The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Jess Fishlock is a Welsh legend and is the women’s game for sale? – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack and Sophie Downey to discuss a week of big-name retirements, England’s return to action, and the financial future of the women’s game with football finance expert Kieran Maguire

This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faker-Rothers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, where we knew the day would have to come eventually, and Wales legend Jess Fishlock has finally hung up her international boots. It has become a bit of a theme this week, actually, a number of household names credited with growing the game have also announced their retirements. We'll look at the legacies they leave behind.

The lionesses are back in action this week in their homecoming series, but where will Serena Vigman play Mayor Letticee? And this week we have a football finance special where we'll be joined by expert Kira Maguire and asking him how and why so many clubs are selling off their women's sides. We'll discuss all that, plus we'll take your questions, and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. What a panel we have today. It's like a superstar panel. All the S's. Susie Rack, how are you?

I am good. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. I do actually get to see you in person tomorrow, which is very exciting. We'll talk more about that later. Sophie Downey, you've had a right day of it. Are you able to tell us what you've been up to? I've been running all around London, walking dogs. We're managers doing different things. Yeah, all very exciting. but meant I got in the house about 8 o'clock in the evening. So it's been a bit hectic. Ah, this is one of those manic Monday pods that we do in the evening that could go anyway, anywhere.

See, I can't even speak right at the top of it. We do have another guest with us. It is football finance experts. And actually, my lecturer at the University of Liverpool Management School, the superstar that is Kieran Maguire, and we'll be speaking to him in part two. about some very pertinent and interesting football finance questions that we all have. But we're going to kick off because the first international break following the Euros is on the horizon.

And we've seen a series of high-profile retirements as a result. So on Wednesday, Welsh legend Jess Fishlock announced that she's going to be retiring from international football after their friendly against Australia on Saturday. At 38, she's Wales's all-time record appearance holder, all-time top goal scorer, and was of course a core part of the squad that made history at the European Championship this summer scoring their first ever goal in a major tournament.

This is what she had to say from kicking my first ball with my brothers in Hlanhromni. I don't know if I've pronounced that right, Jess. I'm so sorry if I have not. Football has been in my blood. When I had my debut against Switzerland in Clotin in 2006, never did I imagine I'd have the honour of representing my Khmeru more than 150 times.

Every minute was a pleasure, a privilege, and an honour. The Euros was the pinnacle of my football career. Seeing the dragon on the world stage for the first time will be a memory that will stay with me for a lifetime. I mean, what a career, Susie. We've spoken about her a lot on the pod previously. Such a legacy, not just on the pitch, but off it as well.

How do you even briefly sum up her career and how on earth does Rianne Wilkinson start to build without her? Two impossible tasks. I mean, sum up her career. just phenomenal. I mean, I don't think anyone was like anything but overjoyed to see Jess Fishlock feature a major tournament for Wales after the kind of career she's had and the legacy she leaves for the national team in particular, but also like just the way she's represented Welsh women's football generally. There was just her scoring that goal, their first goal at major tournament as well,

the oldest player to score in a tournament or in the Euro's just like such a fitting end to an incredibly stellar career like you say off the pitch such a brilliant advocate for the women's game for equality

for you name it but like I think one of the things that I think is most beautiful is just passion for Wales and her passion for Welsh women's football and I think that's measurable I think the impact that she's had on the domestic and international game in Wales is just huge.

I can't imagine Wales out. And it's an impossible task replacing it. You can't replace her. So essentially you need like five players to step up and fill the shoes that she is stepping out of because she's that influential. And yeah, it's emotional to see her go. And also makes you feel old.

Yeah, most importantly, it makes us. feel old, without a doubt, also making us feel a little bit old. USA International Kristen Press announcing her retirement from football, not just international football, two-time World Cup winner, 36 years old, 16-year career at the very top of the sport. And earlier on this month, her Angel City teammate, Ali Riley, also announced that she was going to bow out at the end of this NWSL season after a glittering career. She was New Zealand captain, you'll remember, in the World Cup, Centurion, return to football for the first time in 463 days this weekend after battling a chronic nerve injury in her leg. And they're not the only ones, the Netherlands

Sharida Spitzer as well, hanging up her international boots at the end of this window. She's 35, 247 appearances for her country, currently the most capped European player as well, played a crucial role in the Netherlands' historic Euro 2017 win, capped in the side to the 2019 World Cup final as well. A week of goodbyes to some legends. So loads of these players given so much to the game, again, like Jess Fishlock off the pitch as well as on it. How much are they going to be missed?

