The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - England imperious and the USA scrape through – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Sophie Downey and Anita Asante to reflect on England’s incredible 6-1 win over China

This is The Guardian. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. England can't score. I'm sorry, what? Rewind. England have entered the World Cup building and Lauren James is announcing herself on the world stage with a megaphone. The Lionesses score six past China to book their place in the last 16,

while Denmark join them after beating Haiti. Have the USA lost their favourites tag, though? The world champions scrape through to the knockout stages, while the flying Dutch women, a.k.a. the Netherlands, sail through, scoring seven against Vietnam. We'll discuss all that, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel,

the only phone engineered by Google and proud partner of the England teams. Search Google Store to find out more. I mean, dreamy, dreamy panel here. To almost quote you, Susie Rack, what the chuff are you going to lino cut now? Far too many goals. Yeah, it's a tough one as well, especially as I did Lauren James' celebration for the last one.

It's just going to be basically, when I put them all together, a massive Lauren James collage. Maybe I can make it all into the shape of her face. Yeah, that would be brilliant. I'd love that. That could hang in the Tate. Sophie Downey, that was so much fun, wasn't it? It was. It's finally great to see England score so many goals again. It's been a while.

You look absolutely shattered, bless you. Both of you straight from Adelaide. A long, long day. Anita Asante, first time we've spoken to you this World Cup. How are you doing? I'm doing very well, Faye. Much like everyone else, you know, needing to catch up on sleep.

But yeah, enjoying the tournament, enjoying England's flurry of goals today as well. Yeah, well, that's where we're going to start. In Adelaide, with England beating China 6-1 in Group D. By far the best we've seen from them this tournament. Six goals for Serena Wiegmann's side and an even better one disallowed, which we'll get into, no doubt.

Susie, you were there. How was the game? Fun, a lot of fun. Yeah, I mean, I think from the moment the team sheet dropped, it sort of became very fun because it became very exciting because we've not really seen a huge amount of change to this England side. And it was, you know, not necessarily that you want to see change as well.

Like, you know, it's sort of been all enforced by the number of injuries and stuff and but it's it's quite nice to watch a manager like wave their magic wand over things and try and find solutions to problems and the solution to those problems may not be a like for like swap for a player it may have to be a switch of formation that that adapts to the strengths of the players you've got left in the in the group and yeah so really like exciting to see things shift around and like the coaching staff not afraid to be really really brave with with what they were doing and also then just to see the players really bought into it as well which uh Serena talked a little bit about afterwards too as being really key to it and they you know they had no idea that it would work but they believed it would um so yeah it's uh

yeah thrilling and very very fun yeah it was great fun and listen I don't want to I'm going to talk in a second to Anita our coach as opposed to us pretending we're coaches wishing we were coaches level one coach here thank you very much oh sorry okay well I think I should be you know Serena Veegman's assistant because I did put on Twitter that I did predict a back three and was poo-pooed by everybody about it. And actually it came to fruition. But let's talk about the goals because that's what's been the focus, Sophie, hasn't it?

Goals from open play. How important was it for the Lionesses to get all those goals and which one was your pick? Oof, that's hard. Well, first of all, to answer the first part of the question, it's so important, what, five different goal scorers? For a team that's been struggling in front of goal, and especially from open play, that is absolutely key to boost their confidence. And I thought they were playing with such fluidity and sort of ability to roam around those forward

areas. You know, Roosu was able to drop deeper than she had before to affect the play. She was being supported by the likes of Lauren Hemp in all of her movements. So she just felt that she could, I think, express herself maybe a little bit more than before. Favourite goal, it has to be Lauren James' volley at the far post, I think. It would have gone to her second goal had it not been disallowed. But I think that volley at the far post post it just showed everything that Lauren James is about just the way that she took it and the confidence and just the joy with which she plays it was just delightful. Yeah it was and

actually so was the pass from Jess Carter as well which I was really pleased I think there were about eight players involved in the six goals which is really exciting uh going forward and as Sophie just mentioned Susie we were denied an amazing Lauren James goal for offside you described the decision as a steaming pile of shite I mean I don't even know how you begin to elaborate on that but I'm gonna ask you to anyway I was very pleased with myself when I tweeted that as well I was really chuckling to myself sat at my desk. Yeah, I mean, just like she's not interfering with play. She comes back on side.

