The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - England gear up for Euro 2025 title defence as Wales prepare for historic debut – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzanne Wrack, Sophie Downey and Laura McAllister to preview England and Wales’ chances at Euro 2025

This is The Guardian. They aren't out in the open. Why is it so much civilized? Uncovering a global criminal underworld that reaches far beyond India's borders. There are so many rumors. No one wants to talk. There might be repercussions. World of Secrets, the killing call. Listen on the BBC app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, I'm Faker Rothers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. It's here! Well, almost five days to the opening game kicking off and we're bringing you our first preview of the 2025 European Championships. We're going to focus on the Lionesses' preparations

as they build up to their farewell match against Jamaica and look at their chances in a tough-looking Group D. Wales are in that same group, so as they prepare for their first major tournament, we'll be speaking to Laura McAllister to find out how the players are feeling before they head to Switzerland. All that, plus we'll take your questions,

and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Oh what a panel we have today we're gonna speak to Laura in part two but Susie Rack how you feeling? Have you got that Eve of Tournament feeling yet? Yeah the Eve of Tournament annoyance where you're just sort of sick of talking about the tournament and just want it to start because you want to talk about the actual football and not just what's coming up and all of the possibles and hypotheticals like, which we're going to do now. So I'm like really slamming on this podcast that I like, do not enjoy this part of things anymore. Yeah. Like if you've, if you've reached this point, you have done well yeah so yeah I'm ready for the football to start. I think we need to

get you to record all of our promos from now on without a doubt. Sophie Downey how are you what hat do you have on your head today and I have to say Switzerland is looking beautiful behind you. Yeah Switzerland is beautiful it's very hot I'm wearing my England red roses hat today so I'm going to the egg shape ball with my hat on. But fully on the normal shape ball for the coming tournament it's going to be very, very fun. I was in Zurich yesterday and you can start to see the banners coming up and there's little bits and pieces of the Euros everywhere around the city so it's going to be very fun I think.

Excellent, so where are you then right now? I'm just outside of Zurich, I'm in a place called Oberstringen which is like 15 minutes from the centre. It's just a bit more suburb-y so I've got a few hills behind me, a river behind me so it's nice. It looks dreamy I have to say. Right, as I said Laura McAllister is joining us in part two to discuss Wales chances but let's kick off with the Lionesses three years on from that famous win at Wembley England looking to defend their European title in Switzerland this summer and it is going to be a tough ass for the Lionesses particularly being drawn in group D along with France the Netherlands

and of course Wales. Those preparations those those dreaded preparations, Susie, almost complete. You've been in and around the camp for the last couple of weeks. I hate this question in general, but it's important on the eve of a tournament. What's the mood like as the tournament nears? I mean, it seems fairly positive. Like when you're around the players, they all seem excited. They're very much like this is a new era it's not the same England it was in 2022 like obviously there's been personnel change we know

about the recent exits of players but obviously since that tournament as well you've lost Ellen White and Jill Scott and Rachel Daly too so there has been quite a turnover obviously there's a lot of familiar faces too and imagine the start in 11 will contain a lot of those. But yeah, it is sort of the next edition of England. I was going to say England 2.0, but that's really math and also not kind of true. But yeah, so like, yeah, it's the next iteration of this England team. And like, I think there is like, you know, quite a lot of positivity and stuff around at the moment. Sort of, I would say, almost like hesitant positivity in that obviously England have got a good chance but the group is so tough that I think that everyone is sort of not wanting to kind of lay their cards on the table just yet and say, yes, 100% going

to win, which is what I think everyone is a little bit too scared to say. Yeah let's keep the predictions for the next preview pod I think. It's your seventh major tournament Soph covering the Lionesses. How are you feeling in comparison going into this one? As Suzy says it feels a little bit different. It does feel a bit different. I think probably because of the home one last time round, I think everything about that tournament was incredibly special for English people and English fans. So it does feel a little bit different going into this one. And I think always when you're defending a title, there's an added pressure maybe compared to when you've never won it before. So I do think there's that pressure, but I'm actually feeling pretty good. When I was there at the media day, was it last week,

everyone, as Suzi said, was seen pretty relaxed, chatted to Leah Williamson, Michelle Ajamang, and they all seemed very, very calm. And they were like, just this period is just about getting the working, getting the job done. And then we will know we've done everything we can before the tournament. And I think that's really helpful because players like Lea and George Stanway and Kira Walsh, they've done this so many times before. They've been through this process. They know exactly what it takes to get themselves to the very top in the in-between bit between the end of the season and now. And it's just a period to really kind of bond together, I guess, grow the confidence.

And I've always been unworried by England. I think Susie will know that I'm generally quite a positive person so I think you know yes it's a hugely tough group but I'm pretty excited for what they can do. I think on any given day they can beat any of those teams it just they just need to turn up obviously. Well yeah they do just that small bit of turning up and performing. We talked a lot didn't we in the last pod that we did about the turmoil at the beginning of June, Mary Earp's retiring, Frank Kirby, Millie Bright withdrawing. A little bit of time has passed by now that it feels like it's settled a bit. Is it going to galvanize or disrupt them, Suzy, for one?

