The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - European drama, England’s dilemma and Daniel Levy – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzanne Wrack, Flo Pollock and Mayowa Quadri to round up the WCL semi-final first legs, Leah Williamson’s injury blow and the latest WSL and Championship action

This is The Guardian. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. After a week where we sold out bubble wrap and distributed it to the lionesses for the next two months, we'll chat ACLs and how Serena Wiegmann plans to navigate the World Cup without her captain. Arsenal's fighting spirits are a classy comeback in the Champions League against Wolfsburg, while Chelsea are still in their tie ahead of a trip to Barcelona.

Manchester City take advantage of their title rivals European Antics to go second in the WSL. Bristol City are promoted. And let's talk Levy. We'll discuss all that. Take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, what a panel we have today. Susie Rack, fresh from a trip to Germany.

How was it? It was great. We sat on a massive green bench, which is the only highlight in Wolfsburg, other than the football, obviously. And yeah, we were all very, very excited about the big green bench. I saw the press pack.

I think there were like 10 of you. I was talking to a rival papers journo in Molly Hudson, who's all of our friends. So no rivalry there at all. And she said it was great fun and you all thoroughly enjoyed yourselves. Flo Pollock, I'm sure, was enjoying herself as a happy Arsenal fan watching that as well.

Yeah, I was. I missed the opening bit and I tuned in when we were 2-0 down and I was like, oh. But then, yeah, it got it back to me. Yeah I mean and how many times do you get to say that but then yeah at the end. Maia Quadri maybe less happy but not too sad of a Chelsea fan. Not too sad not too sad I mean if you think of flashbacks against Barcelona you just think

about the worst right so it's not the worst scenario in the world it's still there to play for. Absolutely I love a bit of positivity, Maiwa. Thank you very much. Right, first and foremost, not so positive news, I'm afraid. Very negative, in fact, the confirmation. The England captain, Leo Williamson, will miss the World Cup after suffering an anterior cruciate ligament injury early in Arsenal's 1-0 defeat to Manchester United last week. Look, we didn't even get the chance to channel good vibes,

touch her knee on newspaper front pages or anything like that, unfortunately. Susie, I don't even know where to start with this apart from I think we're all pretty gutted, but no one more so than Leah. Oh, yeah. And it's all my fault. What have you done? In a book, we start a chapter with, I've never had a major injury that's kept me out for a season so yeah I blame I blame myself and Leah for speaking it into existence right so now the pod ends you exit we stopped doing the pod together forever yeah hit the road jack yeah it's not good it's not good no it's um it's devastating i really feel for her you know just a couple of weeks ago it was her birthday um you know she's celebrating turning 26

she's just written a book she's arsenal in england captain while kim little is out world at her feet everything's going so brilliantly you know world cup hopes look good and then suddenly it's all cut away by really horrific injury you just feel for her um and it's a lot of pressure as well because you know expectations particularly on england are so so high and then you've got the captain out who is extremely important to the back line but also important in terms of midfield backup too gone and that's a lot of a lot of pressure to shoulder and a lot of disappointment to shoulder as much as she's then shouldering her own which I can't imagine what it feels like to yeah feel desperately sorry for yourself but then also feel the the weight of that disappointment

from a lot of other people on you as well. But I think that's actually quite a big point that we need to say, because when you look at her statement that she put out on social media, where she in particular says, I haven't had a day since last October when I've walked onto the pitch without a physical or mental question mark over me. You know, the pressure on these athletes nowadays particularly those who are carrying carrying that weight on their shoulders as you said there Susie in terms of what happened during the Euros women's football as a whole it feels like there is so much pressure on them and then to have to to deal with this additionally it's a lot flow isn't it

yeah it is a lot and you feel fully and I think as well like I find it really difficult talking about these kind of things because I'm not not a sports scientist don't know anything about that you know what do I have to put on it but I think there's like a lot of research out there I think clubs need to start implementing that and thinking about like players loads and rotation and and how they manage that because it's it's at a bit of a breaking point isn't it really with Arsenal particularly like Beth Mead, Miedema, Williamson that's not sustainable so I think there needs to be some kind of action but yeah I mean again it's it's easy to say that isn't it but like I don't know what that is but yeah I think there

needs to be some kind of implementation of, look at the research, some implementation of that and just thinking about that more broadly because they need to address that really. Yeah, we're going to talk more about ACLs in part two. But Maya, where did England go from here? Because we still don't know when Millie Bright is going to be returning. And I think it's unlikely that she comes back for Chelsea before the end of the season. Yeah, exactly. This is the issue. And I mean, when you look at how England are set up in recent times as well, there's been this sort of deliberate, not too much rotation of the side,