It comes off the back of the defender. I think the argument was that the defender, because she didn't head it or something, wasn't active or something like that there was something weird in the decision making that seems to be what was doing the rounds online as the answer as to why it happened uh or being ruled out but um lucy bronze was saying afterwards like you know if a player is jumping for a ball regardless of where it hits them they are they are active regardless of whether they hit it with intent they are active

so yeah and she was saying that you know if it had been Lauren Hemp scoring the cross that had come in it wouldn't have been disallowed because she wouldn't have been involved so like if that's the first phase of play she's in the second phase of play and yeah I yeah I just thought it was mad I thought it was absolutely wild it was ruled ruled out. Perfect goal. Wonderful goal. Lauren James denied a hat-trick. And yeah, we were raging. And Lucy was very much raging in the mixed zone afterwards as well. Let's just, in our little England world, let it stand, shall we?

Anybody listening to this podcast not in England land is shouting at us and saying you can't have it. Tough luck. Had it been allowed though I mean it would have been one of the all-time great World Cup hat tricks wouldn't it and uh Twitter came a lot I mean I don't know why you're going to social media for answers first and foremost Susie that is dangerous uh but Twitter did come alive when England's 11 was announced nobody could work out what the formation was going to be. How did you view the way Serena lined them up? Could this potentially be the system going forwards, Anita?

Did it work for you? What did you like? I loved it personally. I played in a similar system myself when I was at Chelsea and we had a lot of success with it. And I really admire Serena Vigman for having the courage to change a system, you know, in a major tournament where sometimes it's easier to just go with what you know what you've done before as with the personnel but she showed she's showing that she trusts in this squad and she believes that they

can handle it but the great thing about the system itself is that you know you have three centre-backs playing in the in covering those spaces and playing to their strengths you've got the on the ball skill of Greenwood and you still get the balance with her being left-footed you had Jess Carter who's used to playing in a three-back system and which allowed you know Daly to be utilised much higher up the pitch allows Lucy Bronze to be utilised equally on the right-hand side and the team in general to be more attacking and front footed to stop transition moments. And I just think it suited the personnel. You could feel that they really bought into it and there was a freedom and a

kind of fluidity in the play that we all got to enjoy. So hopefully she moves forward with this system. Um, but it will also depend on opposition. You know, a lot of the review and analyzing comes down to that as well i loved it too and with pushing uh daily and bronze further forward you allowed zelem to sort of slot in almost alongside stanway in a bit of a double pivot and like obviously it wasn't that needed against china it will probably be more needed against um tougher opposition the further they go in the tournament.

But the idea that you're then putting two players in that role that Walsh plays so effectively is a really, really important move because you're not going to replace Walsh like for like. So why not have two players with different qualities that allow you to fill that void in a different way and with yeah with the with the wingbacks you know able to provide the width you've you've sort of got a different different way of playing and an unpredictability as well like I think part like one of you one of the things I think is real predictability about the way England was starting

to play and you know teams knew if they marked Walsh out of a game they were basically cutting off a lot of the threat and not you know switching things up not having Walsh and you know having it really unclear made it really really exciting and really really unpredictable and then also the the boldness of dropping Elaton who's not had the best tournament so far in order to bring Lauren James into the middle which is where she shines loved it loved it I would also just to set to your point Anita about the bravery of Serena Wiegman you know she's not traditionally a coach that changes things up during tournaments don't think she really did it with the Netherlands she definitely didn't didn't do it last summer know, we pretty much knew what her formula was last summer.

So the fact that she went, and yes, maybe her hand was forced a little bit, but, you know, she went and did it and was brave with it, I think speaks volumes to her and just shows her sort of tactical capabilities, I think, as a manager and probably demonstrates exactly why she's she is the best manager in the world at the moment and got those awards I think is incredibly brave to to at this stage of a tournament at the stage of a competition to decide to do that and and sort of change things up but it was also like it's a weird thing where obviously you never want that injury to Kira Walsh to happen ever. But actually it might be in a weird way now, in an odd twist, a bit of the making of England in terms of that they will be unpredictable.

Teams won't exactly know what they're coming up against necessarily. Whereas I think we did always know kind of what was going to happen in a game. And I was also, I was just going to say that I watched Ireland play Nigeria who are obviously England's next opponents. They play three at the back and Nigeria did struggle with those three at the back because Ireland always had an extra defender covering, you know, so they did break through but England are a technically better team than Ireland. So I think it could be quite a useful kind of practice today for that, maybe going forward into that game in the round of 16 next Monday.

Yeah, we'll have a look at that game shortly. And I 100% agree with you on all of that. You don't want to see a player go out or any of the players that we've lost in this tournament. But actually, it just shows what strength in depth England have, which they've spoken about before. And we haven't necessarily attributed them of being that successful because we haven't seen it. You know, you can't predict what you don't know. And I was really excited when I saw the lineup and I'm really excited about the team going forward as well. As an aside, by the way, I meant to mention this to you when we were talking about Lauren James, Belgian men's player Michy Batshuayi, who used to be Rhys James,

Lauren James's brother's teammate at Chelsea, tweeted, Damn, Lauren's got a better finish than me, bro. I think we can all probably agree with that, having seen him at Crystal Palace and Chelsea and various other places. That bar is low. Susie, I wasn't going to go there. I wasn't going to do it. But yeah, you're right. Millie Bright won the ball really well to start the attack for the opener. I felt as if she had a little bit more freedom because she was protected and didn't have to do everything across the back line.

And she's really key to England's success, Anita. Absolutely. I think she felt confident. She has a relationship already with Jess Carter. She's had obviously a number of games with Greenwood as well. But I think Millie is a front-footed type. She wants to get stuck in.

She wants to get close to players. She wants to be able to make interceptions and get the team from defensive actions to attack really quickly. And I think it really was an opportunity to see her thrive in that role in the centre of those two other centre-backs as well. And her range of passing, I think,

will be pivotal for England, being the centre-centre-back. She can carry the ball and step into midfield areas and create overloads. And again, that will ask more questions of the opposition as to how they will deal with all those players in those roles. Yeah, absolutely. England have scored in 16 consecutive World Cup matches now, by the way. Just call me Chris Slegg in disguise with my stats.

Sophie, disappointed by China's performance in this World Cup maybe? We perhaps should have expected a bit more of the Asian champions. They beat Japan in the semi-finals of that competition, albeit in 2022. But they're arguably team of the tournament of this World Cup so far, the Japanese. And China, I thought we were going to see more from them. I did too. I know they dropped, like, they've had a big history in women's football, right? But they did drop off, you know, for a while. But I did expect more from them.

I know they have big ambitions as a nation. I know they want a World Cup in a few years' time. That's their goal. They're doing a lot domestically as well. So I was expecting a bit more of a stern test from them. I think they were probably just a bit shocked as well by the way that England came out and played. I don't think they were prepared for the three at the back at all. And I was just watching them in that first half and they just got deeper and deeper.

Because as the goals went in, they just got, I deeper, you know, because as the goals went in, they just got, I think, a little bit more anxious or a little bit more scared. And the gap between the striker and the midfield was just growing. And it just allowed people like Millie Bright to just step in and utilise that space. And you kind of saw that for that second goal, right, where she came in and she nicked it. And she was, like, just stronger than the opposition and bolder in that thinking. So, yes, I was a bit disappointed in them. But as an England fan, I guess I'm not either. No, absolutely. I'll tell you what I loved. Serena Wiegmann just high-fiving her assistant, Ian Nguyen. You could tell they had worked this out and it was executed perfectly.

