The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - Were Emma Hayes’ comments about Eidevall fair? – Women’s Football Weekly podcast

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzanne Wrack, Sophie Lawson, and Sophie Downey to discuss the Continental Cup Final and WSL action

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starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. This is The Guardian. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So much to get through after Arsenal end Chelsea's hopes of a quadruple, winning their seventh League Cup title. But it's the afters we're all talking about after pushing and shoving on the touchline leaves a sour taste. Manchester City take advantage and go top of the WSL, while Ella Toon hits a half century of goals for Manchester United. And an England legend bows out as Steph Horton announces she'll retire at the end of the season. We'll discuss all that.

Look ahead to the England squad as we enter the international break. Plus, we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly is supported by Google Pixel, the only phone engineered by Google, an official mobile phone of Arsenal Football Club, Liverpool Football Club and the England teams. Google Pixel's working with the FA, Arsenal FC and Liverpool FC to close the visibility gap between men's and women's football with the formation of Pixel FC, a collective of next generation creators and

presenters dedicated to covering the women's game. They'll have exclusive access to players, additional resources and content creation opportunities to give women's game. They'll have exclusive access to players, additional resources and content creation opportunities to give women's football the visibility it deserves. Search Google Store to find out more. What a panel we have today. Susie Rack, have you recovered from Sunday yet? Not really, no. But I mean, a trophy and a point on the men's side, like could have been a lot worse. So, you know, I'm here still. Sophie Downey, lovely to see you as always. Have you had a nice weekend? I have been pretty busy with football as always, but yeah, pretty nice

weekend and had the day off yesterday. So winning. Excellent. Winning in life. I don't know whether I'm going to be winning by the end of the pod because we've got double Sophie action. Sophie Lawson, a debut. So lovely to have you on the pod. How are you? Tired, but it's lovely to be here.

Yes. Well, thank you for getting up so early. It's much appreciated. Okay. So just for the purposes of the pod, I am going to call Sophie Downey-Soph and Sophie Lawson, Sophie. Is everybody clear with that? Is this going to work?

Right, okie doke. Let's get started at Molineux on Saturday afternoon slash evening because we ended up being there quite late in the end. Arsenal lifting their seventh Continental Cup in a successive League Cup final victory over rivals Chelsea. Stina Black-Steni is scoring in the 116th minute to get the Gunners over the line in a highly competitive, emotional and at times pretty feisty London derby. It finished Arsenal 1-0 Chelsea after extra time. And the history between these two is so long and it's developed into a

really serious competition between them over the last couple of years we've seen comfortable victories for both sides in the league this season making this showpiece event much harder to predict despite Emma Hayes's domination of Arsenal at Stamford Bridge just two weeks ago which just seems incredible when you looked at the performance, which we will unpick very soon, Susie, but there is a lot to pick. And, you know, I did want to start with the action on the pitch and it would make sense chronologically, but actually it was the aftermath that's kind of drawn all the headlines, unfortunately. So we need to address that first. Just in case you're listening and didn't see what happened on Sunday, let me explain for you.

At the final whistle, Emma Hayes turned down Jonas Eidevall's handshake, instead giving the Arsenal manager a slight push out of her way. According to Eidevall, it was all down to them using a one-ball system at Chelsea's request. But then Aaron Cuthbert tried to use a second ball for a quick throw-in in extra time, which then led to an incident on the touchline, a bit of a kind of standoff, if you like, with cameras catching. Ida Val shouting at the officials before Cuthbert then kind of came over to exchange words with him. That war of words then spilled over into the post-match interviews. Emma Hayes said, I'm not down for male aggression on the touchline. And I told him this. Ida Val responded,

I think that's a very irresponsible way of labelling the behaviour that I have. I don't feel comfortable with that label. I think there's definitely a way you behave in the technical area. There's also a way you behave after the game, being a good winner. But you also need to be a good loser and be responsible in both of those situations. I'm happy with the way I conduct myself and others need to look in the mirror and see if they're happy with themselves. Oh, deary me. Susie, what did you make of Emma Hay's comments first and foremost after the game? Were they justified? I mean, I was quite disappointed with them, to be honest. I think, you know, fair enough to call out Jonas for sort of touchline antics.

Like, I'd actually thought it wasn't that bad in this instance, to be honest. And she was caught out a little bit, right? Because she said, oh, I didn't like him squaring up to Aaron Cuthbert. And he didn't. Aaron approached him and they don't get that close at any point. So I'm a little bit baffled by that but I just the use of the phrase male aggression I think is really dangerous because I think it's it's wrong to equate what took place in that game and what we know of Jonas with a sort of generalized aggressiveness towards women

I think that's not not fair and not right to do and I think he was right to you know kind of take umbrage at that label being put on him it's a bit disrespectful towards people who are victims of you know real male aggression so I didn't like that turn of phrase I think that was was a little bit irresponsible and I do think it was a little bit deflection tactics from Emma Hayes which is she's really like yeah I'm one of her biggest fans but she is really really really good at protecting her team from a poor performance and for me that's what this looked like and it's worked right because it's been all the headlines is what we're talking about top of the pod before we talk about the the performance in the game so like i do think it

was a tactical move from emma but that her wording was was very very poor and like i say caught out because i don't think a lot of it was actually true you know the fronting up to erin cuff but that kind of stuff i just you know he shouts at emma and the what looks like the fourth official or some chelsea coaching staff or something about something about this multi-ball attempt when Chelsea had blocked use of the multi-ball system before the game. And that's sort of it. And then Aaron approaches him. So yeah, I just found the whole thing post-match quite distasteful from Emma in particular. I thought Jonas handled it pretty well. Obviously, he's got a little bit of form on touchline antics his first game against Chelsea when he arrived in the league his

