The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - England fall to France and Wales make proud but painful debut – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: July 6, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Freddie Cardy and Beth Fisher to discuss England and Wales’ opening Group D defeats

This is The Guardian. a little bit grumpy this morning. Any reasons why maybe? That certainly wasn't the start that England or Wales wanted to Euro 2025, defeats to France and the Netherlands respectively and the Lionesses now have the unwanted record of becoming the first defending champions to lose their opening game of the tournament. We'll discuss what went wrong for both sides, look at Group C, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well we have a semi-panel today because Beth Fisher from ITV is going to be joining us a little bit later to look at Wales' historic day against the Netherlands. But Susie Rack's with us. Susie, how are you?

Tired, very, very tired. I think I got back at about sort of 2am last night, so I'm feeling it. Pods, the day after an England record, first thing in the morning. Always a delight. We appreciate you joining us. I don't know whether you heard our pod. I'm assuming you did. Of course, you are the co-host of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, so I hope you did, where you were asked whether you've sampled the local cheese. Some, but not as much as I'd like, but tonight I am going with my mum who

is out here for a few days to a very, very nice, well, TripAdvisor's top place to get a cheese fondue, so stand, stand back and I'll reveal how good it is next pod. Okay are you a bread dipping in the fondue or a cheese spoon onto a plate dip your cheese into the fondue? What kind of fondue are you? Oh no, you've got to dip, you've got to dip into the fondue, like anything else is ridiculous. That's part of the fun right? Like everyone loves the Jeopardy. I wonder whether Freddie has any idea how popular fondue was in the 80s. I very much doubt it. Good morning, Freddie Cardy. How are you? I'm good, yeah. My fondue knowledge not great, unfortunately, and not lucky enough to be out in Switzerland to even try one.

It's currently raining where I am at the moment, so very much missing out and annoyed by the constant drone shots of the mountains and scenery that they're showing on TV as well. It's just not helping. No, I hear you. I hear you. Listen, I said that Beth was joining us to speak Wales, but we've got to dissect that performance last night from the Lionesses in a frustrating opening day defeat, I think it's fair to say in Zurich, dealt them a huge blow in their chances of getting out of Group D. It finished France two, England one,

thanks to first half goals from Mary Antoinette Catotto and Sandi Baltimore. Kiera Walsh did pull one back for the Lionesses late on, but it wasn't on anyone's bingo card, by the way, I don't think. Kiera Walsh scoring England's first goal of the tournament but as a whole Susie, having had a few hours sleep to reflect on it, what did you make of the game? It was just really disappointing I think because we know England can be better. I think also

the first 20 minutes were really on it, like the pressing was really impressive, particularly really, really early on. They had that great chance, 39 seconds in when Lauren James fired over, you know, she looked really, really sharp. The decision to play her over Ella Thune or Grace Clinton early on looked like a really good one. But I mean, I was going to say she faded, but the whole team really faded, particularly after the goal was disallowed. So they really struggled in midfield. I mean, I know Georgia Stamway has been playing and has got minutes under her belt for England in the past kind of few games that they've played,

but she really struggled in this match. And it does make you wonder whether the recovery from that injury and like competitive football match fitness is really there yet but I mean you say that but Walsh struggled as well, James struggled, putting James in maybe disrupted the the connections between that midfield free as well maybe that doesn't quite work so yeah a lot of really nice final sort of five, 10 minutes where they really, really pushed for the equalizer.

And Michelle Adriman looked really, really dangerous, which is obviously like a bit of a positive to take away from it. Producer Sophie tweeted it. If she had come on maybe sort of like five minutes early, it was given just slightly longer to do something. I was thinking 75 should have been perfect on 75. Give her 15 minutes, five to kind of find her feet

first major tournament young player, 10 to kind of get the killer instinct. Exactly that. She looked really bright, it was positive. I wonder, Freddie, whether you think that Serena Vigman got the tactics quite right. Lauren James in the 10, first start since April, as Suzy said.

Georgia Stanway switched over to cover the left side of midfield. quite right. Lauren James in the 10, first start since April as Suzie said. Georgia Stamway switched over to cover the left side of midfield, not used to seeing her there. A few other things that perhaps didn't feel comfortable and maybe contributed to some of that performance. Yeah, I think the worries we had about maybe the squad selection coming into the tournament, probably midfield and then the full backs, I sort of think they all came to fruition last night. And looking at the stats, which I don't often do, I sort of like to watch the game my eyes first and then delve into the stats later.