And she just had that kind of smug Serena Wiegmann. Yeah, OK. Yeah, I knew this would work. I think I said to Susie at halftime, I was like, this is absolutely wild because none of us predicted it, but it's so much fun. And I think that that is an example

of just the joy that the whole game brought all of us is kind of, you know, just the fun of the whole game brought all of us is kind of you know just the fun of it as well you had Lauren James doing it on the pitch all of the you know the goal scorers as well and then Serena Vigman herself who is normally quite reserved on the sideline high-fiving and looking really really happy with herself so yeah just a lot of fun all right round I think yeah it really was let's see how fun the next game is going to be though because England face Group B runners up Nigeria in the last 16 that's on Monday August

the 7th and 8.30am UK time kick off how do we see that one going Susie? I'm a little bit nervous about it perhaps more nervous than I don't know than I should be obviously there's a lot to like about this new look England

from the first two games. But it's obviously the first game that they played with this formation in a very long time. I think they've only played a back three once before under Serena, which was the 20-0 against Latvia, so it worked. But it was, yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the only other time that they've played it under her. So, like, it's a new thing.

And when they come up against tougher opposition, that's when I start to worry about it. And, you know, when you look at Oshuala and some of the other Nigerian players who just are really, really strong on the counter-attack, you worry about how solid that will be. That said, I think it's the best formation that england could play against nigeria because if you're now what it seems to be you know you're reliant on rachel daly back in either the left back or left wing back role both her and bronze on the pitch uh in those positions is like a really attacking option and leaves a centre-back pairing exposed if you're paying a back four so having the back three could really really help with that but

i do i do worry about them against uh the nigeria counter-attacks but if they come out the way they did against china with that energy and electricity to the the attack then it shouldn't be too much of a problem in theory. But I worry because I'm a warrior. In theory, because actually Nigeria haven't lost a game in this World Cup so far. They've been really impressive. And I think before a first ball was kicked, nobody expected them to get through in a group like that, Anita. No, you know, I've been impressed with Nigeria. I think they are a little bit of an up and down team in terms of like complete performances sometimes I thought

the first opening game they were really good really front-footed dynamic you could see in transition they were a threat and that was you know worrying like Susie saying but I think against Ireland it's it was a strange one because I thought they would come out guns blazing wanting to attack and utilize all those quick players they have but they kind of were more reserved they were more defensive in in the way they played and it seemed as though it didn't suit them it wasn't in their sort of identity their DNA of players they want to be front-footed they want to step to players so that is kind of the I guess the question mark for us against England because we saw them against Haiti struggle with quick dynamic

counter-attacking players and not dealing with counter-pressing very well. But the one plus, I think, is if they do utilise the 3-5-2 again, it allows us to get more numbers higher up the pitch and maybe execute an action, a higher press, you know, and really make, I think, probably the defence of Nigeria aren't the best. So those types of players force them into more errors where we can hurt them with our numbers. But I think it's an exciting match-up and obviously a lot of credit

has to go to a CAF nation in Nigeria as well to go in a group as tough as this one and go unbeaten. You know, that takes no mean feat. And I think England will know that, you know, going into their preparations for this game. Yeah, they won't underestimate them, that's for sure. Alongside England, Denmark booked their place in the last 16 with a 2-0 victory over Haiti.

Haiti conceding a penalty for the third game in a row, Pernilla Harder converting it. How key is she going to be in the next round, Sophie, for the Danes? Yeah, I still can't get over the fact that it's her first World Cup. It just seems utterly bonkers to me that, you know, at the age of 30, and it's just because of the way circumstances happened. But, you know, I think she is a player that has always belonged on this stage and to finally get to show what she can do. She is absolutely crucial.

