The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Manchester is sky blue and Chelsea stumble again – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Ayisha Gulati and Dr Chris Paouros to discuss Manchester City’s derby win, Chelsea’s setback at Liverpool and all the weekend’s WSL action.

This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faker Others, and welcome to the girly Guardian Women's Football Weekly, the little sis of the Guardian Football Weekly. I hope you're all wearing pink glitter, drinking matcher, and skipping around like the rest of us. I jest, obviously, and I think Sky's Halo concept has had enough of a beating this week, so we'll discuss it in the wider context and ask why so many brands struggle to connect with women's sports fans. In the actual football, Manchester is blue, city take charge in the derby,

and now the table as Chelsea dropped points again, this time against Liverpool, who saw that coming? And West Ham finally get three points on the board after beating Everton. We'll dissect all the action from the weekend, ask if in-game interviews should be scrapped, take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. What a panel we have today. Susie Rack, how are you doing? Well, I know this is a very silly question because we've just talked about the fact that you're not feeling particularly well. Yeah, I mean, given we just paused the start because I thought I was going to vomit is probably not a good indication or a good indication of exactly how I'm feeling. But other than that,

I'm actually all right. Good. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear it. If we do sound a bit weird and pause or need to put in some kind of lift music sound effects, it is because Susie has had to disappear. We have a debutante this morning. Aisha Galati, how are you? I'm very well. Thank you, Faye. Thanks so much for having me. Oh, we're very much looking forward to it. And I feel like we need to drum roll our next guest. Dr. Chris Pairos is in the house. Oh, my, thank you very much. A new prefix. How are you? I'm very good. It's quite exciting. And thank you for shouting it out because I am quite proud of myself, I've got to say. We're very proud of you on the pod. It was a bit girly, actually. I did when I saw your stuff come up on social media go, oh, yes, Chris.

An element of girly came in. Nothing wrong with that. Right, listen, it was the first Manchester Derby of the season at the Etiad on Saturday City. breased past United thanks to three first half goals from Rebecca Kinnack Bunny Shaw and Lauren Hemp which along with other results then consolidated their position

at the top of the Barclays WSL eight straight wins for Manchester City now they've got a four point lead at the top of the table Susie what did you make of their performance can they win the title yes is the answer

in journalism never ask a closed question I just did exactly that Yeah Yeah there's a few managers Isn't there where you are If you ask a closed question They literally just give you

The flat answer And then you're like Oh God, okay I think it's deserved to be fair Yeah They for sure can No Champions League Like absolutely like flying

dominant performance Really strong squad depth They've got everything going for them I think if they don't win it this year Then they've massively dropped the ball right? Like hugely, that's the reality of it. Yeah, without a doubt. Andre Yaglats was asked what he was most pleased about in terms of the performance and he said, I think probably the adaptability in our defending.

I think when we started, it was very clear on how I wanted it to be done, but I needed to adjust how we do that, but also playing more man to man, which we're doing partly in the games. I was a little bit worried that would take a little bit longer, but they're very good at it. I mean, we always talk a lot, Aisha, about City's attack, but their defence is really impressive, particularly bearing in mind there without Alex Greenwood at the moment, it really nullified Jess Park and Elizabeth Turland, didn't it? Yeah, it really did. I think keeping a clean sheet against your Manchester rivals is no mean fee. I think I went into this game expecting a draw, so I was totally wrong. I expected a lot of goals, so I guess I was somewhat right,

but I did expect United to score. And yeah, that is testament to City's back line. And it feels like even without Alex Greenwood and a couple of other players, it is still just, they do look back to their best. And that squad depth is something that has really looked bolstered this season. But I think more than that, just the energy that you're seeing just all over the pitch. And that has to come from the manager, that new lease of life that a Yeglot seemed to have injected into this city team. I mean, any score sheet featuring Bonnie Shaw and Lauren Hemp implies that City are back to their best. And it is really, really good to see.

Yeah. And by the way, you're in good company on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly because we always get our predictions wrong. So already you've got a big tick next to you. No shots on target, Chris, for Manchester United. Where did it go wrong? They didn't know how to deal with Manchester City. And they just looked a bit disjointed.

Not really sure why. But, you know, I'm definitely here for it. Not a fan of Manchester United. Sorry, Man United fans. But yeah, I mean, City just looked really impressive. And I, you know, I would say that Kirsten Kasperi is arguably the player of the season so far. You know, like that ball that she played in, but just her kind of work rate, her activism, love it. You know, all of that.

But Manchester United just, there was an opportunity for them there to kind of sort of cement where they had a good start to the season. But they just didn't come out of the traps, really. I'm not entirely sure why I'd love to hear what others think. but they just didn't look right. But also, Manchester City just properly put them to the sword exactly as Aisha just said. When Lauren Hemp is playing like that, when Kirsten Kaspirai is playing like that,

when you play any kind of ball, like the balls that are playing into the box when you've got Boney Shore on the end of them, it's like terrifying. The fact that she didn't score four more was, you know, is probably the biggest surprise. I love Kirsten Kaspirai so much. I interviewed her a couple of times

and she's just the most wonderful human being in like so many ways. and obviously her advocacy is incredible. On United, I think, like, the Champions League and the depth of their squad is the key issue, right? Like, they played, what, three days before, two days before, something like that. So the turnaround, I probably only had one trading session before that game. The turnaround was really tight,

and they have not strengthened enough in the summer for competitions. Like, that's the reality. Like, the club have rested on their laurels a little bit. we've got Champions League football so we're fine which I think is a similar problem to what Arsenal have had we've won the Champions League so we're fine and like squad issues and in the case of United squad depth hasn't been addressed properly

so you've got tired players going into this game you know obviously various substitutions throughout to try and inject some energy but when you're playing against such a deadly city side you're going to be punished and I think to your point originally Susie, the fact that Manchester City aren't in the Champions League is probably the reason why they absolutely should win the league this season as well

because they've got all of the, you know, they've got all week to prepare and you could see it. So I think you're bang on there. Yeah, and this is where our predictions were correct at the start of the season actually because we thought this would be the case. And one of the things that we flagged was the fact Manchester United hadn't really bolstered their squad that much. and Mark Skinner pointed to the need for them to strengthen in January in his post-match interviews. He said, we deserved it. We gave City those goals.