celebrations obviously do a lot of criticism I actually interviewed him around his 100th game a month or so ago and he talked about that and one of the things we chatted about was the context of it of him having left his one-year-old twins in Sweden, had not been able to move them and his wife over yet, them having one training session before that game, him having supposed to have brought his family over and then not been able to, so hadn't seen them for ages. So there was a lot of pent-up emotion in that, that he said he doesn't regret,

but he probably wouldn't do the same thing again. I think there's important context there. And then you've got the weird incident with Martha Thomas against United when she goes in high on Beth Mead again not long after Beth Mead has come back from quite a serious injury so you can understand frustration there but the way he sort of screams at Martha Thomas is completely inappropriate but I don't equate either of those with his antics in this game. And I think it's unfair to sort of try and generalise and paint a pattern of him being some kind of monster

on the touchline. I think that's not right. And to also sort of make it a male aggression thing, I think is wrong, personally. Sophie, where do you stand on this? Layla asks on X, aggression on the touchline,

Wenders getting annoyed and being passionate cross the line? Were both parties aggressive? What do you think? I think it's tricky because we see it so much in the men's game more than women's really. You talk about a club or someone running up and down the touchline and you know football does sort of bring out sort of the emotions in all of us and that sort of extends to those in the dugout

I think we see it more from Jonas rather than others in the game but I think he's matured as well over the years that includes

his time in Demar Svenskan and I don't think he strays over the line I think these days he knows exactly where the line, I think these days he knows exactly where the line is and he's pulled himself back quite a lot

I generally agree with what Susie said again, male aggression it feels a little bit much for I think what is a very heated moment, there's about 70 seconds left

of the stoppage time in extra time in a cup final. I think, you know, emotions are going to be frayed anyway. We saw what happened with Frida Monnum. So there's more and more context. And I think then you've got this little shove afterwards. And that's, again, less than two minutes after that little bit of Roxxxion's, during that little stoppage with Cuthbert. So if it had been 20 minutes later, I think probably Emma's slightly different in her headspace. You can see as he comes over for the handshake, she's telling him off about it already.

So I think it's kind of gotten blown up and it's a bit like the Conte Tuchel handshake but yeah it's a tough one to know where the line is overall in terms of what we what is acceptable or not acceptable in terms of how someone conducts themselves I think you know when someone's gone over the line like we

saw with him and Martha Thomas but that is an isolated incident of that degree of going over the line or that word that I can't remember because it's so early in the morning. But I think generally what we do see is he pulls himself back and he doesn't go too far. And as the game grows, we'll probably see other coaches coming in, whether that's from elsewhere in the women's game, the men's game.

And then I'm sure everyone will be conducting themselves in different ways and we'll continue having this conversation as it goes on. But I think it's quite normalised in men's football. It's just we don't often see that type of emotion in the women's game. Yeah, I also thought it was a little bit cheeky that emma in the post-match said he got a yellow card and you know she never had a yellow card in her sort of however long career 12 years at chelsea or whatever it was and i thought that was a little bit cheeky because he got the yellow card for celebrating the goal um and running onto the pitch when they scored the winner in the what you know with three minutes to play or whatever it was so i thought it was a little bit cheeky to equate those two things

because I imagine she would have celebrated pretty wildly as well, maybe not run quite as far onto the pitch as he did with his almost entire staff. But to almost imply that that card was for the aggressive behaviour, I think was a little bit deceptive as well because no one had seen it, no one had seen the booking and it was really hard to pick out what had actually happened. So afterwards everyone was sort of, you know,

kind of assuming that it was for that incident and then, you know, we sort of discover that it's actually for a celebration and you're just a bit like, it's not quite the same thing. Soph, what did you make of what happened on the touchline? Yeah, I think it was, we've seen it. I think it's been blown out of proportion a little bit because I think it was in the heat of the moment.

And I agree with everything that Susie kind of said about, you know, it being a bit of a deflection tactic. I also agree that the turn of phrase probably wasn't quite right. I mean, as we know, and as we've said already on the pod, you know, Jonas is known for being passionate and fiery, and he can sometimes maybe go very close to that line. But I think in the terms, especially when you see the replay, in the terms of this instance, it's not quite the right turn of phrase

to be using to describe those actions. And it's a cup final and I think we also have to it's a really interesting one because we also have to think about what we want our footballers and our coaches to be right and we always cry out for characters in the game and we say there's not enough characters in the game these days and then we sort of when someone is a character we sort of go well maybe that's too much so I think it's trying to find that balance isn't it between between the characters and the passion and everything that football brings up in all of us that kind of emotional side I mean

we're all passionate about it and we all scream at times and and cheer at times so I think it's kind of um but then when we see on our cameras it's it's kind of right in our faces. So I think that's the conversation maybe that we need to have about what we think the behaviour is, because I personally love characters in the game. I love passion. And as long as it doesn't go over, then I'm quite happy with it. It's interesting that we've now got the international break. So no more interviews on this for a couple of weeks. And by the time, you know what it's like when the international break happens, everyone forgets what had happened just before the international break.