That's all. Not for one. The only. Well, I mean, it's sort of impossible to say until we see sort of how they perform in the tournament. I mean, there's potential for disruption, right? Like in that Hannah Hampton is untested in a major tournament of this magnitude and That's gonna be interesting to see like how well she performs whether she has any shaky moments, you know We know she can sometimes like if something doesn't quote go quite right can like sort of crack a little bit after that and be A little bit rattled so like how she responds in major tournament, I think is going to be really, really interesting to see creatively. Frank Kirby is a miss in that sense, although, you know, Serena had said she wasn't taking

her, which is why she has retired. So if she wasn't in the plans anyway, it's sort of not a huge loss. And in addition to that, watching Lauren James train the other day, I was very excited because she looked good. Then, I mean, obviously Millie Bright is a blow, but when you've got Leah Williamson and Alex Greenwood and then behind them, Lotta, Maya Letizier, Esme Morgan, like there's enough depth there for England to cope with that loss, although I think, you know, Millie as a presence is really significant as well. So it's got the potential to be disruptive in that their big names gone, big dressing room presences, like a lot of authority to them and a lot of experience. But this is

an opportunity for players to step up and for this sort of newer generation, these ones that are being trained as professionals from a much earlier age to really show what they're made of. And like, if they can embrace it in the way some of the ones did in 2022, you know, Russo and Toon and stuff, then there's a real opportunity there for it to be a galvanizing thing. So it could be either. And we won't really know until we get into the crux of the football. Yeah, when Serena Vietman took over the job, she was praised for her directness. We knew

what she'd done with the Netherlands squad. All of the players, you know, bar Steph Horton, I would say, who were told in the direct way, whether they were in or out, most of the ones that were in, you know, took it well and praised her directness. However, you know, she was asked about it in the press conference last week and said, sometimes you have very good news and sometimes you don't have good news. And I don't go around the bush with that. I just give that message. Then I can't always control how people respond to that. I just hope they have the clarity to move on. And you can't really argue with that,

but you don't know how people are gonna react. But should the players be used to her by now and used to her directness? And Soph, what did you make of the comments that she made? I have been surprised by the surprise that people are finding that she is direct because we've known this all along. We've known it back from her Dutch days you know it's been one of the biggest qualities and yes along the way you might have people obviously react badly to that but she's never hit

it right she's never been shy about the fact that you know it is definitely a Dutch trait as well I think to be pretty direct with things in general, let alone when you're getting around to squad pickings. And I think for any manager, you know, picking a squad is incredibly hard. And you do have to let people down and you have to give people different roles and people will love it and people won't love it. And that's just a nature. It's that kind of tricky side of the job where you can't keep everyone happy. So I don't really know what has been so much surprise

around it given how long she's been in England. We've known about it for years. And I still think, you know, her major tournament record is ridiculous. You know, two World Cup finals, and then after the last two, two European Championship finals and then after the last two, two European Championship finals and two European Championship wins in the last two that she's been in.

So, I mean her record speaks for itself at what she does at major tournaments as a manager. I know there's been some criticism around of some tactics and stuff like that, but you know, when she comes down to major tournaments, that's what she's about and I would still rather have her at the helm, I think, than anyone else in Europe at this stage in time, just because she is that manager, that coach, to be able to get them over the line and know exactly what they need to do to get there. When you look at England's World Cup run, the amount of injuries, the amount of disruption that there wasn't in the squads at that time because of the injuries and she managed to galvanize them and get them ready and she adapted, you know, the starting lineup because she had to despite when in Euro 2022 she had the starting 11,

same starting 11 every single game. You know, she's shown she's adaptable that people don't, I think sometimes don't give her credit for. She's brought through a lot of young players in the last four years or three years that I think was also not her credit for. She's brought through a lot of young players in the last four years or three years that I think was also not given credit for. So I think some of the myths about her aren't always that true. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's very interesting. And you mentioned those injuries is kind of the reverse situation of where we found ourselves for the World Cup two years ago. There were those big injuries but now Lauren James, Lauren Hemp, Georgia Stanway and Alex Greenwood have all recovered and

Vigman therefore is able to pick her strongest 11. How is that going to help Suzy and do you think she knows where starting 11 is yet? Oh yeah I think she does and I think we'll get a pretty clear indication of it in the Jamaica game because there's no real sort of build up in the group in terms of like the opposition you're going to face. There's no room to grow into the competition basically. You're straight off like playing tough games. So you can't kind of come in slightly complacent. When you look at the sort of slower start in Australia or even at the Euros in 2022, a 1-0 win over Austria, but it wasn't like a really, really kind of comprehensive performance. It looked a little bit hesitant and there's no room for that. So they've got the opportunity with this Jamaica friendly to sort of use that

as a little bit of a run in to the tournament to try and get a bit of momentum. So I think we will see as close to starting 11 as is possible for that match. So we'll get a good indication there. Like I say, like Lauren James the other day in training when they had an hour and a half long open training with a load of scores there, the players coming out in their replica kits of their grassroots clubs, which was really, really sweet. And, you know, watching that full open training session, it was just the return of Lauren James was just so, so noticeable. I mean, her like her quality, her like the way she takes down a ball, the way she moves plus players with it, you know, the way she can just take a couple of touches and, and

take three players out of a game. I mean, it's just, she's so, so significant. So for her to be back and looking good, I think is really, really, really exciting. I just really hope that she can be match fit and ready for the opening game. And, you know, on the evidence we saw, she looked very good, but that's just one training session. So I hope there's enough in her body to get her through a tournament. In terms of Lauren Hem, George Stanwy, Alex Greenwood, again they've all looked really great when they've come into the squad, like surprisingly so given the amount of time they've been out for. I suppose there's benefits to time away from the pitch as well in that you come back with a freshness in you but obviously building up that match fitness isn't quite there. The benefit England

have in that respect is that obviously a 23-player squad, that's two starting 11s and they can play very, very competitive games against each other internally, which I think is a big bonus. The quality across that squad means that those training sessions will have a level of competitiveness and intensity that some other countries won't be able to benefit from in the same way. So there are good signs, particularly Lauren Hemp in the past couple of games I think has looked like she's not been away, which is significant. But then obviously we know that midfield is a little light looking, so Stanway and how she looks come the tournament is really, really important. And then with no Millie Bright Alex Greenwood really needs to like be in the swing of things