Usually, I think Susie stole my line there because I was like, it makes me feel very old. I've watched these players since I was young and pretty much all the way through their career. So you go through the cycles and football that make you feel a bit sad when it's all over because you've had a number this week. You can add to that, like, maybe lower profile, but Megan Campbell of Republic of Ireland, has also hung up her boots. You know, these players have given so much

to their different countries over the years and to the game of football. And I think in, say, the example of Kristen Press as well, the stuff that she's done outside of football in terms of trying to increase the equity and pushing women's sport forward massively, not just in terms of what she's done on the pitch, but in terms of what she's doing with, like,

Tobin Heath with their podcast off the pitch and stuff like that, bringing awareness to issues that we didn't know about before and I think that's super important. I'm also a bit sad like Kristen Press and Ali Riley as well. You feel that they maybe had a couple of years extra in them. It's been injuries for them

that has really kind of stopped their chances. They've both been out for a very long time and I think that that's the sad side of it when you don't really always get to choose your goodbye. You would like that in football. I know it doesn't happen in football very much but when you think about, say, Millie Bright, international retirement. She got to choose her goodbye. So I just wish for two legends

again, they'd been able to do that. But unfortunately not, that is football and they leave a legacy in their wake. Yeah, sometimes I feel though, if you've got a little bit of unfinished business because you've had your career cut short because of injury, that actually that spurs you on a little bit to maybe go into coaching as opposed to going, do you know what, I'm absolutely shattered. I need to just, you know, stop. You know, maybe. they've got a bit of momentum to try and spin a positive that they're not going to completely leave the women's game, hopefully. I just had a wonderful chat with Natalie Arroyo, the Ashton Villa manager, for an article that will be out in a couple of weeks time before the, you know,

just ahead of the WSL season restarting after the international break. And she retired at 22 due to injury and look at her now. She was a journalist. Now she's a manager. Sneak preview of my wonderful, wonderful interview with her. She's brilliant person to chat to. That is a thing I think where people think they've got unfinished business in kind of being on the pitch and part of that side of the game for sure. Yeah, I see it without a doubt. I'm looking forward to reading that. Right, the lioness is a back. So England returned to the pitch this fortnight. Two friendlies against Brazil and Australia as part of their homecoming series. It is the first time since winning the Euros back in July that we're going to see them in action, Susie. What are you

expecting and hoping from the two games in terms of, I can't believe I'm saying this. I've got a 2026 World Cup to deal with first. I can't quite cope with looking ahead to Brazil in 2027. But how is the prep going to start? What did you make of the squad announcement that we teased last week? Yeah, I feel very relaxed about the whole thing because it's friendlies, right? We've been craving a bit of a break from constant competitive matches to actually see what players can do, experiment.

Like, I want to see variation. Like, I don't think that will happen all the time. Not necessarily against Brazil and Australia, maybe, but in the other two fixtures in this, what have they called it, Homecoming Series. Yeah, like, I think we may well see a fair bit of experimentation. There's so much to think about in terms of kind of who is playing fallback positions and what the future of those roles look like

because we are light in those areas. And I'm excited to see. sort of what kind of solutions they're developing. I also think it's really interesting because we're going into this without Aryan as part of the coaching setup, without Anya as the general manager. Like this is a new look coaching team around the squad.

Serena's working with different people. So I'm like curious to see where their influence filters in and like what that looks like. We know that Aryan was a real tactical mastermind. Like who is bringing that to the party now? I'm just so relaxed about this next couple of months of England's games and I think it's an opportunity to really enjoy it. That's a really nice way of looking at it.

Don't get complacent though. That's what the players have been told. But so what, right? Like, it's just friendlies. Like, it doesn't matter. As long as they're all fine for the World Cup qualifiers, we're good. Oh, you know what it's like though, especially when we played Australia before and, you know, the finalistma was great fun.

new faces in the squad though Sof and I know you love to see new faces and we thought that there might be Taylor Hines and Lucia Kendall both receiving their first senior call-ups Laura Blinkilde-Brown and Missy Bo Ken's returning Katie Reid was initially called up sad for her had to withdraw

so Grace Fisk has come in as her replacement and Grace Clinton has since had to pull out with injury as well how do you see it all playing out good chance for a fresh start and for these players to really get an opportunity to shine at this level because I think, you know, Katie Reid, for example, I'm really devastated for her in terms of she's had a really, really good start to

the season. She's been a standout for Arsenal in that, in that back line. And she was just kind of primed for this opportunity right now. And they will definitely come again. Don't get me wrong. Like, she will have her opportunities down the line. But it's just sad that it was cut short by that injury. I think I'm so excited to see Lucy Kendall. I think she's a brilliant. young talent. People don't know much about her, I think, because she played at South Hampton for so long, so she hasn't been at front and centre of people's eyes. But now that she's at Villa, she's starting to get the kind of the game time at the top level, get the visibility. So I think that's key. And Serena, there is, you know, I think she has a real opportunity here. The pressure is

off, no matter what people say. I know people want England to win football games, but the pressure in these next four months is definitely off. And she comes into this with, you know, a double European trophy on her back. She has that kind of kudos to stick with her and kind of support her through whatever happens next. England traditionally aren't very good in fronties. They've never have been. We have to remember that too.