So maybe this will be the last we've heard of it, but we shall see. Let's focus the action on the pitch. It was a game of really fine margins. What did you make of Arsenal's performance, Sophie? How important was lifting this piece of silverware to their season? And actually, to Jonas Eidev Arsenal's performance, Sophie? How important was lifting this piece of silverware to their season? And actually, to Jonas Eidevall's future, bearing in mind it's been such a poor season for them? I thought they were better. I spoke to someone after the game and said, you know, Arsenal

had the better chances. And she just went, did they? But they actually took less shots than Chelsea over the course of the game. They would, it almost looked like the, the Conte Cup final of 2019, 2020, when actually Arsenal had a lot of chances, but just weren't shooting. It felt very reminiscent of that, which is just a very Arsenal thing.

Susie's nodding her head. She knows all too well about Arsenal not shooting. But I, you know, it was, it was not shooting. But, you know, it was margins. And, you know, it felt like it was rolling towards a penalty shootout. You know, I don't know if anyone could have just stomached that after the game and the day we'd all been having. But, yeah, I think Chelsea weren't at their best. I think there is the caveat that they have played a couple of midweek games.

Arsenal haven't. Chelsea also have a lot of injury issues, but they definitely weren't at their best. We haven't really spoken about it because we've been talking about everything else that happened around the game. But it was a solid performance from Arsenal to a point. I think it got quite emotional for them as well with Frieda going down. But, you know, we know they're mostly out of the running

for the title, got knocked out of the FA Cup and there are a finite amount of pieces of silver where you can win. So yes, it takes a little bit of pressure off Jonas for now. And it gives Arsenal time to sort of celebrate and galvanise around. And maybe, as we've seen with other Conte

Cups, it will kind of really help carry them through their last few games and try and make a title fight out of it. They do have that trip to Manchester coming up. Yeah, we'll talk about Friedemannum in a second. But Chelsea's quadruple hopes are over, Susie. The League Cup often viewed as the kind of little sister to the other competitions that they're in but it's still going to come as a big disappointment to Emma Hayes you could see that and all her players as well but where exactly did it go wrong for them on the pitch because they didn't look themselves? Yeah I think Sophie touched on a few of the issues I mean yes they had more shots but they had half the shots on target so So carving out clear-cut chances, I thought Arsenal's back line was really well organised. Even after Leah Williamson went off at half-time with a niggle that they were a little bit worried about at knee,

I thought Leah Kadena stepped in really, really well. Emily Fox dealt with Lauren James exceptionally well, I thought. Really, really kept her quiet for the majority of that game. We saw flashes of brilliance from Lauren as we do. But there was that great save from Zinsberger, a leg out stretch that just stopped it going in at the far post. I think it was a very, very good defensive performance from Arsenal that sort of really kept them quiet up top and then after my ramirez went off i think they really really lacked a proper like center forward threat that she posed in the in the kind of first half and in those early stages obviously that offside goal like showed her quality and what she can do in

sort of tight spaces and stuff but obviously correctly ruled off for the handball of erin cuff but just literally bumping it into a path so there was no question about it but like that was the quality of Myra Ramirez that you were then missing when she went off so I think it was difficult for them because they didn't really have an answer to a lack of goal threat once Myra went off I thought we'd maybe see Kat Macario a little bit sooner than we did I think that maybe could have changed things. And I think when she came on, they looked a little bit more potent again. But I thought it was a really, really resilient Arsenal back line performance. I do also think the crowd played a part. At the start of extra time, suddenly the crowd belted

out North London forever right at the very start. so you just had the Freedom Arnhem incident like everyone is down everyone is tired mind you elsewhere and they kick off to restart the game and that wall of red just erupted in North London Forever and it just really felt like quite galvanizing to me and I imagine that that probably played a little bit of a part just sort of switching people back on in in a way so yeah I think that that probably played a little bit of a part at just sort of switching people back on in in a way so yeah I think that was quite important too. I'd like to see the numbers actually because certainly it felt around Molyneux as if it was very Arsenal heavy the Chelsea fans were on the left-hand side in the uh in the Stan Cullis stand and the Arsenal fans not just in the Sir Jack Hayward stand, but also the other ends of the ground

surrounding the players. So I thought that definitely played a part. I agree with you. Soph, there was that real worrying moment. We've alluded to it the whole pod, but we haven't actually spoken about it specifically as we were going into extra time. Frieda Marnham just falling to the ground, completely off the ball. Medics rushed onto the pitch. I mean, the stadium was just silent. It was really worrying for everybody watching. She received a lot of attention,

oxygen in the end and was stretched off the pitch. But what was really pleasing is that Arsenal relayed the news pretty quickly afterwards that Frida is conscious, talking and in a stable condition is what their tweet said. And they said she'll continue to be monitored closely by our medical team. We're all with you, Frieda. I mean, it was really shocking. We did see that she got on the bus with the players on the way home, which is brilliant. But, you know, whenever that happens in a football match, because we've seen it, you know, people know I'm a Luton fan

and what happened to Tom Lockyer earlier on. I'm not saying that there's any link there, by the way. I'm just talking about a player, you know, collapsing off the ball. But it could have affected both the sides. And actually it didn't. How impressed were you with how Arsenal managed to put their focus back on the game? Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with you. It's kind of harrowing, isn't it? When things like that happen, whatever happens, you know, when a player goes down like that, it's not good to see.