But England had 32 long balls, France played nine, England had two successful dribbles with 10 attempted, France had ten successful. So I think that tells you all and that's with England having a Lauren James in the side. They weren't able to have joy against their full backs. France's wingers had so much joy, you know, against Lucy Bronze. We all know what Lucy Bronze can do. We all know what Jess Carter can do and I thought Leah Williams' interview said it all. You know, they did get the tactics wrong and I don't know if Serena Vigman sort of fought any differently, but I think the fact that England, you know, did have to go long, that they weren't comfortable being pressed,

I think just says it all about the lack of control they have in midfield at the moment. And I think that's the number one area they need to address going into a game against the Netherlands side that's very midfield heavy. And yeah, just the lack of of it's been such a criticism under Vigman of players you know Michel Ajamang having that impact and I was listening to Frank Kirby on Five Live this morning and she said Michel should have absolutely come on a little bit earlier and interestingly she sort of said it actually helped the French defenders sort of focus on another

player and be split between Rousseau and Ajamang whereas Rousseau was really marked out of the game she She was completely dominated. But, you know, when you do get your tactics wrong, you have to be able to admit that and then make changes early. And it's just not really something Serena Vigman's been able to do. Well, I don't think she necessarily in the post-match interviews that I've heard and read, she didn't hold her hands up to mistake. She said, we've got other options is how she's very good at putting a putting a different spin on it. I want to kind of go through the game a little bit I use this word a lot on this pod don't I chronologically because actually you know Freddie meant it was a really good start that opening 10 minutes you, Lauren James on the ball so quickly, first chance of the game,

and then Alessia Russo's goal ruled out from a very tight offside. All the players seem to think, and Serena Wigman, that it should have stood. I personally don't think you can argue an offside call is an offside call, but you look at the graphic that's doing the rounds and it's a sliver. But a sliver is a sliver. We want these technological advancements to stop mistakes happening and then we complain when they actually show something. I wonder how we would have felt if it had gone the other way. And Serena Vigman, Susie, actually alluded to the fact that the momentum of the game completely shifted after that VIR check. She said, we started playing short passes while we wanted to get out of their press,

which is what they're strong in. And I think that caused us some problems. How and why did that momentum shift? I think that disallow goal was a massive issue and really like took the wind out their sails a little bit. And like. I know it shows a sliver on those images, but you're literally talking, it's not even a toe, right? It's literally the end of a toe, the sliver of a toe. I'm pretty sure I've seen evidence

that suggests that VAR cannot literally break it down to the millisecond of the timewise. I'm pretty sure that's not possible. There's a margin of error and the idea that that could be given as an offside, I think, is pretty damning on the state of the technology in the game. It's not accurate enough to be able to do that narrow margin. It's not accurate enough to be able to do that narrow margin, it's just not. And so like when there's that margin forever and it's not as clear and obvious as that,

a little more clear and obvious than that, I think like you, I just think it's really disappointing because it was a really stunning goal. But anyway, the momentum shift, it's really hard to put it down to more than the VAR decision and the win being taken out of sales a little bit. I mean, we asked Jess Carter about it in the mix zone and she said, I just really don't know the answer,

to be honest. We all have days where we're just having a bit of a mare on the ball and unfortunately today there was more than one player doing that. I think we all made a lot of mistakes today that we normally wouldn't make. So I feel like as much as we need to review and go over it and make sure we do better, there's also a lot of things in there that were just uncharacteristic of some of the players

in the mistakes they're making. So like, I think that's the key, right? Like it was really it was a really uncharacteristic performance. I think, you know, LJ in the in that midfield free doesn't quite work as well as a more midfield unit. You know, she's such a attacker, she moves out wide a lot, that kind of stuff, which then leaves it just down to Keira and Georgia in that middle. And I think that does then put pressure on them. You don't get those triangles in the same way that you do if you have an Ella Toon or a Grace Clinton in that position, who do sort of, I would say, look at that unit in the midfield a little bit more and with a little bit more attention maybe. But you also need LJ's creativity

on the pitch. So it's a really, really tough call. And I do think it was a very, very uncharacteristic performance. I think Jess Carter's right. It was really sloppy. We know they can be better, all of those players. I think, you know, like possibly, that is possibly one of the heartwarming things to take about it. They can be better than that. We know that that, it was not a characteristic performance. And hopefully, I'm like Freddie,

I'm slightly wary of that Dutch midfields. Like they're very, very, very good and very technical. And yeah, I think we're really in danger of going into that final match already out. Yeah, it's a must win on Wednesday against the Netherlands unless Wales can pull off the shock of the tournament and beat France and based on the performance that France put in last night that looks unlikely with no disrespect to Wales whatsoever. We'll talk about their match very shortly but But I want to talk about the defense actually, Freddie.

You were mentioning earlier on, the midfield was a huge problem, but I actually thought defensively, when we switched to a three at the back, it felt better and matched France up. But what I found the most interesting is neither fullback were on it. We don't see, she's definitely as she

ages with all immediate respect and props to Lucy Bronze who's been fantastic for England. She made a lot of mistakes. What I love about her game is that she immediately rectifies them and goes straight into to reclaim the ball having lost it but she just lost it way more than we were expecting her to and I feel like both her and Jess Carter were done for pace on the wings. Those France wingers are frightening and and we were exposed. There was even one moment where I think bronze, she looks to be away down the right-hand side where she was on the attack and Selma Basher was