It's not really where they shine. It's in tournaments that they shine. So we have to kind of take this with what it is in a real experimentation time, I think. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So nobody immediately saying Sacks Serena Week after the fortnight, as if that would happen. So much focus on Mayor Letitiae this week, actually, after another standout start to the season.

And Vigman was asked about her defender on BBC Radio 5 Live, and this is what she had to say about it. Of course, we see every single game at Manchester United. It's incredible how consistent she is, also in availability. I still see her as a right back for us, but I know she can play as a centre back. to, so do the rest of us, Serena, because of course it kicked off an ongoing discussion about Leticia's role in the England team, with even the Manchester United Social Media

team weighing in, which by the way I do not agree with, they posted Mayor Leticia has started 104 games for United, 103 of them have been at centreback. I mean, I've already put out what my stance is there, Susie. What did you make of it? Well, I thought that was like particularly distasteful. I don't think it's okay for a club admin. to be taking a pop at the England manager who's just won back-to-back European tournaments. I mean, who are you, right? Like, I'm not being funny, but that's just not okay.

And, like, odd behaviour. I don't mind a bit of banter from fans. Like, I think that's fine. But, like, come on, it's official club admin. Do better. I just think the whole discussion is a bit weird because, like, I mean, maybe Serena didn't word it in the best way.

She's Dutch. She doesn't always word things perfectly. But, like, they view her as a right-back because they are short in that area, right? And she has played that area through the youth levels for England and at clubs previously. They know she can play there.

They know she can play there well. She is probably one of the best centreback options they have available, but they have far more centreback options available than they do right back options. So the idea that you wouldn't sort of experiment with that, particularly, I would say, in this timeframe, is a really good time to do it if they decide to go that route.

Then why not, right? Like, if I'm Mayor Lettisier, I'm looking at thinking, how likely am I to get in ahead of Leah Williamson and Alex Greenwood when they're fully fit, or a number of the ones behind that who could slot into that role, who she is probably better at, but potentially, you know, not as significant a role as the one she'd play her right back when they're rob. We are so short of options for Lucy Bronze when she's not there. So I just, I'm really, again, I'm so relaxed about experimentation. I don't get the hystericalness like now is the time to try things if it works it works if it doesn't it

doesn't like I'm just I'm not particularly bothered like we should be able to fail failure helps us learn and that's in like every area of like society the world life and I'm just I'm feeling philosophical let's say about all of this and I found I found the like hysteria over this the hysteria over the squad generally just all a little bit absurd right I've got two things to say, firstly, Catherine Tate, I'm a bothered. I'm a bothered, though. Secondly, you know earlier on we were talking off-mic about speeding up the pod to 1.5? I felt like that rant, you sped yourself up to 1.5. It was so adamant on it. I loved it. It was brilliant. Just finally so. Brazil, first of all, I mentioned the finalissimo. We were all there. It was fun, I think it's

fair to say. First time the two have met since then. That was in 2023. Where on earth does the time go? It's terrifying. What are you expecting from the two sides in this one? I'm hoping for fun once again, I think two very, very quality size, high quality size. Obviously, Brazil coming into this on the back of the Copper America win, their ninth title, which is huge for them. And they've got a really, really good squad, lots of quality. And I'm excited to be able to see the match up. I think that's the other point about these friendlies, right? They're playing

four different opposition from all over the world, and that's really, really valuable, because normally we only get to play European opposition. When you think about what you're preparing for a World Cup and how surprised people were at the 2023 World Cup by teams that they'd never played before, by teams from Africa, Asia, you know, across the continent that they'd never come up against, and the different styles of football that they play, this is only going to serve as perfect preparation. So Brazil is the perfect start for that. It's also they're going to meet in the finalisterman next year, if I'm not wrong, as well. So this is kind of a prelude to that. A bit strange maybe. But yeah, it's going to be exciting, I think. And, you know, England,

Brazil is always worth watching. I just want a trophy every time they meet. That would be more fun, wouldn't it? Why can't we do that? Can we just have trophies all round? I like a trophy. Yes. Let's get a trophy every pod. Right, I'm going to create some. Maybe we should start giving out pod trophies. let's do that. Well, do you know what? I've got quite a lot of pod emails to go through at the end of the pod. So maybe we will start having that. It feels very old school radio. Let's do a listener of the week. Semifinals of the Nations League also kick off this week. Germany and France will meet for the first time since the Euro's quarter final. Spain hosts Sweden. Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland are also involved in promotion and relegation playoffs against Iceland and Belgium, respectively. Should they win over the two legs, they're going to gain league. A status for the upcoming World Cup qualifiers, which will be very interesting. Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we'll chat to Kira Maguire to learn a little bit more about why clubs are selling off their women's sides to themselves.

Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Week. now you probably will have seen in the news over the last year the current trend of clubs selling their women's team to their parent companies. You'll remember the first instance came earlier this year when Chelsea announced the 198.97 million pound sale of Chelsea women to their parent company, Blue Co. Aston Villa and Everton since followed suit.

It's all a little bit confusing for those of us without a football finance brain, and we wanted to find out a bit more about these deals, what they mean, how they're happening. So why not invite onto the pod only the world's best football finance expert, in my opinion. Also, friend of mine and my lecturer at university, so not biased at all, Kieran, you're actually not very good at this at all. We just wanted to kind of throw random questions at you and see how you got on. Kira McQuire is, though, the go-to expert for all things football finance, the author of the author of price of football and the wonderful podcast as well. If you ever fancy straying from the Guardian

Women's Football Weekly and listening to the Price of Football, please do. It's wonderful. Heer and how are you? I'm very good. I'm just back from Tranmere. And not many people can say that late on a Monday evening. Though most definitely, I think we've been passing ships because I was in Liverpool earlier on today at university. What is going through with all these deals? Explain them a little bit more to us? Because what does a club selling its women's team to their parent company actually mean? Because as women's football fans, we immediately jump on it thinking, well, you don't take it seriously straight away. But what's the actual reason? I think it is very disrespectful to the women's game, the way that certain football clubs are treating the women's

teams as financial instruments rather than football clubs in their own right. But there are financial cost control rules that operate within the men's game. And those are currently referred to as profitability and sustainability rules. And the reason for this is that they encourage neither profitability nor sustainability-based decisions as far as the men's game is concerned. But historically, what has happened is that the women's team set up as a different legal entity, as a company, has been owned by the men's team. Now, what Chelsea realized a few months ago was that, A, that they were in significant danger of failing the cost control rules, and that meant that Chelsea's men's team would have suffered quite a significant points deduction. So they decided to transfer the ownership of the women's team away from Chelsea FC PLC, which is the men's team, which goes into the PSR calculations, into this company called Blue Coat,

which just so happened to also own Chelsea Football Club. As a result of that, the sale price was at £200 million. And as you pointed out of that, £200 million, £1198.7 of that was profit. because Chelsea had only valued the club initially at 1.3 million pounds. That meant that Chelsea effectively got a free pass as far as their men's teams, PSR, rules were concerned. The executives of the Premier League clubs then had an opportunity to stop that particular loophole. And they voted against that because they thought, oh, this is actually quite a good. could get out a jail free card. And what we've seen since then is that Aston Villa have sold

their women's team, I believe for around about 55 million pounds. And it looks like Everton have done the same, I think probably in the region of 45 to 50 million. And because the clubs didn't cost a lot to set up, the women's clubs, it means that if you sell it for 50, you've not spent a lot of money setting it up. So therefore, you end up with these huge profits. You're not allowed to do that under UEFA rules, which means that Chelsea and Aston Villa's men's team, both of whom are competing in the UEFA Champions League and Europa League, respectively, have been subject to sanctions from UEFA,

but they haven't had a point deduction. They would have had significant points deduction had the Premier League had the same set of rules. I mean, it's a weird method of financial manipulation, but what are the pros and cons to this? Are there some pros? I can only see pretty short-term ones. Yes, it's digging.

The pro is that from the men's team's perspective, it digs them out of a hole. It means that they avoid a points deduction. It means that they can still spend as much money as they want in the transfer market without having the normal issues that surround a club, which is in some form of financial,

constraint which it is restricting investment. So it's very much driven for the convenience of the men's team. As far as the women's team themselves is a concern, it has no impact upon them whatsoever because the cost controls that operate within the WSL are a wage cap which is limited to the amount of revenue the women's teams generates. It just seems very, very strange. When Chelsea's men's team was sold effectively by the government to Todd Bowley and Clear Lake Capital. It worked out as for every one pound's worth of revenue that Chelsea generate, the new owners paid five pounds. When we saw the same with Manchester United and Jim Ratcliffe making his investment in Manchester United, it was seven pounds of price paid for every one pound the

club was generating. We take a look at Chelsea's women's team. It's around about 20. And as somebody that works valuing businesses, that's a huge outlier. I sometimes get involved with advising investors on trying to buy football clubs, to which my normal piece of advice is don't do it. But when we agreed that they've got more money than cents, we normally work out some sort of relationship. This is the amount of money the club generating. I don't think you should pay more than normally, you know, three, five, seven pounds for every one pound of revenue. So the Chelsea position is around about 20. I suspect the same is true when we take a look at the figures for Bill and Everton. So you wouldn't, even if you're valuing some of

the crazy companies that we see on sort of AI and tech, and so their value look far lower than this. I think the one possible positive we can take from this is that if it was a genuine investment, you would say, well, that must mean that the new owners are very confident that these football clubs, these women's clubs, are going to generate a lot more revenue in future years. And of course, we all want that. But we've not seen that same level of growth. I've got a spreadsheet in front of me as well as talking to you folks. And the revenue growth in the WSL last season was fantastic. Manchester United was up by a third, Liverpool up by a third,

Arsenal nearly 40%, Bristol City up 58%, spurs up 50%. So there is certainly a lot of growth of presence, but I think that growth was largely driven by the new TV deal. And when you go into the second year, of a TV deal, it's likely to slow down. I just want to go back to valuations because I remember talking to you about this before and it's always been very difficult to value a women's team when they're amalgamated into the men's structure.

And I'm looking at the NWSL at the moment as an example. Lots of their clubs have caught the headlines, Angel City when it was sold, for example, for $250 million. dollars is a perfect one. But they exist in a different ecosystem, don't they? I don't quite understand how you're able to, are they just plucking figures out of the sky to fit the model that they're trying to squeeze into? How does it work?

Yeah, I think the NW has said is slightly different because you tend to get bigger crowds and the clubs are independent entities. They have been set up as women's clubs who are able to do their own rights, to do grand sponsorship deals. And they are generating far more interest as separate entities. I think it is a challenge working out the numbers. Chelsea, however, would say that they have sold subsequent to their own deal. They've sold 10% of the club to an American investor for 20 million. So if they sold 10% for 20 million, it justifies the 200 million. There's no doubting that Chelsea's women's football team is absolutely brilliant football team. But Newcastle's men's team was sold

for 300 million pounds for it. It's in the Premier League. It's got the benefit of the Premier League TV deal. It's getting 50,000 people turning up each week. If Newcastle men's team is worth 300 million, it seems a bit strange that Chelsea's women's team is worth two-thirds of that. Valuing a football team is a bit like valuing a piece of art because they are all unique and they've all got unique asset set. So, you know, how? do I value something by Tracy M. or Banksy or Damien Hurst. It ultimately comes down in the eye of the beholder and the willingness of a prospective investor to put the money in. I was going to say who's willing to pay what, but if you're buying it yourself and how much it doesn't really

make sense. Sorry, Susie. So I was going to ask about the long-time finances of some of the men's teams because, you know, this is a short-term fix, right? Like, they can do it once and then it's done. Is it worth it? Is it worth that split away and the disrespect that they're showing to their women's team for something they can only do once that their next year, they're essentially going to have the same problem, right? Yes, you're absolutely right. Short-term self-interest is what drives football decision-makers. And we know that it's an industry whereby, if you lose three games in eight days, it's a crisis which can cost a manager a job. So that applies to boardroom decisions as well. And what we've also seen from Chelsea is that they sold two car

parks to themselves and made 70 million pounds. They sold a hotel to themselves. And you're absolutely right. Eventually, we will run out of things to sell, but we've not run out just yet. It's a lot of loopholes. I found it really interesting, and I won't say who, but I've spoken to an owner of a football club recently who has talked about potentially separating out the women's team. The argument is that actually they're saying it's a sign of commitment to the women's team

because it would make them more financially independent. I mean, do you agree with that, or is that some interesting, comms tweaking going on? Just because you make them independent as a legal entity, it doesn't mean that they're independent as a functioning organisation. So I don't really hold a lot of hope in that. It seems strange.

Chelsea lose 150 grand a week, the women's team. So why pay 200 million pounds for a company which is losing 150 grand a week? I can't see any business sense in that decision. Since, you know, when we talk about Chelsea, since separating from the men's financial structure, we've seen them sign like separate brand and sponsorship deals for the women's team, and then we already mentioned that Alexis O'Hannihani Ann bought a stake in the club. Could they have happened, regardless of whether this financial separation had happened, would they be able to have done those kind of deals with the club combined?

