The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - England and Spain set up quarter-final showdown – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: July 17, 2022

Faye Carruthers, Suzanne Wrack, Tamsin Connor and Jonathan Liew wrap up the final set of games in Group A and B. Plus, Sid Lowe gives a flavour of the mood in Spain after they set up a meeting with the Lionesses

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England finish Group A in style and continue with their plan to resurrect record breakers as Russo turns heads and they celebrate by dancing like a man in a striped t-shirt in a random bar. We also know their quarterfinal opponents despite sleeping through Spain's win over Denmark in the group of slow painful death. Susie Rack's predictions continue to go awry as Norway crash out at the hands of Austria. We'll wrap up all the games, take your questions, and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is supported by Visa, a proud sponsor of UEFA Women's Euro 2022. During UEFA Women's Euro 2022,

Visa will celebrate individual excellence by sponsoring the Play of the Match Trophy, awarded to the player who displays amazing skill and determination in each game. The Play of the Match Trophy champions the values of female empowerment, diversity and equality, which are the driving forces behind Visa's work in supporting women's football. Find out more at theguardian.com slash all hyphen win. Susie Rack, speaking of you, no career for you in predictions. However, maybe one as an artist or a star of the next great british bake off or a late night radio host or maybe a kid's party planner yeah all of the above i'll take all

of those they're not bad jobs to have on the side are they no they certainly are not i tell you what that picture that you drew of ellen white it actually looked like the original that had been done. It was fantastic. Thanks. Sketched on the hotel bed with a cheap throwaway biro. Not traced. Not traced. Not traced. Johnny Lu, I promised you that I'd ask you this one.

Why does Dimitri Vandenberg seem to love Blackpool so much? Yeah, well, I mean, this is Dimitri Vandenberg, who has won the World Match Play Darts a few years ago and was runner-up last year and started again with a humongous victory over Callum Ridge last night on the first night of the Winter Gardens. My theory is that the Winter Garden,

in short, is a proper darts crowd. It's the only real darts crowd that predates the whole da-da-da-da era era and I think it favours a more purist style of player and Dimitri Vandenberg he's not a it's not a huge crowd player he's just got a very metronomic throw a beautiful action and I think the setting suits him better that's my darts analysis and that's the end of my darts analysis for the day. Well it was wonderful darts analysis I didn't understand half of it was wonderful darts analysis.

I didn't understand half of it. I'm not going to lie to you. But you decided that you were going to watch the darts because Spain-Denmark was so dull. I didn't actually watch the darts. That was a joke. I mean, it was because Spain-Denmark was dragging a little. So I made a little joke on the group.

You know, I switched over to the darts. I hadn't actually switched over to the darts. I do have a semblance of professionalism still. Okay I don't really know who's running the Guardian well we've got the two big hitters of Susie Rack and Johnny Liu on the pod today maybe Tamsin Connor can step in a debut host of the Two Girls Talk Balls podcast Tamsin how have you been enjoying the Euros so far? Yeah, it's been amazing. Obviously, we've got to quite a few games, been darting around the North. But yeah, a really good start. Really happy, excited for what's to come. Absolutely. You are repping the North today.

Right. 16 games in and England became the first away side to win at the Euros, even though they're technically the only home side. I don't really understand that, but I don't really understand a lot of what UEFA do. Let's start with England, Northern Ireland, shall we? A 5-0 win for England to break the record for most goals scored by a team in the group stage of a women's Euros.

14 with zero reply. Tough news, though, for the team before this kicked off Susie Serena Wiegmann testing positive for Covid-19 probably wasn't ever that much of a concern for this game but what does it mean for the build-up to the quarterfinal good question um the FA said yesterday that actually she's doing a lot better she watched open training from a distance with a mask on I think it was you know the players that played did a part recovery session and the players didn't play played a full session and apparently she's doing much better because I think she was quite ill with it at first it's obviously not ideal to have your manager get COVID mid-tournament but sort of if

it was going to happen this is kind of the best time for it to happen in that you've got this five-day gap between the Northern Ireland game and the quarterfinal that sort of give a little bit of breathing room and make it potentially possible for her to be back in time for it given that with the other Covid absences that England have had they've sort of come back within that time frame. Obviously, you know, she's a manager. She's not necessarily an elite athlete in her 20s. But you'd like to think that she should be back in time for that quarterfinal. They're taking loads of extra precautions.

