The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - England’s Le Tissier dilemma and Fishlock signs off: Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Júlia Belas Trindade and special guest Mary Phillip to discuss England’s defeat to Brazil. Plus, Beth Fisher joins to reflect on Jess Fishlock’s emotional farewell

This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faker-Rothers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Defeat for the lionesses is not something we're used to saying, is it? But the Homecoming series didn't quite kick off as planned. We'll analyse the loss to Brazil as the Laticee's centre-back question rumbles on ahead of the revenge game against Australia. The Nations League is back and the Republic of Ireland are on the brink of promotion to League A after beating Belgium.

Northern Ireland lost to Iceland in the playoffs and Spain have one foot in yet another final. We'll also see how Brazil's preparations are going to host the World Cup and discuss Jess Fishlock's final farewell. All that plus we'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. What a panel we have today and I feel like. I'm topped up with Susie Hugs because I saw Susie Rack last week. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. That was a good day. It was. It was a very good day. We spoke to the University of Derby students, didn't we? We had a little guardian panel and then Susie raced off to St George's Park.

And some of the students beat me there and I don't know how. Really? Yeah. I left Ernie and they were like sat in the room when I got there. It was very odd. I felt like I was in a time machine. Listen, it's not going to be the first thing they're going to be ahead of us in. You know, the way students are going at the minute. They are some smart cookies out there coming into the industry, which is very exciting. And what a treat we have today as well.

Former England captain, Barclays WSL Hall of Famer, UEFA Women's Cup winner, now head coach of Peckham Town Men. Mary, Philip, it's lovely to have you on the pod. All right, good morning. Thank you for inviting me on. Proper debut, looking forward to it. And somebody we haven't seen for quite a long, While, Julia Bellas Trindade, how are you?

Happy to be here, as always. Hi, everyone. I can't wait to chat to you about Brazil. I bet you're very delighted about that, in fact. We're not usually the lucky charms, are we? But we are today, because the lioness has returned to the pitch for the first time since lifting the European Championship trophy back in July, but kicked off their homecoming series with a 2-1 defeat to Brazil at the Etiad.

On Saturday, Arthur Elias' side stormed into a 2-0 lead. goals from Bia Zanarato and Doudinia, but then they were reduced to 10 with Captain Angelina seeing red for denying Ella Toon a clear goal-scoring opportunity. Georgia Stanway pulled a goal back from the spot early in the second half, but they parled on the pressure England

but just couldn't break down a resilient Brazilian backline in the end. Look, Susie, it was only a friendly, but it felt like a really good test to see where both England and Brazil are after successful summers. What did you make of England's performance? Yeah, I'm really relaxed. I actually thought this match was going to be really difficult. I thought a loss was highly likely, given the personnel available, the amount of players out injured, it being kind of quite early in the season as well.

So I was kind of expecting it not to go amazingly well. And I actually thought performance-wise, particularly in the second half, they did better than I thought they would maybe look. Obviously, there's issues there and there's long-standing issues. like the fact that they've conceded first in the last four games, albeit those three games prior led them to the Euro's trophy. So, you know, like how much do you dig into that? And this sort of kind of like slow start, they're having to games is clearly an issue. Defensively, there are problems.

Up front, like they're not being clinical enough. So, like, there's issues obviously. And, you know, you should do better against 10 players, particularly in the second half. But Brazil are a really good team and they're a physical team. And, you know, when they've got a two-goal lead, they can sit back and soak up the pressure a little bit. So I thought Brazil were brilliant and handled it really well. But I'm not like concerned. I was asking Serena about this in the pre-match presser.

Do fans and the media and stuff give enough leeway to the team for this kind of period of friendlies where, you know, nothing really matters ultimately? Like I think they should just really experiment and be more experimental, if anything, could not be worried to fail. because it's the only chance we've got really to kind of really, really test people out and mix things up and none of it really matters, you know, if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter. She didn't understand leeway, and I could not think of a way to describe leeway in another way. Wiggle room. But would she understand that?

I don't know. That was the only alternative. Like, we could come up within a group brainstorm afterwards. And we're thinking she's not going to get wiggle room. She's going to go, we go, what do you mean? And there's no, like, Dutch translation either. So I spent most of the rest of the press conference trying to figure that out. But, yeah, like, it was a nice answer.