Absolutely, because all what's happened is that the ownership of Chelsea, Women Limited has transferred from one party. And Chelsea Women Limited could still have sold 10% of their own shares to an individual investor. And he's perfectly entitled. Yeah, the logical thing I think for women's team is to go for a different sponsorship deal because you're targeting a different demographic. You've got a different audience as far as the broadcasters are concerned. The logic of having one sponsorship deal, which covers both the men in the women's team, is always something which has sort of left me scratching my head. And we are starting to see that separation.

And that is a classic strategy for anybody that's involved in marketing. Marketing, you look at who you're selling to and you operate accordingly. Well, I mean, yeah, we operate in football. And hopefully we have kept people's interest for this part of the pod because it is really important. But it equally is dry and difficult. and hard to understand, actually, if you're not an expert on finance, which is why I want to finish, Kieran, with kind of asking you, why listeners to this pod, why women's football fans,

why should they care about this? Why is it important for the future of the game? Because you said the key words there, Faye. It's the future of the game. And we want a women's game, which is going to continue to grow. We want a women's game, which is seen to have integrity as well. And I think this damages the integrity. And it's not coming from the women's game.

It's coming from the men's side of the overall organisation. We're seeing some of the things which I've always been concerned with the men's game. The idealist in me doesn't want them to be repeated in the women's game. And that leads to situations whereby clubs are not sustainable, as normal businesses, and therefore you are reliant upon the club being treated as a trophy asset. And football clubs don't go bust, but owners go bust or owners get bored. I want a WSL, which is competitive, not just having four teams at the top and a bunch of makeweights, because we've already got that in the men's game. So, you know, why, again, why follow the

mistakes which have been made elsewhere. Yeah, absolutely. It's been fascinating. Kieran, thank you so much for joining us and explaining it all. Hopefully, well, I'd love to say we won't need to get you back on again, but I've got a feeling that this is a story that's going to continue and we are going to need you to dissect it for us a little bit more. But thank you so much. If you never have to hear from me again, that's really good news. Then football is fixed, which would be something. Brilliant. Take care. I'll see you in a lecture. theater near you soon. Thank you. Oh, brilliant. I tell you what, I have to say, Susie, I always feel really stupid whenever I talk to Kieran. I'm educated every single time, but I still

feel very, very silly. Listen, I've got a load, and I'm going to apologise to everybody listening because I finally went through my Guardian Women's Football Weekly folder the other day and found a load of emails that I hadn't seen that I should have been putting into the pod over the last couple of weeks. So I apologise if any of them are a little bit late, but we're going to tackle some of them now on International Week before the football gets going again. Hello, Fé and team. I'm listening from New Zealand and love the pod. One thing about being in New Zealand is that I have to watch the WSL delayed and on YouTube. The coverage is fantastic, except for that. The commentators insist on talking about the other games that are on.

And they even have a graphical score for other games presented as well, which basically ruins all the other games for me to watch as there's obviously no suspense. So please can I make a plea? If anyone is listening, please refrain from talking about the other games. It's not like it's the latter stages of the WSL when it's super critical. Basically

it just ruins the TV watching experience. Love the pod and love the increased interest in the women's game. Thanks very much, Anna. It's a very good point. I feel like it's a little bit like saying no spoilers for Game of Thrones

like five, ten years after it's finished, you know, like a little bit like that vibe. I get the like sentiment, but, you know, there's only so much you can do if you're like, people are watching things on catch up. I think the more interesting point or serious point is the fact that the scheduling is, for want of a better word, bonkers this season. All over the place. It's all over the place. And, you know, you go from a weekend where you have a Friday, Saturday, a Sunday fixture to a Sunday

on an international men's weekend where you have all of the games on a Sunday, four of them at the same time. I mean, I don't understand the common sense in that at all. I don't think there is any. If you're wanting to get more eyes onto the game and, you know, grow the fan base,

you need to be able to stretch out the scheduling and for the fact that, you know, I think building a story over the weekend of action of football and being able to build that in, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Sunday evening, even as it would be, I think that's really important and we're missing that so much this season.

Massively, you get done at 12 o'clock on a Sunday, you've finished it too, and then there's nothing. And it's just so frustrating. Well, think where it is and what they want people to watch. We discussed it the other week, didn't we? And actually, I'll tell you what, it's very difficult, Anna, going through life and not having a spoiler. I've had traitors' spoilers this week

because I've looked up and seen someone on this morning being interviewed when I'd recorded it. If you're not watching the UK traitors in New Zealand, by the way, Anna, please do. It's very good. The Celebrity Edition is fabulous. But also, I find it really annoying when I have to pause the game, usually because Ted has interrupted me for something that he wants a snack or whatever. So I've put the game on pause. And then, of course, my Sky Sports app flashes up that somebody scored a goal.