They've cancelled her family day to day. They're not testing like blanketly. They're still following your if-proper you if you're in a test with symptoms. But I think, you know, it's completely likely that COVID has gone through the entire camp and squad by now. When they've had Alex Greenwood, Ellen White, Serena, Lotta, all out at some point with COVID. I think you've probably either got a lot of immunity within the squad quite a lot of them have had them as being like well publicized over the last year or a few symptomless players as well so like yeah she should be back I don't think it's too big of a worry for the quarterfinals. Has Wiegman got herself like a

tactical Covid at the end of the group? You've got those antibodies in for the dead rubber, and now she's immune for the rest of the tournament. Smart move, unlike Netherlands. Yeah, exactly. Her assistant, Ayn Vuring, said to me that she'd actually planned for it in terms of she had a contingency plan if she were to get COVID. So, I mean, talk about meticulous planning. But I suppose, as you say, Susie, it was kind of going around the group. I would have expected that they might test Mary Earps a bit more,

bearing in mind she was with Serena for the press conference, interviewed as well and swapping microphones left, right and centre. I mean, look, it's here to stay, isn't it? Thankfully, she wasn't affected too badly by it and neither were the players because a 5-0 win. And they topped the group in style, Tamsin. And it was a gorgeous atmosphere as well at St Mary's from both sets of fans. They really made the most of the derby, the Northern Ireland fans in the far corner, all resplendent in green.

It kind of speeds everything up as well if there's only one national anthem to have to go through. Yeah, absolutely. I think Northern Ireland have given a good show of themselves in the competition so far. And I think the fans have been, you know, really supportive, although at times smaller in number, loud in voice. And, you know, very, very good at that and supporting their team. And I think obviously Northern Ireland haven't,

well, they probably have got out of it what they wanted to. I think that they've put on good performances despite their results. So I don't think that they can be too disappointed with walking away. I think who did the interview with Rachel Furness, which was absolutely brilliant. And she spoke really, really well. And I think, you know, will engage lots of people. But yeah, England absolutely rampant and caught for, I think, after the 39 minutes, of course. Yeah, same starting line-up as well from Serena Wiegmann, Jonny. She did this before with the Netherlands.

There are pros and cons to both, I would say, but is this a bit risky? I think there's certainly an element of hubris to it. You know, there are two ways of looking at it. You could see it as an opportunity to to test out a few fringe players to give your main players a rest but also I guess to I guess show off what you you know the bench strength and we all talked about England's bench strength it would have been an opportunity for that that's I guess what the protocol demands but but England kind of ripped up that that Northern Ireland protocol and um in terms of momentum, I think that's what Vigan was talking about.

And if there's no physical issues with the squad and, you know, you should really be able to play six games in, what is it, 25 days, I don't think it does the squad any harm to carry on drilling those combinations and to get in more match practice. And look, there were plenty of changes in the second half so again I don't think freshness is going to be an issue I certainly don't think stay honest

is going to be an issue 13 goals in the last two games suggest they're right on it so I can see why they kept an unchanged side and I think maybe the result sort of indicates in there. 14 goals actually and absolutely incredible and one of those goals was from Fran Kirby who played her first full 90 minutes in in quite a long time and got the opener obviously the Northern Ireland defence were were solid for that first 39 minutes but you described Fran in your piece as arguably English football's only real genius on either the women's or men's side what do you see that she offers this team that no one else can like we've all played football right and when when a ball goes into a certain area it takes actually quite a lot of foresight and I think game intelligence to run away from it

to run out of that area and to try and find the space where everybody else isn't. That's just obviously one of the things she does. Obviously, technically, she's great. Physically, she's had a tough season. She's had very well-politicised struggles. But the fact that she's got through 90 minutes suggests that she's pretty robust in that area as well. But it's the way that she manages to think two or three steps ahead of the game. She's got this unbelievable ability to not only plot where the ball is going to be two or three moves ahead, but also where she needs to be, where that defender is going to go and where that space is going to open up. And that's how she manages to find herself in space so often,

even against the sort of really tight, deep set defences that teams like Northern Ireland throw up. And that's why she's such an asset in games like that. I mean, I have a cardinal rule when it comes to writing about women's football is that you don't compare it to men's football. But in this case, I do think, like, I can't see a player on the men's side who has the all-round gifts that Fran Kirby does she's the

sort of player we don't like English football just doesn't really produce as a system but just unbelievably intelligent with all the attributes physically and mentally and yeah she she can be the difference in games like that she can be the difference going forward as well yeah I was thinking as Johnny was talking there that she's like a snooker player reading where things are going to be three or four moves ahead where things need to be three or four moves ahead just such a intelligent player so likable as well I mean she's been fantastic in the mix zones through this tournament she's always so honest and humble and real real nice person to top it off which is a pleasure to cover but yeah supreme talent i mean i said it i think in the first pod that for me she's the difference of you winning