familiarity, making sure that you're ready. So to lose key parts of your team going into a tournament where you're essentially favourites is absolutely massive. And we've mentioned it here and now, it's not just about the playing qualities, it's the leadership qualities, it's the feeling that this individual brings to the team that is going to be missed. And of course, Lia Sofaita, she'll be there in spirit,

she'll be there in person, but you can't replace that on the pitch. You see it in all sports. When you take away the leader, everyone's shoulders drops a little. Someone has to rise and pick up that mantle, but it's going be a massive massive miss as you mentioned with Millie as well missing yeah someone's gonna have to step up to the plate and really shoulder that responsibility yeah and it's only really youngsters the left really if you take out that experience partnership

of Millie Bright and Alex Greenwood you're left left with young players. And we'll talk about everybody's heart in their mouth when Lucy Bronze came off in the match against Barcelona the other day as well. We are going to talk more about ACL injuries in the second part of the pod. But we'll get into those two huge Women's Champions League semi-final first legs. And we'll start with Wolfsburg 2, Arsenal 2. Arsenal, as Flo, you said, conceded two goals in the first half. First from the UWCL top goal scorer this season, Ivo Peyor, and then the second gifted to Jonas Dottir by a terrible mistake from Arsenal

trying to play out from the back. I'm sure both Flo and Susie had their hearts in their mouths then. So much to unpack in this game though, Susie. First and foremost, what an incredible comeback. How important could that mental battle be going into the second leg? Absolutely huge. I mean, like never mind doing that when you've got like your fully fit first choice starting 11, but doing that with the forces forces that they had available which is still

a really strong starting 11 but it doesn't contain the sort of like absolute world-class quality of you know Viviana Miedema, Leah Williamson, Beth Mead that you know there's very very good players in there but they're and Kim Little you know cut above yeah like extraordinary I think there's maybe even some frustration that the goals are of your own making that you've conceded and you're not coming away with a win from that um Wolfsburg really should have put it to bed in the first half though I felt you know they really didn't like make the most of their dominance and I mean there was that flurry of chances right at the end of the game where you you thought that they were going to get a winner. We go wide of the post, off the post, that kind of thing.

But yeah, I mean, just incredible, resilient performance. I sort of asked Ida about it afterwards because previous seasons, particularly against sort of the best teams, Arsenal just sort of folded when they conceded and really, really struggled. And then this, within the last month and a half, we've seen the fight back against Chelsea, the Conte Cup final. We've seen them come from behind against Man City. We've seen them come from a goal down in the first leg against Bayern Munich and now this. And I think everyone thought that, I mean, I certainly did, that Aliyah's injury was going to be one injury too far

because it just disrupted the midfield too much where they're really, really light because obviously that's where she had moved into to make up for Kim Little's absence. And I think maybe that's part of the first half performance a little bit, that they fought that too because it was quite hesitant and very much almost giving up before it started.

And then they come back into it. And yeah, I just don't know where that mentality comes from to be able to do that. Well, I heard post-match interviews with Stina Blaxtenius and Katie McCabe, who both suggested that, you know, this team, when their back's against the wall, can do something special and they feel as if they're now playing for their teammates who cannot take part in this, you know, closing stages of the season. And you can definitely see that mentality switch. And the ball from Lotte Vuber-Moy was incredible, Flo. She was one of the players that really stepped up when Arsenal needed her. And as Susie said, this squad are now proving time and time again that they can

pull a performance out against the odds yeah I am feeling despite the injuries very very positive about Arsenal women and like for now in the future I really think I know I support the Arsenal so I say this but I think just the club in general there's something special going on at the moment just the way that the kind of togetherness like the fact that the emirates might sell out for the next leg against Wolfsburg that would be incredible the resilience to come back just think when we get all the players back meet them are me when they're all back it's going to be such a squad so yeah despite the injuries I am actually feeling really positive you talk about players stepping up as well lots of women boy I really want to shout out Steena Blackstenia

she came into so much criticism from a lot of people but not being able to put the ball in the net which is her job i get it you know there was talk about trying to replace her and she has just kept going and she's been so i think she's so crucial to how arsenal play in terms of not just not the goals not just the goal but the pressing she's so good on the press and I just think all of these players have really stepped up and yeah I feel positive about it I mean I actually have got tickets for the Champions League final going with producer Becky no way that I think Arsenal are going to be in it but they actually might I think it feels and sorry Myra we'll talk about Chelsea in a second it feels as if they're in a better position and arguably playing the better football

dare I say that but you know they do head to a packed out Emirates next Monday, it's looking like a crowd of nearly 50,000 as it stands at the moment, can they do it? I think they can, I mean the Bayern example was given but that word resilience, I think Arsenal are the most resilient team in the planet if any other team had those caliber of injuries to those players the mental fortitude to go out and still play i think that that three-letter term is probably not even mentioned in change rooms especially that change room because of the fear that it would bring into you but time and time again they rise to the occasion i think i saw the stat which said wolfsburg had played 172 games in the last five years and gone two new up

and not lost and then here comes arsenal injury depleted side come back to t2 if that tells you anything about that side it's that they are resilient and fair plays the whole you know the institution of how they've done things because now you have, like you said, 50,000 potentially in the second leg. That comes from not just this season, it comes from years of building something, really preparing, like Flo said. And this is why people really need to invest

in what they're doing because in moments like this, this is where it comes to the forefront. Now you're going to have a massive crowd that are bought in that really believe that they could get to, you know, European fans for the first time in 15 years going to have a massive crowd that are bought in that really believe that they could get to European Values for the first time in 15 years.