And she said, you just want to learn in these games and figure stuff out. And, I mean, like, the entire backline and the goalkeeper were not probably first choice if everyone's fit for this fixture. So, like, yeah, I'm relaxed, which is what I told Serena as well. The biggest problem with this, with this kind of year of experimentation, is apathy setting in, I feel, like from the outside, I mean, and perhaps a little bit of complacency on the inside. But Susie mentioned it, Mary, that the defensive frailties, again, coming to light.

It's happened over the last couple of years, really, and they seem to struggle mostly with direct transitional teams. Why do you think that is? England, they slowly got it to get through the game. But like Susie said, the beginning of the game, they always slow to that, gel in. Like, it's great that they want to push up and get in the attack, but you've got to read the game to start.

Like, the fallback push up high really quick, which is great when you've got that track and you're on that transition. But when you're just getting the feel of the game, I think you need to read it and just be a bit slower. I mean, they got into that. I mean, in the Euros we saw it, they started to slow down their attack going forward, and then once they got into it, they just went all out,

which is hence why they end up in the whole tournament. And when, obviously, saw Brazil come out, and they'd actually gone, like, man for man. you know as they're pushing the whole back line deemed to have a player so you should be a bit more wary of that because the fallbacks are pushing on and your two centrebacks the most crucial two parts because of the nearest to your goal

they're left one for one on there and they just don't seem to be if anything breaks down which it did they get caught short because there's no cover coming in from your left or you're right and then both goals kind of come through the middle Zeneretta dynamic in there now she managed to get through Danway and Welsh for the first goal

drove forward and you saw Carl was just slightly undercovering so she was too far on your left side and Leticia had bushed too far up so she was unable to make an in effect on that right side and it was a straight dynamic route to your goal you know and they punished England on that and on the second goal you saw it as well you know there wasn't enough cover in there for the midfield and again they come through that middle tuna paid the ball into Walsh and she had players around her so the only place she needed to go was to come back and you saw I mean she played into Stanway, and Walsh had just gone too far out to the left-hand side, so there was no back pass for her to be able to lay into.

And when Zanaretta again got on that ball, it was a direct drive forward, and, you know, the goal is fully open to them, and then it's a knife shot from the outside to the fort, and just sunk the ball into the keepers, bottom right, and, you know, they were again on the back fort, but they overcome that England did after that period where they put itself at the back fort. They did go forward, they did create chances, even before the penalty, and they had opportunities to cry and get a goal back

and it just weren't dropping for them that little bit of luck that you need just didn't happen I mean when Tune had gone through and got pulled down just on the sending off that free kick from Greenwood great free kick obviously denied by the cross bar and just

the ricochet back straight into car I was too quick too fast and just hit her any other part of the body would have gone in but it just smacked straight out of her head and just little things like that and he just want a little bit of luck. And it just went on their side. And we saw that throughout the game. Little things happening that, oh, almost little things like I just weren't coming off for them. But like Sue said, there's not a worry there because they're still playing. They're still finding that

drive forward. And yes, there was a lot of changes in the team. But you can see the players coming through. Once they get a bit more experience playing out and playing within that pack and getting more solidated together, they will be that threat that we saw coming through. And maybe a little bit of consistency as well. And we've got a lot of a year for Serena to decide whether or not Mayor Letitia is a right back or a centreback. She played both in this game. And of course, the conversation leading into the game and then after the game was exactly about that. This is what Mayer had to say. I play week in week out at centre half, so I feel much more comfortable at centre half. I have to think

a bit more at right back. But to be honest, I'm just happy to play and get on the pitch. It's been frustrating for me. I mean, the line of I'm just happy to play and get on the pitch, we, we hear that all the time. And Mary, you know, you said she'd bombed too far up the pitch early on in the game as well. But Susie, what did you make of Mayor Lettissier's comments and the dilemma, if she sees it as a dilemma that Serena Vigman has? I think that was deliberate the bombing up the pitch because Serena said in the postmatch afterwards that they wanted her to get forward. They were really encouraging her to do that. So it obviously left gaps, but she played the role. They wanted her to play, which I guess is like exploratory.

