrong, but it felt like, why are you putting her into centre-back?

Tottenham did miss the chance to go second, but they sit level on points with Manchester City, Liverpool and Arsenal. it's only goal difference separating them which means we've got an incredible race in store for Champions League football this season which is very very exciting right we need to wrap up events in the Nations League last week which happened after we recorded Tuesday's pod England's hopes of qualification for next summer's Olympics were left hanging in the balance after a 3-2 defeat by Belgium. Tessa Willard scored twice including the winner from the penalty spot in the 85th minute inflicting a second loss in the competition for the Lionesses. So as it stands it's the Netherlands who are top of group A1 thanks to their 1-0 win over Scotland, while England find themselves third

in the standings with two decisive fixtures against the Dutch and the Scots to come in December. Team GB will head to Paris if nominated country England reach the Nations League final. However, third place will be enough if Olympics host nation France reach the final. It's still complicated and I still fudge it every time I say it but it does actually make sense when you break it down. It just sounds more complicated than it is. It turned into yet another frustrating night for Serena Wiegmann's side Susie and we were kind of full of hope weren't we? Yumi and Sophie and Sophie's partner Rachel were sat having lunch and you know expecting that this was going to be pretty straightforward for England and it was not I mean straightforward and like hope and like reality two different

things right like Belgium are a decent side beat the Netherlands in their opening game perhaps we underestimated them a little bit but England just are struggling to score um like it was a really good performance I mean you look at the possession stats right like 73 possession and 18 shots and 85 pass accuracy I mean like tells a completely different version of the of the game than uh the score like that so it's a really dominant, impressive performance. But they just couldn't find the final ball, the final pass. And yes, Belgium dropped back really, really deep when they were defending, sometimes six or seven players back. And England really, really struggled to get through that intense block. But it was so frustrating then to see this weekend,

Chloe Kelly, Grace Clinton, Frank Kirby, Ella Toon, Niamh Charles all on the score sheet. What is happening on national team duty that means that they're not finding the final ball? Like, because they can do it, clearly. So what is it? Because I've really been like agonising over this because how do you make that better? Like, other than just putting balls in the back of the net like the creativity was there like they they were far more creative

than they have been in recent games i was looking at this game thinking is this like that miserable draw in belgium under phil neville after the world cup and it wasn't it was so far from that the performance was so so good compared to that but yet they could not put the ball in the back of the net so where you could see what needed to be done in that really really awful draw in Belgium back then like beyond kick the ball in the net like what more can you do I just I don't know what they work on you know they can score I've got their names on a list they all score this weekend what are they doing and then you've got all of the, you know, the English players scoring that haven't been called up

for England yet or for a while. Rachel Williams, Agave, Joes, Mel Lawley. Like, England have potential goal scorers, but why aren't any of them scoring for England at the moment? I mean, that feels a little bit harsh when it was 3-2, but that is the narrative of the game where, you know, it should have been put to bed, like, four or five goals in the first half, really. Yeah, she does actually have a list, by the way.

And the two goals that England scored were really nice goals, actually. The one particularly that Lauren Hemp set up was an absolute beaut. And then the ball from Chloe Kelly over to Lucy Bronze for that header. Again, superb. They can totally do it. But there has been a bit of defensive sloppiness there were you know there's a caveat in terms of they lost Alex Greenwood on 19 minutes to a really severe head injury that was quite worrying and we had a 20 minute break in in play almost but at the same time there's just a bit of a lack of cutting edge at the minute Sophie can you answer any of Susie's questions?

No, but I think the fact that the chances are being created means at some point they will start going in. And that's what does give me hope. I think it's maybe a psychological thing as well. I do think, and it's not an excuse because you have to come back and perform, but I think reaching a World Cup final and having the low of losing that really will take its toll on some of these players as did winning the European

Championship you know you go from such a high or low of a pinnacle of your career and then you have to get back to the kind of mundane process of winning fixtures that I mean the Nations League is important but actually it's new and no one really knows where this competition stands yet. So it's not on a World Cup level or a European Championship level. So I think that is a factor in terms of I think you're seeing performances from teams like Belgium who have had the summer off. They played in July. They've all had pre-season pretty much. They've been with their clubs and training really well and I think you are seeing the difference across the sort of the landscape of the performance between those kind of teams and the teams who were at the World Cup in the summer so I think that's a general thing