A bit perplexed by the way that she is used for Denmark because I do think she is better in the 10 rather than as the number nine. I think she's better being able to utilise that space behind and link up with the attacker rather than being the direct one in front. And I think that was the problem in the game against China and and for a lot of the game against England um where she wasn't involved in the play because she was she was being used as that target player rather rather than the player that can affect play in

that number 10 role um so I do get a bit confused by the way that he uses her. But yeah, I think she can have a big influence on this tournament going forward. And you just want to see players of her calibre be in the latter stages of the tournament. Yeah, definitely. She has said herself that she prefers to play in that 10 role as well. So it doesn't make sense to me either. So many disallowed goals in this game, Anita. Lots of really long VAR checks in the England game as well it didn't feel like it was the best game necessarily for VAR

the best day not the best game the best day is what I mean not the best day or game for VAR no and much like a lot of the games in this competition, long decisions over, you know, goals that seem like they should be given or decisions that shouldn't be. And, you know, they would have felt hard done by, especially on that, was it the one with Pernilla? Was it handball? You know, she did really well to get on the end of that cross and the header for the second goal as well.

Denmark looked dangerous when they got into those positions, you know, in beyond in that space, in transition moments, obviously Sanne Trollsgaard getting the second goal as well. I've played with both players, you know, and against them a lot. And, you know, I agree.

I think Pernilla is best utilised in between the lines. That's where she likes to pick up the ball, carry and get her team forward into attacking areas. So it'll be interesting to see how they set up in the next game as well. But yeah, VAR, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

There was a couple of games that I've done where I'm like, it's definitely onside. No, it's offside. And I'm questioning my knowledge in football with VAR at the moment. I think we all are, Anita. And I mean, the law is an ass at times. I think we will all agree.

But sometimes the implementation of the law is also ridiculously ass-like. But anyway, that game that Denmark will play is against Australia, the co-hosts, also on Monday the 7th. It's going to be an 11am kickoff UK time Susie just a quick one how do you see that going? I think it's only going to go one way really isn't it I mean like for all Penelhada's brilliance against Australia likely with some kind of version of Sam Kerr and like a

bionic strapped up leg or something back is sort of inevitable. I think that Australia will get through that game. And I kind of almost think it's quite important for the tournament that they do to a certain extent, because the crowd's been really great. The country's really like so behind it that it would be a shame if they went out. But yeah, I think they're a much stronger team across the board compared to Denmark in terms of like individual quality across the board. Yeah, and they've proved that they can score goals without Sam Kerr as well.

Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we'll round up Group E and find out how the world champions almost faced an early exit. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

So in Group E, the USA scrape into the last 16 with a goalless draw against debutantes Portugal. Who saw that coming at the start of this tournament? I mean, it's not that often that goalless draws are this much fun, is it? Portugal's Ana Capeta hitting the post in the 92nd minute was just an incredible moment the USA inches away from going home Anita we were so so close to possibly what would have been the greatest ever upset at a World Cup yeah incredible to see you saw the Portuguese bench literally almost celebrating when that hit because they thought that was a sure goal. And it just would have turned everything on its head for the USA.

And, you know, I tip them as potential tournament winners, you know, and I'm eating my words because I've watched their games in this group and I've not been impressed at all. You know, they have not looked like a USA of old dominant you know in all areas um it looks like they're lacking leaders on the pitch as well uh that lack of identity you know so many things you could just say that just do not pertain to the USA and I'm kind of miffed as well at you know know, the depth they have in this squad, you know, why the manager, Vlatko Adonovski, is not utilising it better and making some changes to try and impact some of these, you know, way forward performances because really that's what it's been.

I actually said on Twitter, it looks like kick and run football. It looks like, you know, when they used to dominate all of us from a physical and mental perspective. And now that the gap is bridged, you can see that Portugal were technically efficient. They're really good on the ball. They're missing that kind of clinical finish, you know, in the box. But they couldn't get close to them when they were passing around in possession. Yeah, I thought England struggled against Portugal's solid defence.