right. It's a dilemma but I also don't think it's a dilemma in that like we've not got enough right backs. So she is the best available player that can play as a right back behind Lucy bronze at the moment. It's only a dilemma if Serena has like a fully fit cohort across a back line and then you play her as a as a centreback because that's her best position. But if there's not like an Ella Morris or anyone else coming through that can like substitute, it's not substitute, deputise for Lucy bronze as a right back, then Leticia is the option. And that's just the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation, though, Mary, was that that's fine defensively. And I understand that. They conceded two goals. But we're used to the lionesses

scoring goals as well. And on 21 minutes, Angelina is sent off, which you automatically think is going to change the course of the match, which it did in terms of England's domination, but they actually then couldn't break Brazil down and do anything with that. Is there a reason you think that they struggled? And I know we're not worried about it, a year out from the 18 months out from the World Cup, should I say, longer than that. Oh my God, it's almost two years, for goodness sake. But why was it a problem? There'd be a problem there for me if England wasn't creating chances and they did create all the chances.

They just didn't get that luck of the green to get that ball in the back of the net. It opened up and they were able to drive forward. you saw the backline Morgan driving forward which was opening up the space and they were pulling the players and they were playing the ball nicely through the lines and actually getting onto the end of the ball there would have been a problem if they wasn't

and that would be thinking oh my days what's happening here but they were still opening up Brazil at that point and they were still getting their chances off and getting their shots away it just didn't go between the goal for them and didn't hit the back of the net which would have been a serious issue

so I don't see a worry in there and obviously like Susan was saying with Letitche going up she's an ideal replacement for bronze when bronze ain't available because England wanting their fallbacks attacking they want to do that overload on the outside and when you've got a player that can work

up and down that line it is a big threat and you saw England had a lot of joy especially when it went out to Mead and she was just putting the ball in early for the Tune and Mead running through the middle they were getting them shots off on goal it's just being a bit more proactive and they may get that little drop

and I think they fell a little bit short on being proactive in that final third but for me there wasn't a big worry in there and there's a lot to build from. And like you said, there's a year before the World Cup rolls in and plenty of time to build a team, a solid squad, I should say, not just a team, you want a solid squad. So when players come out, you can put them in,

you know the same job's going to be getting done. Yeah, let's focus on something positive as well because it was a special day for Manchester City's Kiara Keating, making her senior debut for England at the Etiad, which, of course, is the home of the club that she's been at since she was 11 years old, and in doing so, becoming the first black goalkeeper to represent the lionesses, Susie. It's been a long time coming.

How do you think she got on? I think she did really well considering we conceded two goals. I don't think she was at fault for either of those. And I don't think much more could have been asked for her in those two scenarios. Her distribution is great. We've always known that that is really strong. She's still only 21, right? And she was called up into the sea side.

I think it was in October 2023, and it's taken this long for her to pick up a single cap. so she's being patient and I'm just like excited now to see her step up a gear because I think she's one of the best options England have at the moment like obviously Hannah Hampton

has made the job her own but Kiara's a little bit younger than her and has really got something to her and I think it should be really close on her heels and really putting the pressure on Hampton for that starting spot it's only going to make the both of them better but I was really delighted

that her senior debut came at the Etiads with her family and stuff able to be there she grew up in Manchester She started in Man United's Academy, went to a city, I think, around like 10 or 11 or something, and it's a big city fan. So, like, it's a great way to make your senior debut, the result less so. But like I say, she's got a completely, like, untested back four in front of her. I mean, I say untested. They've not played together with any, like, level of consistency.

They're obviously tested or even played together as her back four in that formation and positions before. So it was new and different and, you know, there was a lack of quality in front of her that left to the goals, so not her fault. No, I thought she had a very solid performance in there, you know, very stern on there. Like the opening, like 15 minutes of the game in the past four England games, the goalkeeper's always been put under that kind of pressure. And it's nice to know that she's not being left out of that ring, you know, the same happened for her. And, you know, she can't be pulled on the goals. They come direct that, with that protection that she actually needed. But once she had insulted into the game, you know, she did have that presence there.

You know, she did have that protection in there because they kind of gel together a bit better. And it'll go forward. So, you know, it's a great debut for her. And, you know, and she's definitely one to be looking forward to. Yeah, without a doubt. Quick turnaround now to Australia on Tuesday. We are recording this on Tuesday morning. So not much point in doing too much of a preview.

