The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - West Ham win thriller, FA Cup latest and Wales make history – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzy Wrack, Chris Paouros, and Sophie Downey to round up the weekend’s Women’s Super League action

This is The Guardian. free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers, and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Rain battered the country this weekend and it was raining goals as well in the WSL. Just the 28 across the six fixtures. What a treat. We'll analyse all the games, look forward to the FA Cup and back on the internationals. Plus we'll take your questions.

And that's today's guardian women's football weekly what's a panel we have today good morning suzy rack good morning how are you doing i don't know more cheerful today than maybe most mornings. I don't know, maybe it's the new mic arm just making me excited. But, you know, like, I don't know. We've had a lot of mic arm and desk chat this morning, which makes us riveting. So, you know, hold on to your seats, listener. It's going to be in for a ride. I think you're cheerful because we've both

received lovely compliments from the wonderful Chris Poweros how are you doing good morning well your hair does look good I mean I don't know what else to say really so you know it's very kind of you I've literally rolled out of bed as has Susie um so we're doing well here Susie we don't no more paying expensive hairdressers I think just the look, the fresh out of bed look. It's the way to go. It's the way to go. Or the best way to go, I would say, is Sophie Downey's way, which is just to wear a beanie hat all the time. It's covering a multitude of sins in the hair department. Oh, listen, I'm very much looking forward to hearing all your thoughts on what was a brilliant weekend of football.

Goals galore. We're going to start with an enthralling London derby at the foot of the table. Only goal difference separated 11th placed West Ham from 12th placed Crystal Palace ahead of the weekend. And the classic six pointer turned into the game of the weekend in Dagenham, finishing West Ham 5, Crystal Palace 2. A seven-goal thriller, Palace racing into a two-goal lead with Millie Gale and India Page-Riley scoring inside the first 11 minutes. West Ham did respond well. They led 3-2 at the break, thanks to goals from Vivian Assayi, Serena Poubel and Manuela Pavi.

Anouk Denton added a fourth late on before Katrina Gorry added another deep into injury time. I mean, what a treat for you, Susie, despite the disgusting conditions in Dagenham yesterday. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not the best stadium for bad weather. I mean, particularly if you're trying to keep a ball down at all. Like the wind is just like whips through it like no tomorrow. So yeah, not the nicest of places to be, although the press box is nicely tucked to the back of the stand. But I mean, yeah, incredible game on the pitch. It was, I think, the fourth time in five games

that Palace have taken a lead and then given up the three points, which I think is kind of pretty telling about you know kind of the issues they've got in terms of you know sort of lack of consistency inability to sort of last over 90 minutes or even 45 in this case really struggling to sort of see out games and sort of maintain composure when they've got those kind of advantages. But the resilience from West Ham was absolutely incredible. And I think the difference for me was Katrina Gorey in the midfield because she just has a way of grabbing a game by the scruff of its neck and dictating play from the middle that is just so super effective

and that's sort of the player that Palace are missing for me like someone with that level of experience is able just to sort of calm things and control the tempo and and start to bring a team into the game um or or sort of kind of pull them back a little bit when needed they did they just missed that kind of player uh but yeah, I mean, the comeback was like, it was complete inside 45 minutes, pretty much was incredible. And yeah, huge three points for West Ham, given that their six points this season have come from Palace and Leicester, who are sort of at the bottom of the table with them.

So yeah, like massive, massive three points for them going into the winter break. Yeah, five different names on the score sheet as well. And Rhian Skinner was full of praise for her side's creativity. She said, our attacking play was outstanding. All the work we've been doing and putting in, I think that game sums it up. Different goal scorers, the response, the attitude. We needed to make sure we put the game to bed. We've been the culprits at times of sitting off in those moments.

We've been trying to change the mindset of not having any fear and keep going at teams more positively. And that's definitely come out today. I mean, the result sends West Ham up to eighth in the table. So is this a turning point for them, do you feel? How much confidence are they going to get from it? I think it will give them an awful lot. I think, as Rhian said there, part of the big problem this season is not being able to get over the line

in games in which they should have won. So I think that was the Tottenham game. They conceded late. So the fact that they managed to get through and come from behind as well, score so many goals, get those five goal scorers on the score sheet that's only going to breed confidence in them and it's been a long time

coming you feel for West Ham I think at times a lot of people don't think they have a particular style necessarily about them I'm not altogether sure that's true but I think it just needed you know wins like this one wins like their first win of the season a couple of weeks back, where they can get it over the line and they can get it done. Susie mentioned, Chris, that Palace have given up the lead again. Conceded at vital times as well in the game, just before half-time and then late on as well. What do you think they need to do to fix that? Is it a lack of of concentration or, you know, as Susie kind of suggested, they can't hold out for the 90 minutes. So is it a lack of fitness?

I mean, it's probably all of the above, isn't it? I think it's interesting because, you know, if some butts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a happy new year or whatever. I've never heard that in my life. That's brilliant. I'm allergic to nuts, so I'd have had a pretty miserable New Year if I'd have had them. But at 1-2, Blanchard had an open goal. Like, it actually was harder for it to go over

than it would have been to go in. And so it just makes you wonder what would have happened if it was 1-3, you know, and where West Ham's heads would have gone, you know. But as I say, you know, we can hypothesise about that. But I think there's probably a combination of all of it, being the underdogs, having that sort of fitness level, the experience in the league, you know, all sorts of things.

But they, you know, we've said it here before, you've heard it here before, folks, they are the best team that's come up from the championship. And so, you know, and they're competing. And that, you know, I think, you know, credit to West Ham, but actually if they had gone 1-3, I think they probably would have cruised to a win, you know, because I think West Ham's head would have gone down.