just when, almost jogged and just got the ball back where you thought bronze would be flying through and creating a chance. Suddenly the ball was down the other end and Khashoggi had that lob. I think it was Khashoggi and almost scored for France. I think the relationship between the centre backs and the full backs was almost the problem last night. We know certainly from the last World Cup that bronze likes to push forward. You look at the second goal where Williamson is sort of holding off the France attacker and she's sort of there, doesn't quite do enough,

but she's holding her at bay and then bronze sort of, Williamson does enough to hold her off, almost has the defending to do herself and then bronze almost steams back in, makes a real meal of it, gets a little bit unlucky and I think maybe almost the emotional reaction from Leah Williamson, I think says it all. But actually she did mention the lack of control in midfield meant the defense was tired and meant they had more work to do. And that meant they were prone to some more mistakes. And I just think certainly with Leah Williamson, maybe there's a bit of fault for the first goal. I think probably our best football hasn't really come in an England shirt. We have seen maybe more mistakes in England colours as opposed to when she's at Arsenal and that quite settled defence. And it's easy for me as an Arsenal fan to sit

here and say that and then start criticising a Chelsea player in Lucy Bronze, but she did really struggle. I think that's there for all to see. I would argue she was left very exposed for that first goal because Alex Greenwood came out to support Jess Carter and then there was just this huge gap that she was having to cover by herself. I found her comments very interesting, actually both her and Serena Vigman used the word sloppy, we've all used it here as well, but she also said some cheap sort of emotional defending. Is that a fair enough assessment or a bit harsh? Yeah, bronze is flying back in, putting the tackle in and making a bit of a mess of it.

I think maybe that sort of refers to that because I thought that was just a really, really poor goal to concede and there were a couple of more mistakes. And the fullbacks just looked really, really exposed. Even France where they made their changes, you know, you bring in a player like Deani, a player like Mallard, the fact that France made their changes upfront, I think actually they almost looked to push for more goals. There was that save from Hampton that nearly trickled over the line and France really saw that, you know, was an area of weakness. And I just think, I don't know how surprising this defeat is.

I don't think like there's new mistakes, new areas of concern that have come out last night. Maybe the manner of it is a little bit surprising and how England were playing so well. As you say the VAR decision happens and a lot of the time that really, you know, can kick the other team into gear. But I don't know if these are new lessons we're learning about the Lionesses or if it's more really, you know, what we worried could go wrong is going wrong. We did say in our preview pod that the direct pace of France's wingers would be a danger for England. So that's certainly something that we did warn of, without a doubt. I mean, look, they were a real handful, weren't they? And

all handful weren't they and Marianne Cattoto getting on the on the score sheet incredible and Jess Carter suffered a tough evening without very much support as we've mentioned already but how did France go and get the job done? Yeah I mean they really attacked the wings and I think they particularly focused on Jess Carter's side like left back is a position that England has struggled with for a long time. You know, Rachel Daly's retirement has impacted options there as well. Obviously, she started the Euros in that position and the World Cup and she's not a natural, she's not a natural fallback as well. So that, I mean, that speaks to the problem that England have had in the position for a very long time. Neve Charles and Jess Carter have sort of been vying it out to

start this game. I actually thought Jess Carter going into it was the right decision over Neve Charles because I thought Neve's just struggled in some of the games she's played recently. So to see her struggle the way she did was disappointing, a little bit sad. That said, I think she wasn't necessarily helped significantly by the players around her either. I don't think there was really a great performance in the England side from anyone. So it was Georgia Stamway that lost the ball in the middle, played a short pass that led to the first goal, which led to Carter being quite caught out and isolated. And then we saw sort of Lauren Hemp is I'd say probably better

at tracking back than some but I did feel like Carter was left a little bit alone so I suppose it was the wings that they were really really targeting and moved the ball so quickly that made it really really hard for England to defend against and yeah Baltimore and Cascarino in particular out wide were really really causing all kinds of trouble so yeah that's got to be a bit of a focus I think the central defenders were a little bit too narrow at times it does make you think well you know Alex Greenwood was a left back is left-footed if we're really struggling in that position, but then you're moving her away from midfield, we've not got Millie

Bright obviously because she stepped back for this tournament. So it then causes problems elsewhere, but something needs to be done to shore up that area because teams have noticed that England don't have an actual left back and are really kind of punishing that area. But yeah, I just thought they were far more aggressive, their press was more effective, their movement was quicker, more accurate passing and yeah targeting the wings was a really smart move given how narrow the central defenders were playing as well so yeah just a really

strong performance and frustrating. Yeah look we mentioned we mentioned Michelle Ajumang, 86 minutes. It's not a lot of time to make an impact on the game, but for a major tournament debut, she absolutely did, didn't she? She immediately ruffled the French feathers, almost scored, was a menace in the box. What did you make of her cameo? And should, I mean, we've already mentioned

she should have come on earlier, that's for sure, but that's always the benefit of hindsight. Yeah, really, really impressed. And as I say, England went long for most of the game and they did it to one striker who, you know, is a very good physical player. I've covered Russo's two seasons at Arsenal and I've never seen her sort of physically dominated