They have a really good opportunity. I think Wolfsburg are probably taken back by that performance more than anything because they should have killed the game off

and now they think okay we're going to have to go into Dairden and try and do the same thing again. So massive, massive opportunity

for them and I think Ford being back is going to be a really, really big one as well. Yeah, I was going to ask Flo about Caitlin Ford

in a second, actually. But Susie, Eva Peyor is top scorer in the Champions League this season. Eight goals to her name. How do Arsenal contain her in this second leg? With great difficulty. I mean, wherever she starts is another thing. Because, you know, the reason she started this game was because Alex Popp was out. Which, I mean, speaks to the level of depth they've got compared to Arsenal

in that Alex Popp could come back and potentially shift their Champions League top scorer onto the bench or, like, out of position. So, you know, comparatively, the depth is like polar opposites at the moment. Really difficult to stop. I actually thought Svenjus Jansdottir was the real threat though, the real one that caused all the problems, created opportunities for Payot a lot, really dynamic player. The back three really struggled to cope with her sort of movement, just really dynamic.

So for me, Jansdottier is the is the one I would be slightly more concerned about if anything because I think she really like played with that back line and created space for Pajota to do what she does best. I will ask you that question now Flo on Caitlin Ford that Maiwa mentioned there it would be huge wouldn't it um if she could come back and be fit for the second leg yeah it really would she's been a bit of a revelation this season for Arsenal she's been so good at the heart of everything she's that's so good one-on-one against players I never really noticed that in her game before but I think this season when she's one-on-one with a player I just expect her to to beat them now. And that's so, in terms of being able to break lines and break attacks, being able to have someone that can beat a player, that's so critical.

So yeah, I think Caitlin Ford would be a massive, massive boost. I don't know what the timeline is on her being back. Does anyone know? I wasn't expecting her to be out for as long as she has been out, if I'm honest. So I don't know is the answer. Susie? I've had the impression that her return is like fairly imminent but I've had that impression for a few weeks so I mean I'm sort of yeah like hopeful that this eight day break between the games is enough for them to get her back at least onto the bench but I mean who knows because it's an injury we've not really been given a huge amount of info on.

Scheduling-wise, by the way, just a random question. Does anybody know why Chelsea are playing their second leg on Thursday and Arsenal aren't playing until the Monday? I mean, they're supposed to be played on the weekend, right? That's what they're scheduled for. I know there's a couple of journalists who are really irritated because they had kept that weekend free and then booked off around it. And now we're missing the games, whereas I had done the opposite and had sacrificed the games and going to Centre Park on the weekend.

And now it's played into my hands perfectly. So I will be at both games instead of not being at both games as I first thought. But yes, so they got moved because... Because of you, so you can go to Centre Park. Yeah, entirely because of me. is your fault Susie I know right I just need to take all the punches um yeah so it's because um obviously they're scheduled for the weekend but no team knows which whether they're getting their women's team to semi-final or not so they've all got men's games scheduled at the big stadiums they have to be played at the big

stadiums because of VAR and goal line technology and then you've got the issue of men's teams playing the stadiums and yes obviously you can play back to back in the stadiums but UEFA rules mean that you have to have the away team able to train on the pitch the day before so then you're working around the schedule of whatever game's going on in that stadium on that day. So that's meant that Chelsea's has come forward to the Thursday and Arsenal's has shifted to the Monday to accommodate fitting around the pre-existing scheduling of games in the stadiums. Although, you know, then the Arsenal men's game shifted as well. So, but yeah, by that, it had already been done. So they couldn't really change it further.

OK, that clears it up for me for sure. Let's talk Chelsea. Beaten at home by a quite formidable Barcelona. They conceded a really early goal, a sensational strike from just outside the box from Caroline Graham-Hanson in the fourth minute. I think we all feared the worst as soon as that early goal went in. But actually, Chelsea held strong for the next 90 minutes and the game finished 1-0.