It wasn't like they dominated us. That's the scary thing. He still thinks that they can catch them. This is the Manchester United manager talking about a Manchester City side. I don't see anything exceptional with them. What we need to do is use the winter window to recruit the people we need to help support this team. Big message up to the boardroom there. Let's see whether or not he actually gets that.

because in terms of their title hopes, their third and seven points off the top, that's a lot to catch up with, particularly in this league, as we know. Quick thought on this, because he also said in his post-match that in-match interviews need to be scrapped. He was getting lined up to do one when Rebecca Canack scored. So he wasn't particularly happy that he was distracted. He said, there was a moment today when I'm on the headset and we're not using it. I'm listening to commentary and the goal goes in and I can't do anything.

We have to refine the processes and the timings of it. This is in reference, by the way, to the new broadcast contract that came out at the beginning of the season where the broadcasters, namely Sky and BBC, can ask in-game interviews. Sky haven't done it yet this season, but the BBC chose to do it in this game. What do we all think on this, Ayesha? Yeah, I mean, the way he kind of said it was almost like, oh, it's because of the in-game interview, I don't know, or at least that kind of became the headline. And I mean, that's just totally wrong, isn't it? United were totally outplayed as we've already touched on. But the in-game interview thing is interesting because there's been mixed reviews about it's good to raise the profile of the game. People want to hear that insight. Personally, I don't feel like it's adding that much. They're not saying anything particularly insightful. They're not exactly going to give us their tactics mid-game, are they? So post-match is just always going to be a bit more useful.

And if they're finding it that frustrating, I don't think we should keep pushing for it. On this occasion, I think he just really wanted to, he wanted to create something else other than the three-nil defeat. But, yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of it. Me either. Can't stand it. I think it's awful, thought it was awful from the off.

I kind of like, I feel a bit mean because I think it's right to experiment and to try new things, right? And I don't mind a bit of experimentation. I don't think this was the place to experiment. Like, half-time interviews, like, I don't like them at all, but I don't mind them trying that. In-game interviews, like, I get that they work in, like, rugby and NFL and things like that. Stop-start games where there are these, like, pauses in play all the time and things like that.

It doesn't work in football, which is a free-flowing game. You can't do it. I thought it was so odd at the start of the season when it was Arsenal, London City, at the Emirates. and I'm watching Jocelyn Pressure mid-match with headphones on facing his back to the pitch because he's on camera, like facing up towards the crowd, doing an interview during play. Like, I think there was like, you know, slight pause for an injury or something. But like a manager should be engaging with their team at that point, right? Like that's when they come over to the sidelines and get a little bit of, you know,

mini-team talk or a bit of tactical or vice or whatever. So I just, I don't agree with it. But I also, like, don't mind people experimenting, generally speaking as well. So, like, I don't want to, like, be too mean on the idea of it. But it's time to go because no one likes it. And I've heard some clubs have said to me that if they were asked, do it, they would refuse. And they would take the fine. Let me just interrupt you right there to ask how you rated your performance with that answer, Susie.

It just destroys the flow. I think our thoughts are replicated all around. It is very tricky. But as you say, I like trying something a little bit different. A bit of bad news. Fallon Tullus Joyce is out with a fractured eye sockets. We wish her at the very best because that was not nice news to hear either. Manchester City got their job done then.

So then the ball switched to Chelsea's court to try and keep that gap tight. But surprise, surprise. And none of us had this this weekend. Gareth Taylor's Liverpool put in a resilient performance and held them to a draw. It finished one all. Beatta Olson cancelling out, Alyssa Thompson's opener. And they were just restricted to one shot on target, Chelsea, which is just, I can't remember ever seeing stats that low for a Chelsea side. Captain Millie Bright was pulled off at half time.

What is going on behind the scenes at Chelsea? Anyone want to give me some insight? It's strange. I mean, I guess no one's jumping in. We don't have the immediate answers of what is going wrong. I think it's always going to be hard when you're a team like Chelsea. You just have that target on your back. And they have this now 34 game unbeaten record in the WSL,

which is incredible on paper. But they don't really want that when it's a draw against Liverpool. They want to be getting those three points. And it was a really interesting one at the weekend because I think it was even just in the sense of it didn't feel like a really big game. it was just kind of like, oh, they're just going to get the job done. And when they didn't, I think I was kind of watching it just ahead of that in North London Derby, which I was at Brisbane Road for. And I was kind of like, what's going on here?

Are they really going to do it? Liverpool going to get their second point of the season against the champions. And I think we have to give a lot of credit to Liverpool because while no one else might have expected them to get anything, they clearly did. And you could see that in the way, like you say, they set up, they really closed Chelsea down, didn't allow them to have any more chances after they got that equaliser. That seemed to be part of the game plan.

Olson getting her third goal in three games. I think she's the first Liverpool player in five years to do that. So that's impressive in itself. But it's a team with Liverpool that although they've only got two points, I think those two points don't necessarily reflect how they've been this season. So it's easy for us to say, oh, Chelsea should have come away with the win there. but Liverpool have been a bit unlucky earlier on in the season.

