The Guardian's Women's Football Weekly - WSL season review: Chelsea make it four in a row – Women’s Football Weekly

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

Faye Carruthers is joined by Suzanne Wrack, Robyn Cowen, chair of Chelsea Pride Tracy Brown, and the FA’s Kelly Simmons to wrap up on the final day of the Women’s Super League, and look back on a cracking season.

This is The Guardian. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers, and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Well, the final day of the WSL season went as we expected. Chelsea are champions for the fourth consecutive season and after eight years, Reading's tenure came to an end. Leicester did their job beating Brighton

and Arsenal secured Champions League football despite defeat to Villa. We'll wrap up the final day of the Women's Super League, look back on a cracking season, look ahead to the future, take your questions, and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Susie Rack, I'm just going to pass you an award for your brilliance this season. It's a little bit heavy, actually, maybe you shouldn't take it you know a bit too heavy for you be careful I saw the I saw a picture of Marcus Rashford holding his two trophies right have you seen it they are like the size of like small humans and he's holding both the players player of the year and the Sir Matt Busby one and I wonder if

he was asked whether it was too heavy and he should be handed it. I don't think he would have been. And I think if Alessia had been offered both of those trophies, she'd have quite easily held them as an athlete. But, you know, delicate we are, women, aren't we? Very delicate. Robin Cowan, how delicate are you feeling after a very long season? Pretty delicate, to be fair.

I'm not sure if I could lift even one of those under eights, sort of little tiny ones at this point. But pleased to see you, Faye. I was wondering if you were actually going to be able to join us if you come back off the roof? No, no, I'm still residing on the roof. I don't think I'll come down off the roof for quite a while yet. My voice has recovered, which I'm very grateful for. I'm not entirely convinced that my head has yet. So let's see how today's pod goes. Tracy Brown, a debut chair of Chelsea Pride. Lovely to have you. You must be buzzing after a fourth Chelsea victory. Slightly, ever so slightly. I mean, I think I put on Kelly's Twitter, I said, I'll come and collect the trophy and just take it to Reading if you like. To be honest. So, yeah, it sort of went how you wanted it to.

But you never quite knew because obviously when the team's fighting for their lives, anything could happen in football. But yes, buzzing for the double, obviously. Absolutely. And you mentioned Kelly there. It's the one and only director of the women's professional game at the FA, Kelly Simmons. Not for long, though, Kelly Kelly you're leaving in the summer what are you going to be up to 30 years you've driven the women's game in this country that is quite an amazing feat how are you feeling well Faye you're making me sound old for starter uh good uh good to get the season over and um yeah looking forward to a little bit of a break.

I'm still at the FA for a little while yet, so supporting the transition in terms of the new team and the Leaks getting ready to go out the door and be a new company in their own right. And supporting from our side on the Karen Carney review. So yeah, quite busy for a little bit yet. So feet aren't quite going up on the desk but uh a break down the line that doesn't surprise me in the slightest and we're literally going to bombard you with questions at the end of the pod and find out what uh what's going on and also by the way kelly's family are hatters fans so how are they all feeling after wembley they're delirious absolutely uh hysterical um yes they were all there. They had an incredible

time. They messaged to tell me they were all crying. And I thought of you, Fay, as well. So I just thought, I can't imagine, I can't imagine what you were going through when they were, when it was a shootout. What drama? What drama? I felt sick. And my mum actually videoed, I've got no aftermath videos, photos videos photos nothing because it was just like oh my god what just happened and my mum sent me a video and I'm just sobbing and all you can hear is me in the background going oh my god oh wow amazing by the way for anybody who's been under a rock or doesn't care about men's football Luton Town are Premier League and it is the best rags to riches story you're ever going to hear in your life. And I'm a massive Hatters fan, as you probably know, having listened to the pod over the past season.

And it was just the most incredible weekend. But it was also an incredible weekend if you were a Chelsea fan. It was about what we expected from them in the end, wasn't it? A routine win to end a spectacular season with a record points tally. Two goals from Sam Kerr, one from Guru Wrighton. It means that Chelsea were crowned champions and unfortunately Reading were relegated. Susie, why does everybody seem so unimpressed by this feat? Unimpressed is the wrong word because I think it's actually incredibly impressive, because they've done it despite so many, like, asterisks to the season in terms of, like,

injuries to key players, you know, Peniela Harder, Fran Kirby out for much of the season, Millie Bright for the end of the season, throw throwing Emma Hayes being out for five weeks after an emergency hysterectomy which as we reached the end of the season the last few games I was sort of thinking this is this has been forgotten like people have just forgotten that that happened like that's how easy they weathered that storm and then they also haven't been playing the most amazing football in every single game because of the like ruptures to the team and stuff but the thing that impresses me the most is like it was almost deliberate in that Emma Hayes rotated her squad really early on in the season quite a lot and

sort of went with a little bit of disruption and allowed that to happen and allowed that momentum to shift so that come May they're scoring more than 20 goals more than 30 to 40 percent of their goals in the one month because they've got the players that can come in and step up and and make a difference who have had minutes across the course of the season I mean also why I have campaigned hard all week for it to be called Luton Weekly and you've let me down. Oh no, I've let myself down, to be honest. I told you my head wasn't in the game, didn't I? Completely. I don't want to take the gloss off of Chelsea and Tracy, who's obviously had her own form of delirium this weekend. It was the fourth consecutive WSL title, Tracy, but where does it rank?

