The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - England’s wild week and their Euros squad assessed: Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Tom Garry, and Sophie Downey to unpack a turbulent week for the Lionesses

This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faker Others and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Whoa, what a week for the Lionesses, culminating in the Euro 2025 squad being announced. Before that, we had shock after shock, following a win, a loss, and three big players stepping back from international duty. But Switzerland is on the horizon, and a new dawn awaits,

with seven tournament debutants unveiled, and a place for the injured Lauren James. We'll discuss the departure of Earps, Kirby, and Bright, ask what's going on behind the scenes with England, run through the rest of the departure of Earps, Kirby and Bright, ask what's going on behind the scenes with England, run through the rest of the Nations League action, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Wow, if that famous beer brand did panels. Susie Rack, hello, how are you? I'm good, fine. Apart from the sun being sick, all good.

Oh, sun's not sick here in Barcelona. Sorry. Tom Gary, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Ready for the squad announcement day, like sort of transfer deadline day, but without all the 11pm drama. Like Christmas Day, almost. Except much busier and less slovenly later on in the evening probably. Less delicious food I think. Yes. Sophie Downey, how are you? I'm alright, thank you. I think my body has finally gone, it's the end of the season.

So I'm just recovering from that, it's finally given up on me, but I'm all good. Listen, you have to look after yourself as I say to you all the time. Do not underestimate the power of stopping. Talking about stopping, wow, what a week it has been. Turbulent for Serena Vigman and the Lionesses with the news that three of England's most senior players are no longer available for selection. So it started

with Mary Earps just after we recorded last week's pod. The Queen of Stops announced her retirement after being told she'd be number two to Hannahampton in the summer. Then the night after England's Nations League defeat to Spain, Frank Kirby put out a statement saying she was also hanging up her boots after 77 caps for the Lionesses and then on Wednesday we heard Millie Bright was not making herself available. She was saying she's not able to give 100% mentally and physically. We're going to take each player separately because I think they are you know individual cases although obviously three players withdrawing from a squad in a week sounds like a lot and we will look at, you know, what perhaps might be an additional factor behind it.

But each case individually, I think is most important because they're all separate humans. And we'll start with Millie, shall we? Because she posted about withdrawing from selection for Euro 2025. So important, she's not retiring, she's just not making herself available for the tournament in the summer, which we kind of had an inkling with because she wasn't part of this Nations League camp. But this is what she posted. This is one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make. But after careful thought and discussions with my team, I've decided to withdraw from selection for the England squad ahead of Euro 2025. Football's given me so much and representing my country has always been my greatest honour. My pride and ego tells me to go but I think the team and the fans deserve more and right now I'm not able

to give 100% mentally or physically. Actually, you know, she's been talking about her mental health in recent weeks on on her daily brightness podcast with her friend and former teammate Rachel Daly. And it is a really brave decision to make Suzy. She's played a lot of football over the last few years. And we need to remember that, that players have lives off the pitch too, with lots of different things going on for them. How important is it that they feel they can prioritise their mental health? Oh, incredibly important. You've got to feel good in yourself when you're playing the game

that you are playing and in the spotlight that you've got on you. And I think there's been signs that Millie's been quite introspective for some time in that we've noticed a changing her in interviews and press conferences and mixed zones and things where she's been really open and yeah, really honest about sort of the way she's feeling about the way the team is, about performances. You know, I had a great chat with her down in South London at Cobham FC about her becoming a sort of ambassador for the Football Foundation, where she talked about her nephew's autism and ADHD, like really emotively. And I think she's spending a lot of time thinking about sort of what she wants to do with her life and what she

wants from it at the moment. And, you know, who knows what's going on in someone's personal life and away from the pitch and things like that. But you have moments, don't you, of reflection and clearly she's been struggling a bit and, you know, I think everyone would be completely supportive of anyone prioritising their mental health and taking a decision like that when it's not a guaranteed medal, of course, but like the chance of a second European Championship medal is not implausible. Yeah, it's a really difficult one, Tom, isn't it? And in terms of how it affects the team, she's been a starter for England for the last few years. She was captain out of the World Cup in Australia and it leaves Serena Viggen with a hole to fill in central defence because she was always one of the first players on the team sheet. So who steps up into that role, not just in that position but also as a leader that we know Millie Bright is?

Yeah, it's a huge loss of experience. Somebody very, very reliable in major tournaments and played incredibly well in the last two, three, maybe even last four major tournaments. I think it's actually a position where England are very well stacked. Thankfully with the return from injury of Alex Greenwood, I would now expect that Greenwood, who was obviously captain of Man City, will now fill that position more than adequately. An extremely good central defender and I think the centre-back pairing we saw with Williamson and Greenwood was the one they'll go with. But you're still weaker in your squad for not having Millie Bright. Nonetheless, I completely agree with Susie and I think Millie's decision may well have an even bigger impact than the performances she's had on the pitch because the message she sent out to sort of empower other people who might not be feeling 100%, you know, to put their own health and wellbeing first. I think that's such a powerful message and I really respect her for doing it. I also think

it needs to be a massive wake-up call for football that somebody who's just won a domestic treble feels so physically and mentally drained after a long season that she doesn't want to be going to the major tournament. There are clearly lots of multifaceted reasons maybe why that might have happened, but I always look back at the calendar and I think England and Chelsea both maybe need to reflect on whether they've missed opportunities to rest Millibright and other players not just Millibright. Often with Vigman I think understandably she's always prioritised trying to win and wanting to win matches but I'm really struck by I remember a press conference in spring last year

when there was lots of debate around the unpopularity of the summer July 2024 window that had emerged when the players had no off season despite there being no major tournament. And I asked Serena Vigman a question at the press conference of whether she had considered giving some players that camp off so they had a break, you know, not picking everybody. And she's essentially, honestly said she hadn't thought about break, you know, not picking everybody and she's essentially, honestly said she hadn't thought about that, you know, and essentially she was just playing to win the qualifiers because they're important qualifiers but at some point I think England might need to reflect on the idea