and losing a major tournament of whether she's available and i still think that's the case and that's the risk when you don't change against northern ireland right that you pick up an injury i think we'd all be having a very different conversation about whether it's a good idea or not to make changes for a dead rubber game if there had been a big injury obviously that's a big if but um yeah I think it'd maybe be a little bit of a different conversation particularly if it's to a player like Kirby. We are so on the same page Susie because I was also about to say snooker player or chess player and that's a footballing intelligence that you don't actually see that much and I think it's probably why I wasn't a particularly successful footballer as a child

because I just used to run at the ball there's the ball chase the ball all the time. Two goals from super sub Alessia Russo including that absolutely sublime turn through the Northern Ireland defence which I think broke Twitter Tamsin but the ball from Ella Toon as well has not been getting enough plaudits in my opinion. Oh yeah absolutely huge you know fan of Ella Toon I think actually when we spoke before the tournament I was really really hoping for Ella Toon to get some time and coming off the back of the season that she's just had what I really really like you know when those kind of subs come on with Russo and Toon obviously they're used to playing together at club level but they're very very sparky and I think it's very exciting and I

like kind of not the unpredictability about it because we know they're obviously drilled to play in certain ways but the creativity and the magic that comes with that and then you get goals don't you that that that wow the internet and break it, but also, you know, deservedly so. I would like to see Ella Toon get a little bit more time, but maybe that's me just being a little bit selfish. I think she's got a lot to offer, hasn't she? As has Russo, Susie.

She was just fantastic. And there are calls, of course, for her to replace Ellen White. What say you? I mean, they're legitimate calls, aren't they? Because she's been phenomenal every time she's come on. But at the same time, she's made an excellent case for staying as a super sub. It's a tough one, isn't it? I think it's hard to overlook Ellen White's experience up against some of the biggest teams in the world going into the knockout stage. You know, she's England's top scorer for a reason.

She's match-linnaker's record for the 10 goals in major tournament finals for a reason. So, like, benching her when she's not necessarily underperformed in this competition would feel a little bit harsh, particularly when Rousseau's showing no signs of sort of underperforming when she enters the fray. I mentioned record breakers at the top. Another goal from Beth Mead. She's currently on five.

The most a player's ever scored in a single women's Euros is six. She looks on course to break that, Susie. Surely. You've got to think she's going to break that record. I mean, once you get to the knockouts obviously things could dry up a little bit but um yeah I mean like what an incredible season for Arsenal and then for England as well um after the disappointment of the Olympics and it was funny was after the first game against Austria when obviously that was the only game

that had been played I joked uh in the mix zone that she was going for the golden boot and she burst out laughing and then you know three games in she is top scorer on course for a golden boot um and suddenly the the joke is is uh is less impactful as a joke um her movement is incredible you know we talk about Alessia Russo as staking a claim for a starting place ahead of Ellen White but what about Beth Mead through the middle I mean that's where she started her career and Arsenal shifted her out to the wing and that's not to say that she's not performing excellently from the wing but so often you see her cut inside and and break through and you sort of think well that's an option there that could be tried at some point if needed um I mean it's not like England are short of decent number nine so but yeah I think

there's a case for it yeah I would agree with you and perhaps your most accurate prediction so far my only prediction you might be redeeming yourself, Kenny Shields being Kenny Shields, we had him praising Phil Neville before this match and now he seems to be laying some kind of hex on England, saying England are so far ahead of everybody at this time. I have to say, if they don't win the tournament,aye. I don't know what it is. I don't know the guy. I mean, I've not met him apart from in the press conference on Friday night where I glimpsed him making vaguely, I thought, passive aggressive statements about how England had to win the tournament, which was unnecessary. I don't think me and him would get on. That's just a personal opinion. So I did meet him properly one-on-one because I interviewed him in the tunnel after the match and I, like Johnny, was expecting that I would not get on with him at all. And actually he was warmer than I thought he was going to be. Anyway, as I've said time and again, the gift that keeps on giving.

Okay, definitely the more important fixture in Group A was Austria-Norway and a goal from Nicole Biller giving Austria the 1-0 win, which sends them through second in the group. I mean, they would have needed a win Norway anyway to have gone through given their goal difference. But Susie, you had Norway as favourites. What happened? I mean, it all fell apart, didn't it? I thought they looked very, very tentative and bruised by that heavy England defeat defensively. I mean, it was just more of the same, wasn't it? They just sort of utterly chaotic at the back, slow. You know, if Kirby is the snooker player

reading every move 10 steps ahead, they couldn't read the move that was like literally taking place in front of their eyes um and was sort of you know three steps behind it's kind of i think slightly sad to see a team with so much potential up front not really kind of have a decent crack on goal uh adaheckerberg had a few chances but i mean to be fair um arsenal goalkeeper manuela Zimsberger is an absolutely fantastic keeper. The most clean sheets in the league last season. Great shot stopper, good reading of the game,