like that. I don't think the referee offered her a lot of protection, be honest but I do think you've got to give credit to the to the French centre backs for doing you know what what they were allowed to do essentially. But you know Asher Mang, I spoke to a former Arsenal Academy player the other day and I said you know if you had to pick up one former teammate who's going to be a go on and be a superstar and I'd even finish the questions she said Michelle you. And they had played together, I think they were saying since under nines level and at under nines level opposition were terrified of her basically. They all wanted to be on her team because her shot power, her physicality even at that age was

such a step up. And I think you see that even now and she's such a mature player as well, you know, positioning straight away where she comes on and she really suited England's way of playing and she's justified almost in those few minutes the fact that Serena Vigman's willing to just throw her in. She's not here to just experience Switzerland and be around the squad. She is a genuine contender to get some minutes and hopefully get some more after that and I think she worked really well. You know, her and Russo being Arsenal teammates, they barely played together because of her loan spell but she's just a good old-fashioned number nine, she's a poacher, all of her goals are bright and within a few yards of goal a lot of the time she's

really good in and around the box and just that physicality which Russo does have but for Azure Bank to offer even more, I think there's so much more to come from her and hopefully a bit more in this tournament. Yeah fingers crossed, you, she was the bright spark. There were bright parts of the performance. It just was, I don't know, this just weird bookended performance. Great at the start, great at the end, messy in the middle. So let's talk about the great at the end, Susie, so that we can give ourselves some positivity and momentum and stop being so grumpy on a Sunday morning about the result. England did finish on top, had a shot blocked off the line, couple saved as well. I mean, you can argue too little, too late, which absolutely it was. But what do we take? How do we use that momentum going

into the game against the Netherlands? God, I wish we had Messi in the midfield. So do I. Might break some rules God, I wish we had Messi in the midfield. So do I. Might break some rules though, I think, Susan. Maybe a few, I'll take the chance. Yeah, there's a lot of heart to take from that final 10 minutes, as a question asked, a couple of the players in the mixed zone,

and they know they can fight back. That's what Elatun, like I said in response, is that they've shown time and time again that they have the capacity to come back from a goal down in games and have done it before and they felt that momentum in that final 10 minutes and you could say if they had another five minutes they would have got a goal or whatever and hindsight is a beautiful thing. I think France weathered that little storm fairly well. They struggled to cope with Ajaman a little bit. As we've already said, her lack of time on the pitch, I think, didn't necessarily help her in

that respect. But yeah, there were positives there, right? Like, they showed what they should have been doing for the 90. So, you know, they showed they're capable of dominating that France side, but that said, you know, when you they're capable of dominating that France side. But that said, you know, when you're two one up and defending a lead with five minutes to play, you're going to sit back a little bit. The other team is going to have the ball a bit more. So it's a little bit of an outlier in terms of a pocket of the game. But you know, there are, you know, the fact that they have that bright spell at the end was was definitely something that they can take something from going into the next one. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. So what do they need to do against the Netherlands,

Freddie? Give us your tactical nous. Yeah, I think I bring Clinton in from the off. I think, you know, Walsh and Stamway are key. I think the way this England squad is set up, you are going to have to sort of throw your stocks into those two, because there isn't a lot else in all honesty in terms of those two players who can sit in front of the defence, but I just think a bit more support with Grace Clinton. Perhaps you throw Lauren James out wide. She was drifting so much out wide last night anyway, and just for her to be direct against those Netherlands fullbacks who were they were bombing on quite a lot against Wales and getting forward so there is space to exploit there and and just you know I know we've

said it for a few years but that tactical flexibility as well bringing on players early how key was that in Euro 2022 bringing on Toon and Russo you know this has been such an important part of England's tournaments it just feels a shame that Serena Vigman just seems reluctant to do it, especially with England's squad depth lying up front, really, in that particular area. Difficult to know with the defence, as you say, I'd be almost inclined if I was to change that back four to move greenward to left back and then have a go with somebody else alongside Leo Williamson. But

again that comes with its own risks but I think they have to get the midfield balance right and I'd be surprised if Clinton doesn't come in or even tune from the start. We'll be doing a preview pod on Tuesday looking ahead to that match. Right that's it for part one. In part two we're going to look at Wales' Euros bow against the Netherlands. Plus, we'll catch up on the action from group C. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Now, it's only right to bring on a Welsh voice for part two, so we're delighted to be joined by Beth Fisher, who's on the ground working for ITV this tournament.

Hello, Beth, how are you doing? I'm loving your work, by the way. Every time you pop up in your, I'm very jealous of half of your cool outfits that you're wearing. The loose clothing is impressive. But I've been loving your work. How's it going out there? Yeah, I mean, it's been an amazing week so far. Obviously, last night's

result was disappointing in a lot of ways, but equally, it was an historic moment for Wales. And I think that's what will be the memory, I hope, coming in the next few days and hopefully move on to the other games. Yeah, we'll go through the performance, shall we? It was a special day, not the result that you necessarily wanted, but incredible Wales making their first appearance at a major tournament in Lucerne. It finished Wales nil, Netherlands three in the end, goals from Viviana Miedamar, Victoria Pelova and Esme Brut. Look, it was a tough result, Beth, but overall, what are your reflections on the match? Yeah, I think a lot of us after the game came together just to kind of debrief because it's

been a long time coming, right? And I think a lot of us had this kind of feeling, could we get a draw out of it? You know, that was our hope. This would be the first game in this historic moment. You know, the Netherlands have had all the trouble on their camp. So we were being very positive in a way, kind of maybe too positive. But I think maybe we didn't think about how much the occasion would have maybe on the players.