So I think it's going to be really interesting down there to sort of, you you know see exactly what happens but I thought the guy you know you said it at the top Faye the there are a lot of goals and there are a lot of goals from the top teams so it really kind of felt quite stark this weekend about the difference between what happens when you're at the top of the WSL where you are where the rest of the league is and so it just made me think about how you at the top of the WSL, where you are, where the rest of the league is. And so it just made me think about how, you know, the development of the league overall.

Maybe that's one for another day. Well, raises a lot of questions defensively, Soph, actually, across the league, doesn't it? I mean, I think actually it shows that the league is advancing tactically and technically across the board. But the fact that there are so many goals that were conceded from passing out from the back just shows I guess the development in that sense I think teams are learning how to to do that more to play possession-based football which is what most of the managers in this league now want we're no longer seeing you know teams bank up and and kind

of try and hit it long and maybe part of it at the weekend was to do with the conditions but I think you're seeing that across the board, is that teams are really trying to implement their style and their way of playing, and whether that's an attacking press or the kind of playing out from the back, you're seeing it across the board, but it is leading to mistakes,

like we've seen across the board at the weekend. And it's not actually just the lower-down teams who will come on to Chelsea later. They conceded from playing from the back too. So I think there is this, like this, I've been really struck this year by that kind of development, I think. Yeah, for a neutral, it makes it great fun though.

Although you do have your head in your hands quite often. Palace though, still rooted to the bottom of the table, Susie. But you and Rhiann Skinner both think that Palace have got enough about them to stay up what why do you think that? Bristol City got six points over the entirety of last season. Palace are already on five and they're only five points off sixth. Like that's how tight it is. There are as many points separating sixth and twelfth as there are separating first and second. One game, three points can completely flip it on its head. West Ham were right down there with them and now they're up in eighth. Like it's really that close.

They're level on points with Leicester. They're only one behind Aston Villa and Everton. They're only three behind West Ham. Like, it is really, really close. And they're scoring a lot of goals. I mean, when you look at their, obviously they're also conceding a lot, but when you look at their goals scored,

you know, they've scored eight. Leicester have scored two. Everton have scored four. Aston Villa and Liverpool in seventh and ninth have only scored nine like we're not talking a big gap here between them and the rest they just like I think a couple of players in January that just bring a bit of WSL experience so maybe it's something they they perhaps like not even WSL like international level experience and I think that's maybe something they've struggled to do coming into the league because you know who wants to go into a team that is potentially going to be a Bristol City and really really struggle but now they're proving that they can really compete there might be more interested in coming into that and it was really

nice moment at the end when uh Rhian Skinner said that she didn't think they're going to go down and then we put that to laura kaminsky and she said you know what's really uh a very respectful comment to make gives me a lot of confidence that kind of stuff it was a really nice moment between the managers that really speaks to the respect that laura kaminsky's earning across the league for what they're doing at Palace and I do think that they've they've got what it takes um and if they get a little bit of money in January to to bring in just even just a couple of players and just give them a little bit of depth and elevate their experience just that little bit um like I say they need a Katrina Gorry type player you know someone of that level to just come into their team and go right come on guys like this is this

is how we do it this is uh what you need to push on just that little bit this is how we do it sorry i can't help it i just can't i can't help it it's like a tick i just i just wanted to note that at the weekend that they were without josie green and brooke aspen who have been key to their defensive efforts um so that will have been a blow. Obviously, Brooke did her ACL with the under-23s last week, so massively gutted for her and wishing her the best of recovery. But I think that will have sort of disjointed them as well defensively at the weekend. Yeah, most definitely.

Two more teams looking for a decent run of form went head-to-head at Brisbane Road. Tottenham secured a third WSL victory of the season with a 2-1 win over Everton. Two goals from Captain Bethany England sealing the points, despite Sarah Holmgaard briefly equalising for the visitors. Really important win for your team, Chris. What did you make of the performance? Well, I mean, it's been a choppy few weeks to say the least. And we've only beaten Everton once in 10 WSL games so they're a little bit of a bogey team and you know before they scored we'd had like 11 shots on goal you know like two-thirds of the possession but it was I mean it was quite a

finish from from Holmgard we should have gone in three nil up a half time rather than one one but there you go Courtney Brosnan had an absolute blinder. You know, like she had a really good game. But we had 26 shots on goal. The team looked like they were enjoying it. Our captain and leader, the venerated Bethany England, always in the right place at the right time. You know, and she missed a couple as well.

You know, like I feel for her because you can see how frustrated she is because stuff that would have just gone in in the past just wasn't going in at the beginning of the game. It was a really nice move from the corner to score the first goal. You could see it was something they'd practiced. Claire Hunt got up really well at the back post. Great save again from Courtney Brosnan. But again, you know, Beth popped up in the right place. We looked much better balanced when Maito Orof came on.

And I think it's, you know, we have been struggling, but I think once towards the end of the game, you sort of saw, well, in the middle of the game, actually, because Hayley Rasso got subbed. But with Hayley Rasso and Maito Orof on, you could sort of see what Robert's plan was that had gone slightly awry because they'd both been injured. And I think, you know, you've got much better balance with Orochi,

like a metronome. Evelina Sumanen, I was saying to somebody yesterday, looks like our player of the season so far. You know, you're talking just then, Susie Abak, Katrina Gorey, just kind of dictating tempo, winning the ball, moving it on, but also like popping up, you know, and, you know, sort of building attacks as well.

I think she's done that for us and great with set pieces too. Drew Spencer at 10, really like her there because she's got really quick feet. She can see a pass. And I think once her off is on, you can do that. I'm so overall really pleased and I just think we needed a win and we needed a win to come from a game like against Everton because, you know, we look like we're not going to be sort of pulling up many trees when we're playing, you know, the top three or four teams. But otherwise, we have to be sort of competing.