and sort of dealt with a few of their limited chances pretty comfortably. But, yeah, I mean, I shouldn't have written off Austria. You know, semi-finalists last time round you know we saw what they did to England and suddenly that 1-0 looks significantly better in the light of a 8-0 and a 5-0 set of wins subsequently Tom did warn us that Austria had more than we were giving them any credit for

it feels as if we did underestimate them a bit, Tamsin. But a quarterfinal match with Germany next. It does seem, bearing in mind our previous prediction, very silly at this point to suggest that they've got no chance here. Yeah, I mean, I think the opening game was just like a classic opening game, weren't they? Austria were very technical on the ball and actually really enjoyed watching them up close. I likeze so i'm gonna i'm gonna admit something here actually i was scared of norway i was very scared of norway coming coming into this and when we spoke to our

norwegian expert he actually did highlight the defense so you know fair play there i actually found myself trying to convince people in the pub that norway had some of the best players in the world and it started to become increasingly desperate actually as more and more goals went in but Germany Austria I am scared of Germany we actually talked about this about whether they've been underestimated Germany I was like no at no point did I ever underestimate how how well Germany I think they're the only team to not concede apart from us and can just fire in goals from all over the place can't they so I'm not sure how well Austria will do against that because they've only scored three goals to withstand Germany

and then have to go on and score. You know, I'm not sure that they'll get past that. OK, well, two European championships and two quarterfinals for Austria. They certainly seem to be getting it right. But when I talk about people getting it wrong, the question is, Johnny, what happens next for Norway? Because Martin Sjogren came out swinging after the match, saying, I put very little into what so-called experts

have to say about me. In fact, I couldn't care less, to be completely honest. But I mean, they are consistently underperforming and surely he can't remain in post for the World Cup next year. No, and I think the thing about Norway possibly that distinguishes it from a lot of other countries is that there is a kind of continual conversation and discussion over that team. It is a big deal out there how badly they performed. There has been a lot of adverse press comment.

There's been a lot of pressure in the media, ex-players and pundits. And yeah, his job will come under scrutiny because I think if they beat in Austria, if they'd managed to come through that, it is easier to write that 8-0 off as a bit of an aberration. It was pretty clear from that game that there was still a hangover, that England managed to open up some, not only tactical flaws,

but some psychological flaws that they simply couldn't get over and might well take a whole new tournament cycle to get over. I was actually, you know, I was wondering what Hegarisa was doing because obviously she, you know, she led England on an interim basis, you know, after Neville and before Wiegman was able to come in and, you know, did a fairly decent job in the Tokyo Olympics. She's now their under-19s coach, I think, Norway under-19s coach. So, you know, if they want someone with tournament experience who may already be in the setup, then there may be a handy replacement there. I'll tell you what

Hager Rees is doing. She's hiding from Beth Mead. OK, we say goodbye fondly to Group A as England finish group winners with nine points, 14 goals,

none conceded. Not a bad week's work. That's it for part one of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. In part two, we'll see how the group of death finished.

Today's podcast is supported by Visa, a proud sponsor of UEFA Women's Euro 2022. But Visa are not only backing the highest levels of the women's game, they're also working around the world to help women and girls play football, whatever their age or ability. Today, we're joined by Nazime, who took part in a football camp supported by Visa in Turkey. Thanks so much for joining me, Nazime. That camp that you were part of just sounded absolutely amazing. Can you tell us a bit about what happened on the day? Firstly, it was an unbelievable experience for all of us. And we just went to the camp and do some activities about football and also talk about gender equality for football.

As part of that camp as well, you got to meet and talk to some of the players from the Turkish national team, I understand. What was that like? We learned about their lives, their stories, and it was all like inspirational for young girls to hear so it gives us a motivation to go on that road. And how inspiring was that for you? I learned so many things about not giving up and it makes me to go on that road and say like nothing can stop you. Just finally what is your ultimate dream in football? Like I want to study law so I would go on that road and study sport law and also be a

national player of Turkey and also prove that the girls can do everything they want and nothing can stop us. Absolutely. It sounds to me like you can do everything. Nazime, thank you for sharing your experiences with us. We look forward to seeing you at Wembley at the end of July. Thank you. I'm so thankful for all of you. Now on with the show. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Group B also wrapped up last night with Spain beating Denmark 1-0 to secure their quarterfinal spot against England.

Not the most riveting game, I think it's fair to say, but we have got our resident Spanish expert to talk us through this one. Hello, Sid Lowe. Good morning. It's too bright and early for you, but I would have thought that you'd have had an early night watching that game last night. It wasn't the greatest, was it? Although it was quite fun watching Harder basically create things from absolutely nothing all game long. The Danish plan seemed to be,

don't worry, at some stage she'll sort this out. Spain's plan was to kind of go round and round in circles or appear to be, although it is true, I suppose. Shall I defend Jorge Villa, if only because the whole world seems to be out to get him? It was two of his three half-time substitutes that combined for the goal. So maybe we'll give him that. Is that it? Is that the only thing?