that they might occasionally need to give people a camp rest to help them recover because people, as Millie Bright said, they're not robots who can play forever. Yeah and your article in The Guardian was fascinating actually. Give it a read. If you've not yet, the headline, Bright has made a brave decision, but are England doing enough to support their stars? And it's a really good point that Tom makes. Now, immediately after the game against Spain finished, which by the way, we are going to review the both the Nations League games, both very different. Frank Kirby then announced that she also was going to be retiring with immediate effect. This is what she had to say. It's something I've been thinking about

for over a year. I knew this was going to be my last major tournament. The plan was to retire after the Euros, but after speaking to Serena, I'm not going to make the squad. It was like a dagger to my heart, but also a weight off my shoulders all at the same time. It was emotional for both of us, but we both respected what each person was saying. So 77 caps, 19 goals, a European championship winner and a World Cup bronze medalist as well. She's had quite the career, Sophie, hasn't she?

Yeah, I mean, Fran, Fran Kirby is a special player. I always say I think she's one of the generational players that we've had within the England set up and I put her in line with you know the Kelly Smiths of the world. Kelly Smith is always regarded as the best player of her generation and also Lauren James. I think they're the three that I've been so lucky to see throughout my time. As a football fan she lit up a football pitch for England in an England shirt when she was fit, uh, the way that she saw the game is like no other player on that team still, I think, um, her vision, her touch, but also her character as well.

I think she's just a fundamentally good human and she's come through so much off the pitch. You know, her mom died when she was young. She quit football because of it and then came back and played for Reading and that's how it all kind of started, I think. And she got really oddly for England spotted while she was in at the time the WSL2 with Reading. That doesn't happen very often with England. They're normally all in the top tier. So she really shone. And I remember that tournament against, uh, in Canada, the 2015 world cup.

Um, she was given the nickname mini messy, which I know she doesn't like particularly much, but it kind of summed her up. She was this young player who just had all of the talent and the world at her feet. Um, and she's had injuries, she's had illness, she's come back every single time. And I think that just kind of shows, you know, the kind of person she is, the kind of player she is.

And you could tell in kind of social media posts and in Serena Wigman's statement afterwards, how much they think of her and how much she has given to the singling team. And it's just sad that I didn't quite realise that Wembley on Friday night was her last game because I would have treasured it maybe a bit more when she came on the pitch. She will be a player I'll be miss watching definitely in an English shirt. Yeah, and there is the argument that actually she still potentially had something to give in an England shirt, Suzie as well. You know, I know that she said she was always going to retire internationally after the Euros. What do you make of her decision and of Serena's

decision actually not to be taking her to Switzerland? I can completely understand Fran's decision. I think that, you know, obviously a very tough one to make, but we've seen a number of players in recent years sort of take a step back from international football, not necessarily for England and keep playing club football. I think of like, like Kim Little's done, right, like to extend their playing career, particularly for someone like Fran, who has had so many injuries, like niggly ones and, you know, long-term ones here and there and illnesses and things like that.

Like there's logic there, especially if you're, you know, you're not going to this major tournament, like aiming for the next major tournament the World Cup or the Olympics or whatever might feel overly ambitious Given her age and like all of those other issues. I am more surprised in Serena's position I think you know I sort of on the fence of whether she'd want to take Fran or not but just that midfield to me and you know with Lauren James a Sort of maybe for the tournament at the moment and probably not fully fit when she does get included, I imagine today, then I just think things are looking a little bit light creatively and Fran really offers that. So that is what

surprised me slightly. I thought she had an outside chance of making the team. I just with, you know, Kiera Walsh, Georgia Stamway, Ella Toon, Jess Park, Grace Clinton as your sort of midfield core, you're then looking and obviously LJ sort of in the pack of forwards that can drop into the 10. I suppose Russo can do that too to a certain extent but yeah, I think there's just a little bit of creativity missing that I don't think any of the more fringe players, the Missy Bo Kearns, the Laura Blink-Elder Browns necessarily bring that I think she maybe would have added a little bit of value. But I think that's very much an opinion that would divide, because I think some people would say, no, she probably shouldn't be in the squad and others would say maybe outside chance like I am but yes I'm

slightly surprised by that but again like you know when you've got a player that has struggled with injuries and stuff in the way that Fran has and things and then you're also taking a Lauren James probably who is not gonna be fully fit then do you want you know two players that cannot play 90 minutes in every game and blah blah. So yeah, complicated. It's a difficult decision. That's the one they've made. Yeah, well that's what Serena gets paid for, isn't it? For sure. And it is a shame for Frank Kirby because it would have been a wonderful swan song for her. And she's had a great season at Brighton this season for sure.

Can I just interject and not let you Ava get away with something before we go on to... Of course! ... that Frank Kirby is not going to this tournament because they've got inconsistent squad sizes compared to the men's Euros with 26 players and the women's with only 23. An unexplained discrepancy by UEFA and she should be going, Fran. I don't think it's remotely okay that they give different squad sizes for the men's Euros and women's Euros. And so for any England fans who are sad that Franco is not going to this tournament, one of the people they should really be cross out is UEFA for that very unexplained discrepancy between the two tournaments.

And I shall there stop my rant. No, that's a very good point. And I did wonder that earlier when I saw 23 and I thought, how many did they have for the World Cup? I'm pretty sure I can't actually remember. I'd have to have a look back at the squad list. 23 plus three standby that they could use up until the tournament.