And I think having spoken to her in her James post-match, she did say there were a lot of nerves. And I think, you know, especially the way the Netherlands played, you know, it meant that they had to do a lot of running, which was, you know, obviously tiring, we know all about that and the heat. So I think the overall kind of feeling straight away was disappointment, but I think you've got to realize you're playing against the Netherlands who in every position have a world-class player, right?

So maybe we were asking too much of the Welsh team. I don't know. So I'm still in this kind of moment like, were we being too optimistic? Were we being realistic? But at the end of the day, like Rhian Wilkinson said, it's a Euros, right? You know, there's only one bigger competition that's a World Cup and Wales are here and it's a starting point. It was predictable, wasn't it, Suzy? Viviana Miedema eventually breaking down the Welsh resistance in the most Miedema way as well. 100 goals for her country. It was an impressive feat in itself. And I have to say, you know, what a goal to mark 100. How many have been like scuffed shots bundled into the net? Not quite the special that we were hoping the timing of it really

disappointing from a Wales point of view. But maybe her celebration needed a little bit of work. to the net. Not quite the special that we were hoping, the timing of it really disappointing from a Wales point of view. But maybe her celebration needed a little bit of work. Yeah, I mean, I don't really know what Caspar I was doing while the other two made zeros for the 100 and people saying she was making a VW, trying to make a VM. I think she was trying to do Viv. But yeah, it was embarrassing. And yeah, phenomenal, phenomenal player. And it's, I think I turned to Jessie Park Humphreys and said, every time Vivian I made a score a goal, it hurts my heart because obviously I still wish she was wearing an Arsenal shirt 90% of her year. But yeah, phenomenal player and particularly like nice to see given that,

you know, Euro 2022 wasn't the best because she had COVID and her recovery wasn't really allowed to take place because she was thrown straight into the deep end and had to play 90 minutes an extra time and really struggled in that tournament and then obviously missing the World Cup through that ACL injury. So, like really nice to see her be sort of back on a stage in full fitness and like able to perform the way she does. And she's a difference maker, right? Like she's the kind of player that, you know, when you are kind of playing against a very, very resilient back line that, you know, really spent a lot of time focusing on how they, how they stop players like her. She's the person that can pull something out of not much.

And I mean, that strike was just wonderful. There was nothing stopping that. And, you know, I think there's some heart to be taken for the Welsh in the fact that it took a moment of quality to sort of break that resolve. Obviously, then the game has to open up a little bit naturally but it like it took that kind of moment of magic to deliver the opener I think is a positive for Wales as well. Yeah, Victoria Pelova's goal as well kind of killed off Welsh hopes of a revival three minutes after the break it was a bookend again wasn't it either side of the break. It was a bookend again, wasn't it? Either side of the break. Special moment for her though. Freddie marking her first international goal in two years since recovering

from that ACL injury. She's a real asset to this Dutch team. She's not actually played a lot of football for Arsenal this season. René Sleig has named sort of a very settled side for most of her tenure. So it's just nice to see Pelova playing. As I said earlier, it's a very midfield heavy Dutch side, almost all five of those players apart from Meedemaar in midfield and the tank all play in the centre of midfield for their club side. So you've got Roard and Pelova out wide and you had Brooks and Kasper are really pushing on down the wings and it was interesting to see Pelova playing wide wide but she's a really lively player and she can get forward in and around the box. And look, the Dutch didn't have a lot to work with, I think

everything in the first half was sort of long shots, they hit the woodwork three times in the end and then I just think Wales looked tired by the end of it. Again, it's these, the earlier kick-offs are a little bit hotter but I have to say I loved watching Jess Fishlock just playing with a smile on her face the whole time and I think that was mirrored by Rhianne Wilkinson sort of watching her on the touchline and I just think the work rate of that Welsh side, Kerry Holland as well, you know, almost being ran into the ground. You couldn't fault it whatsoever. thing, Beth, I guess Wales will take heart from maybe is that England performance and that if all Wales can get out of this Euros is maybe helping England stumble, I think that's all the motivation you need. Listen, it is so funny post-match, we go from doom and gloom as Welsh, but then we write, okay, if we win on Wednesday, we've done all these maths and when it comes to Sunday, we have a chance and you know so I think I think listen

you know there is this obviously this rivalry naturally between Wales England so it will be a strange one and to be honest I hope on Sunday there is something riding on it I do not want it to go into a game where you know either we're both out or one's already through so I want there to be jeopardy and I think listen you don't need players to get up for a Wales-England match. And before that, we have France. And I know that France don't particularly like playing Wales. We almost beat them when we played them away five years ago. Obviously, typically French and maybe I'm being too stereotypical as well. You don't know what, necessarily, a French team you'll get on the day as well. So, listen, this group is the group of debt, but equally, I think it's probably the most exciting one of the euro so far.

