The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Underdogs bite back as Germany and Brazil crash out – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

Faye Carruthers is joined by Jo Khan, Chris Paouros and Claire Rafferty to wrap up an explosive final set of group games

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starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected, be Zen. This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Wow, wow, wow. This World Cup is just the gift that keeps on giving. Shocks galore to bring you. Off you pop, Germany. The two-time world champions are out, but Morocco make more history. The second lowest ranked team in the tournament are into the last 16. Incredible scenes for them.

Marta bows out of the international stage after Brazil are knocked out with Jamaica making their own history reaching the knockout stages for the first time as to South Africa so much to unravel as we look ahead to the last 16 plus we'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly women's football weekly is supported by google pixel the only phone engineered by google and proud partner of the england teams search google store to find out more oh i love this we have a pod debutant already. Jo Khan, Assistant Sport Editor for The Guardian in Australia, covering all the games out in Melbourne. How are you doing? I'm very well, thanks. Great to be here.

Absolutely. Great to have you. Delighted. And we'll catch up with everything that you've been watching recently as well. Chris Poweros, a debut for this World Cup. Obviously a regular on Women's Football Weekly normally. But how are you? How much have you been enjoying the tournament? I have loved every minute of it, Faye. Honestly, it's a gift that keeps on giving this World Cup.

Yeah, it really is. It's been astounding. Claire Rafferty, how are you? Very well, thank you. I'm just full of excitement after the action today and uh for the last however long it's been it feels like it's been a while hasn't it the group stages oh yeah they have gone on for a fair while but I tell you what I could have had them go on all over again because it's just been a delight to watch so many thrills and spills and

shocks just a quick tweet from Sue who has sent are we going to have a rethink of the winner picks needed? I think that might be the case. Chris, who are you going for? Well, I mean, it is a great point. I mean, I suppose my heart is always going to say England, particularly after that last game. But maybe on what we've seen so far, you're probably looking at maybe, I don't know, Sweden or Japan. But I'll stick with England. Why not? Back to back. Euros in the World Cup. Come on. Yeah. Raph?

I'm going Japan. Jo, I just need to let you know, we've got a little bit of history on this pod of being terrible at predictions. So basically anybody we predict to win is likely to go out at the group stages. So who are you going for? We can't, you know, that can't happen now

because the group stages are over. But who's your winner? Well, my heart says Australia, but my head says Japan. I've watched a lot of Japan. They've been so impressive. I can't wait to see what they're going to do. Right, let's finish off Group H, shall we? Because it was going down to the wire anyway,

but it looked as if potentially Colombia and Germany would easily sail through eventually because of goal difference, but actually not the case on Thursday. The group stages concluded and what an absolute stonker of an evening it was down under, just bonkers with two-time champions Germany out after 16 minutes of added time at the end in Brisbane. The team ranked second in the world were dumped out after a one-all draw with South Korea. South Korea, who, you know, were pretty much effectively out anyway, had nothing to play for but pride after losing their opening two games,

but still were in a sniff of going through if other results went their way. Meanwhile, in Brisbane, Morocco ranked 72nd in the world and at their first ever World Cup, who let's not forget were beaten 6-0 by Germany in their opening game, beat Colombia by a goal to nil to remarkably book their place in the last 16. I mean, I don't even know where we begin, Jo. It was just an extraordinary couple of hours of drama. It's not great for a podcast, but I am like still a little bit speechless after what just happened, particularly the Morocco game finished first and just watching them while they waited to get that result come through. And then when they finally heard it and just jumping up and down, that was just incredible. I was actually at the first, theocco germany game in melbourne um where the germany won six

nil and i just would never have thought that this would be the result in group h after that no it was just amazing wasn't it in germany just didn't even really turn up claire they look completely out of sorts you know and i watched them in the opening game actually and i said that they had some other gears to go up and then i did the columbia game and they didn't deserve to win that game at all. And I don't think they deserve to win this one either. They didn't. You're right, Faye. I was sitting there expecting, you know, at the beginning of the tournament,

you think Germany, you know, hands down going to be going through with ease. They just didn't really produce, did they? I think it was quite frustrating. It was an impressive display from South Korea in terms of defensively but Germany didn't actually ask too many questions from them they were quite predictable I think obviously when when pop equalized it was just like what other gear did they have it felt very predictable Korea were very you know aligned with how they were going to try and break them down and it just it just was weird.