It's not what you want to see. And at the moment, I mean, obviously, health is paramount as well. So kind of all thoughts of the game go out the window in those moments. I think it was quite telling that they got back on the pitch pretty quickly I think they probably had a word that she was she was doing okay because I think if there had been anything more serious not to say that it wasn't serious if you know what I mean but if it was anything more serious I don't think the game would have continued so I think the fact that they did get back on the pitch was a positive sign pretty you know after the medics had done their work for I think it fact that they did get back on the pitch was a positive sign after the medics had done their work. I think it would have affected both teams.

Personally, I think it's never nice when you see, it doesn't matter what colour your shirt, when you see a player or a colleague or someone that you do know in and amongst the game go down, it's going to affect both teams. But I do think the way that Arsenal did kind of collect together you know they're they're her friends as well as her teammates and Sina Black Senes was the first one to go over to her and she's her best mate and that must have been pretty pretty harrowing for her as well and pretty worrying for her so the fact that they did group together and Jonas did get them in a in a huddle and have that word with them

and readjust their their minds to the game and to winning the game. And I think it gave them a bit maybe extra impetus as well. They wanted to win the game for freedom on them. They said that in post-match as well. Alessia said it. And she also said it was kind of written in the stars that Stina scored because they are best friends. So I think they were able to address.

And I think it was quite interesting as well in post-match, Jonas also talked about reacting to stress situations and how they've been really working on that since the Chelsea game two weeks ago. And how he thought in that game they didn't do well when there was stress, or I guess he's talking about the Sox situation there, slightly less serious. But the fact that they were able to ref refocus their minds and and deal with that kind of stress of their teammate going down was quite impressive yeah um quick question from nag on x uh suzy seeing frida collapsing at molyneux at the weekend is there a concern that certain tier three clubs don't even come to games with a physio and have required the wolves and burnley physio for support in recent games that's definitely concerning I think anyone would say that yeah like huge worry I think even

at the top levels of the game more needs to be done to make sure the right equipment and the right staff are on site I thought it was impressive how quickly they reacted in this game it was very very rapid and also like really really great you know despite all the acrimony in this game it was very very rapid and also like really really great you know despite all the acrimony in this game that uh Emma Hayes straight away said to her medical team to get over there as well and to assist them like that's you know what it should be about you know when it's when it's like serious issues like that is everyone just stepping aside and and getting medical staff to the right place and doing their thing but yeah i mean i think there's issue with staff and equipment across the pyramids um not just sort of below the second tier in the second

tier and in the wsl as well so yeah definitely something that needs to be looked at you know i know players don't get the testing necessarily automatically that they perhaps should do on their heart and stuff like they do in the men's game now. So all of those kind of things need to come into the women's game a little bit faster than we're seeing at the moment. Yeah, well, we're sending all our best to Frida. She didn't have to go to hospital, as I said, which is really good news and is recovering at home now.

So hopefully she gets back to full strength very soon. Sophie, a quick word on the goal scorer, Stina Black-Stenius. I mean, she had quite a lot of negativity about her performance at Stamford Bridge a couple of weeks ago, but was picked to lead the line again over Alessia Russo, who'd actually been ill throughout the week, which is why she wasn't able to play from the start. But what did you make of her performance?

It was a really experienced Chelsea back line. She took her goal really well as well. She's a bit of a cult figure, isn't she? And scores some memorable goals in one way or another. As we saw last week, I think it's been up and down for Stina at Arsenal. We know that she's the type of player that Idoa likes. She's strong. She's a good runner. You can kind of move her around a little bit.

You can try pairing her with different players. I thought Lacasse was great as well, just as a comment. But yeah, it's tough. And I think we've also seen with Stina that she's a bit of a confidence player. And once she, you know, and I think it was last season where she got some games under her belt, she really started to pick up ahead of Stina. But, you know, I think you've also got to be able to trust her at times.

And there are times where you might be shouting, take her off, take her off, take her off. If she just gets that right moment, she will score. Or she will be involved and she'll help and she'll make space. And I think it's that the problem that Jonas has had this season is finding the balance with the pieces he's got. So I think there's been plenty of shout to have Lacaz in the team. And, you know, do you play Russo? Do you drop a...

You know, how do the pieces come together? It's been a tricky puzzle. But I you know it's great it's great for Steena's confidence and as Russo said you know she's she's Marlon's best mate on the team if anyone was going to score after what happened it had to be Steena, Kismet, Faye if you like or just a bit of weird football stuff every now and again. Oh yeah, we love a little bit of kismet in football for sure. There was a record crowd for a Conte Cup final, just over 21,400 at Molineux in Wolverhampton for the game. By the way, thank you very much to Wolves

for the Easter eggs that were left in the press room. That was a very lovely touch, much appreciated. Or the FA, whoever it was that put them on thank you the atmosphere was absolutely brilliant as we've mentioned the noise from the Arsenal end particularly in the

victory celebrations something to witness and big kudos actually to Arsenal for what they've done with their fans this season perhaps a lesson for the rest of the league

because they really brought the noise right that's it for part one in part two we're going to round up the rest of the weekend's results, take a look back at the Champions League and look ahead to a busy international break. welcome back to part two of the guardian women's football weekly let's take you through the rest of the weekend's WSL results.

Chelsea's title hopes after that game. Interesting. And we'll reflect on that in a second because having led the Barclays WSL for such a long period, Chelsea are now going to chase Manchester City as Gareth Taylor's side took full advantage of their title rivals being otherwise engaged this weekend. They made pretty light work of a potentially tricky away trip to Prenton Park. It finished Liverpool 1, Manchester City 4.