I thought Everton feel a bit stuck and it sort of showed in their performance. And so just kind of wondering what's sort of next for them, really. I've got a little bit of a soft spot for Everton because my partner's's an Evertonian although she's a Spurs women's fan she always says that um because what did she do on Sunday that's hard supported Spurs because she's a Spurs women's fan um but I does you know it does make me watch out for them a little bit so I think we did well I think the FA Cup draw which I'm sure we'll come on to, was interesting. Because obviously, having just played them, we drew them again in the FA Cup. It's always the way, isn't it?

At least we know we can beat them. Yes, no longer the bogey team. And Bethany England really did lead by example, didn't she? And playing in more of a natural centre-forward role. And we've spoken on this pod before, Soph, haven't we? How she and Martha Thomas can fit into the same line-up. It's been a bit of a conundrum for Robert Villahan, but he managed to do it. Do you think the system is the kind of long-term solution for them?

I think there was a lot more balance about the team. And I think I've been pretty much banging on about it all season, how I thought Robert needed to really strip it back to basics. I think he tried too many different things a little bit in the games against Manchester City and Arsenal. In the games that you're probably not meant to experiment in, really, you want to keep things tight. So I think the fact that he did strip it back to basics a bit,

I know Susie was sat next to me at the North London Derby and I was going on about how I didn't really understand what Bethany England was doing and why why she was taking corners and stuff like that so I think the fact that you're using her he's using her centrally now is really good she's one of the most instinctive strikers in the league and she just needs a bit of confidence and minutes in those situations Chris talked about the ones that she missed, but I think that's purely because she's been moving around a bit and trying to do her job in the team in different places.

So I think a few games at centre-forward is going to do her the world of good and you'll start seeing the Bethany England of usual before. Again, I mean, in terms of Martha Thomas, I think it's a really interesting one. I think I do agree that when Orozco came on that added more balance as well but you have to fit her in the team at some point she plays just off Bethany I think at times so it's going to see interesting to see how that develops she had a lovely chance as well Martha Thomas like and she hit it so well and I don't know how Courtney Brosnan got to it and are we just willing it to go in because

I genuinely think as well if she starts scoring she's going to start scoring and I just you know like just want it because she works so hard just want that that ball to go in but yeah but I mean Bethany England and you know what a leader as well you just watch you know like she really feels a sense of responsibility for that team I just think I just think she's a tremendous footballer and person and leader. So yeah, big up Bethany England. Big game for Tottenham against Brighton next weekend. Got a bit of breathing space now though. Five points clear of the bottom of the table.

Not so for Everton though, Susie. I mean, Chris mentioned Courtney Brosnan. She was fantastic, wasn't she? Six saves. They threatened on the counter-attack as well. So there are kind of positives that they can take into their game. Luckily for them, against Manchester City. Yeah, I don't think anyone could take any positives from anything going into a game against Man City based on the form that they're in.

It wasn't the worst performance we've seen from them. Like you say, Courtney Brosnan was excellent. I know Sorensen was pretty aggrieved by the penalty decision as well afterwards i'd say he's got a point but you've seen it given either way right like you know it it's a shirt in the box right it's it's don't do it um so it's not the worst decision in the world it's pretty inconsistent in the way those are given so i don't think they can be too upset about it um but yeah I mean I think they're in real trouble the fact that they've only scored uh four goals across nine games is really concerning as we were saying looking at Palace potentially uh having enough about them to stay up then you've got to be looking at Everton

and Leicester as like the two that are really really in trouble at the moment you'd think that you know Everton have enough about them to turn things around they need investment quite badly um I think that's really important the ownership situation at the club has been so messy that it's been really really hard for them to get any kind of like security or sort of long-term planning in so hopefully in the winter break they can bring in a couple of players that just give them a bit of depth. You know, they're constantly struggling with injuries because their squad is so overstretched.

So, I mean, they're in trouble. But like we said with Palace who are bottom, no one is out of it at the moment, which is a good thing for them. Tactics by Susie Rack. Just don't do it. Basic. Simple, stupid football. Just don't do it. Just don't do it. Basic. Simple, stupid football.

Just don't do it. Just don't do it. It feels simple, stupid at the minute for Chelsea, for sure. Another sack full of goals. They hosted Brighton. Sonia Bonpastor claiming her ninth WSL victory in a row as Chelsea boss. It finished Chelsea 4, Brighton 2, although it wasn't really that simple stupid, actually, when you think about the goals they conceded. Shuka Nushkan and Aggie Beaver Jones put the hosts ahead before former Blue. Jelena Kankovic brought the Seagulls back into the game.

Johanna Ritting-Kannerid extended Chelsea's lead before Kiko Seiki narrowed the scoreline again. Nushkan's injury time finish made sure that Chelsea took home all three points. Another entertaining encounter. Opportunities at both ends, Soph. But another win for Chelsea, even if they weren't kind of at their full best. What's setting them apart at the moment? Mentality, I think.

Having been there, done that and being over the line many many times before um you can tell that they've been champions five times in a row it's I think that is what's setting like they don't get me wrong they have an incredibly quality bunch of players who are absolutely world-class but in games like this where you are challenged like they were by Brighton it's that mentality that gets them over the line mean, Brighton could have been 2-0 up. You know, Nikita Paris had a chance that was really brilliantly saved by Hannah Hampton. I think Kiko Seike missed a sitter as well.

So it could have been very different before Chelsea started scoring. But Chelsea just have that inevitability about them at the moment that they know how to get a job done and get over the line. And while they were not great out of possession and they looked a bit weird in their shape I think it's just that

relentlessness at the moment yeah it feels like it doesn't it um key players returning from injury as well uh is quite big Niamh Charles got her first 45 minutes after dislocating her shoulder Katerina Makari also back to full fitness as well. We're expecting Lauren James to return in the new year. Sam Kerr is still going to be another couple of months but I mean that's pretty scary for the other teams in the league, Chris.

