The Headgum Podcast - 80: Writing Advice (w/ Zach Dunn!)

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

Headgum Podcast 3-Timer Zach Dunn joins Amir, Johnny, and Geoff to dole out writing advice and to discuss Walmart, Austin Powers, and FAZON! Check out the new Headgum podcast, XOXO, Gossip Kings! BUY THE HEADGUM PODCAST MERCH! Advertise on The Headgum Podcast via Gumball.fm Rate The Headgum Podcast 5-stars on Apple Podcasts. Join the Headgum Discord.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Original. Previously on the HeadGum Podcast. Hey, so what are you doing after this? What part of town are you from? I can barely hear you, dude, but I love what you got there. Yeah, my roommate, he's actually out of town. Love your style. Did you drive?

Okay. I didn't, man. I don't drink and drive. Sick, sick. I love this club. Holy shit, is that Roan? Yeah. Come here often.

Roan has a table. Where's the bathroom at? head gum podcaster back at it again uh i'm in such a good mood today i mean it would take so much to sour me so you guys can come at me with everything that you have, and it's still going to be fun to me because this show is a blast to do. Is that a tattoo? What do you have on your arm there? Is that a tattoo? Yeah, I got it.

It's a lemon. Is that new? It's new. I asked for like a dancing bear, but they sold me a lemon. Nice. Wait, what is is that why would you get that it's such a prominent location too it's for my dead dog

um Jesus I'm that's really cool but that's your first like visible how does it connect to your dead dog so my dog who's dead

used to never want to play with any toys but if you would throw a lemon across the room he would play fetch with me so I kind of was missing him Johnny let's see your chest piece absolutely not not on video

why not because that's reserved for very special eyes you have a tattoo on your chest yeah it's an angel a guardian angel holy shit and that's the only tattoo you have is this huge thing I have another tattoo it's smaller

it's a fidget spinner it's a fidget spinner alright well I'll uh it's a fidget spinner it's a fidget spinner no all right well i'll explain it in a second sound of johnny taking off i mean he's absolutely achieved lift off also we should say that it's we have zach done on the show today uh you're in the three-timers club before i talked before being introduced i'm really, but I'm really excited to be here. I guess because I'm in the

three-timers club, I feel so comfortable that I feel like I can just talk and just not even wait for stuff like that. And also, I was on that one episode where you called me, so I don't know if that, you know, three-and-a-half-timers club, maybe? If you want to call it the three-and-a-half-timers

club, then yeah, welcome to the club. That's how I feel. Thank you. three and a half timers club maybe if you want to call it the three and a half timers club then yeah welcome to the club thank you we can't play copyrighted music anymore because we uh um we're doing these video episodes i was gonna say is that you should know that you're on video now on youtube okay okay that's the thing that you decided to wait to tell me until we started that's good i mean i don't know i don't think i'm like doing anything weird visually so it's fine it's not like you got me with well you did you did comb your hair back you said no i didn't this is this is i did my hair is just this is just normal how i how it is you look very inside put together zach so i wouldn't have been able to tell that you didn't know this was a video episode yeah

thank you so much you know I guess I still want my friends to think I look nice you know what I mean even if the audience isn't looking at me I value you guys all your opinion and Johnny we're new friends you know but I still yeah now that I know you have this cool chest tattoo I want you to look good already getting into some good stuff but let's get our head in the game Jesus Christ Amir I haven't talked to you for like two weeks and what a respite it's been

yeah okay yeah you have but I don't know are you gonna ask me a question we do text we've spoken like over text over the last two weeks i wasn't on last week's episode if that's what you mean that's i guess what i mean um yeah anything new uh i was in florida last week yeah you had a funny instagram story where you were just kind of pointing out the, not even idiosyncrasies, just kind of detritus that comes

with the state itself. The what? The detritus, the garbage, the things that should be disposed of in terms of culture and joy. Oh. I've never heard that word. Yeah, but Florida's different, to be sure. It's nice to see how the other

half live you know they you know they act like there's no pandemic so it's nice to take a little COVID vacation of sorts so you're walking around malls indoor dining outdoor dining not a mask in sight

they really leave it up to the people to decide whether or not they're going to mask up. And Florida is filled with people that have decided not to. Really, California should be the one that leaves it up to their citizens. It's kind of ironic in that way, because we would probably mask up regardless. It should be stricter there and looser here but i guess uh if you flip it around everybody would just move states so like it's kind of like a game theory in that regard like there's no way to achieve an ideal equilibrium like um people sort of gravitate towards like-minded communities so yeah sorry you were telling me to vamp and then you told me to stop stop that's enough stop so i guess i'm done

well that was really interesting amir thank you for sharing all that i feel like yeah i mean i'm an amateur sociologist of sorts so it's kind of cool to bring up these like kind of fun, interesting population related hypotheticals, I guess. Anyone who travels as an amateur sociologist, then by your logic, major key alert. Oh, that was anybody.

Yeah. Anybody who travels as an amateur. Yeah, of course. Do you live as the romans do in florida where like you yeah weren't wearing a mask close i was i was outdoors no mask indoors like i went to a walmart for the first time i've never been near a walmart because there's not really any in la or new york or at least not in places that I've ever been to. So it was fun to like go inside one of these classic American institutions.