Three goals in eight minutes in the first half saw them open up a comfortable lead over Liverpool. Lauren Hemp, Jess Park, Khadija Shaw putting their names on the score sheet and Shaw completed her brace shortly after half-time. It was a result that saw them open up a three-point gap over Chelsea at the top of the table and of course Chelsea do have that game in hand though to remember but it was a real statement result Sophie wasn't it Gareth Taylor's side throwing down the gauntlet to Chelsea and as Bunny Shaw said after the game let them chase us yeah I mean we've spoken in part one about it so the Conte Cup

is the only piece of silverware for Arsenal if you're looking at Manchester City's season it's all about the title you know they know

that it's the cliche that every game's a cup final but it is they have to be perfect they know they've got they're going to be

wrestling with Chelsea all the way through and you know Liverpool have shown themselves to be so adept this season. And yeah, sort of eight minutes of sublime football in the first half. And the game just completely got away from the Reds. But we saw some really, really nice sort of flowing stuff from City. We've seen that at points this season. And if they can just keep doing that,

then everyone's sharing a load, whether it's Jess Park, Lauren Hemp, Bonnie Shaw, Chloe Kelly, when she plays, the pieces are all there. You know, they're just, they're rocking and rolling. Yep, they certainly are. We're running out of words, it feels, for Bonnie Shaw, aren't we, Susie?

I mean, she's made 19 league goals for the season after this weekend. Her first goal was an absolute rocket. Her second was a trademark header. But actually, we have to give her credit for the work that she does in the build-up, don't we? Oh, yeah. The first goal, absolutely stunning pass from quite deep to sort of open up the game really really nicely nicely done towards Mary Fowler yeah hugely significant and the finish for that first the first goal she scored was also incredible I mean she's she's basically unplayable you know you

you can kind of pick holes in some of the defending and some of the goalkeeping of laws and things like that in this game but you know I was even thinking for her header like why is she being allowed to head pretty not unmarked but you know jump as high as she can with with sort of no one jumping with her and you sort of squeeze the ball in between Laws and the post and things like that and then you're thinking but it's it's Bunny Shaw. She's just so difficult to mark and so difficult to keep a hold of. And you can't really hold her on the ground.

So you're sort of screwed. So I sort of, whilst I think that, you know, some things could be done better from a defensive point of view, particularly in those first, what, seven minutes or whatever it was. She's just so, so difficult to play against. She's such an intelligent, technically gifted, physically strong footballer. Like, just really, really dangerous. And we'll probably have a big say

in the way the title goes this season. I think that, obviously, you know, the standout game is them hosting Arsenal on the penultimate weekend of the season. I think that is going to have a huge, huge say in where the title actually ends up. Probably a bigger say than maybe we would have said at the start of the season. Matt Beard lamented his side's mad 10 minutes that left him with a mountain to climb. Taylor Hines did pull a goal back late on with a spectacular effort,

although it actually went down as an unfortunate Chiara Keating own goal so that at least will give them something a little bit positive as they look to continue this battle with Manchester United for a fourth place finish Yeah I think he'll be disappointed with the manner that they sort of fell apart in that second half Matt Beard as he says in his post-match but they've got to focus on those positives

and realistically a game against Manchester City, they wouldn't have expected all that much from it. If they can get a draw out of it, I think they would have been happy. So I think they just got to kind of park that and then probably the international break helps. They got to get a few players back from fitness as well. I will say though, that I always think it's super unfair

when a goal like that goes down as a goalkeeper's own goal because the hit from Taylor Hines was absolutely spectacular and she deserves her flowers kind of for it as well as the goalkeeper not doesn't deserve to be blamed for it because literally can do nothing about it it just bounces off her back but yeah I think they've got everything to play for going to into the final block of the season after international break they are very much in that fourth place race they will take United all the way I think they've got everything to play for going into the final block of the season after international break. They are very much in that fourth place race. They will take United all the way, I think. And yes, they've got a few tricky fixtures.

They've got to face Chelsea, but they've traditionally done quite well against Chelsea, more so than against Manchester City. So they'll be pretty positive about that, I think. Yeah, definitely. By the way, final piece of news on Manchester City, a statement released by goalkeeper Ellie Roebuck on Saturday, which was quite shocking. The 24-year-old England international announced on social media she's been recovering from a left occipital infarct. Now, I hope I've pronounced that right. I'm certainly no doctor, but it's essentially a stroke. She stated, thankfully, it's left no lasting damage and reported that she's back in with the team at City. We wish her all the best with her recovery, but it explains why her form has been so patchy and she's just not really played for such a long time. Incredible that she's having to deal with that at the age of 24.

So sending all our good thoughts to Ellie. Let's switch to the other side of Manchester, the red side. United fans treated to a second half comeback at Lee Sports Village with their side coming from a goal behind to beat Everton by four goals to one. Kaccha Schnoys pouncing on an effort

from Maya Letissier to give the visitors the lead before Mark Skinner's side hit back through a Millie Turner header, a brace from Ella Toon and a late finish from Leah Galton. Sophie, how important was it for United to get back to winning ways after the disappointment of the derby last weekend? They're six points behind Arsenal, still just about within touching distance

of that crucial final Champions League spot. Have we written them off too early? No, I don't think we have. I think it's probably been said a lot this season. They overperformed last season, arguably. They came out on the right side of a few 50-50s, stole a few points. And we're just seeing the scales rebalance a little bit this season. We've seen them struggle against the top three and against an Everton team

that has been deeply unlucky this season, have just bounced from injury crisis to injury crisis. I think, you know, they were always going to warm into this game, find goals because they do have that quality and they can definitely show it against teams like Everton rather than some of their other games against the bigger teams. But yeah, hopefully for Mark Skinner, it's a way of picking up some momentum into those important last weeks and trying to remind people that they do have a quality team. And it's not been the best of seasons on or off the pitch, but there is still some pride and some honour to play for. And maybe even, and United fans won't like this,

but maybe a little bit of shop windowing for some of those players as well. Interesting. Ella Toon has put herself firmly in the shop window if she ever did want to leave Manchester United because she received particular praise from her manager post-match after registering her 50th and 51st goal for the club. The first female to hit 50 goals for Manchester United, in fact.