But you'll all remember the last time that these two sides met, it was the World Cup semi-final, a home semi-final for Australia. An England midfielder, Ella Toon, says it's going to feel like a revenge game for the Matildas. What challenges do you think this game's going to pose for the lionesses, Mary? Are you expecting many changes? There will be a few changes because obviously it's going to be trial and error. They're obviously trying to new players in there to see how players are going to fit in and what they need to do to be working them to push them up to the levels they want them for.

that World Cup. But it's going to be a good game. Obviously, Sam Kerr's come back into the squad. You've got the two Arsenal players. Is it Caitlin? Caitlin Ford and now I've forgotten the other one as well. And Steph Catley. There you go.

So we're passing it on here. But yeah, it's going to be exciting to share it roles. But I do think it's going to be a good challenge. And obviously, England will want to go and prove a point and correct mistakes, which they started off with the Brazil game. So it'll be different. I'm hoping it's going to be a different opener. But they'll open up again.

and then you'll see that same attack and form. And I do think there will be a little bit of changes. They will definitely be hitting the back of that net, I think a bit more in this game coming forward. Poor old Julia has had to listen to us, drone on about England, the losing team. She's sitting there going, when's my turn? How impressed were you with Brazil, Julia?

They certainly seemed up for it. It was really interesting to watch Brazil, especially against England, because it was a completely different team than the one we saw. saw at the finalissimo a couple of years ago. Of course, Brazil and England are in the same position. So they had really successful summers.

And then now they are just trying to get the squad right for, you know, for the next cycle. And for the Brazilians, it was about testing. Artu had called up three players that had never played for the senior team before. And they went into the game and played really well. We had, of course, 20-year-old Dojina getting an assist and a goal. which was brilliant to see. She's one of this younger generation that's probably going to be leading Brazil in 2027.

And of course, for the Brazilians, our minds are already in 2027. We don't have to play qualifiers. We don't have any more tournaments until the World Cup. So right now it's all about testing. And it was a great test. And I spoke to R2 after the game about it. It was a great way to understand how Brazil

can play against the team that, you know, on paper, it's better than them, is higher on the rankings, has beat them a few times already and prepared to, you know, play under pressure while at the same time dealing with adversities early on in the game with Angelina's red card. So it was a great test for the Brazilians and they passed like with flying colors because the defense held up quite nicely. Tarciani was huge. Some of the Brazilian friends call her Wendy and our's daughter. just because they're playing in Leon right now and we've struggled

playing against Renard quite a lot in the past so having her playing really well and just holding up the back line was amazing to see and yeah it's a really different Brazil I feel and from the conversations that I've had with the players after the game as well they feel more confident

I think that in the finalist might mean the 2023 World Cup the whole conversation was about, okay, we are worse than them, we have to hold back, we have to, like, keep our, you know, as many defensive players as possible. We have to react to them, which, of course, led us to have a better defense than we've had over the past years and decades. Brazil was always an attacking team, never a defending team. But then at the same time, after you build that solid foundation, then it's about, okay, now we can play against anyone. And that's basically the conversation they've been having in the dressing rooms.

They've been saying, we can face anyone, we can play against anyone. We won't like, I don't know any expressions in English that can, we'll go to their tolls and just like attack and try to do our best. That's how they were able to score twice so quickly in the beginning of the game. And, you know, that was what held them up because, of course, when you lose a player so early on, you still have to fight a lot. And of course, England have amazing players, an amazing attacking system as well. And for the Brazilians, it was a great test on their defense and on their resilience on the pitch. You mentioned DeGenia there. Bea Zanoretto at the other end of her

career, but they linked up really nicely together. And there is a player that everybody wants to know more about who, I swear she must have retired a zillion times over, but It's like semi-retirement, isn't it, for Marta? And with the World Cup on the horizon, are we expecting to see her at all? Is she going to play a different role? What's she going to be doing in this next year? It's funny because I feel like we've been having this conversation since 2019. It's all about Martha's new role and she's almost retiring.