Find that really annoying. Or there's a delay or whatever. Anyway, I think in this world, and my last point on this, and I'm so sorry for going off on one. But when I used to read the sports news, we used to get requests in from people, please stop reading out the Formula One result. I'm recording the race later. So you literally have to say, and for those of you who don't want to know the Formula One result, turn away now or turn off now. My goodness me. Anyway, right, this is from Michael Lamb. Sarah Essum's column on Tuesday highlighted some really important issues

facing female football players not lucky enough to belong to a professional team. It suggests that many really talented players are unable to apply their trade because the economics don't yet allow it. I'm fortunate to have season tickets to AWFC and have several other first-rate teams accessible whenever I want, but I worry about the pipeline and the future of the game

if teams in lower leagues can't afford to even house their players. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how some of the fruits of success at the top can be made to trickle down to improve the prospects of female football players more broadly, Michael Lamb. Brilliant, brilliant email, Michael. Big problem. The gap is getting bigger. Like, it's ingrained into the way things are done. You know, you look at the broadcast rights deal for the WSL, 70, and WSL too, 75% of that money goes to the WSL, 25% of the championship, right? Like, that's inbuilt, gap growing year on year. Like, and, you know, there's very little you can do about it. It's a very hard thing to go overcome.

they're already enriched, like, and then obviously, you know, you've got below that even less enriched. So this gap is getting big. I would flip everything on its head and overfund the bottom to a greater extent than the top. Like, that would be the way that I would do it. You close a gap rather than growing it indefinitely. But that's, I don't think, on the agenda anytime soon from the, from the tops of the WSL. I think the problem as well is you're looking at relatively low investment across the board, even at the very top of the game. So how you use those, you know, even at the, you know, Chelsea level, where they're only spending a few million. I mean, that sounds like a lot to the average person.

But actually in the grand scheme of football, they're not dealing with very much money whatsoever. And then you're looking to fund a whole pyramid. I think it's really, really hard. I probably should have put the two broadcaster ranting emails together. but light and shade and all that. This was titled Desperate Canadian UWCL fan. Hello, Faye et al. I'm a big fan of the show.

Women's Football Weekly always skips to the front of my podcast queue as soon as it drops. We love you forever, Alexandra Began, despite you being a desperate Canadian UWCL fan. I'm writing out of sheer desperation. Amid all the excitement about the new Disney Plus broadcasting deal, it seems that the UWCL has completely forgotten Canada. There's currently no way to legally.

watch here and I'm absolutely devastated. I've tried reaching out to UEFA through social media but haven't had any luck. Canada isn't even mentioned on the UWCL Where to Watch page. I've loved hearing your discussions about growing the women's game. The recent broadcast partnerships with Netflix for the World Cup and Disney Plus for the UWCL are fantastic steps forward but access gaps in many regions including Canada remain a huge issue. My experiences with local broadcasters have been consistently frustrating. I'm a huge fan so I'll push through the nonsense of. For instance, TSN using the men's 2024 euros as the landing page for the women's tournament this year, wow. But for someone who's just starting to take an interest, that kind

of thing could be a real turnoff. How can the women's game continue to grow if accessibility in international markets is so limited? Thank you for the wonderful pod and for keeping me hooked enough to get up at 6.30am to watch WSL matches. That is commitment, Alexandra. Thank you very much for your message. We have power. That is an odd omission. Surely they should at least have free to air access if it's not, if they've not got a broadcast deal,

that for me seems like an oversight of quite a big country with a growing women's football fan base. Soap will probably go on a rant on this because she is a huge, huge Canada fan. Yeah, give Canada what they deserve. I'm actually going back in a couple of weeks to Toronto for the NSL final but yes I think it's a big problem in women's football and it's surprising because when you look elsewhere as well

you know when you look at the other sports or other leagues like the WNBA they have their own platform where for the non-broadcast deals in the USA so for those external to those you can log onto the WNBA app and watch every single game of your team it like massively increases the access to people And when you have something like YouTube around, which you can geo-block or you can un-geoblock, why not use that where you can where you don't have a broadcast deal in place?

If that's coming in the future, it's coming in the future, but don't limit the access at this growth point where, you know, everything is starting to explode in terms of interest. I think it's very short-sided. I think people think, oh, well, it's just European football, so no one else is interested. No, you talk to Americans, you talk to Canadians, you talk to Australians, they all want to watch these football games. They're all interested in Europe and football. They're all interested in the WSL and across Europe and just give them the chance to really grow that fan base and that audience internationally.