straight away so it's a big test of those players and their fitness levels and stuff and their recovery but I'm just like so so so happy that they're all back and I think they would you know they should all be in the starting 11 you would think and that England will be hugely the better for having them back. What do you think are the biggest strengths and weaknesses to this England side, Soph? Now we know the 23 going out there. I think the experience is huge. I think the fact that you've got so many players who have played at major tournaments before, but also a good cohort from the winning side at Euro 2022 who are now

like still in the prime of their careers. You're looking at Leo Williamson, you're looking at Lesley Russo, you know they they've really stepped up in in the years. Well Lesley Russo has you know made herself from a substitute to a starter in the years since and she's arguably in the form of her career so I think that's really important's experience in these situations is so important because being away at a international tournament is so different from, you know, your friendlies and camps, you know, every six weeks. It's such a different environment.

You have to learn how to be off the pitch as well as on the pitch. And to have that under your belt is as important as the stuff on the pitch in a way. I think they have an adaptability about them that isn't always recognized. You've seen it when they beat Spain this year in February. Their ability to give up on their maybe possession-based principles when it needs to happen and put in that kind of performance. They've got that under their belt now, right? And they can

draw on that to know that they can do it against a team like Spain, who are arguably the favourites going into this. They always say it was a really English performance, and I think that ability to dig in and grit it out is such an important side to the game. Yes, you want to be playing with the ball and you want to be playing pretty football, but sometimes in these situations, you need to be able to just dig in and find a result.

And I do think in terms of their attacking strength, they've got a lot of it. You're looking at Lauren Hemp, you've got Lauren James, as Susie said, on her day, Leah Williamson called her a cheat code, didn't she? Like, she is that player that, I know some people were saying they wouldn't take her because she wasn't fit.

You take Lauren James, even if she's, you know, 85% fit, if she has a chance of playing the tournament, because she can light up a game and she can change it on a pinhead. So you've got really, and then off the bench, I think the youth provided a bit of an unknown, yes, Aggy Beaver Jones plays week in, week out, but someone like Michelle Ajumang, who might not see all that many minutes minutes but no one really knows much about her right she has that element of surprise when she comes on and I think that's super important. In terms of weaknesses I mean that the midfield is light if something happens there I say it to Kiera Walsh

like we had that fear at the World Cup then there are problems but I do think Serena's been trying different things in the last few years you know Georgia Stanway's been playing in the six a fair amount, getting her ready. You've kind of got the option of having Leah Williamson drop into the midfield. Mea Letizia I think could also play in that position. So there are options there if you do need to switch things around. And then the other weakness for me is the left-back role. I think we haven't quite nailed that down in terms of finding the strongest person for it.

Niamh Charles had a really good season last year, has had a less good season this year, so can she find her form again? Or will it be Jess Carter, who is playing out with Gotham at the moment, that kind of steps into that role. I think that's where my question marks are. How to solve a problem like left-back? Feels like history repeating. It's painful. that's where my question marks are. How to solve a problem like left-back? It feels like history repeating. It's painful. We've got seven players playing in their first major

tournament. How much impetus and excitement do they provide from the bench, Susie? I mean, you mentioned, and so did Soph, what Ella Toon and Alessia Russo brought from the bench last time out. But who's got that this time? It's the unpredictability, right? I think that's so important. And that's what Tootin and Russo were able to provide in 2022 is, you know, not many countries played against them, not many countries knew of them because you don't necessarily kind of focus a huge amount on sort of the more fringe players of a team in a country that you don't necessarily watch all the league games of. So there's just an element of surprise there and a physicality there in terms of like

youth off the bench right like it's cliched but they come with energy and a little bit of a fearlessness I think Soph mentioned that earlier as well a little bit of a fearlessness to them too like it was interesting the England media day we had like each set of players were, the players were paired up around this room and we could go and speak to them in their pairs and Leah Williamson was paired up with Michelle Ajiman and Michelle was just so cool and calm and relaxed and just like really taking it all in her strides despite being 19 despite you know going from a ball girl to you know a euros squad within Serena's tenure like it's a phenomenal rise but she's just so chill and there was a nice moment where Leah was being asked about Michelle's qualities and she

said that she just brings something different. And I think that is the key is she's a very different style of forwards to the other forwards we've got available in this squad. And that's a really like exciting thing to have that, that slightly different energy off the bench. And then also having Aggie who's been in really, really fine form, those pair sort of with Russo really, really kind of offer quite an exciting young forward line, obviously then with all of the wide talent that England has available. And then when you look at sort of some of the others, obviously we're unlikely to see some of the goalkeepers unless heaven forbid something happens to Hannah because

that would be a real disaster. But then you're looking at sort of the likes of Jess Park and Grace Clinton who you know both have been doing supremely well for their clubs, United and City, and you know have really sort of slotted into England when they've been called upon to do so in a like in a really really great way And Grace Clinton has been a really, really intelligent addition to the side and just has such drive and again that fearlessness when she has an England shirt on and then you're looking at the likes of Mère Letizier, like again, what a phenomenally talented player and able to fill in in numerous different positions. That's another point, right? There's a real adaptability to a lot of the playing squad,

like loads of them play in different positions and I think that's a real strength of England. I think that's a lot of the reason why some of these players get picked is that they have the ability to slot in at various positions as so said, Leah can play midfield and defence although who cares you would have her at defence even if that was all she could do. But yeah, some of these younger ones are really, really sort of like kind of multi-talented in that sense in different positions and that's a real useful thing to have in a squad player when you sort of kind of don't really know what's going to happen. But yeah, they are exciting. They bring unpredictability, enthusiasm, energy and that bit of fearlessness.

