The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - The end for Eidevall at Arsenal: Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Faye Carruthers, Suzanne Wrack, Tanya Oxtoby and Sophie Downey discuss the weekend’s WSL action and last week’s WCL games. Plus, Tom Garry reports from St George’s Park as England’s squad is announced

This is The Guardian. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hi there, Guardian Women's Football Weekly fans. It's Faye here. Just to let you know, just over an hour after we finished recording this week's pod, we had the news that Jonas Eidevall has resigned as head coach of Arsenal following their 2-1 defeat to Chelsea at the weekend. Our analysis on the game still stands, but myself, Susie and producer Soph have just jumped on to react to the breaking news. And

that's what you'll hear first in the pod after the intro, before we jump into the pod that we recorded earlier. I hope that makes sense. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Jonas out with the cries and now it's been confirmed. The Arsenal boss has left his job after boos rang out around the Emirates after a chastening week in North London. Emma Hayes watches her Chelsea successor Sonia Bonpastor beat the Gunners on home turf.

City go top in an ugly turnaround win over Liverpool, while Manchester United thrash Spurs. We'll look back at the week's Champions League action, look ahead to the international break, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. What a panel we have today. Susie, I'm so sorry.

I just don't even know where to start. You have to laugh, otherwise you'll cry. I'm so sorry. That's really harsh. Really harsh. But what a week for you. Yeah, it's not been great, has it? I mean, like, sort of to be expected, given the circumstances.

I went into Saturday not full of confidence, shall we say. No. Hey-ho. Understandable. Tanya Rock's to be full of confidence. It's been a while. How goes it in Northern Ireland? Yeah, good.

Thank you. Landed last night. So busy day ahead. And yeah, look, we're excited. We've got a playoff coming up. Can't wait to get back together with the girls. So it's been a very long time. So yeah, can't wait to see their smiley faces.

We'll see if they're still smiling after three days. But yeah. I was going to say, depends what drills you're going to put them through. Sophie Downey, busy old week for you, getting busier as well. It is. It's this time of the year, right? It's non-stop, non-stop, but very exciting things to come. The hats are back. We're into the winter. They're back again.

It's very chilly, very chilly. Okay, so when we recorded the pod earlier on, we started with all eyes on the emirates stakes high ahead of the first london derby of the season following a poor week for arsenal and after a draw with everton and a midweek battering by bayern munich the last thing on earth under pressure head coach jonas eidervoune needed was to then come up against chelsea sonia bonpastor for the first time under the watchful eye of former blues boss Emma Hayes. And at around 10.30 in the morning UK time on Tuesday, Arsenal announced that Jonas Ardeval had resigned from his position as head coach of the Arsenal women's first team

and that he leaves with immediate effect. First team assistant coach René Slagers is going to take charge of the team as their interim head coach. This is what sporting director Edu had to say. We thank Jonas for his commitment to the club and achievements here since joining us in 2021. We have great respect for the dedication and commitment he showed to our women's first team and recognise the role he's played in the growth and development of Arsenal women. We all wish him the very best for the future. Our focus will now turn to the process of appointing a new head coach and in the meantime supporting Renee as she takes interim charge of the team starting with two important fixtures this week. Director of Women's Football Claire

Wheatley said the search for a new head coach is underway and will make a further announcement when that process is complete. Susie, discuss. We were not expecting that. Not expecting it and expecting it. I don't think we're expecting it now. You know, I think with the international break coming up, I think many thought that that might be the opportunity that they would take to move on from Jonas's tenure. And, you know, possibly even the January winter break, if they were kind of wanting to sort of hold on a little bit longer and, you know, kind of find someone before they got rid. But I don't think anyone thought it would be this immediate. Obviously, we knew this game was make or break against Chelsea at the weekend. But yeah, I mean, it's not nice is it I said it in our original recording before we knew it was gone that

it's horrible to see someone lose their job right in this fashion is not a pleasant thing to have to witness but I think you know it was quite evident on Saturday that the fans completely lost the players looked um desolate and disconsolate at the end of the match um looked idealist during and yeah it was hard to see a way forward based on the way they were performing and playing um you know i think saw an interview with beth mead in the mix zone afterwards where she said that they were kind of yeah not in a good place at the moment and, you know, lacking confidence and things like that. And ultimately the buck stops the manager and eventually he's got to go. In a way, it's probably good that Arsenal have acted so swiftly to sort of address the rot before it sets in too, too deep and the negativity gets too, too strong. Yeah, interesting you say that Arsenal reacted,

but actually, you know, the statement says he himself resigned. Was that very much, Sophie, a case of respect for a manager that's won back-to-back trophies for them in the last two seasons and, you know, falling on his sword rather than getting the chop, if you like? I think you would imagine so. That's more likely the way forward. They probably had a big conversation about it over the last 24 hours, imagine and yeah clubs do this don't they it's just it's a kind of seen as a respect when I guess when a manager is um on his way out but yeah I think it is probably a mutual agreement as well I think it was very very clear as we've mentioned that things weren't going

particularly well for them as Susie said I'm equally surprised that it's now but actually I'm quite impressed it's now because you can imagine if things you know they've got two winnable games this week that you would on paper say they would they would win Valorenga and then West Ham at the weekend and you can imagine the kind of I don't know for the outrage if that does start to go south. So, you know, being quite on the front foot with it, maybe in terms of changing things now, you know, it doesn't allow that kind of narrative to take place. Yeah, let's give him a little bit of love for what he has actually achieved for Arsenal, because I think that is really important he joined from FC Rosengard in Sweden just over three years ago now won back-to-back trophies in the last two seasons

lots of memorable moments Susie as well from an Arsenal fan's point of view how do you assess his three and a half years in charge even though it's ended in a disappointing way? It had so much promise right like he came in and um you could immediately see an impact things were on the rise things on off the pitch were going really well you know they've won two Conte cups in his tenure but they've really lacked completely turned around as well actually the fortunes against the top three you know when Jonas came in they were really really struggling in those games and you know last season they had the best points record taken off of each other amongst the top three um of any of the clubs you know so there were clear signs of progress there but then you