And Maia, as our resident Chelsea fan today, when you conceded that goal so early, how did you feel? Did you think it was going to be exactly the same as that 2021 Champions League final where they collapsed? Other than that, how do you feel about the result? Jeez thanks for reminding me the flashbacks and I mean ultimately when it's CGH as well

what an amazing player by the way it's that first Champions League goal this season because of the injuries right I believe

and I remember when she scored the world against Wolfsburg last year in the 75th I was like but yeah when you can see

the goal like that you're thinking the worst but again resilience just brushed it off didn't capitulate this time I was like, ah. But, yeah, when you concede a goal like that, you're thinking the worst. But, again, resilience. Just brushed it off, didn't capitulate this time, and really managed to stay in there for a long time. I mean, the offside goal as well. Very similar pass, by the way.

Well, a lot of passes. You know, break the defence, get in behind. You think if that counts, momentum changes completely. This Guru Raiten's goal. Yes. And I'm glad that they managed to give a good account for themselves and obviously going to spain is a massive massive tall ask but at least you give yourself something to work with because if you go to three nil down at home you're basically out of the tie so there's there's encouragement to take i think emma will be

proud of that performance it would have been great to take something away from it but 1-0 compared to what it has been in recent times is definitely a step in the right direction now can we go and do the impossible potentially we could yeah I believe you and Barcelona were actually held to their lowest xg all season if you use xg as a monitor of anything. But I'm sure Susie, I mean, there's nothing they can do about that offside goal, but they'll be disappointed they didn't take any of their chances.

A hundred percent. I mean, and like you'd bank on Sankar every time to score when she gets into a good position, to be onside when she gets into a good position. So yeah, there'll be frustration that they didn't do more up front when they did get those little opportunities because they do have a player with, like, and Guru Wrighton too, to be fair, with the quality to make something happen when the game is firmly against you.

It's a good result. You know, limiting Barcelona to 1-0 is a good result. But I also, on the other hand, feel like it's slightly played entirely into Barcelona's hands because they walk away from Stamford Bridge with a goal advantage going into the Nou Camp where they don't lose, having not really moved into first gear at all. I felt like it was a very patient performance. They were almost happy to just let Chelsea bank back and try and catch them on the break.

Happy to dominate possession and take their time. We'll maybe be a little bit frustrated that they didn't get more goals given that they dominated. But at the same time, I think they'll be so confident they can do something special at Barcelona. I really think Chelsea needed to take something from this game. I mean, yes, the tie is alive and they're still in the tie, which is what Emma Hayes kept saying, you know,

we just needed to be in the tie. But I do feel like only from taking something from Stamford Bridge would they have properly been in the tie. Yeah, it's almost like that box analogy, right? That you're down by points and now you have to go for the knockout. That's all Chelsea have at this point. So you're right, going across to Europe

to play in that arena, you're basically 1-0 down already. There's no ifs or buts about it. Can you go and give the performance of your lives to make sure that you can have this moment? And ultimately, I know Emma will probably be showing them the tapes a few years ago, showing them that fan and saying, remember what they did to you.

This is your opportunity to really show the world that you deserve to be at this level. And I mean, greatness is only achieved by doing something big, right? So they have the opportunity to really do that now. But I do agree with you. If you could have taken a draw from the bridge, you would have cashed out do agree with you if you could have taken a draw from the bridge you would have cashed out the bank but if you could have taken a one nil as well you would have probably cashed that in yeah I think look the camp

now the camp new the spotify camp new whatever it's called however you pronounce it so as not to offend somebody it's going to be a really big ask, isn't it? I just want to talk about Jess Carter though, Flo, because she had a really good game and it feels as if she's just grown into this Chelsea side and her confidence has improved and she's just really coming into her own at the moment. Yeah, Jess Carter's great. It's been so good to watch her grow.

And I think with the start of this season, she wasn't playing much at all. I remember being really disappointed because I thought she'd come on so much. But obviously injuries, she's back in. And also England, I'm thinking, I'm thinking with the injuries at the back, she could be a great player for England. She's so fast and she's so good one-on-one. So yeah, Jessica's great.

I'm not sure about the Chelsea result, though, it being a good result. I feel like a lot of the narrative around it, surely you've got to get a result at home. Surely that has to be how you're going to win the tie, get a result at home, because they're not going to get anything at the Camp Nou. I also feel a little bit like the trauma of that 4-0 in the final. I think they've focused on that a lot. And they're like, oh, we're trying to stay in the tie.

We're trying to pass it really good. And it's like, why are you here? You're here to compete at the top of women's football because that's the kind of club you are are you here just to lose one nil to Barcelona twice and go out like I don't know maybe I'm being a bit harsh Barcelona are incredible no I actually think I think you're bang right and I do think it's very easy when Emma Hayes immediately comes out and goes spins the positive on it everybody listens to what to what Emma Hayes says because she's Emma Hayes. But I think you're exactly right. There is a bit of spin on that.