So people aren't expecting much and good for them. They've got that really important point and they've shut Chelsea down. Yeah, and Garretella will be delighted with that. He was obviously proud of his team. I think what we've done today is pretty remarkable, of course, on any given day,

you can also win that game and games can go your way, but we've had to work tremendously hard today to get something from it. It's nice the girls get a little bit of a reward for that. It was an impressive performance, actually. three and three for the Sweden striker Olson.

What a deadline day signing she's been and perhaps this is the turning point for them, Chris. I mean, I completely agree with everything that Aisha said and what I thought was interesting was that as I was watching their goal, I was like, that's exactly what you need to do to Chelsea because that's the way to do it is to beat them for pace and she said it off post-match. She said, we know they're slow.

So that's exactly what they were looking for. as soon as that ball came through you were just like there's no way anyone is going to catch her and actually it was exactly as they should be playing against that back line I think what's interesting is that if you've got Lauren James on the bench

and you need something I was surprised not to see her come on I think Sam Kerr was rested so again there's something about resting on your laurels there a bit because actually you know you go to there thinking exactly Liverpool the bottom of the table

Chelsea went there for a gimmee and didn't get it. But to Aisha's point, thinking about what they've played like so far, actually it doesn't necessarily reflect how they've played. You know, Spurs beat them recently. And it was a bit of a get out of jail free, actually, that game. You know, we managed it was a bit of a smash and grab. And if you've been paying attention to that, you wouldn't just go there thinking,

I were going to win this. So it was interesting for Chelsea. And Aisha's points had bang on. It's like 34 games unbeaten. and you don't want that to become an albatross and it's just to be draw after draw or just nicking a game here and there. But it's exciting

the things that you want to see is, you know, the bottom of the league team playing Chelsea and putting them to the sword nearly. It's taken a while because the table has been very, very top heavy and bottom heavy hasn't it? All season so I'm glad that that gap is starting to close

a little bit and you know, really Lauren James came on barely touched the ball. She doesn't really, it feels like lit this season up just yet. Hannah Hampton's out until the end of the year. Solivia Peng was in goal. So, you know, it felt perhaps a little bit disjointed for Chelsea. And a bit of a theme of their season at the moment, it feels, Susie, because they get a fast start and an early goal, but then they can't quite consolidate their lead. Is that complacency or just not putting their foot on the accelerator

and being as kind of ruthless as we've seen them be in the past? What do you think it is? Oh, I agree with what's been said so far, like loads of credit to Liverpool because I look at the table at the moment and I look at Liverpool and West Ham at the bottom there and I think neither of those team are going to be in that position at the end of the season. Like I'm not actually worried about either of them.

I think they're both going to be all right. Liverpool are doing some good things. And if they get a little bit of money in the summer to make some signings, then I think they'll do well. They've been really unlucky with some results. in recent weeks. As Chris said, the Spurs game and their game since then

against Brighton was, I think, unlucky with the draw too. So Chelsea haven't been great this season as a whole, right? Like, that's the reality is they're not playing amazing football and they didn't last season either, right? They won a domestic treble

despite not actually playing that great, lovely looking football. I'd argue that Arsenal were, like, played the more attractive football points last season, but just lacked consistency and obviously had the really crap start. I did an interview with Millie Bright about her work with the Chelsea Foundation over

loneliness over sort of the winter period. And I asked her about sort of like whether things felt like they were clicking more this season than last because, you know, those performances weren't that great last season. And she said, like she thinks that people can really, really underestimate how long it takes for a group of players to properly gel on the pitch. And I don't think they've got there yet. I just like, don't think they've quite, they've quite got there yet. And then, you know, the injuries and the changes and stuff to the start on 11 aren't quite working. And every other team has raised up a level. So you're having to meet the expectations and level of last season and go higher

without having necessarily kind of clicked in the way that you would like it. And we all know that they want the Champions League, don't we? So, you know, no surprise really that the focus goes a little bit more on that. We talked about fixture scheduling the other week. and I know it was an international men's window. However, I'm not fully on board with two big derbies going on on the same weekend because it was also the North London Derby

and it finished Tottenham-Nil, Arsenal-Nill. I'm going to default to the Spurs and Arsenal fans in a second, but I'm going to go to the neutral in Aisha first because you were at Brisbane Road at the weekend. What did you make of the game overall? I think there's two elements. to this game. Arsenal have just not been at their best, but equally, Spurs just bought really hard, showed so much passion. And I think that word passion with Spurs was something that was

lacking so much last season. And Martin Ho, whatever he has done with that team, he's injected passion. He even said in his post-match to us that he let Beth England do that post-match team talk just because there was so much passion from her and the team. And he felt like, that was the right thing to do. And I think that is ultimately what gets you over the line in those games. You know, it wasn't the best watch. I won't lie. But for Spurs, what a valuable point that is to draw against their North London rivals.