I think it's up there. I think Sam, in an interview at the end of the game, was like, you know, it's my fourth, it's someone else's first, so it's just as important. I agree completely. And it does feel like it was hard this year because we have had big injuries and, you know, losing Millie right at the end of the season.

We all know how good Millie is. And sort of nothing really being said about her injury, which is very Emma Hayes. You never get any information. Also, it's been so close, you know, going down to the last day. The only thing I hated about the weekend, and there is something I hated, I hated the fact that while we were sat there, we watched Reading go down. That was actually painful. You're looking at a manager who

has been phenomenal 20 years in football and we happen to be the person who sends her down. Kelly, it's interesting what Tracy said there. And by the way, Tracy, you need to give the fans some credit as well because you guys, Emma Hayes, always nods to how loud you are and how supportive you are throughout the season.

So give yourselves a pat on the back as well. This feels like an appreciation pod, doesn't it? Let's appreciate Kelly Simmons as well. I just want to ask a strange question, Kelly, and don't take it the wrong way, and it might be difficult to answer. But because it's Chelsea's fourth title in a row, it has been more competitive this season, obviously. But does it mean that the WSL has lost a little bit of its shine

because it's the same team winning year in, year out? I think if you're neutral and you're sort of looking at the development of the league, you obviously want all of the major trophies to go to different clubs because that's all part of it being really competitive and compelling. But I think it was a really close title race and four teams were battling neck and neck at the top. I think what was interesting about this season is, and there's people who are much better at stats on here than me, but I think Chelsea got record points and record wins.

So they had to step up and find one more gear, which I think is absolutely incredible. So it was really, really tough. And I think with Manchester United breaking into that top three, so there was a sort of a top four pushing all the way I think it made the Champions League battle as fascinating really in some ways as the title yeah but congratulations to Emma I mean what what a track record it's absolutely incredible and people will look back in history on this and think wow absolutely phenomenal what an incredible uh achievement for Emma and the team yeah it

really is and I 100% agree with you I was just playing devil's advocate that was my job Robin how exactly did Chelsea win it Susie alluded to to the rotation that she made at the at the beginning of the season but what else was was different this year that maybe we've not seen from her teams before I don't I think it was all very similar because, you know, it's like they lost the Conte Cup final again and it seems like they just don't get going until the latter stages and then they're just unstoppable. And this just happens every single season.

And I'm going to hold my hands up, actually. I don't think I've given Chelsea enough credit because obviously as a kind of broadcast, I'm desperate for it to be as exciting as possible but when you actually take a step back it's so impressive what they've done they've got the infrastructure that's the difference just little things like you know when they were having this relentless run of games and you know they won the FA Cup final she mentioned they have a sleep expert. She mentioned that when

Melanie Leupold was coming back and when she was pregnant, they got a pelvic floor specialist, stuff like that. That's why Chelsea keep winning and that's why they deserve to win. We can contrast that, of course, with Reading. Kelly Chambers, eight months pregnant, but she can't delegate because there is no one to delegate to. And that's the thing that, you know, it was so stark for me at the weekend. Just on a separate note, Tracy, you must be so proud of, you know, the content that Emma Hayes provides as well, you know, after wins and things. Because I was listening to Johnny Vaughn actually on Radio X, and he has no interest in women's football at all but he was mentioning you know the quote about emma hayes saying you'll find her on a park bench with gin

and he was just saying it's the most cocky thing he's ever heard and and i just think it's you know she permeates the kind of she has that cut through which i think is you know fantastic it was absolutely brilliant to see all that as well i was ready to go up to north london go and buy a bottle of gin and sit there and message her and go you know what i'm waiting for you where are you you know because there's nothing that surprises me anymore when it comes to i mean it's a joy actually everyone sort of waits now what am i going to say so because none of us actually know and i think to be quite honest i love the fact that when she does speak she she speaks so openly and so passionately. You know, I know plenty of people who don't follow women's football who absolutely love Emma Hayes, which is why you constantly hear she should be running a men's team.

You constantly hear that because of how, you know, incredible she is and what she has managed to do within the game. The pitch is after as well of Emma having a good time with the players. I mean um yeah it looked like it was a definitely good after party but it's great that you know the league's getting tougher I think it makes more people turn to the game and go okay this is more interesting to even watch now because you know it's not just one team running away with it yes we've won it four years in a row which is great but I mean I'll say right now on this, right at the end of the season, if I could win the Champions League next year, someone else can have the league. I don't mind.

Tracey, one of the most emotional moments of the day was when Peniela Harder and Magda Eriksen came off the pitch. We obviously saw them say goodbye to Kings Meadow last week. But how was it actually seeing them walk off in a Chelsea shirt for the last time? And Arthur Sastra has tweeted in. He wants to know, will their loss end Chelsea's WSL dominance? Oh, that's a big question. From a Chelsea Pride point of view and everything we stand for as a group and everything I've done for the last seven years with the club, losing two people who are not just phenomenal on the pitch,

but off the pitch is huge. So, you know, you're losing that aspect of two phenomenal people. And I know for a fact, no matter where they go, and there's booms all over the place, they will continue that phenomenal work for equality. That's just part of their game and who they are. Yes, we missed Peniel for quite a good chunk of the season because of injury.

So we've proved that, you know, we can still sort of muddle along without Magda's leadership skills, though I think are going to be, you know, very hard to replace. Emma's been very vocal, reckoning that, you know, Magda could come back as a future manager at Chelsea Football Club. She has immense skills. So, you know, new signings coming and you rebuild.

You know, we've got a good strong team but they are going to be two people that are going to really be heavily missed at Kings Meadow for sure yeah they really will and I really need to focus on on Reading you've all mentioned them at least once in the in the conversation but I want to read you an email that we've had um Bronwyn sent an email to womensfootballweekly at theguardian.com I'm gonna I'm gonna try and summarize it but actually the whole thing is just beautiful so bear with me Reading FC have been my team since I was a child and the pride I felt at them competing at the top level for so many years is immense Reading I know

are not a big club at the national level but they were a constant presence at tournaments and training camps through my youth as a young girl with a love for this sport. But to see them excel where other clubs have not at the highest level has filled me with so much joy I cannot describe. I think it's easy to think of Reading as a lower tier club and it's easy to forget that from 2017 to 2020, we finished fourth or fifth in the WSL and were in the semi-finals of the FA Cup in 2019.

This from a club whose men's team were in the second tier the whole time that the women's were in the WSL. We're a club who fought with grit and resilience against all odds. Don't get me wrong, I think the growing amounts of money in the WSL are a good thing, but I knew it was a matter of time before Reading would no longer be able to keep up. From the moment that Manchester United were promoted to the WSL, I knew the game had changed, but I didn't expect us to go down this soon. And I am absolutely devastated. She wants to know, Kelly, it's quite interesting, actually. She says if she was to reflect on their time in the WSL and hopes for its future, she hopes that in years to come, the league will even out and become less top heavy is that

what the kind of plan is how do you even go about making that happen well i think first of all people forget that it's only been fully professional since 2018 and some of the clubs that are in the wsl have only been non-non-amateur for what five six years or didn't exist you know so manchester United relatively new albeit that there was a history there before Tottenham Hotspur were an amateur team run by volunteers what six years ago seven years ago so it takes time for clubs to come in build that elite performance environment and get the right facilities and build the talent pathway in terms of bringing younger players through.

You know, that takes time. So I think we'll see, and you've seen, you know, the work that Carla's doing at Villa, helping to sort of close the gap and get sort of closer to that pack and therefore able to cause upset. So I think it would take time. Longer term, if you absolutely wanted to close the gap, you had to try and find some way of,

well, you could either raise the bar of what everybody has to invest or you sort of cap at the top. But if you cap at the top, then you're restricting clubs from being able to compete in Champions League. So that's really tricky. So I think it's really,

it's about working with and supporting those clubs on their development journey. And then I guess, you know, one of the challenges for the you know new co when it when it becomes a company outside of the FA you know the challenge for the new new leadership there will be just to think about whether they sort of force that that raised bar or not but um you know there are knock-on implications of that I just wanted to ask you Kelly like I know what's the vibe amongst clubs, I guess, in that respect? In that, like, you know, obviously we're so used to sort of the individual greed of clubs in the men's game,

sort of not almost allowing for fair distribution down the leagues and, you know, a sort of holistic approach to the growth of football. Are the clubs, you know, because a lot of it is the same clubs do they feel the same way about women's football or is it like is it is it similar vibes is it us and us only or is there because of the nature of the game and how early it is in its development a bit of a more holistic approach to it from even the top clubs yeah and much much more of the latter there's definitely a view that we're all in this together and we've got to build this together. And it's in its relatively early stages of development and a competitive, compelling league, you know,

is a really fundamental part of that. Bronwyn mentioned in her email there, Robin, about how successful they've been in the past and how long they've been in the league. How much of a miss are they going to be? Well, this is a tricky one because it's a bit like Birmingham. You kind of think if you're not going to back your women's team, you shouldn't be in the top tier.