Yeah, I mean, you know, just as you were saying that, I'd almost forgotten about some of those players and you know, think about what Soph's just said. I mean, they definitely know how to win and imagine you know what's going to happen once they're all back but you know we're back to back to the ifs and buts right um seika three two could have changed could have changed everything because again she had a really good opportunity and imagine if they had drawn and they and chelsea weren't on this massive winning streak, but they are.

And so it's really hard to say who's going to catch them. I mean, you would always argue that teams often have a bad spell during the season. I'm just not sure when it's going to come. And I think there's something about it being a smaller league that it just means that you can manage it in the right way to for that not to be the case but I guess we'll see I just can't I can't I can't see them you know having too much of a trip up and I am saying that

specifically so they do trip up obviously well yes of course you know you know the way this pod works look at poor Republic of Ireland I don't think that Emma Duffy is ever going to talk to us again obviously. Well, yes, of course, you know, you know, the way this pod works. Look at poor Republic of Ireland. I don't think that Emma Duffy is ever going to talk to us again. Well, there you go. So I mean, if I've managed to jinx it, sorry, Sonia, I'm sure we could be friends in another life. Susie, how disappointed are Brighton going to be that they couldn't be more clinical in key moments? Yeah, I mean, obviously the Kikoseke chance like late on when she's played through

was a big one and could have changed the direction of the game. Like, obviously then Chelsea went and scored the goal that just takes it beyond them like literally seconds later. So that's a huge blow but I would say that like that's not going to be the focus of their frustration the focus of their frustration is going to be the goals they conceded um and how poorly they were conceded

um and how yeah playing out from the back against teams in and around where they are like Soph was saying earlier is fine but when you're playing a team like chelsea uh you can't make mistakes that you do or hesitate at all like you've got to sometimes just put your foot through the ball and get it out of the way i think they'll spend a lot more time analyzing that than they will maybe the missed chances up front because the fact that they're creating those chances uh you know the fact that agamemnon like comes on and and is able to influence the game in that way and create that chance for Seque. They're all positives, right? That she didn't put it away.

She's put a fair few away this season. So I don't think they'll be too worried about that. The bigger issues for me are at the back for them against top teams. And as a Chelsea fan, Soph, what did you make of both the defensive performances? Susie's mentioned Brighton there but I know you were pretty unhappy with their Chelsea's as well. I mean yeah there were chances the goals at both ends of the pitch

could have been avoided by just maybe sometimes learning how to adapt to situations and sometimes yes I know that your manager is telling you to build out from the back all the time, but you just need to relieve that pressure. And as Susie said, you know, boot it out sometimes. If in doubt, put it out. But yes, I think it's just a process that we're going through in the league.

And I will hasten to add that it's not just women's football. I mean, I was watching Chelsea Tottenham at the weekend in the men's game and there were errors from the back too. So all teams across the world, I think, are doing it. It's not just a women's football thing. I think it's just a part of where football is at at the moment that we're trying to all play this possession-based football. So it's something to work on, but it's just picking on moments

when to work on it, I think, and becoming more sensible in those moments. We're in an evolution for sure at the moment. But yeah, I mean, as I mentioned earlier, it makes it fun for a neutral, but I have my heart in my mouth half the time. It's quite stressful if it's your team. Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we're going to look at the rest of the weekend's action. We'll catch up on the latest Adobe Women's FA Cup action as well

and round up an exciting end to the international break. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters.

Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Give the perfect gift that keeps on giving, an AuraFrame. It's one that friends and family are sure to love and has been named the best digital photo frame by Wirecutter. AuraFrames.com. That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com, promo code ACAST. Conditions apply.

Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. A comfortable win for Manchester United as they hosted injury hit Liverpool. It finished Manchester United 4-0 Liverpool, thanks to goals from Elizabeth Turland, Leah Galton, Dominique Janssen and Melvin Mallard. What did you make of their performance, Susie? Oh, like absolutely dominant. You know, you could see that they've missed Turland.

Like her impact was obviously pretty comprehensive and instant um like she gives them a focal point that is really really reliable and yeah i mean put it this way a lot is made of man united's lack of support from their ownership and i think more should be made of liverpool's given you know the state of where they are footballing wise you know Man United are using the excuse of needing to focus on the men's and stuff and having new ownership in what's Liverpool's excuse and I just think Matt Beard's comments at the end about you know having one of the smallest budgets in the league is like pretty damning and shows that they've not changed much since they sort of came up after being relegated, essentially due to being significantly underfunded. So whilst Man United were dominant,

I just really feel for Liverpool in this situation. But yeah, I mean, absolutely fluid performance. I think Man United needed a big performance. They needed a clean sheet. They needed not a draw, basically draw basically yeah we'll talk about liverpool in a second but a couple of points on on manchester united i mean they've been inconsistent this season chris but this actually moves them up to force level on points with arsenal and mark skinner said i thought we were good when we don't meet our high standards we

face criticism but when we do play well and we're dominant, we deserve the accolades and the credit. And he's got a fair point, hasn't he? Because it does feel as if most of the time, the narrative outside levels criticism at Manchester United, even when they win. I mean, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for him he can be manages to complain whichever way around it is but isn't that his point though isn't that his point like because that's how it feels from the outside I know but you know like maybe if you know I don't know Mark Skinner but if he was a bit more likable then maybe we it would be nicer and I just think there's there's something there's just something about that it's like like, you've just won 4-0. Why not just praise your players

rather than saying, oh, poor us? It's like, I'm not interested in the poor us. You know, like Susie just said, they were really dominant. You've got Leah Gorton doing what she does best. It was really direct. She was great. You know, Grace Clinton,

first name on the plane to Switzerland, as far as I'm concerned. I think she gives great you know grace clinton first name on the plane to switzerland as far as i'm concerned i think she gives you know the manchester united team and in the england team something very different in terms of how she plays and operates why not come out and say that praise your players you know talk about you know what's exciting about what you're doing rather than saying oh well you know we did well today but no one's saying nice things about i said well maybe you should say nice things and then that will follow sorry the thing for me is it very much feels like the royal we because uh like no no one is really criticizing man united players i've not seen that but they're criticizing mark skinner and

the way he sets up his team and his lack of rotation and their inability to like put games to bed and you know the structure of the team they're not criticizing the players they're criticizing him so when he says when we don't meet our high standards we face criticism but when we do play and we're and we're dominate we deserve the accolades and credit he's saying i right like he's saying spot on i deserve the accolades and credit he's saying I right like he's saying spot on I deserve the accolades and credit and that is what is frustrating I think for anyone like reading those comments is like just just be quiet for a bit and just focus on the job on the pitch but but to defend him a little bit do you feel as if actually he is frustrated with the fact that he's not getting any credit because he's having to manage a team that isn't really getting any support from the larger hierarchy at Manchester United.

Because, you know, the build up to the game was dominated by more comments from Sir Jim Radcliffe and the departure of the Manchester United sporting director Dan Ashworth. This is what Sir Jim had to say in the interview with United We Stand, the fanzine. There's only so much you can do and our focus has been on the men's team. This is when he's talking about the women's team. Our focus has been on the men's team. If not, you get spread too thinly. We need to sort out the main issue, the men's team. The women's team is an opportunity. Women's football is growing really quickly in popularity and size we need to participate in that the girls wear a Manchester United badge on their shirt and they're representing the club I mean look if you dissect that Soph

I mean he's not entirely wrong but the message of it like I, I just cannot. It's awful. It's a joke. And it happens again and again and again, right? This man can't go into an interview and not mention the women's team in this way. Always trying to put it down, always trying to say that it's secondary to the men's team, you know, that they can't really concentrate on two things at once. The point of having a massive organisation is that you have teams to do it. Get people in to organise the women's team.

You can do two things at once. But yes, it's really infuriating, I think. And I think it sends a real message, not just to the players, but to the fans as well. He really, really views the women's side as secondary and it can't kind of help on the pitch stuff and that's not I don't think that's excusing Mark Skinner and the performances sometimes and the lack of rotation and the lack of progress that we've seen maybe in the last 18 months in the pitch but I think it does add to the whole context around the club that isn't a good feeling and we're hitting a really tricky stage for Manchester United right Mark Skinner's contract is up at the end of the season I think a few of the players Grace Clinton's

contract I think is up at the end of the season it's going to be a summer of change you know or it could be a summer of change there is a lot of work that needs to be done to stabilise this football club if they want to really drive on and make themselves into like championship winning side and it's not currently happening and I think it is a massive blow that Dan Ashworth is no longer there. That was a really expensive, I don't know whether you call it a mistake or whatever has happened because it's been five months since he came through the door to now that he's now leaving. But Dan Ashworth has a history of supporting women's football across the board.

He did it at the FA, he did it at Brighton, he did it at Newcastle. And when he came into Manchester United you felt that maybe he was the anchor that Manchester United desperately needed within that setup to have someone really vouching for the women's team and now he's no longer there. Completely agree with all of that the one thing I would say on you know Skinner and the team is that it is very much his team and he has been able to build in his image and that I think the biggest reflection of his tenure as a manager is the comments of departing players who pretty much you know universally kind of do not speak up in favor

of him in fact like they often you know ask are what managers have been influential on your career and we'll talk about previous managers like omitting him from the list and saying it was a really difficult time there and like you know really frustrating not to get minutes and things like that and I think there's um you know there's there's a balance there to be struck right between the lack of support from the club which has still been he still had a level of support it's not quite Arsenal Chelsea City level of backing but I would say he's been backed to the you know the next greatest extent minimal backing in terms of like you know kind of overall big picture but he has been given money he has been given players and he's not using them effectively and I think that is where the frustration from players is

coming from and that's where the frustration from fans is coming from and I think they're they're two sort of obviously they're interlinked to a certain extent but they are separate as well and he's had enough time to be and has the quality in the squad to do something quite special with that group but I think the frustration comes from not seeing that progress on the pitch when you can see that that quality is there. Very quickly on Jim Ratcliffe I just think from a narrative perspective you said it in their face like why does he keep saying it just be quiet just stop talking just be quiet because you know we're constantly hearing from him we're deprioritizing it it's not what we want to be focusing on etc and it's like we know that there's a you know

we're in a moment now but you know with the you know the advent of the WPLL really trying to take the professional women's game into a different stratosphere you know like with a brand like Manchester United I'm sorry to the Manchester United fans for calling it a brand but it is you know the badge he talked about the badge and that's what he meant because despite what you've just said Susie about you know what previous players say about him and all the rest of it, that badge still has a real draw. So, you know, that badge has got a draw, even when, and you're hearing all of that constantly. And what it makes me worry is, is like, do other owners then say, oh, well, okay, well, if he can do it, so can I. You know, I was just worrying about Everton.

You know, if you think about Everton, the men's team's looking precarious as well what's going to happen to the women's team if both teams go down and you've got you've got constant narrative from you know like major owners like Jim Ratcliffe very rich very very rich men as well right so you know and some investment into the women's team wouldn't kind of you know it, it's a drop in the ocean, frankly. And it's that deprioritisation that says so much about not just for women's football, but where your priorities are on kind of what happens to women's sport more generally in one of the biggest sports brands in the world. So I think you should either be positive, say important things or be quiet. Is he stupid? That's my question. Is he stupid? Because he's literally undermining his brand, right?