know the sort of persistent issues the lack of consistency in performance the struggling to break down uh teams that set up in a low block the just sort of lack of I was gonna say dynamism that's the wrong words the lack of unpredictability in the way they play I think really became a problem that's just got worse and worse and they have the issue is that they haven't looked like solving those problems that's that's the big issue yeah listen Tanya's busy coaching with Northern ireland so she couldn't jump on uh for her reaction to the news but she does give plenty of opinion on what we have seen recently so let's dig into the game from the weekend itself

here's what we recorded earlier on before we'd heard the bombshell news it finished arsenal one chelsea two arsenal's woes continuing they got off to the worst possible It finished Arsenal 1, Chelsea 2. Arsenal's woes continuing. They got off to the worst possible start when Mayra Ramirez fired the Blues ahead within four minutes. Sandy Baltimore doubled the lead as Chelsea threatened to run away with it. The Gunners did rally.

Caitlin Ford pulled a goal back in the first half, but Chelsea held on to continue their 100% start to the campaign. Lots of questions over Jonas Eidevall and his future. Arsenal have already dropped seven points this season after just four games. They sit sixth in the table. Booze rang out around the Emirates at the final whistle. He was questioned on it after the game and said,

I gave absolutely everything today and in preparation for the game. I think you can see that the players gave absolutely everything as well on the pitch. That's the part you control as a coach. That's the part I can ask for from the players as well. Susie, you did write an article leading into the game in The Guardian and it was very measured about your thoughts on the manager. And in isolation, the result probably not considered season defining um but it does feel as if the pressure is increasing a little bit and the fan base have had enough yeah yeah it's definitely

increasing um you know the fact that it doesn't mean that women's football has like made it into the mainstream when there's Jonas out being like painted onto the walls outside the Emirates and you know fans waving fake E45s in the crowd and stuff I don't know it feels like a bit new territory well I don't like it I mean I think it's like kind of horrible as well because this is a person's job but at the same time like the results have been bad but if anything it's the sort of persistent problems that have been there sort of throughout Jonas's tenure haven't gone away and if anything got worse this issue with you know breaking down low blocks in particular you know it as we saw last season it wasn't against the top teams they had the problems it was against the the team sort of a little bit

further down the table that they uh dropped points to so like the fact that that hasn't gone away and seems to be getting worse is a big problem that teams know what to do that they're quite predictable in the way they're set up um makes it um really really worrying and I thought you know they really played into played into that narrative by conceding two goals so early on in the game against Chelsea in what you know should be a more expansive game that they can get a bit more out of but you know you saw in the second half that they just allowed Chelsea to um well I mean I say allowed they dominated possession but Chelsea were able to just sit back and soak up that pressure in the knowledge that Arsenal really struggled to break down those those types of defensive structures so like I feel like they made a rod for their own back with those two really badly conceded goals early on in that game but it's the pattern of the pattern of

behavior of creating so many chances but not managing to break down defenses particularly low blocks that just I think makes it really, really difficult situation moving forward. The players just look completely shot and there's a disconnect there between them and the manager and the fans and the manager. And like, yeah, how long that will last, I don't know. As a coach, Tanya, how do you view it from the outside? Yeah, I think I echo it's really difficult to watch because it's it's a human being at the end of the day and um you know you can tell that you know he's being very very open saying look I'm trying everything I'm giving everything I agree it seems there seems

to be a little bit of a disconnect I can see the players are a little bit they seem a little bit lost that's how it appears in terms of the interviews and some of the body language um but you know in terms of the the issues that you speak about there Susie breaking down low blocks it's it is one of the hardest things to do in the game and I remember our time my time at Chelsea it was like it was one of the most difficult things that you know we faced but you have to you have to find a way and I'm not sure maybe over the last, in particular, probably 18 months, two seasons that Arsenal have been able to do that. And they've got very, very talented players. And I think with a club with the stature of Arsenal, you're going to face a lot more low blocks than you are the open games.

So it's about trying to find a solution to that because, look, I think it's a really, really difficult situation that they're in now, you know, in particular in terms of the league, because the last thing you want in October is to know you have to win every single game because the WSL is so competitive and that is a massive amount of pressure to pile on to an already struggling group of players and coaches. I actually thought Farrah Williams made a really good point on the BBC's Women's Football Show because she said that, you know,

there's been a lot of talk about Jonas, but the players have to take some responsibility here because it's not like they're not creating chances. You know, they're creating so many chances. And what was it? I think they only had three or four shots on target to Chelsea's six in that game, despite creating around 20. And so she was saying that the onus has to be a little bit on the players as well, that they're not kind of finding that way through. You know, they're top quality players. But if the confidence has gone through the group, then maybe that's the issue. But yeah, I actually thought that was a really, really interesting point she made.

And yeah, I think not everything should be directed at Jonas don't put all the onus on Jonas um oh god I can't help myself I can't help myself even though it's early I'm so sorry I'm trying to lighten the mood um but I tell you what it's a really interesting point there about um and I've been thinking about it a lot the last few days we're very very used to this kind of abuse knee-jerk kind of shouting you know managers out etc in in the men's game and we're not so used to it in the women's game and I hate comparing them a lot of the time but actually I think it is important to in some ways because I don't know whether I like the kind of trend towards it because I don't like it in men's football either because it is

human beings that we're talking about and I think that you know this kind of view that it means that women's football has made it what does that say about us as a society I just find it really uncomfortable I don't know whether I'm just riffing and maybe just having some kind of little moment, but what do you think, Soph? I think it's really hard. I always hate the manager discourse, like the manager kind of asking the manager out.

But I think with Arsenal, the problem is it's been pretty sustained. The problems aren't going away. And actually, I think the progress, when you're looking at it from a bigger picture, they look this season like they've gone backwards a little bit. And that's, I think, where things get really, really tough. Because as Susie was saying, you know, the last season, the breaking down of the lower blocks was really hard.