And I knew that they could do something special in this tournament and they so nearly did as well. What a debut for them. But the whole game, as Anita said, Sophie, the USA struggled to put any kind of decent attack together. Their front three has been really disappointing all tournament. Have you ever seen them this nervous? No, I think none of us have seen them.

I mean, I think there has been of us have seen them I mean I think there's been sign there has been signs over the last year or so you know um I watched their games against Ireland in was it April and Ireland despite the USA winning Ireland put them under serious pressure and you know you know but for having a clinical goal scorer, probably could have put one or two past them. So the signs have been there, I think, in the build-up. I do think I struggle with Blackheart Andonofsky's too and his decision-making. I really don't know what the identity of this American team is. I think it was in the game against the Netherlands,

and I could not understand why he only brought Rose Lavelle on at halftime. And the big problem now for the US in this one is that Rose Lavelle is now out because she got booking. So she's going to miss the round of 16. She is probably one of their most creative players that they have going for them. Sophia Smith, I love her to bits, but it's just trying to link all those different players together.

And as Anita said, it's just not quite flowing for them. And I think the rest of the world will be looking on quite happily at what's happening with the USA right now. You never want a team to struggle, but at the same time, the fact that, you know, everything's becoming a little bit more competitive and closer gives you a lot of hope for the future of the women's game. I always thought their mentality would pull them through or their sort of mental side. I knew that on the pitch they were still working things out. I always thought that sort of mental side would pull them through, but it's not at the moment. I think the identity you know the difference I mean when you look at the England performance today

versus the US performance and how Serena Vigman has taken a team and has gone these are my players what is the best formation to suit these players and then got the best out of them and found a formation that fits that those players I i think i feel like the us isn't doing that i feel like that you know there's a lot of very very talented individuals but they haven't found the right way of finding the right combination of players that work best together like they're not willing to sacrifice some of the names for the sake of the system, the system that is going to work best from that group. So I feel like that is the biggest problem, that they've not got a clear vision of which players work best with each other

in a starting XI and what that looks like in terms of the individuals that enter the pitch to make it happen. I think that they're maybe not brave enough to get rid of some players that need getting rid of. Well, I think that's part of the problem, Anita, isn't it? Is that they are in transition. You've got this highly successful group of experienced world beaters and then this new generation coming through. It's almost as if you wanted those players to have retired before this tournament for them to actually, you know, start this new era properly. Yeah, I would agree with you, Faye.

But I also think that it's a team that almost is looking for individuals to just work magic and make something happen because they have so many good individually talented players so many athletic players that can literally you know sprint beyond people and they're just expecting someone to turn it on as opposed to it doesn't look like there's a structured way for them to play and that's why I'm critical of the manager because you know you are missing leaders you haven't got your captain Becky Sauerbraun you know your usual one you don't have Sam Mewis you don't have Kristen Press you don't have Tobin Heath they've all been

used to playing together for such a long time and understanding how to feed for example Alex Morgan so I'm interested to know you know why he doesn't say opt for Sophie Smith in the centre in the nine which she does for Portland very effectively with Lynn and Trinity Rodman. That might be more effective with this new generation. Yeah. Because they already have success in that way. Yeah, absolutely. USA's probable route, you know, in inverted commas to the semifinals, we definitely know they'll face Sweden in the last 16.

Then Japan or Norway in the quarterfinals I mean tough games Sophie what do they need to do differently in the knockouts can they do something differently they need to do it pretty fast if they are going to they need to figure it out pretty quickly because Sweden is going to be no easy task I mean I'm still of the belief that Sweden are probably not of the team of old that maybe we probably saw. I still think they should have won the Olympics in 2020. I thought that team was at its peak then and maybe not quite at its peak now, even despite that heavy victory over Italy. But Sweden-USA is going to be a really tasty, historic encounter. Two very old rivals going head-to-head.

