The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Lionesses find a way to win after James red card – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Faye Carruthers, Suzanne Wrack, Ceylon Andi Hickman and Tim Stillman discuss an eventful three days of last-16 Women’s World Cup action

Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today,

starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected, be Zen. This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to The Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, this World Cup just keeps getting better and better. Drama in Brisbane as the Lionesses scrape through to the quarterfinals, knocking out an impressive Nigerian side on penalties. But what next for Lauren James in this tournament?

After dazzling in the groups, England's Starlet faces a spell on the sidelines after seeing red. Sam Kerr is back, but the Matildas didn't even need her as the co-hosts cruise through to the last eight they join spain japan and the netherlands but the defending champions usa are out literally by a millimeter as sweden progress on spot kicks so much to unpack after a mad few days plus news of a managerial casualty and that's today's guardian women's football weekly news of a managerial casualty and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel, the only phone engineered by Google and proud partner of the England teams. Search Google Store to find out more. Well, what a panel we have. And we have a bit of a dual microphone tag team situation going on, Mark, too, with Susie Rack and Salon Andy Hickman,

who was at one point getting a scooter to Susie's hotel room. Then it was an Uber. I mean, how did you get there? I feel like you just need to tell us what a mad last hour or so it has been for you, Salon. It has been quite surreal. For most of the evening, I didn't think that I'd be sitting here feeling as happy as I am. But then I think when you do feel as happy as you do, then you have to kind of make the most of it. So celebrations after the game. And then I did arrive here to Susie's wonderful hotel room in an Uber,

not an electric scooter, which I think is better for everyone, for me and the streets of Brisbane. What a shame. And Susie Rack did say, don't hug me, I'm sweaty. Sticky. Thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated. Tim Stillman, you and I have been listening to renditions

of Natasha Bedingfield and all kinds of conversations about Cheetos and various things. How are you coping? Not too bad, thank you. None of those Natasha Bedingfield renditions, mercifully, were from me, I might point out. So yeah, I'm just kind of sat at home having a nice old time here. I don't think anybody is surprised by that somehow. I don't even think I've brushed my hair today. So, I mean, we're doing well, aren't we? And we've got a whole pod to bring you. Do you trust us? Do you trust us to bring you the drama? I'm not quite sure whether you should. This has similar chaos to the final episode

that we did last summer after the Euros final. It has similar energy, I think, already. It does. And thankfully, we won that game as well and we scraped through today. That's where we're starting. If you're an England fan listening to this, strap yourselves in.

If you're a fan of any of the other nations, just laugh at us. It's absolutely fine. England 0-0 Nigeria 0 is how it finished after 120 minutes. England won 4-2 on penalties. Has anybody actually recovered yet? Because my goodness me, the Lionesses made such hard work of it, didn't they? But they are through to the

quarterfinals of the World Cup, knocking out Nigeria. Chloe Kelly, the player for the big moment, scoring the winning spot kick emphatically to send the Lionesses through. I mean, there's just so much to talk about, Susie.ie but first and foremost how was it inside the Brisbane Stadium? Absolutely rocking from start to finish pretty much and sort of pretty evenly for both teams as well I thought I mean Salon was in the crowd so could probably speak to a little bit more I was sort of stuck in the gods in the in the press seats but yeah the vibe was really good it was sold out from the looks of it I mean early doors it looked a little bit empty but it filled right up and yeah really really good vibe very tense

as well as you can imagine. Go on then Solon tell me how it was from your perspective in with the fans. Incredibly tense and probably not enjoyable for a single second or minute I think of that game it felt very on edge there weren't many moments that you sat back and enjoyed or minute, I think, of that game. It felt very on edge. There weren't many moments that you sat back and enjoyed in that game. I think a lot of the moments were incredibly stressful. You didn't know what was going to happen next. And I think there was an energy amongst the crowd that felt that. I thought the Nigeria fans were brilliant.

I think they brought a lot of the energy and they had a kind of corner of the ground and a drum and they kept going the whole game. And it did feel as if there were lots of England fans in there but when there was a chance for Nigeria the roar did it was louder and I think that's probably a lot of Australians not wanting us to do very well but it was incredibly tense and yet not the most enjoyable game I've ever sat in as a fan in a crowd because there wasn't there wasn't much to cheer about no have to say, when we used the word fun after the China game, this felt like the complete opposite of that, didn't it?

I have to say, I really did think when the team sheets came out that the first thing that we were going to be talking about was the return of Keira Walsh. But I mean, it just wasn't important, ultimately, the end. The key turning point of the game was Lauren James. I mean, think Beckham in 98, Rooney 06, James 23. She's been the brightest spark for England in this tournament so far. But it was an absolute moment of madness in the 87th minute

from the Chelsea player. Let her frustration get the best of her. And it really could have cost England so dearly, Tim, couldn't it? It could have. But actually, in the end, in a weird way, I think, I wouldn't say the red card works for England, but I don't think it did work for Nigeria. I think Nigeria had a game plan where they were going player for player and they had a very kind of reactive game plan that was all about kind of using England's strengths against them.

And then all of a sudden, with that red card, the onus was on them, and they had the spare player. And I don't think they really knew how to use it. I think if that game had stayed 11 v 11, Nigeria would have had a better chance. However, clearly a bit of a moment of madness, like you say, from Lauren James. And I do think for England, there's a couple of themes here

where I think after the Euros, teams really identified Keira Walsh and started marking her very heavily. And now today you saw the same with Lauren James. Lauren James is now the emerging star of this England team. And you saw how much care kind of Ayinde in particular of Nigeria took of her. And this is just one of the things that England are going to have to get used to as they start to emerge as a bit of a footballing superpower. And it's something that Lauren James is going to have to get used to too. Yeah, it could have an impact going forward, which we'll discuss in a minute because there's a big question mark about how long her ban is going to be, whether it's going to be a three-match ban

for violent conduct, which is what she was sent off for, or whether it's just one. And ESPN's Dale Johnson has pointed out on Twitter, unlike in English football, a red card for violent conduct is not an automatic three-match ban at the Women's World Cup, but it's going to be reviewed by FIFA. And Nigeria's Deborah Abiodun was given three games for violent conduct. So we'll see what the outcome is of that and what it means for England going forward in this tournament but what about the Lionesses performance as a whole Susie I mean Nigeria hit the bar twice they were so disciplined they were so well organized they were first to every single ball it almost felt as if they wanted it more than England as well and it

was the perfect game plan up until that point from Randy Waldron to frustrate England and stop them from playing. Yeah, weirdly, I actually think Keira Walsh's return was pretty impactful in that, like, I think it didn't really work within the new formation with the back three. She sort of played as a single pivot when she should have been sort of playing a bit more as a double. Sat there in front of that back three she sort of almost blocked the path that we had seen be so successful against China of Millie Bright sort of breaking out down the middle and putting pressure there with her sitting so deep and Lauren James being marked

out of the game you basically had Georgia Stanway as the only sort of active midfielder for England so like I feel like that was actually a really difficult position for her to be in not because she's a bad player, obviously, but because she's not played that role. She's not used to playing in front of a back three like that. And I don't think that worked. So I think if you're going to play her, you sort of have to revert back to the system that you were playing before,

or you have to stick with the formula that worked so successfully against China for me. So that was where I think it sort of fell apart I thought Lucy Bronze got completely owned really frustratingly when she's one of the most physical players on England's team but England was second to every single ball and it wasn't even like it was a hugely physical game they just were sort of yeah just edged out and yeah just sort of like you say maybe wanted it not enough comparatively like for me that was the biggest issue and because then because of all those midfield you know the lack of activity in midfield Russo's dropping way way too deep

splitting way too far from Lauren Hemp and it just nothing quite clicked for me. Yeah I agree with you on that. And actually, when you think about it from what the FA told us, it was just the one training session, full training session for Keira Walsh taking part in that new system. So maybe not quite fully up to speed, but to be fair, to play 120 minutes after being stretched off in the game against Denmark is pretty remarkable because I think most of us thought we wouldn't see her

for the rest of the tournament. But ultimately, because of the result and the drama and and what happened with Lauren James etc etc feels like we've missed a few like pivotal points when I've been reading analysis from people straight after this game and one of them is the penalty that was overturned for England in the first half which I think was the correct decision. But I was very surprised that there was no VAR review for the Nigeria. And you're both shaking your heads at me in that hotel room, which I'm fascinated because obviously Tim and I watched it on television. You two watched it on real time. And if you watch the Rachel Daly penalty shout in the

first half, when you watch it back again, I think it could have been a penalty. It might have been soft, depends on which angle you look at it in terms of which way you you watch it back again, I think it could have been a penalty. It might have been soft. Depends on which angle you look at it in terms of which way you would go with it. But I do think that Nigeria should have had a penalty in the second half because Lucy Bronze on Michelle Olozi and it didn't even go to a VAR review,

which was so confusing because I thought that was more of a penalty than the Rachel Daly one. How did you guys see it? I thought Daly was a penalty. Whilst I was sat in the press box we had massive tv screens virtually blocking our view of the pitch um so we did get the replay pretty quick don't get me wrong I thought Rachel Daly made a bit of a meal out of it although you

could also argue that you know I think there's a case to say that more needs to be looked at in terms of the way players land when they're pushed. And sometimes you need to roll in a certain way to protect your limbs and the way you land in the safest possible way. My son does parkour. I see them practice falling and landing all the time and it's quite an acrobatic thing. So whilst she falls very acrobatically, I do think she gets quite a decent shove in the back in the box. You've seen them give and you've seen them not. But for me, I thought there was enough of a push down onto her back there

to justify penalty. But I completely agree. I think the incident between Lucy Bronze and Alozi was, yeah, for me definitely a penalty as well. So in a sense, I think personally, I think the two just cancelled themselves out a little bit um some good luck some bad luck either way but yeah for me I thought they were both decent shouts of penalties. Tim what did you make of it and what did you make of of the performance as a whole really it felt as if those those wide areas were being exploited by Nigeria perfectly

because we talked about what that might mean in a back three for England and maybe it wasn't the right formation for this side maybe there was a tiny bit of complacency against a team ranked 40 in the world who actually you know there's no point having FIFA rankings at this tournament I would say grab your paper and rip it up because they certainly, they looked like the higher ranked team at points. Yeah, and Randy Waldron made that point afterwards about the ranking and kind of saying quite diplomatically, I hope that's corrected in light of this tournament.

But I think this was always going to be interesting to see how this system worked because against China, first off, China played a very narrow 4-4-2 and England were just able to outnumber them in every area of the pitch and China didn't know England were going to do it. There was an element of surprise, whereas Nigeria would have been able to watch that game. I always felt that Nigeria would be better set up to deal with it, but what they did really cleverly was they pushed England wide. One of the reasons they pushed England wide is because Nigeria are very strong attacking out wide, and actually, Daly and Bronze, you wouldn't call either of them natural defenders.

They're both much more attacking. So what Nigeria were able to do was push England wide and then take the ball off them in wide positions where they're strong and where England are weak. So again, it was a really, really good part of the game plan for Nigeria to do that. I guess what I'd really take away from this game in terms of criticism for the coach was how long it took to make substitutions. And, you know, look, the responsibility for Lauren James's red card rests with Lauren James.

However, she was just about to come off and really she should have been off 10 minutes earlier and I think being very slow to react to that was a bit of a concern yeah like you say 100% responsibility for what Lauren James did lies with Lauren James and whilst I don't think anyone should you know have any sort you know you've already sort of seen it online abuse directed at them for something like that regardless of you know how wrong it was you know they're going to beat themselves up enough for anyone at the same time i do think serena does have to take a little bit of responsibility for allowing her to get to a point where she is that frustrated because you could see it coming you could see her getting increasingly irritated.

There were some little snappy tackles. There were some almost like bursts of runs when she managed to find a little bit of space that just looked angry. And for me, you've got to be reading that as a manager, that emotion, that body language. It doesn't forgive what Lauren James did. You know, people say she's a young player but she's 21 and that's an adult and if my son knows not to like push someone at school ever then I

feel like we need to treat her like an adult not you know kind of slaughter her for it but say this was very wrong move on and you know go again but learn from it yeah big time so yeah I completely agree with that. Colombia or Jamaica await in the quarterfinals Salon in order for you to get through without the same anxiety and anguish that you've experienced over the last couple of hours what do England need to work on going into that game obviously we'll find out who their opponents are on Tuesday. There's a lot, but I think we need to really bring back the surprise factor and the surprise element and the creativity. And I think Serena is the best manager in the competition to be able to bring that. I think what you saw in the China game of this kind of building system without Keira Walsh in it and introducing Lauren James in the second game

and then the third game and really sort of her growing into that role was a surprise, right? An element that teams couldn't prepare for. I'm quite excited for the next game because we have to think creatively again and that we have looked at our best when we haven't been able to rest on, okay, well, this is how we play. These are the players that we rely on and this is how we're going to perform. When we have to rest on, okay, well, this is how we play. These are the players that we rely on, and this is how we're going to perform.

When we have to think about, right, we know Columbia are going to offer this. We know Jamaica are going to offer X, Y, Z, whatever. We know this is how we're going to set up against them. These are the players that we have to do it. I think being able to bring in other players, Beth England starting her up top, it baffled me that we went to a 4-4-1

and had Chloe Kelly as a one, when Beth England or Rachel Daly could play that one role quite well as a lone striker. We've got the versatility in the squad to be able to adapt to anyone that we're playing, but we have to be proactive with that. I think we maybe underestimated what Nigeria were going to bring tonight. We shouldn't write off the fact how brilliant Nigeria were tonight. They were incredible.

I think the two fullbacks in particular had incredible games, as Tim touched on. But we know both of these teams, whichever one it is, Colombia or Jamaica, are going to be absolutely up for it and up for a fight against us for various reasons, for different ways. But we know that we can also adapt to whoever that is. And I think that forced creativity will be quite good for us

to potentially bring a tune back in. Potentially you start a Beth England up top. We have to think differently. And I think that will bode well for us. It's a weird position to be in, compared to what we went through last summer, right? Which is we know the formula and we knew who was going to come on. Now it's like I'm quite excited by the changes

that we're going to have to make. Yeah, and Ella Toon's going to want to make a point as well isn't she having lost her place essentially to Lauren James she's at least going to get one opportunity depending on what happens with with Lauren James going forward. Just one other thing to kind of touch on before we move on to Australia's match against Denmark Tim and you know the penalties were dispatched I think once we got to, I was quite comfortable with England going through, actually. Although that confidence kind of evaporated ever so slightly when Georgia Stanway, usually you would bet your house on Georgia Stanway scoring a penalty.

For the second time in a row, it wasn't a comfortable penalty. It was completely wide, like, you know, metres, miles, miles yards whichever you want yeah and I kind of shared your comfort going into penalties for two reasons first of all I kind of think when you don't deserve to get to a penalty shootout I feel a little bit calmer about them also you know you and I would have watched the BBC coverage and Jonas Eidevall gave some really great insight on some of the things that England were doing in the build-up to the shootout so he spoke about how England were first into the centre circle so that they took prime position and Nigeria the Nigerian players had to walk past them and so they had to do the longer walk and England positioned themselves near their bench

so they did lots of little prep like that and you saw when you look at the replay of um of one of the nigeria penalties mary erps at first i think it goes in and i think at first she's got her head on her hands and then she immediately snaps out of it and she goes and gets the ball because she wants to give the ball to the taker and yeah jonas idebal was talking about how england had done that in the finalissima as well against Brazil, how they'd had that experience of a shootout in front of a big crowd, but also how they'd had all of these kind of little preparation moments. And I saw Randy Waldron's comments afterwards. He said England had more experience in crucial moments. I think he meant the penalty shootout? Without a doubt. And also winning the toss is really important. But I've got a little bit of an additional insight. I mean, look, wherever I can shoehorn Luton Town into a podcast, I will shoehorn Luton Town into a podcast.

And we won our penalty shootout in the championship playoff final using the FA's research that they had done, which the Lionesses have clearly taken on, which Gareth Southgate's England had as well for our penalty shootout in terms of we were encroaching further forward we were always ahead of the coventry players whenever someone was taking a penalty it's all those tiny little psychological moments it helped that they took them obviously in front of the england fans it helped that they went first all of those things add to it. But as you say, the psychology of penalties is absolutely crucial.

And that's where an investment like the FA have put into that kind of research is going to help the national teams. The moment I thought England were going to win was on the final whistle. The Nigeria players sunk like they had lost the game um you know they were on their knee like bent over on some on the floor some like really sort of you know kind of head in hands kind of thing like they had just lost the game a last minute whip to a last minute winner or something at that point i thought they think they're not going to win um straight off the bat so that was the point for me where i thought this is england's and my god chloe kelly's, just four. Oh God, it was like a rocket. There was a lot of little tricks, and you could see the professionalism of this team

throughout the match. Mary Earps went down in extra time, and we were all like, what's gone wrong? Ellie Roebuck sent to warm up, but actually she's gone to Millie, she's pulled over Millie Bryant, she said, I'm doing this for a reason. Millie Bryant's got the whole team in and gone for it, basically taking a timeout, right? And they've had this, I was sat just above the England bench and you watch the team talk there and it happens. There was another moment as well towards the end of the game where Georgia Stanway, again, also takes a moment and she runs to Serena and she gives some

really important information as Serena's about to make a change or something was about to happen and she says something to Serena and then Serena turned to her backroom team and then there was a different instruction that's come very confidently from Georgia Stanway that's then been responded to they prepare for lots of different situations but they also you can kind of see a bit of quite a lot of autonomy that the players take themselves of like we know how to respond to what's going on right now and we know what's best for us in this moment and that's that is the game management that you need to win seven games in a row to win a world cup that's the kind of thing that Serena will bring to this team but also maybe is the thing that we haven't seen from England teams in the past and the things that we did have that edge on on other

teams like Nigeria. Yep experience it's absolutely key for sure so england through to the quarterfinals who else was going to join them australia beat denmark by two goals to nil in the other round of 16 tie today the co-hosts booking their place in the last eight more than 75 000 fans witnessing what ended up to be a comfortable two nil victory over a very disappointing Denmark, you have to say. Goals from Caitlin Ford and Hayley Rasso in each half, ensuring safe passage to the next round. The Guardian's Matildas reporter Kieran Pender sent us this voice note from Stadium Australia in Sydney. So the Matildas march on into the quarterfinals

for only the second time in the team's history with a composed performance to beat Denmark 2-0 in Sydney tonight. And I'm now just gathering my thoughts on what was a really mature victory from the Matildas. I'm reflecting on four years ago in Nice, in France, they went out in their under-16 on penalties to Norway. The demons were there tonight and could easily have got to the Matildas, but there was no sign that any of that mental baggage was hanging over them.

Notwithstanding a really strong start from Denmark, Peniel Harder, their captain, their star, looked all over the Matildas in the early phases of the game. Interestingly, I thought a really pivotal moment was when the Australian fill-in captain, while Sam Kerr's returning from injury, Steph Catley went down with a knock midway through the first half. That stopped the momentum. It gave the Matildas time to regroup. The players ran over to coach Tony Gustafsson to gather their thoughts.

And from then on, the Matildas looked much better, led to the first goal not much long after. An absolutely beautiful goal. Caitlin Ford, Mary Fowler, back to Caitlin Ford. I thought it really underscored Ford's rise and dominance at this World Cup in the place of Sam Kerr without captain and striker sensation for Australia. Sam Kerr, Ford has stepped up. She's been there when it mattered

and she eased off those early nerves against Denmark to open the scoring. And then Hayley Rasso slotted another one for Australia to really comfortably win. It was an interesting move from Tony Gustafsson to bring Kerr back when arguably they didn't need her. The team were 2-0 up but it gave a huge boost of confidence to the team to see their captain. A number of the players have described Sam Kerr in recent weeks

as their spiritual leader, and when she came back on the pitch, it really felt like it gave the team that boost. And with that, the Matildas are into the quarterfinals, a place they've only been once before in 2015. They lost in the quarterfinals then. Can they go one or more better at their home world cup well certainly on the evidence of Monday night this is one of the teams to beat. I mean look not as a resounding scoreline as maybe we've seen in some of the other round of 16 ties Tim but it

never really looked in doubt for the Australians at the same time. Yeah as soon as it went to one at nil-nil I felt there was a little bit in the balance here. One of my concerns, I guess, about the Matildas, they only play with a midfield two. And if there's one team that can exploit that, it's Denmark, because of the way they play through Pernilla harder. And early on, she was dropping into that

kind of number 10 position, picking the ball up relatively easily. But as soon as it went to 1-0, Denmark, to me me they look like the team they looked at the Euros last summer which is give the ball to Pernilla Harder and hope that she does something and it doesn't really look like they've developed a tactical idea or beyond that but with Australia I think something that really interests me about Australia in this tournament is I always felt that a team that was going to win this tournament was going

to be a team that had an issue but they fix it during the tournament and actually the Sam Kerr injury in a weird way it took them a little while but I think it's kind of helped them because one of the things they didn't have was I think a technical creative player they've got Mary Fowler but they've struggled to integrate her. The Sam Kerr injury has forced them to do that. So they've played Mary Fowler in that number 10, where Caitlin Ford's been playing for the last year or so. Moved Caitlin Ford back out wide and we saw how that combination worked very, very nicely for the first goal. But I think that's just solved a little issue for the Matildas. They're a very transitional kind of counter-attacking team and I just doubted

they had that that player to really pick a pass but now they've got Mary Fowler in the team I think they've got that I think they look really strong and I could see them going to the final I really could. Potentially the way the draw has opened up I mean they'll face France or Morocco in the quarterfinals if England get through their quarterfinal match and Australia get through theirs, we could be seeing an England-Australia semifinal and Susie's face says it all because we didn't want that. But we thought we might get them in the last 16 at one point.