Only the third time they've taken anything from that tie. It was really, really good to see that from Spurs. There seemed like a team totally transformed. But with Arsenal, there are problems we cannot. ignore. There were no real clear-cut chances, you know, trying to write a sort of matroporn. You're going, what do you write about here? Olivia Smith came off the bench at half-time, really injected energy. But that's kind of all you can say about it. She was putting some good crosses in, but nobody on the end of them. René Slegger's has been experimenting with this

Russo and Steiner up front. Not really sure how well that's working in the sense of not really neither of them are really going for it and there doesn't seem to be that out-and-out striker that they just seem to need to actually find the net and yeah the creativity is just really, really lacking actually at the moment and yeah, it wasn't great from Arsenal. I'm going to let Susie formulate her rant while I go to a very proud-looking Chris Powross

who had a little bit of smug face sitting there listening to the praise being heaped on her side. And I think it is always important. We always tend to default to the bigger team and what it means for them in the context of the title race. But actually, you know, Spurs have been brilliant this season, Chris. We've piled a lot of love on your team. What is going on behind the scenes that is really, really making the difference, do you think? I think Hayesha's touched on it there. There's definitely been a mindset shift, and I don't think you can underestimate that. And the way I've been thinking about it is that there's much more of a Beth England mindset. throughout the team. You know, she is a winner, and you can see her absolute desire every time she's on that pitch, but also how frustrated she is when it's not exactly as she wants it. And previously, there's been a little bit of we've been happy to sort of turn up and play

some nice football, but actually that mindset shift has is kind of throughout the team now. You know, you heard Martin Ho after the match talk about energy, work rate, commitment and desire. And those things are really what this team is actually demonstrating on a weekly basis. You know, Renee Slager's saying they've changed from last season. You're absolutely right, Renee, we absolutely have. And I think from a sort of a cultural angle in terms of the team psychology, this kind of performance really matters. You know, it was a derby, it's a tough opponent and walking away unbeaten

and not conceding builds belief. But the one thing I really did want to, you know, and I was thinking about this before she got the player of the match, by the way, is like full-on Drew Spence appreciation. You know, she's technical, she reads the game well, she's a proper competitor, she's really benefited from whatever the sort of training regimen is because her fitness is unbelievable.

She's so talented, works hard, and she's really critical for us. For me, she's the first name on the team sheet, although I think Toko Koga's pretty high up there as well. And I think, you know, all of the discourse, exactly as you've just said as well, Faye, was that Arsenal weren't great. But I think there's something about

that we actually had it was a proper contained performance. You know, the fact that Mariana Caldente didn't really do very much, given what a kind of incredible creative player she is, is unbelievable. The one thing I will say is that we do need a bit more creativity and the forwards

to be more brave. And I think Martin Hoes sort of alluded to that as well. And as much as I love Leonard Gunning Williams, when you see Leonard Gunning Williams coming on and Chloe Kelly at the same time. You realise there's a bit of a gulf in terms of the squad depth, as we were just saying. But, you know, our new CEO who has come from Arsenal, Vinay Van Kathschum, he was very clear at the fan forum and he's been on record talking about it that the January transfer window

is going to be a big deal for us. So I think there's some real intent there as well. So, you know, I'm excited. I'm excited. And I think, you know, Martin Ho has really shifted that mind. set and, you know, thinking about the way that we play. And I think that, you know, good things are for, you know, what Champions League here we come, why not?

Yeah, without a doubt. Interesting, because already some questions in the January transfer window about who they might be going for. And producer Sof is telling me they're heavily linked with Norway's young star Cygnet Gap set. I don't know whether I've pronounced that right. If I haven't, I apologise to all Norwegian fans out there. as you know, my pronunciations are utterly terrible.

Susie, the platform is yours, but I want to lead into it by saying what Rennie Slegger said post-match. A club like Arsenal wants and needs to win. So it's a frustrating period, but we still see enough to keep building on. How do you go positive with this? You go positive by praising Spurs. Because I completely agree with everything, I should and Chris say. It was incredible, like, well-organised, defensive performance.

Not a huge amount of clear-cut chances for Tottenham either. But I don't mean that's a problem, right? Like they've got this like really solid base to build upon. Like you now go out and add that creativity that is going to, you know, kind of find Beth England more and kind of get those opportunities further forwards. But that base at the back, I mean, Togo Coga, what an incredible signing. I'd heard great things when they came in. Martin Ho was like singing her praises in our sort of preseason meetings.

media day and I was really quite excited to see how she did and like the way she settled in is like stunning. I've got a great song for her by the way so I can say it. Yes, please. We need the song. Arsenal's problems as I alluded to earlier when we were talking about Man United is I think a complacency in the summer in the you know I think there was a bit of a recognition that the squad last season needed a little bit of an overhaul and the champions league win then sort of of almost kind of whitewashes over that a little bit and paints a prettier picture than is perhaps there on the state of the squad and sort of what needs to happen.

And obviously you bring in Olivia Smith, which is a great signing, a big money and blah, blah, blah, but like they haven't replaced Leiavorty adequately, which is now why they've got this weird midfield sort of double pivot with Cooney Cross and Caldente this time, pull over and Caldente previously. You're playing Caldente too deep. You've got Russo in the number 10, mean, Steena is because you need some kind of like someone further forward as a part of

that midfield free. Then you've got Blackstinious in front of her. And in playing both Rousseau and Blackstinious, I mean, they've tried it a lot this season. It's not worked, right? Like it worked against Leicester. And most things should work against Leicester, no offence to Leicester. But one of the things you really lose with that, which was a key part of their campaign last season, was having Black Stinius come off the bench and impact a game and stretch a defence.

And they don't have that direct centre forward. threat off the bench anymore, which I think is a big, big problem. And then obviously you've got the lack of leadership in Kim Little and Leo Williamson, but you should not be reliant on two players to bring the heat to the side, right? Like, to bring that fight and battling spirit. Like, it should be through all of these players. Like, Renee Sleggers, like, yeah, the heat is on a little bit. But I also, like, I mean, I would, like, she won us to champion's league, like, as a fan, I'd let her relegate us and, like, I'd still build a statue, you know? Like, I'd, I love her. So, like, I think she's bought herself a lot of time, but also I think a lot of

the blame has to lie with the lack of, like, lack of proper business in the summer. And that has to fall with the higher ups. It falls with her a little bit. Obviously, she's got to really push for those changes. I don't know if that's happened or not. They really need to turn over that squad a little bit and start to build something that is a bit fresher and is going to challenge. And then we have to have better backup at, um, cent a half and we don't have our captain we need. I would say if we're going to play both Russo and Blacksnees, we need another centre forward. I just think there's so many issues there. I think it's going to be a really fascinating transfer window in January because there are so many

teams that really need to bolster their ranks so there could be a bit of a scrap on for players to come into the league. Right, that's it for part one of the Guardian Women's Football weekly in part two. We're going to look at the other games from the weekend and talk England as well with a squad announcement on the horizon. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, what a memorable afternoon in Dagenham, said no one ever. No, I'm joking. West Ham finally securing their first win of the season to lift them off the bottom of the table.

It finished West Ham three. Everton won. Anuk Denton, Amber Tisiac, and Shakira, Marston. Artineers opening up a comfortable lead for the hosts. Katchez-Snois scored the consolation for the visitors in the end. You've got to go back to the 27th of April for West Ham's last win in the league, Chris. It's felt like it's been coming in recent weeks, but how exactly did they pull Everton apart?

And we could have got Marva on this week. That would have been even worse than getting her on last week. They look really well drilled. And that's what Rian Skinner was talking about. about post-match. And I also think they use those wide areas to really stretch the Everton backline. And, you know, giving Shakira Martinez space

is exactly what you want to be doing. So I think the first goal was kind of fell quite nicely for Anuk Denton. But I think that's what you've got to do is kind of take those chances, particularly when, as you said, you know, it's been building and they haven't quite managed it. And then you've just got to put someone to the sword.

And I think they managed to do that against Everton. and I was surprised at Everton actually they just didn't have much in response and usually they've got a bit more of something about them but I guess it just wasn't their day I tell you what West Ham were properly in the mood that's why it wasn't their day Aisha 19 chances created six shots on target

three different goal scorers is this what's going to kickstart their season yeah I think so I mentioned it about Liverpool earlier as well that they kind of are a team not reflecting their points I think West Ham have been unlucky at times as well this season and yeah I think it's really important for them to have shown the fact that they can score goals it wasn't just a close win and if you want to be not getting in that bottom spot this season

you've got to be beating those teams like Everton and the ones who might also be in trouble this season so yeah beating them so convincingly was really impressive and it's really good to see Shakira Martin as scoring again because I was singing her praises. I'm sure everyone was, you know, from January when she sighed at West Ham. It felt like she really transformed that West Ham side, which actually they were struggling up until that point as well last season. And she was brilliant. And this season we've not really seen the same. And I really hope that this gives her some confidence to go on and be that player. She won player of the month. She was the first ever West Ham player to get that. And then she did it back to back. And I just really hope that this gives her more confidence to go on

and show just how good she can be and hopefully what she can do for Rianne's skinn's side. Yeah, we waxed lyrical about Kelly Gargo the last couple of weeks, Susie, but she's out with a hamstring injury and you could tell how much Everton missed her. They're a totally different team. It was a horrible afternoon for Brian Sorenson. Yeah, and he was quite beleaguered afterwards, I think,

in his post-match about the injury problems. that they've got and, you know, kind of, I almost thought it was a little bit unintentionally throwing under the bus seat of his starting 11 in that he sort of said on the BBC that they had to work with what they've got kind of thing. And it was like a little bit like, like, this isn't the best starting 11 that I want. And then he went and said he sort of like backtracked and was like, oh, squad is really good though. And it's like, yeah, you kind of like leaked out your slight true feelings there about the state of things at the moment. So obviously they're in a little bit of trouble.

They just look a little bit lacking all over, particularly in, you know, we talked about it with Spurs, right? Like that desire piece isn't really there at the moment. And I am quite worried for them. Them and Lester, I actually think, are in more trouble than West Ham and Liverpool this season, who have put in performances that give you kind of, like, you can see the green shoots from, right? Like, you can see the potential.

And at the moment, you can't really see that in the same way with Everton and Lester. for me. Yeah, they've been pulled right back into the relegation zone, so worrying times for Everton fans. Worrying times for Leicester fans as well, because Brighton obviously haven't really had the greatest start to the season. They had that draw with Liverpool last time out, but it was a comprehensive 4-1 win over Leicester at the weekend. They've rediscovered their goal-scoring spark at the Amex. Four different goal scorer's, really encouraging signs for Dario Vidazic, especially, Chris, given their injury list in that area. Yeah, absolutely.

I think it was interesting actually because you had three different goal scorers at West Ham as well. And I was like, oh, is everyone going to be a different goal scorer? I think one game, someone scored two goals. I think it was for London City Line. I was like, oh, there goes that theory. You know, that would have, I guess there's a stat there somewhere that you've got a day where everyone's a different goal scorer.

But anyway, look, they just look good. I mean, I know Lester, as Susie's just said, are in trouble, you know, like, They can't seem to sort of find their cohesion, if you like. But, yeah, I mean, Brighton just came out and just said, well, actually, we're going to do this today. We know that you're not very good. And we're just going to, we're coming for you. And that's what they need to be doing because they want to be in amongst it.

You know, we've taught all the other teams we talked about today. There's that middle section, and I know we say it a lot. That middle section is very, very competitive. So somehow you're going to have to, every team's going to have to put less to the sword in the same way, bring up your goal difference and also make sure that you stay in amongst that pack. Yeah, they're going to be gutted as well because another potential injury to Yutter and Tala as well. How do they turn their form around, Susie? I just think things aren't clicking and that I think Passmore is really struggling to get anything from them

and find a style for them that suits the players that they've got. We've said it already. every team needs to bring players in in January, like Lester are no different, but I feel like they need more than anything some players with a little bit of confidence to just change the mood of things at the moment because I think the mood seems quite low.

Like I feel like that confidence piece is really significant and they need to sort of stumble across some kind of like structure and shape that really gets the best out of the players that they've got and capitalises on their sort of individual skill sets as much possible because at the moment it's not quite there and they are, you know, like when you look at the squads across the board it's one of the weakest in the league

and that's a worry. Yeah, and you know, sacking Omanee-McKale, 11 days before the season, probably not particularly helpful in terms of consistency from players and it didn't give Rick Pass more very much time because he was named interim to begin with

and then took a few weeks for them to decide that he was going to be the permanent manager. It's been a very, very disjointed. Just want to give a little bit of a nod to Bryson Keeper, Chiamaca, Nadozi, because really consistent performances from her have been quite impressed. But are you surprised how quickly she's settled into the WSL, Aisha? No, not at all. I mean, yeah, she's been there.

She's been really good. I think Brighton as a whole have been a bit interesting this season. I was saying this at the weekend because not really been short to make of them. You know, last season they just got off to such a flying start that we kind of expected maybe them to reach similar heights this season, but maybe that was a bit of an anomaly last season. And they've been a bit hit and miss this year, I'd say, you're right, the goalkeeper has been, has been great at points, and at the weekend, she was really, really good, really impressive. They've also just lost Michelle Adjamang as well, and I thought that might knock

them a little bit, but still showing that, like you say, four different goal scorer, so can find goals elsewhere. But I think they really need to capitalize on that, because I don't mean they've done that enough this season, really showing their goal scoring abilities, but been a bit sketchy. There's been quite a few draws. And they've got really good players. You know, Rosa Kaffarge scored that equaliser last weekend. I think they need to do a bit more of that. They've got London City next, I think. And that, to me, is a really exciting fixture because I think that's going to put these two teams, it's going to be a real yardstick for where both of these two teams are. There's that kind of mid chunk that Chris was just talking about

and who's actually going to come out on top in that one. It's a really good test for London City in that sense because against those top teams they had struggled earlier on in the season but they're coming into their stride and then we'll talk about them shortly. But for Brighton as well, I think this result can hopefully be a turning point

in their season two to hopefully keep pushing and show what they're made of. Yeah, it's a really interesting point because Aston Villa had started to turn their form around a little bit and then income London City lionesses. and that train just keeps rumbling on. Their fifth win of the season, 3-1 in the end, ruining Chris Powross's accumulator that she'd never put on,

Zaki Kumagai and a goal for Isabel Goodwin as well. Kirstie Hansen did score for Villa to make it 1-1 in the first half, but Jocelyn Prashe's side just kept going. Where was this game won for them, Susie? First off, I need to do a little bit of a defence. of journalists because at the start of the season we were absolutely murdered for just repeating like what a few people had said in stuff about them being disruptors to the league right like because they had a bad start when they played arsenal and united and like you know some of

the bigger teams and lost those games quite significantly and i think every journalist that was talking about them as disruptors was a talking about them as disruptors in a sort of more off the pitch sense in that they're coming in with a big spend and a different way of doing things exactly and like big ambitions right like coming up with more money than

any promoted side has ever come up with so no one was expecting them to go and like get Champions League or win the league but I think we were all thinking that across the course of the season they've got a great manager they've got great players that they will not be towards the bottom of that table and now they're in sixth

and they've got five wins like I'm not being funny but like that is unsurprising and like the heat that we took online on socials and things over like just daring to say that they were disruptors which again like I say was in an off the pitch sense anyway but that they might actually have a decent season in their first year in WSL was slaughtered so I'm to ask my little offence pressure is a good manager right like he knows what he's doing they're well organised isabel Goodwin is finding her feet in the attack you know she was so prolific in the championship And it's really, really great to see her carry that through when the squad had such a high turnover with their big spend that they kept with her and believed in her and is still starting her and playing her and she's still scoring for them.

And I really like, I'm glad about that. And then it's great to see, like me, Saki Kuma guy has not had, I would say the easiest start to life in the WSL. Like I think, you know, like she's getting on a bit, a five-time European champion. But like she's reaching the end of her career arguably and, you know, has been a little bit off the pace and stuff and caught out a few times. And, like, so to see her get on score sheet is great. They're creative. They're, like, they're dynamic. They've got a structure.

They've got a good manager. And, yeah, like, they've got a great, great squad at their disposal with a lot of talent that can make things happen when things aren't going that well as well. Like, that's the difference, right, between, say, them and a Leicester or in Everton is right. They've got a very, like, invested in strong squad that allows them to do things that surprise us. Or don't, as the case may be for us. Basavara Aslani is the two words that I've got, you know, she was running everything and caught the corners, the set pieces, you know, I think three of the goals were from corners, were they? And, you know, her delivery was like bang on every time. You know, you were talking about Kim Little's 35, she's 36. And I mean, she belies that, you know, she was, she completely bossed the midfield and she bossed it last week against Spurs as well. I was just watching her in awe, to be fair. Can I just say, having celebrated my birthday at the weekend, my most hated phrase has getting on a bit.