That's it. Now, this is what I don't quite understand. There shouldn't be, because the whole point of having bigger squads, it was introduced in the first place because of COVID and the whole point of having bigger squads, it was introduced in the first place because of COVID. And the whole point of having bigger squads is because of the load that is on players nowadays, male and female athletes, both male and female athletes. So yes, I agree. Susie, you got your hand up. I feel like I'm the school teacher today. I feel like it's about it. I think I think it's a budget thing. I think it's financial. I think they don't want to pay for the extra players

budget thing, I think it's financial. I think they don't want to pay for the extra players to travel. I mean, I know not all of this is from UEFA, but yeah, I think it is UEFA like tightening the purse strings, they've got a budget set for 23 players. And then if you start adding more to every single squad, that increases the amount of money that has to be spent on accommodation, on travel, like, and for, yeah, some of the smaller nations, maybe they don't feel that that is, like, fair to put on them. But I think, I think, I think it's an outrageous decision, like, because for me, that's them prioritising finance over, like, player welfare and safety. It's not an informed opinion. It's like, that is my opinion that I reckon it's a financial one because otherwise why wouldn't they do it? Like why

wouldn't they do it? It's an interesting strategy. If that's what it is, we'll try and delve a little bit more into that and find out what the reasoning was before we speculate. Right. So then we kind of rewind all the way back to last Tuesday and the afternoon afterward recorded the pod. Mary Earps announced that she was going to be retiring from international football with a media effect Which I think just sent us all a bit Really, I think this kind of hit us all a little bit. She posted on social media I've taken the difficult decision to retire internationally

It's been the greatest honor and privilege of my life to wear this badge represent my country and play alongside such an incredible group of players. I spent a long time making this decision. It's not one I've made lightly. For me, ultimately, this is the right time to step aside and give the younger generation an opportunity to thrive. Winning the Euros in 2022 is the best day of my life and I'm rooting for the girls to do it again this summer. My journey has never been the simplest and so in true Mary fashion fashion this isn't a simple goodbye right before a major tournament. Nonetheless I know this is a right decision. Tom, I mean first of all let's sum up her international career shall we because she changed the face of goalkeeping in many ways, played a huge role for England at both the

Euros and the World Cup. She's going to be a huge loss. An enormous loss in many different ways. I would say the greatest goalkeeper to wear the shirt that England have had so far, that's probably without dispute now. And I think Susie and I and Sophie as well, any of us who were kind of there in the media session in Brisbane when she launched her kind of scathing attack on Nike. I think that was unforgettable as a media experience for seeing a player speak in such a powerful and passionate way about a topic that will leave a legacy now for a long time with girls getting involved in goalkeeping.

So she's done so, so much for the sport. This has been a controversial thing, hasn't it? I've heard two very, very different sort of takes and reactions from people, you know, in and around the camp or with knowledge of what's been going on in and around the camp. There are some people who are very confused and I think frustrated by the timing, but there's also a huge number of people behind the scenes who've got massive sympathy for Mary Earps. The Guardian's understanding is it's something that she's been thinking about for quite a long time. This was not a last minute decision or a spur of the moment decision. And can I add into that because I had noticed

on LinkedIn she was starting to change, you know, and post a little bit more. So I don't think it was a knee jerk without a doubt. I think she's been planning, you know, something going forward for sure. I promise, I promise this is I'm saying this truthfully, I'm not just making this up now. But my honest gut feeling after the World Cup was that Earps might retire from England, did you have to the Olympics for GB? And also they didn't qualify. And I, hey, listen, only Mary Earps knows what's been going on in her mind. But that, that was my genuine gut feeling as they were going through that campaign to try and qualify for the Olympics. And it felt like that might've been the natural sort of step.

That is a big call. It's a big call from Serena Vigman to go with Hannah Hampton, hugely talented young goalkeeper, and it leaves England with very, very few, no caps amongst the second and third choice goalkeepers. So, um, it's a big call and I get the impression from the players that they do respect this. And I hope that the respect is on Mary Epps making the decision when she wanted to make the decision. I don't think she really owed England anything.

She gave incredible performances on the pitch, won the Euros, got to the World Cup final and part of that group who I feel deserved to have the right to call their time when they want to. But it will sting with the timing of course as well. Two things can be true at the same time I think. Yeah, I agree. And you talk about that lack of experience, Kiara Keating and Anna Morehouse, obviously both really strong at club level for Manchester City and Orlando Pride, but they don't have a cap between them. How much of a worry if anything was to happen to Hannah Hampton? So obviously both of those keepers are more than capable of stepping into the role, but playing at a major tournament is very different to playing in a league.

tournament is very different to playing in a league. It is. I've got two conflicting parts of my brain on this because, touch wood, it doesn't, but something happened to Hannah Hampton in the first game and you suddenly thrust, I would imagine, a big Chiara Keating into the limelight. I would think that she is now the number two. It is a big pressure situation for Chiara. She's young. She's not had that

experience at an international level. Yes, she's shone at times on the stage from Manchester City, but it's a whole different experience being in a major tournament. And you either see keepers really, really claim that or they can sink or swim. And I do think though, in Euro 2022, in the first game for the Netherlands, goalkeeper got injured and Daphne van Domsloor came in and that was the making of her. And she really, really, you know, has never looked back ever since. Now she's a Champions League winner and she's the number one for the Netherlands. And I remember in the 2015 World Cup as well, Karen Barsley got a piece of rubber from the

pitch in her eye in the middle of the quarterfinal against Canada. Literally the most important game England had played for a long time. She got a piece of rubber in the eye and couldn't see. And Siobhan Chamberlain came onto the pitch and really, really took control of that game. So people can step up in these moments and you never really know who will and who won't. But there is of course that underlying worry, I guess, because they are so untested. You never know quite know what's going to happen. But there are also examples where people have really come to the fore and shone in those situations. I love it. You're always positive and I think you're absolutely spot on and with an example

as well to prove your point perfectly put, Soph. Susie, just to kind of round this all up, you know, it's been a really unusual week. It feels quite unstable at the moment. Unwanted noise that Serena Vigmen as well probably could have done without five weeks out from the start of a major tournament. It potentially could have disrupted her plans as well. We don't really know. What does she need to do to try and steady the ship? And what does the past week say about the current state of the Lionesses behind the scenes? Yes, good question. I mean, we're recording this little part of the podcast before the Squad announcement, breaking the wall or whatever.