This is what Mark Skinner had to say. That shows how special she is. I hope she goes on to get hundreds. She can be a legend for this club. She's another player whose form has dipped at points this season, Susie, but I mean, it's a real feat

to have registered those kind of numbers at just 24 years old. Oh yeah, brilliant. And like, great for her, obviously she's a United fan through and through

and the feeling of scoring for your club at home can't be underestimated. But like I say, a little bit of a dip in form

at points this season. I don't think that's her fault. Like, I think she's played a hell of a lot of she's still really young she's played a hell of a lot of football in the past few years like the back-to-back tournaments used relentlessly because Mark doesn't really rotate that often I think it's it's no accident that it was when she was dropped for a game or two that she then started to come back into things a little bit once she was back in the side it sort of you know obviously that's not enough of a rest but it sort of I suppose just lifted her game a little bit for me that lack

of rotation in their starting 11 has been a big issue this season because when they've then either had players dip in form which they didn't necessarily have to the same extent last season or that they've had injuries the players coming into the side have not been like WSL match ready like so that's been the issue for me is the depth of experience on the bench they've had like in playing competitive WSL fixtures they've had huge quality there but they've not been getting enough got not been getting enough game time or game or match minutes to be able to to sort of do something really really meaningful um and I sort of look at that compared to what Emma Hayes does at Chelsea and how masterful she is about making sure that every

single player gets quite a significant number of minutes even the most fringe of players and you think that's sort of what you need when you're when you're when you're sort of managing a squad that has to respond to different like different levels of adversity across the season yeah just finally on this game so how frustrated is Brian Sorensen going to be at the defensive errors that let United back into the game? has been on, you know, they can't take their chances. But I think defensively, it was an issue. Millie Turney beat Justine Van Havenmaat at the firepost in the air. And I think he will be pretty annoyed at that because she's very, very tall, Justine Van Havenmaat. So she shouldn't be being beaten in that area. And then for the for Ellerton's first goal, she kind of swipes and misses it the first time round. And because the Everton defence don't

react to it, she has the time to kind of stick out her right foot and misses it the first time round. And because the Everton defends don't react to it, she has the time to kind of stick out her right foot and stick it in the back of the net. So there'll be issues there. And I think that's just been the case with them this season. They just make errors in certain moments. And it's that lack of depth that they had and the injuries and the lack of experience

they have to kind of recover from that. But yeah, he'll be trying to work on that, I guess, over the next 10 days. Yeah, I'm sure he will do. On Saturday, Carla Ward's Aston Villa played out an entertaining draw with Leicester City. It finished Aston Villa 2, Leicester City 2. It was a finely balanced contest,

quite an entertaining game as well, as I said. But Carla Ward has had to shift her team around in recent weeks because of injury. But she seems to have settled on Rachel Daly sitting deeper as a number 10. What have you made of her performances in that area, Sophie? She got on the score sheet as well, obviously, although not posting the same kind of numbers we saw from her last season.

I think it's a move that works. Again, I think it felt at the time like Rachel Daly was scoring quite a lot last season. And there's a lot that's kind of gone wrong for Villa this season. I think they've looked quite shorthanded in midfield. Very easy to bypass if you're trying to attack Villa. So I like the idea of dropping Daly deeper. You know, you can play Daly anywhere on the pitch. She will give you 97 minutes of running and just running and running and running and hopefully scoring.

But yeah, it's a move that works. And I think then you can bring in sort of Sam and you've got other players like French players like McGill. It just gives your attack a completely different complexion. I don't think we've really seen enough of that tweaking and tinkering as the season's gone on. I think it feels like Ward's doing this a little bit late, but they've been picking up points recently, which at one point they were in that little relegation scrap. Now they're nice, they're comfortable.

And I think we're seeing that a little bit more, sort of variation, a little bit better from Villa in their last few games. And it was an entertaining enough game. We had some good goals from both sides. Probably one of, actually, maybe the match of game I wanted to see from Villa earlier on in the season. I'm sure they all just want the season to end, as I'm sure de Leicester, because things have been really tumultuous with the club announcing last week that sacked Willie Kirk following an investigation into an allegation he had a relationship with a player. Jen Foster alluded to what her side have gone through in the last few weeks and credited them for being able to bring a point home in a in a tough game but Susie how positive has their reaction been in spite of the off pitch issues we need to remember as well you know they're going into a historic FA Cup semi-final as well yeah I think these things

can be a bit of a weight off the shoulder as well when they when they come out and are dealt with properly by the club in them in the sort of swift manner they have been because obviously like whilst yes it's tumultuous now what has it been like before before now when you've had this um alleged relationship going on within a club or the you know the rumors circulating about that and and like what kind of impact does that have on an environment a playing environment, a training environment, around match days, like we've got no idea really as to like what that looks like so they're free of whatever problems there may have been in that circumstance now and I think that's probably you know quite a liberating thing in a sense in that you know yes it's not nice to have your manager go mid-season