I don't know how to explain it because I was always expecting a last-minute winner from Germany. But actually, when I think about it, was it ever going to come? Because it didn't look like they were exciting or explosive enough to actually create that. Yeah, I put that in the group, didn't I? When Cho was down for such a long time

and ended up being stretched off, I did think, oh God, this is just playing right into Germany's hands and they're just going to get this ridiculous 15th added time, extra minute. I can't even add it on. What would it be? 90 plus 15, 105. No, that's not even right, is it? Yes, it is. 105. Oh God. I'm glad I present a podcast and don't do maths or anything, you know, life-saving with my life. So much credit we need to give to South Korea, though, Chris. I mean, we say they had nothing to play for. They had an outside chance of qualifying, but they put in such an incredible performance. And I feel as if Colin Bell got it tactically spot on to try and nullify everything Germany threw at them. Related to that question from David, is Park marking Pop

the best tactical substitution we've seen at this World Cup so far? He definitely got it right. And I think, you know, I was laughing at one point, it looked like they were playing a back nine. But I mean, why wouldn't you? Because actually, you know, like you say, they had an outside chance, but they've gone down in history now because they prevented Germany for the first time getting through to the knockout rounds of a World Cup which is incredible and you know it's why you have to love tournament football you know beating Morocco 6-0 and then not proceeding but as Rastra said they didn't really deserve it because you know it was your it was your sort of it's all of our experience of what it means to be Germany in a in a tournament that meant we thought that they might score in those last minutes they didn't really show anything sort of it's all of our experience of what it means to be germany in a in a tournament that

meant we thought that they might score in those last minutes they didn't really show anything during the game to say that they were playing through the middle the whole time and that's because they cut them off at the wings south koreans did a brilliant job and it was nice to see um cho score that goal i thought she took it with um with great aplomb and actually having watched her a little bit this season at bris Road, it made me think that actually Spurs might have been playing her in the wrong position. She's actually a free agent now, isn't she? And I think she's 35. But, you know, I'm sure people will have seen that performance in particular and thought she's still got something to give. And I really hope that her injury isn't too bad,

as I say, stretched off in stoppage time eventually. And the Germans did have opportunities. Two chances from Clara Bull in the first half that went completely begging and she was at close range and could have finished both of them properly. Alexandra Popp hit the post as well. You know, I just kind of think they had their chances. They just didn't know how to take them. We'll check in on the other game as well, which was another seismic result. And I watched Morocco in that opening game against Germany. And I said that they had more about them than a 6-0 scoreline gave them credit for. But equally, Jo, if I told you at the beginning of the tournament that Morocco and Colombia would be progressing from Group H, what would you have said? I wouldn't have believed you. I mean, especially after that first game. But I do agree because even though it was a 6-0 scoreline in that first game, their counter-attacking was impressive and their pace. And, I mean, they were also, you know, they revealed some flaws

in Germany's defence. But were they going to go through to the round of 16? No, I don't think so. But they've also improved from game to game in this group stage, I think, which has been really incredible to watch. Yeah, I feel like they've been joyous. They've made history on more than one occasion as well. And actually, Claire, we've seen in this World Cup how close the gap is now.

We've talked about it on this pod regularly, but now the group stage is over. I think we should focus a little bit more on it because over the last few years the gap has definitely closed between the top teams and and the lower ranked teams and I feel like the rankings should just go out the window scrap them and start all over again because we're now seeing teams competing like we've never really seen before yeah and as a defender I actually love to see it sometimes we see that you know the the higher ranking teams be nullified to almost like a boring level where they can't penetrate and we want to see these high scoring games. But actually, what I love to see is that gap improve in terms of organisation, in terms of the players knowing their roles, nullifying the threats. And that's what exactly we have seen. I think that's the first step when we look at the long-term development of a team. We have to start with defence first.