You know, Walmart employs almost two million Americans and I've never been inside one. So it's cool to be like, oh, this is where you can buy chicken and an assault rifle. And there's also like shoes and toys

all in one magical place. It's kind of cool. Yeah. Did you buy all those things just to kind of have the full experience? Yeah. So I got a matzo ball soup and a BB rifle checked out at the same place. I got vans and a gap. Somebody told me that Walmart has 150,

somebody told me that Walmart has 150 150,000 products versus like Costco which has like 5,000 you have so many stats about Walmart I'm an amateur sociologist now

I like this you're a statistician is that what it is? Statistician yeah have you guys been to Walmart? Of course. I live right by Walmart back at home. Grocery shopping there? No.

Walmart is like the lesser version of Target. So we go to Target instead to do our groceries where we don't have to live in fear turning every corner at a Walmart. Yeah. Yeah, what are they like in new jersey uh they're very there's a lot of eyes on you all the time it feels like uh people are looking at you not to steal things at walmart oh i see yeah target is like a bed and breakfast whereas walmart is um a hostel from the movie yeah From the movie Hostel. Yeah.

It's funny. At Walmart, you feel like there's a Target on you. And at Target, I don't know, maybe like a Walmart. Well, it doesn't work both ways, but like it was pretty interesting. No, it's so close to working. It's like crazy how close it is. What's that? It's so close.

It's like good, I think. Yeah. It is close. I like those greeters. The greeters the greeters sorry i'm trying to go i think jeffrey you're playing this like use the yeah use the radio thing that's like an additive thing yeah instead of a interrupter yeah yeah it just feels like it's i'm the guest sort of and i feel like if anything i should kind of get to speak you're getting cut off basically but i was trying to cut off Amir but there's like a delay

like I want to I just hit it right there Game over because that joke fell flat I was trying to punctuate I was trying to add not subtract and then I'm sorry that it didn't go the way that we all wanted it to. If the joke falls flat you don't like repeat it all the time Oh this would be good. Next time I'll do that

That's good that's fast I can see how fast that played out I hope I don't get that you know what I mean oh my god that's like getting gonged yeah please please don't get me that but I was just gonna say I like the greeters at Walmart and I think that is something

that Target doesn't have and that's just basically what I wanted to add I'm so glad to be back on the i'm bringing so much to the table and it's just like electric the kind of vibes i bring and you're welcome everybody well we do i want to get all your guys's thoughts on this uh this is a weekly segment we've been doing zach this is something new since the last time you were on. Bond of the Week.

James Bond of the Week. Daniel Craig is out and we don't know who's in and we don't know how long it's going to take. Every week until the next Bond is cast, we're lobbing up ideas for who we would love to see as Jamesames do you have a bond of the week yeah that's a really good question um yeah i wasn't prepared at all for this you know but i i mean i have improv training as you know so it's pretty easy for me to come up with an actor who i think would be good yeah um we've we've settled

on the fact that he doesn't have to be from the UK. That's really good. Yeah. That really helps. Um, I think you should go with someone funny. Um, like maybe Mike Myers,

cause he's kind of done Austin powers, which is so close. And then I think you get him doing bond and it's like, it's like he's, he's wearing an old pair of shoes. You know what I mean? And he can be funny if we want, or he can be really serious.

And if we want, uh, maybe some of the characters from Austin powers could be in the movie too. Number two, Basil exposition, fat bastard, mini me,

um, trial for business. And then you get them all in the mix. And then it's just, then it's just Austin. Then it's just then it's just austin then it's just austin powers seems like a little bit of a reductive way of viewing it but i think it would have austin powers type energy combined with that james bond type swagger in a way that would be box office bonanza that's cool yeah and i'd write the damn thing if they'd let me i think it'd be fun i don't know if that's a part of the game but i'd love a crack at that i'd need the money for something like that

oh my god yeah even if they don't end up using your script yeah you pitched this by the way so it is your idea and your ip but you're not even excited about it to write it for the idea you you're excited about the paycheck no i'm excited i'm obviously excited about it to write it for the idea. You were excited about the paycheck. No, I'm excited. I was excited about the idea. I came up with the idea. I'm just mentioning the paycheck. I'm not one of these guys who's like not going to touch my James Bond starring Mike Myers buddy.

Like money matters. I live in a capitalist world. I can't ignore that. So you guys can all do money doesn't matter. Yeah. I love cash too yeah I'd love to like have it some writing credits on that as well you want

you want multiple what would the two be Johnny I'm gonna give you co-story guy with me and co-screenplay thank you and actually the WGA just there's a new rule where you can get additional writing material credit on live action features. So, I'm going to give that to Amir.

So, what does that entail, additional writing credit? You know, it's basically just like people who did a pass on a movie or worked on it. You used to not get any credit for that. But that's a thing that the guild voted on and and lobbied for for people like you amir who brought a lot to you know the bond movie but like i feel like he brought as much as i did and that's next to nothing yeah no no you'll be in the mix too jeffrey don't worry you weren't even gonna have this idea you weren't even gonna have the idea then i introduced the segment and then you said i have improv training i can come up with something now you're suddenly like striking gold theoretically for me it's not about like how

an idea happens like it's just about the idea you know it's not i'm not gonna i'm not doing he said she said for like what god oh my parents gave birth to me they deserve partial credit you know i would give them partial credit you give them credit for that you brought up as an example they could co direct have they ever directed um um my dad's been in kind of managerial positions in his life uh so he could be sort of a directing directing is the easiest part right because you're just sort of like you're in the everyone's sort of telling you what to do the DP's like I want the frame to look like this and the actor's like

I know what words to read and where to stand and then the director's like alright action you can almost get totally not really they're at the helm of the entire ship they're the captain they do you can almost get like an MP3 player that says action every 42 minutes and get 70% of what a director

does. How do we automate the director? We get so much press for doing that. For having to use the MP3 player. Yeah, MP3 by the way, not a phone. I'm stealing that for my James Bond movie. That's really funny.

So who gets the directing credit credit a mirror for the idea or an actual ipod nano i think it'd be like director dot mp3 yeah so it's like a file yeah sorry so this title card looks directed by director dot.mp3 or is it just a title card that says director mp3 no the first thing you said okay are you crazy yeah it wouldn't say just director mp3 that doesn't mean anything yeah yeah yes right it doesn't mean anything yeah i'm saying like it wouldn't say just like steve spielberg at the middle of a movie it would be like directed by steven spielberg that's the credit yeah but steven spielberg's a human director you're

talking about you said it was a file which a movie is just a file so it's like is the file attached to the movie oh that's not a bad idea if we can and we can zip the two files that way people can just sort of uncompress it at their own leisure oh yes but the two files would be the dcp it would be the digital cinema package that has the movie and then it would be just the audio waveform of someone saying action every 42 minutes and you're going to watch that back to back? It's not a waveform, by the way. It's an MP3. That's two different things.

Waves and MP3s. You should probably brush it up on the show. Aren't you a podcaster? Yes. You should know the difference between a wave. MP3s have waveforms. It's just not .wave.

You're getting into science. Okay, Geek Squad. I'm not a nerd. I'm not here to talk about nerd shit. I'm here to have fun. This is crazy. We're talking about a freaking nerd convention. No, we we're not we're talking about a high budget sequel to austin powers that you're just going to call james bond you're saying that ray fines is gone q is gone you're still mike myers you're

saying mini me is in there you're saying doctor whatever his name is in there doctor evil evil yeah yes you don't even know who dr evil is and it's not gonna be exactly the same there's gonna be differences i mean once like have you read the script or like you haven't even written it you come up you came up with it eight minutes ago i've read exactly but you're saying all these things for sure about how the movie's gonna be like yeah i actually think ray fines is gonna be in the movie and he is going to be playing Dr. Evil. Sorry. So he's not even going to be playing M, a character he has played

in the franchise. He's going to play Dr. Evil from Austin Powers in James Bond. Think about it this way. Who are some of the two most evil characters ever? Dr. Evil. No way that's number one for all of you. To Voldemort.

Who played Voldemort okay who played voldemort ray finds ray finds now you're accessing that kind of evil power for him to play dr evil and in fact at the end of the movie it's revealed that dr evil has been voldemort the whole time so voldemort's also in this james bond movie i wonder if that's public domain by now we can sort of mix mixy matchy no because it's 1999 right i think it is and because of how mad everyone is at jk rowling exactly like who's gonna hear that trial in court you know what i mean no one wants her to win she's transphobic i'm gonna win yeah yeah i'm awesome and like progressive. Where's the lie? We do have to take a quick break and then we'll come back with another segment or something.

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Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs with your first purchase exclusively at drinkag1.com slash what's that? Again, that's drink ag1.com slash what's that check it out and we're back we're absolutely back monday afternoon for all of us uh trying to trying to come back from getting so angry because i i was really starting to grit my teeth there for a second uh but i think we should move on zach let's just say great idea even though i don't feel that way let's just say great idea thank you yeah i'll it. I'll take any praise even if it's false. I'll take it. Okay.

I wrote this segment in mind because I knew that Zach was coming on the show. With that in mind, I should say. And Zach, you're a writer for What We Do in the Shadows, Emmy-nominated show. You're kind of a mid-level writer now, right? Yeah. I mean, is that really interesting to like your listenership the like specifics of my title on the show story editor executive story editor do you do you really i get yeah i guess i was an executive story editor on the most recent season of the show

cool i people everyone knows what that means and really cares about it. It basically means that you're making a little bit more money. Yes. And as I've stated, money is important to me. So that is huge for me. I think that anybody who writes wants to get better. And the only way to do that is to show your writing to other people and get feedback. Okay. So I wrote a couple scenes. This was just like, sometimes you just need to like journal, sometimes you need to dream journal, sometimes you just need to get dialogue out

that's stuck in your head, and then figure out what it's for later on. So I was wondering if we could kind of, in fact, we could do a little table read of a couple scenes that I wrote. So I was wondering if we could kind of, in fact, we could do a little table read of a couple scenes that I wrote. And then, Zach, I could get your opinions on it, your notes, but also pull the room to see what kind of show or movie these scenes could go into. Does that make sense? I mean, not really, but I think I understand what's going to happen. You know? Great. That's all we need.

I don't think it makes sense, but I understand it. This is the first scene. Let's get, uh, Johnny, why don't you be Donnie? And Amir, you'll be untitled character.

That's never happened. My first note is that there's never such there's like give me like my occupation or like worker or guy but I've never seen untitled character Zach you work in television is that that would be a big big no no

in television it would just be confusing. And I'm just saying, Jeffrey, you're not up to a good start. That's fine. And maybe all I need for that, that's a quick fix, is just, okay, let's name him like Tyler or something. But let's just, let's read it and we'll get into it. I actually think that the name that I ended up putting in, it is a placeholder, will make sense after we read the scene. So, Amir, you're untitled character.

Johnny, you're Donnie. Let's, and then zach you can call action or whatever whatever you want to do all right sounds good we can bring in that mp3 file oh that's funny i want to read i want to read that movie right now yeah i know me too no different segment different segment yeah yeah but this is gonna be boring anyway so alright yeah here's okay and action the vaccine doesn't make your blood boil that's not what I said I said the fact that we have to even take the vaccine makes my blood

boil so you're anti vax I'm not anti sorry I'm anti covid this shit sucks sorry can we start over it's just like... Because it is so much about rhythm and flow because this one's supposed to be a comedy, so let's do it again.

This is just for a table read, but yeah. I thought I was the director. Also, I'm sorry to step on your toes, but I'd be the one sort of calling cut and giving actors notes. Run the room as you want. But like, if I hear anything,

even the littlest thing that buns me, I might have to stop the whole thing. Okay. Seeding it to you. All right. Here's Donnie. Here's Donnie. That's good.

Can we get that in the script? We can add it, but just like, it was my idea then. Not really. I said, here we go. I'll give an action okay i'll add us

at the top of the script okay yeah action here's donnie the vaccine doesn't make your blood boil that's not what i said i said the fact that we have to even take the vaccine makes my blood boil. So you're anti-vax? I'm anti-COVID. This shit sucks. Right, but I can't seem to nail down your actual opinion. Do you hate the virus because it's killed millions or... Yes, obviously. Okay, but

you also hate the vaccines. I hate... You're really not getting it. I hate the virus, obviously. And I hate... You're really not getting it. I hate the virus, obviously. And I hate the fact that we have to even take the vaccines. Okay, got it. So you're pro-vax. It's just a hassle to you.

I never said that. You're not pro-vax? No, I took the vaccine. I'm saying... Lower your voice, please. Sorry. Lower your voice. I'm saying lower your voice please sorry lower your voice I'm sorry

it's fine just yeah I'm saying I didn't say that exact sentence that you just said is all this isn't how conversations work and what do we think that's the end of the scene.

Check the gate. So, okay. Wow. First of all, I just want to say great job to both the actors. You brought a lot to the performance, maybe in a situation where not that much was on the page,

you know? Thank you. Thank you. I would have made them longer, but I didn't, you know, they're just ideas. Yeah.

I don't mean like not that much quantity wise I mean more quality wise and then I would say in terms of the script I think it's it's interesting it's definitely eye-catching and great and sort of gets you and gets you thinking a little bit it's a little confusing which I think is really the thing you don't want in a script whenever i'm writing my scripts i really want to be clear what's going on in it and this is not really hitting me on that dog i'm kind of being like randy jackson on american idol with my judging you're being like simon cowell but yeah yeah but he said dog he said dog he's being about it yeah simon cowell would never say anything like that so you're kind of being stupid yeah the opinion of it though is more

simon yeah just like let's echo yeah so basically all this to say uh dog uh this is not my tempo and uh you know but keep at it and i'm curious to see what other writing you'll do and maybe hone in on making it less confusing. Okay. So be clear. That's a good note. I thought this was, but, you know. You think it's clear when the character's name is Untitled Character? Even a name can put like some sort of backstory to a character.

That would help Amir a lot for sure. Or just whoever's going to act in this yeah i mean i could also say a bunch of stuff about the performances like the cadence of it the rhythm it was all off but like i wasn't directing the scene so like i'm trying to like hold back right you weren't directing the scene were you now another thing is that you said before the scene that it would become clear why the character was not named and i'm having right i would say it's not clear to me why that why that is it would become clear why the character was not named. And I would say it's not clear to me why that is. It's less clear at the end.

Yeah, I agree. No, because it's Untitled Character because Donnie can't understand Untitled Character's stance. You wrote another scene? You just sent us another scene. Oh, good. Yeah, the first scene was called SC11 i was scared that

there was gonna be more and uh this i mean you guys didn't like that one that's fine let's just move on to the next one uh for this one uh amir why don't you be any power and uh johnny why don't you be uh phase on phase on okay these are good names. The same way I was negative right at the top of the last one, I'm going to be positive. These are good names. That's like half the battle. Okay, thank you. That's good.

I'm already feeling more confident about this one. Are we allowed to improv or? Let's do one pass without, and then that'll be the only pass we do. Okay, cool. All right, and places, and action. Should we move houses pays on the last thing i said to you is that the last thing i

sorry let's take it from the top i'm giggling as i read it and this is like i'm trying not to get angry at everybody because i'm just so insecure but like yeah that's an instant zach where you could call cut and then go from the top like you're having your actors i say use everything that's how that's my school of directing it's like some of the greatest snl skits ever had a lot of breaking. That's live TV. Okay. Okay, touche. We figured out that your scripts, we don't know what they're for,

so they could be for some sort of live special. Oh, we also didn't, on the first scene, we didn't say what that could be a part of. I think it could be part of a CDC PSA. No way. Yeah, no. Absolutely. Confusing messaging. part of like a CDC PSA no way yeah no absolutely confusing messaging

alright let's get back to scene 2 and ready actors and action should should we move houses Faison the last thing I said to you was that I cheated on you with your boss

it just could be huge moving and all it meant nothing Faison, the last thing I said to you is that I cheated on you with your boss. It just could be huge, moving and all. It meant nothing, Faison. Really. It's just he's so much richer and buffer than you are. We could move to a place with a gym in the building. Yeah, good call. Are you hearing me, Faison? You don't seem hurt at all.

No. And don't get me wrong I'm devastated but I just can't stop thinking about a duplex and cut there's so much more to the scene did my mic cut out? I just want to give a note

we'll pick it up you guys are doing great Maybe you guys are doing really great And just sort of keep it up And keep having fun with it Alright so let's keep it up from where we cut And everybody ready? Yeah And action

Okay do you have anything you want to Express Faison? Honestly and I know this is going to be hard to hear But I truly think we need a place with a two-car garage Faison, I fucked your boss I fucked him, like, twice I mean, because we're going to probably have to get We're probably going to have to get an EV in a few years

And it'd be nice to be able to get an EV in a few years. And it'd be nice to be able to charge it in the... Oh, yeah. The garage. Honestly, Faison, this is part of why I think I felt compelled to cheat. You never listen. Well, you know what? I'm sorry, but I don't think that's a reason to cheat on your husband. I really don't.

And excuse me for not listening to you right now, but you're breaking my freaking heart. I'm sorry, Faison. Okay. And then we should say there's a cut. And you say there's a thing on that last line where. Yeah, I'm going to hit that. There's a beat, but it says where Andy Power, who's a mirror. There's no way I can do that. There's a beat, but it says beat, not of silence, of drums.

So how could I have done that? You could have just air drummed. You could have, I don't know, drumroll pleased it on your lap. My character, Andy Power, says Faison literally every line. Every line. But there's only two people. There's only two people in the scene you say it once at most to like i guess get across his name but there's no need are you

hearing me phase on do you have anything you press phase on these are all we all assume never calls never calls her any power once yeah and that was missing even when i was reading the character as the character i felt like that was missing that's what that's the issue that you had performance wise like you couldn't build the character because you're because fazon didn't say the words anti-power yeah because like i mean first off we're doing a table read uh through a screen which already is so impersonal uh if i had the name Annie Power come out my tongue, then I think that would have been a lot more personal for me. Okay.

Just as an actor, but like you're obviously trying to be a director or writer or whatever the fuck. So like, I know as a performer, how it's going to be supposed to feel. Yeah. And then,

so Zach, let's get your thoughts on the quantity and the quality and then let's all of us kind of figure out what scene this could what kind of thing this could be a scene in quantity wise I think there was a pretty good amount of it and then in terms of quality I'd say it was a bit better than the first one

which I think is you always want to be going up yeah how are you still unsure about what thing this could be a scene in like that's the first thing you figure out you wrote a scene and you still don't know what thing that scene could be in right that's such a backwards way to do it no because i have these ideas in my head so i have to get them out it's like how you know a songwriter will just like record three chords and they're like oh that's a progression i'll work with it later it's okay to kind of take stock when inspiration hits or moves you brightly yeah i guess i i would say

i don't i don't really get the sense this is part of a larger thing you know it feels kind of self-contained like maybe a sketch or something i mean i'd say for part of it it has is part of a larger thing you know it feels kind of self-contained like maybe a sketch or something i mean i'd say for part of it it has a bit of a game to it you know not to go all ucb on you guys but a game is sort of the kernel of a sketch it's the funny thing it's the engine and in this piece there's a simple game that i'll describe to you right now you just moved like the monster from It Follows. Sorry, the spirits of the UCB4 were sort of taking over me. Yeah, I re-listened to one of the episodes that you were on last

and you didn't remember Ian McRoberts or whatever the fuck his name is named. So don't say the spirit of the UCB four ran through your veins. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you're so close to people. You don't have to like know their name. It's,

it's more than names. It's a feeling of the four of them, the way they guide me every single day. Um, nevermind. I was going to compliment the game of this sketch. And because you were so rude, I'm not going to do it.

The scene is bad. And I think it would, could you could put it in a weird commercial maybe um i'm like a weird commercial but it's like it's like berries and cream skittles so like it ends up being a yes it's like random humor commercial for like tide and then at the end they're like oh sure could have used some tide some tie to help out this crazy situation we're in. Yeah. And that's actually good. I mean, commercials are good, good, good, solid money. Which you care about.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, everyone does. I'm just a normal guy. I can't believe there's a third one. Let's do this. This one's a little shorter, so why don't we give Amir a break from acting. So Amir, it's this one's a little shorter so why don't we give uh let's give amir a break from acting so amir you direct this one and then uh zach i'd love to see you be uh seinfeld and um

johnny you could be lawyer can i ask a question before we start of the director yeah um amir do you the character's name is seinfeld i don't know if it's meant to be similar to jerry seinfeld but do you want me to do an impression of jerry seinfeld or just sort of do my own take on it interesting let's do it as jerry because this is i'm just glancing over this is a short-ish scene it's's pretty short, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Sounds good. Yeah.

And it's hard because like, yeah. And action. All right. I think you have a case. I do too. But aren't you worried everyone's just going to laugh through my testimony? Because of my name. Your name.

Yeah. Fuck. I didn't think about that. And that's it yeah yeah so that's why it was a bad note to give because it's the whole point is that it's his last name his name is jerry seinfeld but he's not that jerry seinfeld so that's it i mean you didn't even mention that multiple people can talk like that like yeah maybe that would even complicate the case. The odds are so low that if he sounds exactly like him, like my impression does, it would be an interesting wrinkle, I think, to the situation here. And not that I'm an expert. You know what I mean?

Sure, I'm a writer, but like I'm not saying I know better than you, but this is what I would do personally. OK, I mean, I did ask for your specific advice, so I guess I'll make him borderline a seinfeld impersonator but not seinfeld but his name is jerry seinfeld yeah and then this is an example of when you would want to use the name but you don't use the last name at all and the last thing you said phase on every line and this is when you would want to use it i think you have a case seinfeld yeah i do mr seinfeld right okay yeah yeah but if you have a situation where the actor's performance is so clear and good it sounds so much like Jerry Seinfeld you don't really

need to say it two things to just rebut and respond to that is one in context and we'll again figure out what this could be a part of scene wise you would know that his name is Seinfeld or Jerry Seinfeld you know maybe

as a placeholder maybe if it was an episode of seinfeld or something yeah yeah no context again the entire point is that it's not jerry it's just tough let's move on shit this is tough man god writing could be so hard well i thought people forget that it's supposed to be fun and then like look at your guys's expressions like johnny's never been more angry or amir's checking his email and zach's like smiling but it's more of a grin of chagrin a what a pain smile a grin of chagrin it's already dark there it's 140 here in LA and it's straight up cold and dark in New York where you are already it actually was a nice day today um do we have any ideas of what that so you want that to be in an episode of Seinfeld and then the only note that you had was to add names

which was the it kind of goes back on the note that you gave for scene two here we go scene four i would just say in terms of quantity this one is lacking a bit it's so it's so short it's only three lines okay so we're doing quantitative analysis qualitative analysis and then what the scene should be a part of contextual uh suggestion you send another one just so i can mentally prepare yeah how many scenes did you really good question yeah five this is scene four my god okay cool all right this was supposed to be fun yeah um amir why don't you be russell and johnny you'll be lady and then Zach you're sort of in that director's chair again how did you switch us out for the one shortest scene to give Zach a break I think I'm a good actor one line you want to see me it's hard to direct it's a lot so I wanted to give him a break

a lot of people act and direct and write even auteurs you want to be a multi-hyphenate isn't that true like in hollywood it's important to be able to do all three and i guess in in terms of order writing is the hardest because you have to like make shit up from nothing acting is the second hardest because you just have to say the words in an interesting way and then again directing could be replaced by a mechanical bull of sorts that accidentally says action once every half an hour. So, that would be the easiest. Yeah.

Definitely. Yeah. So, I'd like to see the MP3 try writing and acting too, just to see if it has it in that. It could probably act. Also, like if the line is literally just that word action or you can record whatever, that makes it easy. Writing, there's no way because it's like literally like i have a blank page and i have to create an entire universe that's true but with some of the advances in science it's

difficult to say what will become possible in the next few years yeah agreed imagine the director dot mp3 getting an egot that would be pretty sick um a tony egot all of them no I just the Tony seems like the least likely or even a WEGOT which is a Webby and then the other four Webby seems like it'd be the easiest

that's good if it's turf yeah hell yeah alright let's get into this scene okay this is maybe my favorite okay

cool and action so are you italian i'm i'm korean oh nice how could you think i was italian listen i love to be up front with what I'm looking for, so I'm just going to put it out there. I want to date you. I really do. I think you're wonderful slash Italian. There it is again,

right? My family is from Busan. Milan? No. I haven't built this deep. Keep it all in. I'm not cutting. This is all in there.

I haven't felt this. I haven't felt this. Oh, mercy. I've never seen it before. Alright, I'm ready. I haven't felt this deep a connection in a while. What's funny? Huh? You gigg while. What's funny? Huh? You giggled.

What's funny? This is racist. At best. Oh, sorry. I was just thinking about you. At best. Oh, sorry, I was just thinking about you. Sorry, I was just thinking about you showing me around Sicily.

Sicily. I wouldn't be able to, and that's not funny. It's been a hard life for me, actually. Doesn't your dad own Jiffy Lube? That's true. Huh. You know, I actually feel kind of better now that you mentioned that. You forgot?

I'm going to go grab a couple cannolis you want in no thank you name's russell by the way i know this is our second date that's true later cut wow wow i mean i think you might have something here i mean it definitely is racist as oh yeah sort of all got to experience but i think if we're able to maybe work around that you definitely hit on something pretty interesting with this piece i disagree definitely because it's disagree this was supposed to be a hard drama. No way. Amir was laughing harder than I've seen him laugh in a while. So that's a failure.

There's no way this could be a drama. He's basically talking to an Asian woman, insisting that she's Italian, and then demands that she show him around Sicily, and then at a certain point says, we should go get cannolis. It's all really... It's pretty clearly a comedicic piece um okay if not hard drama like uh like a once style romance movie where there's maybe like moments of lightheartedness

but it's mostly about connection yeah i'd say this brings me to another one of my big writing tips for you and everyone listening which is you have to know yourself as a writer. So someone like Jeffrey, he might want to write a hard job. He might want to write a one style, beautiful romance, but that's not who he is. You know, he's, he's a funny guy and he's just going to write things that are more sort of comedic ish in tone. Um, and I think you have to know yourself just like every writer must must know themselves. Thank you. I don't think so. Great insight, Zach.

Yeah. Thank you, Johnny. I really appreciate that. And I know I know myself. I know that I'm a pretty damn good writing teacher. So, yeah. But in all seriousness, thank you. Yeah.

Not even 10 minutes ago, you said I'm not an expert. I'm not claiming to be an expert. But here we go. Scene five. Hey, hey, you know, I'm not an expert. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but here we go. Scene five. Hey, you know, you can be a great teacher and not an expert. Always be humble. Always be learning. Writing tip number eight.

Boom. All right. This is the last scene. Here we go. Let's do Amir, why don't you be Fanny? And Johnny, you can be Ikea manager. It's now completely dark out, right? Like night has befallen you?

Correct. 4.51 p.m. Okay, back to directing. No part for me. Maybe I can do a Hitchcock-style cameo in this one. Why don't you do that? Okay, I'm going to certify the perfect place to insert myself. style cameo in this one. Why don't you do that? Okay. I'm going to certify the perfect place to insert myself.

No need to tell us where that is. I trust that you can feel it out as the director. Yeah, I agree. Alright, and actors ready. Okay. Action. Alright. What seems to be the problem? You guys don't have the...

Yeah, what does seem to be the problem? So now you're at... Sorry, can I cut? Because now you're in the entire scene because it's like... What's up? No. Because now you're in the entire scene

because you basically asked the same question as the IKEA manager, which means you're going to be standing there for the whole scene. And it's weird if you don't say something, it's weird if you do. I don't even remember what happened, man was just so feeling the scene i went into a trance usually hitchcock just walks through it's kind of cool that you like he's not only just there but he's also sort of backing up the ikea manager yeah you're pushing the art forward in terms of

cameos i don't think so i really don't i'm like i'm trying to be like a sort of modern better hitchcock and so those are my the things i bring to the table all right this time this time i'll do more of a visual i'll try to do more of a visual cameo only for the video okay great great and action okay okay what seems to be the problem you guys don't have the sorry it's kind of distracting i can see like the top half of your head you're not fully out of frame you're bent down in a way that is hard to hold physically so you're kind of shaking make a visual appearance can you move the screen but not move yourself?

Yeah, I'll try that. All right, let's go to the top. All right, to the top. And action. What seems to be the problem? You guys don't have the Ektor sectional? Unfortunately, not in store at the moment. But we can order it to the store.

Why would I want you to order it to the store when I could just order it to my house? Would you like to do that? Why would I order it in store to my house when I could just do it online from my house? You definitely can

do that if you'd like. This sucks so much. Zach is starting to sort of... you definitely can do that if you'd like this sucks so Zach is starting to sort of is this on purpose you're peeking into the frame we don't know if the screen is like slipping that's the cameo

keep the scene going the cameo was a thumbs up this sucks so much balls say it with me waving yeah he's waving yeah he went back and he's sliding out okay but not even fully like you can still see the crown of his head there he is okay say it with me you want me to say this sucks so much balls right now. Okay. This sucks so much balls right now. No, not right now.

That's not what I said. You didn't say it the first time, but you added right now when I specifically asked you what you wanted me to say. Ikea sucks. Is there anything else I can help you with today? The littlest portion of zach's hair in the frame still in it yeah he's still in it it's just you didn't say it the first time but uh all right ikea sucks oh yeah hands the phone to the manager can you route me to the nearest

restoration hardware restoration you know that place is like 600 times more expensive than ikea right damn it today is sucking so much balls right now i swear to god can you please stop saying that this is a family family establishment sure you said it earlier but yeah sure okay and cameo. Cut. All right. I got to be honest that I wasn't paying much attention. I couldn't. I was too focused on my acting. Yeah, so the Hitchcock acting, you can't do both. Yeah, I guess not.

That's also the least amount a director would be in it. Maybe an expert learned something today, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, you're always learning, like you said. That's why it's so hard to be the multi-hyphenate. Like a lot of people can't do both, let alone at the same time. It's so hard. But no, I think the scene was really good.

The part I paid attention to, I thought all three performances were amazing. And so I just honestly hats off to all the actors. And this was an interesting piece, Jeffrey. Where was your head at when you were putting this one together? This one was just like, I was trying to get the Ektorp. And they didn't have it. And so it was just kind of tough.

Are you subletting? From life? It's a housing swap. Wait, you're ordering a couch there? Yeah, you're ordering... What? Yeah, their couch just wasn't cutting it for my ass so i had to kind of go get another sectional you're swapping apartments for a month or two

yeah they had a couch in their storage you bought a storage you got a storage unit just to put their couch away yeah because it wasn't cutting it what was wrong with their couch by the way you got an ikea couch it's not like you splurged what put their couch away? Yeah. Because it wasn't cutting it? What was wrong with their couch? By the way, you got an Ikea couch. It's not like you splurged. What was their couch? Their couch was like Pottery Barn teen or something. Pottery Barn adult. That's so fancy, so expensive.

Yeah. It just wasn't cutting it for my ass. Yeah, you said that. Where's the storage? It's in Bushwick. Why are we grilling me about this right now i don't think you have to like get a u-haul or something yeah well there's like a moving service here called uh what the hell is it called uh clutter yeah so that was a lot of places actually that service how long are you even there aren't you going back to cleveland soon for the holidays I'm going back to Cleveland on the

20th and then from there right before New Year's I go back to LA LA you're not even staying in New York no I was only here for a month and a half so how long total are you going to be using this couch that you got it'll have been because I moved into this apartment on Saturday

which is the 4th and then I leave for Cleveland on the 20th so it'll have been because I moved into this apartment on Saturday which is the 4th and then I leave for Cleveland on the 20th so it'll be 16 days that's your New York trip 2 weeks and 2 days and then by the way most of that time you'll have been in Cleveland

cause you went to Cleveland for Thanksgiving for about a week and then you're going for 11 more days more times in Cleveland than in New York. I never said that I was going to be here. I never promoted it as like I'm moving here permanently, so I don't know why you're upset. And then you're going to swap the couches back.

What I'll have to end up doing is do clutter or another moving equivalent. I saw something on the building out here that said two men in a truck or three men in a truck in different, cheaper prices. Take this sofa to the storage unit or somewhere that I could sell it or consign it and then get the other one

that they had, Pottery Barn Adult, and get it back up here. So much work for a fucking station. Because it wasn't cutting it. It wasn't cutting it with my ass. That means nothing. That obviously means nothing amir i love the dutch angle that's going on on your video speed right now speaking of hitchcock yeah yeah yeah as a director i love to see stuff like that that's how easy it is to do that too

yeah yeah um well i listen i i appreciate you guys taking the time for this table read i appreciate the notes that you guys gave especially zach and i do think that you know once i implement these it could make me a stronger writer or not we'll see uh and i'll probably get back to you maybe the next time you're on the show but uh either way thank you i can barely remember a single like concrete note I gave you so it's hard to think about really how it's gonna help you or no you said clarity you said be clear and make sure that people know what's happening even

in a scene okay you're right right you said name your characters instead of leaving placeholders like untitled I think next time here's another piece of advice is decide what what it is before you write it yeah if it's like a TV show or a pilot or movie, you know,

but no, you're definitely, you're off to a great start. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you,

you really are showing something really interesting as a writer. And that's what I want to hear. Cause I wasn't sure if I should be discouraged by this. Yeah. I mean, look, we all like arrive at like the realization that it's not going to work out at our own pace you know what i mean so i'm not trying to rush you there i'm i'm just saying but

you do want me to get there and you think that path whenever you whenever you get there it doesn't matter to me it matters that you feel okay not if ever it's awesome being on the podcast um plugs zach what do you have going on what do you want to point the people to floor is yours you can just follow me on twitter zach dunn type that in and you're going to find me. And enjoy the ride. It gets a little bit rocky at times, but you're going to be happy you're there. Buckle up. Nice. Yeah, and have

fun, everybody. Have a really good, happy holidays. You know, a lot of guests don't think about that kind of stuff, but I just hope that going through any hard times in their life that you get through it okay and i'm here for you it's a little it's kind of self-congratulatory to be like a lot of guests don't do this thing that i think is positive but i'm gonna do it well he's right i'm just i'm laying the groundwork sort of for for the what the world we're in and the way i differ from it. But I'm just trying to be nice.

So if that's a crime, lock me up. Oh, okay. That's funny, actually. Thanks. Johnny? I just want to congratulate Zach on such a nice little plug at the end there about wishing everyone a happy holidays. Really?

That was a really, really great thing. Really nice. And stuff like that inspires me to keep going and keep spreading kindness to everybody so really you're the biggest hero ever oh see thanks thank you for congratulating me in return no because it's this weird snake eating its own tail you're welcome you're welcome man it's all you yeah for real congrats on that thanks all right so in terms of plugs, you can follow me on Instagram at Johnny V J O H N N Y V I I Instagram. It's great. Is that it? Yeah,

that'll be it. I'm here. You were saying that you might join the metaverse soon yeah i'm not quite there yet so you can't follow me on the metaverse but we're all sort of trending slowly marching towards there living in a completely virtual reality but for now you can follow me on tiktok okay bloomer is the name of the game um yeah go 90 get bent hell yeah

F yes applause applause and you can follow me on twitter at Jeff Boyardy on instagram at Jeffrey James um and you can follow my writing at a sub stack that I'll

probably set up between now and when this episode comes out what? a sub stack? you're gonna do that? for real? maybe it's hard cause it's like I support it man no it has to be a constant practice you have to put you know

theoretical like notes and put them into practice you have to implement um and uh i want to walk morning pages morning pages morning pages and and warning pages you know sending people threatening notes here and there that's all right so exactly let me know where on you live and uh we'll figure it out okay that is that is my actual screen. All right, we need to end the podcast. Ha ha ha! That was a Hiddem Original.