I think there is. And I think I just can't see them getting a result. I can't do maybe I'm going to be proven wrong. But I don't know. I just feel like they actually by going into it. So like, oh, you know, we've got smashed 4-0 last time. We just try and stay in the time. It's like, no, you need to try and compete.

That's the level you're at. And I don don't know I just think about the attitude thing between Arsenal and Chelsea and it's like I mean obviously they've also had injury blows right losing your two starting centre-half is massive blow I get that and I do get that but I think maybe the attitude I don't know if that's been helpful for them basically going in with the whole we need to just stay in the tie and let's not get smashed again. I was just a wee bit disappointed by Chelsea, if I'm honest. I agree.

I think they were dictated too much by Barcelona. They catered to Barcelona too much instead of playing their own game and the way they like to play and really going for it. And they, like, yeah, for me, they needed a result at Stamford Bridge so, so badly to keep

there's there's keeping the tie alive and then there's actually being in with a chance of going through and that's the difference right jess carter like i thought was phenomenal um and i asked emma hayes about afterwards because i remember that final where she was just so out of her depth it was incredible i mean all of Barcelona's success in that game came from attacking the wings and yeah she looked so so unbelievably out of her depth and a lot of people myself included were calling for big change and full-back options in the summer saying you know she has to bring in some top quality full-backs They brought in Yves Perisset, who sort of was, you know, is very, very good. I really like as a player. He's got huge potential, but is almost like a similar level of development,

not like the world class. I think that a lot of people were thinking they needed to get in to be able to compete in Europe. And then she was like Jess Carter in the game at the weekend was beyond good. Really, really phenomenal. And Emma Hayes afterwards was like, she thinks that she learnt a lot that night and really reserved quite a lot of praise for it because, yeah, really impressive.

Yeah, well, we'll see how both those teams get on over the next few days. That's it for part one. In part two, we'll chat ACLs and round up the weekend's WSL and championship action. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen.

Welcome back to part two of the Guardian women's football weekly so we touched in part one on acl injuries after england captain leah williamson suffered an anterior cruciate ligament injury which keeps her out of the world cup coming up i mean she's just one of an unfortunately long and growing list of women's footballers who have suffered this injury the third at Arsenal just this season why are these injuries Susie I know you've done a lot of research and articles on this why are they more common in women's football and for female athletes there's a lot of different reasons and I don't think like there's there's one that is clear I think there is like some differences in the biomechanics of women's bodies compared to men's and how all research is done on the basis of men's bodies so then when you're applying everything to the women's game you're basically slotting square pegs into round

holes so you know boots that aren't necessarily designed for women and are just you know smaller men's boots pitch qualities another massive issue there's not enough um like support for the you know kind of strength and conditioning staff not enough experience there not enough um medical experience with understanding on the differences between men and women suffering these injuries um small squad sizes uh the football calendar is inconsistent you know I think there's obviously a lot of people talk about the football calendar and the issues of playing too much football or too little football but for me the bigger issue is the inconsistencies and the sort of very stop-start nature of women's football because we know that players can play lots of games but it's

when they you know have to switch from playing but playing very, very few to a lot that is a bigger problem for me. Inadequate facilities and equipment, I mean, it just goes on. And then the biggest thing for me and the thing I think is most critical is that a lot of people look at it and go, oh, well, the men manage to play three times a week, blah, blah, blah, and they're fine and they don't have as many acls etc but they've been trained from like the age of what like five six seven to play that many games a week like they've been prepped for that from that age like they've been prepped from that age to reach a point where they can play that level of football that many times a week with elite facilities with elite medical staff that talk to them about the best way to move to protect themselves

on the pitch and the women's players that are playing now haven't had that and so for me like it's a generational thing and no matter you always need more research i don't think you know you can ever say you fully understand and know something so more research is important particularly into women players but we'll only see a real shift in it and a real change when we've got kids coming through at such an early age with elite level of facilities and understanding that could actually influence things so I think we're actually you know we're looking 20 30 years down the line because we've not even got that in place now for the kids coming through so for me that's the issue and it's going to take decades to fix and should have been done decades ago.

I just can't see any other way of properly solving it when loading is such a big issue and women's players aren't built to cope with it. Well, again, it screams investment flow. Some of the best players in the world have suffered ACL injuries in the last year. Beth Meave, Viv Miedema, Marie-Antoinette Cototo, Alexia Puteas, you know, just a few. And obviously, the big competitions are poorer without those players in them. So you would expect the likes of FIFA to want to invest, to make sure that their headline-making names

are in their headline-making tournaments? Yeah, 100%. I think everyone's clear on the problem. But, yeah, I think it's just difficult with the solutions. I know, Susie, you've spoken about some of the solutions, and I think you're maybe right about the generational thing. I think that's probably a good point. But I'm just thinking like Arsenal, Barcelona, some of those players you just mentioned come from those clubs. you're maybe right about the generational thing i think that's probably a good point but because