Let's look at England's form, Soph, because I think it's fair to say it's been a bit up and down, hasn't it, over the last season? 1-5, including beating Spain, drawn 2, lost 3 against Germany, Belgium and Spain. They do play Jamaica in a friendly on Sunday. We know what the reggae girls bring, that they're a brilliant side. It's a great warm-up game for them, I think. But where does this build up leave them for the start of the tournament? I don't think they will be too concerned. If I'm looking at those losses, that one to Belgium is the one that stands out as the one that really shouldn't have happened. You can beat and lose to Germany and Spain. They will continue to win games

against them. They'll continue to lose to them. It's the nature of top class international football. Those two teams are right at the top of their game, as is England. I think England have always been a bit funny out of tournament, especially, you know, since I would say 2017, even 2015. The build-up to 2015 was not particularly great when England won the bronze medal at the World Cup and they had a really dire draw with Canada just before the tournament started and then they went and won the bronze medal and I think the same pattern has happened at times in all of the major tournaments since and They've never finished worse in the semi-finals since that point

So I think England do know how to turn it on when it gets into tournament mode. They know what is needed They know that they have to dig in it's not always going to be the prettiest prettiest football at times That's not what tournament football is about but they know how to get the job done. And I do think the intervening times, bar maybe the start of Serena Vigman's tenure at England when they went on that 33 unbeaten game run, has generally been a little bit iffy until they get into the major tournament and then they can turn it on. So I do think they can draw on that more than looking at everything that's happened in the last two years, because there's been so many ups and downs, right? So many injuries, disruptions, players in and out of the squad.

They've been missing their three key players for six months of this year, pretty much until, you know, the, like, the last camp. So Lauren James has been in and out of the squad. Leo Williamson only came back in November last year. There's been so many problems I think they will try and park that to one side and not think about it too much and just be fully confident that they're in the right place now that the tournament is about to begin. Yeah that's a really good point. We've talked a lot about the group that England are in, Suzie, one of the group of deaths,

but you expect that in a tournament, but it's particularly difficult it feels this time round. France, Netherlands and then Wales. How do you expect them to approach these opponents and maybe leave Wales out of it because we're going to talk about Wales with Laura in a moment? Yeah, I mean, it's a really tricky group, there's just no escaping it and it really sort of depends which sort of French team shows up. They've got the personnel and the ability to be a really really dangerous team but then also you know we know they've been pretty chaotic around major tournaments and disappointed

and underachieved a little bit for the quality that's in their side. So yeah, it's that sort of depends on that. I think the in a way, weirdly, there is something that favours England in playing big opponents at major tournaments because the games are more open. You know, like in sort of recent years and historically England have generally struggled a little bit more against the teams that sit back against them and don't give them much room to play. So I think the opportunity to score is going to be there. It's just whether we have the quality and the ability to be able to take those chances when we get them.

And yes, the answer is England do have that ability and quality in the side to be able to do that but it obviously is easy to say on paper and less hard to do in reality. So I think those games will be quite open and very like, will go either way basically and the fact that both teams will want to attack, will want to control the ball, will want to dominate, will create space for the other team to be able to play into as well. So I think they're going to be very exciting games from that point of view, but incredibly tricky. And obviously we've talked about England's defence quite extensively in the past and with no Millie Bright obviously there are questions to be asked about whether the balance is there. Obviously Leah and Alex are supremely talented players and have played

together in the past but it is a little bit of a new look centre-back partnership in terms of recent season. So it will be interesting to see how that copes against some of these very very fast paced and tricky attacks of both France and Netherlands. Obviously we're going into Wales later, but I also think that the sort of home nation rivalry means that that is by no means a straightforward game and then you add in the fact that Wales are a really united group and have a lot of quality in them too and can really frustrate teams and it's by far from the easy game in the group. So yeah, I sort of think that in a way there is going to be far more opportunity for England to really make a mark against

those big teams but I am a little bit worried about the three games. They're all tough, none of them are, there's not a straightforward game in there. No. Okay, I've got a final question for both of you. I don't want predictions at this stage, I can't cope with it, I can't deal with the stress of knowing whether our predictions continue to stay terrible or if we're going to buck the trend and get them right, I just can't deal with it. so let's save that, park it. I just want to know what you think would be a successful tournament for England, because we know how difficult defending a title is. Bearing in mind the ups and downs and where we're at at this point, what looks like success in your eyes, Soph? For me, I think it's reaching a semi-final. There is so much at play in tournament football

where you can be the best team on the planet and you need a bit of luck to go with it, right? And yeah, I think there is, like, it's, it's, it's, um, anything unexpected can happen in major tournaments that you don't know about. So I would go semi-finals. I know everyone wants to win. I certainly want England to win. I'm massively behind them, but at the same time, I think you have to be realistic about these things as well. I know that things can pop up along the way, but I think a semi-final is a reasonable ambition to get to. Susie?

Yeah, I'd be delighted with a semi-final. I think that would easily be viewed as a success. I've written this a fair few times actually and build up stuff that, like, not everything can go in a straight line upwards forever. Like, there are a lot of teams in Europe, there are a lot of teams in the world and, you know, there are ebbs and flowed of teams as well and, you know, there's going to be backwards steps to move forward and there's going to be stagnation and there's going to be, steps to move forward and there's going to be stagnation and there's going to be sometimes you could be playing your best football but another team is just better, right? And that's fine, not everyone can win and you can sometimes

set expectations a little bit too high in that sense in that we can't expect perpetual success off the back of one victory. You're being very reasonable for a football fan, Susie Rack. Well that's our job isn't it, to be more balanced. But I am worried about the group and if they don't get out of the group then that will be a massive failure. If they get out of the group, to be honest, like that group, as long as they get out of that group then they could go all the way because that group is so tough, it sets the standard that no one else could potentially match and momentum is so critical in a major tournament. So I sort of think anything beyond the group is possible, but success would ideally be

at least the semi-final. Right, well we shall see. That's it for part one. In part two, we're going to have an in-depth look at Wales as they prepare to make history. World of Secrets, The Killing Call. A BBC World Service investigation into the murder of Punjabi singer and rapper Siddhu Musseala. The facts, they aren't out in the open. Why is Siddhu Musseala, you know?