And there's no wall with our listeners. We're honest with all of you out there. And what she needs to do is announce her squad very, very quickly because then no more can pull out of it. So I think that needs to happen and that should like, I think dull the noise of all this drama a little bit. I mean, in terms of what's going on in camp, I don't know. I mean obviously they're all very different reasons as to why they've gone. Fran not being

picked, Mary a little bit less clear and Millie her mental health. So like they are three very different reasons but they don't speak necessarily to a desire to stay and fight and be in that environment, which does set off a few alarm bells. And I know that Serena didn't have the happiest of camps when she left the Netherlands in terms of the way she moved out older players and things like that. She's known for being open and quite firm and honest in sort of her intentions and things like that, which is something that players really appreciate I think when things are going well, but maybe when things aren't going so well, that can grate a little bit. So I'm purely speculating with very, very little knowledge

of what it's actually like in camp, but something isn't quite right. But I hope that the squad announcement brings a little bit of like stability and clarity for players that helps them able to just sort of knuckle down and focus on things going straight into the tournament. Yeah, it's a really good point. It's one of those things in leadership. Some people prefer the honest approach and being told directly so that they know exactly where they stand. And some people won't agree with the decision and therefore won't like that kind of assessment. And I mean, I'm somebody personally who likes to have an honest conversation

and know where I stand, but not everybody is, is like that. Right. So listen, I have already told you all that we recorded that part of the pod earlier on this morning because we wanted to wait for the squad announcement to bring it to you live, which is exactly what we're doing. Tom Gary from his bedroom earlier on has now made his way to St George's Park where he sits with his headphones on because the 23 player squad has now been announced by Serena Vigman for Euro 2025. And obviously there are a big couple of headlines with the inclusion of both Lauren James, who is still recovering from a hamstring injury and 19 year old Michelle Ajuman.

So let's run through the list of 23 before we get the panel's thoughts, shall we? So the three goalkeepers Hannah Hampton, Kiara Keating and Anna Morehouse. Lucy Bronze, Jess Carter, Neve Charles, Alex Greenwood, Mea Letizier, Esme Morgan, Leah Williamson and Lotte Rubin-Moy. The defenders are Midfield, Grace Clinton, Jess Park, Georgia Stanway, Ella Toon and Keira Walsh and then forwards Michelle Ajuman, Aggie Beaver-Jones, Lauren Hemp, Lauren James, Chloe Kelly, Beth Mead and Alessia Russo. Right Tom just take us through what it was like you were in the room when the squad was announced I hear there was

poetry involved. Tell me about the poetry after you tell me your take on the squad. Yes it was a very positive mood here really compared to the last week. In terms of The Squad, no massive surprises. I think most of the reporters here in the room could have confidently predicted at least 20 of that 23 and we were all fairly sure on the 21st because we all thought that Lotta Wibimoi was most likely to replace Milly Bright. So then it was just two real big questions that were left. Would Lauren James be deemed fit enough to go and who would be the 23rd player? And it's turned out that that will be Michelle Aguimang, who obviously is the young wild card in the pack, the joker in the pack maybe for Serena Wigman. And I think generally there's a lot of positivity and excitement about the

players that have been picked. It's maybe a little bit lighter midfield. Eegman was asked about that and she said she feels that players who are in the forward line can kind of play in other positions and she feels there's enough movability within the squad. So overall, I think no massive surprises and clearly a really exciting moment for Michelle Aguimange. Yeah it is, we'll talk about her in a second but you know really the headline is is Lauren James being selected she's been out since April with that hamstring injury and you know Serena Vigman isn't going to bring her she doesn't think she's going to be ready at some point Sophie. Yeah I think that's the thing I think there are some players you take a bit of a risk on and if she's anywhere close

to being fully fit, you kind of name her in that squad. She is that player for England. She is a creative spark. She can change the game. We all know all of her qualities and what she can do. She can also play in multiple positions. She can play in the left wing, she can play in the right wing, and she can play in that 10.

And she has that vision and ability to unlock defences like no other England player I think but also England can you know take out a player before their first match day they have up until their first match day so if she really really isn't fit and it isn't able to make the championship the tournament they can swap her out for another player up until that first game day so they do have time with her as well. But I am not surprised at all that she was named. I think you take a punt on her. She's one of those star players and you kind of, even if she is 80% fit and you're looking at the knockout stages as a potential for her coming back, you take her. Yeah and actually there are four players on the standby list as well. Sophie Bagley of Brighton, Laura Blinkhilde-Brown, Missy Bo Kairns and Lucy Parker as well. They're

actually going to stay with the squad at St George's Park from the meetup on Monday the 16th of June all the way until the squad travelled to Switzerland on Monday the 30th of June. So plenty of time to decide if they're needed or not. Suzie do you mind if I tell everybody that you just said you would 100% take Lauren James even if she was on one leg with gangrene? In fact, I've just said it, so I hope you don't mind. No, no, it's true. I'll take her one leg. If that one leg had gangrene, I would still be taking her whatever it takes. I think we need that creativity in the side.

Yeah. And we need the youth and the pace of Michelle Adjiman who's had a brilliant breakout season, hasn't she? Was that the big surprise of the day or did you think that she was going to get the call up? Well, if you ask Sophie, she knows that I was saying that I didn't think she was going to get picked, but I hoped she would get picked. I really wanted to see her in the squad. I think partly because, I mean, Serena said that she brings something different and I think that's important is that she's a very different profile of Stryker to what we've got. But also, it's just that air of unpredictability, which I think was quite special off the bench at the 2022 Euros in that Russo and Thun were a little

bit unknown sort of on the world stage. And so we're able to sort of come on and just tear things up because because no one really knew what they were gonna do so I think there's that also when I was looking at the bench for the Spain game I was a little bit concerned about how light they were in terms of like really solid impact players from an attacking point of view obviously there's a lot of forwards named in the side but you, once you've got the starters taken out, I mean, it was Beth Mead over Chloe Kelly for that game against Spain and obviously

Lauren James wasn't available, but if you're taking out say, a Beth Mead or a Kelly, it left one on the bench, which was Chloe Kelly against Spain. And then there was Aggie B for Jones and that was really it in terms of like real like goal scoring impetus from the bench. And I think yeah, having a third option there is a huge, huge boost is a lot of pressure on it on young shoulders. But I think that was part of the beauty of 2022 is that that pressure wasn't that heavy on Toon and Russo. It was like, go on, play with freedom, see what you can do. And if like they were able to treat her in a similar way, and she's able to sort of, yeah, come on when legs are sort of tiring, and

come on as a bit of an unknown, then there's a real, real kind of bright spark there potentially. LESLEY HILGREAVE Yeah, and Tom, earlier on, we said about losing experience from the squad. But actually, we've seen Lauren Hemp, Alex Greenwood and Georgia Stamway back for England over the past week. How important is it that they're there? I think they're three of 13 players that were part of the squad who made history lifting the trophy in 2022 but it's vital that that experience is still there. Absolutely, Faye. Serena Veman was asked if she felt the experience in the squad was sufficient. She clearly does.