Well, I agree with you 100%. And actually, I said earlier on, you know, Wales could cause an upset against France, but it's unlikely. And I'd forgotten about that game five years ago. You absolutely do have the chance. And you were in the game against the Netherlands, rode your luck a little bit at times, but I was really impressed with that first half performance. You actually frustrated that Netherlands attack effectively. Interesting comments from Rhianne Wilkinson after the game though. She said obviously the timing of the two goals either side effectively ended their chances, but she was very critical of her own technical staff and herself and their choice of tactics. Is there a bit of a lack of experience on this stage? What was she particularly looking

at themselves for? Do you know what I think it was to do, I think they tried to deliver a message just after the second half break and I think she said they tried to do a message just after the second half break. And I think she said they tried to do it too quickly. And I don't know whether that obviously led to that second goal. I think, to be honest, I think the minima goal late on probably disrupted their whole team talk half time, right? And I think it definitely took the wind out of the team sales.

It did for everyone in the staging as well. So listen, I think the thing with Rian, she's such an impressive person and manager. And there's no doubt she was saying that maybe as well to maybe take a little pressure off the girls a bit, you know, because I think you could see how hard they were working. I think it was 30% possession in the first half. And that is hard against any team, let alone in the Switzerland heat as well. So listen, I think, you know, to summarise a little bit, I think a lot of nerves, a big moment and at the end of the day, we're playing elements in the world, you know, so I'm trying to be positive and I'm not trying to be too positive and go, oh my God, we're going to

win the next two matches. But I think as well, we've got to realise where we are in the overall turn of football within this kind of European teams. Yeah, we mentioned in our preview pod, Suzy, didn't we? The lack of an out and out striker and you could tell that without a doubt and Beth is nodding vociferously. Yeah, listen, you know, the way you set up against teams which are so high ranked is always gonna be with that defensive mindset. And I think Wales have been very good at that over the last few years.

But I just feel as well, and this is no criticism of any player, but if you look at the squad, I think, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you've only got Kerry Holland at Liverpool, who's playing at that really kind of higher level football within the English set-up, obviously you have Jess and Harriett over in Seattle. I just think, you know, I kind of, the biggest, and I'm going around the circles a little bit, but my biggest thing is I just wish in a way this tournament had been five

years earlier for the likes of Jess, the likes of Sophie, for the likes of Harrod and maybe a couple of the others who've now retired. I feel maybe it was a tough task for Jess in the position she was playing yesterday as well, where she wasn't getting any ball and she had to come so deep. And as we all know, when you get a ball that deep as a forward, you're not going to run from a halfway line, or you could do depending who you are. So I think, yeah, it's a tough ask for anyone in that team and we are lacking that striker role. So it'd be interesting to see how they set up against France. Will they go for it or will they try and get, you know, a point? Who knows? But yeah, it'd be interesting to speak to them today to see how they're feeling. Yeah, I think that, you know, when you compare Wales to Poland as debutantes, you know, they've

got Eva Pied, your up front, and she was a real focal point for them and offered that threat on the break that I think Wales could really do if they don't have that figurehead who is able to just hold the ball and give the defence a little bit of a break, hold it up, challenge, get some runs in behind just to keep that defence a little bit concerned. They just lack that and I think that's the difference. But I do agree, it's almost a little bit too late this tournament for some of the key stars of that Welsh team and you know so it's always going to be a huge, huge ask for them to do anything but the fact I think obviously it'd be amazing if Wales do something special in this tournament but it also doesn't really matter if

they don't either because getting to this tournament is going to be so beneficial for the growth of women's football in Wales that it's kind of like irrelevant at this stage, like how well they do. You can have hope and things like that, but ultimately just having been here and provided that next step in the story of Welsh women's football is what matters, right? Yeah. And I think as well, fortunately or fortunately, we have that 2016 men's little kind of dream story. And I think a lot of us came here and went, oh, first tournament. But really it's unfair to put the pressure on that players because I mean, that was a once in a lifetime thing that I think will never happen to any other team again. So I think you're right.

And I think actually, like I said, you know, speaking to Laura McAllister, Vice President of UEFA, got to get that in there, because she is the most powerful woman in world football, by the way, and she's Welsh. But listen, and I know she was on last week as well, but we did say this is a kind of a call to the Federation to say, listen, this is the standard now. So you have to make sure you invest, not just in this team, but actually the academies and the pathways going forward so that,

for tournaments to come, we are at a better standard again. So I think it is a bit of a wake-up call in a way, but what a nice wake-up call to have, right? Much better to be here rather than at home watching on TV. And it's really hard to look at that men's success story in comparison to the women's because the gap between sort of like the pool, the quality, the professionalism is so much greater on the women's side. Like the level we're talking at, the size of the player pool, the FIFA rankings are a much greater gap between teams in it at the top and bottom and middle than there are in the men's. The men's are all starting from a much higher base point together, so I think that also makes a big difference to things. Yeah and actually, time for another conversation