i'm just thinking like arsenal barston you know some of those players you just mentioned come from those clubs they've totally got a lot of this stuff in place so what is it that's going wrong i think clubs need to start implementing and trying you know things and i think i don't know i think maybe loading is a big thing like you know if they've played a certain amount then don't play them you know they can't be played they're. You know, they can't be played. They're in the red zone. They can't be played. Yeah, I find it really hard to talk about, as I said,

just because I think everyone's clear on the problem. We just need to start trying some solutions. Yeah, absolutely. Right, let's move on to the Women's Super League. Lots of goals over the weekend. Let's have a quick recap of all the results. Liverpool came from behind to beat newly invigorated Brighton 2-1. They couldn't follow up Brighton on their 3-2 win over Everton midweek. Fellow relegation rivals Reading also gave up a lead

in their game, going two goals up against Everton but losing 3-2. It was another dramatic battle between Spurs and Villa who shared the points with a three-all draw and finally Manchester City do what Manchester City do best blowing away West Ham by six goals to two some big results in the relegation battle my work after Brighton and Reading lost Leicester have a game in hand they weren't involved this weekend they're a point behind Reading two behind Brighton still at the bottom of the table can they defeat the odds and stay up, in your opinion? I mean, you can always dream, but that goal difference is where it's going to get really sticky. I mean, even if they manage to get a few draws or really claw it back, that goal difference, I think they're probably, how many goals is it? Probably 10.

Well, actually, Brighton have a worse goal difference than Leicester. Okay, so it's going to be, it's where Reading, where it gets interesting. Yeah, Reading are on minus 20, Leicester minus 30, Brighton minus 32. So this is where it gets interesting because they're all in and around it together. But I mean, if it then comes down between them and Reading, it could get tricky for them. But I mean, it's cup finals. It's cup finals.

Every game you have to go in really believing that you can do it. And I think, I know it sounds weird, but I think there's this psychological sort of fight or flight mentality that comes in when you know that the promotion from the championship has been secured.

So, okay, someone's definitely replacing one of us. We have to keep going forward now. So they could do it but yeah wherever the goal is going to come from is the question I still feel as if it's between the bottom four and I know this is just going to sound like a list of fixtures but I think it's quite important to go through what the running is so Leicester themselves they have a game in hand they face Liverpool next week followed by Arsenal away that game in hand is away to Chelsea and then they face West Ham and I mean the last game of the season could be a

potential relegation decider and it's away at Brighton Brighton have Spurs next week which is obviously huge for both of them then West Ham their game in hand is against Arsenal and their final two games are against Everton and that one against Leicester Reading are away at Man City at home to Villa then it's a massive one against Spurs followed by a home game against Chelsea on the last day of the season and Tottenham have Brighton Manchester United Reading and they end their season at West Ham. So actually, West Ham could play a huge part in the relegation battle. They're not out of it themselves, by the way, because they've got to play these other teams.

Although mathematically, you know, they look relatively safe on 17 points with Tottenham in ninth on 13. You know, those fixtures mean they only need to have a few slip-ups and they're sucked right back in. It's so difficult, isn't it, Flo? How do you see it? I think Tottenham will be fine. They've got too much quality. Beth England will score goals for them. They've got too much quality. I think Spurs will be fine. I think Brighton and Hove will be fine. I've been so impressed with Melissa Phillips coming in. I was at that semi-final

against Man United. They went toe-to-toe with them on a result against Everton. I think Brighton will be okay because I think she's really boosted them. I think it's between Reading and Leicester. I can't call it. But I think it's between those two, if I'm honest. What do you think, Susie?

I tend to agree. I think it's between Reading two, if I'm honest. What do you think, Susie? Yeah, I tend to agree. I think it's between Reading and Leicester. And I worry for Reading at this stage. Although, yeah, like I say, Leicester's fixtures are tricky. Yeah, I'm going to say, yeah, one of those two. Oh, come on. Oh, my God. I'm going to say one of those. Yeah, one of those.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. What do you think,aye who's going down Reading I think Reading I would be really sad if Reading went down so would I they've been in it for ages and they've not got like a massive prem club behind them but they are struggling I 100% agree this is not what I want this is what I this is what I think equally when you've got an experienced manager in Kelly Chambers, as we've said repeatedly on this pod, you know, then you can't rule that out. But they have less games in order to do it. Tough games in order to do it.vy, Spurs chairman, whose suggestion that the WSL should be a closed league so clubs can invest with no risk in their women's sides. Bear in mind where Tottenham sit in the table quite precariously at the moment. This obviously, you know, is about the new co and the new structure of the women's's leagues nag has tweeted us to ask if this is a good idea and if so why i know suzy has an opinion on this so i'm just gonna go wind wind