But they were winning the games against, you know, the cities of the world. They beat Chelsea once as well. This this season they've dropped points against City and they've dropped points against Chelsea they've lost against Chelsea so and then they're dropping points to Everton so when you're looking at it I guess from a fan perspective and you're supporting your team week in and week out and you're not even picking up the points that you were last season and I know that's really harsh because you're playing Chelsea and you know historically the best team in the league as our city they're playing really well at the moment but I just think that's that's just going to be the measure the barometer along what people are measuring them on and I know we'll get to it later about the Champions League but the

manner of that defeat I think as well the capitulation in it really just added to this narrative this whole week of making it really really tough and adding to the noise of the manager. So I do agree, I don't like the reactive, but I do think there's a bigger story to it as well. Yeah, I agree with you on that. It's been building up for a little while, hasn't it? But yeah, and we will talk about the Champions League results a little bit later on, but that was an embarrassing one for sure.

5-2 defeat to Bayern Munich. Just a quick one, staying on Arsenal a little bit he decided to make quite a few changes again to his starting lineup which I'm not sure is always helpful what what did you make of those decisions and and the kind of overall performance Tanya and and within that question sorry three questions in one that's terrible journalism I I'm very sorry. When you're in the middle of a bad run, how do you even go about trying to turn it around? Yeah, look, I think there's a couple of points there, you know, in terms of the changes that were made. I think. In fairness to Jonas, he had to do something, you know, and, you know, you can't go away.

And I suppose losing the manner they did and not have a reaction. So I can understand, you know, the rotation. I can understand why he's trying to find a little bit of a spark or a way out. And look, they've got a really talented squad. So realistically, you know, if you're coming in, then you should be able to execute the role that's being asked of you, et cetera. And I think the issue I see

with that is I'm not really sure that Arsenal have the depth in the defensive areas and that is the the issue that they're finding as well as obviously breaking down low blocks they're conceding goals that are really uncharacteristic for a top team to concede and so therefore you know making changes in terms of I suppose attacking impetus is not necessarily you know solving some of the other issues so so there's there's that um I think you know from from like a team point of view I just think it's difficult when you're trying to get the balance right of freshness you've had a midweek game you've had a tough away game you're trying to keep players fresh you're trying to make sure that everybody in the squad feels like they've got value but you

don't want to disrupt too much and there's it's a really really fine line with that balance because like I said you want to inject some energy you want to you know give people opportunity but you also don't want to disrupt the rhythm and the connections that form so yeah coaching's a tough tough gig it's you're damned if do, damned if you don't, I think sometimes. Who'd want to do that job, eh? You're braver than me, that's for sure. Let's talk about Chelsea. I mean, it's kind of complete contrast, isn't it, in terms of their brilliance in front of goal, particularly the brilliance of Mayra Ramirez, player of the match again,

another standout performance. And she just, her very presence, Susie, just seems to strike fear in her opponents. She's such an intelligent player. Her technical quality is outstanding. And then she's got this physicality as well she's just able to sort of brush past players with such ease um and manipulates the ball so well uh her positioning is just superb she's so like just she looks so difficult to defend against i mean there were

you know leah williamson is if one of england best defenders, if not the best defender. Obviously, a hugely talented defender reads the game so well. And Amara Ramirez made her look average over and over again. There was a moment where Ramirez breaks down the wing and Leah's chasing her and just has to sort of fall away, puts her hand in the air, appeals for the ball having gone out of play which I hadn't and there was nothing else she could do she because she's she's just she couldn't keep up with her um she didn't look like she was going to be able to get a tackle in because like she's just so quick and like technically resilient um yeah like she's just

such an incredible addition to the league. Frustratingly so for an Arsenal fan, but like from a journalism point of view and a neutrals perspective, she's just like unbelievable to watch. I think she's going to be right up there for top goal scorer awards at the end of the season and things like that. I just think she could be hugely influential and be the difference between them winning the Champions League or not, personally.

I think the difference between them winning the Champions League or not could potentially be their defence, actually, Sophie, because they were massively under pressure, weren't they, in the second half? And Bonpastor did admit that there was room for improvement. Is that a big worry? Yeah, so I think that's where the priorities might be. If you're looking for priorities at this stage of the season, and it's probably understandable, you know, it's kind of a new coach and everything, but those wide areas defensively are a bit of a red flag at the

moment, I think. Lucy Bronze has maybe struggled at times. She brings so much to the game in terms of her experience and kind of the impetus that she can bring in attack as well and supporting the attacking play. But I do think she has looked, you know, fallible at times. Defensively, you look at the Caitlin Ford goal at the weekend and she was beaten by Caitlin Ford down that left side quite comprehensively. And I think the same happened against Real Madrid at times.

And then on the other side, you've got Sandy Baltimore, who I don't think is naturally at all a left back. I think that might change when Niamh Charles comes back from injury. She's obviously dislocated her shoulder or whatever and had an operation, so she's out for a bit, Niamh Charles. And I think that's kind of forced Sonia Bonpastor to put her in defence when probably we'll see her move forward when Charles does come back. But she performed pretty well, I think, Sandy Baltimore, in defence when probably we'll see her move forward when Charles does come back but she

performed pretty well I think Sandy Baltimore but I do think it just means that Chelsea are a little bit unbalanced I also think the fact that they had to change up their well they changed up their centre defensive partnership as well Khadija Buchanan wasn't available for the Champions League in midweek which meant Natalie Bjorn came in and then they switched it back out. And I thought Buchanan had a really good game, but it just, I guess, adds a bit of disconnect in that defensive area when you're wanting to try and get stability, especially under a new coach.

Yeah, look, it's been the perfect start result-wise, Tanya, hasn't it? But just as they did against Real Madrid in midweek, they did allow their opponent back into the game. Difficult for you to comment on this, but I'm fascinated to know your opinion. Bearing in mind you were on Emma Hayes' coaching staff.