It might be. I thought Spain were possibly better than people said in the game against Germany. And I thought there was enough there to believe that, I know you can't always say, well, if it wasn't for, and if this had happened, and ifs and ands and so on. But I thought actually the game against Germany was enough to think this is still a pretty good team. This as a performance wasn't as good, I didn't think. I thought it was a performance that looked nervous at times. It was striking that for all of the quality of the way they moved the ball,

which actually wasn't on display as much in this game, how willing they were, certainly in the first half, to just sling the ball into the box. And they seemed to have decided, we need to mix this up. But mixing it up by just basically putting it in the area isn't really enough. But they got there in the end. It was pretty nervy, but they did get there. What's the reaction been like in Spain to the performances?

Were their expectations as high as perhaps a lot of ours were? Well, this has kind of been the fundamental theme, I think. And in my opinion, at least, it creates debate about how you manage expectation, because one of the fundamental theme around the Spanish team, going back to pre-tournament, so when the Spanish team got together at Las Rojas, and even before that, Biddler has consistently tried to say, calm down, consistently tried to say, look, there are really good teams out there. But I think the risk of this was that he was actually undermining his own team in terms of, I'm not saying he did, I'm saying the risk was doing this,

in terms of saying, you know, we're not favourites. And he said at one point the line was something like, it seems as if we're already in the final and everybody is treating this as if we're already there. And I've never seen this degree of pressure put on a team that's never won anything. And we never have won anything. And this is over the top. And the problem I feel, at least, is that part of this kind of attempt to take the pressure off

maybe actually went the other way or too far the other way. Maybe it diminished the idea that actually this is a really good team that could win it. And I'm saying this, obviously, even before they lost Jenny Odomosso and Alexi Poteas, because as soon as you lose those two, and it's probably worth stressing this, and I know everyone knows this, but let's put it in very, very simple terms. They lost the best player in the world and the second best player in the world. You do that to any team and you can't seriously ask them to go and then win the tournament. Yeah, it's a really good point. Susie, is what Sid said about managing expectations something that England maybe could and need to learn from to a certain extent

yes although lesser because I mean I think the expectations on the England are justified whereas the ones on Spain I think less so given their like lack of major tournament experience they're very much I'd say you, a few years behind England developmentally. England are the most invested in team in Europe, if not the world. I think they might even beat the US for the most invested in national team. So that comes with additional expectation, right? And there's the FA set out very clearly in 2017 in their game plan for growth, which covered every area of the game from like

doubling participation doubling attendances but like the major competition element was win either this euros or the next world cup or both um you know that that was the plan that was the time frame it was never to win the world cup in 2019 you know that was always seen as um a little bit too soon but the point was to get them competitive enough to be able to compete and win major tournaments by this kind of time frame whereas I think Spain are sort of more towards the middle of that journey rather than the point at which England are where you start having the expectations that that start to demand a bit more but I think they were unfairly overhyped going into this and that

put a lot of pressure on a group of players that maybe shouldn't necessarily be expecting to win a major tournament at this stage or a country that maybe shouldn't be expecting that they will be competitive and winning a major tournament at this stage of its development. With that in mind, Sid, how worried is Spain going to be about England? Or are they actually realistically thinking quarterfinals is good enough? And are quarterfinals good enough, bearing in mind that Vilder was given a two-year contract extension? Yeah, and given it just before the tournament. But I think that was partly about a management, if you like, of the expectation and of the environments.

That was a way of saying, look, the trust is there. Don't allow this to be a distraction. Don't allow this to be kind of part of the focus. We do this pre-tournament as a way of saying we're in place. We know where we're going. We know what this is. Now, whether or not it's the right decision, of course, is another debate. I think in terms of the management and the timing of it, that was it.

And just briefly on what Susie was saying there as well, pre-tournament talking to Sandra Banyos, and she used this great line, which said, but I think people are overrating the Spanish national team because of Barcelona. We're overrated because people assume with Barcelona it's just not the same team, and you only need to look at... I mean, even beyond going into the questions

of the style and so on, you can just look at it in terms of the personnel. If you like, the difference makers at the top of the pitch for Barcelona, at least, just aren't there with Spain. I that's that's a fundamental list of players reality in terms of facing England of course Spain wanted to avoid it I think the defeat against Germany hurt for a number of reasons I think it hurt because the way it happened and because the sense that maybe they were on the edge of doing something they'd never done before because of