wind wind wind go i yeah it infuriates me um because it's a terrible idea to cut off the head of the women's football pyramid that is a relatively fair system bar there not being enough promotion spots into the championship like just maddening I mean the thing that annoys me the most I think is that I think in women's football there's very much been for a very very long time a broader view beyond individual interests right like you know there's been a recognition that every team needs to be successful for the league to grow and develop and the more successful the league becomes the more you get these like individual interests suddenly start to rear their heads and try and influence things and I think that's a really like dangerous way to go you know i don't think we should have people basically putting their own club interests

ahead of the development of the league and that is inevitably what's going to happen the more money is in the wsl the more teams are going to think selfishly and look to protect those interests and obviously a closed league benefits dan levy because it means that he you know keeps Tottenham in the in the top flight for the foreseeable future without a big increase in investment but a lot of money going into the league and a lot of interest in the league and yeah very ironic coming from a club that bar you know like signing Beth England and things like that has chronically under invested in their team um and under supported their team to be basically trying to close shop so you don't have to invest further is a terrible decision it undermines the integrity of the league it undermines the work that's being done below for by clubs who uh want to come up I mean when you

look below the championship, for example, some of the teams that are battling for that one spot every season, there's numerous clubs that have been working for years to try and move up these tables. And then you're potentially going to close the trap door and kick the ladder away of what is already a very, very difficult hill to climb. It just makes me angry. It makes me so angry from the ladder away of what is already a very, very difficult hill to climb. It just makes me angry. It makes me so angry from the broader point of view

that he has the confidence to come out and say something like that that is undermining the interests of the league and women's football in England. Confidence or arrogance? I mean, there's always a question mark over those desperation words i would i would say and yeah you make a really interesting point but particularly it feels like it's highlighted more this season with the competitiveness of the championship of tier three like you go down to the women's national league it is it's incredible down there. Why on earth would you want to stop that ambition and prevent? Well, I mean, we've talked about preventing competition previously before. It's ludicrous, in my opinion, as well. with that win against West Ham means that they move up to second. They obviously have played two more games than Chelsea and one more than Arsenal. But in terms of Champions League football, they look pretty good.

But what about the title race? You've got to control your controllables, right? They will just hope that they can keep on winning and keep on going. They don't have to focus by anything else. And ultimately, I mean, I've spoken to a few Arsenal fans who quietly think whilst they've been resilient in Europe

it may take away from what they can do in the league especially with the squad that have been tested so for

Man City they have an advantage in this race you just need to keep going to the finish line now but the result on the

weekend Chloe Kelly getting two goals business as usual just keep going now I think they will think that they

can secure Champions League football, which would be great of them for what's happened in the last few seasons as well to really get back in the mix. Yeah, absolutely. Right, we need to talk about Bristol City. Huge congratulations to them.

They're promoted back into the WSL this weekend after beating Charlton 4-0 in front of a club record crowd of 7,045 at Ashton Gate. Susie, we didn't jinx Anita. Anita Asante was on the pod last week and we didn't want to use the P word, or she didn't want to use the P word, but we pretty much did. It's been so tight at the top of the championship this season. What an achievement is it for Bristol to see that out against their promotion rivals of

Birmingham and London City Lionesses in particular. You say we, Faye. I think it was very much you. It was me. I'm so sorry. And I think if I had said the promotion words, they probably wouldn't have got it because my track record, as we've already discussed, is poor. No, it's absolutely phenomenal achievement for Bristol to get back up into WSL.

I mean, you see the celebration photos, like just how incredibly delighted they are to be back. So, so well deserved, like really well run team, well organised, great coaches, like really, really good players, but also really nice players and yeah like I think it is nice to see a team that is investing and playing some nice football come up into the league um it's going to be a huge ask uh for them in the WSL it's going to be really really difficult for them as it was the last time they were in the league but I always think it's good as well to have a you know more teams represented in the top flight that aren't tied to big Premier League sides as well. Because I think that's a cornerstone of women's football in England that needs to be protected to cut through this expectation of it becoming a Premier League mark too. Yeah, I just love the fact that a promotion after having a record crowd is just the right way of going about things. And like you said, this is a team that have worked

really, really hard to have this moment. Abby Harrison, I mean, what a moment from ACL injuries to, you know, getting back in the league. I think she was only one of two players to actually get relegated with the side. And this season, what is it? Eight goals, seven assists. It's just a great way on your 100th appearance

to get back into the Premier League. It's a wonderful moment. I mean, the young players they've got in the squad as well. I think it's Shania Hill who's got eight goals this season as well. They've all really done really well. And it is, of course, going to be a massive, massive, massive task to compete in one of the toughest leagues in the world. But, I mean, bring it on up is what they would be saying.