But do you feel that they've lost a little bit of the ruthlessness that maybe she brought? Or is it just a question of settling in under the new boss? I think we won't know till at least the midway point of the season. I think the positive for Chelsea is they've got players to come back in. You know, you look at the players that are currently not available, you know, it's frightening, to be honest. And, like, they're still winning and they're still getting results.

And, you know, yes, they're conceding goals, but actually I would be really surprised if that doesn't start to kind of improve over the coming kind of games and weeks. Because you look at the mentality of that group, the players that have been there a long time, that doesn't change. And they will not be happy with conceding, you know, the goals in the manner they have. And they'll be wanting to make sure that they're getting back to keeping clean sheets, etc. I know Sonia's mentioned that that's an area that they want to continue to improve on. So I think we can judge maybe halfway through the season.

I think there's a lot of, there's been a lot of change, a lot of movement, you know, a little bit of rotation back there too. Maybe players not necessarily playing in their preferred position, but I think once they've got a settled, you know, defensive line, once they've got players back, once they've maybe had sort of 10, 12 games together, then we might be able to sort of judge, you know, where that sits. But I'd be really, really surprised if there is a mentality shift, because I think you heard Millie Bright talk after the game that at the end of the day, this is what it is to be a Chelsea. If you want to play for this club, this is what it entails in terms of that real ability to grind out results make sure you get the win you know do whatever it takes and I don't see that changing it's part of the club's DNA and it's why they've been so

successful for such a long period of time. Yep absolutely and they've thrown the gauntlet down haven't they to Manchester City they faced a challenging visit to Anfield to face Matt Beard's Liverpool. It finished Liverpool 1, Manchester City 2. Olivia Smith continuing to make a name for herself at her new club. She fired Liverpool ahead, but Bunny Shaw, surprise, surprise, out to spoil the Reds' party. She scored two goals, levelling the score

before firing home a 92nd-minute winner to send her team home with a valuable victory. As with Alex Greenwood a couple of weeks ago, Susie, Shaw called it an ugly win. But I mean, having that ability to grind out a victory is the hallmark of a champion, isn't it? Oh yeah, 100%. I thought they weren't going to take three points

from that game for a huge portion of it. I thought Liverpool would get a draw at least, despite their dominance and Olivia Smith having to go off injured and things like that. I really, really thought they were just going to be a little bit stumped, but they dug it out. But I think the real test of City this season will be when they come up against the know the Arsenal's and Chelsea's

and Man United's and have to do the same um because I think that's where they've sort of struggled to grind out results um doing it against teams a little bit further down the table is a is the sort of something they have been able to do I'd say season on season but it's against those uh those top teams when they've gone ahead and things um or they've come back into games they've not been able to put them to bed or have given away three points quite late on um and and that kind of stuff so I think that will be the real test but they I mean they just look absolutely formidable at the moment and like really exciting to watch um obviously Mir Dema was rested or, you know, had picked up a knock in the Barcelona game.

So, you know, kind of given a bit of time out. So, but to still look that fluid, the combinations between her and Bunny Shaw and Lauren Hemp, I just thought were like electric. Their intuitive reading of each other's movements is just sublime and like lovely to watch and yeah they look really really good and obviously they're in the group stage of the champions league for the first time in a in a while so it's a bit new for them uh juggling multiple competitions this early

in the season tanya obviously that brilliant win over barcelona mid. But I feel almost a little bit as if backing it up in the league was even more impressive because this is exactly where you could slip up against a Liverpool side that are pretty decent. Yeah, it's all the things we've just been talking about, right, with Arsenal. So it's about making sure that you give yourself the opportunity by winning when you're not necessarily performing at your best. And look, Liverpool do this to teams over and over and over again. Credit to them. They are so difficult to get a result against.

They've proven that time and time again, especially last season, causing upsets all over the place. So I think to go to Anfield, to grind out a result, get the points on the board, that is now what the WSL is about. It's not about going and, you know, necessarily always dominating games for long periods and, you know, being cricket scores like those days are gone. And, you know, to be able to play midweek, massive game,

that would have taken a huge toll physically. And, you know, the emotional energy that goes with that, being back in the Champions League for the first time to then go away to Anfield again, big occasion and grind out a result. It's credit to City. You know, I think that those are the moments there where, you know, as a team, as you mentioned, you see the fluidity and the connectivity and that's what gets you through. You know, I know where you're going to be.

I know the movement you're going to make. know the pass i know the delivery those instinctual things are the things when you're tired and you need to get a result um you know are the difference i think between great teams and and average teams and um you look credit as i said credit to city i thought they were they were sensational midweek what a to watch. And then to be able to back it up with maybe a bit of energy depletion on all levels, but to still grind out the result, get the points, keep themselves well in the title race. That's all you can do. Yeah, and when you've got Bunny Shaw in your team,

it kind of helps a little bit, doesn't it? Susie sprinkled the love on Myra Ramirez earlier, Sophie. Sprinkled some love on Bunny Shaw. Some people have labelled her the best forward in the world right now. Do you agree? I think it's hard to disagree. Very willing to spread some love on Bunny Shaw because I just think she's absolutely phenomenal.

You know, what she brings to a game, I think everyone will look to her goals, obviously, and those are incredible. But I think it's everything else as well. It's a whole package that you get with her as a centre forward and I thought she really epitomised City's energy on Sunday against Liverpool the way that she was coming back deep to influence play and try and transition into attack and get everything started being on the end of the things in the box and And I think that goal at the end where she just goes toe-to-toe with Nifahi and just shrugs her off in the end and gets that shot away is incredible.

But there was a moment, I think, in the latter stages that really stuck out for me. The ball was on the touchline and there was a gaggle of players around it and she was just shouting at the ref, shouting at her players to get involved and get in the energy. And you could tell that that's where the source of you know enthusiasm and fire comes from right from the front to the back but she is epitomizing that completely and it's just a whole package with her um but yes I would say that at the moment she is probably the best forward in the world yeah she's got leadership qualities as well which is really important um quick word on Liverpool.