But yeah, the USA will not have an easy task of it against them either. They're going to have to figure something out pretty quick. Yeah, quick word on Portugal, Anita. This was submitted by Sergio to the Guardian live blog of the game. Whenever I see this team play, I remember a few things. There are only 10,000 registered players in Portugal in all age groups. No more than four fully pro teams in the league. Not a single player plays for a top club in the big five leagues.

Our manager is the same one from 10 years ago, when 99.9% of Portuguese people weren't aware the team even existed. I mean, I absolutely love that. They've acquitted themselves so well at this tournament, haven't they? Yeah, that's mind blowing. I think to hear, you know, when you look at this Portuguese side and what they've been able to produce this tournament, that's credit and testament to them, you know, the belief they have as a side in terms of the kind of joy we've had watching them play as well. I've been really impressed with them in possession in particular, but also they've been tough to beat.

They haven't been easy. They've been tight games and they've put some of their top players in the shop window, most importantly. So there'll be a lot of managers, I know, including myself, who will be ringing me up going, what do you think about this player and that player? Because I thought, you know, Nkanesal, the Silva, brilliant players, Capita, all of them, you know, Andrea Norton, I thought was a really good holding midfield role. So Portugal have a lot to be proud about, but I think it goes to show that, you know, it's a country that's doing something right, despite, you know, the limitations. Yeah, it's been such a good World Cup debut.

And you feel as if they'd have been in almost any other group that they could potentially have gone through to the knockout stage. Worth noting, by the way, that the one millionth fan at this World Cup was counted at this game as well. Love a good stat like that. Now, I said at the top, didn't I, the Flying Dutch women. And, you know, I would apologize for that, but I'm just going to place all the blame on producer Joel because he wrote it and I laughed

when he wrote it. So I read it out as I do in my anchorman way. Vietnam nil, Netherlands seven. That USA result meant that any victory for the Netherlands would see them go top of the group and they did it in style. The biggest margin so far at the tournament. They were strictly business in this game as well, barely celebrating their goals. There were loads of them to celebrate as well. 5-0 at halftime. And Netherlands knew that goal difference could be essential

for winning this group. They'll face the runners-up of Group G, which will probably be Italy. But South Africa and Argentina are still in with a shout. Netherlands would be clear favourites for that game though, Susie, wouldn't they? Oh yeah, 100%. I mean, it was a stunning game. I've only been able to catch the highlights because of travelling and running around and getting to the England game on time in traffic and things like that.

But yeah, I mean, they were like so so clinical and efficient you know you obviously lot made of Viviana Mida in this absence ahead of the tournament seeing so many different goal scorers and Esme Brutz what a what a like talent I mean if you're talking about Lauren James um like setting her stall out on the world stage. I mean, there's another player, slightly younger even, setting her stall out as well for the Netherlands, like two sort of mirror image goals and just like stunning strikes. And yeah, I mean, it was always going to be a likely comprehensive performance. Obviously, Vietnam, not the strongest of sides, but in the same way that China aren not the strongest of sides but in the

same way that china aren't the strongest of sides either like their real statement performances to round off the groups um and yeah i like i think it's um a real confidence boosting before i think for me both are never like i keep referencing england in relation to other teams, but for me, in terms of the Netherlands and England, who are missing so many key players from their squads, to then see them run up these big scorelines in a real, real statement way at the end of the group stage is a real huge confidence boost going into the last 16. You can't put a price on having that many different goal scorers um and them feeling the the confidence of that um as a result so yeah like really

I mean I think they're you know maybe new dark horses so to speak because I don't think many would have put them to get as far as they or or do as well as they have done necessarily, or get very far in this tournament. Certainly not on the Euros performance, but new management, obviously, and they look like the real deal. That's what Rachel Brown-Finnis said on the pre-match preview for the BBC as well. Sophie, do you agree? How far can this Netherlands side go? I would, I think Suze is right in that scoring goals builds confidence and wins like that build confidence.

They've got some really, really good players. I do still... I just look at that performance against Portugal to open the World Cup and their World Cup. And I know it was their opener and you grow into tournaments, but it still was just a bit dull, I think. And sometimes I think they had that problem of being just a little bit... They have some really, really good players, like Susie said.

They have Esme Brutus, I absolutely love watching her play. But I do think they might have some issues down the line, especially against stronger opposition, and maybe get to the quarterfinals. But I don't really see them getting much further. I don't know. Wow. Okay.

Let's just take a quick look as Ireland fly home after being knocked out of the tournament on Monday. But a drama in the Ireland camp with Katie McCabe versus Vera Pau. After their game against Nigeria, the manager revealed that her captain Katie McCabe had requested fresh legs from her long before she actually made her first substitution in the 84th minute. Pau said, a player can say anything to the coach, at least to me.

McCabe's response on Twitter, just a zipped face emoji. I mean, it's probably safe to assume that Powell's contract isn't going to be renewed. It expires at the end of this tournament. There's been a lot of question marks over it. But what's going on, Anita? Yeah, I mean, a lot of controversy in that camp prior to this tournament, even with Vera Powell and different articles coming out about the culture and the environment within that national team.

So this could be a continuation of an ongoing problem. Like you said, she's probably unlikely to continue. From a player's perspective, you take a player like Katie McCabe, who is all in, passionate, wants to win, wants to do everything it possibly can take. You can understand the emotion of her being like, get someone on the pitch, in her help me out you know but ultimately it's the coach's decision and it's not perhaps the most professional or the best way to go about it um but you know I was disappointed actually because Vera Powell named the so-called player that maybe Katie was

referencing in the press conference and I don't think that's helpful I don't think that's helpful to the group um to herself um you know or to that dynamic so yeah there's a lot to it sounds quite fractious shall we say a very very odd press conference as was the pre-match press conference and you definitely get the feeling that she's not going to be there beyond the end of her contract. I think in the pre-match press conference, she insisted on thanking FIFA and the Federation about 10 times, which was really weird, and that they were going to play for FIFA. It was just a really weird dynamic to the whole proceedings and and yeah in in the post-match as you say to come out and and name the name the player um I don't think actually Katie's ask was about Sinead Farrelly all that much it was just the fact that she wanted to win the game

and she thought they needed more impetus going forward. I would, knowing Katie as a player that I do, I would go against the fact that she would single out a particular player. She just wanted some support because they were so desperate to win that game. And you could see on the pitch at the end that they were, you know, while they were happy with the historic point that they got, they were desperate and they had the chances. And they they knew if they could just push that extra bit they could have made it count and go home with that that really valuable three points and really make history in terms of Irish the journey of this Irish women's team so I think it just sparked out of that disappointment and and the fact that they felt they went toe-to-toe with the best in the world and really showed that they can compete and just fell short.

And it just came out of that. And that's the experience of Katie. I think she's a winner. She's been on winning teams in a big stage. She knows what it takes. So that's her, you know, you would hope that the manager would trust her instinct as well. Well, maybe we'll see Katie McCabe in charge of the Republic of Ireland ahead of their European qualifiers

in September. Right, anyway, it's been an absolute pleasure. Sophie, get some sleep, please. I'll try, eventually. And we'll see you soon. Susie Rack, I want all that lino. I want the full collage of Lauren James

being Lauren James within the lino one of those kind of bits with a koala in the middle i've got to get back to sydney first i couldn't get my um my lino cutting tools through airport security with just hand luggage i don't know how you're going to get them home um for a start you're going to be way over way over guardian finance team, beware. Anita, always a pleasure. So nice to see you. Thanks for having me on.

Always a joy. Catch up soon. Fun. That was the word, wasn't it? Fun and joy is how we sum up this pod. Right, we'll be back on Thursday for a bumper show wrapping up groups F, G and H. Women's Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Music composition was by Laura Iredale.

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