She says she thinks there's a good dynamic between and a good balance between the players who are new and fresh, together with those who've been to tournaments before. She referenced, I think, 16 members of the squad having been to a major tournament before. She was obviously happy with that. And, you know, having Hemp back is absolutely crucial.

She's that sort of game changer, that winger who will give fullbacks a complete nightmare. And we saw how well she played in the World Cup semi-final, for example, one of the better performances we've seen from her in an England shirt. And players who have been there and done it like that, again, are gonna be so important. I think Greenwood coming back in time is great and George Stanway will also we think be fully

fit by the time the tournament comes around. So in general there's a lot more calls for optimism than there perhaps was in the last 24 hours where I would be slightly cautious still on the experience element is in the goalkeepers in that we know that nobody apart from Hannah Hampton has any caps. So that's still potentially a risk if anything was to happen to Hampton. Yeah, there is a bit of a blend isn't there between experience and use now, Susie. But overall, if we look at the squad, you know what it's like when the squad comes out, you go, okay, I've got a good feeling or I'm not quite sure. What is your overall feeling having just seen the squad? Generally optimistic. Like I think on paper, it's a really, really good squad. There's a lot of

strength there. You're saying 16 players that have been to major tournaments. You've got the Arsenal players just back from winning the Champions League. You've got Jess Carter just back from winning the first CONCACAF Champions Cup. Like, this is a squad that does have that experience. There's a good balance to it. Millie Bright is a huge blow because she'd be an almost certain starter. Leo Williamson and Alex Greenwood are fairly similar players but they do also work well together. We've seen so many injuries in centreback in the past few years that they've sort of all had to play with each other at different points. Yeah, the only real worry is whether

anything happens to Hanhampton, but like that's a big if, right? Like how often, I'm tempting fate aren't I? How often do we see a... Don't worry, your predictions are terrible. Predict away and we'll be fine. But I'm predicting it not to happen, so that's not good. Oh, hang on a minute. Yeah. Oh no. How often do we see, you know, starting goalkeeper get injured at a major tournament to the extent

that they can't play for the rest of it or ahead of a major tournament? It's pretty rare. So, I mean, it's a big if, but I've just made sure that it will 100% happen. And I'm really sorry for all the listeners. I just think Alexandra Popp in the team photo they're not starting the Euros final, that's all I ever think about. Outfield though, outfield, goalkeepers, you don't see what goalkeepers. I know what you mean, I know what you mean.

With that in mind, Soph, just to wrap this up a bit, five recognised midfielders, that's a bit of a worry. Tom mentioned it earlier on as well. Is that the other kind of bit as well as Hannahampton that's of concern, do you think? Yeah, I mean it is light in that area for sure, but I do think you can move players around as well. You can have Eldred who comes into midfield to come and send to the 10, Lauren James, or you can have someone like Elia Williamson or Mea Letizier drop into the 6th if needs be. Stanway can also play the 6th. A lot of these midfielders, maybe Ba Kira Walsh can play in multiple positions.

So I think you do have backup across the midfield line. But yes, it is a worry that there's not that many from the pool to choose from. I've seen some comments on social media about how light we are, like England are in that area and I think it is a fair point. I would say that coming through the pathway, there is some significant talent coming through and they're just not there quite yet. When you look at, you know, Maisie Simon's got her first call-up last camp. She's not quite there yet.

She's 22, but she has a bright future ahead of her. When you're looking even further down into the 90s, you've got someone like Alexia Bottar or Leila Harbert, both play number six. Ruby Mace as well, can't forget about her. So I think there is a starting to become a pool of talent behind that I think will come into fruition for the next cycle, for the World Cup cycle. They're just not there yet. But for this case, yes, there is a maybe a slight lack of depth, but I think there are areas where you can work around it and cover it up. Yeah.

Susie. I just hope we see some of those young, uh, midfielders coming through, get opportunities at some of the big clubs, because I think that could be part of the problem is that their pathway may be blocked. I mean, you look at this squad and I think, is it every player plays for the ones that play in the WSL play for one of the top four so that is slightly alarming for me like if that barrier is if there's a barrier in the way at club level into those midfielder roles because there's a lot of like international talent who are great and assets to the league then

either Serena's to have to start going to some of those other clubs for those players or something is going to have to shift and there's going to have to be a little bit of recognition that this is an area that needs more attention from clubs as well. And with that in mind, the one omission that I was surprised about was Nikita Paris, not even on the standby list and of course not in a team that plays in the top four. Yeah, I think she's had a pretty good season Nikita Paris. It was probably between her

and Michelle Ajumang for that final spot, if you're thinking about the forward places and I think there is a look to the future. I don't think when you're looking at Nikita Paris she's not going to probably, don't want to prematurely end her England career at all by any means, but when you're looking at her age and you know where she's headed in her career now and the 2027 World Cup, Michelle Argumang is that player who will be making that step up in the next two years to be that proper seat, like that full-time senior player. So I do kind of understand the decision in that. Don't forget as well, Michelle Aguimang played for Brighton this season.