Uncovering a global criminal underworld that reaches far beyond India's borders. There are so many rumours. No one wants to talk. There might be repercussions. World of Secrets, their killing call. Listen on the BBC app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello Guardian Women's Football Weekly fans, it's Faye here. I just need to let you know we've been having a little bit of a heatwave over here in the UK and I have had very much a computer says no system with one of my recording devices overheating. So the second part of

this pod is going to sound slightly different. All I can do is apologise for that and I hope it doesn't affect your listening pleasure too much. Enjoy. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So when Angarad James leads Wales out against the Netherlands on the 5th of July, it's Football Weekly. So when Angarad James leads Wales out against the Netherlands on the 5th of July, it's gonna be a momentous occasion for the country because they're taking part

in their first ever major tournament. To take an in-depth look at what we can expect from Rhian Wilkinson's side this summer, we've brought in a very special guest, Laura McAllister, of course, intrinsically linked to the Welsh football team, quite the CV as well just indulge me a second while I list some of these amazing accolades a former international player now vice president on UEFA's executive committee and professor of public policy at Cardiff University's Wales Governance Centre I mean we could be here all day listing all

your roles Laura it's so lovely to see you, how are you? Oh it's lovely to see you too, Faye Borreda from Wales. I'm really excited, is the best description at the moment, a bit overwhelmed with some of the work we're doing media-wise but what a privilege to be in that position to have so much interest in our country and our first participation at a major tournament. Absolutely. And I have to say you are very, very on brand currently with a Wales background on your Zoom, which is incredible. It is a historic moment for Welsh women's football. You said you're excited, but what are your emotions going to be like

once we get to Lucerne when the national anthem plays in your opening match? Well I've got a bit of other Swiss travel first because obviously in my UEFA role I head out early, head out on Monday to Basel and then we have events around the opening game so I'll be in Basel for a few days then I'll catch another game on Thursday and then match day minus one. I'm redirecting all my attention back to Cymru, back to Wales because obviously my work within Wales gives me the opportunity to meet with some of our partners and our sponsors and Welsh Government and so on. But I think by the time the match happens on Saturday, my nerves are gonna be shredded for sure.

My family will have joined me and my two daughters by then. So they're already beyond excitement at what lies ahead. And it's the question I get asked most actually, what will your emotions be when Hayran Rodman had our iconic anthem plays. And it's hard to imagine. I mean, I'm going to be emotional, there's no doubt about that, but I'm on duty as well. You know, I'm there with my UEFA role. So I hope I can hold it together to be honest, you know, but it is going to be an emotional moment because it's

been a long time coming and there's going to be a big outpouring of relief and joy, I think is the best way of describing it. Susie, it has been an incredible journey to get to this point for Wales, qualifying of course through that playoff against the Republic of Ireland, fell at that point on so many occasions previously, recently played in Nations League A, getting relegated, but putting some really good performances. How do you think they're actually shaping up ahead of the tournament and bear in mind Laura's

with us right now? I mean it's really exciting isn't it because I think you know I was among many who didn't necessarily think that Wales would reach this point. I think Ireland were the favourites going into the play-off and it was a really nice surprise when Wales came through that game and it shows the grit and resilience of the team, but also what a collective can do because you would argue on paper that Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, player for player, are a better team. But when you've got a great unit and obviously a phenomenal sort of figurehead in Jess Fishlock who sort of really is able to bring them together I think there's then something special can happen. I

mean it's just a shame that they're drawn in such a tough group but I actually really fancy them to potentially poop England's party a little bit which is slightly horrible to say. And I mean, Laura, you need to know in advance that my predictions are phenomenally bad. So like, that's not necessarily a good thing. But yeah, I sort of have a good feeling that none of them are going to be straightforward games for England, France and the Netherlands. I think it's going to be really, really tricky and really interesting to see the work that Wales have been doing lately to prepare themselves particularly defensively for facing those teams. I'm going to ask you about the group in a minute, Laura, but Susie mentioned Jess Fislock there. She is Ms Wales, isn't she? Although I think you give her a run for her money in that, but you know, we're in the kind of, to put it politely, the twilight years of her career at the age

of 38. But I mean, how incredible for her international bow to be at this age on the European stage. And it's just brilliant that she gets to show what she can do on that platform. Oh of course, I mean I've known Jess since she was seven when she came along as a skinny little nipper to a my club, Cardiff City, as part of a champion coaching scheme that the local council ran and I can just remember her coming up. She looked younger than seven because she was always a small kid but you could see straight away that she was going places you know she had all the technical skills and all the sass and confidence that you can imagine really and what what a career I mean you know in my view she's

one of the probably the best 10 players ever to play the women's game globally because if you look at where she's played and how she's played and you know she's won some accolades across the world you know from Asia to Europe to North America and it's right that she gets a chance now to strut her stuff on the international stage with her beloved Cymru Wales. I mean I've never known a player who was as passionate about representing her country as Jess. She's done those air miles you know across the Atlantic just to play in friendlies. I don't think many international players would have traveled

in the way Jess has to represent her country. It means everything to her. And in fact, that's sort of emblematic of this squad. I mean, Susie's right, you know, on paper people could underestimate Wales because it's easy to say there are better players in other squads. But what we have that a lot of international teams don't have is a real togetherness, a real kind of sisterhood, if you like. And that's what gives us confidence about the Euros.