So that's how this tournament has ended up. But I know you were trying to find a scooter at the time, Solon, so you might not quite know the full answer to this in terms of observing it firsthand however your women's football knowledge knows how crucial Sam Kerr is as a player and the cheer that went up around Stadium Australia when she was stripped and ready to come on on the 70th minute mark was was real goosebumps I mean she had to wait another 10 minutes to actually get on the pitch, but she did come on to a hero's welcome on the 80th minute. And it feels her return is perhaps a pretty ominous

sign for the other teams left in this competition, including England, potentially, as Susie's face explained. Oh, it's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying. It's like having a secret weapon in your back pocket and then just letting it out when no one thought it was going to be able to be used. I was actually in a bar at the time and the roar in the bar, like she's just around the corner from the Brisbane Stadium, was enormous. When the camera even panned to her taking off her tracksuit top, like everyone was going absolutely mental. It was also quite funny at the end of the England game

because as soon as it hit 8.30, the penalties weren't even over yet. But that stadium started to empty as everyone started going, we're Australian, we're going to watch this game. But I think having Sam Kerr back is, yeah, phenomenal for the team, but also quite a surprise. I think the longer this saga was going on, the more I was believing that actually this is a lot, a deeper injury, a longer term injury. Talks about it having started actually not in this World Cup and

actually before in the last behind closed door friendly being the game that actually she did it in. And thinking actually this is a much longer term injury in her calf. And I didn't think we would see her today. I really didn't. So it was quite a surprise to be able to see her. And I think a lot of people also shared that sentiment that I've spoken to thinking that this has been a bit of the drama carrying on, a lot of mind games being played around, will she appear? Won't she appear? Who do you prepare for?

Do you prepare for Sam? Do you not prepare for Sam Kerr? So it was really nice to see her back in the tournament, because I think it would have been heartbreaking to get to an end of a tournament where you hadn't seen the talisman player of the host nation perform in front of people. So brilliant for the game, brilliant for the tournament. Absolutely terrifying for England and anyone that's about to face Australia. That's who Pernilla Harder is for Denmark. But I mean, they just kind of went out with a whimper, really. They didn't offer much in this game. And I don't feel like they've necessarily offered that much in the whole tournament, really. The problem is, is Pernilla Harder is like the standout star.

And, you know, the rest of the team aren't bad quality, but they're just nowhere near that level. And, you know, when they come up against a side that is a little bit more balanced ability wise technically is just a little bit closer to that level then they're going to come undone and obviously Australia is stacked with talent across the pitch now in a way they've sort of been on a journey where they were one or two players and then now you know have had a load of really great players sort of come into form and a lot of young players come through, then Marks need to go on that journey of finding players of the quality of Peniela Harder and developing them and making sure they're playing

at clubs that are playing at a high level and things like that. That's the issue for them. I don't like using the term one-player team, but she's just so far above the level of everyone else on that side that it's hard to see them doing anything special until those kind of changes happen for me. Well, I mean, they just need to look at Australia and see what they've managed to do.

A good blueprint for them, maybe. So Australia wait to find out who their opponents will be in the next round. It's going to be either France or Morocco. As I said, they play on Tuesday. Plenty of reaction to that one and we'll also look ahead to the other quarterfinals in tomorrow's pod. But that's it for part one. In part

two, we'll round up the rest of the round of 16 ties, including that penalty shootout in Melbourne. welcome back to part two of the guardian women's football weekly and well well well would you believe it back-to-back champions the the USA are out by a millimetre. And I'm not even joking or exaggerating. I mean, it is their earliest ever exit from a Women's World Cup after defeat on penalties by Sweden. It was an extraordinary night of drama.

We never thought we'd see the day, Susie, did we? No. And I mean, the thing is, is like whilst it is quite fun to see the holders go out in the manner that they did as well, you know, when there is just this sort of incredible air of arrogance around the team. It also, for me, I think a lot of people are writing the US's obituary a little bit too soon. Like whilst I think they do need a new manager who is a little bit more tactically astute, there's so much talent in that squad and they're very much a squad in transition. And, you know, a bunch of those young players have got some really important tournament experience now. And I think the difference for me is that the level of the game of all the other teams has raised to a point where the US don't win when they're in transition like they would previously. Previously, they were sort of able to coast regardless of who was coming in

and who was out of the team. And that's, for me, the change. And I've seen people talk about the sort of lack of competitiveness at sort of international youth levels and things like that. But I still think that the college system and the NWSL set up allows for a really strong development of a massive talent pool that is bearing fruits, as we're seeing in the likes of Sophia Smith and Trinity Rodman and players like that. But it's just that it's not going to be the case that they just relentlessly win anymore.

It's going to be a case that if they're in transition as a team they they won't necessarily have it all their own way and that's going to be a little bit of a challenge for them in terms of like mentality and stuff because they're so used to just winning all the time and expecting they'll win so I think that's going to test that a little bit but yeah I mean I think tactically all over the shop and really need like far better organisation, someone that's going to really be able to find a formula that makes the most of the extraordinary talents of the players at their disposal. Can we talk about the statement they put out?

Do you know what, Solon? I've got that here. Do you want me to read it out to you in case some of you haven't seen it and you can react off the back of it? So the US Women's National Team statement reads, We want to express our gratitude to the fans and supporters who stood by our team. Your unwavering support means a lot to us and we appreciate your dedication. This year's Women's World Cup is a testament to the growth of women's soccer on a global scale and we're excited to see increased investment in these incredible players.

Our goal remains the same, to win. We're committed to surpassing the standard we helped to create and we will rise to meet the challenge. I love it. I love it. It's true.

It is true. There is truth in there. It's brilliant that, you know, they have helped create this standard and it's amazing to see so many teams doing so well in this tournament we are going to hold this world cup up for the rest of history as the tournament that debunked a lot of myths or stereotypes or existing power dynamics right that's a beautiful

beautiful thing but the fact that you're releasing a statement that is clearly pre-prepared from your comms department to center yourself in a time where you have not performed as you should have with the resources that you have, the players that you have, the potential managers and systems at your disposal that you have not used is, I don't know, it was the last bit about the standard that we have helped to set I think that is true there was a time when we were all growing up in this country you could not play professionally in this country everyone's dream was to go to America yes they have done that but to release that as your response to just actually being really subpar and letting down

a lot of your fans and a lot of people who love this sport are big huge huge fans and followers of the us women's national team to say oh it's okay that we were a bit rubbish and i think we had around 57 shots on target in the in the games that we played and scored how many goals they scored one and i just made that up no they scored three goals in their opening game didn't they so i'm reciting what americans have said to me tonight in the bars but like there's a lot of anger right there's a lot of anger directed at this what has happened to this team that could hold true right as in like vlatko people have told me the last couple days they're just calling him vlat go or vlat no like get him out that he cannot

manage this team. But at the same time, you also could hold up the argument that they are a team in transition and they haven't played together, but you still have a level of quality there that should probably get you past the last 16 with a decent manager. And you only have to tune into one episode of Tobin Heath and Kristen Press's blog to see the anger and the resentment that is building around where US women's national team football is going to see that it's a systemic issue or an issue that is deep-rooted like lack of trust in who is leading how they're playing and where the where football is going for them and I think that's a really sad thing because they have set the standard for us and they have

been brilliant in how many years but I think using that moment to say, oh, but look how great we've been in the last few years. It was a bit misjudged, I think. All the headlines are about USA, aren't they? Which I think is unfair on Sweden, but probably Sweden are quite happy just to stay under the radar because the irony is they played so badly and completely relied on Zatira Musovic. You had the game of her life in goal, Tim. 11 saves she made. She was a real woman possessed and got them through it.

Yeah, absolutely. Sweden are a team who, you know, they've won all their games and I've not been impressed with it. Even when they beat Italy 5-0, I wasn't that impressed with them. But what they've got going for them, two very important things in international tournaments very solid defense and they're great at set pieces and those two things can get you a long way in international tournaments but yeah they owe a lot to their goalkeeper on this occasion I think

they know that they maybe owe a little bit to the metric system as well in that winning penalty but like I said at the top like this tournament was always going to be about a flawed team either getting far or winning it because all of the teams have just got these kind of slight issues and sweden for me a bit i guess a bit like japan this is the first tournament in ages where i haven't really talked up the chances of japan Sweden. I tipped Sweden to win the Euros last year. And this time I kind of thought, no, Sweden, probably just a little bit past peak, haven't really talked about Japan at all.

And they're the ones who've really kind of, you know, I say taken the tournament by storm. I think that belongs to Japan more than Sweden, but they're going to play each other now in the quarterfinal. And one of those teams is going to the semifinals. I think for Sweden, this is psychologically a huge victory for them, particularly because they have this real history with the US. And the US, you know, Sweden beat them in the Olympics,

but in the World Cup, US win this battle historically. So that might be, and sometimes you get that in a tournament sometimes someone gets a big win in a knockout round early in a knockout round and that momentum takes them and Sweden could do that and if there's one weakness of Japan it might be defending set pieces and that's what Sweden are really strong at so I think that's going to be a really interesting quarterfinal and fair play to Sweden because they toughed this out, but they got through. Yeah, that's an 8.30am UK time, Sweden versus Japan in the last eight.

Just one tiny quick point on Arsenal's Lina Hurtig, Susie. It was the most bizarre penalty shootout I've ever seen. Penalties skied over the bar or wide left, right and centre. It was absolutely shocking. But then Arsenal's Lina Hurtig winning it in that fashion and I swear to God Alyssa Nair is still remonstrating with the referee over it. But that's what goal line technology is there for. Yeah. And I mean, it's sort of, I thought was not symptomatic, that's the wrong word, a reflection of Lena Hurtig's season, which hasn't necessarily set the world on fire. It's probably been a bit disappointing. I think she's maybe not been quite up to the level that people hoped in England. And when I saw her stepping up to take a penalty, I wasn't that hopeful because she struggled to get goals last season.

And yeah, for it to be kind of quite comical in that way was semi-amusing. Although that said, one of the interesting things is, I think I saw a few people making the point that the goalkeeper saved it and then sort of saves it again and you know you're not allowed to go for the rebound on a penalty shoot out like that so why should a you know goalkeeper be allowed to sort of make the save twice so to speak and if the if Neha hasn't saved it once and then being able to save it again then you're sort of of, you know, home and dry anyway. But that's a little aside point. But I sort of thought that was quite an interesting issue as well. It's a turning of the wheel of history, right? It's like you've had dominance for so, so long. And with that dominance, there has been, of course, a confidence which has sometimes lent itself to arrogance. And so when you see anyone

on the top of their perch being knocked off by a millimetre, less than a millimetre, there is a humour in that. And I think as watching that, I think it's maybe okay to take a little bit of joy in it. I also said on Twitter that I don't think it should, like obviously the right wing are going absolutely joyous over it. And I think that's completely inappropriate. From a footballing point of view, we can enjoy it. And from a sporting point of view, we can enjoy it. But the idea that all of the accomplishments,

campaigning wise of that team, are undone by this performance in this World Cup, like is outrageous. They're still the goats. they're still they're still the goats they're still the goats absolutely they are lots of goats in the Netherlands I think I don't know I might be making that up I was just trying to make a conjuncture between the two conversations I actually have no idea please somebody tweet us in and let us know how many goats there are in the Netherlands anyway they had to endure some nervy moments in their

match against South Africa, but quality eventually shone through. It took just nine minutes for Jill to head the 2019 finalists ahead in Sydney before Lynette Bierenstein finished things off in the second half after capitalising on an error by the South African keeper, Kaylin Schwartz. It's fair to say they've been the fast starters at this World Cup salon. Six goals inside the opening 20 minutes of this tournament so far already. Overall, impressive maybe from the Dutch.

You were there at the top of this pod before we started recording. You said you actually couldn't remember being there. Oh, you've outed me there, Faye. I couldn't remember being there because it feels so long ago. I got up at four o'clock this morning to fly from Sydney to Brisbane for the Lionesses game. And that took how many years off my life expectancy. So that's why I couldn't remember it.

When I do recall them every game, I was really excited to see the Netherlands play in the flesh. I think they've been one of the best teams that we've seen play in this tournament. They've moved the ball really really well they've looked incredible in possession they've looked really exciting and a team of

I don't know it's been like rolling back the years a little bit I've been quite excited to watch them play and I was maybe that was

sort of some of that energy was dissipated by being in the stadium and watching that performance but that does not take away the credit because if you'd have given me

as an England fan if you'd have given me that Netherlands performance tonight and winning you give me that netherlands performance tonight and winning comfortably two nil within the 90 i would have taken it in a heartbeat it was a professional performance they got the two goals how they did the dual world goal was a little bit scrappy wasn't best gone in the world the second goal was a defensive error but you take it you know that south africa are gonna play you on the break they nullified that threat. South Africa weren't particularly clever, I think, as well, out of possession. I think they pressed way too intensively, but not as a unit.

And so kind of a lot of pace was burnt or spent not winning the ball back and just kind of pressing as a solo striker, which wasn't ideal. But yeah, the reason I maybe didn't recall it as one of the most exciting games I've ever been to in my life is because it wasn't, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a good performance from the Netherlands and I would still be very scared to face them. And I think, yeah, it's good to see them playing

this level of football and I think, yeah, an enjoyable team to watch. Yeah, and Daphne van Domsla made a lot of big saves in this game. Exciting prospect for Aston Villa going forward. South Africa, though, just been a joy to watch in this tournament, Tim. The fact that they pushed the Netherlands so far should really be applauded in a non-patronising way, by the way, especially considering they lost two players to injury in the first half. But Tembi Catlana has been absolutely outstanding. She's a real leader, isn't she? And it feels like we're going to see so much more from this side in years to come under Desiree Ellis. Yeah, definitely. I thought in the first half they were the better team. Actually, I thought, you know,

you look at a weakness in that Netherlands team, Charida Spitz, I mean, she's not usually a centre-half anyway, alongside Van de Graaf being kind. That's not the fastest defence that you can put out. I think Dominic Jansen on the left of that back three, I think you can excuse her from that. But that's where you can expose Netherlands

because they play Victoria Pullover as a right wing back. She's not a defender. And South Africa hit that space again and again and again. And I think they did it really successfully. I think Netherlands sorted some things out at half time and they were a bit more solid. But I felt like the game was really in the balance at the point that that second goal went in, which was, I mean, the keeper error. I think it's almost the shot was so easy.

And because South Africa were losing, in her mind, she'd already caught it. And she was looking at who to throw it to because you see her, she takes it on the move. And she's fully thinking about, right, I'm going to bowl this out because, you know, time's getting on. We need a goal. I think it was one of those where it was too easy and she missed the part of actually catching the ball. At that point, that was such a killer because at that point, South Africa were majorly in the game, perhaps not as threatening as they were in the first half but they're another team like you say without wishing to sound patronizing they're another team who came into this tournament fighting their federation you know let's remember they went

on strike for their final warm-up game every single player went on strike when they played Botswana before they flew off for the tournament and you, another team that's really brought it to this tournament has played well in every game, perhaps a bit unlucky as well in some of their group games. And I thought they were fantastic. I thought this was a game on a bit of a knife edge and they were just on the wrong end of the details. Yeah, emotional scenes at the end for your old mate as well, Tim, Danielle van der Donk.

She's going to miss the quarterfinal after picking up a second yellow card, broke down in tears at the final whistle. Big call for Andreas Jonker as to how they deal with her absence. I mean, this is an amazing stat. She started all 15 previous World Cup games that the Netherlands have ever played, which is quite incredible. So Spain and the Netherlands go head to head in Wellington. That's a 2am kick-off

time in the UK. Set your alarms now if you're over here. So that's all Sunday's action. Let's just wrap up Saturday. Japan 3, Norway 1. Japan once again showing why they're considered as one of the favourites to go all the way, outclassing Norway. They're now the only former World Cup winners left in the tournament. And on on this showing they're going to take some beating Susie. Oh 100% I mean I'm sort of looking forward to see them get tested against a team that's really going to put their defense under pressure I think Tim made a really good point earlier about their weakness from set pieces they're quite a short team so I think that's going to be really interesting moving forward but they play like a club side they're so cohesive as a unit, so in sync.

And it's sort of been a long time coming for this Japan team. You know, they've been building for a long time towards maturing a group of young players together, almost throwing tournaments to a certain extent in order to sort of prepare them for the future. And now it's all coming together so, so beautifully. Yeah, it really is. For Norway, though, there's not been really that much beautiful

about their tournament. I know they had a really emphatic win over Panama, but ultimately we've talked a lot about them in this tournament in terms of underwhelming. Norway coach Hege Risa seemed pretty resigned to the result afterwards, Salon. She said, credit to Japan for how they played and how they broke us down. We were solid in defence at times, but not quite good enough. And, you know, doesn't really need much for us to say.

They were just underwhelming all tournament, really. I'm still surprised they even played a last 16 fixture. They were such a shock that they even got through. It was a, yeah, I thought they they were surefire out in the group stages and obviously seemed to get through but I don't know there needs to be a lot of changes right in Norway you can't be playing with some of the best players some of the best attacking players Graham Hansen in that squad Heidelberg playing not succeeding in that team I just think there's there's huge problems and they need to look into it. And unfortunately,

another kind of incidence of where governance, management, structure is the thing that's holding back a lot of talented players. We've seen that with Spain, but it's not stopping them at the minute. Switzerland 1, Spain 5.

An emphatic response to that 4-0 defeat by Japan in their last group game by inflicting Switzerland's heaviest ever World Cup defeat in a 5-1 rout at Eden Park. 43,217 people there to watch this, no less. A record crowd for a football match in New Zealand. And those fans were treated to quite the masterclass from Spain, Tim. Yeah, absolutely.

You know, and Jorge Vilda, who I don't think is everyone's favourite person or coach both in and out of that Spain squad but he made some big calls before this game because I looked at the Spain team sheet and I kind of thought am I looking at the subs list by accident here he made several changes including the goalkeeper. But, you know, you have to give him, maybe reluctantly, give him his credit for this game. Because Spain were absolutely excellent. They even provided Switzerland's biggest threat on goal as well. You know, kind of scored a goal for them because Switzerland couldn't get out of their own half. And yeah, they looked really formidable in this game.

I was really disappointed with Switzerland though. I know it's a bit of a mismatch in terms of talent and you expect Spain to dominate the ball and everything like that. Everything I've seen from Switzerland in this tournament is a team that just doesn't have a plan with the ball. It's all very well defending and trying to be solid, which they didn't even manage in this game. But when you've got players like Backman and Koenig-Urcic as well, it just seemed like when they got the ball, there was nothing for them to really do with it. And let's face it, Switzerland got through because they were in the plum group with New Zealand as top seeds.

Otherwise, they're not a round of 16 team. And I think that showed in this game. But also without the ball, Bomati scored pretty much the same goal twice, the first and the third goal, right? You know you're playing against a player who is technically fantastic. It was so funny watching Bomati's second goal, which was Spain's third goal, go in because the way she moves her body is exactly the same as the first time and you see the Switzerland defenders go in their heads, we know what she's going to do here she's going to pivot and turn us

but the body goes no sorry i'm not going to be able to do that and recover and it was yeah it was clearly obvious that they're just a team that can outclass them individually one-to-one all i have in my head now is beyonce deja vu to go along with unwritten by natasha birdingfield from earlier on. And I mean, to be fair, Spain had almost been written off after what we saw Japan do to them, but they're in the final eight for the first time in their history, which is quite amazing. It could also be a statement for them. They've scored 13 goals in four games, had 70% of the possession as well.

Will Spain go all the way? Two final round of 16 ties to come on Tuesday at nine o'clock UK time Colombia face Jamaica 12 o'clock it's France against Morocco and just some news elsewhere Milena Bertolini announced via Instagram of course as you do that she's left her role as Italy head coach after their group stage exit from the World Cup she said in her statement I leave the national team after so many beautiful and very intense years which I will always carry with me it's not always possible to achieve positive results but I have no doubts about everyone's commitment and good intention I mean who's going to be our fashion icon now Susie it's not really a surprise is it from what we saw from this tournament and also last summer's Euros

yeah and the statements from the players after the game saying how frustrated they were with the way the team had been set up with uh the number of like players they've got playing the champions league uh in their squad you know there's clearly some issues there obviously like how could you even ask who the style icon is obviously Serena uh look at her in a great little jacket as an aside yeah underwhelmed with Italy it's a hard one because they they were so excited to watch in 2019 really like everyone's favorite underdog I think and then obviously significantly underperformed in the Euros and then underperformed in this tournament

but or was it them just overachieving in 2019? So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see what a new manager, fresh blood coming in, can do with a side that has a lot of promise and they are investing in Italy quite heavily. So, yeah, it will be really interesting to see. Yeah, well, this has been a fascinating pod to discuss with all of you. I think we were very stressed at the start with how it all kind of panned out weren't we but it's been a delight tim lovely to see you as always my pleasure thank you very much suzy and salon the ultimate double act joined at the hip slash

headphone take care both of you thanks foe yeah thank you i do think i need to clarify that i was sticky from some caramel that dripped down the side of a sundae and not from sweat do you know what when i said it first of all i was thinking while i was like stressing out with my microphone i'd heard the caramel thing and i thought you were going to clarify it for me and you didn't so i'm very glad you did at the end and now i really want a caramel sundae so so badly uh right we'll be back tomorrow to round up those two final round of 16 ties France against Morocco and Colombia versus Jamaica and we'll also tease ahead to those tantalizing quarterfinals

Women's Football Weekly is produced by Lucy Oliver music composition was by Laura Iredale our executive producer is Sal Ahmad. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel. With its incredible camera and AI-powered technology, Google Pixel is bringing fans closer to the game this summer. Search Google Store to find out more. This is The Guardian. Do you have business insurance?

If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen.