The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Team GB’s Olympic hopes hang in balance – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Faye Carruthers, Suzanne Wrack, Marva Kreel and Tom Middler wrap up all the Nations League action and check in on events across the continent

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it's not just clothing and shoes. You can get cash back from over 750 stores on electronics, holiday travel, home decor, and more. It's super easy. And before you buy anything, always go to Rakuten first. Join free at rakuten.ca. Start shopping and get your cash back sent to you by check or PayPal. Get the Rakuten app or join at rakuten.ca. R-A-K-U-T-E-N dot C-A. This is The Guardian. do not write the lionesses off. A come-from-behind win at Wembley against the Netherlands has left Team GB's Olympic dream alive, but it's still not in their hands. We'll look ahead to the crucial final Nations League match against Scotland at Hampden Park.

Outrageous and disrespectful are the words coming out of the Scottish camp with questions over the integrity of the competition. Meanwhile, as women's football in England moves into a new era, we'll discuss all the latest, check in on the European leagues, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel, the only phone engineered by Google and official mobile phone

of Arsenal Football Club, Liverpool Football Club and the England teams. Google Pixel is helping fans get closer to the game they love with access to fresh content and never before seen footage of their favourite players and teams. The new Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro are fast and secure with the most advanced Pixel cameras yet. And Google AI powers amazing features for photos and video so you can get even closer to the game. Search Google Store to find out more. What a panel we have today. The party animal Susie Rack. Did you not miss me too much at Wembley last week? Oh, it was like just not the same.

Wembley is not the same without you, Faye. Well, yeah, I know. They'll put a statue up of me soon. That's what I'm being told through the grapevine. They need to. Marva Creel. I mean, you must be absolutely buzzing in England and an Everton win this weekend. You must be loving life. Not a bad weekend for me, and it's not one that I usually get, so I'm savouring every last minute of it. Yes, I don't

blame you. Tom Midler, all the way from Austria. It's been a while. How are you? It has, yeah, I'm really well, thanks. I wasn't sipping pints at the FSAs last night, so I'm feeling fresh. I'm feeling healthy. Good to be back on. Yes, well, I'm also feeling fresh and healthy. Let's see how Susie and Marva get on the pair of them. Where else to start but Wembley in a remarkable second half turnaround as the Lionesses fought back from two goals down to win 3-2 against the Netherlands courtesy of a 91st minute goal from super sub Ella Toon.

The Dutch, you'll remember, had raced into a 2-0 first half lead with Lyneth Bierenstein punishing defensive errors but England came roaring back in the second half. Two goals in two minutes from Georgia Stanway and Lauren Hemp before Toon capped off the dramatic comeback, slotting home Lauren James' perfect cross.

Susie, absolute scenes under the Wembley arch in front of 71,000 fans. Talk us through it if you can. Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, a hugely impressive comeback, but also sort of like

almost complete failure of England's own making because i mean literally the first 10 minutes you're sitting there thinking wow they're going to walk this like they all over the dutch camped in their half dominating possession creating chances um and you thought you know this is only going to go one way and then same old story um we're caught on the break and berenstein gets one and it just utterly swings that first half the netherlands way so the concerning thing for me was the manner of the collapse and how quickly that first half changed after those 10 minutes of dominance and the impact of that goal because yeah i just eng, like a shell of a side, they had been for that 10 minutes and, you know,

as we've seen previously, and the second goal was a real sucker punch. But yeah, different case in the second half, different beast. England haven't yet lost at Wembley. So that's, you know, obviously, you know, quite motivating for them. They're not completely sort of adverse to coming from behind you know they've done it before so it was impressive it was you know a little bit gutting that you know both goals I mean you could have said that the one that led to the first there should have been a quarter kick

given instead of a goal kick you could have said for the second that she was probably offside but I mean you also should say that defensively England should be doing so much better than they are and you can really feel the lack of Millie Bright and Leah Williamson obviously long term and I think they're sort of paying a little bit of the price for there not being that much tinkering with sort of the starting 11 and the sort of main key subs off the bench so that when you have players like Jess Carter and you know Esme Morgan and players like that coming in or Niamh Charles they've not had a huge amount of football in this team and I think that's a little bit of a problem. Yeah you were there as well Marva and it did feel like they did it the

hard way but your tweet at half time yeah it's over. This team needs a proper summer off and a reset. I can't tell you how many times I ate my words during that game. I was like going back and forth between, it's fine. I don't even want an Olympics. And it was like, I really want an Olympics. And I'm still in two minds. I don't know which way I want to go. Well, it's one of those weird ones, isn't it?

Because a summer off, you know, you have, certainly the performances that we've seen of late would indicate that a summer off won't be such a bad thing for the Lionesses. But at the same time, it's an Olympics and they're all going to be desperate in the back of their minds to have a medal around their neck come the end of it, particularly with what happened at the last Olympics in Tokyo. And it was a disappointing end, really. You watched from a little further afield, Tom, what did you make of the fight Olympics in Tokyo and it was a disappointing end really. You watched from a little further afield Tom what did you make of the fight back in character? I mean it was a fantastic Wembley night basically at the end of it it was just one of those wonderful stories you know listen to the noise when those goals go in and for me it's a real proof of concept for the Nations League which has had a bit of a hammering in some quarters. But I think it really proves that

this could have been a friendly, remember. You know, this could have been basically a dead rubber friendly. Instead, it's turned into pretty much a modern classic of a game. It depends what England go and do now with the platform that they've given themselves. But it was so nice to see

the nature of the goals as well. The fact that the comeback was completed in stoppage time. It was just brilliant. I the nature of the goals as well. The fact that the comeback was completed in stoppage time. It was just brilliant. I just loved it, basically. The noise, the atmosphere. It makes me feel like there's not enough teams at the Olympics to look at the qualifiers. I know only 12 teams are going in there, a couple from Europe.

What a shame it is that, you know, we're battling against, yeah, the Netherlands. Okay, France are in there as hosts. But there's so many good nations that are battling against, yeah, the Netherlands. OK, France are in there as hosts. But there's so many good nations that are missing out, basically, who don't even have a hope of getting to the Olympics. So we're keeping our fingers crossed that England can do it. But yeah, I just don't see why it can't be expanded. It's a little bit late for that now, but it makes me think I want both of those teams at the Olympics. What, you mean another bonkers decision regarding women's football?

Really Tom? How could that happen? I'll tell you what was really difficult to watch Marva. Mary Earp's post-match interview on ITV she was so emotional said she'd really let the team down and that her performance would haunt her for a long time after she let that second goal slip through her hands. It's really sad to see her like that. We're not used to seeing her like that either. And she's her own harshest critic. Completely. Yeah, we're not we're not used to seeing her like that. And maybe it's a case of obviously because she was captain for the game. And so she sort of had to do the media interview so quickly. And it just like you can tell she is a very kind of emotional person when it's on the pitch, which I think a lot of goalkeepers are.

Maybe it was just a case of then in that moment. And it seemed like she's had a lot of people around her, which is good to see, because I think Kira Walsh said in the kind of pre-game conference as well, it's like how many times has Mary-Up saved the rest of the team? You know, she doesn't need to put this on herself. And yes, it was a mistake, but you look at that goal and especially the second one where the mistake was made and there are about five mistakes that happened before that I think you know Jess Carter it's not her fault but she kind of just like whacks the ball doesn't go very far from there there are about five bounces no one really gets to it no one's really tracking the runner so it's like you can break down every single moment like

that and put as much blame on anyone else but you don't want to do that because that's not the point it's not about putting blame on individual people I think when you look at that team at the moment there especially in that first half there is quite a lot of defensive imbalance I think as a whole and we've seen that I think it's kind of like you were both saying at the beginning it doesn't really feel like we've created a second or a new team since the Euros. It's like the Euros team while trying to fit in a few other players. It doesn't really feel like something fresh and new that's kind of fit together yet.

But I think in that second half, once Meade came back on, it kind of felt like things just started to fit into place. And we were seeing that Euros team and hopefully that gives everyone a kind of mental boost, including Mary Earps. Yeah, some real super sub performances, weren't there, Susie? Beth Mead, Alessia Russo, Ella Toon in particular influencing the game. It shows how strong this squad is. Is there anyone in particular you want to single out for praise? Yeah, I mean, I thought Alessia Russo was brilliant. She just completely changed the dynamic of the attack

and lifted a bit of pressure as well because she's able to hold up the ball so well. I think that England need her from the start. I mean, I think Toon is very effective off the bench. I actually think Chloe Kelly has looked a little bit anonymous starting and could probably do with coming off the bench, maybe with Beth Mead starting, because also hugely impactful,

just changing the focus of England's forward play. So, yeah, I mean, that really makes it sound like it's an Arsenal bias, doesn't it? But I wasn't actually thinking that at all. But, yeah, I would like to see those players maybe start from the off, because I think they just offer a little something different. The first half, I wasn't convinced by hemp as the the number nine i understand it you know russo isn't as we've seen sort of start of this season she's most effective perhaps paying a little bit deeper in like sort of the number 10 or fourth nine and she's not a sort of you know a rachel daly or an ellen white you

know she's not a sort of poacher in, a Rachel Daly or an Ellen White. You know, she's not a sort of poacher in that way. Although, you know, she can get you great, great goals. It's her sort of defensive work, her build-up play, the way she holds up the ball. I think England need that in that position. I need a bit of a physical presence too, because that front three of H james and kelly is just quite small i know you know it's sort of hemp drifting wide quite a lot and they're not being anyone in the middle and just you know i found that first half a little bit frustrating from attacking point of view as well as the defensive chaos that there was too just to follow up on marva it's an interesting point

because we had a question from hey dad on x slash twitter whatever the hell it's called uh is Russo more effective in the super sub role felt like it in the euros and again on Friday she seems to play with more verve and even though everyone knows she's coming on at some point she gets the job done yeah I'm not I'm not sure if it's the same as in the euros I think that substitution of sort of 70 minutes or whatever was sort of had a specific tactic to it and I don't think Russo coming on now has that same thing I think in the Euros it was like Ellen White did her job whereas in this case we don't have the Ellen White to do that job and sort of run the defenders tired before Russo comes on and finishes them

off I don't think it's that same use of her as a sub anymore. And I think why she was very good when she came on was one, because we finally had someone just in the middle, which helped. And I think the balance worked really nicely of Meads because she really goes out wide and brought a lot of players with her. I thought Hemp was excellent on the left as well when she moved over to that side. And she's been brilliant all season there as well for City. And then obviously James in the middle was just kind of supplying more creativity and also the whole team.

It just felt like, it does make me think how much of these kind of bad performances recently have been just mental fatigue because it did kind of feel like the moment that they were like, oh, actually we really need to win this. We can't lose this. They're like, oh, all right, come on guys.

Game's over now, come on. The jig is up. Let's do that thing we always do and just win. So, I mean, maybe that's just wishful thinking from me that we don't have these glaring problems that are going to come through later and it's actually just completely mental but yeah I think I think Russo should start for me I think it's less about her as a number nine and it's more about the balance around her and I think in the world cup we didn't have that yet whereas if we've got a bit more balance around her then I think she's probably still the best person to do that job as a number nine even though yeah probably her best position is slightly off of the main

number nine. Listen we've been so spoiled haven't we with the Lionesses performances over the past couple of years that when it's not quite been happening we're all just sitting there going hang on a minute who's this that we're seeing But how do people view us on the continent, Tom? Because they maybe have a different perspective, not watching as critically maybe as we do. Yeah, it's not like people are rubbing their hands together thinking, oh, good, England are going downhill. But I think perhaps from the German perspective, there's an element, maybe some of those bad performances, to put it in inverted commas, or sort of performances that haven't been up to the standards that we've been used to from the Lionesses in the last couple of years. I think there's an element of that which comes from sort of, I don't want to say a post-success period, because England obviously are still in the midst of a great period and still have a great chance to have a lot of success in the next couple of years but I think there's a sense that teams either do one of two things when

things aren't quite going their way having won trophies having reached finals having achieved a lot and either you try a bit too hard and you work too hard and then maybe Serena Wichmann tinkers too much which hasn't really been the case here. Or you go looking for that kind of, there's a really nice German word, Leichtigkeit, this like ease, where you think, oh, but it was also easy. You know, when we got to the final of the World Cup, actually, that wasn't easy, really. We all know that, of course, winning the Euros was anything but easy. But you have this feeling where you're just like, oh, every pass I hit, it just sails onto the target. Every shot is getting, you know, giving a test to the goalkeeper. We're just achieving simply everything's clicking, everything's working. And the Netherlands game was a great

example of this because I think Susie was absolutely right to say England could have been leading maybe in the first 10 minutes. They were dominating the game in the first 10 minutes. It could have been a completely different outcome. So how does Serena Wichman deal with that how do you deal with your choices knowing that maybe we could have actually just won this game anyway very differently but then when you start falling behind things go a little bit wrong you almost get a bit passive you know I think the England team did get a bit passive they're looking for that for that simplicity and thinking where did that go it used to be so easy, you know. And then quite rightly, it was also said England did find that. And, you know, people have sat up

and taken note a little bit that England have done this. They're certainly not dead and buried, as people would like to say on X or Twitter or however they want to put it. But I think people know that England are similarly to maybe Germany in this position where it can sort of go one of two ways from here. But they have not been written off on the continent. You can say that. OK, that's good to know. We'll talk Germany shortly as well. But this is what it means for the group. The Netherlands sit top on nine points with England just behind them on goal difference. Three goals behind, to be precise, which is what sets everything up rather nicely for this evening's matches.

So England need to beat Scotland at Hampden Park and then hope that the Netherlands fail to beat Belgium in Tilburg. Or the Lionesses must win by at least a three goal margin greater than whatever the Netherlands margin of victory is. Add into the equation that obviously Scotland would technically end any hopes of any of their players going to the Olympics as part of Team GB if they manage to stop them from topping the group I mean it's just a really strange situation all round Susie yeah no it's it's really odd but the more the more I think about it the more I think how do you change it because you know I think back to the 2019 World Cup and England and Scotland were drawing in the same group and obviously the World Cup then determined Olympic qualification ultimately two teams plus the host if it was