She keeps on going. She was going to retire after 2023. I think that was the plan. And I think if she didn't have the ACL injury, she was planning on retiring before the Olympics. And then she had to stick around a little while longer because, of course, in the World Cup, she wasn't 100%. And she did amazing in the Olympics. And then I think she got bit by the football bug again and just had an amazing season with pride, had an amazing season with Brazil. She was like, yeah, I think I can play for another three years and just try to go to the World Cup.

when she wasn't called up, obviously Ertu was asked about it. And he just said, look, we have to test new players and we have to think about the new generations. So for this call-up, for these two friendlies against England and Italy, we had, the average age was about 24 years old, March 138. So she's way on the other end of the career. But at the same time, if you follow the NWSL, if you follow how she's been playing at Orlando Pride. She's been playing, you know, she's been in a great moment since the last

season. So I really think we cannot count her out of the race for a place in this team. And I think if you have Marta on your side, it doesn't matter. Even if she's injured, she has a different role. She inspires the players of the pitch. You can see her. She cries a lot. She celebrates her birthday, every year in February, her birthday falls into a FIFA date so people celebrate her birthday. And she always cries when she gives a speech. She's really passionate about the national team. So I think as long as she can play, she will play and she will try hard to go to the World Cup. Well, I really hope we get to see her 40th birthday celebrations in the February before the World Cup in 2027, because that would be pretty special, I reckon. In terms of the

actual World Cup. How are preparations kind of ramping up at the moment? You must be very excited. Is everything going smoothly so far? It's insane because when you think about the World Cup, of course, the Women's World Cup, when we have put on the beat to host the World Cup, the main idea is Brazil is already like 80% ready. It's all about, you know, painting the stadiums again a little bit, but we are using the same stadiums that were used for the men's World Cup in 2014. So it's slow, but at least it doesn't need a lot of work. Like, we don't need new buildings, new training centers, anything like that. That was the main issue with 2014. They had to build a bunch of new structure around the cities and that slowed down a lot of the process. But at the same

time, my main issue is with how it's being promoted, because it's basically not. When you look at the Brazilian media, of course, we have more games being broadcast. We have, like, the National League having more games broadcasts, still not all of them. When you look at clubs like Flamengo, for example, recently a website called Gibraladores, the one that I write for in Brazil, they release some images of the training grounds for Flamengo, Christiane plays for Flamengo. And basically, like, tap water that's completely brown, no structure whatsoever, no gym for the players. And it's, you know, they train in a place that is basically just for, you know,

people to rent and celebrate parties and birthdays and that sort of stuff. And they put the women's senior professional team to play there. And a team that has Christiani, of course, all of the other players, you know, already need the respect and need structure as well. But when you think about Christiani and everything that she did for the national team, everything that did for women's football all over the world. That's just so disrespectful. And they've been declining to comment on that. So you still see a lot of structural difficulties on club level for the national teams. They are. Of course, we have the under 17s playing the World Cup right now doing really well. We have some really interesting young talent coming up from the under 17s

and the under 20s. But at the same time, it's about finding this balance. And I think one of the main challenges will be the fact that Brazil doesn't have any actual competition to play over the next few years. So everything, even if we play those tournaments, like she believes these are still friendly tournaments. So I think it will be good to test the players, but the actual challenge will be difficult to find over the next couple of years. Yeah, I think that's the problem all round it feels. And, you know, I mentioned the word at the beginning, apathy, the last thing on earth you want leading in. You want some momentum. You want some, you know, everybody to be getting on board and continuing with the support.

And that's very difficult to do for friendlies. Speaking, well, it is technically a friendly, isn't it, the finalissimo. That is going to take place in March 2026. But we don't actually know where it's going to take place. We have no idea. Might be in Brazil, possibly. Bearing in mind it was at Wembley last time. but we'll definitely have to reunite in six months' time

to talk about how both sides have progressed in that time and it will be a fascinating meetup wherever it is. Producer Sofa is desperate for it to be in Brazil so she can go out there for a few days. Right, that's it for part one in part two. We'll look at what's happened elsewhere so far in this international break. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So the 2025 Nations League also returned this week.

This competition always seems to go on forever, doesn't it? Slowly draws itself to its conclusion. First legs of the semi-finals took place on Friday night. Germany beat France by a goal to nil, Clara Bull on the score sheet. Spain, meanwhile, kicked off Sonia Bermudez's tenure in style, subjecting Sweden to a 4-0 defeat in Tony Gustavs. first game in charge. Look, they're pretty set to reach the final,

bar some kind of Swedish miracle, really, Susie. That performance was fantastic. I mean, can France, though, against Germany, turn it around in Cannes to make it a rerun of the 2024 final we saw? I mean, they can, whether they will, I don't know, because France can always France and Germany can always Germany. Yeah, no, Spain were hugely impressive.

You know, I'd say I'd argue they've got one hand on the trophy already, two Puteus goals, two Claudia Pina goals. They're like picking up where they left off pretty smoothly. And yeah, I mean the France-Germany one is going to be really interesting. You know, obviously France lost Lina Oberdorf to another ACL injury, which is a massive, massive blow, like devastating for her among a spate of ACL injuries that seem to have been announced in the last month or so. But I thought that France would beat Germany in the Euros and Germany came through that game.

and I don't really know how and in style despite the fact that they were massively depleted, players missing through suspension and injury and things like that. So Germany are always a tough team to play no matter how could you think France are. Yeah, always, always. The Republic of Ireland, what a fantastic night at the Aviva, Mary. 4-2 win over Belgium,

putting themselves in the driving seat for promotion to League A. They travel to Loewen today to try to. and replicate that and secure that League A spot. Does it feel like the best night of Carla Ward's tenure so far? Love to seeing the celebrations. I think it will all be, you know, I've been pushing to get up there for a little while now. And it's been so near, you know, it's so close.

It's just in their grass. I think it's just going to go out there. And they will definitely replicate what they've just done and they will do what they have to do to push themselves into this next level of the international game. You know, they deserve it. They've been driving and working really hard over the years. And it's definitely there to take.

And I'm sure everybody from the players on the pitch all way to the back from staff are going to be gearing everyone up for this end. They're going to be ready for it. Yeah, the playoffs are really important in terms of sorting out league status for the upcoming World Cup qualification. Northern Ireland, though, didn't go so well for them. A 2-0 first-leg defeat at home to Iceland for them. Now, we mentioned it last week, but it was an end of an era

in Cardiff on Saturday, as Wales said goodbye to Jess Fishlock, and we're delighted to once again be joined by journalist Beth Fisher, who is at the game this weekend, and is wearing her Jess Fishlock scarf. That is quite something, Beth. I love it. It is, right. And I have to frame it now, I think. When's it dries from all the tears, of course. Of course. What an emotional weekend. Oh, it's, do you know what? When she had announced it, and I kind of knew it was going to happen. I was really upset. I sat on my sofa about an hour looking through videos and photos from the Euros as if like it was some like, I don't know, like Diana Ross had died or something. You know, it was kind of that emotion which I didn't expect to have really. But yeah,

a sad but happy occasion, I think, for everyone. Yeah, I mean, she's gone out of on our own terms quite beautifully, hasn't she? Especially after Euros. And we tried last week from a Welsh perspective, is it possible to even sum up Jesse's impact on the game? Yeah, Rianne Wilkinson said something really interesting about, you know, will someone be the next Jess Fishlock? And I don't think there will be anyone in Wales. I think what Wales have to do now is trying to find bits of Jess Vichlock, a bit like Harry Potter in it, with the bits all coming together. And I think that's the biggest challenge. But ultimately, the thing that I think people must remember about Jess, not just on the pitch stuff, but it's off the pitch stuff as well, what she's done for Welsh football.

And I would say world football in that kind of going around the world, you know, getting a train. when it didn't exist. But not only that, but playing just unbelievable football up until now. You know, she could do another four-year cycle. But I think it's credit to her

that she's gone, right, I've kind of done it. It's time for someone else now. Yeah, that's someone else. I mean, it felt quite fitting, didn't it, that Mared Griffiths scored her first international goal

in that 2-1 defeat to Australia. It felt like the literal changing of the guard. Obviously, talent coming through for Rianne Wilkinson, but in the immediate future, how do they deal with losing Jess's presence, not just on the pitch, but off the pitch as well? Yeah, I think, you know, people will need to step up on and off the pitch. Laura McCallis and I had a good chat about that yesterday because, you know,

who will be that voice fighting for those rights for Welsh football? But you've got the likes of Haley Ladd and Harrod Griffiths and Harrah James, Sophie Ingle. And then you've got the younger ones coming up who, quite frankly, have never known anything but a good time in some respect. You know, they've had it kind of pot on a plate. I'm not saying they've had it easy, but no one will have it like Jess in terms of fighting for those rights or Sophie, you know, or Kaylee Green. I think that's where people and players have to understand, actually, the job's not finished and there's still loads of work to do both on and off the pitch for Wales.