So while she is an Arsenal player who is a parent club, she was at Brighton all season. So she has had that kind of lower down team experience. I think there is a, I think it's a problem with the WSL in general is that there is a big gap between the top four and the rest of the league in terms of I guess individual quality of players. I think on any day a team can beat another team but I think they're still pushing to get to that level right where they're you know

maintaining there and it will get there. I'm pretty sure it will get there but it's going to take a couple of years for them to get that standard up. Yep, without a doubt. Right, so that's the 23 going out as it stands to Switzerland. Wonderful stuff. That's it for part one. In part two, we're going to talk through the conclusion to the Nations League group stage. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So, England closed out their Nations League campaign last week with a win over Portugal and then defeat to Spain that saw them miss out on the semi-finals of the competition again. So Friday night England returned to Wembley in style, put six past Portugal to no reply. Aguibiva Jones scored

her first England hat-trick. There were also goals for Lucy Bronze, Beth Mead and Chloe Kelly. And I mean they just blew them away, Suzy, didn't they really? Karen Barsley lauded it as a vintage England performance. Is this maybe the closest we've seen them to their dominant best? It was a great performance and really enjoyable to watch, very fluid and clinical. And like I think it's easy as well to be a little bit dismissive of Portugal and go, oh well it was just Portugal. But like Portugal being an utter thorn in the side of England for some time now. I think the last two games were draws, one was a one-all, one was a 0-0, and the last time they beat Portugal, if you remember correctly, is the really, really sloppy,

scrappy 1-0 away game in one of Phil Neville's last games in charge that was, I think, the ball of Phil Neville's last games in charge that was, I think, the ball went in off of Beth Mead's bum into the goal or something. It was like even the goal was terrible. The whole game was awful. And so like it's been that long since we beat Portugal. So it's like so easy to go, oh, well, they're ranked this, they're one of the lowest ranked teams in the Euros, blah, blah, blah. But actually, like they've not been an easy side to play. And England often struggled against teams that that are sort of lower ranked than them and don't necessarily offer a lot of space at the back for them to maneuver with so seeing like Agi B. Jones get on the

score sheet in such emphatic style and Beth Mead, Chloe Kelly be like so incisive, you know, obviously Lucy scoring as well and then Just that the amount of clinicalness for want of a less rubbish word in that first half was really like a really, really good sign going into a major tournament. Talking about clinicalness, is that how you said it? Yes. But anyway, they've been criticised for that. But nine shots on

target, six goals and four different goal scorers is not a bad return. I think it's fair to say Tom. It was good. England were good in front of goal. Yeah, I think I think Susie's outlined it well, doesn't need the context that Portugal were poor, were poor side. And I if they play like that in the year as I dread to think how many goals they'll you know they'll concede against Spain for example. It was encouraging for England I think that what we're seeing is if God forbid there was any injury or problem with someone like Russo or anyone else in the forward line England have got so much talent in the rest of the forward line that I still think that'd be really dangerous in this tournament with whoever's in the front three. And that Portugal game was probably a really good example of that. But the real test was how they got on in Barcelona. And

unfortunately, realistically, they were in Spain were far superior. And so as good as good as they deserve praise for how well they played against Portugal, the real marker was the game against the world champions where they were not just beating, but I think significantly outperformed in terms of technical ability on the ball. And so we come away from the whole week thinking that lots of positives, but realistically, England know that Spain are the favourites for this tournament now. Yeah, we are going to analyse the game properly because that was the key game, really. I think the Portugal game shows the strength in depth that we've got, particularly Aguibeva Jones has had a brilliant season so far for Chelsea but a 30 minute hat trick in her first start for England you know made sure that she was going to be selected to head to Switzerland

this summer. What more does she add to this England team and how important could she potentially be? I think she is probably the best instinctive goalkeeper goal goalkeeper, goal scorer we've got. I mean we need another goalkeeper more arguably. I think her thing is she's still incredibly young but I think her ability when she's in the box to find the back of the net is ridiculous for her age and we've seen it with Chelsea this season she finished her top scorer I think in the league with like nine goals so she has you know without starting every single game I think she's really come on in the second

half of the year as well. She had her England debut, she scored her first England goal. She started becoming a starter for Chelsea as well in the latter stages of the season. She scored that goal against Liverpool that sent them to the FA Cup final and then in the league as well. So I think she's really come to the fore. She will still be behind Alessia Russo. You can't really argue with that. Alessia Russo has kind of done her time

being there kind of understudied to Ellen White. And I think Alessia Russo's season as well with Arsenal has shown how much she's developed as a goal scorer. But it's really useful for England to have that kind of backup. And I think about Euro 2022 and you had Ellen White going to the tournament and you had Alessia Russo behind her. And you had faith, as Tom said, in kind of any one of those two going into a game and making a difference and scoring a goal. So it's really, really valuable.

I think that at this time, she's really taken up the step up because maybe even six months ago, it didn't look like she was really in with a shot with getting a starting place with England or being properly included in the squad so it's definitely changed massively over the last six months and it couldn't have come at a better time I guess for the Lionesses. Tom you've been desperate to talk about the Spain game already that is the one that counts ultimately you know they traveled to Barcelona they knew they needed victory in order to top the Nations League, but also strike a bit of fear into some of the opponents ahead of the Euros in Switzerland.

But ultimately they didn't and it finished Spain 2, England 1, Spain coming from behind to win. Alessio Russo fired the Lionesses into a first half lead, scoring on a 50th cap. But Spain mounted a comeback in the second half substitute Claudio Pena scored a brace and you know, it was an entirely different challenge for England against the world champions. They did beat them 1-0 in the reverse leg, but this was always going to be a tough fixture, Tom. Does this create panic now or does it highlight where they need to improve?