I can't. Ouch. Sorry, I'm getting on a lot. I'm getting on a lot. I just took a, whew, when Susie said that. Honestly, Faye, I've had a lot of, like, I get a lot of online abuse, like, regularly. And the, like, it just brushes over me most of the,

time you know it's like trolling water like you know goes over my head one the one that really annoyed me was when someone called me a 40 plus journalist and I turned 40 next year and that was last year and it still rankles me like I'm I'm not 40 plus I'm not even 40 yet I'm I mean I'm going to be and I'm not looking forward to it but I am not 40 plus can I just say there is nothing wrong with being 40 plus at all prime of life I have to say Kosovares Lani will still be playing 40 plus telling you. There you go. I hope Kim Little is too. I really do. Bang on, bang on. Right, let's not talk about age. Although we are going to talk about it in a minute because we're going to talk about Halo and targets for brands who look at women's sports fans differently. We'll discuss that in a sec. But Champions League continues this week. Manchester United is third in the league after that impressive win over PSG at Old Trafford. Chelsea 4th in the league table. to a 6-0 win over St. Poulton

while Arsenal are flirting with missing out on the knockout stage after their capitulation in Munich. So they're not even going to have Champions League as a justification for a dodgy league season. Manchester United on the road to face two times winners Wolfsburg next.

Arsenal are in must-win territory and of course they're hosting Rail Madrid as well. A big one for Chelsea too. Oh, massive. Hosting Barcelona at Stamford Bridge. Looking to put many ghosts of seasons passed to bed. It's almost time for the final international break of the year.

Serena Vigman's naming her squad later today for the lioness's upcoming friendlies against China and Ghana. No Alex Greenwood, but Lauren Hemp should return. We're not going to focus too much on this because obviously the squad announcement will have gone out by the time this pod goes out. But are we expecting any surprises, Susie? I don't think any major surprises.

I think it will all be informed by injury and that will determine who comes in. I'd like to see Lucia Kendall again. Obviously, she did so well last time. I know a lot of the players really, really rate her and were really, really, really impressed with her, like in training and in games. I personally wouldn't call up Lauren James.

I don't think she's ready, like still coming back to fitness at club level, but maybe they want her in the environment. So that for me would be both a little bit of surprise, but also not. But, yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see what it looks like. It's also going to be the first time, obviously, Serena's spoken since Mary Expoena's book came out,

So we'll hear her thoughts on sort of the comments in that too, which I think will be really interesting. So, yeah, more to come. I think that is going to be the headline. So I look forward to dissecting that next week. I do feel like we're a little bit late to the Halo party, which actually, I mean, the police have been and raided it and closed it down forever now. Because Sky Sports have decided to shut down the new female fan-focused TikTok channel that they launched after receiving backlash. It was described as the little sis of Sky Sports and heavily criticised for sexism and dumbing down sports for women. Our intention for Halo, they said, was to create a space alongside our existing channel for new young female fans.

We've listened, we didn't get it right. As a result, we're stopping all activity on this account. Thoughts, first and foremost, I'm going to pile in a little bit because I don't want to pile in because there has been a pile on. And I don't like a pile on because going back to one of Susie's points earlier on today, I do like it

when people try something a little bit different. But I just don't quite understand. And there's two strings to this. Number one is women's sports fans. And number two is women and girls, right? Not all women's sports fans are women and girls,

first and foremost. And you don't necessarily have to pitch any sport, men's are or women's sport, differently, to women and girls either. So two strands to that, but I'm going to let somebody else jump on the old soapbox, Susie. As I said earlier, I am all for experimentation and I think this is demographic, right? Like men and women that every single news, sports news organisation is trying to engage with football, is trying to engage with two, this sort of like 16 to 24 demographic, right? Like they don't consume news in the way that we produce.

produce it. They don't, they're not looking on the websites. They're not reading the newspapers. They're not even watching Sky Sports on telly. Like, right? So I get that every single outlet is trying to find a way to engage those young people. And I think it's right that they do that. And I think we all need to work on how we do that. I think this was so wide of the mark of how you do that. I mean, for one, the fact that I thought it was dated and I'm, as we've said, nearly 40. And I'm going, it's literally like the meme of Steve Buscemi with the skateboard and the baseball cap on going hello fellow kids like that is the vibe I got from it

as a near 40 year old like and I mean I have a 12 year old son so I'm a little bit in tune to sort of like teen you preteen teen youth culture a little bit like my understanding is that and I think they also mentioned this statement that it was a team of sort of young female sky sports journalists that were tasks with putting this and sort of giving free rein to do what they wanted Now, I agree with that. I think that's a good thing to do.

But you have to sense-check those things against and with your existing staff who are covering this stuff day in, day out and can actually, like, say, look, you cannot call it little sis. Like, there's just a few things they could have done just to shift the tone of it a little bit that I think would have made it potentially successful, right? Like, the way it was done was just really poor. And I feel quite sorry for the journalists. I'm not actually spoken to any of them who work on Sky covering women's football and women's sports generally

who probably would have felt quite embarrassed by that so like I am for trying to engage this demographic but a lot of their stuff they interact with happens organically and grows organically

and trying to like kind of insert into that and like script it just doesn't really work and then also it didn't really make sense from a sporting point of view as well like Harlins with that weird matcher thing like was the relationship there like make the football content make sense as well you know

hot girl walks barbies and all sorts my goodness me but actually i don't think a lot of people were consulted and i think that is part of the problem i also think part of the problem is when they almost came out in defence of it said but it was you know an all-girl team putting it together i'm like how is that not wrong in itself we want you know that's almost like saying women to women's sports, men stick to men. That's essentially going, yeah, only women can work on this content for women and only men can work on the content for men. And that is dangerous. Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you. I think they're not the only round, by the way, getting this thing wrong, whether it's, you know, aiming it at young female sports fans or

young female or something else. It feels to be almost across the board there's a lot of things going wrong. I guess we would have hoped that in the sport sense we've learnt a lot over the years and this like you say just feels like so many steps back, which I think was what made it so disappointing, a bit upsetting actually, because you're going, this is from one of the biggest broadcasters in the country and this is really flying the flag for women's sport, for women in sport, for women's fans and it's like, wow, this is just missed the mark so much. How is that what you really believe but I think we have to see it as a learning you know there's been so many memes and I think maybe we needed the memes to make it just so obvious how ridiculous it was you know the ones of like

oh I can't understand the offside rule unless it's in pink sparkly writing which was casparized girlfriend which is what I love as well yeah exactly makes it even better it's just those things just making for some people who might not have immediately thought why is this wrong or whatever they now the memes are almost like explaining it in the most basic of senses and making it so obvious to understand just how, how wrong this was. So if I can add my two tuppenceworth at the end here, I think to your first point, Fay, I think the conflating women's interest in sport with women's sport is the first issue. But I don't think Sky aren't the only ones that do that.