And it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be right to say that, you know, just because we've gone to a euros, we're kind of finished. I think we're just at the beginning and there's a lot of hard work ahead. What do you think is next for Jess? what do you think is next on her itinerary? I want to see her dressed up as a dragon as the official Wales national team manager and then her presence has never gone.

But what do you think she's going to be up to? I don't know. You know, she went to Australia and I think managed and coached the team there about 10 years ago, whenever it was. I think Jess has got literally the wool at her feet in terms of what she wants to do next. As we know, and as I know from my wife, Anita,

like the coaching set up, the coaching life isn't, it's hard. You know, I think players think they have it hard. But I think you've got to be in that right frame of mind to kind of go to that next step of coaching. I, you know, this is just my personal opinion, no real insight, but I can't see her leave in America. I think I think it's a different lifestyle out there. And I think, you know, she's got a life out there with her wife as well, Z. And I can see her kind of sticking with Seattle in some role. And whether that's, you know, coaching.

And I hope, you know, she does have some kind of role within Welsh football. I think we have to keep people like Jess. within not just Wales, but actually the women's game because she has so much insight. And I think as well, she needs to remind the players currently that actually it's not good enough just to turn up and train and go home and, you know, drink some coffees and Instagram about it. You know, there's so much more to be in a footballer and that's why she's so special. And I don't think genuinely we will see the likes of her again. I think, and this is no discredit to the England team, you've got loads of superstars. But to have someone like Jess who's carried a team for 19 years.

years to score 48 goals, 166 caps is quite frankly unbelievable. And I think she goes down as one of the greatest to ever grace this game. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And on this pod, we've been talking about the World Cup 2027. Who knows she could be part of the coaching staff or even lead them. You never know if they make it. Or do a martyr and come back. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. I could totally see that. Beth, thank you so much. Lovely to speak to you as always. No, thank you guys. Great speaking. Right. Elsewhere, Scotland beat Morocco 2-1 in a friendly in Casablanca on Friday night. Elidina Katch cancelled out Erin Cuthbert's opener, but it was down to a 90th minute wonder strike from Caroline Weir to hand Melissa Andriata, her first win since taking charge in May. Scotland's first win, by the way, in under a year.

The USA also recovered from a disappointing 2-1 defeat to Portugal on Thursday to beat the same opponents 3-1 in Connecticut. Olivia Moultrie scored a brace as Emma Hayes' side returned to winning ways. Listen, I want to talk about the 26 players shortlist of the World 11 that Feefef Pro released yesterday. It was voted for, this is the caveat, voted for by 6,000 women's players. Of course, you would expect the likes of Itana Bon Mati, Alessia Rousseau, Alexia Puteas, perhaps slightly surprisingly Mary Ups. but, you know, I think what was more remarkable was some of the omissions that we saw. Certainly on this pod, our eyebrows were raised

because no room for Ballondor runner-up, Mariona Caldente, which has made Susie very angry. I'm sure she'll talk about that in a second. Liga F top scorer Eva Paior and no UEFA Women's Champions League top scorer, Claudia Pina. So, I mean, I don't know where they were picking from. This is really fascinating.

And listen, these kind of awards throw up controversies, we know that they do. I'm going to go to Susie first and then we will defect to a player who at one time has had these kind of choices to make in terms of Mary. But what did you make of the list, Susie? How can these problems be solved? I mean, it's just stupid, isn't it? I don't even think they should do this award because it's just so stupid. Like, if you're on that list, one of the midfielder's on that list and Caldente isn't on there, Kim Little's not on there, or you're one of those forwards, a newer pyore isn't on there or Claudia Peanut. Like, I mean, it waters down the award, right? Like, if you're on there with them, that's great. You know, you're part of that cohort.

But if they're not on there, I just think it waters it down. And it becomes a bit of a joke. And it's just really disappointing. And I get it, it's the players that vote for it and then the collective votes come together and stuff and people vote for their friends and all that kind of thing. But come on, like, if it's not going to put out a list that makes sense to anyone looking at it, then don't do it, right? Like, I just think, like, players are never going to vote honestly about who they think has actually been the best players.

Like, they're going to vote for their mates and their teammates. And so it's kind of like a little bit of a stupid. award. But yeah, hey-ho. Mary, is it a stupid award? It's important to those who are getting the award. It's a great award. But like Caesar saying, you do tend to pick your friends and those, you know, because how many of them women are actually seeing all them players on that list to play week and week out? They don't get to see them. So how's it a fair shelter who's been selected?

You know, so on that front, it's hard. If you're going to do it like that, it's got to be a small pool. But if you want it to be worldwide and for the best selected players to be there, you've got to have someone who is seeing these players week in, week out, to get a fair shout for them players that are on that list. I mean, it's not representing all the players out there who have been playing outstanding. By the way, a bit of good news for you.

The Deutsche Fusbal Bund, which is the German FA, has announced a landmark 100 million euro investment into women's football in Germany. The goal is to professionalise the women's Bundesliga, which will close the gap with Europe's top leagues. They want to build a more sustainable future for players and clubs. So the funding's going to go towards upgrading training facilities improving stadiums, investing in youth development and boosting marketing and visibility.

It's one of the biggest financial commitments ever made to women's football in Europe, by the way. Big step towards equality and growth across the game. So good news that that is coming and more leagues are getting investment. Yeah, I mean, it's brilliant news. The Bundesliga has been like slipping behind, I would say, well, obviously the WSL we know is getting huge investment. But then obviously, a League of F in Spain is, I mean, they're not investing well in that league, but you've got individual teams investing well. And obviously Barcelona have the players coming through in the style of football that enables them to be brilliant.

And France underinvest, too. But you've got sort of the Spanish and English teams really sort of starting to dominate in Champions League football. And Germany is starting to slip behind a little bit. So I think it's a really, really significant investment and it's like a real statement of authority that they want to stamp Germany back on the map when it comes to women's football because they've led the way for so long.

You know, they're the record euros holders, but they're not really kind of continuing their legacy in the way they would probably like to be. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see whether we see the fruits of that labour in 2027, which we talked about quite a lot, actually. We have had spectacular guests today. It has been a delight, Mary, to have you on.

Thank you so much. Hopefully we'll see you soon. Thank you very much for inviting me on. Yeah, I'd love to be back to see if you again. It'd be great. Who've Peckham got at the weekend? Who have you got? We've got Stamfield at the weekend.

Yeah, so looking forward to the game. Excellent. I look forward to it. Producer Silas is after a Peckham shirt as well. Yeah, he just needs to come down to the stadium and I'll get him sorted out. and obviously I'm going to be looking at the under 18th this weekend as well so I'll be having a look at he's relative in that team so yeah, who knows what the future is bringing for him.

Wonderful, wonderful. Julia, it's been a joy having you back on. We'll speak to you soon. See you soon, at least in the next six months for the finalisima. Oh, before then, please, before. Susie, a week where I won't see you unfortunately, but enjoy the game later and I'll see you soon. And then it's half, well, I mean it's already half term,

But then I'm off for half term. So I will be running around with 12-year-olds for the rest of the week and losing the world to live again. So, yeah. Oh, my God. That means that you get to go to, like, Laser Quest and do cool stuff, though. I wish we're doing stuff as cool as that. We are going pumpkin picking on Thursday night, late night.

That's cool. Like, darkness pumpkin picking. That'll be fun. Oh, yeah, it's Halloween. I'm so glad. It's a bit here, read it. Yeah, you know, you know that I'm not one of these, I'm not, doing any Halloween puns. I flat

refuse to do it. Anyway, keep having you say, send in your questions via X or email us at Women's Football Weekly at the Guardian dot com and as ever, a reminder to sign up for our biweekly women's football newsletter all you need to do is search moving the goalposts sign up. The Guardian

Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura Ayerdale. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. This is The Guardian.