Now that sounds harsh. And I feel for the players and they don't deserve that. But that's basically what's happened. I mean, they've suffered because the men have been under an embargo. So they basically have no budget. I've also, you know, just watching kelly chambers post-match was heartbreaking for me she's clearly struggling with it all and it's it's her it's her club but she's not been supported at all and i also heard that the sporting director is on holiday at the moment so none of the players know their futures and it's just stuff like yeah it's just stuff like that that makes me just feel like well

you you don't care so it just it makes me really angry so um and i hope for her we i know we'll mention that you know there are vacancies aren't there and she she should do a good job but we should also remember she's about to have a second child. So I just, I hope she in some capacity gets some support that she clearly needs. For me, I'd try and have some proper maternity leave because I don't believe she had it really. I think she had two weeks last time. That's insane. I don't want to lose Kelly Chambers from the WSL. So I hope she gets offered another job that she wants, that is the right project for her, where she's properly supported. I think that's really, really important. But we know her affinity for Reading and how much she loves that club, don't we? Just a quick one, Tracey, do you think there's a world where we see Reading make it back up? I know that's a difficult question to answer, bearing in mind their financial situation at the moment.

I don't know. The answer is I really don't know. I'd like to see them back. But I think they're a long way off. I think, you know, with their men's team also being relegated, there's a lot going on behind the scenes at Reading. It would be interesting to see how the future of the club as a whole continues to be with the men's to begin with. So if that continues to fail, then the knock on effect is you're just not going to have a Reading men's to begin with. So, I mean, if that continues to fail, then the knock-on effect is you're just not going to have a Reading women's team. And that's really sad to see, to be fair. Obviously, I can see the budgets and the salary bills each year.

And the job that Kelly Chambers has done at Reading for many years is absolutely phenomenal. And after we presented the medals to Chelsea, I walked straight over to give her a big hug because what she's done is just incredible. And, you know, I wish her and Reading all the very, very best and hope, you know, that they can, are given the chance to rebuild and come back.

But, you know, we talked about how phenomenal Emma is and I think, you know, very, very different circumstances. But, you know, what a job Kelly's done. And I know Emma and Kelly are really close and it was so lovely that before the game, Emma Hayes presented Kelly with flowers and, you know, there was gifts to recognise, you know, an incredible service that she's given to the game.

Yeah, 20 years at the same club that's pretty impressive by the way there's nothing more annoying as a pregnant woman than being told how that you should rest and so I just if you're listening Kelly I'm very very sorry for that because that is incredibly annoying and it feels a little bit like the man telling Alessia Russo not to pick up the heavy award so So apologies for that. That's it for part one. In part two, we'll wrap up the rest of the WSL final day. Do you have business insurance? If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters.

Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com. Be protected. Be Zen. Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So elsewhere in the WSL, everything else pretty much decided already. But Arsenal did confirm their Champions League spot despite losing 2-0 to Aston Villa. Rachel Daly picked up the golden boot. It was a lacklustre performance really from Arsenal, Susie. Sorry about that. Happy to already pretty much be on the beach, I suppose. But when Manchester City went 3-0 up against Everton, did you start to worry a little bit?

I was bricking it. And I had Molly Hudson from the time sat next to me just going, oh, well, there's no way they'll turn over a nine-goal difference. Oh, there's no way they'll turn over an eight-goal difference. Oh, there's no way they'll turn over a seven-goal. Oh, don't worry. I was like, shut up. Just stop talking.

Just stop talking. Yeah, Arsenal limped towards the end of the season right I think I think it's just one game too many well they looked pretty broken um you know there's so many so many injuries so many players out I think Steena Blacksenius has announced that she's broken her hand in that game as well basically probably be in a cast or something for the world cup but i was worried i was very worried and i've been saying all week that um goal difference can change very quickly as we saw um chelsea overturned a really really massive margin on man united within two games or something so i well yeah i was panicked and then when everton started getting goals the relief just started flooding over me.

Obviously, you want Champions League football from a sporting point of view, from being able to recruit players, keeping players, all that kind of thing. But I really wanted Arsenal to get it from a momentum point of view in terms of all the off the pitch stuff, in terms of the crowd building, that kind of thing. Obviously, they were upping the number of games at the Emirates in the league from three to five, which is great, but they also had all of the Champions League games full stop at the Emirates Stadium and built really momentum there. So you would really be seeing a massive drop in games.

Obviously, they've got to get through qualifying because there's no guarantee that they still have that, but at least there's a shot at it because it's been so impressive. And the development of the home and away crowds, the atmosphere at the ground has just been phenomenal. Like in Wolfsburg, going to the fan bar, we were like, just coincidentally, all the journalists had gone to the bar next door.

It was like absolutely rammed, hundreds of fans in this bar next door to us, all singing and chanting in the bar, nowhere near the stadium. And it was like being on a men's away trip. You know, you had a real like vocal, vibrant affinity to the team that I've not really seen on that scale in any other team in women's football. And with that, yeah, I don't know something's changed that was my main motivation for wanting Champions League football was more for the like wider conversation and what they've done on attendances this year because it's been so so so good.

Yeah Kelly you're nodding along there I mean I know that that there's been a request for a commitment from clubs to to play at the the main stadia a bit more are you know that there's been a request for a commitment from clubs to play at the main stadia a bit more. Are you seeing that there's more appetite for that now? Yeah, definitely. We've seen, you know, our tendencies have been up this season over 170%. A lot of that is driven by the clubs putting more games in the main stadiums. But I think Arsenal, without doubt for me, you know, have been one of the leaders in this. And I think the fact that they picked those games early,

they decided what are those big games that are going to really sell and picked them early and marketed them. And Juliette Slott, who's a commercial director at Arsenal, has done a phenomenal job. Actually, I want to ask Tracy this question, because as a fan, it must be really difficult. You know that tickets have to go at a reasonable price in order to grow the game and to make sure that, you know,

the attendances are attendances and not no-shows if you market them too cheap. But there's obviously a balance to be had in a cost-of-living crisis and nobody wants to see the kind of ticket prices we see in the Premier League. But equally, do you think there's an understanding in the fan base that ticket prices have to rise a little bit? Yeah, I think there is an understanding now.

I think everyone realises that if you want to see the game grow, you can't be charging people pittance to walk into a football stadium. Yes, no one wants to see the prices of obviously, you know, Premier League football, but I think even like season ticket prices at some clubs are just ridiculous and of course if you're paying so minimum and then the game's on television that's all right i can watch it on tv i don't need to go and there's where your no-shows are and what we do want to see and yes it pains me to say arsenal have done it very very well

you don't want to see bums in seats at the end of the day we want to see full stadiums there obviously is a growth and a push for for more football within men's stadiums i agree it has to be marketed really well and that does help actually grow the women's game anyway because you get more people come over to watch the women's game when it is played in the big stadiums so there's a lot of work that can still be done but pricing in general yeah there's obviously you can't go too high because obviously then you'll stop stopping people from coming. But yeah, prices do need to rise. You know, I don't mind seeing the prices go up

because the quality of the football is getting better and better and better anyway. We're watching quality games every week. You mentioned Aston Villa. They've been phenomenal this season. I mean, Rachel Daly has been absolutely incredible. You look, there is more teams that are starting to get better. And obviously, yes, we want to see the game grow. So prices will have to go up with that.

And I welcome it if it means that, you know, it really helps grow the game. It's funny you've mentioned Rachel Daly. That was going to be my next question to Robin, actually, because she has been absolutely incredible this season. Equaled Viviana Miedema's record for a number of goals in a single season. I think it was 22 in the end, wasn't it?

30 in the whole, you know, that was in the league, 22, 30 overall. But how impressive is what she's done with Aston Villa? And I know you're going to be commentating on the World Cup. What does Serena Vee even do with that? Well, if Gianni Infantino lets us that's the well yes that's sorry i should have put that caveat in there that's a whole nother pod believe me um but let's let's focus on rachel daly first and foremost because she just has been immense hasn't she she has but and you know her finishings been been brilliant she's such an athlete, isn't she? She's just that ice-cool composure in the box.

But, you know, Villa have now just built a really good team, especially starting XI. Maybe the next step is to add a little bit more depth because, you know, Kirstie Hansen was racking up the assists, Kenza Dali, you know, Alicia Lehman. I'm probably missing others, but they all just seem to be... Carla Ward has got them such a well-oiled machine, and they just

seem to be playing to Rachel Daly's strengths. So yes, she's going to get... It's incredible, because we've been waxing lyrical about Miedema and her goal scoring, and this is just... What an achievement to match that. Absolutely incredible. But yeah, I mean, also it just kind of muddies the waters

in terms of England. Like, what do we do? Because she's been too good. I don't know what we, well, I do know what I would tell Serena. Whether she'll listen or not, I don't know. But we've said on a few occasions, haven't we? I mean, Rachel Daly has to go. She's obviously going to go to the World Cup,

but she has to play up front. And then, you know, again, we're going to discuss this next week because Serena Vigman announces her provisional Women's World Cup squad on Wednesday. So we will discuss who's in, who's out, etc. next week as we discuss the Champions League as well. Let's focus on Everton. Tracy, they announced the retirement of Izzy Christensen prior to the match against Manchester City.

Finished 3-2 in the end. Sum up her contribution to the WSL. Just incredible. I mean, you're looking at the sort of players who are now retiring from the game and we're losing some phenomenal people. You know, some people just don't have words for it. You just look at, you know, where they've come from, the amount of work they've put in.

A lot of people haven't been following the WSL for that long. And you think, you know, you've missed, you know, a good chunk of how great some players can be. I always hate seeing big players hang boots up, but it's part of the game, unfortunately. But she has been phenomenal. I think we can all thank her for everything she's given to us. It makes me feel so old.

I'm trying to reach age out a bit, but yeah, thanks. Wait till you're my age, Susan. I think Izzy's had a phenomenal career and her contribution is absolutely fantastic. And I'm really excited to see what happens next because I think she's absolutely brilliant in the media. I think she's a great pundit and I think she's got a really great next career, next phase of career ahead of her. So really looking forward to seeing how that goes. That's what I actually love about a lot of these players leaving.

We saw Karen Bardsley, obviously Jill Scott, you Scott, many others, the kind of older players. Kate Longhurst we'll discuss in a second, but they're all kind of establishing themselves in new careers now, which is really exciting to see because they've got a lot to bring to the game. We had another managerial sacking within 24 hours of West Ham playing their last game of the season. The club announced that Paul Konczewski was departing. He finished his time with a two-all draw with Tottenham. It wasn't actually a huge surprise, was it, Susie? We mentioned it for the last few weeks leading into it. Yeah, I mean, it sort of had to happen, didn't it? I mean, I spoke to him after the Chelsea game and he looked like a dead man walking to a certain extent. I felt really sorry for him. I didn't

even ask him the question about his future because I felt like I'd be kicking a puppy. The end of the season that they've had, the run of games without a win, you just, you can't stay in a job with that level of performance. They were saved by the start of the season performance. I saw quite a lot of people kind of being very vocal about perhaps he should have gone sooner,

allowing that run to continue to the length it did. Maybe not the best idea, but in some some respects because they were sort of safe I actually think it's maybe this maybe the smart thing to do because there's not the managers available towards the end of a season aren't that many so getting to the end when you know you're safe and then having a little bit more of a I was gonna say a pick of the bunch but there's not a huge bunch anyway but you know like having people like kelly chambers and stuff as options that weren't options before maybe i think is actually the smart thing to do so who they bring in and like what kind of level of support the team is given because i think that's like stagnated a bit after their fa cup

final run that's the big question isn't it like like do they do they up their game and go a bit everton or do they become a bit of a reading a team that is almost like investing for the because they have to rather than because they they want to i think um you know they were the only team weren't they to not play at the men's stadium and you know i think i don't want it to be a token gesture obviously it was highlighted by lucy parker on. Just because you play in the men's stadium doesn't mean you're being backed. But it is sort of a little bit symbolic, maybe. So, yes, I agree with Susie. It'd be really interesting to see who they get in and what sort of backing they do have.

I also understand that he stepped away rather than was sacked. So I shouldn't have used the word sacked. But from what I understand, he actually stepped back. Sticking with West Ham, Robin, Kate Longhurst announcing that she was going to be moving on from the club. She made a few barbed comments, I think, in her statement the week before about how things were going behind the scenes, but maybe a bit more of a surprise than Paul Koncheski leaving

and also another fantastic servant to the game yeah absolutely another sort of WSL sort of legend she's been there since the start and um yeah no it's an interesting one obviously it's her club isn't it she's a massive West Ham supporter it seemed like it was a bit sort of controversial that when things were starting to go wrong, she wasn't being used as much. And I just wonder if sort of relationships broke down there. But, you know, great player, such a versatile player. And yeah, she will definitely be an asset to wherever she goes next. A player who can play a number of positions is always a huge asset.

But yeah, it's always a shame perhaps when you leave a club that you love in those sorts of circumstances. But another one, again, who's a really good talker in the media. Yeah, a lot of avenues. Oh, we're going to have too much competition. I was going to say, we're not going to have jobs very soon, are we?

It's going that way. Drive them out. Drive them out of our industry. Tracey, we knew that Tottenham were already safe before this match, but there were another two goals for Bethany England in this game. The England squad, as I mentioned,

announced by Serena Vigman on Wednesday. This is over to you now, because we have spoken about this all, well, since January consistently. Is she going to make it on the plane? I love Beth. Who doesn't? Rachel Daly could be stopping her from getting on a plane. That's the issue.

I would take her, but maybe I'm being slightly biased. So, you know, I didn't even want her to leave Chelsea. So, you know, she's one of my two. Can I interrupt you? You're definitely not being biased because I think we all think it. And I actually think the defensive situation that Serena Wiegman finds herself in is going to help Beth England's cause because Rachel Daly may be needed at left back.

It's tough. I wouldn't want to have to be picking their squad to go to the World Cup. That's for sure. Well, you missed out on the England job by such a short, short thing, Tracey. Just where would Tottenham be, though, if they hadn't signed her? I don't trust my maths, but I've just had a look

and I think her goals have won six points for Tottenham. So they would have been... And there was other games where you know she'd scored and everything and they lost and they've lost um and if you think if they wasn't doing that if they could obviously you know next season really focus on you know sorting out defense and just you know the infrastructure around the club and Spurs I think will only get better I think you know having her at the front of the lineup and scoring way she is, I think they will only thrive. I think I saw Pradley New-White's

giving her her own award. I think she's contributed to the team in a very short amount of time, to be fair. But yeah, best for England. Best for England. Brilliant. There was also a 1-0 win for Leicester over Brighton to ensure that they finished

10th. I spoke to Willie Kirk yesterday and he said he was really pleased that it was in their hands and they still won the game as opposed to losing and Reading being beaten by Chelsea as the reason. Ava Baker fresh from the under-17s Euros with the only goal of that game. Kelly, we've mentioned so many managers in the pod so far, but Willie Kirk has done a fantastic job since replacing Lydia Bedford at the beginning of November. Where does he rank in your manager of the season list? Really highly.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people would have had Leicester down, wouldn't they, sort of Christmas time. We did, and we get all of our predictions wrong on this pod, so we knew that they were going to survive. Hello, Faye. Hello. I think I said I'm backing Willie Kirk for the biggest comeback in the history of WSL.

Oh, there you go, Susie. That's impressive. My first ever, first ever accurate prediction should not be brushed over. I'm going to have to go back and listen to that. They had no points until January, none. So there's two key changes really at Leicester, obviously Willie moving over to manage the team, but they also brought in a director of football, Lisa Pearce, and between the two of them, they have overseen a fundamental sort of shift and turnaround on the pitch and a lot, a lot of hard work going on in terms of recruitment

and building, you know, the positive culture and performance environments. I think they both deserve praise. So I think there's one well-known change in the club, but Lisa has also done a phenomenal job behind the scenes there. That's a really good point. I don't think we've actually mentioned that at all on the pod. So yeah, kudos for sure.

Manchester United, a 1-0 victory over Liverpool. Lucia Garcia on the score sheet yet again. Obviously not enough with Chelsea winning as well. Where do Manchester United go from here, Robin? Pipped to the post for both the FA Cup and the league. I think they can be very proud of their season. Obviously it's very frustrating to get very close on both counts and not get a trophy.

Champions League next season, they're going to have to have a bigger squad, much bigger. They made the fewest changes between starting XI's this season, which is obviously, you know, possibly why they were successful. Interestingly, Chelsea made the most and they came top. I mean, it's just they're going to have to learn how to do that sort of Chelsea rotation thing because of the

Champions League commitments. And also the tough thing is you can't let the league slip because you want to get, you know, keep finishing higher and higher. You know, Manchester United, I think the fact that they've only been in existence since 2018, they've had a rapid rise, but there is

pressure because of the name. So I think, you know, Mark Skinner obviously calling for them to be a bit, to be given a bit more credit. I think we've given him plenty of credit on this pod throughout the season. I still don't think it's been announced who the Barclays manager of the season has been, but I know that Mark Skinner was definitely up there along with Carla Ward as well. But just a quick one, Tracy, you've obviously seen Chelsea go up against so many different teams in the race for the WSL title how have United compared do you think across the season when you've obviously been fighting Manchester

City or Arsenal for it? I think this year they have been phenomenal again difficult to pick up another club I mean you look at the games we've played against them in the past of this season, how close the games were this season, you can see, you know, the quality of their game go up. I do think there's a big point there of very good to get into Europe, but there's where you see the pressure really build because you have a squad, you're not used to having to do, you know, flying to other countries, rotation. it's a massive big strain on the club and now that's the big learning curve they will have will that impact the league possibly if they don't you know grow the squad size it's hard to balance everything so you know i think there's a massive learning curve that's going to go on at man united and yes because of the name everyone just presumes

they're going to do that because it's Man United. But they've maybe done a bit better than maybe some people thought they would. But, you know, they earned second in the league. You know, it was a tight FA Cup. If they didn't have Champions League football, I reckon they'd be pushing again very, very hard. But I think it will be a testament now to how well they can build in the summer before the season restarts and how well they take that pressure. Right, I'm about to jump off to do Luton Corner on Guardian Football Weekly, but here on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, we're going to do Kelly Corner.

So dive in with your questions to Kelly. Sounds scary. I know. Robin was bombarding you before we even started the pod, so I'm going to hand over to Robin for an opener. Kelly, what a fantastic job you've done. You must be really, really proud. Thank you.

I'm just interested in, obviously, it's difficult to look into the future, but from someone who's been there since the start, a lot of the sort of OGs of women's football are quite protective of it, which I understand. And, you know know there's there's some fear that it's going to go the sort of ultimate aim is for it to become like the premier league like the men's game and obviously aspects of that yes others know how difficult you think it's going to be to kind of balance that sort of the connection we all still have with the women's

game while also you know because we do want more investment and stuff like that that's the connection we all still have with the women's game while also, you know, because we do want more investment and stuff like that. That's the thing in my head. I'm really, because I wouldn't want that job to do that. And that's really difficult to do, I feel. Do you think that's possible? It's a great question. I think that the women's game has got an incredible culture

and the game feels inclusive and the atmosphere is wonderful and the players, you know the atmosphere is wonderful and the players you know have that sort of they know that they're utilizing their platform for a bigger purpose of promotion of the women's game female empowerment i think all of that can remain and should must remain to make the women's game unique and special while still driving revenue growth so that the women's game is protected down the line because it can wash its own face and it's not the whim of club owners who may or may not decide to invest or may get relegated and so cut their investment to the women's team so

it's got to grow revenue to to become sustainable and protect itself but I still think it can keep all of those wonderful things about it. I was actually just wondering, Kelly, whether you, this is a weird one, happy or sad about it sort of flying the nest, right? Because is this the right time for it to do it? I mean, like, obviously we've talked about it for a while. I think, you know, it probably is. But the FA has put a lot of work into building the league. Is it actually ready to fly the nest and go solo?

I think it is ready. I think it's a really exciting stage of its development and I think it's ready that the league now comes out of the FA, which doesn't run other leagues. It's independent and it's just solely laser focused. This is why in the Futuristic Review, I was advocating an independent company. It's because I think that a company, the directors, the board can just make absolutely laser focused decisions on what is best for the women's professional game. You know, if it was embedded within another men's league or when it's embedded in the FA, sometimes you can get those sort of natural conflicts around, you know, that there's no better or greater incentive for them to be invested in and helping drive that business

forward because their shareholders in it. So I think it's a good time. I think it's the right time for it to come out. How much of a focus is there on the sort of independent clubs that exist within the pyramid as a whole? Obviously, you've got some really obvious ones like um lewis and london city and durham you know who don't have a big men's team attached obviously that's a really difficult position to be in when you're going into a league that is driving for real like big investment from the top of the men's game into the women's in terms of like club investment which could really isolate them how much work is being done to ensure that their position is protected because like in many respects a lot of them do a better job at running sustainable clubs than the the clubs that just get a handout from their men's teams because it's it's a much more

difficult thing to do and they have to balance books whereas you know the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United don't they they can have a massive deficit because they know that they're going to get a little in swing from their men's club to to keep them alive. Yeah no I mean it's yeah it's it's a tricky one I mean first all, we've got two of those independent clubs on our board. So those voices are absolutely being heard. And Maggie Lewis and Lee at Durham do a really terrific job of reminding everybody that there's a real variety of women's clubs in those top two tiers. They as much as, well, all of the clubs will be vested in, in how do we drive more revenue growth so that we all benefit. And that's really, really fundamental to them, probably more than some of those clubs who've got the support of the men's clubs. But I think it is tricky because we're all trying to, we all know that we need to invest ahead of maximising revenue growth. I think that's something that everybody agrees in. And we want the product to be of the highest quality and all the

infrastructure around it and the moment it's not you know you guys are rightly ringing me saying no you haven't got this or when's the AR coming in or when have we got professional referees and all of that you know requires money so it is a tricky balance to think about how do we take how do we grow revenue how do we distribute it fairly down down the whole pyramid and how do we protect and support those clubs as we're trying to move forward really, really quickly to grow the women's game? I've got so many more questions for you, Kelly,

but I can hear producer Jack just being like, this is already the longest pod in the world. So we will be bending your ear over the summer and I'm sure we'll have another chat soon and see how Karen Carney's review is going and all the wonderful work that you're going to continue to be doing but it's been an absolute pleasure having you on thank you thank you it's been great to be on Robin Cowan always good to see you we'll have a world cup catch up soon yes please with soft play maybe oh great idea brilliant for us oh, I found a great one that's for adults.

I just kind of leave Ted outside. Send the deets. Tracy, what a debut. Absolutely brilliant. We'll have you on again soon, I'm sure. Brilliant. Fantastic. Lovely to be here.

What a way to spend a morning. You know, perfect. Speak about the women's game. And, of course, having the double in your back pocket is also a bit handy as well. Oh, yeah. Tell me about it. Yeah, and I'm sorry to try and steal all the limelight with Luton.

It's all about Chelsea. But it happens to you all the time. It's fine. Susie Rack, always wonderful to see you. I will catch up with you later on this week. Oh, I know, right? We're not going to see each other for a while. Oh, Wednesday.

You're going to be there Wednesday. Wednesday. Wednesday. It's only a day. Can you do without me for 24 hours? It's not even going to be that. That's everything from us this week. We've got a Champions League final episode for you next week, where we'll also analyse Serena Wiegmann's England squad

and Adam Bateman. I've not forgotten about your tweet from the other week. We'll also hand out a few awards of who were the runners and riders from this season as we wrap up the WSL. The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Jack Claremont and Jesse Parker-Humphrey's music composition was by Laura Iredale. Our executive producer is The Guardian. If not, how would you pay to recover from a cyber attack, fire damage, theft, or a lawsuit? No business or profession is risk-free. Without insurance, your assets are at risk from major financial losses, data breaches, and natural disasters. Get customized coverage today starting at $19 per month at zensurance.com.

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