European three teams if it wasn't would qualify for the Olympics via how well they did at the World Cup. So in a sense, you had that there. Obviously, you know, Olympic qualification in the group stage of the World Cup is not on anyone's mind. So it sort of goes under the radar significantly that that eventually should England reach the final of the World Cup or the last four of the World Cup is, you know, just something that's not on people's radar at all

and no one cares about right because it's just not as important as a world cup and it's only this scenario and this nation's league which isn't taken seriously and considered necessarily as a big tournament yet that we sort of end up in this situation where it's you know the prize is olympic qualification as much as it is a trophy so in that sense it's not that new and i also i think for serena made a really good point in her pre-match uh press conference yesterday where she was like what do they do do they keep us apart in the group stage but then what if scotland top their group in england top their group go through and then we have almost a bigger problem in the knockout stage right where you know closer and more is at stake so I struggle to think of a solution other than the fact that this scenario

of there being a team GB in the Olympics versus the fact that all the nations play separately in all other competitions is the problem right like that is a you know a square that doesn't fit in a round hole and as sad as that is maybe there shouldn't be a team gb on that basis but then i think there should be a team gb so it's a really difficult problem i don't really think there's that much of an answer i do think it's potentially a short-term thing because ultimately I think the Olympics has to go the way of the men's and switch to an under-23s tournament, which is a very European-centric way of thinking because it's a very important tournament for teams that don't have as big continental tournaments as the Euros is. But I think that that's the way it has of has to go sort of almost like organically but even then you'd have the same problem under 23s level as well so i really struggle to see an answer to it like i think that in a group stage is probably the best place for them to play each

other you put them in separate groups you run the risk of them getting through obviously that's you know unlikely potentially to happen given the way Scotland have performed in this but you're basically hoping then that one of them doesn't get through so they don't then meet in the knockouts and I you know I think maybe this scenario is the better one so I'm sort of yeah I've gone from being very hard line like this could never happen again this is ridiculous to be in like rock hard place this doesn't fit so yeah I don't know I think the biggest problem with it is the integrity around the players and what their intentions are I think that's a big problem because Scotland captain Rachel Corsi was understandably unhappy at any kind of suggestion that they might not want to win the game regardless that they've been relegated to League B they're

still facing the old enemy aren't they is the way it's talked about she said it's so disrespectful absolutely outrageous to question anyone's integrity and it's a huge insult to us it feels like there's a little bit of extra edge on this game tonight Marva for lots of different reasons anyway as it would be before you know the the reverse fixture that we saw in Sunderland was a tasty game anyway, wasn't it? What are you expecting later? Yeah, I think so. I mean, even just in Scotland, so that itself, it's never going to be, they're never going to be a walkover

and they're never going to let England walk them over, regardless of what all the other situation is and all the maths that needs to happen and on the pitch and off the pitch. But the first game was a really competitive one and i'm really excited to see because it's going to be a very interesting dynamic putting aside all the kind of you know what it means for scotland i just think for england as well and what that means for what they have to do for this job the dynamics of this game are very interesting because they're going to have to go out the blocks very very early which as we know their biggest problem over the last few months has been how vulnerable they are to counter attacks so if

they're putting a sort of every single attacker they have on the pitch from the beginning and trying to get a full goal margin to get through to the olympics then we might have some issues in defending on the counter attack and they've got some very good attackers as we saw in um in the first game of this fixture so i think the dynamics itself of the game are going to be very interesting. All the hype around it is very interesting. And then you've got the Nations League and then you've got Olympics and then you've got all the maths that you've got to do. So I think there's going to be a lot going on in this game. Cue a 0-0 draw or something.

And it's really boring, but I don't think it will be. Susie desperate now for her train to be cancelled so she doesn't have to take her calculator. I was just about to say, yeah. Honestly, after the Netherlands game, we were really struggling. We were all in the press box going, did they not have to win by two goals? Like, what does this mean for the Scotland game?

What happens if it's a draw in the other game? And we'd all filed copy with very little idea of what was actually going on panicking about what we had filed which was amusing slash painful yeah it feels like it we'll uh we'll speak to Tom in a second about what the Nations League means outside of the UK but that's it for part one in part two we'll round up the rest of the Nations League action chat women's football review and Champions League expansion and look ahead to an enticing weekend of Barclays WSL action. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

So just to round up some of the other scores and state of play elsewhere across Europe, Scotland will be relegated to League B of the Nations League, despite largely dominating in their one-all draw with Belgium on Friday. Erin Cuthbert's superb long-range strike cancelled out Marie de Troyes' opener in Leuven, but it was not enough. They had to win to prolong their stay in the division and it feels like yet another what could have been moment for pedro martinez losa's side suzy because they've pretty much been in every single game in this group but just fallen

short every time yeah i mean it shows how competitive the competition in europe is now right like and in a way the nations league really shows that and is giving teams a chance to test against like a slightly higher opposition than maybe they would be facing otherwise so i think coming away from a group with england the netherlands and belgium who you know all ranked higher than them with a couple of points and some really really solid performances is not something to be sniffed out obviously being relegated to the League B is not the most ideal thing, but that then will perhaps sit them in teams a little bit more their level, whether then, after having the experience of playing those teams,

will play teams at a slightly similar level or slightly lower to build up and prepare them to come back in. So whilst I sort of struggle with the Nations League in that there's now no sort of run of friendly matches in between major tournaments that gives a manager time to experiment and you know kind of play around with formations and teams and you're sort of going from important competition to important competition at every single window now if you're an international manager which I don't think is ideal I also really like that we're seeing like really competitive games in this tournament I think that's a really really good thing as well and you know not every team suffers

major tournament hangover like England does so like you know that can't necessarily be an excuse yeah we'll see how they get on against England this evening of course. You'll know if you're listening to the pod already. Bad news for Wales as well. They've been relegated from the top tier two after they were beaten 2-1 by Iceland in Cardiff. Substitute

Elise Hughes' injury time header came a bit too late to give Gemma Granger's side a chance of staging a real comeback. They've lost all five of their Group A three games and round things off against Germany in Swansea this evening. You're on commentary duty for this one, Tom. It was a 5-1 defeat for Wales in the return fixture back in October and you expect it to be another tricky fixture, I suppose.

I think so, especially because Germany, they got past Denmark last time out and that put their fate back into their own hands. So Germany are fully now expecting to go on and win the group and maybe, you know, meet up with England, perhaps with a potential Olympics qualification showdown in the final stage of the Nations League, possibly. I think that looks a lot more likely than it did. Early on, Germany lost their opening game and now they've got Horst Hulbesch, the experienced, shall we say, 72-year-old former Hamburg player who's come in. He's taken over from Martina Vosteklenburg.

So big changes afoot in Germany with Hulbesch as the manager. But yeah, I feel sorry for Wales because they've given it a really good go in this campaign as well. I think three games lost by just the one goal. They suffered from the same thing as Scotland, really, in that the Nations League is very useful for testing yourself against very good teams, but it doesn't make it easy in terms of picking up results. No, and actually they did suffer a huge blow going into the international break, Wales,

because Leicester forward Hannah Kane picked up an ACL injury in training leading up to the game, which, you know know heartbreaking for her obviously because it's the second time she's done a cruciate ligament and also a really big blow for Leicester as well. Tom you spoke earlier about the positives around this competition is it supported by the likes of Austria and Germany from your side? Yeah it does seem to be because the Nations League yes it is a competitive match instead of a friendly but you know if you really want to you can still use it potentially as a friendly you can still experiment you can still change things up you don't have to play it with quite the same importance as

a World Cup qualifier for example yes it does have Olympic qualification tied in which is key for several teams so that does go against it but generally I think it's been seen to have worked well I think that goes for both the men's and the women's game generally I think it's been seen to have worked well I think that goes for both the men's and the women's game and I think it's easy to have the kind of England perspective or just the perspective from the big teams but you have to look at it from some of the smaller teams as well it's an absolutely crucial step if you're playing at the lower levels of the Nations League to play against opponents who are more within your kind of category within your kind of skill set skill level

and be able to then give time to new players and develop as a national team so it's not just from the sort of elite nations where this is being viewed you know from from the other nations too it is a really useful competition and I think I think people are warming to it and you know it's still in its its very early days but but long may it continue, I think. Northern Ireland's hopes of promotion to League A are still alive after their 4-0 win over Albania. Aston Villa's Simone McGill bagging a brace in this one in Tirana, while Danielle Maxwell and Megan Bell were also on the score sheet. It's been described as their best performance under Tanya Ox to be.

The victory moved them into second place, the promotion playoff spot in Group B1 ahead of Hungary. They faced group winners at Republic of Ireland in Dublin tonight. Massive game there. They beat Hungary 1-0 on Friday, by the way. And some notable Everton representation from the Republic, Marva as well.

Heather Payne, of course, but Courtney Brosnan made some really important saves. She's a huge player, isn't she, for made some really important saves, she's a huge player isn't she for club and country? Yeah she's been brilliant and obviously we sort of brought in Ramsey on loan first and then made permanent and it seemed that maybe Ramsey

was even going to get the number one spot for Everton and now I think Brosnan's really cemented her place and she's been brilliant for both club and country and big shout out to Payne as well because she's just started to come to the Everton side and play more regularly. And I think she's been one of our best players since she has. And I think she got player of the match for this game for Ireland as well.

So yeah, it's exciting to see those two do some stuff this season. Yeah, one team we definitely won't be seeing at the Olympics though. Sweden. Unbelievable. Their 1-0 defeat by Switzerland on matchday five means for the first time since women's football was introduced to the Olympics, the Swedes will not be featuring. They were, of course, silver medalists at Tokyo last time out

and finished third in the World Cup as well. Big news for them. And World Cup winner Spain stunned on Friday evening, beating 3-2 by Italy, inflicting their first defeat since becoming world champions. Don't worry though, they had already qualified for the finals, so job was already done, but well done to Italy for that. So just to round up,

already qualified for the Nations League finals of France and Spain, in contention to qualify for the final two spots are the Netherlands, England, Belgium, Germany and Denmark. Already relegated from League A penneth, by the way. Just fun to have some competitive fixtures rather than constant friendlies, I think. And I've enjoyed it, even though there's question marks over some of it. Right, listen, this is quite important because news came through on Sunday night that the UK government says it will back all recommendations in the Women's Football Review that was led by

former England midfielder Karen Carney. You'll remember the report was published back in July, and it called for a new regular broadcast slot to be made available amongst other hugely important developments, including recommending that the top two women's tiers in England should become

fully professional. And we actually had that announcement just after the pod came out last Tuesday with WSL and Championship clubs agreeing to form a club-owned organisation,

NUCO, to run women's professional football in England from the 2024-25 season, with each club acting as a shareholder. I mean, you've written about some of the finer details for the Guardian, Susie, on both of these things, which kind of merge together, really. Sum it up for us, if you can.

Yeah, I mean, it's hugely positive, was my first impression and is still my impression, in the same way that, like, the Kear Carney review, I was very, very impressed with. I thought it was really hard hitting on all of the key issues and on governance and on financial sustainability and on investing in the pathway and the pyramid and all of those kind of things in a really like positive way on diversity so to see the government recommendations back all of that I think what is a really important time for women's football where we're starting to see some of the you know obviously Nuko has all the clubs have voted for Nuko to be formed all 24 in the women's super league and women's championship but not without a little bit of controversy before that when not every women's championship club backed that move partly because there's a lot of discussion over the extent of championships clubs voting power within the new body and when that is a discussion which like for

me immediately raises a number of alarm bells regardless of how much WSL clubs are giving up which I think in and of itself is a terrible phrase because it's not giving up it's it's you know the good of the game and its development but you know we're talking about commercial rights broadcast rights that all of those kind of decisions the WSL clubs want full control over all of the decision making around those kind of things and don't want the championship to have a vote on that in part because it's the WSL that brings in most of the money and they're already very kindly giving a 25 share of all revenue to the championship now my first issue is that the fact that the WSL is

the bigger revenue making part of this equation is a really really new phenomenon right like it's a few years at most that um that we've reached that point so i think it's a little bit like a well we make more money than you well you know you all have the potential to make more money across those 24 clubs in the next 10 years than any of you ever dreamt of in theory so let's not have that or we bring in more kind of argument that's what the you know men's football does to the women's game all the time let's not do that within women's football for one and I just find the idea that you're sort of removing a level of democracy and championship clubs won't have a say on some things that you know will ultimately affect them regardless of whether you know I was told that potentially some of that decision making will be on the

the NUCO boards to decide who gets to vote on things it's like but that board doesn't exist yet we don't know who's on it so you're basically asking them to sign away a lot of their rights without a lot of that knowledge. So because of all of that, I think this government response to the Carney review, which, you know, talks about the importance of, um, not in the same words, but democratic decision-making and all of those kinds of things and financial sustainability and investment in the pathway, all of those things like i think it's important that they're reaffirmed at this point and that the whole process of nuco is just a little bit regrounded in some of the things that should be sort of

fundamental parts of the birth of this new organization that is going to run women's football at the top level so yeah i like really important from that point of view and some really good stuff on you know the pathway on you know international players and their ability to actually come play in the country and the requirements they have to jump through to be able to do that fan participation on decision making bodies on ground safety and things like that like really everything is covered and it's really comprehensive and really good and some really good proposals and you just sort of it's you know one of the other good things is that there's you know a working group being set up to actually follow up on this and like look at implementation and it's reviewing it in March and then in July and things like that and want answers on a lot of the questions that they have about what's being done to

you know make things happen so a lot of positives from it and a really like important regrounding of the conversation around what women's football should look like whilst new co clubs which you know you get the impression that wsl premier league back clubs are you know kind of using their muscle a little bit even if they are giving up a lot or however it may be phrased is the sort of the way the momentum was going and that needs to be pulled back on a little bit yeah it's going to be fascinating isn't it the next year or so as that takes shape um also news of changes to the champions league marva the competition set to become-team league format from the 2025-26 season. So instead of 16 teams split into four groups, clubs will play three home and three away matches

before they move into a knockout phase. Nine teams will qualify automatically, including the winners of the WSL. The runners-up of the two top-rank ranked associations will also be guaranteed direct qualification along with the previous season's winners. Currently, as a reminder, only the holders and champions of the three top ranked leagues, which at the moment are Spain, Germany and France, qualify automatically for the group stages. UEFA has also given the green light for a second Women's European Club competition, which will follow a straight knockout format. And some teams who were eliminated in the early rounds of the Women's Champions League

will receive a second chance to play in a continental competition, which sounds a little bit UEFA Europa League-esque. Is this good news, Marva? Because I think the consensus between us here on the panel is that none of us really understand it fully. Yeah, there's an element of that. Obviously, it's the same things happening in the men's game as well. So it's a similar kind of Swiss league format,

is what they call it, which has been sort of opposition to there as well. But I think the opposition there might somewhat be because none of us really like change and it's like why we like groups it's fine why mess with the format um but I think for the the men's side you can see it or understand it a little bit more in the sense of it's coming from the motivation of having some of the kind of bigger clubs match up a little bit more and have a few more different matchups that we haven't seen before but in the women's game it just kind of feels like all right we've just copied that format because that's what the men's format is doing but we haven't had that tradition yet in the women's

game we've just started getting going I thought the Champions League last year was incredible and the knockout stages were amazing and it's like we're just starting to get into it a bit more I think you're starting to see teams like Juve and Roma in these teams that um you know quite big franchise teams across the world their women's teams are coming through so much and providing real competition and I think we could have done with another few years of that same format of everyone getting used to it of that same competition and us kind of just really understanding what it is and yes we could have done a bit of an expansion and look at the way that the teams were qualifying but now to kind of throw in this whole new system I'm just not sure if that's really in the interest of

the women's game or if it's just us kind of piggybacking off of what's happening in the men's game but what I do like is the second tier competition however I think the news about that isn't quite clear yet in terms of what it means for like how many teams qualify for that because I think if it's just a case of and this is from a very English perspective but if it's just a case of you know fourth place gets that that competition I don't think it does that much more for the league because it is kind of the top four that run away if it was a WSL anyway whereas obviously from a very biased perspective of supporting a team biased perspective of a supporting a

team and kind of mid-table territory if that kind of went more into the fourth place and fifth place and there was something a little bit more to play for for those teams in mid-table because especially in the WSL there's this real like cluster of teams sort of from fifth place down to almost ninth sometimes tenth and I think that would really add another level of competition if there was something more to play for. But I get the feeling that it's kind of more just going to be that fourth place, but hopefully in the future that that will expand more and I think that will be a really big step for the game.

Yeah, it's going to be another interesting year or two years, actually. We've got a little bit longer for that, haven't we? Listen, while we've got Tom with us, it would be very rude not to take the opportunity to check in on how things are shaping up in Western Europe at the moment let's start in Germany shall we because it's incredibly tight in the Frau and Bundesliga table Bayern Munich sitting top on 20 points from their opening six games but Wolfsburg just behind them on 19 and

Hoffenheim sit third on 14 it's arguably the most competitive of the traditional big three leagues outside of the Barclays WSL, Tom. How finely poised is it? How exciting? Yeah, very finely poised. We've had this great battle in the last couple of seasons between FC Bayern and Wolfsburg. And Wolfsburg, who are not in the Champions League, by the way, one of these massive proponents of this new system of how can a team as big as Wolfsburg possibly not make it into the Champions League? You know, there's, yeah, a feeling that I wish we'd have gone with the sort of the outgoing men's Champions League format where you keep the group stages as they are, but you just expand them and make more of them. That could have been a place, you know, you don't want to tweak things past perfection. But I

think in women's football, some of these tournaments haven't yet reached perfection so we shouldn't be against every change just because it's a change you know some things do need to be made but yeah Bayern in the Champions League, Eintracht Frankfurt are in the Champions League as well but Bayern against Wolfsburg it's so so hard to to see which way it's going to go really really finely poised every sort of cup duel, every league duel between the two of them, it seems to be like a mental hammer blow to the loser. At the moment, Wolfsburg still

seem to have the edge, although Bayern are champions. So many players doing a lot of good things. I'm really enjoying Clara Bühl at the moment, so watch out for her in the Champions League for sure if you haven't seen her already and against Wales tonight as well. Clara clara bull i'm sure will will play a key role for germany but by in a 25 games unbeaten by the way so nice to see georgia stanway doing well over in the bundesliga

a very exciting title race and great news for the tv money as of uh quite recently the tv income will be 16 times higher from this season than it was before so a new TV deal in Germany has been really useful as well because it's easy to forget because the Bundesliga is such a good league it is actually tracking quite far behind the women's super league in terms of you know it's great to see all the new developments being pushed through and the government talking about all this stuff in women's football in the UK that is not quite happening at the same pace in Germany so I watch with with vested interest what's happening in England and I hope that some of these things can be taken on board in Germany as well. Yeah hopefully it starts to translate because it's important that it's

competitive in as many places as possible as quickly as possible otherwise you start to have a separation again don't you? I'm never going to say Wolfsburg like I normally say Wolfsburg, by the way. I want to say it the way you say it, Tom. I'm going to practice my German. What about the domestic scene where you are in Austria? Because, of course, representation by St. Poulton in the Champions League, although they've made a pretty difficult start to their campaign,

beaten by Bran and Lyon in their two matches so far how's it going out there? Yeah St. Pölten are absolutely dominant in the Austrian football scene I would argue that their 2-0 defeat away at Lyon is actually a really good result for St. Pölten which is a shame but again only breathes more life into the theory that there should be more participation in the Champions League I'd love to see what St. Pölten could do, for example, in a Women's Europa League style competition too. So there's a lot of excitement about that here because there's also good Austrian teams

who don't have a chance basically to get into Europe because St. Pölten take the best places. But the game here, I mean, the under 20 women just qualified for their first ever World Cup last night. So that's the first time any Austrian women's team will be at a World Cup next year, which is really nice. And Eileen Campbell is worth a mention. She's half Austrian, half Northern Irish. And she's just moved from Altach after being Austria's Footballer of the Year for 2023.