it's not nice to have club turmoil but they're actually coming out of the the end of the tunnel into the sunshine a little bit hopefully and it might actually be a better place and so I sort of feel like yes it's it's difficult but we're actually going to start to see a little bit of that spill out onto the pitch in hopefully quite a positive way. And they were already doing quite well. So I think they've actually got a lot going for them. I'm quite looking forward to that semi-final because I think it'll be a really exciting match-up

whilst obviously I think they're the underdogs in it. Something that was definitely not an exciting match-up. The final match of the weekend, pretty uneventful. West Ham and Brighton playing out a goalless draw. Wasteful finishing, solid defensiveness, kind of meant that we had a game that was, I think it's fair to say, not a classic. Important point though, in particular for West Ham,

who extended their cushion over last place Bristol City to seven points now but please don't take offence West Ham and Brighton players we're not going to discuss this game because it was really dire. Right the semi-final fixtures at the Champions League are set after the quarterfinals concluded midweek was that too harsh? I hope not please don't tell me it's too harsh. Anyway a much changed Chelsea side were given a stern test by a young Ajax team so if it finished one all on the night and despite Chelsea having a comfortable first leg lead that saw them through should there be any concerns for Emma Hayes particularly bearing in mind what we then saw at the Conte Cup I mean it's important to put context into this that they've played eight games in March, which is absolutely insane. But where do you see it? Yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned, I think. I think you're right. They played a lot of football

this month. She made something like six changes in that game. So there was obviously going to be some disruption, I think. And because they came back home with that 3-0 first leg lead, it gave them a bit of flexibility. I do think Ajax probably poked a few holes in them, especially with the pressing and Cicero and Mucevic's performance wasn't probably the best as well. And they got caught out in defence a few times. So that will probably be a little flag for Emma Hayes about how easily they got caught in those moments. But overall, I think they were just happy to kind of, they got they were 4-0 on aggregate at half time

it kind of gives you leeway to kind of take your foot off the gas a little bit and while Ajax got chances and a goal in that second half they were never going to really trouble them at that point for a place in the semi-final and it's just about doing what you've got to do at this stage of the season

I do think having the international break probably really helps them right now because imagine if they'd gone from that draw into the cup final which they then lost and then have to play midweek this week I think that would have been pretty tough so they've now got what two weeks to get over kind of that side of things and really get ready for that final push for the season. Yeah. Elsewhere in the Champions League, Barcelona, Lyon and PSG all easily progressed to the final four. It means that Barcelona face Chelsea while Lyon will come up against familiar rivals in PSG. We will preview those semi-finals in the next couple of weeks. But let's head back to international action, which is where

we're going this week. Qualification for next summer's Euros getting underway. Serena Wiegmann announced her England squad last week. A few surprises in there. Leah Williamson returning to the fold after missing out through injury in February, while Millie Turner was also awarded a place after missing out the last time. The absence of Letizia though has raised quite a few eyebrows Susie what did you make of the decision and the rest of the the squad in general? Surprised by the omission of Mayor Letizia given the form although you know her error this weekend can be overlooked when we discuss that yeah like I think she's yeah hugely obviously hugely talented I guess she's opted for a certain level of experience. Now we're going back into competitive fixtures again.

I think it's right to bring Mia Williamson back into the fold, although that could prove costly given that she went off at half-time and they didn't want to aggravate or put her at risk of doing more damage to her knee, was the impression that Jonas Eidevall gave. So whether she stays in camp, I know she's actually arrived, but whether she stays or is sent home again and Maya gets called up or something, that could all happen. So things change really fast.

I mean, I think for me, the biggest problem England have is at full-back in terms of depth. And Maya has proved, while she doesn't play at club a decent alternative to Lucy Bronze who is obviously not at the end of her career but heading in that direction and when you've got so few options in the fullback, you need to be keeping those players in the team and keeping them pressed and tested in those areas and in that position as much as possible. So for me, you'd have her in ahead of a few others in that side. But yeah, that's the only real surprise for me.

And I understand them calling Liam Williamson back in. I think that's the right thing to do. Yeah, England kicking off their campaign as they host Sweden at Wembley on Friday night Sophie can we expect a typically tough encounter against the World Cup bronze medalists? Sweden are a strange little team sometimes sometimes they play very good football and sometimes they don't I think we've spoken a little bit about sort of in talking about Mayer in the need to kind to keep evolving the England squad. That's maybe something that Serena hasn't done so much.

In the opposite dugout, Petter Johansson needs to be evolving the Sweden squad. He's been leaning into the veterans a little bit more over the last couple of tournaments. He has pulled up some youngsters this time around, but again, it feels a little bit after the tournament. He has called up some youngsters this time around, but again, it feels a little bit after the fact. So probably going to see a little bit more of a evolving Sweden and that, you never know what you're going to get when you've got younger players coming in. But yeah, they can be a tricky little team as England well know. And, you know, it's a tough group. The group of death, I think it's possibly called.

But, you know, I think there's also the nice thing about the Nations League with how it's worked out for Ligue 1 is you can be absolutely atrocious, finish bottom of the group and you've still got a good chance of reaching the Euros. Madness. Absolute madness. Big news in the Republic of Ireland camp as well,

also in England's group. They have their opener against France. Anna Patton's been given international clearance to represent Ireland after coming through the England youth system. What qualities have they added to their ranks with this call-up, Soph? I mean, they've added defensive quality, especially in a week where Nifah, he's picked up another injury.

So I think they've needed to bring in kind of the solidity from that aspect. I think she's a very good young player. We asked Carla Ward about it pre-match and she said you've got such a good, Ireland have got such a good player on their hands, you know, in terms of both character, but also in terms of her developing defensive play.

I think it's probably, she came through the youth system, she captained the under-23s, but I think it's probably just, there are players that are always going to get lost in that system. You're not going to get everyone from certain age groups through, what, you get maximum three, four through from each age group, if that. And then you've got to think about, you know, the quality that are coming behind her in terms of the grace clinton kind of era of player so it's really really tough to get into an england setup and she was international minutes she has that link to ireland uh through her grandparents i think and um i think it's a perfect opportunity for her to be able to try and perform on an international stage and push herself to that level. And you never know, Ireland might find themselves in the Euros next summer and she's playing in a major tournament.

So you can completely understand it from her point of view why she made that decision. And I think Ireland will only benefit from that. I think Ireland's problem is that the depth isn't quite there yet. And they've got a really good league in the sense of they're producing young players but they're not

quite at the experience level where you can compete you know internationally because it is a semi-pro league it's not the WSL

so most of their players that play over in the WSL are the ones that get called up so that's where they're at at the moment it's a completely

different situation to the England one Yeah it's going to be interesting isn't it in League B by the way Wales host Croatia in Wrexham, Scotland travel to Serbia, and Northern Ireland entertain Malta at Windsor Park. Just finally, football's going to say goodbye

to former England captain and Manchester City club captain Steph Horton at the end of the season. The 35-year-old's bowing out as a legend of the sport, a true trailblazer. She's done so much to progress the game, played 241 times for City, picked up eight major trophies in her time at the club. And prior to that, she won two league titles

and five cups with Arsenal. She's also a centurion for England, 121 caps to her name, led her side to three major tournament semifinals and also represented Team GB at London 2012 and Tokyo 2020. Her numbers speak for themselves, Susie, don't they? How do you even quantify her impact on the sport and is it going to provide Manchester City with extra ammunition to lift the title for her at the end of the season? Yeah, I mean, you can't really quantify her impact on the sport.

And I don't think we'll be, I think we'll be getting like snippets of the impact that she's had for like some time after she's retired from the game as well, because I know that she's done a lot of stuff off the pitch behind the scenes on sort of player standards and things like that. And like being a big advocate for like a driving of everything behind the scenes via the PFA. And, you know, when she was England captain and stuff, too. So like all of those kind of things that I think there's a lot of stories that we that we don't know that maybe hopefully we'll get a little bit of a glimpse of when she actually you know steps off the pitch just an absolute game changer um in terms of obviously what she did at club level and for country obviously there's a little like sad asterisk that she didn't win a major trophy within england and missed out on the euros but injury

held her back sort of in those sort of last stages of her what what ended up being the end of her England career that that's always going to be a little sad point but brilliant brilliant player brilliant advocate for the game brilliant driver of the game and yeah hugely responsible for helping City push things up a gear when they entered the league. I'll just add maybe just a little very short anecdote in that I think a lot of people will remember, like the more recent fans to the game will remember that penalty kick at the 2019 World Cup where she missed. I think the fact that she stood up and took that on her shoulders was huge, despite the sort of weight of that and the fact that she missed probably has made her, to some fans, kind of dimmed her shadow,

but it shouldn't be. I choose to remember that goal against Brazil for Team GB in 2012, and that's when my journey in women's football started properly. And I can still to this day remember the roar that went up in that stadium with 75,000 people and that was a real catalyst moment and I think we should remember those kind of moments because she changed the game and she changed it for the better

and she's got so much more to do I think off the pitch as well. I 100% agree with that. Right, finally a quick shout out for Salon Andy Hickman, guest panellist, friend of the show, utter legend. Amir says, not a question, but a shout out for second place Dulwich and Salon Andy Hickman. 17 games played, 43

points, three points behind first, one game in hand, facing third place Fulham. 18 games, 42 points on Wednesday, and they're pushed for promotion from the London and South East Regional Women's Football League Premier Division. Best of luck, Salon.

And I did say finally, but this is finally and it's a vital question, a vital one. And I promise we're not making light of what happened on the touchline at Molyneux on Sunday. But I just want an answer

from all three of you very, very quickly. Ricky on X asks, would you rather fight 1,000 duck-sized Emma Hayes or one Godzilla-sized Emma Hayes? Quick, Susie. Ducks. Ducks all the way. I want the tiny Emma Hayes.

A giant one is terrifying. Sophie? Godzilla-sized. I can be squirrely. I can get around, you know, and find a Nicolese heel. And we're talking full-size ducks as well. Not rubber ducks, not bath ducks.

So think about that. Soph? I'm going with the ducks. I'll go with Susie as well. Much better. Brilliant stuff. Quack, quack. Right.

It's been a pleasure. Sophie Lawson, yeah, yeah wonderful debut hope to see you on again soon thank you very much soph always a pleasure multi-talented thanks for having me suzy rack i will see you soon i look forward to seeing you all on friday yeah see you friday at wembley wembley right keep having your say by sending in your questions via x or emailing us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com and as ever a reminder to sign up to our bi-weekly women's football newsletter all you need to do is search moving the goalposts sign up in Tuesday's edition Ella Braidwood investigates why there are so few female coaches in the game. Then on Thursday, Osasu Obayuana looks at what's happening by Woffcon.

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