If you look at the men's team back in 2016, they were in the same position that the women's team are now. Nobody expected Wales to do particularly well. And yet we got to the semi-finals, and I hate to say it, guys, much further than England did. position that the women's team are now. Nobody expected Wales to do particularly well and yet we got to the semi-finals and I hate to say it guys, much further than England did and you know we did that not because we had the best players in the Euro, we had some of them. Gareth Bale is the equivalent of Jess Fischlok but we had a togetherness and a great team spirit and a real organisation to the team and by the way a good coach and I I'm gonna stick my neck out now and say, I think we've got the best coach in the Euros.

I have never met a leader in sport as impressive as Rhianne Wilkinson. She is phenomenal. And I mean that in every sense. I mean, on the pitch technically as a coach, but actually more importantly, as a leader of people and a leader of women. She's one of the most intelligent coaches I've ever spoken to. She understands the game.

She also understands the person itself and that's what she's been able to invest in. So if you put all that together this is why we are quietly confident about what we're gonna do in this Euro. Yeah talk about her being impressive. I mean what a decision. I'm going to announce the squad at the top of Mount Snowdon to give a metaphor about the mountain we're climbing. Did she come up with that idea herself or was it? No, I don't think she's going to claim that. I mean that came from one of our very impressive comms team. We've got, again, I think we've got one of the most creative comms teams anywhere

in Europe. You know, they're all very young. They think about images and how things appeal. And Uryzva, which is the name we use for Snowden, is obviously an iconic mountain, but it ties in with a lot of the history of the women's national team. Obviously, all of us who came before this generation had to battle and climb steep mountains to get to where we got to now.

And it's also a very personal thing for Rhianne because, you know, Rhianne is half Welsh and she has a lot of family connections with the area and the mountain itself, which she talked about during Squad launch. And she's somebody who understands Welsh identity. You know, we're a smallish nation, 3.1 million people, second smallest nation in the Euro after Iceland, but we've got an incredible unity of national identity and the landscape, the languages of Wales, the flag,

by the way, name me a better flag in the Euro than the Welsh one. You can keep your blocks of color. You know, we got a dragon on ours. That sums up what we're all about. Rhian really taps into that and the players love her for that. Yeah, my son votes your flag the best. He loves the dragon. Talking about that squad announcement, Suzy, three Centurions including Sophie Engel, who's just recovered from that ACL injury in time. What did you make of her selection in particular?

Well, it's just brilliant news because she's so important in terms of experience and top level winning experience and what it takes to create a culture that wins and has that sort of extra factor about it, right, as being part of Chelsea and such a phenomenally successful period of time under Emma Hayes. Obviously she was injured in, I think it was pre-season friendly, wasn't it, in September and the fact that she's fought back to be fit to play in this tournament is really quite phenomenal, particularly at 33, you know, recovery as you get older as we all our aging bones know is not is not as fast.

I'm going backwards. What are you talking about? I'm trying. I'm trying. Yeah. So yeah, I think like hugely important from that point of view. But then also like when you're talking about the teams that they're playing against and the firepower they're playing against having her anchoring midfield and sitting in front of that back line, I think is so, so critical to marshal the back line, it's her sat in front of them. So I think like, yeah, from a leadership point of view and a, her position

as well on the pitch and the experience that she brings like in that role is just so important. I just, I can't like overstate how significant her return is. It shares a load as well, right? Because a lot of responsibility falls on Jess Fishlock as the you know the senior head in that group and one of the most experienced player, well probably the most experienced player, you know a lot of responsibility falls on her shoulders so to be able to split that load up a little bit I think really matters and key positions through the the spine of the team as well you know those two I think really really like add so much strength to

them. Mm. Susie mentioned the draw earlier, Laura, it is kind of elephant in the room, isn't it? They're in group D with England, France and the Netherlands. How are they going to be approaching these kind of three massive sides? And what are you expecting from the England-Wales game? Is it going to be this party poop that Susie predicts that we don't trust her predictions? Well, I hope Susie's right, but we're not thinking about the England game right now, obviously because our opening game is against the Netherlands. Everything's trained on that.

The team are out in Portugal warm weather training, our prepping for the, for traveling into Switzerland on Sunday. But yeah, it's a tough group, look. But in a way, there are benefits from being drawn in a very tough group, because everyone takes points off each other. And sometimes the least favored country finds a path through that.

And that's gotta be our hope, of course. I mean, we're the lowest ranked nation at the Euro, you know these are just facts so let's not be scared of them. We're the lowest ranked nation there but we've improved exponentially during the course of the Nations League. I mean we held Sweden to draws in Gothenburg and in Wrexham. And, you know, I was at both games and, you know, in Gothenburg, talking to the Swedish technical team, they were very, very impressed with how we played. And we had most of our big players

missing in that game as well. So what Rhian has done very cleverly is she's brought the young players into the squad and given them game time. So we've got a 23 that, you know, she's confident in. And I think some coaches wouldn't do that. They'd take six players 23 that you know she's confident in and I think some some coaches wouldn't do that they take six players that you know really they don't want to use particularly whereas Rhian has used every player that he's got

including the goalkeepers by the way who are all under 23 now how rare is that to have three keepers that are that age but you know we know we're not favorites but we go into the Netherlands game to get something out of it. Okay. And once we've got something out of that game, the group opens up because, you know, we then go on to play France. If you catch France at their very best, it'll be a struggle for us. But France are often not at their very best. Okay. And that will give us an opportunity then. And then as Susie says, we come into the England game and it might be all to play for an opportunity then. And then as Susie says, we come into the England game

and it might be all to play for in that game. And if I wasn't Welsh, okay, if I was a neutral, I know which side I'd rather be on in that game because all the pressure's on England, not on Wales. So let's hope it pans out that way, but make no mistake, we're not kidding ourselves. We're the lowest ranked nation in the group and in the Euro. On paper it shouldn't be us that comes through, but Rhian Wilkinson and the players are incredibly

confident because we're as well prepared as we could. And if we keep everybody fit, we've got a little bit of magic from players like Jess obviously, but also Kerry Holland who doesn't get mentioned much. In my opinion, one of the best players in WSL at the moment. These are players that can unlock defenses, Hannah Kane and Leicester who just come back from a serious ACL injury but is on fire. You know we've got these kind of players with a bit of magic as well so you know let's hope that's how it pans out now. So let me ask you what success looks like for Wales in this tournament. Well I think success for us is performance not results.