Maybe I learned that from Hope Powell because she was very defensive minded, but at England, that's where we started. Very much dish and wave, you know, training, really drilling into us how to defend first in order to actually attack. And I think we've seen that develop in some of these lower-ranked teams in terms of how to stop the threat. The next step up is how to then progress from that, how to actually link between the midfield and actually interact with the forwards and create goal-scoring opportunities.

Because, yes, it's been great to see some of these big-name teams go out, like Brazil and Germany, but we now want to see these teams develop further in terms of you know the attacking level of their performances. Yeah and I feel as if Morocco have had that I mean their goal came from a penalty to be fair Chris Ghislaine Shabak's penalty saved and Anissa Lamari scored it on the rebound but you know you know Rosella Ryan very well from Tottenham and she's been a big attacking threat for Morocco as well. And I feel as if there's more to them than, you know, people maybe think.

Absolutely. And I think you saw that, you know, when Ros came on, she had a couple of really good chances as well, actually. It looked to me at one point it wasn't going to stay 1-0. And so the fact that, you know, sort of at the end of that chances as well actually it looked to me at one point it wasn't going to stay one nil and so the fact that you know sort of at the end of that game as well you're still pushing forward goes to show that what the ambitions of that team were i think the other really kind of exciting thing um for me from a morocco perspective is you know i know we talk a lot about how much representation matters and you can't be it unless you see it and all the rest of it so having a hijab wearing player who's going through to the round of 16 where you're going to have even more eyeballs

I think it's so important for so many young women all over the world to say that they can be footballers too so I just think that's just another like wonderful byproduct of Morocco's progression into the last 16. Yeah Morocco are going to be playing France and actually I think a lot of the Moroccans actually ply their trade out in France anyway don't they so that's going to be interesting because they'll understand how the French play and they've certainly not been convincing in this World Cup so far. Colombia will play Jamaica and that's just going to be great fun and obviously look not getting ahead of ourselves okay because we are not an England-centric pod.

But what it means for England is absolutely huge because they have Nigeria in the next round. If they can get through that game, which is going to be really tough, then they will play Colombia or Jamaica in the quarterfinals, both of which have been absolutely incredible in this tournament so far. Then it could be France or Australia in the semis. So the draw has quite literally been blown wide open, Jo. Yeah, and I'm thinking about things from an Australia perspective, but what it now looks like for us is that if we are able to beat Denmark, who we play in the quarterfinal, is a team that we've already played this year. I mean, Australia beat France in their friendly, you know, was before the tournament but they they showed that they could do that

and obviously England as well earlier in the year we don't talk about that yeah I know sorry moving on but yeah it's completely different you know I had mapped it all out at the start what I thought my predictions were and France is there uh England is there and and Denmark on that side and that's the rest of it's all a bit different from what I had imagined yeah give me an England perspective Raph yeah look I think I don't want to be facing Australia to be honest I think Australia are going to be beating Denmark if England face Jamaica it's going to be almost like the players who did develop through the English system will have a point to prove. If they face Colombia, then I think it's going to be more of an unknown. Jamaica would be the favourable route, even though they have been really strong defensively.

Becky Spencer yet to concede a goal for Jamaica. If we look back at the predictions today, I actually wasn't very optimistic about England, was I, at the beginning? I've totally changed my mind now. And I've turned my top around. And now I've got my England top back on. Just given the China performance, I think the adaptability that Serena Bigman showed

in terms of formations for England, the way that Millie Bright has developed throughout the tournament, and the way that Millie Bright has developed throughout the tournament and the way that players like, you know, Zelim has stepped up. I think there is an unknown about England, which is like what we see in some of these lower ranking nations.

So unknown. I mean, it's difficult, isn't it? I think England all the way, but yeah, I've totally changed my tone now. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I told you, we get all our predictions wrong on this pod, but I hope for once that mine's right because I did tip England to go all the way so I hope for once