She's moving to Freiburg in the German Bundesliga. So that's a big move starting to do really well for the national team as well. I'd argue that maybe the more interesting things in Austria are coming from beyond the Bundesliga because you've got the big men's teams now starting to run women's teams, which is really nice to see. So Escarapide, Rapid Vienna,

the most well-supported team in the men's game in Austria, they've never had a women's team. And now they're just starting with under 10s, under 12s. And they are gearing towards a professional women's team, which is absolutely the way things should be going over here. And you've got like LASK, another team, they just played Liverpool the other night. Their women's team are top of the second division

and pushing for the Bundesliga. And there's even a tiny town called Pinsgau Saalfelden is the football club. And they're bringing over coaches and college players And there's even a tiny town called Pinsgau Saalfelden is the football club. And they're bringing over coaches and college players from the US to kind of embed them into European football and give them a taste of the European football scene. And that's really exciting. They're also battling near the top of the second division and they've got a huge mountain backdrop to their pitch. So when you're thinking of Austrian football, you know, I want to see the women's teams playing in much bigger and better stadiums and facilities, but I still want to see snow-capped mountains in the background of the football pitches here. You can't beat that. Yes, you must have a good view. I demand it. I need more seats. A prerequisite. In Liga F, it won't surprise you to hear that Barcelona have made quite a good start to their campaign. They've played 10, won 10,

goals 4, 43, goals against 2. They sit on 30 points, Real Madrid second in the table on 24. And in France, it's usual suspects Lyon topping division 1 Femenin. They've won all nine of their opening nine fixtures and sit on 27 points, five points ahead of Paris FC and nine ahead of PSG. Now then, before we go, just a very quick word on this weekend's upcoming Barclays WSL fixtures. We don't need to look very far for the standout fixture of the week, Susie. Arsenal against Chelsea should be absolutely brilliant in front of hopefully a record crowd at the Emirates it's now 55,000 tickets sold I believe yeah it's creeping towards that sellout which is great like it'd be really really brilliant to have you know sold out domestic match a major stadium in the women's super league and let's face it like it's not going to disappoint on the pitch it might be

impossible to because Emma Hayes is not going to want to walk away from the Emirates in her last season in front of a record crowd with a defeat Arsenal obviously playing really well but Chelsea are just an absolute machine playing some wonderful football some young exciting talent particularly in Lauren James and Agamemba Jones who are performing so well so the way Chelsea are playing it's hard to see anything but a Chelsea win for me which is weird to say but they're just so efficiently brilliant and quite surprising at the moment I would say like it's they're not an easy team to read so it's going to be great probably Probably painful for me, but also, yeah, like, nice too. Yeah, it's going to be a fun game. Congratulations to Frida Marnham as well,

who was named Women's Player of the Year at the FSA Awards last night. By the way, the rest of the fixtures look like this. Manchester City, Aston Villa, Brighton Leicester, Liverpool, Bristol City, Tottenham, Manchester United and West Ham, Everton, Marva, an opportunity to put some real distance between yourselves and the relegation place. Yeah, obviously that win

against Villa was huge, but we're without Piemonte still because of that odd ban that we couldn't even see the footage because it was raining so much. So I don't know what actually happened. And even though it was a great win against Villa our goals were from a bad own goal and a penalty so we're still not exactly creating many opportunities in fact we are creating them we're just not scoring them but this would be a really really big one to win if we could get this I feel like our season would be somewhat settled and we can kick on from there but if this was Everton men and we'd just beaten Villa and then we're playing the team that are like one of the favourites to go down we would 100% lose this game so I'm hoping that Everton women have a different mentality and they're going to do something different for me.

Brilliant, big good luck to all of those taking part in the third round of the newly sponsored Adobe FA Cup as well on Sunday. We'll pick out some of the standout results in next week's pod. And remember, the WSL teams enter the competition in the next round so we'll have news of that draw as well. Right. Like tick kite, as Tom has said. Easy.

Did I pronounce that right? Like tick kite. Yeah, very good. Like tick kite. Almost. Almost. See, I've already logged on to Duolingo to try and brush up on my German. Tom, it's been lovely to see you. See you again soon. Thanks very much. See you.

Marva, good luck in that game. Cheers. Thank you. Susie, I hope you get to Glasgow. I sort of hope I don't. But yeah, I mean, obviously, I'd like to watch the football. That sounds really like spoil. But yeah, I'd like to watch the football. That sounds really like spoil. But yeah, I'd like to also be warm.

Yes, yes. Wrap up if you do make it. We'll be back on Tuesday to round up the return of the WSL and any other big news across the world of women's football. Keep getting involved by emailing us at womensfootballweeklyattheguardian.com or tweeting us your questions. You can also subscribe to the Guardian's Moving the Goalposts newsletter. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Lucy Oliver. Music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Salah Ahmad.

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