Everyone does that. And that's frustrating because they're two different, they are two very different things. I think you've got to give Sky credit exactly, as Susie said, for trying to think about women audiences reaching new and younger women. That really matters. That innovation is important. But the problem was the execution. We don't need a pig filter. We're here. We're here doing this. We already watch, analyze, love sport. So when you launch something for women fans, but frame it with stereotypes, you're not serving inclusion. You're reinforcing those inequalities. You know, I live and breathe football, for example. So a Harlem finish next to Match your Hot Girl walk or

whatever it was, feels random and inauthentic. Why that goal? Why that tone? And if you're a young woman who's new to the sport, you're not suddenly going to get hooked because that goal is paired with a meme. So it doesn't bring you any closer to understanding why football's exciting and it misunderstands what makes people fall in love with sport in the first place. And, you know, you ask at the top, Faye, why are so many brands sort of failing to connect in this, you know, with women audiences around women's sports? And, you know, I've been very very far. thinking while we've been talking, I think there's a number of things. They often start from the wrong assumptions. So the assumptions that we somehow need sports, soften, simplified or

made approachable. You design for a mythical woman fan rather than real ones. Exactly as we've all just said, there's a lot of stuff already out there. So look at what's already being created by women who are interested in sport. Look at what's being created around women's sport. You know, there's already a diverse audience with really deep knowledge and strong loyalties. Right, the 2025 NWSL Championship is set. Washington Spirit and Gotham FC coming head to head for the title next Sunday in San Jose. Last year's runner-up spirit saw off Portland Thorns 2-0. 2023 champions Gotham FC Minow won, but their spot with a 1-0 win over Orlando Pride.

A 97th minute finish from Jaden Shaw for that one. And Vancouver Rise made history on Saturday. They won the first Northern Super League championship beating AFC Toronto 2-1. to lift the inaugural Diana B. Matheson Cup. Right, we've just about got time for an email from Raphael. Dear Fay, dear Guardian Women's Football Weekly podcast panel, and what a panel we have today. Thank you, Raphael.

As always, thanks for your podcast, commuting on Tuesday and or Wednesday morning, always much more fun than the rest of the week. I mentioned Olivia Peng in my email last week when I was wondering what exactly she was hoping for at Chelsea. I guess that's now irrelevant. At least it will be until December, even though she didn't really score points in Liverpool today. However, the third Chelsea goalkeepers,

even more of a question mark in my mind. Why on earth did Becky Spencer decide to sign a permanent deal with Chelsea to spend all four competitions on the bench, whereas she was a starter for spurs, if memory serves right? Is the golf in terms of money between Chelsea and Tottenham that huge, especially since she's a Jamaica international, and I'm not sure she can keep being called up if she never gets any minutes at club level?

Really good question, which I'll pose in a sec, but let me also mention. This is what else he says. On a somewhat unrelated note, I've come up with a WSL bingo card. It is attached. I love this. For the rest of the season.

And since I don't know many people here in Switzerland who would know what I'm referring to, I thought I'd share it with people who might enjoy it. No offence intended as far as the pronunciation square is concerned. All in good fun. I expect that that is pointed

at the fact that I get pronunciations wrong all the time. I'll tell you what, Raphael. We'll go through the bingo card next week. Let's talk about Becky's. Spencer, Chris Powers, I think, is well served to answer that question. I think Becky is now living her best life. I think she wasn't happy towards her, the end of her time at Spurs. And I think for whatever those reasons are, you know, she's an incredible player.

She's a brilliant woman. And actually, you know, you're coming towards the end of your career. Actually, go and have, go and enjoy it. Go and kind of impart your knowledge and wisdom onto arguably. onto England's number one for however many years to come and be winning things. Why not? And she's an integral part of the squad, even if she's going to be on the bench for all four competitions.

She's an integral part of that squad. And I know Becky a little bit. I don't know her very well, but I can see how much she's enjoying it. So I just say good for her, frankly. Why not finish your career in that way? Love it. Brilliant. Excellent. And the bingo card is immense, by the way.

I've just got my eyes on it, 30, 30 bingo numbers within there. I'm going to go through them next week. It's beautifully branded as well. Maybe a branding job for Raphael in women's sport is coming his way. Panel, it's been a delight. Dr Chris, you have been wonderful as always. See you soon. Lovely to see you.

Aisha, brilliant debut. Lovely to see you. Thanks so much for having me. Susie, I hope you get better and I hope I see you for London. on Wednesday. Yeah, I'm off to like crawl into a hole and like try and cover Serena Vigman's press conference not in person because I don't want to infect everyone on the planet. I actually thought you sounded great.

Your voice stayed and I wouldn't have known you were ill unless you'd said. So well done. By the way, just like Raphael, keep having your say, send in your questions via X or email us at Women's Football Weekly at the Guardian.com. We read every single one. So please make sure you do send us them. And as ever, a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts sign up.

The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura Airedale. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard. Upside inside out, live in La Tococca. She'll push and pull you round. Live in La Tococca. This is The Guardian.