Well, not a quick word, a good word actually, Susie, because they started off well, but they sat off more and more as the game kind of drew on. How do you analyse Liverpool's performance? I mean, that's inevitable, right, when you're playing City, that you're going to end up sort of backs against the wall a little bit. They had some decent spells and decent chances I think it's unfair to like lay too much on a performance against a team like City for a team like Liverpool um I don't think they've

necessarily kind of looked the team that they were last season, which is disappointing. But then I'm not sure they've kind of had the budget to manoeuvre in the transfer window in the way perhaps they would have wanted. Obviously, we're seeing the fruits of Olivia Smith's entry into the team, but the fact that she had to go off injured and then they're struggling to sort of make things happen or have anyone with that kind of like electric drive that she does and sort of slight fearlessness it speaks to the depth of teams outside the top three um which is where the trouble is i think they did really really well to cling on the way they did defended brilliantly just when you're playing someone like bunny shaw like you just that you

know sometimes you just you're not going to find an answer to that like she's just too good so yeah i don't think this is a game that will be season defining for them but i think they could be in a little bit of trouble further down the line um because of the sort of the way everyone else has elevated this season as opposed to necessarily them sort of going backwards, but just standing still a little bit. I think to that point, you only had to look at the goalkeeper situation. Rachel Laws got injured or got hurt during that game, but because Tegan Micah is injured as well, and their third goalkeeper is now at the Under-17s World Cup, got called up for England.

She had to stay in the game when she probably should have come off. And you could see that with some of her movement and the saves that she made or the lack of at times, I think, because she was hurt. So that just shows, I guess, it's an example Matt Beard was saying before the game that they tried and tried to get an emergency goalkeeper. But at this time of the year, the teams with deep goalkeeping pools are in the Champions League.

So they're not going to give them up at this point. And so it makes it super hard, I think, for them when you do have to. I think they were preparing Joana Daniels as the backup goalkeeper in case Rachel Laws had to come off. So that just, I guess, shows the problem in depth at times with them. And they were without Matt Beard as well, weren't they? Obviously, he was ill. So they didn't even have their manager on the sidelines.

Obviously, you know, capable assistants, you know, particularly in Scott Rogers, who has been there in the WSL. But like still like that's a, you know, a big blow to not have your manager on the sidelines for a big game like that too. Yeah. Quick word on Olivia Smith though, Tanya,

from a coach's perspective, she's really making a name for herself on Merseyside. Yeah, look, she's a sensational talent. There's no doubt about it. And, you know, I thought she caused all sorts of problems in the first half. She was brilliant to watch. I wouldn't want to have to try and, yeah,

get my team to defend against a talent like that. But she's electric. Every time she picks the ball up, something happens. And you can see you've got experienced defenders in Man City and they're backing away, backing away. You go press, no, I'll balance off. And I think the confusion she causes is great. What I'd like to see is probably a little bit more support around her

to bring the best out of her and maybe not be as isolated as she is. And I understand, obviously, against a team like City, you're probably going to, you know, see that. But I'd like to see maybe in a few of the different games in the WSL this year, players get in and around her and see what she can really do in terms of her creativity, because she's such an exciting talent. And I agree with you you Susie I think when she came off it it changed the game a bit like I suppose Ramirez coming off for Chelsea changed the game as well so those types of players have a massive impact when they're on the pitch they also have a massive impact when they have to come off and you know that's uh that's that's a

shame for the for a fan because obviously it was it was watch. Absolutely. This is just to finish off this little section. We've had a message in from Laurie's Fair Pensioners. City and Chelsea are clearly the best two teams in Europe this season, but why are Arsenal still clearly better than United and Brighton despite their slow start? Are they? We haven't seen them play either of those sides. I think it's a bold claim to say

that Arsenal are better than them like we've not seen that matchup happen I think Arsenal going to be like in their current form are going to really struggle against Man United in particular but also probably against Brighton like you know when your confidence is low and when other teams can smell blood in the way that they can for any team playing Arsenal at the moment then there's no reason why they can't show that they're better than them this season and also I think we need to be careful to not be a little bit too WSL centric there Chelsea and City are doing brilliantly and obviously had great results in the Champions League but are they the best in Europe I think that remains to be seen. Excellent response. That's it for part one.

In part two, we'll round up the rest of the weekend's action and we'll look at a thrilling start to the Women's Champions League. fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit. No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Let's continue with the rest of the weekend's WSL action. Mark Skinner's Manchester United continued their unbeaten run at Leeds Sports Village on Sunday. It finished Manchester United 3, Tottenham Hotspur 0, thanks to a brace from Elizabeth Turland and second-half penalty from captain Maya Letissier. By the way, did you see Mark Skinner say, Elizabeth Turland's got a little bit of Harland in her?

I mean, A, there's rhyming again. Here we go, Jonas Onus. But also, more comparisons comparisons like Jordan Nobbs the other week. What do we make of that, Sophie? And what do we make of another victory for Manchester United, third in the table this season? Yeah, it was

a perfect start, I think, for Manchester United. I think there's still issues that they need to iron out that may be a 3-0 scoreline kind of mask a bit. And it sounds really harsh to be criticizing that but I do think that first half in particular until Elizabeth Turland's goals just before halftime Tottenham were actually the better team and they did create more throughout the game than United but I think what they did is they reacted pretty well and when you have a

Elizabeth Turland on the pitch you can change games in an instant. I thought their press was pretty lax in the first half, especially when they kind of sat off Tottenham a bit, allowed them to get space, allowed them to get chances. But they worked out that down the flanks, that's where Tottenham can kind of falter at times. And they utilised the width of having Celine Bizet at right back rather than in the forward areas to be able to isolate that and that's where the goals came from in that first half.