I do think they will start scoring goals I think the defensive issues are a worry because they haven't looked defensively secure for a good while now I think since Leah Williamson certainly got injured I haven't always been completely confident in their defensive attributes so that is a problem because they just got done on the break way too easy and I know they're pushing forward and trying to get the winner and trying to get the goal but the lack of pace sometimes in that back line whether even before Alex Greenwood was injured or after Alex Greenwood was injured as well is one to be concerned about because there are some very pacey forwards around these days so you're going to have to be on top of your game and try and find

a solution for that. I think there were lots of positives though. Fran Kirby, Keira Walsh was brilliant. She was back to her best. She was spraying those passes around. She had a kind of telepathic crossfield ball to Lucy Bronze that could have resulted in a few more goals than it did. So the signs are there. It's just bringing it all together, I think. And that's just going to inevitably take time. And whether the Olympics happens or not, you know, I think it could actually be quite a good transition phase, even if they don't make the Olympics. You know, we all want them to play major tournaments, but if they don't make the Olympics you know we all want them to play major tournaments but if they don't make the Olympics it's not the biggest deal in the world either. Yeah another positive was Chloe Kelly on set pieces once Alex Greenwood had come

off I thought she was excellent actually if Belgium win their next two games though it's out of England's hands so they've got to give everything in those matches against the Netherlands and Scotland which I'm sure they will. Now, in the Championship, Sunderland maintained their three-point gap at the top of the table, thanks to a narrow 1-0 win at Durham on Sunday. Southampton and Charlton kept the pressure on. They both picked up victories as well. They're on 18 points from their first nine games of the campaign.

We told you Birmingham were on the charge as well. They've won four of their last five, including this weekend's 2-1 win over Reading. Liam Gilbert's side continue to struggle since their relegation from the WSL last season. They've lost their last three on the bounce and Lewis stay bottom after their 1-0 defeat by

Charlton on Saturday, but they're still level on four points with Watford, who have beaten 3-0 by Crystal Palace. It's their sixth straight loss in the second tier and leaves them only above the relegation places on goals scored. It is that tight, Marva. Loving the Championship this season. Yeah, it's been exciting actually. I think no one really knew who to call was going to win this one and yeah, I'm excited to see the rest of it. And actually, while we're on the championship, Susie,

what's going on at Lewis at the moment? Yeah, I mean, it's all a little bit in flux. I mean, obviously they're sat deep down the table at the bottom. I mean, not doing too well, but they could potentially have a massive injection of cash pretty soon if things go the way they're hoping they had a vote of members over the possible takeover slash investment of mercury 13 this sort of conglomerate of individuals looking to invest in in women's football big time worldwide from the us um who they've been in discussions with um obviously lewis are a fan owned club so they had to put a vote to owners about whether this would take place

or whether they would, you know, kind of keep pursuing it. And they had a turnout of 42% and 67.8% voting in favour of moving forward and keeping the discussions up with Mercury 13, talking about sort of a £5 million injection potentially into the club if it goes through. Very controversial, though, because, you know, it's a fan-owned club pound injection potentially into the club if it goes through very controversial though because you know it's a fair known club and this involves you know losing that aspect of of their identity which is quite important but would see the women's team become a really really competitive side no

doubt so it's sort of a bit of a controversial one but that's rumbling in the background and the talks of mercury 13 are ongoing, as I understand it. Yeah, we'll keep an eye on that one and keep you posted on it as well. We need to give a shout out to Bournemouth as well. They had a record crowd of 6,805 fans at the Vitality Stadium to see their 4-0 win over Portishead Town. Incredible support for a National League game. The Cherries play in Division One South West, of course.

And Steve Cuss's team maintained their 100% winning start to the season. Nine wins out of nine for them and a brilliant attendance figure as well. Right, it's been a pleasure as always. Marva, get yourself some sleep. Bless you. Well done for getting up at what is 4am on your clock. Yeah, I'm actually off to work now. So hopefully I will fix this jet lag by just pure resilience. Adrenaline is what

tends to get you through. Sophie, see you later. See you soon. See you very soon. Susie Rack, always a pleasure. I won't see you for a few days. See you next week, maybe. How will we cope? How will we cope? I don't know. I'll just see you for a few days see you next week maybe how will we cope how will we cope I don't know I'll just message you every day instead as always

we'll be back next week to round up all the latest action across the WSL including that massive clash down at the bottom of the table as Bristol City host

Aston Villa plus Chelsea on the road at Everton as the Emma Hayes farewell tour begins you can get involved with us by emailing

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