It's really, really important. And, yeah, it won't be able to get anywhere near its target or its possibilities if it doesn't have that audience. Yeah, absolutely missing a trick. That's a watch this space, Alexandra. Susie will work her magic and find out a little bit more for you for sure. going to end on an email from Jim which was titled

Channel Your Inner Serena Hello All with the imminent arrival of Football Manager 26 How exciting is it that the women's game is going to be included for the first time The last version of the game was played by over 19 million people which could get a lot more eyeballs on the WSL NWSL et al in real life

It's also been announced that international football will be reintroduced which could give players the opportunity to guide the lionesses to World Cup glory and who wouldn't want that? Susie Rack, channel your inner serena. It's great. I've written a piece on it before

on the integration of women's football into like a general football fan culture with this, with FIFA, as in EAFC, with Panini stickers and trading cards and tops cards and all that, like literally everything, right? And just like the kind of culture, culture and that kind of stuff too. Like I think that all is important. important because like that subculture is how you build community among fans and like keep them

engage sort of beyond just you know showing up at a game and stuff too and like wanting to kind of like live it day to day it sucks you in um i think it's hugely important i think it's brilliant that this has come i'm excited to have a go at playing it given my fantasy football ability like i have low expectations for how any team will do with me at its hill in football manager but you know as I said earlier you only have success through failure so you know I'll lose for like five seasons in a row and then I might win yeah we did actually have a message about fantasy football funnily enough and we just haven't talked about it at all mainly because I've just gone I can't do it because my brain can't cope with it but we really should

do a fantasy pod this was from Raphael Iberg who got in touch with us quite a bit over the euros, if you remember. And it's so out of date. And I'm so sorry, Raphael, because it's from the 5th of October, which is really terrible. First of all, dear Guardian Women's Football Weekly staff, first of all, as always, thanks for your podcast. I'm sometimes a couple of days late, not quite as late as me reading out your email, Raphael, but I've been religiously listening every week. And I wanted to mention fantasy football and ask if my team, John Jack Russo FC, get it, was the worst team in the history of the fantasy WSL? Or if you guys were experiencing similar issues, especially when all your players play each other in a huge game week like this

weekend. Anyway, I've just built my Women's Champions League team. Here's to hoping John Jack Russo FC will be more enlightened abroad than at home. And then he goes on to talk about Imam Benet scoring over that weekend and the Swiss players doing brilliantly. But anyway, how are you getting on in fantasy football, both of you? I've not looked at it for about two weeks, possibly longer. My son's obsessed, tells me that I'm doing terribly, I need to make changes. My problem with fantasy football is I'm too loyal, so I have to have the maximum number of Arsenal players in, and that screws me every single time.

This season, well, yeah, less so on the men's, but even, you know, not as many goals as I would like for my fantasy football team. But yeah, so I'm always self-handicapping to a large extent and losing to my family and everyone else in the world. Well, John Jack Russo SC is definitely better than my team, which is non-existent. I'm actually the worst person to ask for all of these things because I'm not a gamer or fantasy footballer. I just don't have the patience all the time. But I do understand how educational it is. And I think that's a really important part of the piece as well.

It's like we want to develop knowledge of women's football as not just the people that you watch week in and week out. It's across the board in order to improve everything from media coverage to people winning the awards that we think should win the awards. Extending that knowledge is really important and having this option as well within gaming or within fantasy football is crucial in terms of increasing that knowledge base. Yeah, really good point.

I've loved today's pod. Absolutely fascinating. And I've loved all your questions as well. So keep sending them. I promise I will actually be much better at checking my inbox and making sure that we read them out every single week. You can either send us your questions on X or the email address for me to dig in and find them is women's football weekly at the Guardian.com.

Also a reminder to sign up for our biweekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search moving the goalposts sign up. Sof, lovely to see you as always. Great to be on. Thanks for having me. You have a safe journey. You have some fun football to be watching. Look forward to catching up with your ex-boys very soon. Susie Rack, I'm actually going to see you tomorrow,

and I cannot tell you how excited I am about that. That's slightly terrifying. It feels a little bit intimidating, but yes, I'm very excited too. Not in a stalker way. I very much enjoyed soapbox Monday. I feel like we've gotten a lot of soapboxes today. It's been good fun. We have.

We've had a sing song as well. I told you these Monday records are always a little bit bonkers. It's been great fun. I hope you've all enjoyed it as well. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura Iodale. Our executive producer is Joel Grove. This is The Guardian.