So I think it's a work in progress. I think they're winning. That's the main thing at this stage in the season, right? You want to just try and build that momentum and then all of the pieces can hopefully fall into place over the next few months. There's still relationships being built on that pitch. I thought it was interesting that we've seen Grace Clinton play more centrally in recent games in the first two games but she was out on the right this time as well a bit more so he's obviously trying

to figure out the best way to utilize the players in his squad and how to the question of using I guess Ellertoon and Grace Clinton in the same team as well, that's still out there. He's trying to find the right answers to those problems. But winning is everything. So that's the most important thing. And I did slightly misquote Mark Skinner there because she could have had a hat trick, Elizabeth Turland, by the way, just denied by the woodwork early in the second half. This is what he actually had to say on her. She's intense in a good way.

She's a person that's always focused. She doesn't dip off her focus, whether it's pressing or whatever the task is, she's all in. I think she knows Harland personally. I don't want to compare the two, but the immense and intense action of both of them, that's how she performs.

And they do know each other. Turland's brother is Harland's sister's partner if you can work that out uh but they both paid for uh is it brian where where he's from uh in norway but yeah anyway she's been brilliant but but how important can she be for manchester united suzy with with with heaping love on the forwards today. Their siblings are in a relationship I think that's the easier way of saying it That's why you write stuff and I just try and speak gobbledygook

She can be hugely influential this season for Man United I mean we saw like the kind of presence that she offers last season when she was at Brighton against a team like in a in a team that um you know wasn't necessarily going to be able to get the best out of her um although obviously we've seen huge improvements in Brighton this season but um like yeah at Man Utd like they've been sort of crying out for an out and out number

nine um I mean i'd say even since before alessia russo left to a certain extent i mean we're sort of seeing some of the issues that kind of plague her at arsenal uh they were there when she was at man united to a certain extent um her and cena black stenius have both struggled to sort of take on that that role of you know being able to grab something with one chance kind of thing the kind of like Sam Kerr's the Myra Ramirez is the bunny shores of the world Turland's that kind of player she's a player that will pull something out the bag and uh yeah do something quite special when when needed when needed most both of her goals were really really

nicely done the first one obviously was that superb volley um and just like the positioning the way she shapes her body holds off the defender like it's just so so skillful I thought the link up as well between her and Celine Bizet and Grace Clinton uh for the second was really nice too and a sign that you know kind of they made some really really smart acquisitions in the summer that have really contributed to the side. But yeah, she could be hugely significant this season. Yeah, frustrating afternoon for Spurs again,

though, Tanya. They had opportunities, couldn't make them count. What is Robert Villaham's side missing? Is there one thing? I don't think it's one thing. I didn't watch all of the game but the the bits that I watched I felt you know he's spoken a lot hasn't he about wanting to be a side

that you know play his way possess the ball um but I felt it was a little bit labored if I'm honest I felt like they they had possession but they they didn't move it quickly enough and they didn't I suppose disrupt Man United structure in the second in the second half in particular enough and they didn't, I suppose, disrupt Man United's structure in the second half in particular enough. And so for me, I think it's just about, and I don't know whether that's maybe a bit of confidence. Again, it's early in the season, you know, trying to get some connectivity between players. But I think for me, it just feels a little bit laboured. So I just think that intensity and that ball speed, you know, something we saw a lot from them last season just seems to be missing a little bit. So that for me is like one of the most glaring things. I think sometimes because of that ball speed, they create their own problems

and allow teams to sort of get the press on and, you know, win the ball back in areas that maybe they don't want to be giving the ball away in. Structurally, they don't look terrible. There's not like a massive big issue there. I just feel like if they're going to play that particular style, they've got to move the ball a little bit quicker with a little bit more purpose and try and disrupt teams because the beauty of having a particular style of play is that the players understand and know what it is you're going after.

But the downfall of that is that opposition know what you're doing and what you're going after, and therefore you've got to try and get that balance right um you know because if you're predictable which is not necessarily a bad thing i'm not saying it is then you need to make sure that you're doing it and you're doing it really really well um so a little bit more ball speed for me in terms of what they're trying to do would would probably alleviate some of the issues yeah yeah uh back-to-back wins for Brighton. Hard-fought win away to Crystal Palace. It finished Palace 0, Brighton 1, thanks to Bruno Villamala's first-half goal.

We've been full of praise, haven't we, Sophie, for Brighton so far this season, but they did struggle a few times in this match. But maybe they needed it because they showed a grittier side to their game. Yeah, I mean, they came up against it, I think, in Palace, who we spoke about last week when they got their first. They were coming into this one in the back of their first win of the season,

a really big win for them against Leicester. So I think they knew it was going to be a tough, tough one, tough afternoon. But I think that's really important. It's like what I said with Manchester United, right? It's finding the way to win games. And when you show that, it's all very well hitting four goals here and there and beating people quite significantly. But it's those tough moments that really develop the kind of grit and resilience.

And when you're holding down under pressure, and I think, you know, when you have a keeper like Sophie Bagley as well to pull off a save like she did in the final moments to deny Annabelle Blanchard. I mean, that was an absolutely stunning save. And that just shows that they're willing to work hard for each other, I think, willing to work defensively. We talk a lot about their attacking play and their attacking players. You know, when you have Kiko Seike, you know, Fran Kirby, Nikita Paris on the pitch, obviously there's going to be a lot of focus on those players.

But actually, when you can dig in and produce defensive performance like they did, that's a really good marker of what's to come over the next few months. Yeah, Sophie Bagley raised a smile from Tanya there, a player she knows well from Bristol City. Laura Kaminski disappointed with the result, but said that her Crystal Palace side looked like they belonged in the WSL. Do you agree, Susie? Oh, yeah, completely. I've been really impressed with them, as we've said on previous podcasts so far this season, even with the, you know, sort of first three defeats.

They've just looked well coached. I think they always look very, very good in the first half. I think they're sort of catching up with the physicality gap between the Championship and the WSL. And, you know, that's why they're struggling in the second half of matches. I think it's also why they, like another reason why they're struggling is,

you know, the lack of depth between them and the other WSL sides. Obviously, they've brought in some experienced players and some really, really good young talent that we mentioned previously in some of their loan signings from some of the big clubs. But at the same time, you know, they've not got that like depth through the squad there to kind of give them a really, really strong bench.

And they could have had a point easily against Brighton, which I think is a testament to the work they've been doing. I think they learn a lot from their first couple of games. You know, obviously coming off the back of the win against Leicester their confidence was high and you know had Sophie Baggerley not pulled off that absolute sublime save to stop Annabelle Blanchard then would be talking about another point but like the fact that they are you know I know they're we're only four games in season but they're eighth right like And they have a first win off the mark. And none of Villa, Leicester, West Ham or Everton have a win yet this season.

Shows that there is real quality there and that they're not just going to plummet necessarily back down again that easily. It's going to cause some problems for the teams around the bottom of the table at the moment who maybe hoped that they would kind of be their safety net. Yeah, well, let's talk about some of those teams around the bottom of the table. Finished Everton 1, West Ham 1. Both sides looking to get their first wins of the season. Anouk Denton put the visitors into the lead, but an own goal from Camilla Saez saw Everton share the points. Bit of a missed opportunity, Tanya, really, wasn't it,

for both sides to move off the bottom of the table? Yeah, I think both teams would have been looking to get the three points out of that game. So I think they'd both be disappointed, you know, not to take maximum points. And I think, you know, when just touching a little bit there on the point around Crystal Palace, these two teams, West Ham and Everton,

are probably looking around them now, looking around at the bottom of the table, thinking we're in a little bit of trouble here. And I know Everton obviously had a decent result against Arsenal in terms of, you know, the point that they got. But I just, there was the first game of the season when I watched them play Brighton, I just felt like they really lacked any attacking impetus.

And I think I'm watching going, where are you going to get your goals from? And I think that's probably going to be their biggest issue, Everton. And West Ham tend to give away goals way too easily. So, look, there's work to do in and around the bottom of the table there for both of those teams. But I think they'll both be very, very disappointed that they didn't take maximum points. When you're looking at the fixture schedule, that's one game where you're thinking for both teams, we really need to make sure we get something out of that. Yeah. Everton's, that own goal remains Everton's only goal of the season, Susie, which is pretty damning.

Yeah, I mean, hugely damning. I'm very, very worried for them. And I, you know, I take responsibility for having jinxed them so significantly by saying surely they couldn't have an injury crisis like last season in preview pod um to sort of kickstart things but i think we should get marva back on the pods to talk in full detail about just how bad things are going she's in hiding yeah she's she's she's got she's gone awol um like into a pit of despair probably i just really struggle to see things looking up and i'm really really worried about them across the course of the season um given the number of injuries they have um you know they're unlikely to have significant funds in January to be able to do anything particularly special there um and yeah like if I'm um Palace and West Ham in particular then I'm I'm you know quite quite enjoying their slide yeah wow so mean i'm not if i'm them i'm not oh i see i see sorry sorry i see what you mean not quite so mean in that case um so if i am being mean by giving you

the last game of the weekend to to analyze because it was not particularly eventful. Aston Villa nil, Leicester City nil, both Robert De Pauw and Omundi Mikel. Fair to say having teething problems at the start of their WSL careers. They haven't kickstarted it, have they at all? Anything to worry about particularly or they just need a little bit of confidence and momentum? No, I just think it's more about timing and needing a bit more time to settle into their into their squad and get the the things running that they need to get running I think it's with all of the case with these new managers at this stage of the season is you know they're trying to implement things very very quickly and I don't think we'll really see the true picture as

we've said before until probably Christmas about how where things are going to sit um it wasn't the best game I will have to say that I do think it's quite something though when the best players are the two probably central defenders for Aston Villa um I think it was the first time in um a game that they for Aston Villa that players made over 100 passes and both of them made over 100 passes so um that probably that probably shows something from that. But it's a work in progress for both of them. They're both throwing good signs, good bits and pieces here and there. It's just about piecing it all together.

Yeah. Let's head to the Championship, shall we? A change at the top of the league this weekend. Charlton's unbeaten run came to an end. London City leapfrogged them into second with a 2-0 win over their London rivals. Birmingham City, meanwhile, jumped to the top of the table with a 2-1 victory over Sheffield United

on Friday night. History was made. Record attendance 15,387 in the league's first ever time weird derby. Newcastle United came out on top of it, beating Sunderland by two goals to one. And in another first for the championship, Portsmouth welcomed Southampton to Fratton Park. Another derby. Pompey's struggles continued, though, as they suffered a 5-0 defeat.

Finally, Bristol City made it back-to-back wins. They beat Blackburn Rovers by two goals to one at Ashton Gate. Listen, let's talk about the UEFA Women's Champions League. We touched on the English team's results briefly in the first half, but let's take a proper look at what happened. It was a really eventful opening, I thought, but no one, and in fact we didn't, but that's not a surprise because our predictions are terrible, as you know. No one predicted Manchester City beating Barcelona, but they stunned the European champions. A 2-0 victory.

How did they go about it, Susie? Just incredibly well organised. I thought Viviana Miedema ran the show, was sublime. They were defensively really well organised. Just an incredible performance it's hard to describe the game because it was just I want to I was going to say surprising but I think that's unfair because I also wasn't surprised I mean I know we ribbed Tom mercilessly for predicting that City could win it but you know Barcelona are a team, but they're not infallible.

You know, they've got a new manager in too. They have, you know, kind of always had some level of defensive fragility. City have an incredibly well-organised defence. Obviously, Alex Greenwood has been playing out of her skin as one of the best centre-backs in the league for a long time. So in that sense, like whilst it's a surprise, it's also not a surprise. But yeah, for me, I thought Viviana Miedema was the difference. I thought she was just really, really difficult to play against and for them to handle.

And yeah, a phenomenally stunning performance. Yeah, we should really give all the accolades to Tom Gary. We'll hear from him later in the pod, actually. But he did say it and we all laughed at him, which is ridiculous. Chelsea got off to a winning start, 3-2 win over Real Madrid. They were still asking questions, though, Soph, weren't they? They were. I think particularly in that second half, it got a bit nervy in the final stages as well when Linda Caetano scored pretty late on and made a nervy last 10 minutes. So it was a really weird game, I think, that one. It didn't really feel like a five-goal thriller,

which is what the scoreline kind of suggests. It was actually quite dull, which pretty much all Chelsea-Real Madrid games are, to be honest. In the past few seasons that they've met, it's never been particularly fascinating. It's always a bit of a slog, I think, for Chelsea to get there in the end, but they generally tend to manage it. I do think, you know, Real Madrid now with Caroline Weir back, they could be a different prospect this season,

but that's going to take time. She's had a long time out, so they're still finding their feet as well. But for Chelsea, it's about getting off to that winning start, know starting right getting those three points on the board it's a just really good launch pad I guess to to look towards getting out of the group and that's the ultimate main thing at this point in time and the performances that will come as long as they get through that's the main thing. I know we've touched on Arsenal already Tanya but you know we need to go through their torrid night in Germany a 5-2 defeat to Bayern Munich what happened and I mean it kind of makes the the next match against Valerenga a must

win really for lots of different reasons yeah I mean I think if we knew what happened then the the solution would be um Jonas would have grabbed that with two hands but I think Penelohada happened really um at the end of the day super Champions League experience an absolute winner you know she's the type of player like when you want something to happen she's the one that's quite happy to step up and take the bull by the horns so to speak and just go for it and I just felt like Arsenal didn't really have an answer like as soon as that momentum shifted it just it was like it snowballed and there was no ability to stop to stop that momentum and um look I think it's you know to go away from home in the Champions League is um we always used to say make sure you win your home games give yourself the opportunity you know so that's the important

part when you go away from home be hard to beat you know make sure that you've got a um a game plan that allows you to stay in the game and I didn't feel like Arsenal really did that um you know if I'm honest so they'll hopefully learn a lot from that in terms of you know they're still sort of finding their feet in the Champions League it's a really steep learning curve but yeah I just think you know when you've got quality players like like harder on the pitch you can't afford them you know the momentum and the time to influence the game and I thought Arsenal allowed that to happen way too easily yeah they've got a home game next against Valorenga haven't they um by the way um Celtic were beaten 2-0 by FC20 in their first ever Champions League match but the rest of the action continues. Arsenal at home. Man City travel to Vienna to play St. Poulton.

While Chelsea head to Inskeda to face 20. Listen, while we have you with us, Tanya, there's an important few weeks ahead for you and for Northern Ireland. You've alluded to it already. How are you feeling ahead of that Euro 2025 playoff with Croatia? Yeah, excited.

You know, it's been a while since we've been together and we had such a positive last window, you know, obviously the two wins. So really looking forward to getting the group back together. We've had a playoff already once, you know, this group and we were successful in that. So we'll take some real confidence from that. But yeah, look, I think the hardest thing to do

is when you're a team in transition, which we are, you know, we're looking to sort of, I suppose, bring some of the younger players through. It's to continue to win and have positive performances. We've spoken about it pretty much all show. So it's going to be a great challenge for us, but really, really looking forward to getting the group back together and the challenge of Croatia.

Yeah, very much so. Wish you the best of luck with that. England have a couple of games as well. They face Germany on Friday, the 25th of October, and then South Africa on the Tuesday following at the Ricoh Arena in Coventry. Let's head to St George's Park because we would be completely out of date as a pod if we didn't tell you what the squad announcement was. But Tom Gary's up there for us to tell us who's in and who's out. Well, yeah, there are no huge surprises in this England squad from Serena Vigman,

announced here ahead of the friendlies against Germany and South Africa. I suppose the biggest news in terms of recalls is the return of Lucy Parker, the Aston Villa defender, who Serena Wiegmann praised in how she's played this season, back to fitness after injury last term. And we've also seen call-ups again for Frank Kirby playing well at Brighton.

No huge surprise there. And all the big names, although Niamh Charles is out with injury, as expected. The players that aren't in, interestingly, know Katie Zellum, despite her move to Angel City. And Serena Vigman said today that she's not really in their plans at the moment, although they didn't rule that out from changing. And also, there's no Kiara Keating amongst the goalkeepers,

since she dropped back to perhaps being the number two goalkeeper at Manchester City behind Yamashita in the last few weeks. So no Ellie Roebuck either amongst the goalkeepers since her move to Barcelona. So the goalkeepers is Mary Earps, Hannah Hampton and Anna Morehouse. And Serena Vigman admitted there is a very strong competition for that number one jersey in goal for England. There was also a bit of chat today about Chloe Kelly, the Man City winger who hasn't really been playing very much for Man City

this season. She's played fewer than 90 minutes of WSL football so far this season but Serena Wiegand said there was never any doubt in her mind that Chloe would be in her squad. She said she's built up credit with them and despite not playing for City then Kelly is part of this Lionesses squad and will continue to be

so. So yeah, Germany coming up at Wembley in just over a week's time. And I think you've got a squad full of depth, a lot of competition for places. And Serena Wiegmann seems quite happy at the moment with their preparations ahead of the European Championships next summer. Thank you very much, Tom. And thank you for not gloating about Manchester City's prediction as well. So the international farewells continue. We feel like there's been a lot of retirements,

hasn't there, at the back end of the year. French midfielder Omandine Henry announced her immediate retirement from international football. She's 35 years old, won 109 caps, scored 14 goals and was last seen at the Olympics this summer. This is what she posted on X.

After many years of passion, challenges and unforgettable memories, it's time for me to turn the page. Time for us to turn the page as well. Been a brilliant pod as always. Tanya, best of luck. Thank you. Thanks for having me on, guys. We'll see you again soon, no doubt. So, safe journey to the Dominican Republic.

Thank you. This has been an adventure awaits. Susie, see you later. I hope it's a better week. It's going to be an interesting week, that's for sure. Absolutely. Right, we'll round up all the international fixtures next week. Keep having your say.

Send in your questions to us via X or emailing us, don't forget, at womensfootballweeklyattheguardian.com. And as ever, a reminder for you to sign up to our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts. Sign up. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Sal Ahmad. Salamat!

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