maybe, but I think the professionalism and the way the WS Salahs progress has actually been to the detriment of Welsh players. There was a lot of Welsh players maybe five years ago, and I think, you know, Rhian Wilkinson has said she thinks the Welsh players are not looked at in the same way. So, you know, it's an interesting concept and I think it will be an interesting future. But listen, like I keep saying, I'd rather be here talking about this than being at home going another one this. Yeah and 3,800 Welsh fans in the stadium as well, the red wall really showed up didn't they and we will talk about it again because we'd love to have

you back on. I know you're so busy with the work that you're doing on ITV but it would be great to get you back on to discuss a little bit more. Just one quick question on Kerry Holland, by the way, because Rianne Wilkinson said when she pulled up on the, just off the ball, it was cramp, not a hamstring injury, which is what we all kind of worried about. But how concerned will they be about her fitness? And also all the players left so much out on the pitch in that first game with France and England ahead. What are they going to be doing? Listen, I think I saw Kerry in the tunnel and she gave me a little wink. So I think she's going to be all right. But yeah, I mean, listen, these players, they used to kind of

turn around, they get it in club, don't they? So it will be, you know, they're back at their team hotel today having that kind of R&R. But I know that the families are also coming to visit them today. So I think that'll be really nice just to see their friends and family because they've been away in Portugal for a week as well, 10 days. So it's been a long time. So everyone's in the same boat and I'm sure the team around them will make sure that they're prepped in the best way. Yeah. Look, before we let you go, a bit of a different one because I know you were quite keen to talk about working at a major tournament as a mum, it's something that

myself and Suzy know all too well and the challenges that come along with it. In fact, there are lots of parents out there, as in every job by the way, nobody's special working in football but it's certainly not a nine to five kind of job. And working at a tournament is incredibly intense. But obviously, your wife is Anita Asante, former England defender, and you have your little one, it's Gigi, isn't it? Who's out with you. You're both working at the tournament. How are you finding it? Yeah, this is my first, I say proper job since I had the baby. I deliberately probably kind of ruled out ever working in the sport again because Anita is doing a lot with her

work. To be frank, and we all know that it takes so much to kind of look after the children in terms of time and kind of organizing that schedule. There was a moment when Sarah Nurse called me from ITV, she said, do you want to be the reporter for ITV sport? And I said, yes, within a second. She went, do you need to check with Neats? I went, no, I'll tell her,

because Neats haven't sorted out her schedule and we didn't know who she was going to work for. And it was kind of in the back of my head going, oh my God, what are we going to do with Ziz? And it honestly, and I'm sure, you know, you both agree that if it wasn't for family, we, one of us wouldn't be able to do this tournament. And that gives me kind of like, you know, in some ways, I'm really proud

that, you know, women and men, may I add, are kind of doing the job and juggling. But there is this kind of thing that, again, football is set up for men's kind of schedules and kind of ways. And I kind of hope that down the line, and maybe I'm being a little bit too kind of schedules and kind of ways. And I kind of hope that down the line and maybe I'm being a little bit too kind of optimistic that we can make sure that whilst the game kind of developed for women players and them having families that off the pitch journalists and everyone who work in the game can kind of come with that.

Like, you know, I know Robin Cowan is out here and she's had to bring her both her children, you know, she's breastfeeding, which I'm sure, you know, she's Robin Cowan is out here and she's had to bring her, both her children, you know, she's breastfeeding, which I'm sure, you know, she's loving. But I saw her yesterday and she's finding it really hard because it is hard. This job's hard anyway, let alone when you have children who we love dearly and you have that juggle, mental juggle of trying to, you know, make sure they're okay, but also be blinking good at your job. So it is hard.

And I think I wanted to do a massive shout out to all the mums that have done this before me because I'm in the last of a long list. So thank you for paving the way and being such amazing role models, but it is blinking hard. Well, what I find really fascinating, and I was talking to Susie about this the other day, is it is now talked about because there are plenty of women before us who've done exactly what we've done but never talked about it because it was it was not spoken about because it would you know sound as if you were either complaining or weren't up to it or you weren't up for doing the job and when I had my little boy Ted it was you know I actually went to my boss at Talksport at the time and said I'm so I'm so sorry but I'm pregnant

and so I'm not gonna be able to cover the World Cup in Qatar and he went, why? Why can't you cover it? I was like, well Ted will be 14 months old, he'll have only just turned one, so and he went, so take him with you. And he was just so casual about it and I was like, oh, can I do that?

And if it wasn't for my parents, my parents brought him out and, you know, it was exhausting. I'm not going to lie, but I was so proud and grateful, which sounds silly in this day and age that I was grateful to have been allowed to do that. But so many other women before, you know, would have been questioned, why would you take your child to work? And I understand that, and I understand it's very different with, there are plenty of men on this tournament who are leaving small children behind and know that it's very difficult for their partners

back home having to deal with it. So it does work both ways. It's not just a mum issue. It's a family issue for everybody. And now we're getting more players as well, having children. It's certainly something I'm pleased is being talked about more.

It doesn't get any easier either for both of you. My son's 11, nearly 12, and it's worse when you can see that they understand that you're going and they're going to miss you and can tell you that they don't want you to go. Oh don't tell me that Susie. Yeah it gets worse, it's so much worse. I get that already, Ted Dora liked football. James has a weird relationship to football because because of it, it's really like sad.

At the same time he's super proud of it, it's really like sad. At the same time, he's super proud. And I think it's really good that children get to see their parents and their mothers in particular, go out, work, do these exciting jobs, have these amazing careers and set an example for like, for them. But yeah, it's not easy.

And coming back is hard as well because, you know, you then face a lot of sort of built up resentment of all of the issues that your partner has had while you've been away. Not intentionally, not consciously, but like they've just dealt with so much and so much juggling. My husband works full time, he's a train driver, and he's having to juggle full time work plus James, school, finishing school, summer holidays. It's just, it's so much. And then, you know, when you get back, there's kind of like this overspill of like exhaustion

as well that you then face. So like even returning home isn't always the nicest. So it's a really, it's a real roller coaster the whole way through. Well, Neitz goes away now for her BBC things. So we get to do like a full on schedule and you know, it's the first time she's been at home and I've been away. So I'm kind of being like, it's been an interesting dynamic and I think she's understood how hard it is. But you know, if we did have my mum

three minutes away, I don't genuinely don't know what we do. So yeah, I think, you know, a big shout out to you both as well because you know, you do this a lot and it's my first experience. So a big, you know, a big hats off to both of you. Beth it's been brilliant to have you hopefully we'll speak to you before the end of the tournament but again without blowing smoke up your backside I'm loving your work thank you very much. Thank you and I love your work as always thank you for having me on. Take care thank you very much you can hear all of Beth Fisher's amazing work across ITV during the tournament. Right, next game's in Group D, come on Wednesday the 9th of July.

So England against the Netherlands is 5 o'clock British Summer Time in Zurich, France-Wales at 8 o'clock in St. Gallen. Before we go, we need to take a quick look at the two Group C fixtures that took place on Friday. So Sweden beat a resilient Denmark 1-0 thanks to a second half goal from Philippe Angledahl. Germany meanwhile eventually broke down Poland who were brilliant in the first half to earn a 2-0 victory. Goals from Julia Brand and Leah Schuller there. It wasn't pretty from Sweden, Freddie, but important to get that opening victory against a vastly improved Denmark.

No, I think it was 6-0, wasn't it, when Sweden beat Denmark in the Nations League. So I think Denmark will be quite pleased with that. They were set up to defend, really. They sort of left the likes of senior Bruun on the bench, which I was a little bit surprised about, but you know, sort of that back five, they, you know, they kept the likes of Black Stenius pretty quiet. But I think Sweden will just be pleased, you know, to get them on over the line and what is quite a tough group. I think their game against Germany will be quite interesting. I had them down as a bit of a dark horse before the tournament Sweden. I don't know how much they've helped that because you know they weren't particularly exciting. It wasn't the best game as has been the theme in sort of the earlier kick-offs and it's been a bit hotter but you know I think they

deserve to get over the line. Yeah, Poland gave Germany a bit of a scare didn't they Suzie, we were quite excited about Poland in our group chat. What did you make of the game overall? Yeah they were great, looked really well coached, well organized and they've got such a potent outlet in Iwapai O'Jour as well up front which I think is a really big help when you're putting in a really cohesive defensive display like that that you've got that outlet that can offer something on the break and I think they put in a really really resilient fight obviously we know this Germany

side are good I think a lot of people think that they could go far in this tournament but yeah like they were like making a really good account of themselves in their in their debut tournament for sure. Yeah next in group C, Tuesday they're all playing. I feel like poor group C gets a little bit less of our attention because they're in England's and Wales's side of the draw but the next games are on Tuesday the 8th of July so Germany played Denmark five o'clock in Basel and Poland faced Sweden at eight o'clock in Lucerne. By the way

Wafcon got underway in Morocco the hosts salvaged a draw against Zambia the other day competitive, it finished two all in the end. Orlando Pride's Barbara Banda made an immediate impact with a goal inside the first minute, but Morocco quickly hit back from the spot through Ibtasim Zahraidi. Rachel Kundanandji fired the Copper Queens back in front before halftime before the hosts rallied and Jelaine Chabac made sure they took something from the game in the 87th minute. Wild celebrations there will keep you up to date with everything going on in the Women's African Cup of Nations.

Of course, Freddie it's been lovely to see you again. Hopefully see you soon. Dream of those mountains. I will do, always a pleasure. Suzie, enjoy your fondue. Well first training, so we'll go and do that and then go for fondue. Just think of the fondue. We'll be back on Tuesday to review the next two days worth of fixtures. Keep having your say, send in your questions via social media or email us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com and as ever a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts sign up. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura

Iredale. Our executive producer is Salamat.