Shouldn't create panic. Absolutely not. The game for me exemplified why Spain are the best team in the tournament. But England, having said that, England do have like a blueprint for how to win against Spain. They showed it at Wembley and they were kind of doing it again in the first half. So they'll actually take quite a lot of optimism from the fact that they were winning at half time when they had their near enough first choice 11 playing in the game. It was only really in the second half when Spain subs came on like peanut and England made their own subs and got weaker with the subs that they brought on with a little bit of experimentation that the Gulf really started to become apparent. So put it this way, if England do end up meeting Spain at the tournament in a one-off neutral venue,

both teams are the first 11, that they'll have the belief that they could knock them out, but they're going to need to give their best performance and Spain have a slightly off day, I would imagine, which is kind of what we saw at Wembley, but they show them they can do it. So do we know, sorry to answer your question, there'll be no alarm, I don't think. But, you know, we have witnessed clear evidence that Spain are going to be the strongest team at this tournament. They're in a relatively kind group. They're in the early half of the draw. So, you know, if they do get to the latter stages, they'll have had more days recovery than teams like England and France in group D. So I came away from Barcelona with the sort of lazy conclusion of what we're

most likely to go and watch in July is we'll watch 16 teams play football and eventually Spain will lift the trophy is the most probable scenario. And maybe, maybe something different will happen, but that's how I flew out of Barcelona with, with that sort how I flew out of Barcelona with that sort of rough assumption on the evidence of what we'd seen. Okay. I can see why you came to that conclusion, but I need you to channel more of Soph's positive energy, please.

Suzie, Tom mentioned the changes there. She had to do that Serena Vigman because Georgia Stamway is only just coming back to fitness. Ella Toon was on limited minutes. Grace Clinton absent because of a yellow card accumulation, meaning that Missy Bo Cairns made her debut in midfield. And I'm wondering whether it was the midfield area where that game was won and lost. Yeah, I mean, it's tough, maybe slightly more positive than Tom in that, like, I think there was a lot that is different about this game than it will would be maybe in a major tournament itself should they meet in the, you know, I don't think you necessarily

start Jess Park in the 10. Like, I think you're more likely to see a Lauren James or an Ella Toon and maybe start Chloe Kelly ahead of Beth Meade on current form and then you have Beth Meade on the bench coming on and making a bit more of an impact. I think the bench is a little bit of an issue when you look at the bench in that game it is a little bit light in terms of like attacking, experienced attacking quality. I'd have liked to see like a Michelle Ajiman come on maybe at the end and just get a couple of minutes to see what she would do against a Spain. Like I think that would have been quite exciting. But like, you know, England are never going to have a lot of the ball. So that midfield battle is both critical and not critical in that I think the job there is more

of a defensive one than necessarily a to dominate possession one and it's who is going to do the best job at that. I think there's a blueprint there both in how they played in the reverse fixture but also in how Arsenal played against Barcelona as well where there's a lot of similar players in that Spain team and looking at those and taking the lessons from those, there's a lot to learn. Missy Bo-Kerns coming on was a bit of a surprise, but I think when you're trying to decide who is going to be the last midfielder in your squad, the sort of slightly wild card one, then maybe seeing her in an environment like that was particularly important for Serena at that time

to bring her on instead of someone like, I mean, who else was on the bench in that? I can't even think who was on the bench. I mean, there wasn't a huge amount of choice in midfield. This is the problem. Midfield is light. This is why I would have taken Frank Kirby to the Euro roast. So yeah, like I think that is going to be a problem. Midfield is light of rotatable experience. My English is really, really great today. And yeah, like I'd like to see. It's been a long week, Sus, don't you worry. I'd just, that's the only thing I'd have a little bit of concern over. But overall, I'm

not overly like Spain are very, very good. I think England can be better than they may be showed in that game. And there was a little bit of experimentation. Obviously we're still Stanway, Greenwood and Hemp are all still relatively new back onto the turf. So I'm like, as long as they get plenty of training minutes in between now and the tournament kicking off and they've got the game against Jamaica, I'm not hugely concerned that this will be

an accurate reflection of what it would look like if they meet in the knockout stage. Yeah, I know what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. Right, so elsewhere in the Nations League, the rest of the home nations were in action and Wales suffered a decisive 4-1 defeat at home to Italy, one that Rhian Wilkinson described as a punch in the face. Their relegation to League B had already been confirmed after that 1-0 loss away to Denmark. So come on then Sophie, spin your positive sprinkles on this one. It was that kind of game of two halves wasn't it? Let's focus on what positives they can take particularly from that first 45 minutes. I mean yeah I do think I was actually more positive than everyone else it

seems. Maybe it's my complete disdain for the Nations League and that's coming into it because you know I famously hate that competition but I think at the same time the first half was a really good blueprint I think as kind of was mentioned before for what England can do and there were really clear reasons why the second half dropped off. Lucy Bronze came off at 60 minutes, that's not going to happen in the Euros right. There was a real managing of minutes I think that was going on that we haven't probably seen in other games. Vigmen is not traditionally one to make changes that early and she did because she knows the the tournament is kind of more important and the fitness of her

players is more important for that point. So I think there's a lot England can take from it. I think there are weaknesses in the Spanish team, I know that's crazy to say when you look at them, the way that they control the ball. But when you get at them directly, and I think this is where England fell down in the second half, they didn't get enough direct balls to Alessia Russo to allow her to run at their back line because that back line do not like players running at them. And that is kind of the way, you know, you can really get at them and that is kind of the way you know you can really get at them and hit them where it hurts and hit them on the counter attack. I think probably the problem is everyone expects you to go into a game possessing the ball and you're not

going to do that against Spain. No matter how much you like playing possession football you're just not going to do it against them. They are the best at controlling the football so you have to work with what you've got. You have to force them wide. You have to pack those central areas. And I think in the second half when England lost Stamway, that central area pack kind of lost because Macy Bo Kearns is a brilliant young player, but she's not quite at the level, I think, of a Georgia Stamway. And she's not the same kind of player either of Georgia Stamway. They're kind of tenacious, kind of getting stuck in kind of player either of Georgia's standard, the kind of tenacious kind of getting stuck in kind of defensive side of the game.

So I think that's where it was clearly gone. And I do expect, as Suzy said, a different game if they were to meet in the summer. So I'm feeling not too bad about it. Good, good. I like that. I wonder how, if you're a Wales fan, you're feeling right now, because elsewhere in the Nations

League, the rest of the home nations were in in action and Wales suffered a decisive 4-1 defeat at home to Italy, one that Rhian Wilkinson described as a punch in the face. Their relegation to League B was already confirmed after that 1-0 loss away to Denmark. So what can they take from this campaign ahead of the Euros? It's not the best preparation, is it? Be better. I mean, it was really, really not great, particularly defensively against Italy. I mean, it was just all over the place.

And that is going to be concerning because like that is, you know, when you're sort of a minnow, particularly in a group of death like you are, you sort of need to be able to stem the flow against the likes of England, France and the Netherlands and to have not done so against Italy is going to be like particularly concerning. Yeah, four first half goals conceded is not a good look and there's a lot of work to do. I think that was the worst defeat under Rianne Wilkinson since she came in, which not great tournament prep. It's not the right way around, right? If you're going to have that defeat, you want it to be at the beginning of the campaign, not the end of the campaign. And I think they've done pretty well throughout the

Nations League to keep things tight. They don't have a goal scorer. I mean, they have Hannah Kane up front who can score goals, but she's not prolific in the sense, you know, that you kind of need someone to be. They have Jess Feschlok, who they rely on, like, incredibly. If she gets, you know, even a n niggle they're in trouble. They do like she holds she's the glue that holds the team together despite there being quality elsewhere and I think Sophie Ingle was training with them this week which is a positive sign because she's been out all season with an ACL injury. If they can get her even in to the squad just to bring that kind of experience she might not play a lot but to bring that kind of experience. She might not play a lot but to bring that kind of leadership. She was their captain obviously for years before Rhianne Wilkinson took charge so

that's going to be important for them but I do think it's a worry that this defeat came at this point right now because that's the last game you have at the moment before the tournament. They might play it friendly, they haven't announced it yet but yeah I think it is just a bit of a worry, a bit of a thing to a warning sign, a red flag. Yes a red flag and actually when Suzy first said could do better I felt I felt you were channeling your inner Chris Powros with your school report could do better. Scotland were also relegated from League A despite improved outings in their first games under Melissa Andreata. They lost 1-0 at home to Austria before drawing 1-1 with the Netherlands in Tilburg. They also said a fond farewell to Rachel Corsi who's retired from

football. Northern Ireland meanwhile secured a promotion playoff spot in League B. Tanya Oxby's side lost 4-0 to Poland but then drew one all with Bosnia and Herzegovina. A little bit of other business to wrap up for you. Sheffield United have been given a reprieve they're going to play in the Barclays WSL2 next season after all despite relegation last season because Blackburn Rovers have withdrawn because of financial reasons so WSL football made a request to the FA for the Blades reinstatement to tier 2 that we can confirm has been approved. Blackburn on the other hand will now play in the FA Women's

National League Division 1 North which is tier 4 and devastating for them, Soph. It is for the players and the staff in particular. I mean, that's what I meant, not the club. I'm talking about the people involved in it. Yeah, so for the players, I just feel so badly for the players. You know, they've literally had it kind of torn from under them overnight. And I imagine there's going to be quite an exodus this summer as those players who, you know, are of tier two standard, who can play in the WSL2 are looking for home self elsewhere and there's plenty of quality in that squad they just haven't been given the

resources or the you know the investment that they need to get it done and I think there's a longer discussion a big much longer discussion to talk about what Blackburn's owners have done to the women's team a team that has had so much kind of history and heritage in the women's game it's really really sad you know the likes of Ella Toon came through Rovers. There's a lot of you know young England youth that have been produced by that club and nurtured by that club and it's so sad that there are owners out there who still don't see the value of the women's game or running women's teams. And yeah, I just feel for them massively.

But hopefully they'll find her homes elsewhere that where they can continue their careers. Yeah, and it's the fans I feel for as well, you know, that the players will find new homes, but the fans, that's their team. I'll just add one thing. One of the most bonkers things about their statement is that they said that because of the they they moved to Ewood Park and they didn't see, one of the reasons for cutting the women's team is because they didn't see a drastic improvement in attendances and I'm sorry if you don't have a marketing manager or your proper press officer doing that like it doesn't build itself you know you can't just move to a big stadium and they just come You need to put in the work as Arsenal say have shown behind the scenes of what they're doing with the Emirates

You need to put in the words get people came and it really just like the wording of the press statement made it sound like they Really expected that they moved it to Ewood Park and Sunday They have a horde of followers blackburn men can't even fill that stadium and they play in that You know the second division of the men that stadium and they play in the second division of the men's league in the championship. So they just really, I mean, that kind of took the biscuit for me. It just showed everything about the club. Field of Dreams has a lot to answer for, right? Like if you build it, they will come. No, put in some more work. It doesn't work that way.

Yeah, unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah, unfortunately, still believable. Right, what a week it has been. Utter craziness. How the three of you have got through it, I do not know, but culminated in what I have, what I can only describe as one of the most enjoyable pods of the season. So thank you for that. Tom Garry, get yourself home safe. It has been a very long day for you. Thank you very much and an absolute pleasure working with you all season. Yes well don't you worry you're coming back. Gonna have a busy old summer. I'm gonna tell everybody when we'll be back very shortly.

Soph, lovely to see you as always. Happy official end of the season if you like. Finally we got there, we made it. Yeah thanks for having me. Always, always. Susie Rack, love you, see you later. See you later. Listen, we will see you all later as well. We've got the next three weeks off and I know that we usually drop our pod on a Tuesday for you, but we're going to have a special Euros preview, one of two shows actually that we've got for you but this one comes out on Friday the 27th of June so make sure you get ready to download that one obviously subscribe and then it will download

automatically and we'll be back in your ears before you know it you lucky lot keep having your say as well send in your questions via social media email us as well at women's football weekly at the guardian.com we love getting your messages as ever, a reminder to sign up for our weekly Women's Football Newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts, sign up and we'll be back very, very soon with all of our Euro 2025 coverage. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Salamat. This is The Guardian.