I think if we perform well results will come. So if we go into the Netherlands game and we perform as well as we can we'll get something out of that game. I know we will. If we don't perform at the absolute best of our ability, then we probably won't get something out of that game and the players will be disappointed. But then it will give us another chance against France and another chance against England.

But Rhianna said that herself, you know, when New Kids on the Block here, it's our first tournament, nobody's expecting us to win it, but we expect to go there and perform and show the world what we're all about. And I think that we'll take care of what the outcome of games will be then. And that's not a bad psychology, I think, as a new country in the Euro. I think success will also be how we portray ourselves

off the pitch. Because for us, you know, we're one of the best supported nations at the Euro. You know, we've sold a lot of tickets to Wales fans. You know what the red wall is like, you know, we're one of the best supported nations at the Euro. You know, we've sold a lot of tickets to Wales fans. You know what the red wall is like, you know, they're passionate fans for the men and women's teams. I think people will see what football means to Wales, and that will help us in the next stage of growth for the women's game here. Yeah, it's all about awareness, isn't it? A lot of the time, you know, as a smaller nation, lots of people don't necessarily, you know, know much about you. So what an opportunity on that stage. Laura's talked, Susie, about some of the players to highlight

and the team spirit in particular. What strengths and weaknesses do you see from the outside with this team? Yeah, I think Laura made some great points about the strengths in particular, like those games against Sweden were really impressive. But then if you go back a little bit before that there was the draw against Germany as well, which was just a few months after they lost 5-1 to Germany. So to be able to walk away with a scoreless draw after a heavy defeat against the same team a few months earlier shows that they've got an adaptability and some really good coaching there that is able to respond to a challenge.

I think the preparation, particularly those games against Sweden, for what they're going to face in the Netherlands, France, Englands of the world is really significant. If they can show the same level of sort of adaptability From one game to the next then I think they've got a really good chance Not walking away from this tournament like really disappointed like I think there is there are points to be taken out of this game And there are goals to be scored that said like in terms of weaknesses I mean obviously Kayleigh Barton, you know, has got a few goals to her name in a Welsh shirt, but beyond that, it's a fairly, fairly low scoring forward line. And I think there's quite a lot of reliance on midfield and Jess Fishlock to sort of step

forward and step into that role. And Holland and, you know, there's, there's a few there who, who kind of have to kind of spread it a little bit. But again, that's, that's both a weakness and a strength, right? In that you don't necessarily know where the goals are going to come from in that sense. Although obviously you can point straight towards a fish lock for that to a certain extent. And then, yeah, I would say, you know, it's, I think there's a misbalance in the squad a little bit in that you've got obviously the older guards, you know, the Jess Fishlocks and the Sophie Ingalls of the world. And then you've got this very, very

new younger group who are like a lot less experienced, you know, may have a fair few caps for Wales under their belt, but it's not, you know, not necessarily a playing at the very, very top level of the game. And that's, I think that's something that's shifting. It's something that's going to change, particularly as the game professionalises and things more generally and they get more and more opportunities. But at the moment there is still that gap in quality where you've got this old guard who, you know, kind of basically defied the odds, right, to be brilliant despite sort of resource and stuff and the professionalism of the game that just have that elite quality like and technical and tactical now and just like instinctive ability versus this this newer group that are coming through with all of that trade

and resource behind them and there's a little bit of a gap between that I would say in terms of like some you know players that bridge that gap but that's I think the nature of the development of the game so like I mean you know obviously you look at goal and two 23 year olds and a 20 year old yeah it's a very young goalkeeping group but there's real quality in that as well in those three players. So yeah there's a lot to like about the team and I think the key is that togetherness and how they play as a team and it's like that group mentality. But obviously they are climbing a mountain and they are going into this tournament as massive, massive underdogs, but it's not like they're not used

to being underdogs and that could really become an emboldening thing and that's what I hope it does. And I hope that Fishlock is able to do something really really special on this stage because I mean I know you know she's getting on a little bit but I hope this the hurt her you know her likely one and only major tournament isn't like a little bit too late in her career for her to be able to like really shine on that stage I hope that she's able to do you know even if even if they do crash out bottom of the group with you know very little on the stage. I hope that she's able to do, you know, even if they do crash out bottom of the group with very little on the board, I hope that she's able to have a moment in this tournament that really wakes up the world to what a phenomenal talent she

is and what a brilliant servant she's been to the game as a whole. So yeah, it's exciting, right? Because there's nothing to lose, but a lot to be gained for Welsh women's football. Yeah. There's a fearlessness, by the way, to younger players, especially on a stage like this, that means there's a little bit of maverick in there, I think, at times. And actually, I am one of those people. I think Susie is the same. I'm not England all the way. I am very much, I want the home nations to do well. So I will be cheering on Wales. And I was actually gutted when you

got drawn in the same group as us, because I like to have, you know, skin in the game on both sides. But you know, I think you're going to win over some people in your time for sure. And I just want to finish actually Laura on something that you touched on earlier on and Susie mentioned just there and that is what it can do for Wales as a nation in general because we've seen the squad announcement, we've seen the send off in Cardiff, we've seen the Addidas pitch size mural dedication to Jess Fishlock. How is everybody feeling in Wales at the moment? Well, you know, there is a massive, massive excitement that even I didn't expect at this

stage. I hadn't quite, I was optimistic that there would be incredible buy-in to the exploits of the women and enthusiasm as we approached the tournament. But what has pleased me more than anything is how, you know, genuine football fans who maybe haven't seen a women's game before are all talking about the squad, they know the players, they understand an iconic player like Jess and so on. And that has been built up, of course, in a kind of structured way because we've been very fortunate to be able to connect with a lot of organizations and we're still

Welsh government funding admittedly cultural organizations we've got a poet traveling out with us we've got a DJ we've got a fan walk to the stadium with the Dutch planned we've got cultural events around all of the games and that's because the identity of Welsh football is really central to national identity in Wales. And it means so much to us as a nation. So what we always do when Wales are in any major tournament is we come together as a nation.

We've got watch parties in every town and city in Wales. And, you know, again, sometimes all this goes under the radar in the bigger kind of UK picture because England expect to be every tournament and they are almost every tournament because you're a big nation and it's different for us and so when we do get there we invest I think more smartly in the impact for the whole nation but of course the biggest thing of all though Faye is the You know, what will this do for women's football in Wales? And people always ask that, as if we've just started thinking about that when we qualified.

You know, we've had a strategy for the development of the game, you know, in place for a long time. And what this will do, it will accelerate what we're doing to professionalize and strengthen the game. But fundamentally, every little girl in Wales that gets excited about seeing the team play, the Netherlands and France and England, has to have a route to play football and so it's about pitches which we've already invested in. It's about feminizing

facilities around pitches. It's about more coaches who are women, more referees and officials who are women, more clubs that are you know focused on the girls and women's game and all of that is train, but what the tournament will do is give it a massive, massive impetus and push forward. And that's success as well, by the way. I mean, as Susie said, worst case scenario, we don't perform on the pitch and we don't pick up points. Don't think that'll happen, by the way,

but that's the worst case scenario. But even then we will have a powerful legacy for the women's game. And that's what real sustainable growth is about in the women's game, I think. Yeah, I think you're absolutely spot on. It's going to be fascinating. I can't wait to see you and particularly I'm going to get goosebumps on your behalf as the national anthem is played on that first game. Thank you so much for joining us. Best of luck. I'm sure you'll see Susie in Switzerland and I look forward to seeing you at some point in Wales. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Hopefully see you in Switzerland, Susie.

Yeah, should do. We've got Louise Taylor covering all of Wales's games but I'll obviously be at the England one. So yeah, we'll catch you there. Yeah, take care, have a good day. Bye bye. Right, so we've gone through England and Wales. We are gonna have another preview on Monday, focusing on all the other teams in the tournament. But in the meantime, please familiarize yourselves with the Guardian's incredible interactive guide

to the 368 players who are taking part. It's a fascinating insight into all of those who are looking to make their name in Switzerland. It really is a thing of beauty, Susie. Oh yeah, it's absolutely stunning. We've done it for every major tournament for some years now and it's what the guidance does for men's tournaments as well is profile every single player taking part in the tournament so you can really get to know some of the players that you've never heard of before. What's's wonderful is it's done by the experts network which we organise, which is we've

got a network of journalists in all of the countries taking part in any major tournament and it's a real sort of like knowledge share. So they'll have written, you know, a journalist from Finland for example will have done all of the profiles of the Finland team and also done our main team preview for Finland too. And then they can use all of this great resource back in Finland and we can use it all here and share it widely as well. So yeah, it's a really, really wonderfully in-depth thing done by experts in their respective countries. And yeah, it is stunningly beautiful it is it is stunningly beautiful. It really is stunningly beautiful and actually I mean and you're going to hear me you're going

to get bored of me saying this now because you're probably going to hear me on ads throughout this pod telling you about the Guardian Women's Euro 2025 supplement as well which you can get with this Saturday's paper we're recording this on Friday by the way so Saturday is the day to go out and get that. It's got the supplement inside, ultimate guide to the tournament as you'd expect, team guides, players to watch, an exclusive column as well by Emma Hayes and a pull-out wall chart from the wonderful David Squires as well. Everything you would expect from a Guardian supplement ahead of a tournament. I'm getting excited now, can you tell? My voice tends to get a little bit higher and a little bit faster.

Five days till the tournament kicks off, another preview to come on Monday. Sophie, enjoy that beautiful skyline behind you. I'll speak to you on Monday. I will do, see you Monday. See you later, Susie Rack. Listen, can you tell the listeners what you've been trying to do before you head out to Switzerland? I'm trying to clean the entire house. I'm leaving my husband and my son, their birthdays are on the same day. I miss it every time there's a major tournament. So the very least I can do is leave the house looking like slightly cleaner than when we left it so they don't have to deal with that. So yeah, instead of like writing, well actually most of the preview stuff is done, I've got one more thing to do and a few other little bits and pieces and a few phone calls and that kind of stuff. But other than that I will be cleaning toilets and you know like floors and walls and putting stuff away and

dealing with the mess that you can't currently see in shots of this screen. I mean listen, I feel your pain. I currently have a three-year-old trying to get into the studio right now and interrupt this pod as we've been dealing with all morning. The realities of juggling home life and football journalist life, all good fun. Good luck with that. I hope that the bowls are sparkling by the end of the weekend. Keep having your say, send in your questions via social media or email us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com. As ever a reminder as well to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search moving the goalposts sign up. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition

was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Salamat.