And actually, I think it's quite important when you think if Reading could go down, for example, what Susie says in terms of having a non-Premier League affiliated club is quite big. And actually, Bristol have announced that they're going to be playing all their games next season at Ashton Gate, which is great to see them commit to that flow. Yeah, definitely. I like Bristol City. I like that they're called the Robins as well. That's cute. But also, yeah, talking about the league

and stuff, two, three up, three down. Imagine, imagine Bristol City, Birmingham City and London City Lionesses going up.

I don't know, it'd be great. Got to expand the league. Got to expand the league. Yeah, because we talk about clubs that aren't associated with big men's team.

London City Lionesses, independent team imagine them in the wsl that would be amazing absolutely uh listen allow me a little bit of indulgence at the end of the pod because we had a lovely email come in by the way you can email us i tell you every single week so don't forget women's football weekly at the guardian.com and so many of you sending in some wonderful emails but this one stood out for me this week hello women's guardian football weekly crew firstly a massive thanks for the brilliant pods you put out i'm a gardener by trade to have a constant stream of women's football podcasts in

my ear whenever i can i think the show is excellent more of the same please thank you sam my partner elizabeth and i have been taking our five-year-old twins, shout out to Isla and Meredith. Hi, Isla and Meredith, to watch Forest Women all season. They did us very proud today, lifting the Women's National League Cup, beating Watford 3-2 after extra time. I'd love to hear the panel's thoughts on the goings-on in the FA Women's National League North and South Premier. Wolves did us at Forest a favour today by beating fellow promotion contenders Burnley. I think that leaves us needing to win on the final day at home to Stoke. It does. If Wolves also win, they'll be level on points, but we've got a massively superior goal difference.

The Southern Prem looks even more tense with Ipswich, Oxford United and Watford all in with a shout. Oxford United having a one point advantage in a game in hand, but having to play both Ipswich and Watford in their remaining fixtures. And he has put that absolutely brilliantly. It's fabulous further down the pyramid, Susie, at the moment. What do you think and how have you been impressed with what's going on down there? I love it because there's big teams investing, like Ipswich, Watford, Oxford, all battling it out at the top of the Southern Premier Division.

And then, like he says, Nottingham Forest and Wolves battling it out at the top of the Southern Premier Division. And then, like he says, Nottingham Forest and Wolves battling it out at the top of the Northern Premier Division as well. Burnley, what, two points behind them too? Massive, massively tight leagues. And again, I'll say it again and again and again, horrific that one of the teams from those two divisions will go up into the championship. For me, that's absolutely mad. And we should be rewarding at least, at very least, like how can they justify to their board and owners

like continued investment year on year on year when they can potentially win the league and not be promoted? And like that's a really difficult position for clubs to be in. You're basically fighting for the chance to be promoted and I just think that's so disappointing I think it's being looked at I think it's it's under review it is but it's it's always under review um I feel like every time the question is asked in like the past three or four years it's been yes that's something we're looking at I desperately hope that finally we might see that

change and you know potentially the new company taking over the women's super league and women's championship might decide that but also you know they're also exploring closed shops too so for the health of the women's football pyramid it has to change it just has to yeah no I totally agree and I think when you think of British football one of the things that it's hero done is this you can dream of being that big club you can go on this journey and the fact that that journey is bottlenecked in such a way is ridiculous and that's why Daniel Levy's comments are just so shocking because that is against the spirit of British football and I think there's a real education piece that needs to be done in all of this in general.

I think if you look at football and the men's game at the moment, one of the things that's constantly been spoke about, whether for better or for worse, is Wrexham and Notts and how two teams have managed to amass 100 points and only one of them goes through automatically. Well, if that is shocking to you,

look at the situation we've got here where you can win your league and still not go up it's absurd and and something needs to be done sooner rather than later because as you said what some people will probably think why would i invest in something if we can achieve greatness and still not get rewarded for it it needs to be reviewed like asap yeah agreed that's a good place to end on actually maya i've been wanting to ask you the entire pod you have a happy birthday banner and a balloon above your head is it your birthday did I miss that right at the top no it was my my second son's um birthday he turned one and we have actually taken decorations down oh bless him wonderful um my 18 month old is chasing a balloon

that he's had for the last four days around the house constantly, and I am just waiting. So yours is good on the wall because I'm just waiting for it to pop and terrify him for life, scar him completely. Lovely to see you as always, Mo. I'll see you soon. Thank you. Flo, always a pleasure.

Thank you. Expand the league three up, three down. Absolutely. Susie, have fun at both champions league second legs and center parks i know right what a weekend absolutely it is um right we'll be back next week to discuss the women's champions league second legs and wsl action and a reminder you can now email us on women's football weekly at theguardian.com please send those through shout out to Isla and Meredith the Guardian Women's Football Weekly this week is produced by Lucy Oliver and Becky Taylor Gill

music composition was by Laura Iredale our executive producer is Sal Ahmad this is The Guardian. is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen.