The Harland Highway - NEW HARLAND HIGHWAY #71 - CONRAD VERNON, animation director of Shrek 2, Sausage Party, and so much more!

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Amazing animation Director CONRAD VERNON is here to discuss SHREK 2, SAUSAGE PARTY, and our wild adventures in animation! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wasn't Chris Farley originally supposed to voice Shrek? That's right. Did he do any of it and then he passed away? He did something, yeah. Oh, wow. He did a lot of it, actually. Was it good? It was great.

Do you think fate stepped in, not to be morbid, but do you think Mike Myers was in the end the better choice, or would have Chris Farley carried it, do you think? I don't think it was better or worse. I think it was just different. Did he tap in any of that crazy VAM down? by the river like did you do any of that with shrek well a little bit oh that would have been cool it was it was it was some really good stuff you're riding down the harland highway all right hold tight

on the harland highway show harland williams you want to wear cans or no i can wear cans it's up to you what do you think fine you like them yeah Crack a cold one before we get gone That sounds even better Um How are you, buddy? Good to see you. Good.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Harland Highway podcast. Let's hit the theme music right out of the gate because we got a special guest today. Uh-huh. Now that's right. It's the Holland Highway podcast. and very, very, very, very special guest here today.

Wow, don't laugh at yourself. Let us do that. Conrad Vernon is here, ladies and gentlemen. And if you don't know Conrad's face, if you don't know his name, he has touched your lives because Conrad, and I know I'm going to embarrass you because you're a humble guy. Conrad is probably in the top. tier of animation movie directors in on the planet um he's directed shrek two uh some of the

madagascar movies robots and no what is it monsters and aliens the adams family movies uh what else i mean one that you were in sausage party sausage party that's right yeah i mean conrad has done it all ketchup right over here yeah yeah i played i did like three or four voices in that movie oh the druggie yeah yeah can i tell the people the process for for that for how we did the voices for sausage party yeah so conrad calls me up one day and by the way me and conrad have known each other what 30 years now at least yeah 30 years and um and so conrad calls me up one day and he goes i'm doing this movie called sausage party and i'm like okay sounds great and then you can you come over and do the scratch the tracks for me and for it for

people that don't know what a scratch track is, it's the preliminary voice tracks that get recorded that the animators can work from before they bring in the final voices, like the big celebrity or the final voice that gets cast for the thing. That's right. That's accurate. Yep. Tempt voice. Yeah, temp voice. So, Connor, it says, come on over. I need you to do the scratch voices for like three. It was like three of the main characters, wasn't it, for the, for the movie? Yeah, well, you were doing Michael Sarah's part. Yeah. And then you were doing, what else?

You were doing licorice ketchup. You were doing all sorts of voices. Yeah. So I did all these voices. So I go over to Conrad's house. I'm thinking we're going to be in the studio. Conrad goes, yeah, go into my closet. There's a microphone in the closet.

So I literally, I'm in there with Conrad's shoes. And I think you have a Leo Sayer polyester suit. And that's when I hit you on the back of the head with a wrench. Yeah. And I never laughed. Are you sure you won't have another sandwich mother clonk? So I'm in your closet doing all these voices. And, you know, I didn't know what the movie was at that point, really.

You know, you told me a little bit. And then the thing comes out, it's hilarious. Did you love it after doing like movies like Shrek that are more like family movies? How did you feel about doing like really kind of an R-rated movie? Well, it was my dream come true because ever since the movie Heavy Metal came out in 1981. I wanted to do more adult animation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just saw rock and roll and big boobies.

When I was 13 and I was like, oh. Oh, with heavy metal? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just like, that's what I want to do for a living someday. So when I just finished up Monsters v. Alien, aliens, and Seth was in it, and he calls me up and says, hey, come up, we want to pitch you something. So I went up there and it was Seth and Jonah Hill and Evan Goldberg, his writing partner, and they put me in the right state of mind, so to speak.

Excuse me, before we're going to, as a guy who does voice work, can you please put the mic over by your mouth? What? No, you've got it like this. You're like, so that anyways. I was, come on, guy. All right, I thought you, I was doing it, and you were fine with it. No, that's, I'm clearly not fine with it.

So I had to grind the show to a screeching halt. All right. And now I'm directing you, director. Let's start over. Let's start this all over. No, no, it's fine. but just keep it there. So we want to hear what you have to say.

Oh, now it's getting bisexual. All right. So anyway, I went over the house and they said, we want to do an R-rated animated movie about a bunch of hot dogs who escape their packaging to go fuck buns. And that was the whole pitch. I was it. And I was like, I'm in.

That's great. This is exactly what I've been waiting for my whole life. And our buddy, Greg Tiern and the Irish director, he worked on it too, right? Yeah. It was his studio that did all the animation. Up in Vancouver. And he did the actual voice of the potato, the Irish potato.

That's it. They're coming to get me. Oh, they're peeling me fucking skin. That's the guy. See, I could have done that voice. Why do you need a real Irish guy? Fuck him. You were ketchup.

Oh, yeah, that's right. But ketchup and the druggie. ketchup goes on potatoes. That's almost like rock paper scissors. A little. Yeah. So you do a. sausage party, and did you love that experience?

Because I remember when I went up there to see you in Vancouver, you showed me a segment that never made it into the movie. There was a segment that you did a reel of. It never went to full animation, but it was all the food having a sex orgy. That is in the movie. No, but not the version you showed me. Yeah.

No, I mean, there were some acts that had to be taken out. Yeah, that's what I mean. The NPAA was like, yeah you can't actually squirt mayonnaise which is kind of ridiculous you know so yeah there was no fluids yeah no fluids or creams or or gels or anything could spatter I know but that's what I mean the version you showed me there were like people giving golden showers and scatting and it was like well there was like a bottle of ranch jacking off over a bunch of of vegetables and and then we had someone like fingering someone else and then chocolate came spurting out of their back end and yeah

relish was everywhere so they were like they were like none of that yeah that's what i mean like you guys you found almost every taboo like sex the scene you've ever seen on a porno channel and put it into the food thing and what you had in the movie was like a seven to me because no one else saw what but the scene that you couldn't put in that I saw that was like a 12 yeah like I think you actually took a live video at one point as a promo thing you had a video of set Rogan and the crew watching that scene well the the the storyboard iris was pitching it oh is that what it was yeah and so we just turned the camera around to the audience yeah and and while he was pitching it everyone was like

screaming in tears. And we actually looked up online Foley for porn movies. Okay. Foley being like the noises that guys make, like in the background, like footsteps. And so what did you find Foley for porn movies? Yeah.

So let me guess it was Dave Foley having sex with a nun. It was slapping. Yeah. Slapping wet. And no, it was like these guys would take like raw pieces of chicken and slap them on their forearms and stuff. And they would take, like, wooden spoons with, like, this slurry of baking soda and water,

and they would fling it against a mirror. And that's what you would hear, you know, stuff like that. What was the chicken one again? How did that go? It was a chicken thigh, and you just slap it on your forearm. I'm never going to KFC again. Thank you. You came here for a little chit-chat.

We were here to have a little talk, and you ruined KFC for me. You ruined it. Sorry. But, you know, Connie, the movies that you've done, like, you know, people don't realize this. You're like an A-list director in the animation world. You know, you go over to cons to the film festivals. Some of your movie won Oscars and stuff? No.

They've been nominated? Nominated. See, that's pretty wild. When you started your career in animation, did you anticipate going that big and that far? No. I didn't anticipate all that, no. Yeah. I don't know.

We were trying to get sausage party nominated, and people were totally into it. But I was like, oh, if this gets nominated, it's going to be so good. It would be good. And that's what movies, like that movie shook everything up. Like, it went against the grain. It was edgy.

It was non-political. It was just crazy. And that's what animation and art should be, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully we open the door. That's what we were trying to do. I know that there's some other studios out there,

getting ready for more R-rated animated movies. I'm doing a new one right now. Can you talk about it yet? I can't talk about it now. Because it's not fully greenlit yet, but we're working to get it done. Am I going to do all the scratch voices in your closet? Yeah.

You'll be back in the closet pretty soon. Can I get some moth balls at least? Last time I left your house had moths laying eggs in my hair. That's all right. It's the kid's room now. Okay. When were we talking about your kid? Earlier we were talking about your kid and what do we say?

What? You said, oh, you said, oh, I've got a kid. And now I've got to take, I got to wake up every day. And I realized I've got to take care of this kid for the next 18 years. And I said, well, if you're lucky, maybe he's a runaway. Yeah, yeah. And I said, there's always hope. Yeah.

But what's the trajectory for sausage party now? Is there any more life to it? Is there a sequel? Yeah. Oh. There's a TV show. Really? We're doing a series.

We got picked up for, that's what I'm going to be doing right after this. You're leaving here and going back to sausage party. Yeah, we're, it's on Amazon. Cool. And we have two seasons. We got picked up for two seasons.

And so we're right in the middle of it. I guess the big question everyone's wondering, is ketchup in the TV series at all? Or catch up? He's in the TV series, but he's not saying anything. You know, he gets spanked.

He does? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course he does. Oh, God. And is it going to be as edgy as the movie was? Like on, or edgier? It's, well, I mean, shit.

It's a little edgier because I'm not going to give anything away. Okay. But I thought after the orgy in the movie, I was like, where the hell are we going from here? Yeah. We go further. You do? Yeah. Orgy, orgy is like, like, child.

play compared to some of the shit we do in the TV show. You know, you've set the premise, just go for it. I think that's fantastic. But tell people to, because, like, I want to go back to Shrek for a second. Because Shrek at one point, probably for a decade or two, a decade and a half, it was the second highest grossing movie in the world, wasn't it? It was right below Titanic. Yeah.

It was Titanic and then Shrek 2. Yeah. And then all the Marvel superhero movies started coming out and then everything shifted. Right. Now, Shrek's like 60 or something like that. Shrek too, but for a while. Adjusted for inflation and all. Yeah, it adjusted for Iron Man's underpants or something.

But how did that make you feel, I mean, knowing walking around, being a director in the animation role, how did you think about that a lot thinking, man, I directed the second highest grossing movie in the world? or do you think through that prism like money or for you is it more creativity it was more creativity I mean yeah didn't see the money yeah aspect of it it was weird that it went you know we went to can with it and that was a blast that was craziness so explain that so you go to the can film festival in France and what's that like like you're walking red carpets and tuxedos and yeah it's just it's it's weird It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very surreal. You go there and suddenly it's like, I remember walking out on my balcony and all these cameras from below turned up right at me.

And then they focused in and went, oh, this is no one. And then they turned away and just started watching for someone important. Oh, no. It's weird because you get into the car and everyone runs up to the car and looks in the window, who are you, who are you? and they're all wearing Shrek ears and... Wow. It was kind of weird. Well, that's what I said at the beginning.

It's like because you're in the animation world, all of that's behind the scenes. You know, an animated movie takes three, four years to complete and you're in offices and cubicles and sound booths and studios. So it's not like a director, like a Quentin Tarantino where you're behind the camera and yelling action. It's all technical. So that's what I said at the beginning.

you, people might not know you to see your face, but the body of work that you've done, dude. Like, it's, it's monster when you accumulate, when you stack up everything you've done, like you're a, you're a top-tier director, man. All right, you tell everyone. Well, that's what I love about you because you, you don't wear that. Like, I know you know what you've done, but you've always been the most humble guy. Like you, you, I even gave you shit a few times. I said, Conrad, do you realize you could go to any bar in Hollywood?

where there's gorgeous chicks, sit at the bar and list your resume, and you're like, ah, that's not my world. You know, it's just like, but the stuff you've done is, it's amazing to. Hicking up on people in a bar as the gingerbread man, I don't think would work. Oh, look at here. So for those of you, this is a great surprise. Surprise. This is a huge surprise, everybody.

So speaking of Shrek, too, speaking of voice work, now you're going to know Conrad, Conrad did the voice of Gingy, the gingerbread man in Shrek too, right? And all of them. Yeah, and all of them. And all the, I mean, can we do the voice a little or how does he go? If it doesn't pop our ears out, we're in these cans with that voice coming through. It's like, oh, my God.

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So be sure to use this code Harland so you get your discount and 100% free shipping. Code Harland. Have fun. Don't throw your back out. Doing that voice for video games was the hardest. It was? Yeah.

The movie you act in video games, they just say, can you scream it a louder? Oh, yeah. So I'm always like going, get the almond. It's just like, you know, chasing and running and screaming constantly. And isn't it funny when you do a voice session? They always, at the very beginning of the session,

they tell you to do all the screaming stuff. And it's like, no, you're going to rip my throat out. We'll do the screams at the end. But this is only screaming. Oh, God, forget it. I had like hot tea, honey. Oh, God. Gargling it.

So let me ask you this, because I think the gingerbread man was probably the funniest character of all to me that came out of the Shrek movies. Now, did that come out of a fluke? Like, were you just doing scratch that we talked about earlier? Like, when I was in your closet, were you just filling in a voice and did it? And tell the story how Jinji came to life. That was, I'm trying to figure out how far back I'll go. Well, basically, I'll just tell the story from the very beginning.

Yeah. because it has a little process in it too. Shrek didn't have any fairy tale creatures in it at one point where I think we had a, the storyline was a bunch of knights from Doolock came and they just burned his swamp down. And then he went to Doolock to find out why they burned his swamp down. That was the whole thing. And wasn't Chris Farley originally supposed to voice Shrek? That's right.

Did he do any of it and then he passed away or? He did something, yeah. Oh, wow. He did a lot of it actually. Good? It was great. Do you think fate stepped in, not to be more, but do you think Mike Myers was in the end the better choice or would have Chris Farley carried it, do you think?

I don't think it was better or worse. I think it was just different at that point because, you know, Mike Myers completely embodied a different character. He probably put the whole Scottish thing on it too, you know. Yeah, and made him a little more acidic and a little more guarded, you know, which was, you know, part of the story. When Farley was Shrek, the story was completely different. He was a happy-go-lucky ogre who wanted to be a knight.

Oh, did he tap in any of that crazy Vam down by the river? Like, did he do any of that with Shrek? Well, a little bit. A little bit. Oh, that would have been cool. It was some really good stuff. Oh, okay. But then when Mike Myers came in, the story had changed,

and so he embodied a completely different character and created what everyone sees on the movies now. Which is great on its own, by the way. But was there ever a moment when Farley died mid-process where they said, you know what? Cancel Shrek. We're not, Farley's gone, sadly. We can't move forward.

We thought there might be something like that. But luckily, the studio stuck with it because it had already been through three directors, four rewrites, and it had been in production for like four or five years. Wow. And then once, I think, I think once, once we got Mike Myers on board and we got Eddie Murphy on board and Cameron, he has a, the cast was just too big to, you couldn't stop it, to let it go. Yeah. So, you know, luckily we, we, we, we kept going forward. And I think, you know, basically the story team got together and came up with this idea about putting fairy tale creatures.

Yeah. So go back to how Gingy came to life. So they were all sitting around and we were saying, okay, well, what fairy tale creed is going put in there? Pinocchio, you know, the three little pigs, you know, the fairy princesses from sleeping beauty, you know, snow white, seven dwarves, all these things. We're listing them off. And then the gingerbread man came in.

And they were like, okay, well, what happens to the gingerbread man? Well, he's the one who's going to give up where all the. fairy tale creatures are hiding and you know that are left in due lock and so just thinking about him cracks me up i'm going to tell them the story about the voice message messages i make you leave but keep going keep going so yeah so they were like oh okay well well conrad you take that scene you know basically far quad's going to you know far quad far quad sounds like something you're doing an Outhouse in a trailer park. Exactly.

Did someone just Fawquod? They left it on the back of the toilet. But basically, they just gave me that scene and said, okay, figure out how Farquod gets the... Fark Quad. Gets the information out of him. I said, well, maybe he tortures him, maybe he sticks him in milk,

and he breaks his little legs off. And, and so I kind of just, I wrote that scene. And then when I, when you wrote the scene, you wrote the, you wrote the gingerbread stuff too. Yeah, I wrote the, I wrote the scene. I love it. And then boarded it out and then got up and you pitch it. Yeah. And the more voices and music and sound effects you can do to sell it, the better.

So that's when I, you know, came up with that little voice, you know, it has kind of like this Baltimore accent sometimes. And, uh, and so I. I just pitched it with that voice, and they were like, oh, this is great, put it in the movie. I did the scratch for it, and then they went out and tried to get actors to do that voice. And they were like, no one can do that weird fucking voice. So you do it. I was like, all right.

Wait, where did the voice come from? Like, where inside of you did you hear that voice? A friend of mine, Mike Mitchell and I. Oh, Mike. Yeah, he directed Ace Bigelow. Deuce Bigelow. Deuce Bigelow, male jigolo. He did a Shrek 4, and he did, he's doing a Kung Fu Panana now.

Wow. But he, uh, he and I used to talk about these little Nancy boy kids that we used to babysit when we were in like high school. He was, I said, did you ever babysit one of those kids that he wears like, they're like eight and they wear open-toed sandals and pink shorts and they're just a little off. Yeah, yeah. You know, it looked like boarding school rejects. Yeah, exactly.

Apple crisp hair and rosy, rosy, rosy cheeks. Yeah, their freckles are mixed in with pimples. They look like a pizza, yeah. It looks like they're wearing, like, base coat of makeup. And, you know, and so we were doing that voice. He goes, yes, yes. He said, I used to babysit this kid, and we took him to dinner one night when we were babysitting him.

He gets out of the car, and he's got his dad's shoes on. And we're like, what the fuck are you doing with your dad's shoes on? He goes, my dad said some. day had Philly shoes. And they were like, God damn it. Get back at the car. We got to go get your regular shoes on. So that voice, we used to do that voice, you know.

And the little character that we came up with was called Randall Candy. And we're like, I'm Randall Candy. For Christmas, I'd like three gones of rose milk cream. And so that was just the voice I put into the gingerbread man. Oh, God. But I gave it some toughness. Yeah, yeah, bless that kid. I'm telling you, when that voice came on, it just popped out.

It just kills me. And so what used to happen is in my daily routine, you'd remember this. Sometimes when I'm having a bad week or a bad day or I'm bummed out about something, I would phone you and I'd say, Conrad, phone me back and leave me a message as Gingy. And you would phone and leave you like a 30 second message. Did you remember any of them? No, I don't remember any of those. The only one I remember leaving, not you, but my nephews, when they were like four,

my sister would call me and she'd go, they're not going to bed. Can you please call and tell them in the ginger man, my voice, they have to go to bed. And I go, yeah. So she put it on answering machine. And I go, hello, Eric and Evan, you need to get into bed right now. Go to bed. You're driving your mom. crazy you know like that type of stuff and and so i i don't remember what i i think i told you some

dirty jokes in gingerbread man's well we always used to throw in a lot of like food items so what i'll do is i'll set up an improv i'll be your cousin ginger vitus and you be gingy all right and i call you i have you over at the house and ask you to drive me to the dentist and we'll just you be gingy and i'm driving you to the dentist yeah we're driving you to the dentist yeah we're driving All right. I woke up with bleeding gums again, Gingy. Can you drive me to the dentist? It's about time you decided to go to the dentist.

What time is it? It's five o'clock in the morning. I hope he's open. Oh, my God. I knew you woke me up way too early. You should have gone yesterday when I told you to. Well, you're lucky I didn't come into your room and breathe right in your nose with my ginger vitus breath. You've always had shitty breath.

Why don't we stop at marshmallow mountain and eat some tangerine treats and raspberry twirl? That sounds great. Wait, I thought you're going to the dentist. I'm trying to give you rotmouth so you go with me, freak. Oh, I lost my teeth years ago. Yeah? I just love it. Can't get enough of that voice.

Have you ever done it making love? Be honest. No. Are you going to? I don't think I, no one would finish if that was, if I'd. Are you willing to try it? Try it? Yeah.

You want me to make sex sounds as Gingy? No, I'm talking about making love to your lady in real life. Have you ever, you know, people do voices when they're making love? Have you ever done Gingy while love making? I think if I did it, I'd have to wait right till the end and go, Oh! Because if I did it any earlier than that, she would throw me off and she'd be like, we're done. Hey, everybody, check out my merchie.

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Get your Harland original design, wearable art at Harbling.com today. And thank you for your support, and I'll just keep the groovy images coming. We were talking about, by the way, I love that story about how Gingy came around. So I want to go back and let people know when we sort of first met. All right. Because we sort of first met when we were like hanging around in Glendale with the animation crowd. Right. And one of my best buddies, my roommate from college, Reg Bordage, was buddies with you.

So I met you through him. You actually, I met you for the first time. I mean, I'm not going to count any of Spaff's parties. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the first time, Howie and Irene and the other friends of ours brought you over to when I was married to Muriel and I's apartment in North Hollywood. Oh, okay, yeah. And that's when you walked in and I was like, oh, shit, it's that guy. Yeah.

And I think the first thing that we hit it off was I had asked you if you've seen the movie Xanadu. Oh, God. And you said, no, I haven't seen. seen it and I said, oh, it's amazing. You've got to watch this. They have, they have, like, as far as the eye can see, like, brown neon. And that's when you lost it and said, I've never seen brown neon. And who wants to? Well, I've seen it in that movie. Orange, yellow, and brown neon. You know, you could just look at your own skid marks at that point. But then you hired me, one of the first times who ever worked together, you were directing a TV cartoon.

called Itsy Bitsy Spider. That's right. Yeah. So Conrad brings me in, and back in those days, when I went to do voice work, like I had to be really comfortable. So whenever I did voice work, I'd take my shirt off and do it topless. That's right. I remember that.

So Conrad brings me in. I get in the sound booth. I take my shirt off, and Connor just looking at me like, okay, you're ready? It's like 7.30 in the morning, I think. Yeah, it was bizarre. But for me, it's like I just had to do it to be comfortable. and then I think I did the voice of a little donkey and he's kind of like, yeah, how are you doing there, buddy?

Yeah. What was the name of my character? It was, oh, God, that's like, that's like 25, almost 30 years ago. It was like a donkey or something. I just had you, like, improv a story about the donkey. Yeah. He was a little kid show host. Oh, yeah, okay.

And then I said, okay, so just make up his origin story. And you made up this origin story about him falling asleep with some sweet pickle relish on one of his legs. And some ants came and ate one of his legs off. And now he was the one-legged donkey. Oh, God. It was the one-legged donkey show. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was wild.

That was fun. That was for a kid show. And we were so high. The whole lot we were making that show. What were you high on? The pot. The pot. We would, just to make up these crazy premises for this show, we'd get a little,

a little buzzed, and then we'd go in and we'd write them. I love it. I love it that the kids are watching shows that are like guys whacked out on drugs. Well, when we were mixing that show, this couple who was doing a mixing next door, like a cop show or something, like a drama, they came running in and they said, Are you guys working on Itsy Bitsy Spider? And we said, yeah. And they go, oh, my God, we get high every Sunday and we watch that show.

See? That was the audience we were reaching. Yeah, you were, man, the crackheads are watching your show. Cray, cray. So now let's fast forward to like decades later. Yeah. So we got to see each other here and there at parties and stuff like that. And then going back to my old college roommate from Animal,

Animation College, Reg. So he's working at DreamWorks. You're working at DreamWorks. They've got a huge campus over in the valley in Glendale. It's like huge. It looks like a university. They actually call it a campus. The campus, it looks like a college.

Yeah, it's got all these buildings and a cafeteria and all this stuff. And it's just all animation people. Yep. So I naively call up my buddy Reg one day. He's working over this. Hey, Reg, I got an idea for a movie. Is there someone I can call and pitch it to? And so he gives me a number of this guy, Chris Cooser, who works over there.

He's a development guy. You can I talk to him this week? Yeah. And so I called him up and I said, hey, Chris, it's Harle. He goes, okay. And I said, I got this idea. I gave him a little like one line. He goes, why don't you come in like tomorrow and we'll talk?

So I go in, I go in and I pitch him. I pitch him the idea I had. Right. And before I pitch it, he goes, hey, why don't we go outside? there's a little outdoor like balcony area that sort of we can sit outside so we're sitting out there I pitch him the idea and he really likes it he goes oh I really like this and as I'm pitching him as fate would have it you must have been going home from work it was like five o'clock in the afternoon yeah it was my way out you walked out the door through the little like patio area and I go

Conrad you go hey Harle how are you doing and Chris goes you know Conrad and I go yeah we know each other real well. And he goes, oh, that's great. And I said, yeah, I'd love to have them work on this idea if you do it. Yeah. And cut to, they bought the idea. I called you. I said, do you want to be on it? And we ended up working on a movie, an animated feature for 11 years. Yeah. We developed it for 11 years and it never got made. And three different heads of development picked it up. Yeah. Right. It was like the first time we pitched it, it was like Jeffrey, Jeffrey Katzenberg. He said, yeah, this is good. Go ahead and do it.

And I think we were working with Christine Belson. Christine Belson, who's now running Sony animation. He's now running Sony animation. And then we worked on it with her for a long time. And then it got shelved. And then three or four years later, Alex Schwartz was head of development. And Bill Demaschke pulled it out off the shelf and said, let's try. this again. We tried it again. We worked on it for a year, year and a half. And then it got put back

on the shelf for another seven or eight years. And by the way, we wrote the script. We had beautiful artwork. There had been all kinds of development storyboards. It was so far along. And yeah. And then, you know, I think five or six years actually later, they had an all new regime at Dreamworks. And they pulled that back off the shelf and said, let's give this a try again. Yeah. And we turned in the, they gave us new notes and new ideas and we went back and we rewrote the script and we turned in that version of the script, literally 10 years to the day

from when we turned in the first original version. It's unbelievable. It was such an extreme ride. And it was a great idea. We can't really say what it is because it's still owned by DreamWorks. But after 11 years of Conrad and I like intensely developing. this thing, rewriting the script over and over, bringing in other writers, doing new artwork, talking about it with, you know, the heads of dreamworks, and, and they finally just let it go

after 11 years. And apparently now it's in turnaround. If somebody wanted the idea, they could pay, I think it's like a million dollars or something now to, I don't know if it's that much. No. Oh, good. The less is better. Oh, we didn't make that. Yeah, no, we didn't make that. But maybe Someone out there, if you're looking for a great animated movie idea. There you go. Yeah, hit us up. But you know what's hilarious about that whole journey is, you know, we had to work with Jeffrey Katzenberg, who was one of the, you know, kind of the top players in Hollywood. Yeah.

You know, like maybe not so much anymore. He probably still is, but I think he's sort of retired more now. I think he's even more into politics now. Yeah. But back then, he was like up there with Spielberg and Lucas. and he was like a top player. And it was so funny to me because I sold this script to DreamWorks

and then me and you were working on it, and Reg, my buddy Reg, somehow I ended up getting an office at DreamWorks. Somehow my office was four doors down from Jeffreys. And it was the most bizarre thing. I'm this kid from the suburbs of Canada and I'm driving into work every day to DreamWorks. And on the way to my office,

there's Jeffrey standing in front of his. I'm on, morning, Jeff. How you doing? Oh, hi, I'll let you know. And then I go to my, like it was bizarre. Well, I think it was the $200 Jack in the Box gift certificate you bought. Oh, yeah, that's right for Christmas. $200.

Yeah, my credit card got canceled. Yeah, I remember. Because they didn't believe. I was talking to Jeffrey one day and he said for whatever reason he loves Jack in the Box. And so I was like, well, this is my first year here, but I got to get the boss a Christmas present. So I go to the drive-thru, a jack-in-the-box, I go, can you give me a $200 gift certificate? Because I'm not going to buy Jeffrey Katzenberg, a $10 gift certificate.

I was trying to impress them, of course. Curly fries galore. So I go to, I go to, I buy this gift certificate for $200. My accountant calls me like 45 minutes later, says, your credit card's just been canceled. I go, why? Somebody just put $200 on it, a check in the box. It literally, they canceled my car.

Is it one person? Yeah, like some fatty got a hold of my credit card who went right to Jack in the box. I'll have 36 sourdough melts. Yeah, exactly. But I remember Jeffrey was such a, and maybe not to you. I was always sort of impressed by you, but because he was such a top tier guy, people were so nervous around him. Like even the top executives at Dreamer, which I'd see them dancing around this guy.

they were so like on edge and I think Jeffrey knew it. I think that's part of the mystique and part of the smartness of being a top executive. You kind of mentally know how to puppeteer everyone. And I got the sense that Jeffrey knew how intimidating he could be and it wasn't like he was a bully or anything

but a lot of times he would just kind of be silent. And I could just see the executives like almost trembling if he was too silent. I remember we'd be in a few pitch meetings. and in the middle of the meetings, you know, some of the executives would just start, and he'd just pull out his phone and start. Yeah.

And I'd see, this would be the executions. So anyways, then the thing, and the thing is we go to the, and then we're going to strategize with the, and they'd look, and Jeffrey would just blow their mind. He would just be scrolling through. Oh, my God.

And they were so intimidated. Well, that was the day of the Blackberry. Yeah, he had a blackberry. So there was like little typing going on. But it was so interesting for me to be around that, Because I had my whole acting career, my stand-up comedy. So he was never an intimidating factor to me. And I remember our first meeting with them when we pitched, you know,

the big group meeting when we pitched her idea. And I was in there after the pitch. I'm like, so anyways, Jeff, I think the thing. And, you know, Jeff, I think, and here's another thing, Jeff. And as soon as the meeting ended and Jeff laughed, I'll never forget it. Instead of everybody, oh, that was a great meeting. The executive was like, oh, my God, Harlan. Nobody calls him Jeff.

Oh my God, you called him Jeff? Nobody ever done. Nobody calls him Jeff. Like, that was the big takeaway from the meeting. I know. It blew my mind. Like, it just showed me how freaked out they weren't. And from that moment on, I studied Jeff.

And I realized he really used silent moments and pauses and just looks. And he was a master at sort of controlling the forces with, you know, kind of mental games. Yeah, I think a lot of the nervousness and, And fretting was self-imposed from a lot of people. Yeah, I think they just assumed that he was kind of mind-fucking them. But I don't know that he was. And you're right. It was, you know, the first time, I remember the first time I ever pitched to him, I worked on ants.

Oh, yeah. And I boarded this scene out. And it was supposed to be the role originally was written for Arnold Schwarzenegger. For the lead in ants? Not the lead. The lead was Woody Allen, but his best friend. Okay. And it was originally written for Schwarzenegger, but then, you know, after thinking about it for a while, they were just like, oh, you know what, who would be great for this actually is Stallone, would be amazing.

And so I kind of, I came from TV animation where you kind of write your own stuff a lot of the time. Yeah. And, you know, especially the 11-minute cartoons, like, you know, Ren Stimpy and all those old ones. Did you work on running the Stimpy? I did briefly. Oh, wow. And then, like, Rocco's Modern Life, you know, they had these little 11-minute things. And so a lot of the board artists would write their own stuff.

So I came from that world, and so I looked at the script, and I said, oh, I've got a couple of ideas for this. So I wrote some new lines and kind of punched some things up and then put a couple visual gags in there. And I remember they said, okay, well, Jeffrey, we were working up in San Francisco. Jeff. Jeff is coming in And I call him Jeffrey Because that's just what I got used to Scaredy cat

Oh don't Don't make me call him that Jeff So it's Jeff Jeff Your macaroni's ready Jeff come and get your jack In the box Jeff

Sorry sorry I had a moment Yeah you did So I keep going I had a Jeff seizure Oh my goodness I think I just threw my Jeffrey out you've been holding this in a long time yeah thank you thank you for this that's good this is therapeutic yeah um but yeah i so i said well he's coming in and you're gonna pitch this to him

and i and i got immediately got nervous and then i just was like yeah fuck that i'm not gonna get nervous if he if he doesn't if he doesn't like it i go back to tv yeah you know what i mean and so i went in there and i pitched and it was kind of a out-of-body experience because it was I was, you know, totally wigged out because it's the first time I'd worked on a feature. Yeah, yeah. And by the end of it, they said, oh, my God, he was cracking up. He was, he was, he was, he was howling. We've never seen him laugh that hard, blah, blah, blah.

That night he put me on his jet, flew me back to L.A. His private jet. Him and Spielberg had a jet. Yeah. And I got to go on it once, too. We flew up to San Francisco for something, but keep going on. And that's surreal. Yeah, that was surreal.

Because I was like, I was like, oh, they said, We want you to come back tonight and pitch to Stallone. And I was like, oh, shit, okay. And so I thought, okay, well, I got to get a Southwest flight. No, no, you're flying home with Jeffrey. So get on the jet, and it's weird. It's crazy. I'm like, where the hell am I?

This is nuts. We land, we get into a car. It takes us to, at the time, the William Morris agency, we go into a room. Stallone walks in. And then that's when you get that weird out of body where you're kind of sitting in the upper corner of a room looking down on yourself doing the whole thing. I don't remember anything about actually doing that. But it was just about getting past the nervousness and just saying, screw it.

This is what I do. I hope you like what I do. If you don't move on, we'll just move on from each other. Yeah, you have that initial moment of intimidation where you're like, oh my God, this is the head of the thing. This is the guy. And you kind of go in your head, you go, I can only. do what I can do. I can only do it the best I can do. And I'm going to throw it at the wall.

I'm going to try and do my best. And you're right. You got to learn how to just let it go and leave it alone. Do you remember this? And I remember, but I want to see if you can back me up on this and be honest, when we finished pitching our movie and you did the majority of the pitching. Like I threw in a few well-timed like, yeah, and that's one the thing. But you did like 95% of the pitch. Do you remember at the end, Jeffrey said that's the best pitch I've ever heard? Yeah. I mean, he was basically, he said, that's a full package. It's a whole, you got everything in there. You've got a great story. You've got great main characters. And you have a theme. Yeah. He loved it. It was such a shame. It didn't get made,

but it's still out there and sometimes movies take forever to get done. What was the theme? We can say that. Yeah. The stand still too. long and life will pass you by. Yeah. Maybe people can guess what the story is based on that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe they'll guess. But that goes back to what I was saying about you kind of stepping into this top-tier

level because now you're flying in Jeffrey Katzenberg's private jet. Now you're going down the red carpet with him at Cairns. Now you're mingling with Stallone. You're mingling. I mean, I did another voice on one of the other movies where. I went in the same day that Charlize Theron was there. Was that the Adams family? It was Adams family, yeah.

Yeah, and, and, and, but you, you know, you're there with Seth Rogen. You're, you're dealing with top tier A-list celebrities. I mean, what's, tell me about that. What's that like for you? It's great. I mean, it's, it's, it's great to work with these people because they, they bring it, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's like there's, when you are watching this, and that's why you're actually

in the movie. and not just scratch because when you're when you see scratch yeah you know you're it's just like people it that you get that are production people that just come in and go huh nah nah nah yeah they're filling in yeah and and then you realize how much they bring to the table when they go when they come in and they they they not only do a great voice and there's great acting but they also bring in like oh I have an idea for a line here or like this is a perfect example this happened to lot on sausage party because it was just all comedians yeah yeah and and so there was this time when michael sarah came in and he was talking about because his character has this little it's like the

the the the sausage casing wasn't all the way filled so he has this little slant on his head and he's shorter shorter and everybody else and he's like yeah maybe i'll find love sunday and he goes maybe there's like a i don't know a smushed bun or something that uh you know and so we we actually love that improv so we wrote that into the story where at the very end one of these buns in the package gets smushed yeah and then when during the orgy Barry's just kind of wandering through watching everyone fuck and he looks over and he sees this smush bun and he's just like oh wow that's just for me yeah runs for oh I love it so I mean stuff like that is priceless you know you get all those ideas from from these people that just yeah you know and it's just it's got

be funded to step into that. It's sort of an elite world. That's what I'm alluding to, obviously, with you, is you have a window into a very special place that, you know, only top tier directors in the live action world like Tarantino and Scorsese and Woody Allen and people like that. Like, you rub shoulders with all these huge stars and these huge festivals and it's pretty amazing, you know, quite the, you know, huge career with all that. I'm lucky I got to meet him and get to work with him.

I mean, you know, I got to work with Martin Short a few times who I love. Yeah. And, you know, just when you get to meet the people that inspired you when you were a kid, John Cleese, Martin Short, Steve Martin, all these people I got to work with. And it's, that's what I love the most. It's amazing to be able to meet him and work with them. Yeah. And out of all the big kind of movies you've worked on, is there a favorite or is it,

is there one that sticks out? Sausage Party was the most satisfying creative experience. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love all the movies I worked on. They've all been fun and hard as hell. Yeah,

it's so much. Just real quickly, tell them the process from the moment they say, we want you to work on an animated feature to the day it's finished. It's three, four, five years, right? Well, I mean,

the actual production of it is like two. Yeah. But you're not talking about how long it takes to write the script, you're not talking about rewrites, you're not talking about getting artists to do you know, paintings for you and designs for you and make this package that you then take to the studio and say, do you want to make this? And if they say, no, that all goes out, all that work goes out the window. So like, for instance, Monsters versus Aliens, I worked on for two years before they actually greenlit it. Yeah. And then once they said, yep,

we're making this, then it was another two years and change. Yeah. to finish it off. It's such a long process. And then sometimes, I mean, when I was at DreamWorks, I saw not only our movie, but I saw multiple movies that were deep down the development road and then just gone. Yeah, there was a couple, there was a couple that I worked on.

It just didn't, that didn't like, no. Yeah. And it's just amazing, the work and the depth. I mean, with the one we were working on, I mean, I remember the, the, the, Bill Damaschi giving me a release date. He goes, it's coming out in this year. year we love it oh my god like it was all this stuff and just there was there was always a reasoning behind it there was no there was always like I remember the first time it was like well

it's too much like toy story that's what they're afraid of which it wasn't which it wasn't and then the next time it was like well it's not a big enough tent pole movie yeah you know it's not a gigantic action yeah balls out extravaganza and then then the last reason we got was oh this won't play internationally. Yeah. So, I mean, there was always a reasoning behind it, but it was... I wish the reasoning came the day you pitched it and they said, yeah, this just won't work instead of 11 years.

But that being said, all the fun we had, all the times we had to spend writing and doing artwork and in meetings. I mean, we had a lot of... We even got to the point where we developed our own language. Yeah. Right? Oh, no, no. That's this right here.

What's that? Oh, yeah, sea fleece. That's a sleastack. Stack, yeah. We'd actually be in meetings or waiting outside of me. And we'd been through so many. We'd get to the point where instead of, we'd just be like,

or we'd see each other walking down the hall and you'd just be creeping up behind. We'd go to the cafeteria at lunch, salad. We just did it all this. Eating bacon. Well, one of the things that I love about Conrad is, you know, all your success with the movies and everything. That's at a studio level. You know, I've been in Hollywood a long time, and I've been fortunate enough to be in the movie industry,

the TV industry, the voiceover, the stand-up comedy. Like, I've been able to have a very varied career. And, you know, I meet a lot of artistic people. And I think to myself, there's certain people I meet and I go, boy, oh boy, Hollywood was made for these people. And you're one of those guys because, you know, after spending so much time with you, I look at you when we're developing the movies. And it's not only just hearing your creativity when we're pitching ideas or we're actually writing the script or we're throwing ideas around or you're sitting down and doodling. There's a peanut in Jackson's Hole. Yeah, exactly.

Like, you have such a, you are creativity. Like, you're such a creative person that I think the initial idea for Hollywood was to find people like you and extract from them all the gifts that they have. So to me, you've always been one of those guys. And case in point, there'd be a lot of times where we'd just be sitting there talking and you just start doodling. And at the end, I go, what are you doing? And you'll hold up, it's just a doodle, but it's like,

like, dude, I'd hang that on my wall. I'd do a t-shirt of that. So one thing I want to do, and I'm going to compress it down, but I want to bring out, like, piece of paper. Right. And why don't we both just do a doodle? And we can either pick some words,

or we can just do a random doodle. If you want to pick, like, a few key words to base the doodle on, or we can just come up with something out of our heads. You come up with something. Okay. You come up with something and then we'll draw whatever it means to us right off the top of our head. You want me to come up something for both of us?

Yeah. Just come up with like a phrase or anything. Okay. Cucumbers go to the roller rink. All right. Yeah. All right. The other end of that has a problem.

probably a better tip for you. This is too tiny. That's too tiny. Do you want a Sharpie? Yeah, because this one has an angle on it. I have a Sharpie, too. Cucumbers go to the roller rink. Or if you want to do something else,

it's totally up to you. All right, let me try. Whatever you want. And take your time, because I'll edit this down, but. All right. Just the first thing it comes to your head, right? Yeah, right. Great.

How's yours coming along? Oh, good. Ready? Yeah. It's got run over. Oh my God, that's hilarious. And this looks like one of your t-shirts. I like that.

I like that guy. You like the hands? Yep. Oh, so hilarious. You actually at one point, because I love your doodles when I was developing puppy dog pals. Oh, right, right. I asked you to do the design. So some of the early designs from my cartoon puppy dog pals.

Yeah. You did. I'll see if I can find them and put them up on screen. But, you know, puppy dog pals is like little pugs. Right. And you did these great, hilarious illustrations for pugs, and we actually were looking at those at the beginning of the show and thinking of using them.

That's right. Yeah, they were great. I remember. And I think this is your favorite character. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. This is my favorite character. So this is a character that's actually from the movie we wrote together.

We won't say what it is, but he's, oh, I love this guy. I guess we could say his name, right? Sure. Yeah, this was Mr. Meaty. Oh, wait, I forgot. For some reason, this is important. Yeah, the anger. Mr. Meaty's a hamburger patty on the loose.

And he always had, I forgot the sweat. There was always just a little bit of meat juice. I got to add the meat juice. What's that called that stuff? When you dip, Oju, is that what it's called? He's sweating Oju. He's sweating Oju. There.

Oh, look at that. Look at that Mr. Meaty. Well, before we go, I got two last things, and we're going to wrap it up. All right, because we've known each other for a long time, and I thought it wouldn't be appropriate if I let you leave here without me pulling out the cinnamon journal and reading a poem about our friendship.

Please. Is that all right? Sounds lovely. Are you all right with me reading to you from my cinnamon journal? As long as I don't have to look you in the eye while we do it. No, because I'm all right. I'll be busy reading. So you can gaze at me if you want.

I will. I'll do that. So this is, we've known each other what? I'd say what, almost 30 years? Has to be 30 years. God, dude. Well, this is a poem, Conrad and My's friendship. Hello, friend.

Special friend. Wait, what's that? Just hello, funny friend. Yeast fudge, cinnamon crisps, garlic wisps, blueberry termite tits. Oh, hello, friend, slap happy friend, rhubarb delights, gingery crab claws, nearly young skid-marked underwear hanging from a chandelier, Sigourney Weaver's wig, humping a hedgehog. Oh, hello, friend.

and high there too As you wander down life's long dusty road The wind in your face The croak of a toad I'll be there at the curbside To lighten your load With a nice cold glass of Newman's own Raspberry Lemonade

Oh don't you know So hello friend Hello Hello hello Hello friend Can I get you some jello. Is that it?

Yeah. Beautiful. Well, it seemed like you paused for a minute there. I didn't know you were done. It looked like you're going to get sick. No. No, I was just waiting to see if there was anything else. It could have been longer.

Hello, friend. That's beautiful. Thank you. To our friendship, right? Yes, I love that. The last thing we do, Connie, to all our guests, this is called Words from a Wooden Shoe. This is an authentic Dutch clog.

There's words inside. Reach in. Read the word and see if it triggers a story or a memory from your life that you can share with the gang before we go. Oh, God. Okay. Hold on. Oh, what's the word? That's two words.

Okay. Trapped somewhere. Ooh. The first thing I think of? Yeah. This podcast? Oh, no. Very good.

No, but close. The only thing that I've ever felt completely trapped in is a conversation when I'm really stoned. Like, when I, like, we used to go to these parties over at Spaff's house. Yeah. And we'd smoke a little, and I would get into, like, someone would corner me and get me into a conversation. And I just remember going, I have to get out on this conversation in my head.

I'm like, I got, I get it. And I'm just, like, kind of nodding and smiling and they're just, like, talking. And I started getting agita. And I was just like, oh, my God, I can't, I can't walk away from this. I can't, I can't, I'm trapped. And a bit of paranoia, too, like, just everything's flooding. And then all of a sudden my brain starts saying, what if you just spit at him? Wow.

What if you just spit in their face, right? What would happen? And then I was just like, going, oh, my God, don't think this. Oh, I got to get out. That never happened with me, did it? No, it did not happen. with you. And God, now I just walk away.

This was back when I was like, like at a party and I was trying to, you know, work my way into culture. Yeah, you didn't want to like ruffle anyone's feathers. Yeah, I didn't know the people that were throwing the party very well. So I was trying to be friendly and open, but someone would just come up. Just trapped. Yeah, and I'd be like, oh, God. You just want to be out laughing in a convertible eating like a chili dog or something.

Anything. Pousage party. That's the only thing. Oh, cool. Well, Connie, before we go, tell everyone if they wanted to find you on social media or tell them about any of your upcoming projects, anything you want to plug or say to the gang before we shut her down. I don't have any.

I mean, I'm on Instagram at Connie V711. Okay. That just has a bunch of my artwork and stuff. Oh, yeah, go look at it. That's what I mean. Like, his artwork is freaking amazing. So go look at his artwork on Instagram. It really is.

It's like these are great, but wait, do you see what he does? It's unbelievable. And yeah, there's nothing, I mean, sausage party will be on Amazon someday. Yeah, when's the kind of, did you have any idea? We don't have an air date yet. But it'll be within the next year. Okay. Or so.

Can we maybe just, does a treat to the gang and the show with a soft little, Gingy and Gingavitis goodbye? Yeah, sure. Well, it sure was fun having you here, Gingy. Thanks, gingivitis. I hope everything went well at the dentist. Well, I lost three teeth and I need a root canal. That's all right.

I don't have teeth, as you well know. I just have icing lips. Really? I know about a glory hole down at the Shell Station. Here's a question. If I'm a cookie. What are you? A man?

Gingerbread man. Everybody, Conrad Vernon, right here on the Harlan Highway Pocket. Buddy, thank you, man. My pleasure, dude. What a treat. I haven't seen you in way too long, so we live in Austin now. I know. It's great.

And we stayed at your house when we went out for the Austin Film Festival. That's right. And just great to see you, buddy. Keep your beautiful talents. going out there to the world and best of luck on all your new projects and uh love you buddy and great to see you man love you and thank you for having me on and appreciate it oh yeah it's been great and until next time everybody chicken chalmane baby