I've actually scored myself a goal uh let's see uh that's it for part one in part two we'll check in with how groups F and G played out spoiler alert I've already told you who's gone through but it was also bloody brilliant welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So into Group F we go and yet another shock. The Giants Brazil are out at the group stages for the first time in 28 years after being held to a goalless draw by Jamaica. Becky Spencer with another remarkable showing in goal. She said post-match, I hope they have a national holiday back in Jamaica

for our performance today. It would certainly be richly deserved, wouldn't it? She's kept a clean sheet in every group stage game she's played so far. I want to give the first word to Jamaican journalist Sherdan Cowan from Sportsmax, though, after the reggae girls defied the odds to reach the last 16 for the first time. It's hard to put in words. It's a tears of joy moment as a journalist that has traveled with the team from ever since they started the qualifiers in 2018 when they first qualified

for the workup in 2019. I've seen a growth in terms of the improvement on and out of the field. The fact that these girls thrive when they're boxers against the world, they relish challenges. Not that they welcome the obstacles, but they thrive when they do come both on and off the field. To achieve something like this, four years after they lost all three games, the fans conceding 12 goals and they not only progressed to the knockout stages but they do so without conceding a goal is just remarkable. What it means for Jamaica's football, actions speak louder than words. There will be a whole lot of people celebrating this. There will be a

whole lot of people saying they knew it was coming. There will be a whole lot of people saying they knew it was coming there'll be a whole lot of people saying a whole lot of things but were they there for the girls from the off no was the support not just financially but I mean off the field the crowd support was it always there not always many people didn't believe that the girls could achieve this when the jaw was just done and and we we realized that the girls would get France and Brazil, I was asked a question, can they progress? And I said, it will be tough, but it's not impossible. And someone told me that it's wishful thinking. Well, the girls are proving me right and them wrong. How will it be celebrated back home?

Yesterday, Jamaica celebrated its Emancipation Day. Monday, we celebrate Independence. And I can almost tell you that it is a really Independence gift. It might not be celebrated with all the pomp and pageantry now, but I'm almost certain that after the girls get through the tournament, regardless of how far they go from here, I'm almost certain the government will, through the Ministry of Sport, will invite all members of the team and coaching staff back to Jamaica for a celebration parade. I actually listened to the Jamaica head coach, Lorne Donaldson's post-match, and he talked about giving a cartwheel at the end. And I saw it and he said he didn't, he's not sure if he gave the cartwheel enough justice. He didn't, it was more of a roly-poly, but it was still, you know, pretty impressive. And the celebrations were incredible. And that parade is going to be

something to behold. You were covering this game in Melbourne, Jo. Talk us through it. It must have been pretty special to be there. It was phenomenal. The atmosphere in the Melbourne stadium was almost better than that Australia Canada game from a few days earlier. It was obviously mostly Brazil in the crowd. And to be honest, the game was more one-sided than I had expected it would be I thought that Jamaica might be able to push forward a little bit more they were so solid in defense and like you said Becky Spencer was incredible in goal but also not really tested that much to be honest she had a couple of slip-ups here and there and and Brazil were just not able to be clinical

enough in in the final third on their last ball and yeah they just couldn't break through. No they really struggled didn't they and listen your Spurs allegiances Chris are no secret and as if we just need you to give Becky Spencer the love she deserves anyway player of the match deservedly so yesterday and also Drew Spence in the middle of the park as well the whole team have just been incredible they absolutely have and and it does mean a lot to me from a spurs perspective but actually you know like i grew up in north london surrounded by the west indian community and actually got really excited um about jamaica's progress and the

outpouring of that release of emotion from drew spence at the end of it i don't know if you saw it in amongst the adult she was just shouting we showed you we showed you and you know very well documented around the crowd funders very well documented about how the jamaican football federation has kind of pulled funding from the women's team and so actually to be able to have done this like defying all of those odds of finding their own way there and all the rest of it I'm just so happy for them and I think the most important thing is is that we absolutely make sure that FIFA money goes to them you know because the that pool has risen from 30 million to 110 million dollars they're supposed

to get 60 000 each it better get to them i literally have got goosebumps when you're talking about you know the jamaican team and the moves that they've made considering the circumstances personally you spoke about becky spencer drew spence they're very good friends of mine and i have you know when you're just bursting with pride when you see players actually step up on the big stage, given the opportunity that they weren't given potentially via the route of England, and then showcase the ability that they do have, but also integrate what they have learned from the WSL

and the great managers they've played under into a Jamaican team and also make them a better team. And yeah, I think you spoke really highly of them. I'm just so buzzing for them every time they play. I'm like, come on. I'm just so buzzing for them. Every time they play, I'm like, come on. I'm just so happy because it's exactly that, like getting that opportunity and then absolutely just smashing it.

It's just wonderful. Yeah, it was wonderful to watch. I got a little bit teary actually watching the celebrations. Jamaica boss Lorne Donaldson saying our mentality was that nothing is impossible and they really proved that. He was also asked if they're going to be

the Cinderella story of this World Cup and replied, if we can wear a pretty dress, we'll put it on. There've been so many good manager and players. I'd like to see Drew Svensson in a dress. He never wears dresses, so good luck with that.

The soundbites this year have been absolutely incredible. But let's focus on Brazil, Jo. What exactly happened to them and they had so much flair in that opening game against Panama but they just seemed to run out of steam and ideas really quickly in the games against France and Jamaica yeah I think against Jamaica they were really struggling and not connecting with each other on the pitch like when you saw them play Panama at the start like you said there was flair and their passes their crosses into the box were just you know finding the head the forehead perfectly like

everything was finding its mark and then in these last two games and particularly against Jamaica it was like they couldn't connect anything and they couldn't they weren't communicating properly with each other and then you could also see that that they were getting really frustrated on the pitch when their passes weren't being made properly and you know the runs weren't being met that sort of thing and I mean I don't know what went wrong to be honest they had they were all over Jamaica they had shots on goal they had all these opportunities and they just couldn't connect at the end and it was interesting that they decided to start with Marta and I wonder if maybe she would have been better coming off the bench or, you know, in the 60th minute, something like that. Yeah, I mean, her and Dubinia weren't able to connect towards the end of the game then and just looked really frustrated.

Yeah, I have to make a nod. You know, I talked about being emotional after this game. It was more than just Jamaica going through actually it was watching Marta in a video went viral of her and Jamaica and Manchester City striker Bunny Shaw afterwards with Bunny Shaw looking like she was saying thank you essentially after the final whistle it was a really moving moment and then such a powerful post-match interview as well in which she confirmed as we all expected that this will be the last time we see her at a World Cup. How do you even begin to sum up Marta's legacy, Raph, and the impact that she'll have had on so many generations of female footballers?

I watched that as well and I actually had a tear in my eye knowing the pain it is when you leave the international stage and about what she can take on and moving forward and the kind of waves that she's made in terms domestically for Brazil but all around the world is that she's always pushing for change and I think her lasting message was around that this is the end for her but it's not the end for the team and how do they actually progress from from that moment it was emotional um you could see the tears in her eyes um she has been an absolute like I don't I don't even bring it to words what she means to I mean I don't know her but I feel like I do because of what she's done for the women's game

so what she would have done for people she knows is incredible but what she's done for her federation for the whole of the you know football in general women's football in general is is incredible and yes she's going to go back to her club side and and continue with that but she uses her voice at the right times she saw that opportunity to send the message she did the message was let's continue to invest in this brazilian side let's see how we can actually you know maintain the development in some of these teams where actually it looks great because you've got namata leading the way but actually underneath that what does the infrastructure actually look like not good enough from what she said and i think that is the message she was trying

to say we need more still and you kind of feel as if that's where her future lies maybe going forward is doing something behind the scenes even more than than she is now. We had a nine goal thriller in Sydney France surviving an early scare to fight back and beat Panama 6-3 and the debutants had led after just two minutes Marta Cox's rocket of a free kick from 35 yards out surely one of the goals of the tournament from a side we never really expected that to come from but France eventually took control turned the game on its head Diani scoring a hat trick among the six goals but Irv Renard wasn't too happy with his side despite the victory he said we were 5-1 up with the game in the bag and you see this often

in football it was poor attitude from the girls for a few minutes the devil's in the detail for games like this and this shows the younger girls not to take anything for granted a france still a dark horse going forward do you think joe we've talked a lot on this pod about you know the fact that they're in transition at the moment with a new manager after kareem diacra had left and you know such upheaval amongst the team and discontent. It seemed like they were in a good place, but I'm not sure. I think they still are. I think they still are a dark horse. I mean, in the game last night, obviously there was Wendy Renard and Eugene Le Sommel on the bench as well, resting some of those players.

I think that they've had a few issues in the group stages you know particularly against Nigeria and when it comes to the round of 16 and the knockout they're going to start to to show what they can do and I know even when they played Australia in the friendly before the world cup I think they were pretty clear that they hadn't hit their straps yet and they were getting there and so I think they're going to be pretty potent certainly against Morocco in the round of 16. Yeah we'll see how they get on I mean it's difficult isn't it Claire when you make five changes like Jo said Wendy Renard and Eugénie Le Sommet drop into the bench how difficult is it to find a bit of rhythm? It is because sometimes that can subconsciously send a message to the team

that we don't need our best players on the pitch to perform, which, yes, you know, internally you go, yeah, you know, we need to perform. We've given an opportunity. Like, let's say I was a starting player having, you know, one of the best players being dropped. Yeah, I still need to perform. But actually, what message does that send? And you can't help but, you know,

I almost felt like this was going to happen. Yes, you know, the start to the game wasn't great, but they ease their way into the game without their best team on the pitch. And sometimes you're asking for a strong message, but you're asking it from players who haven't actually, you know, had consistency. And so the fact that they grew into it,

I think that speaks volumes. I think Renard is right to be sending out that message to his team. And I think, you know, any good manager would send the same message out. But it's what we could expect when you're not seeing your best players starting and they haven't had that consistency. Yeah, I still think Panama did fantastically, regardless of the changes that France made. And like with so many of the teams we've seen at this World Cup, Chris,

it feels like the future could be bright for them. They've got a really young team, a player and a captain in Marta Cox who can score absolute worldies. Can't underestimate, by the way, what a powerful moment and image that goal, just after 67 seconds, was. Manager Ignacio Quintana saying, this will be a moment we will always remember. It was like qualifying for the World Cup and that's how we lived it.

I mean, that was some goal as well, wasn't it? And I think that moment for me just made me think you can't make any arguments anymore about the quality of women's football. It's like, forget it at that point, because technically there's no difference, frankly, from my perspective. And I watch a lot of football. And so that was the moment. It was just like, OK, the professionalisation of the women's game

over such a short period of time has delivered such quality. Imagine what it's going to look like in four years' time. So I just think it was wonderful. And I think they did a really, really good job. But I think what's been brilliant for me in this World Cup if you'll indulge me for a minute is that just in this sort of era of individuation if you like it's been so brilliant to see that sense of community so of course there are superstars like there always are and who's not going to get excited about Lauren James but actually what this World Cup is really driving home to us is that sense of community

community amongst the teams community amongst the players and the staff. Hello, Lorne Donaldson. And how much they're doing all of this together, you know, particularly in that fight against the various federations. You know, they're fighting to be recognised. They're fighting for, you know, the basic funds for basic kind of camp, you know, sort of facilities, etc. And that sense of community and unity is what football means to all of us it's always been about that you always remember who you were with who you were with in those during those world cup moments right and it's the community that you all love when you're watching football and there's nothing better than that feeling of being together in something whether as a fan you're all rising at the same time or that moment as a a player, when you're all, you know, the ball goes into the back of the net,

and you're all like moving in the same direction. And so that sense of community for me and out there on the pitch is why this World Cup has just been so magic. And you know what, that leads me perfectly into Group G and South Africa, because South Africa because South Africa 3, Italy 2, incredible late drama in Wellington. Tembe Gatlana scoring a 92nd minute winner with South Africa

making history. Not just their first ever World Cup win, but also progressing to the last 16 and dumping Italy out of the competition. We've got another special guest

to discuss this. South African journalist Yanga Solembe from the Daily Maverick sent his reaction to Wednesday's monumental victory. A lot of nervous South Africans will probably have some very short nails at the moment just because of the nail-biting action. But generally in the country, the consensus is one of pride, is one of belief now as well,

even though the team is facing a very tough round of 16 opponent in the Netherlands. Banyana Banyana in these last few weeks have shown that for them, the sky is the limit. And of course, even if they do fall to the Netherlands, I think they've done quite well for themselves. They've rewritten the history books at this tournament. And I think in South Africa, people are just elated for them. And obviously, there are little girls out there and little boys looking at them and thinking, you know, if these people from my village or from my town

you know can rise to the stage and and to what Banyana Banyana have done why why can't I so you know they've they've planted a seed in in someone's mind there's some little boy's mind some little girl's mind from now on it's a knockout match. Anything can happen. It will be 11 against 11. Obviously, the hope is that despite the odds that's stacked against them, Banyan and Banyan can continue raising the South African flag

at the World Cup. I know we've already said it about 10 times already in this pod, but this World Cup truly is the gift that keeps on giving, Joe. actually again i was twice in tears yesterday pathetic really uh but desiree ellis's post-match was just a delight the south africa manager and this tweet from rich laverty friend of the pod sums it up perfectly when you consider south africa's players sat out their final pre-tournament friendly jamaica needed aFundMe and Nigeria's head coach had openly criticised his federation. It's incredible all three have qualified for the second round. And that's exactly what Chris is saying there and what Raf said earlier on.

But how good was South Africa to do that? It was incredible. And there was this really great moment in Melbourne because at the final minutes of this match, everybody who was covering the Brazil-Jamaica game was in the media centre in Melbourne and everyone just stopped to watch. Sweden was just finishing at the same time, but everybody was locked on Italy and South Africa and it was pretty obvious that everybody wanted South Africa

to hold on to it. And, yeah, just incredible buzz and tension. And then when they did, yeah, the relief and the excitement was palpable. And like you said, these teams that have been able to get to this stage despite the hurdles that they face, it is incredible. I mean, I think that it is also important to kind of think

about, you know, Canada who have gone out, who also faced a lot of challenges with their federation and you know perhaps that played a role and then on the other side of things there's Morocco who've just gone through and really an example where their federation their country has absolutely invested in their game to help them get to this point. So we're kind of seeing like all sides of this issue. And some of these teams are able to come through, but then these issues are dragging down other teams. So it's kind of a mix, but really exciting, mostly. It's amazing to see the growth from the South Africa side as well, Raf.

Back in 2019, they lost all three games out in France but Desiree Ellis their manager who was one of the founder members of the Banyana Banyanas back in 1993 has just transformed this side completely yeah and with that it's belief that these women can be what they want to be I always say that football is the most powerful tool for change. And this is a great example of seeing that. Behind the scenes, it's been difficult, much like we've heard stories from other nations. But the fact that the power of the ability of someone

to galvanise a whole team and create an identity to change the whole dynamic and social perception from a country and around the world is just incredible. I mean, this is quite an emotional pod today, isn't it? Considering all the kind of the wins and victories that we've seen, despite some losses for some of the teams. But I think that I actually remember playing South Africa, I can't remember what year it was, but it was maybe in prep for our 2011 World Cup. Hope Power was the manager at the time and we turned up to play them.

And it was like playing against a Sunday league team. And you felt like almost like in a certain way, like I wanted to be able to give to them because they didn't have the opportunities and coaching and infrastructure that I always speak about that we had and that was ages ago and you can see how a stability in terms of management and in terms of a few key roles and leaders within a team can actually change the dynamic of the whole outlook of a nation and that's exactly what we've seen and I'm just over I'm just so happy for them I'm so happy for the nation I'm just so happy for women's football yeah just a quick one on Italy Chris and what it means for them I mean it's not going to be

received very well back home you would have thought they were so poor at the Euros last summer as well a horror own goal from Benedetta Orsi probably a metaphor for their tournament really yeah and I thought the same about Germany today as well actually to be fair about Italy it was like I think you probably have to go back and figure out what's gone wrong because something's not right for both of those teams to to go out in and in in such a fashion for Italy there as well I mean not to take anything away from South Africa because it was absolutely glorious of course but I guess you're going to go if you're Italy now you're going to go back and go okay what do we need to do to to rebuild and figure out what's what's happening

because I think that as you say that own goal was a was a perfect metaphor for it and you know if you're if an own goal is a metaphor for it you've got to figure out what you're going to do about it but you know like that Desiree like you just said about that Desiree Ellis interview it was absolutely I absolutely loved it made me look her up and her Wikipedia page told me something that I didn't know which was that she played for Spurs ladies as they were for 11 years and scored 231 goals in 330 games, which might make you think, Harry who? Absolutely. Final game of this group.

I mean, it was comfortable in the end. Sweden wrapping up top spot in Group G, a 2-0 victory over Argentina. They made nine changes from that 5-0 win over Italy, having already confirmed their progression to the round of 16. Had to wait over an hour to break the deadlock against Argentina, but their quality shone through. Goals from Rebecca Blomqvist and a late Ellen Rubinson penalty sealing yet another impressive win. I mean, Argentina did frustrate them and put on another decent show themselves, Jo, but ultimately Peter Gerhardsen's side just too good. Yeah, looking really strong after,

I think, a little bit of a slow start. Well, credit to South Africa, were really good against Sweden in their first game. But then just blew them away, really. I mean, I think they're going to potentially go quite far, obviously, against USA next up, which is going to be a great game. You're there in Melbourne for that one, aren't you? That's on Sunday, 10 o'clock UK time. What do you make of that? I mean, that's two of the favourites going head to head. I mean, based on what we've seen so far, I would be pretty worried

if I was the USA right now. I'm very excited to watch it. I'm very excited to watch it as a fan and not be working for the first time this World Cup, which is going to be really fun. Oh, that's even better. Oh my goodness me. I feel like I've been able to watch as a fan for all games, even the ones that I've been reporting on. And by the way, I've been so lucky. I've had some absolute crackers this tournament so far, but we have a complete round of 16 lineup. We've got there already on saturday switzerland will face spain and japan will face norway 6 a.m and 9 a.m respectively uk time there on sunday netherlands will play south africa that's 3 a.m if you want to set your alarm clocks for that 10 o'clock in the morning sweden against usa which joe as she said is going to as a fan. Then on Monday, England fans up against Nigeria, an 8.30 UK time kickoff,

followed by the co-hosts Australia up against Denmark. That's 11.30. And then on Tuesday, Jo's going to be at this one in Melbourne as well. Colombia against Jamaica. That's going to be so much fun. And that's followed by France against Morocco at 12. A quick one from all of you what is your standout tie or the match you're looking most forward to start with you Chris. I think I'm going to put England Nigeria aside because again that's just emotional

and I think we've just touched on it I think it's got to be Sweden against the USA yeah I think there might be an upset on the card so I think that's going to be exciting. Or would it be an upset I don't know don't know don't even know if it'll be an upset on the cards, so I think that's going to be exciting. Or would it be an upset? I don't know. I don't even know if it would be an upset. That's the thing. Raph, what about you? I'm going Colombia-Jamaica. I think that's going to be a close-fought game, and I'm going to put my

money on, but I'm not going to bet, obviously, on Jamaica. Do you know what, Jo? I mean, you're going to be at both those games, so you're in for a cracker if our predictions are right. But don't forget, our predictions are terrible on this pod. So they might be goalless and boring and go to penalties. Let's hope not. What would be your standout pick? Are you going for one of the games that you're at or something different? I think I just have to go for Australia. It's hard, potentially hard for people outside Australia to comprehend the significance of this moment,

of this game for football and women's football in this country. It's going to be huge and I think they can win. If they play like they did against Canada and potentially they've got Sam Kerr back as well, I really think they can win. And what that means for the sport here is huge. Massive, massive bunch of games. Really looking forward to them.

Jo, it's been a brilliant debut from you. Hopefully we'll speak to you again soon. I hope so. Thank you. Chris Poweros, always a pleasure. And do you know what? I don't care that we've got emotional about it on this pod. That's what we're here for. It's been a cracking round of group stages.

See you soon. See you later. Raph, always a delight. See you later. Raph, always a delight. See you later. Take care, Faye. Right, we're going to give the final word to Robin who just simply tweeted us what the hell has just happened? We're with you, Robin. We're with

you. We'll be back on Monday after we've had a lie down to round up the weekend's round of 16 ties and a reminder you can get in touch with us via email on womensfootballweeklyattheguardian.com. Women's Football Weekly is produced by Lucy Oliver. Music composition was by Laura Iredale. And our executive producer is Max Sanderson.

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