course this is a team that's never beaten Germany so there there was a sense that this would be, if you like, that step that doesn't just beat Germany, doesn't just take you into the next round, but says, OK, we've entered into a new reality now. And losing to Germany, I think, made everyone think, ah, OK, we're not in that reality yet. Now, again, I still think that the analysis of the Germany game is so heavily conditioned by the terrible mistake at the start

that possibly it could have ended up differently. And so they did want to avoid England, but it wasn't because the focus was on England, I think, at that point. It was because the focus was on, oh, I don't believe it. We've just blown it against Germany and actually still might not go through. And it felt to me like it was a little bit over-dramatised going into that final game. Everyone's saying, oh, wow, Spain could go out. Spain have got to beat Denmark and this isn't easy. And yet you look at it rationally, and I'm sure we all probably felt this before, Tom, it's always quite likely that Spain were going to the last game having to win. And as it turned out, they only had to draw. So they were in an all right position anyway. And so at that stage,

before last night, the focus was really on, do we get through? Now the focus becomes England. And so in terms of telling you the reaction from Spain, it's a bit early for me to tell you that I can tell you the reaction from the Spanish journalist in the stadium last night which was yeah the likelihood is that England beat Spain in the next round it's interesting though listening to Danish manager post game and he was talking about Spain maybe are the type of team that possibly if they can get certain elements of their game right, that England will find harder to play against. And he said something which I thought was interesting in the way that he discussed it.

He talked about how one of the hardest things to do when you prepare for a game against Spain is to prepare your players psychologically and mentally for the fact that they're not going to have the ball. So you've got players who want the ball, who are good with the ball, who play with the ball, and you have to basically get through to them, this isn't going to be the way you want a football match to be. And so the other elements of Spain's game may well be weak, but that part of it, you've got to learn to deal with. And Martina, the Germany manager, was saying this after their game as well. She said, look, I've got players out there who are cursing this because they're not getting the ball.

But the reward is that we won 2-0. That's really interesting, actually, Susie. You were nodding along with that and that is something that Serena Vigman talks a lot about about having possession all the time and being in control if you've got possession of the ball you can score a goal is the way she talks about it which is you know route one isn't it and they're gonna find that frustrating and I think mentally that's where England are going to have to show improvements perhaps. Yeah I mean under Serena they've not often been in a position where they haven't had

much of the ball they've played so many friendlies and qualifiers the Arnold Clark Cup was a example of sort of testing them in that arena and they came off okay if they played the same way they played against Norway then they could actually see more of the ball than we expect if they play with that sort of high intensity that high press turn over the ball a lot a lot in the middle through Stanway and Kirby um I actually think that they could like yes playing a Spanish team is very very difficult but I think they could actually end up seeing more of the ball than perhaps we maybe expect. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily assume that Spain are going to have more of the ball.

I think these are the two teams that have had the most possession in the tournament so far. I think England's something like 60%, Spain's something like 67%. And we saw against, against against norway and um and northern ireland the ferocity of that of that press the front three putting pressure on you know the goalkeeper sometimes the goalkeeper and the back four and and if if you if you can put that that spanish back five under under pressure we saw against against germany that you can you can get some rewards

there. And the other thing is, this is I think the main reason why not having Puteus and Hermoso is such a big miss for them, quite apart from what they can actually do with a football, is that when you get to the sharp end of a tournament, it really tests you in different ways. It's sudden death, essentially. Processes and plans and systems only really get you so far. And the thing that they are missing right now, we saw it... And this is the sort of thing you see in a game like Germany that you don't see against Denmark, or you don't see in a kind of a 6-0 friendly win over Australia or 7-0 or whatever it was, is that players like Pateas and Hamoto, and there's not many of them, who essentially say, I'm not putting up with this. Something needs to change here. Whatever plan or system is in place, or whatever the script is, I'm going to change it.

I'm going to do this instead. And that's what wins you tournament games. That's what I haven't seen from Spain yet. And that's why I think they need to essentially be playing the perfect game to beat England. I think it's possible, but they need so many things to go right for them. And I think England have so much more margin for error in that respect. Interesting. Brilliant stuff. Sid, thank you as always. You've answered the tweet from Adam looking ahead to the game, which I'll read out in a second, but always a pleasure chatting.

Nice one. Cheerio. Sid Lowe disappearing mid-pod as always. So Adam tweeted us saying, should England go all out high-pressing attack against Spain on Wednesday like they did against Norway, which Susie just mentioned there, or should they opt for a more defensive counter-attacking strategy that worked against them at Euro 2017 and helped shut them out

in the Arnold Clark Cup, Tamsin? I'm a fan of the high press. And, you know, if we're talking about possession football and that's how Spain like to play as well, you know, if we go for the assault and get some early goals, for example, and kind of frustrate Spain out of the ball rather than us being frustrated out of the ball,

then that's what I would prefer to see. I much prefer that style of football anyway. I'm not a massive, massive fan of Spain's style of football. So that's what I hope to see from them. And I think obviously it has worked better for us. So Serena doesn't like to change things too much. It makes sense really why change something when it's better for us. So Serena doesn't like to change things too much. It makes sense really why change something when it's working for us.

In terms of Denmark though, Johnny, just one goal in three group stage games. They're just not at the same level they were in 2017. Are they disappointing all round? I was so disappointed in Denmark. I mean, we saw them in the first half and they were essentially playing a kind of 5-4-1 with Harder on her own up front. And it was almost as if they knew that if Spain score, they're just going to knock it around and we're not going to get back in the game.

So weirdly, the dynamic for a team that needed to win and was chasing the game was the one who actually were playing with with that kind of fear and I thought the the system was wrong I thought the approach was all wrong I mean how how you leave someone like like Sydney Abrun who you know she plays for Lyon right she's not she might not be a starter but she's got like some like 12 goals in the last 13 games who we know links up with harder and you you have to win that game to get through. Why you're not even, I don't know if there's some kind of injury issue or there's something behind the scenes, but not even to bring her off the bench

just showed the lack of ambition that Denmark had. And it's all very well saying, like, we're going to sit in, we're not going to have the ball, we're going to counterattack. But how many times Denmark counterattacked and Spain had five or six players back and harder was essentially on her own and you you cannot counter-attack with one or two players even if one of those one of those players is panila harder it's fine playing that system if you're ready to spring out of the traps and an attack with pace and numbers and just denmark

didn't have those numbers whether it was for physical reasons or whether it was just, you know, they were so tired after, knackered after chasing the ball on a hot evening. So I don't have a huge issue with the tactics, but the approach throughout the whole tournament has just been so disappointing for them. Because there is talent in that team.

I mean, people are calling them a one-woman team. It doesn't have to be. There are decent players there. And I think they sort of play to that stereotype slightly. There is more potential than what we have seen from them. And that, I think, is a big disappointment. I'll tell you what wasn't disappointing for the Spain fans, though. Goalkeeper Sandra Panos handing out pizza slices to the fans,

having gone and bought pizza from the stadium. Loving that. Now, I'm not sure there were many eyes on this Finland-Germany game, but it did at least throw up an all-time television abbreviation. Wonderful finger. Wonderful. Love it. I love things like that.

It's just little things, isn't it, in life. It finished Finland nil, Germany three. Really simple win for the germans in the end who like england finished top of their group with a 100 record and zero goals conceded how much has this group stage been a statement for the germans suzy oh huge i mean i always expected them to be strong come this uh competition despite the sort of slightly flustered running um they always are you know typically brutally efficient come the actual tournament and it's good to see alex pot back and on form she's missed so much the past season through injury and then major tournaments for

injury so many major tournaments for injury as well you know she was out of the arnold clark cup for example i have a england germany final in my head at wembley which would be quite a special thing and also means it won't happen yeah it it completely means that it means they're getting knocked out um in the next game doesn't it but um they're very very strong and i'm a little bit worried about how strong and how organized they are from an england point of view because no other team perhaps has shown the consistency and sort of has the edge experience wise in the over england in the way that Germany does. The last time they went through a group stage unbeaten, not having conceded, was when they won it in England in 2005. So, yeah, I'm slightly worried by the German team.

Have they been tested, though, Jonny? Certainly. Spain gave them a really good game. Denmark, as we've said, were quite disappointing. Finland, they're a quite limited side, aren't they? I mean, they have pace and they defend quite well, but there is more to come from the Germans. I think one of the things I wanted to highlight is that they obviously looked at a few different players last night. In a way that England, who already qualified, they named an unchanged side. Germany had a look at a few players. I think Nicole Angiomi is it,

who came on and scored the third goal. Really highly rated. I think she's placed for Eintracht Frankfurt. She's one to watch. They have so many different attacking combinations. And they're also, I mean, Susie mentioned brutal efficiency. They are also kind of just brutal.

The way they chopped Spain down and the way they kind of take it in turns to foul teams, essentially, to try and disrupt their rhythm. They are quite unashamed about that. I think they have more fouls and more tackles and more ball recoveries so far than any other team in the tournament, which says quite a bit about their approach. And if they come up against, I mean, we have to assume they get past Austria, if they come up against France in the semis, that could be one of the games of the tournament

because that would be a really fascinating clash of styles, I think, the way French fluency comes up against that sort of German wrecking ball. Yeah, that's very, very interesting. Based on what Susie said about England not meeting Germany in the final, do you think Serena can perform a masterclass against them? Tamsin? Like I said, I absolutely love the German style of football. My concern is also that Germany can just score from anywhere. Johnny, I think you just said to me that they have so many different attacking combinations and it can literally come from anywhere on the pitch. And if England haven't been fully tested to find those weak spots, I do trust the German side to be able to find them where they do exist

and to be able to carve teams up. But I do think that England are resilient enough. I think, you know, the three different kind of games that they've had to play in the group stages, I think has prepared them. You know, they've scored early and had to hold on. They've been absolutely rampant. They've had to break down a team that they would have expected

to break down sooner. So I do think that they have had to problem solve. And, you know, as long as they can keep that resilience and they can not become frustrated for the younger players in particular, I think that they can do it. I do think that there is enough in there. And I do think the players enough of a team in England to be able to do it. But obviously, Germany at Wembley in the final absolutely terrifies me. And I will leave if it goes to penalties and we're outside. Well, listen, don't worry. It's not going to happen.

As I said, all of Susie's predictions are pointless. Susie's kiss of death. Yeah, listen, we've got rid of the group of death. Let's keep the death theme going. And we now have Susie's kiss of death. Oh, dear. Morbid, morbid pod. Right, Group A and B are done and dusted.

We have our first two quarterfinals set. England facing Spain on Wednesday in Brighton and then Germany playing Austria at Brentford on Thursday. It all feels extra serious now, doesn't it? Who are you all looking forward to in particular, Susie? Obviously the England-Spain game. It's going to be really interesting for all the reasons we said a minute ago with Sid,

how England handle the passing game of Spain and the possession-based game of Spain and whether they can counter that, but also just dominate it, I think is the exciting question. That is the game to watch purely because of the form England are in at the moment. Jonny? Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of interested to see what happens when the two halves of the tournament kind of meet each other because it does feel a bit like a north-south tournament.

You know, all my London-based friends have been going to Brentford and taking pictures of, like, Germany and Spain and whatever. And meanwhile, there's this kind of parallel tournament taking place in much smaller stadiums up in the north where, you know, equally good players are playing in front of, you know, much smaller crowds. And I don't know who is in charge of levelling up this tournament. So I think there's been a, yeah, there's been a weird divide between the top and bottom halves.

And we're obviously going to see that kind a weird divide between the top and bottom halves. And we obviously, we're obviously going to see that kind of shake out in the next couple of weeks. So yeah, that's the amazing thing about knockout football. It throws up matchups

and ties that, that you want to see basically. And, you know, whether it's France against Holland, France against Sweden, those are going to be really, really mouthwatering games

coming up in the next few days. All I've got in my head is the Spice Girls when two become one. I can't get it out now. Really underrated as well, really underrated. I had Game of Thrones stuck in my head, so I was thinking, are we underestimating the Starks of the North? Brilliant. Always, always underestimated, always overperformed.

There we go. Go on, Tamsin, what are you looking forward to? Yeah, obviously, I mean, I'm looking forward to the England game. I think I do have some of the hang-ups that we talked about with Spain just because, you know, if you turn it up, it is a little bit dangerous, isn't it? And it's a little bit of an unknown quantity at this point now without those kind of star players.

And like Johnny said, it's a sudden death isn't it and it feels a lot more serious I have actually been a little bit maybe this is controversial being a little bit underwhelmed by Sweden and Netherlands as well but then if we kind of forget about them is that when they turn up in the in the knockouts and maybe that's not so much what we want them getting onto a little bit of a good form going forwards but I do like to keep an eye on Germany. Sorry, that's probably very unpopular and I'm probably going to be kind of blacklisted now from England games moving forwards.

No, you're not blacklisted. You're not blacklisted. Karen is a big Poppy fan. I forgot to say to Susie, she's not allowed to call her by her full name of Alexandra Pop. On this podcast, she's only known as Poppy. Right, it's been an absolute pleasure Tamsin awesome debut thank you very much yes I'm sad though my uh hosty voice seems to have disappeared as we've gone through the pod so you know sorry about that

guys no I love it I loved it at the start I love it even more now Johnny Lou I mean you were average let's let's just say that we'll take that Susack, I'm going to put in an order for a football-related cake, but it's got to be gluten-free. By the end of the tournament, I promise I will return your charger from Switzerland in exchange for a fantastic baked cake by your fair hand. I feel like that can be arranged. Wonderful. I'm very excited. That's it for today's

Guardian Women's Football Weekly. We'll be back on Tuesday as we find out who's booked their place in the last eight from Group C and D as well as looking ahead to England's quarter-final

showdown with Spain. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Lucy Oliver and Jessie Parker-Humphreys with additional help from Silas Gray and George Cooper. Music composition was from Laura Iredale. And our executive producers are Chessie Bem, Max Sanderson and Danielle Stephens.

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