Like he is literally undermining the one thing they have going for them, which is the brand of Man United. That's what's going to attract players, as you say, at the moment. It's one of the few things that's going to attract players. And you're basically saying that's the only thing they've got going for them is the fact that they put on the badge on the shirt I just like why would you undermine yourself to investors to sponsors to players like it doesn't make business sense at all and like someone who's supposed to be a true businessman like does not bode well for the entirety of Man United does it

either but that's predicated on the fact the fact that there is any care or attention paid to the women's team. So if you think about that price increase they've just made on the tickets, the men's tickets at Old Trafford, you know, what you might be doing when you're talking to a United We Stand fanzine is saying, you might think that I'm not, you know, I'm really thinking about the men's team. Don't worry about this other thing. It's just a distraction. And it's just a way of like putting the emphasis away from whatever the other sort of quite out there decisions you're making around the real thing of your brand, which is the, you know, in his mind, the men's team.

And you could distract by talking about, so maybe it's a tactic talking about the women's team all the time because then you could just say, well, look over there rather than the other stuff that's going going on i think that gives him more credit because i reckon he's just asked the question about the women's team and then balls it up is my also what are their pr department doing because i mean well maybe they're tearing their hair out too or their comms department because surely someone high up has to be telling him stop saying these things like it like it goes into the news cycle every single time he says it.

It's not a good look. And maybe he just completely ignores him. Maybe he's kind of that kind of powerful kind of figure who just will do whatever he wants and say whatever he wants. But you just got to imagine that the comms team has to step up here. They have a whole department for this particular reason, is to kind of control the messaging out of the club

and they're just currently not doing it. Yeah. I think everything has been said there and I'm actually fascinated to hear from Manchester United fans

and we'll discuss this again for sure. Email us. Email us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com. And we haven't even had a chance to speak about Liverpool yet, but I'm sure Matt Beard would be delighted by that,

bearing in mind they lost 4-0. We'll focus more on Liverpool next week. A couple more games to go through. Arsenal continued their unbeaten run. Another comfortable victory. In fact, 4-0 victories were quite fashionable this weekend, it felt. Arsenal were at the Emirates against Aston Villa and beat them by four goals to nil.

A brace from Alessia Russo, goals from Beth Mead as well, and Stina Black's Stenius. And it was confirmed before the game that Rene Slaggers is going to remain in charge until the winter break. I mean, that's only like a week. So thank you for that.

Arsenal unbeaten in her eight game tenure, 24 goals they've scored. They've registered six clean sheets as well. Was this performance a continued reflection of this good form, Chris? Yes. Yes. I mean, I think that's enough analysis. I think yes, frankly. And the one thing that sort of sprung to mind when i was thinking about this game was that i think we're we're uh in the middle of a russon essence oh i like it does that work oh i needed that for my intro chris can you can you be my sparkle when

i've overslept next time please i would go renaissance renaissance yeah although you don't know what you have that i played with that but I think you've got to say Russo, otherwise it's not clear what you're talking about. And I just think it's what we expected her to do when she got to Arsenal and now it's happening. I think she just looked confident right at the end of the game to be scoring the goal she scored. I just think it was kind of a job well done

and it's exactly what you expect Arsenal to do, except they hadn't been. But, you know, their form has picked up, let's say, against René Slager. So we'll be interested

to see what they do because she seems, even though she said she didn't want the job, you know, watch her in an interview. She looks like, she looks really happy.

She's kind of confident in what she's doing. She talks, you know, she talks really well about the team. They're really up for it. I's kind of confident in what she's doing. She talks, you know, she talks really well about the team. They're really up for it. I'm interested to see what they do. Yeah.

Well, it will be interesting. And actually we've mentioned this before, but Jim sent us a message on women's football weekly at the guardian.com. Nick Cushing being booted out the door marked do one by MLS is New York city should make Arsenal's new manager search a wee bit easier. I don't know whether that's necessarily the case. We've discussed it, Susie.

What is the latest? Well, the latest is that Rene is staying until the new year, at least. I mean, it's vague. We don't know where they're up to in their search. I personally would really... I know they've given her a little bit more time in that she's stretching to the end of the first half of the season is that the way you put it I would really really like to see her like keep the job until sort of like mid-February I'd love

to see her in that run of fixtures at the end of January where they've got Chelsea away City away and then Spurs at home for me that would be like a really concrete test of whether she deserves a job long term. I think that, like, obviously we're going to see them against Bayern Munich in like eight days' time or whenever it is. But I would like to see her tested in those fixtures that really matter. Obviously, they're already qualified from the Champions League group stage. So, yeah, like, for me me if I was Arsenal I would be

giving her that period of time like whoever they've got in the in the background can wait for the time being she's doing such a good job I think I think she deserves a test if they lost all those three games for example or two of those three games you know the Chelsea and the City one I think we'd be having a totally different conversation. You know, great interim, but they need someone, a step up. If she wins those three games or even two of them, then I think you're then saying, well, hang on a minute. Like, do we want to let this diamond go? So like for me, we need to see her test against like really,

really top sides because she's had quite a nice, gentle like start to life as the interim head coach. Yeah. So like, who knows what's going to happen? I would like that to happen. So, Fastenville really struggled to compete, didn't register a shot on target either. What is going... I mean, it's a big question, what's going on wrong for them?

But let's just focus on this game for now. What went wrong in this game for them? I think it was a bit of being just completely outplayed them but let's just focus on this game for now what what went wrong in this game for them? I think it was a bit of being just completely outplayed by a very oh like confident Arsenal team who are really firing and you can tell with the Arsenal players you know they're loving life at the moment and they're full of confidence whether it's Russo or Beth Mead but then I think it was also I spoke to Robert De Pauw after the game and he was saying that you know like there were defensive moments in the box where they conceded, where they don't react quicker,

where they need to learn to be more experienced in those situations. But I think it's just a little bit concerning when it's happening in both boxes as well. They weren't creating and then they're not defending the moments well enough. And I think, I mean, for this one, they always struggle against Arsenal generally. So they wouldn't have expected maybe to go to the Emirates necessarily and come away with much. But I think it was the manner of the performance and the lack of any teeth either end of the pitch that would be a worry.

They have a big game next. They play, I think, West Ham on Sunday. That's going to be, as we said before, a six-pointer in terms of that bottom half of the table. So they really need to show something there i think um and to be able to attack better they just couldn't formulate anything on sunday at all no a bit toothless in attack um manchester city were not another four nil scoreline they got back to winning ways against leicester uh with a four nil win two

goals from bunny shaw uh jess park and and Mary Fowler also on the score sheet. And, you know, they're still trying to keep in touch with Chelsea at the top of the table, which was, you know, a really important result for them, Chris, after the international break. And, of course, that defeat to Chelsea last time out. Yeah, and, you know, it felt like business as usual. Like two towering headers from Bunny Shaw.

I think seven goals in four games from her. And what a player. I mean, you know, just keep her, keep her fit. And I think they're going to be, they're going to be there and thereabouts. 12 out of 13 wins at home, you know, very, very strong. And what a finish from Mary Fowler. That was like the perfect volley. If you've ever been coached any football, I mean, it's been a very long time for me. That is like the perfect shape for a volley. It was and so you know 4-0 you know the uh fashionable scoreline of the weekend they just did what they had to but you know in a very very sort of tidy way the possession was unbelievable looking at it here I think they had more than 70% possession

they really dominated the game and you said it, it's like Leicester are kind of, you know, I think that, you know, they're going to struggle. And, you know, they might be the reason why Palace managed to stay up, I think. They were on trend, weren't they, City? Exactly. And Bunny Shaw back in the goal-scoring groove as well. Her ninth of the season. This is what Gareth Taylor had to say about his striker.

Bunny does what she does. She's the complete striker, really. Gives us so much without goals. And then her goals are the cherry on a cake. And she was just really impressive again, wasn't she? But Leicester's struggles continue, Susie. Omendi Mikel continues to go herself without a recognised centre forward. They need a bunny Shaw. Are they any closer to finding a solution, do you think? I hope so. I mean, I hope they're doing that work in the January transfer window. I was trying to say winter transfer window,

but that doesn't ring right in the January transfer window to plug that massive gap. I mean, it's really really really staggering just how sort of far off the pace they are I mean they've got two goals scored this season conceded 12 so like they're in terms of like defensive record they've got the best defensive record of any team outside the top five but then you know the worst scoring record so like the the problem is pretty obvious so you'd like to think they're doing the work in january you hope she's being backed to be able to turn things around and you know when the problem is that like blunt like you'd like to think that

they are doing some work to bring in one if not two players in january they're going to make the difference in that area alone plus probably a little bit beyond that because they are doing some work to bring in one, if not two players in January, that are going to make the difference in that area alone. Plus probably a little bit beyond that because they are, they are struggling. And I just really feel like they need some confidence and a striker gives you that like someone with a presence who, you know, you kind of can feel confidence in,

breathes confidence through the team. Got a question for you, Susie. Pretty much at the end of every, every time we've spoken, Susie said in the January transfer window, where are all these players coming from? Who are all these mythical players? some of the top four academies and things like that where you know we've seen so many teams sort of do well from those areas Everton previously when they got Aggie Beaver Jones and and players like that in you know obviously Crystal Palace getting Brooke Aspin in although obviously she's injured now like there's there's options there for players at that level of the game that could

be really good but then also you know you've got to look abroad as well you know the nwsl season is over like you know some might even want a short-term contract to the summer just to to keep their finger on in on the pulse of the game i don't know whatever whatever analogy you want to chuck in there that was appalling um but like yeah there there are players out there they've just got to be smart and find them you know we seen managers like Matt Beard be so, so shrewd at international recruitment, pulling rabbits out of hats that we didn't know existed. So like, it's not an impossible task. But yeah, the pool is small. For top level talent, the pool is small.

But Leicester don't even need top level talent. They need any talent. I spoke to Amandine on Friday before the game and I do feel kind of sorry for her because she said this is the first time in her career where she's had so many injuries in the same position. You know, normally you get a defender in midfield and then a striker injured.

Literally all of her number nine options are kind of evaporated into smoke in this first half of the season. And for a manager who prides herself on attacking football attacking brand of football she said she's never gone through half a season of where her teams have only scored two goals so it's a really big learning process for her she's trying everything she was joking that you know that Lisa Kopp really wanted to go and play in the forward position obviously a goalkeeper um so she's literally was like basically anyone can have a go up there um she's trying at the moment it's been takarada for

the last two games she's normally a you know a central midfielder so it's it's very much just trying to see it through till christmas i think she did say the club had funds available for her to spend um so that is positive i guess guess it's just about finding the right option or whether you look at the loan system because, you know, you do have strikers there, they're just not fit. So the long-term prospects, your hope is that when, you know,

they come back to full fitness, they have the options there. Maybe you look at someone like, I don't know, an Ebony Salmon or someone who's not getting a lot of minutes at club at the moment to fill that gap. They need Rantala back so badly, but who knows when she's going to be back? Yeah, January is going to be fascinating for sure.

Right, let's focus on the FA Cup. The third round of the Adobe Women's FA Cup took place on Sunday. 20 sides progressed. Plenty of extra time drama as well that saw Cheltenham beat Norwich and Exeter City beat Worthing. Pick of the bunch though was London Bees and QPR which finished 2-2 after normal time only for the Bees to go on and win 6-3. Elsewhere

there was safety for most of the championship sides. Durham edged out Birmingham while Newcastle saw off neighbours Middlesbrough. Bristol City crews passed Southampton. The fourth round draw was made on Monday night as the WSL teams enter the fray. The fixtures are as follows. London Bees will play Rugby Borough.

Leicester face Stoke. West Ham, Liverpool in an all-WSL clash. Arsenal, Bristol City. Chelsea versus Charlton. Exeter City versus Sunderland. Cheltenham against Wolves Brighton, Durham Newcastle United will face either Nottingham Forest or Burnley

that'll be a fascinating one Kidderminster or Blackburn will face Portsmouth Manchester City will face either the Ipswich or AFC Bournemouth Aston Villa will play either Oxford United or Bristol Rovers then it's Everton, Tottenham another all WSL clash. Manchester United, West Brom. Crystal Palace against Sheffield United.

And Fulham against London City Lionesses. Any of those stand out for you, Chris? You mentioned earlier on playing Everton yet again. But what else tickles you? I think the ones, I was at the draw last night and I think the ones that we kind of enjoyed the most were the thought of Exeter City against Sunderland, you know, from one edge of the country to the other

and then Brighton-Durham for the same reason. I mean, just because from an FA Cup perspective, you're thinking like, what are these teams going to do? Because you can sort of see, I could see the Spurs players thinking, oh, we've got another long trip. But, you know, they've got all the infrastructure and the way, you know, and an understanding of how those trips work

and, you know, like a really nice coach and definitely an overnight stay. And it just makes you wonder. It's like, I mean, I don't know very much about Sunderland or Durham, but I imagine that that trip is going to be epic, whichever way you cut it. and that's the sort of thing you want from the FA Cup a kind of like mad stories of traveling whether you're the team or

the fans you know and I think Man United West Brom is a good one because you know just thinking about it from the point of view of like West Brom have got like a brilliant um LGBTQ plus fan group the proud baggies and they I know support the West Brom women's team so LGBTQ plus fan group, the Proud Baggies, and they, I know, support the West Brom women's team. So they'll be there in full force supporting their team against the holders. So I just think there's some exciting things there. West Ham, Liverpool's an interesting one, given everything we've spoken about

in terms of both teams today. I mean, I'm not sure what an upset would be. I guess it would be West Ham beating Liverpool given just from a, you know, the team's perspective. But that could go either way. So yeah,

it was an interesting draw. Chelsea Charlton as well. Always good. I've got a little soft spot for Charlton just because Karen Mills is there. Yeah, because Karen's there as well, you know,

and I think that'll be good for Charlton to go to Kings Meadow if that's where they play it. So yeah, I think it was a fun draw. It was fun being at it live. I've never been to an FA Cup draw before. It really was a velvet bag and everything. I've done a few FA Cup draws myself.

Oh, of course you have. And do you know what? The most satisfying feeling is holding the velvet bag and shaking the balls to make that wonderful noise. Which in terms of audio i can see producer silas already going oh that would be wonderful um it is a it's a real privilege to be able to do right let's have a look at the international break oh my goodness i feel so so guilty our terrible terrible pod predictions because obviously it's all our fault but last week's international break concluded and seven final spots for next year's euro 2025 tournament

were confirmed and Wales made history on Tuesday seeing off the Republic of Ireland to reach their first ever major tournament uh jubilant scenes at the Aviva Stadium producer Soph was there with her wife who is Irish very upsetting uh finished 2-1 on the night 3-2 on aggregate rianne wilkinson's side holding off a resurgent island in the final 10 minutes and and look it was it whichever way it went it was gonna you know be be history making suzy but what a special night for wales and of course Jess Fishlock. Yeah I'd like to apologise for the entire Republic of Ireland for our terrible podcast predictions that were likely the difference in this fixture no but uh seriousness. Wow I mean that's some ego that

we're giving ourselves there isn't it that it's all down to us. I mean our predictions are that bad I think we have the power no it was it's a beautiful moment fishlock uh obviously like she made her debut at 16 or something so it's what like 20 plus years in the making this win so uh like it's qualified for a tournament she's proudest moment of career it was obviously the last chance really you know like say that, she'd still be so influential for the team before she could go on for another however many years, two or three years, to get to the World Cup if she wanted to. But whether she'd be able to be quite as influential would be another thing.

But yeah, just huge that we're finally going to see a player of that quality on the big stage. Although I hesitate to big that out too much, because as we saw when Scotland qualified, it wasn't particularly pretty for Kim Little on the biggest stage for the first time in 2019. So it's tough. It's a big learning curve. And the hope is that it's a platform that any nation can step on from.

But again, asland have shown and as the republic of ireland have now shown qualifying for your first major tournament doesn't mean that necessarily that the next one comes very very soon after so it's great it's going to be huge for them um like you really hope it can be a galvanizing thing but uh it's going to be tough too. Really, really tough. But I'm sure they'd rather be there than not. Yeah, most definitely. By the way, the draw for the tournament is going to take place on the 16th of December. So we'll bring you details of that on next week's pod.

Scotland won't be in it though. Heartbreak for them. They failed to reach their third major tournament in a row after a 2-0 loss away to Finland. Norway saw off Northern Ireland, while Portugal, Sweden and Belgium also booked their places. History too for Poland, who came through against Austria. They also reached a European Championship for the first time. Finally, some really good news coming out of Spain this week.

Goalkeeper Ellie Roebuck back in action after suffering a stroke over a year ago. She made her Barcelona debut on Saturday in their 4-1 win over Real Betis. This is what she posted on Instagram 303 days later. The goal was always to play

the game I love again and she absolutely did. Congratulations Ellie. It's so good to see you back on the on the pitch everybody on the pod giving you a virtual round of applause uh right now it really is great to see you back out there uh right Chris it's been great to have you back on the pod as it always is lovely to see you lovely to see you all Soph take care great to be back Susie just step out of that salon flick that hair off you go or have a shower and get it actually looking a little bit more decent Great to be back. Susie, just step out of that salon, flick that hair, off you go. Or have a shower and get it actually looking a little bit more decent.

I just need to brush mine. That'd be really helpful. Right, keep having your say by sending in your questions via X or by the way, we are also on Blue Sky now if you've migrated over there yet. I'm not sure whether it's fully taken off, but we've started pumping out for questions there.

So join us or you can email us at womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com and as ever, a reminder to sign up for our weekly women's football newsletter.

All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts Sign Up. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is Salamat.

This is The Guardian. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen.