The Highwire with Del Bigtree - A FAMILY AFFAIR

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

It’s a family affair this week, as Del welcomes his tribe to The HighWire stage, to unravel the mystery of how a one time Emmy award-winning Producer from CBS became ‘King of the Anti-Vaxxers,’ and the family life that shaped his future.Guests: Norma Bigtree Groverland, Jack Groverland, Syntysche Groverland, Rev. Shad Groverland#FamilyFirst #BigtreeFamilyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are out there in the world. How about we all step out onto the high wire? I want to, you know, just sort of thank all of you out there that are watching from all around the world. I think people writing in about last week's show where we are really at a point now where we're able to show you exactly what we were saying when COVID began, exactly what we were saying when the vaccine was released, and then you are seeing how your own government has been lying to you the whole time. media. It's an amazing thing, video cameras. We're all on record, and we're really happy with the way our show is aging throughout this entire radical and strange experience. When I got involved with this topic of vaccination when I made the document, then went on to create the high wire. One of the things I was saying to, you know, one of our big sponsors at the time, I said, you know, I want this conversation around vaccination to be a part in the leading conversation in the next presidential election. Well, sure enough, COVID would say in many ways that Donald Trump and Joe Biden election revolved a lot around disease issues and vaccinations and let the chips fall where they may, they have fallen.

But where are we at now? Now that we've seen at that point, we're about a vaccine and how great it would or would not be. Now we know where we stand. Where is America? Where is the world? I think that you, our audience, and, you know, with the help of us, here at the Highwire have done a brilliant job waking up the world. And saying says that more than an article that was just shared with me this morning.

And by the way, for my friends out there, I love that you still send me articles because you might assume we see everything, but this was sent to me by my good friend, Ben. How Some Parents Choms changed their politics in the parents. New York Times last week. Look at some of these quotes. They wave signs that read defeat the mandates and no vaccines. They chanted, protect our kids. kids, our choice. Most had never been to a political rally before, but after seeing their children

isolated early in the coronavirus pandemic, they despaired, they said on Facebook, they found other worried parents who sympathized with them. Nearly half of Americans opposed masking. Listen to that. Nearly half opposed masking and a similar share is against for school children. I've been telling you where 50% folks were becoming the majority, that's what the polls show. But what it obscured in those numbers is the intensity with which some parents have embraced these views. While they once described themselves as Republicans or Democrats, they now have to defendants who plan to vote based solely on vaccine policies. To my friends out there, that was our goal here on the High Wire mission accomplished.

Their emergence has confounded Republican and Democratic strategists who worried they were losing voters to take absolute positions on vaccines and masks. That's right, you had better do that because we have. here present and accounted for. Activists posted statistics about COVID vaccines in those Facebook groups. Often that information came from the vaccine adverse event report. Database maintained by the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration, which allows anyone to submit data.

The CDC has warned that that database cannot prove that a vaccine caused a problem. Yet in a September 2021 post in Ms. Snyder's Facebook group, parents pointed that they said showed thousands of vaccine-induced deaths. actually it's tens of thousands now. This is absolutely dangerous, one parent wrote. This hasn't been really tested and is not necessary. OMG. Natalia Mirikver 50.

A Democrat who prioritized environmental and food sustainability issues. Sam James 41 said he was a Democrat who worried about climate change. Sarah Levy 37 was an independent and believed in social justice causes. That was before the pandemic in 2020. Wept in and led the lockdown. Ms. Mirika Vev's two daughters, Violet Nine, and Clementine Five, climbed the walls of the family's Manhattan apartment, complaining of boredom and crying that they had missed their friends. Previously, a Democrat, Ms. Marzotti, said, elected a family down during the pandemic and planned to cast her ballot in November for candidates who were against vaccine mandates. If that is Republicans, so be it. If it is dependents, fine, she said.

I'm not looking at their party affiliation, but how they fall on this one. changed me as a person and as a voter. Well, there you have it. We are now, and I've said it, the New York Times, who has been against us, has attacked the highway mercilessly throughout this pandemic. I'll tell you what you don't see from them in this article. Quotes by Paul Offutt saying that the highwire has lied about the fact that there's no efficacy in this vaccine.

Why? Because there's no efficacy in this vaccine. This article is amazing. And you'll have the link to it if you're a part of our newsletter, which is a huge part of the highwire. All you have had to do, go down the page on thehighwire.com and sign up to our newsletter

because here we practice transparency. We call it the high wire protocol. Every single thing I talk about, every article I share, every single study that we point to will be in your hands. I am not going to tell you what to think. I'm trying to show you how to think

and where you find your information and we put it in your hands every week. Please take use of that incredible tool. But here we are. I mean, it's amazing. If you are still hiding in the shadows thinking this subject gets recognized what the New York Times is now telling you. That is the enemy to those that believe in medical freedom. They are saying we have lost 50% of the nation, not just Republicans, not just Democrats, not just environmentalists, not just go-nowners.

Everyone is a position on this issue and it's important one. So I want to celebrate this moment for anyone that thought that we could. could have no effect over this conversation that no one would understand the science. Maybe COVID in some strange way is the greatest the world because we are waking up and we're deciding it's time to stand up, to go out and march, to speak about the dangers of these vaccines, to protect our children and say more than ever and louder than ever before, my body, my choice, my choice. It's an incredibly exciting time to be alive. And as they're saying right now, as we're ramping up for the political climate here, the United States of America,

vaccines is on the ballot. And you better start asking those people you're thinking about voters. Republicans, whether they're independence, whether they're Democrats, how do you come down on vaccine mandates? Do you believe that a parent gets to make decisions for their child or our children, property of the United States of America? I think that this is the most important issue. And that's why we've been so diligent in making sure that every single fact we do.

deliver here on the high wire is accurate and science-based. Okay, I don't know if you can tell. I have some butterflies right now. I'm a little bit nervous about today. When I called this show the highwire, I always said, you know, the slogan would be death-defying news without a safety net. Well, today for me is going to be death-defying because actually right now I'm on our once annual with my family. They've all come to Texas to join me, to play on Lake Travis, to sit around and have debates and conversations. And normally I would take this week off, but I decided, you know what, we're all here. And when we sit around and talk, we all together, can you imagine if cameras were rolling on all the things we're talking about and the conversations we have? And let me

be clear. I do not come from a family of wallflowers. These are the most opinionated human beings you've ever met in your lives. And we don't always... You'd be shocked how little we agree on. But we do love each other. And I think in many ways, we represent families across this country and across the world.

So I thought, let me take this opportunity to go ahead and interview my family. So many of you ask questions, where do you come? The very first question I get from anybody that's interviewing me, which happens all the time,

is, you know, how did you get into this, Del? And I honestly, you know, I can reflect back to work. on the doctor's television show or making the film Vax, but where my instincts go is back to because I don't think I'm sitting here unless I was raised by parents that really took parenting seriously. They were unique and did it in a very different way, but their attention on what I was going to do with my life and what my brother and sister were going to do with their lives

has a great effect. And so because of that, I thought, let's interview my family. That's going to happen Today, I'm going to try and get a glass of water. I'm going to try and call my nerves as I load my family in here. So while we're doing that, here's a little flashback on many of the things that I've said about what gets me here. Many times I've reflected on my family. My understanding is that there's actually a drinking game out there about some of the things I repeat myself on a lot.

So have some fun with this. And coming up is Del Bigtree and his family, the most dangerous show. Many of you don't know where I started, so let me be clear. I was a CBS producer on the daytime talk show, The Doctors, the Doctors, the Doctors, the Doctors, celebrating the best that science had to offer for over six years. For six years, I've done. But due investigations into science and the medicine, I won an Emmy Award celebrating the best that medicine and science has to offer. I'm a fan of science where I won an Emmy Award.

An Emmy Award winning producer? I won an Emmy Award. Remember, I won an Emmy Award. My mom said, What are you doing working on a medical doc Joe? You've never been to a doctor in your life. This isn't what we believe in. And I was like, well, I know, but, you know,

actually it's a really unique opportunity. I'm doing stories that I think are showing more functional medicine and different... One of the highest rated producers. I made the documentary Vax, which sort of catapulted me out of my career at CBS. Vax from cover-up to catastrophe. I often reference myself as being a refugee from California.

Refugees from California where they have no rights. I'm a, you know, a refugee from California. Everyone that worked with me on the high wire luckily came and decided to move to Texas. And I have to say we all feel really good about that. A progressive liberal from Boulder, Colorado. A progressive liberal from Boulder Colorado. Boulder Colorado. Boulder Colorado. Boulder is very liberal.

Boulder is very liberal. I grew up a liberal. I'm all into, hey, we're all going to get along. I think about the 1960s, which were the stories I grew up with my parents. My parents marched in the 60s. My parents were 60s activists. They marched against the Vietnam War. Black, white, yellow, red. You know what I mean? Standing together. My parents marched for freedom in the 60s. That's what they believed in. I still grew up a liberal, progressive, environmentalist. I still considered myself. I still consider it as a liberal, progressive, environmentalist. an environmentalist in the old sense of the word I was an environmentalist.

I feel like I have to say right now to our audience, I am politically marooned. I now consider myself to be poised politically marooned. I don't politically marooned right now. I don't trust anybody. I'm politically marooned. Politically marooned.

Both these parties, I think, have lost her minds. I have been a card carrying Democrat my entire life. I keep that card next to my toilet paper in the bathroom should I... Why I find myself standing here on this microphone talking to you is because of my parents and the decisions that my parents made to not vaccinate me. I was not vaccinated as a child. I want to thank my mother who made the decision to not vaccinate me.

I was in third grade and on one particular day I walked out the door and I was wearing a t-shirt that I had made in art class. I came home. walked into the house and my mom saw us and she said, tell what happened to the shirt you were wearing. I said, oh, Craig said it looks stupid and he lives right next door to the school, so I just borrowed one of his shirts.

And for this look on my mom's face, I couldn't quite describe. And she sat me down, and she sat my sister down, and she said, I will never raise children that, care what other people think. My family, it made me think about a conversation I had my father growing up a lot. Amazing story, grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, and then changed his life and became a minister. I have a Native American background, right?

My mother's, you know, Mohawk, my grandfather left the reservation. That's with a big... My mom would say to me, you know, Ade, sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will never hurt you. I live by that, and I think I've put it to the test more than just about anyone. I know. So mom, thank you to my mother, my father, that made this incredible life. Remember to take those moments. I have to do that with myself to remind myself how beautiful my family is. They are part of this journey with me. I want to thank you guys for being brave. I couldn't do this

without my family. All right. Well, there was a little trip down memory lane and I'm glad I'm here, all the giggles and laughs over the drinking game, I guess, is going on in the booth over there. But it's my honor and pleasure to be joined now by my family. So to my right, my mom, Big Tree Groverland, my father, Jack Groverland, my sister, Santisha Groverland, Shad Groverland. I want to thank you for sharing this stage with me here. This is a beautiful and neat opportunity. Watch our family dinners with you preaching to the rest of the family.

Is that how it always goes? We could get into that. How much, you know, you know, when I was thinking about, like, when we, we always get together for, you know, it's been pretty much every year. We've missed a couple of years. When we were kids, wouldn't we, like, go camping for like a month? Yeah. You know, and so, like, on this trip, as usual, things go wrong. We, you know, ended up burying a four-wheeler.

And what I would describe as quicksand. I'm not sure who thought it was okay to drive across there. Anyone looking at this right? Would you drive your, you know. That guy digging right there, did it? He's an idiot. But I will say different than other Groverland vacations, no one was trapped underneath that formula.

So it wasn't quite as bad as it could have. I did just to start out, to break the ice, we've had these family vacations. What do you think is, it's like, we've had some death-defying moments. What do you think stands up as like maybe one of the most dangerous scenarios the whole family's been in

in one of these crazy vacations? With no food. The Raptor trip, we ran out of food. Yeah, that was, I think I developed peanut allergy, actually, from that wrapping. I think we all did. Did you too? I certainly did.

Yeah, I mean, legitimately. Like, suddenly we were out of, like, there was no food left. We had, I think, three jars of peanuts left on a river in the middle of nowhere and ate nothing but peanut butter to stay alive. I've been trying to remember, was that also the pre-soaked charcoal briquettes trip

that got into the bread, so they tasted like gasoline and peanut butter? How was it? trip. That was the other trip where we almost killed ourselves. Right. Yeah. No, you're really missing it. The really most dangerous situation we were ever in was when we went to Nevada. We stopped at gas station. The old couple said there's a great lake miles from here. Right. And we said, oh, let's go find it. We go there, we go swimming. We had that. It was like a, it was sort of like a, you know, one of those twilight zones. Strange little gas station that had like, you get that,

pancakes and they're making pancakes. Oh, we always have our family unions there. It's 117 degrees, I think, if I remember, in the VW bus we were driving down the road. Right. And she said it was Lake, which all we want to do was get to water. It was so hot. Right.

So hot. We had the Volkswagen van, no air conditioning. Right. Probably at that on heat on. So it's actually the heat. Isn't every VW? I think it's only just the heat. It's always on in the Volkswagen van.

Oh, there it is. There it is. There is. There is. That's the man. Oh my God, we got a photo of it. I remember, actually, when we were driving to this, it was so hot in the back, like we had the windows

open, and we were just getting convection cooked in the back, that we decided as the kids, shut the windows. It's 117 degrees outside, but it's 127 degrees while the wind is blowing to this. There's no road to get into this lake. Right. So we said, well, just go over the greenery and the cactus. It was literally like turn it mile mark or something or other.

We're driving down a four-wheel drive down in the middle of the desert. You should have said Turner Barlacher at your own wrist. Right. Because when we drove into this place to the just heated, overheated. Yeah. We're already in your bathing suits. Everybody. Angry heated.

Okay, like, you can't do this kind of heat. This is only, our family only goes on vacation to places that it's got to be at least 108 to 110. No. It's always August. It would be Texas. Utah, well, it was Utah, Nevada, Arizona, August, August, every year. year. One month in... It's really a tolerance test.

Like, endurance. Like, what can you endure? Right? We get the side of survival as a family vacation. It's like how much heat can we possibly handle. Without ever having air conditioning. All right. So we get to the lake. We're driving over this green array shrubs, you know, old trees. Because we want to get to this lake.

Everybody's dying. Stop the get out. And we see this section of rocks there. and it's got all these tiny skeletons over it. Little mouse skeletons. Mouth skeletons over it. Yeah. Boy, that's odd.

You know, we'll take a few of those with us when we leave. So the kids are out of the thing. They're in their bathing suits. There's reeds all. There is a lake there. There's a reeds, remember? I remember like reeds all around the lake. We sort of tronked through the reeds to find like a flat spot,

crush them down, put a blanket down. We're having a picnic, right? We're sitting there having a picnic. And we're about to say, like, let's go gather wood for the... Remember it? Zero common sense, zero intuition in that situation whatsoever, by the way. Yeah. Okay.

And so... And the dog, Gashawi, starts to growl. He's right at my back. And he's growling. So was he growling yet? He's just growling away and they'll look over. And the most ugliest rattlesnake you have ever seen right there. I shout to the kids.

Stop! Everybody. Stop where you are. We're about to step off into the reeds. And I remember, like, you start poking of a paddle or something. You start poking this. Rattlesnick, it's rattling. Out of the path that's slowly.

No, no, not yet. No, I remember, I remember. You, like, go after the one rattlesnake is like, and then we're like, oh, my God, there's a rattlesnake here, and then it's like, and then the whole place just lit up. We're surrounded by rattlesnakes. We're literally like in, like, a

rattlesnake valley. We were about to be the next skeletons on that line. And so that there's a little path the bus. Remember? Yeah. And he goes, get behind me.

Yeah. Or he's just holding the dog. And my dad is, you're running down the path and literally flipping snakes. Like, it's like a biblical scene. Nobody.

They're like, but they're like six inch round. They're like four inch round. Yeah. Rattler. This one. Look at one. Somehow we get all the way back to the van without anyone getting bit.

I think you flip 10, 11 sinks. We were 150 miles from any hospital. We would have been dead. Yeah. We'd already been hiking up and around that whole area. So before that, everyone happened before, we even thought. But there might be a creature out there that's taken over.

So this, so all to say that this vacation is going a little bit smoother than that. I think we're getting a little bit, a little bit smarter as we get older. Bringing our children's here. Our spouses are here. So, all right. I think one of the first questions, when people sort of, you know, tune in with me or, you know, and one of the things they're noticing right now is they're seeing your Kairons, you're all Groverlands and I'm a...

And so a lot of, you know, obviously, get attacked by a lot of trolls, a lot of haters are going to have a heyday with this show today, I'm sure. But just to be clear, I've seen people write articles, whether or not his name's actually Bigtree. So Big Tree comes from... My dad, Norman Bigtree. He was a Mohawk Indian. His father was part of Buffalo Bill Wild West Show, and that was the only way his father could have him as a son because he was in a government school so he could because they look so good to Europe when they can play Indian there.

So it looks like the United States did a good job with the Indians, but that wasn't truth, but they've got to ride horses and do bow and arrow. So the Wild Bill traveling side show would pick Indians up on the great-grandfather. father was in a, here he is, yeah, Philip Bigtree there. He was in basically a boarding school that you're put into, wasn't allowed to leave unless he had a special talent. His uncle grabbed him, right, because he could. Right. And then would run around and play Cowboys and Indians as a part of this parade. In England. In England. Well, they went to England, right? Now, I actually saw somebody, this is funny. Somebody took a long time writing out my entire family history that's trying to say that somehow I'm a Charlotte

they had tracked all the like somehow this Indian meets an English woman in England but I don't know what he was doing there and here it is here's the final piece for you out there you know who you are that has been spent you know months story for some

strange reason the part you missed is the Native American finds himself in England because he's in Buffalo Bill's traveling side show and Is the story true that... And my grandfather of taking care of the black bear. And this black bear

got loose and mauled this English woman. And my grandfather went to the hospital and just was by her bedside and married her. Right. States and they had like... The decent thing to do. Right. If you have a bear and it buys somebody,

you got to marry them. I've never heard that story. You never heard that story? I had like 10 children. And she was, and going back, she was a nurse. So I think she had a medical background. She came back and sort of ended up being like, you know, a medicine woman using both some of the herbal remedies and some of the Western things she had. And maybe that's sort of in my background, strangely.

I had married a Russian woman from an immigrant family that had come over on the boats. and produced me. Yeah, and your two sisters? Yes. And you guys... Big tree sisters, and we entertained on television in Syracuse, New York, all the time we were growing up. Yeah.

Yeah, so you were like performers and... Yeah, we had no normal life. We went to a regular school, but we would be on television when the kids would go home at lunchtime. Right. They'd see us, you know, and have a routine that we did and harmonies that we did. And then we come home.

home and the vice president was like really strict, you know, people really didn't like him. But he used to hold the bell until the taxi or my mom arrived in with us in the car. And they wouldn't start the second half of school until we arrived. It was just, it was really great guy. Yeah. But I did not like school. I was not, I did not have friends. And it might have been a lot to do.

dancing and but it also had because I was called squaw and I remember one time my dad took this guy and he just lifted them up and he said you never call my daughter squaw again well it meant the sexual parts of a woman I mean you know maybe people don't know that a name of squaw you know it was interesting I oh I think we talked about you know mom would always tell these stories about how she you know kids treated her poorly and she was sort of always been she always said because I was a performer and they were jealous of me. And I don't think I was, I think it was like 20 years old when you finally told the story about your father grabbing the kids saying, I said, Mom, it wasn't because you were a performer. It was because you were Native American. That was racism. Well, you know.

Syracuse at that time was very racist. I remember a few Native American full-blooded off the reservation, which they were on a doggen, and they would go to the school. and all of a sudden they're starting to put powder on their face, and the, and they just pulled them back to the reservation, said, we're doing schooling on the residence. That was the last time you saw the Indians in school,

and they only lived like 15 miles away, so it should have been. And it was called Onondaga Valley Academy, and they used the word on a doga. Right. And so Mohawk, Grandpa's Mohawk, your coordination. We are part of, our democracy,

came from the Hodeshoni. which is not in any of your history books. That's why I took my kids out of school because they were being lied to to be robots. And when you had that altercation, you're coming home. You are in all my... I'm talking about the T-shirt thing where I... I said, you are going to be your own thinking process.

You're going to make up your own ideas, and I'm going to give the true history. And I did that. You guys remember Custer State Park? Do you remember that? Last stand. Well, I think at the moment it was Custer State Park. With the slithering Indians.

Yeah, that's not my story. Well, I mean, but we were there. I was a story. When we talk about, like, people like how you're an activist and, you know, and I always say my mom's like the original activist, right? I remember just being like, oh, my God, here he goes mom again. But that one was classic. It's a certifiable.

He was not. He was an activist. Man, who was telling the story. We're at, so we're at Custer State Park. Where is that? South Dakota? And he kept saying slithering Indians. Slithering Indians. And Custer's last stand.

They were hiding and slithering out and killing the troops. Right. It's like there's a bad, the poor Custer, who had been murdering like so many Indians everywhere he could, but they finally win a battle and we're there. And Custin, all it is is how, you know, poor Custer got caught by surprise. At one time all the Native Americans actually came together.

And mom was like, we're sitting there. It was on the golf car. right, like the slithering Indians. They're just like looking at the leather tassels in his outfit slithering Indians and finally we're in the room and got us all there. I remember her going so crazy. Like this was probably the craziest

moment ever in out of people in the store with us. She's going so crazy that she's gone on the front and I remember dad like taking us by her shirts and just kind of walking us as if we don't even know her. She's just walking off. The graceful exit.

This is, this is. He's going to be arrested. He's going to be arrested. What were you saying? I have no idea. I was out of my mind. She was out of her mind. But we went back through you. I think it was something like Custer murdered every freaking Indian he ever met. The Native Americans could never get it together.

They were so busy fighting. They were being annihilated. They finally all come together one time. One time they all come to peace, come together to have one moment to defend themselves. They win that one battle. And this entire state park is called Cust. Costa State Park! Costa State Park!

The thing we ever won! They're dragging her out, and they passed this woman that's behind the stand where they have the brochures, and it's a Native American lady. And she said, as she's being dragged out, what are you doing here? And she said, well, I'm a crow. And then she said, oh, yeah, I'm a crow. They were on the side of Custer. The whole thing again.

The expertives are coming out. We went back years later, and they did not. I have that approach anymore. No, I think it got changed to wounded New State Parkers something like that. I think I made some changes there. A photograph of your mother, looking like an idiot. Somebody's got to do it, you know.

You got to stand up for your rights. You can't let the lies go on anymore. Well, so speaking of that, let's go back to the beginning. So, you know, where you come from and where, how did you guys meet? We met at a casting party in New York City. casting party they were casting a show two producers i knew that i was writing a show with and she was one of the people that's going to be audited so all the people inviting to the party were being auditioned while they were there there was a piano there was little kinds of opportunities you could

play an instrument and the name of the show was god created saturday night and uh she sat after everybody was she sat for herself on the couch and was looking down into a sangria that she had in her hand. And I said, oh, wow, this looks like a sad person. And I went over, said hello to her, because it's easy to pick up a sad person. All right, let's tell, honestly, it's always been mom's version of this story that we were raised. So let's hear mom's version of the story. This guy walks in and an inner guidance says to me, this is him. Now, I wasn't looking at a Broadway star. I'd been singing a, I'd been singing dancing my whole life. And I look at him, I go, this is him. He's, he's kind of white.

You know, he's not, I usually dated Italians or Native Americans. And it was like, it was, okay, so then I'm not even thinking about it. The whole gathering, he sits next to me, and the voice says to me, this is him. This is who you're going to marry. It was like, every girl in the place heard the same voice. But here's a little bit of it. thing as kids growing up mom my understanding she always said when i saw your dad it said this is him time stopped i realize you know and she would always say i would say him the guy with like the curly shoes and the niru shirt max shirt wasn't that it something like that it looked more like buffalo bill

than the inatins you know right you did right so but and there was time stop and i think honestly is like growing up i felt like every time i was dating someone time stopped Like, it created the time stopping was somehow. Or if time didn't stop, it wasn't the right person. Right. Yeah. Time didn't stop. I guess this person's a good.

But this is a key to Dell's essence, his essential soul. Oh, no. When he was four years old, and we were in that motel, a motel for those people. And he was sitting in a little wicker chair staring out the A-frame window. And right outside the window is a beautiful little play yard with his three-wheeler and everything's, out there and I walk in and I say, Dale, outside playing.

And this is what he does. He goes, because I'm sitting here, which is the element of truth. A stick lip of truth. I just looked at myself and was like, I'm not outside because I'm sitting right here. There it is.

Like maybe the Buddha reincarnated right there went missed up in Maine in the middle nowhere. Either Buddha or very simply minded. Not a lot. thought going on. When we met, very soon we started dating, we got connected

into the spiritual past. Our whole lives changed with somebody handing us a book about Edgar Casey and another book about the Maharishi. Even though we didn't do the Maharishi, we went and found the ARE where they did meditation every Wednesday

and we would go and then we do dream interpretation. on Saturday, and we conceived you during the spell. When we were in a search for God group, young people, there were partners, they were married or had partners. We all kind of conceived about the same time, and it was like a holy experience.

So we all thought we were bringing in the Buddha or some holy. That's what our objective was. Now we're there for God. And you came, and it was, That was the Association for Research and Enlightenment, which is the Edgar Casey Foundation. And he's the most documented in the psyche, perhaps, that ever lived. But that's how we got into natural healing.

He had all these remedies that you would make you strong to be able to not acquire any kind of sickness. So when any of our children got ill, we did something. But we did these remedies and they always worked. You know, as we're talking about the ARE, I want to take the opportunity to say that. My sister, our sister, Debbie, was not able to make it out on this family. Works at the ARE in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

And so she couldn't make it. We love you, Debbie. Wish you were here. Love you. But just a great moment to put that out there. And a huge part for those of you that have doing this work, Debbie's been really, you know, working with me and out there on this mission of vaccines and health freedom.

So love you very much, Debbie. All right. So back to the A.R.E. Edgar Casey. I felt like, I mean, I know when I was doing things like trying to test my psychic ability, holding cards with numbers, colors, like Ghostbusters. Things like that. Like Ghostbusters.

Right. No, you get electrocuted me every time I got it wrong. It was really, no, the electrocution bar. Did they do that with you? Yeah. Did you? I don't know. I think they gave up by me.

Did they give up after we flailed so hard, they just said, forget it. It's lost cause. Kids are duds. The Rife machine is a documented. It heals people. Yeah. We do cash royal pack. Wrong.

We need to do a cash royal pack. We have light therapy. There's a whole bunch of knowledge about that, that there's a healing with each color that comes from the rainbow. But it works with just a gel. You can buy the theatrical different gel colors that you do one of the one color or you can put some together

and create the exact healing. There are so many healing remedies out there that are used by many, many nature paths and healers. But for some reason they can't make money to buy these units. You have them for the rest of your life and you don't have to pay the man

anything. And so they don't bring them into their practice. They work. It really comes down to intuition. You've got to use your own intuition when dealing with any or infirmity in the physical body. So, you know, you'll be led this way or that way. But even when you go to a doctor, you still have to use your intuition. What he's prescribing for you, if it sounds from within you that it might be something in determining and healing, then that's what you'll go for.

But, you know, and doctors, there are a lot of great doctors out there. but you have to, you know, you have to add your own intuition to see where they're going and how it's going to work with your business. We work with all this with the kids growing up. Yeah, and I think that, I mean, I'll say this, that, you know, on the show, the high wire, you know, I stick to really science-based, evidence-based medicine. I don't get a lot into vitamins unless there's a doctor talking about it. And people ask me, you know, what, you know, what do I recommend? I don't recommend things to people.

I can say only live the way I live. I think I live more radically than I talked about on the show. I think it was raised even more radically than that. I mean, growing up, there was definitely no doctors. We never went to a doctor. On a very rare occasion, a chiropractor, I meant if I really wiped out skiing hard or something. And then even more rare than that,

if you were really just, there was something couldn't be figured out, maybe a homeopath. It was just mind over. matter, you create the illness with your mind. Remember, if there was like someone saying the word cancer in a commercial on the TV, you would run and dive and shut the TV off and say you didn't hear that. Don't ever embrace that word. Don't let that in your mind. Don't say cancel, cancel. Don't ever use that word in your mind's eye. Don't ever like focus on that. And I always have my mom's voice. Whenever I get scared, there's some physical thing in our body, we just go cancel,

cancer cancel. We just, we recognize that the body is perfect. It's a perfect is how to come back to its fullness. And then you go into the herbs and you follow your intuition. You go to health food stores. You find the right herbalist at your local health food store and you say this is what's going on. And we have all had perfect health our entire life. We've been extremely, extremely blessed. Well, I would say, but there's been moments. Like I remember the time I was playing soccer. I had jumped to the air. The ball went under my foot and I rolled over so bad that like the pain shot my ankle up to my knee. I'm pretty sure I fractured something.

And someone came home. I'll never forget this. Come down the stairs, you know, to the front door. I'm trying to open it. Mom opens the door and says like, what are you doing? I was like, oh, I really messed up my ankle. It's totally swollen. And she rifts the crutches out of my hands, like throws them into the front yard and says,

heal yourself. And that was it. Like there was no... We did hot and cold. Let's see. Yeah, you were doing hot and cold. before anyone really thought of ice and then you do coal and then cash oil packs i mean it's like you isn't it you don't treat them but you do a much higher evolved entity than you possibly think and if you

just tone into turn into the guidance and you do want to develop that through meditation that's one thing once we got into these we meditated every day and these kids were we meditated every day and these kids all brought up meditating. You connect to that silence. You just, you have an affirmation and you just go into that silence and you get into a higher conscience. It's just too much entertaining the senses on the planet. Just sense and senses and you're just so vulnerable to illness.

When do you remember learning to meditate? How old were you when that? Ever since we were definitely. Humb school, probably about six. I mean, I think we're always doing it. What was the hike where we lost in Tisha? Yeah, Grand Gulch. That was where you got French Kisp, like a showler,

when we were all oaming in that cave. Do you remember? Yeah. We're all sitting there. Like, I physically got lost on a hike for realties. We literally lost our sister in a hike out of a canyon. I was all the way up ahead. It was Chaco Canyon.

Your dog's name is Chaco, wasn't it? It was Grand Gulch. Grand Goltz. That's right. I went ahead and I guess you had followed me. You lost me. I didn't realize that. I was looking at an older brother to get me.

You guys caught up to me or caught me and they like sat tissue with you. I was like, I never saw her. So somewhere back in the canyon she'd been lost. I mean, it was pretty. I have an incredible sense of direction now. I mean, after you get lost for hours on hours. And honestly, the rule was we all had whistles that we would wear when we were on these big hikes. and I would

no response and when the end of the Titanic movie happened and the girls like whistling on that I mean I had like PTSD beyond because I had that experience in that canyon by myself and I was what seven, eight? Yeah. And I was always told to stay where you are.

Just sit. It wouldn't be like a dark in an hour because we always were outdoorsy. She's probably what? What are you? 11? 12? I don't know.

I don't felt young. Nine. I don't know how old I was. Something like that. Maybe a little younger? I don't know. I didn't sit where I was. My intuition said, get the hell out of here.

I just... Rough idea of, like, where the road was. It was miles away. You got up out of the kid. But what I ended up doing is I was walking along there. So I went on and on and on and on so nobody could find me. And finally, I peeked out onto a road when it was finally dark. And I hitchhiked and a cowboy picker.

I knew that where a car was parked had a big flagpole. I said there's a flagpole where my family's car is parked. and he drove and drove and drove and drove and i thought how am i so far from the spot and when we got there i have never felt more loved by these people that lost me in the wood the response was awesome finally i would love me as much as dull i think it's clear i would not ever describe mom and dead as helicopter parents so we know we're clear on that so i think that was one of my earliest memories of meditating because we climbed up to this cave and we all sat and we chanted ohm together but the family dog was sitting right against to dad and we got our eyes

closed and we're going ohm we're doing the whole thing and then we just hear dad go oh the dog and just swung around and just licked right down dad's throat with a full deep throat French kiss you've got to be careful when you're meditating around your dog but we're talking about natural health and that's people come to me and they'll say you'd use for this or should we do this. You know, always caution that we have a lifetime of consciousness we've built that supports the natural health that we do. And it's not something you just go, oh, here, use this remedy, go ahead,

that's going to fix your problem. A lot of the time people go, oh, that didn't work. System has been trained in a different direction. We've been trained our entire lives in a certain direction that our mind does, in fact, have the power to heal our body, and that Mother Earth did give us the things we need to heal our body, and that's all we need. But to hand that to a person that's been trained their entire life in a different

is not necessarily, it doesn't exist in their reality at that point in time. You have to then retrain your mind to get back into the lane of, I do have this power, Mother Earth is here to help me with this, but that takes time. So the idea, like you're saying, you can't just say, yeah, this is what you do, you go, facilitate what you do, but I wouldn't stop seeing your doctor and whatever they're recommending until you've done that process to reach you in your consciousness into this lane of natural health and self-healing.

Your actual divine power exists in everyone. Made in the consciousness of God. Everyone has that power, that essential nature, which they call the true self or the soul's self. Everyone has that. And that's what you have to align with. You have to practice, spiritual practice, awakening that part of you so that that's your intuition.

That's what speaks to you in a whisper letting you know this is going to work for your body but this is not going to work for your body this is a good doctor right here what you need to do for your physical health but this doctor over here is missing it he doesn't understand what it is you understand from within you have to check in as a matter of fact it comes down to everything you're ever teaching here on the hospital people have to eventually learn to check in and find out for themselves what feels right to me. You can't go with authority figures.

So many people have grown up with the whole idea. Authority figures know more than you do about what you have to do is say, maybe there's something I can learn from this and check in and say, does this feel right to me? And when you come down to vaccines and start to look at the results of what has taken place with the vaccine program, you if you're looking and listening and And checking in, something's going to say to you, this is not working. This is not the way.

And what you're doing is the most amazing thing in the world. This is what you're actually helping people. The fact that there is something within them that is so powerful and so honest and so true, it will guide them in every difficult situation they have to make. Every decision will be guided. But I think that what Shad is saying, too, to have so much fear by not getting vaccinated, though, you're going to attract yourself the worst COVID experience of your life.

You know what I mean? You have to be in a place or you're in a state of wholeness and understand the power of this body to understand that you can actually not get COVID- vote vaccinated and you can educate yourself that you could actually be hurting yourself more than hindering yourself. But if you believe in the scientists and you believe in actually more of the CDC, right?

You have to believe in what your decision is. So you don't want to not do something if you're going to do it and just do it because other people to do. You got to do it because it comes from your soul. Let's talk about this issue of vaccination since we're right here. You know, given how you sort of described yourselves, you know, early on, you're doing this work with education. It's these healing remedies. But you still brought vaccinations, right? That was going to happen.

No. Well, I mean, I thought you took me. You took me in the day I was supposed to get vaccinations. I remember the story and there was a nurse there, you know. getting screaming at the parent ahead of us. Do you remember this? No. It's happening to a parent that was ahead of her,

but she was there for getting a checkup on something that she had done. I had nothing to do with vaccination. Okay. So you just always said, I'm not going to vaccinate. Yeah. No, I wasn't. Was it, was it, or did it just not make sense? Or did it come from how you were raised?

He came from Edgar case of material. Yeah. That, uh, he does, he really spoke. about that. That is really detrimental to your body to do that. Now you've got a lot of vaccinations as a kid. You can't eat a whole. Nobody's talking on a television about right now. You really can't be into desserts. You have to be eating healthy food. You can't do junk food. You've got to take the time and do real vegetables and just simmer them. You don't have to like you've got to understand a little bit about cooking. God gave you the most incredible food.

But if you're not going to do that, then I guess you want to get vaccinated. You can't do desserts. But, I mean, you had a personal experience as a child, right? Oh. Well, my mom, I didn't, we didn't have vaccinations then, but I as a child was taken to the doctor at the first sign of anything. And I was given streptomycin. and I guess it was, my mom was afraid to do the Russian heritage, which had great food, and naturally she didn't cook any of that.

She just wanted to be American. And my dad, she wasn't interested in learning any of the native way. And he just, in the native way, the woman is worshipped. You will not find abuse on reservations that are practicing their beginning way. Because the woman brings the babies, the baby's thief, the new life. So they're so honored. And, but she didn't really, he didn't pursue doing the native food with her. So we did American food, which was, you know, not her fault, but it was white fred and bologna and whatever.

So she would take me to this doctor and he would give me a penicillin and whatever. And I seemed like I was living there. And then I was in my teens and one day I was, I left the classroom and I would, raised my hand, this bathroom, and I would pass out. I never knew how long I was there, nobody ever found me, but in that passing out, the pain that was so enormous in my stomach, it must have been such a wreck my intestines,

I'd wake up in the paper after the class. And so one day, I went in there, and I probably was 13 or 14. I woke up, looked in the mirror, and I said, I will never, ever tell my mom, I don't. feel good ever again and I didn't and I started about food and natural remedies and it was just I came into my body I knew my destiny had just come in and I was claiming it just like you came in I know what you came in I know when you came in it's just you got to keep that that can happen but you can't get all the programming from the lies

it's so much lies when you're raising your kids and the school system is so much you know They came and give you that the Native Americans gave democracy to this country. We already covered that. I know. Biggest lie ever. You know, all right. So when we're on this issue, and I want to, let me make this caveat as we're getting into sort of more of my wheelhouse. Everything on this show that I say is my own.

My family does not necessarily share. Is on these conversations. This, if you're some troll or hater out there, this conversation is about how we're raised, not necessarily on the work that you guys do. I know that there's people that see these things differently that, you know, are affected by the work that you do. So this shouldn't really sort of that. But growing up, not being vaccine,

when I say that to people, and I wasn't, when I first came out with Vax, that wasn't something I shared right away. The newspapers were writing how I was an ex-doctor's producer. As I've said many times, you would call and say, what are you doing working on a medical doctor in your life? I felt there was something happened in my life.

I was being guided. They didn't know where it's clear to me now that all of this was sort of in the cards. But was it weird? I mean, I knew that we were, I always say that the vaccine was like a primary meridian, but it would come up like when we got done homeschooling. And, you know, when I think when I was going back in the 10th grade, trying to get into that high school, it was a real sticking matter. Remember the principal saying to you, we have a vaccine required. And then what did you say to him? No, you're not going to get vaccinated.

Right. And I think you, and you also mentioned, wait a minute, if all your kids are vaccinated. I said, I keep you home. If there was any kind of thing going on in the school, I'll home. Right. That's all I'll do. And I remember you making the point to him as I was standing there. Look, if all your kids are vaccinated and vaccines work, what risk is my child inside of this?

Right. Which was an argument that worked for long. Did you guys have any, did you ever run into that conversation as you were growing I can't say it got lighter because it's obviously gotten more intense, but... We dealt with every stage of school. It was junior high. As soon as we entered the school system, she was, I mean, she was dealing with me with college. I was trying to get a dorm room in college and they were saying he can't come on site.

Vaccinated, she's got to go through the same process over and over again. I remember in junior high, it wasn't just vaccination, it was the whole natural health thing. I mean, when she would tell us, it's like, all right, if they're going to try to pull you in for an eye screening, if they're going to do that height and wait thing. If they're going to do you, let me know beforehand. And it was even sex education. She's like, the way they're going to teach it to you is not the way

you need to learn it. You're going to tell me when that class is coming up. And so I adopt that of sex education. She had to come to do it. The whole thing was this school about consciousness. And so I don't want you going in. I'm saying, oh, this eye is a little bit that or the other thing when they do their eye exam because that's just consciousness

and we work through that. And we have gone through that through life. You see something. And the eye starts to get weird and you go, all right, I'm just going to pray through that, I'm going to work through that, I'm going to meditate through that. But had you gone to the eye doctor at that point, then all of a sudden you have glasses, and it's going to perpetuate the problem, make it worse. But yeah, every step of the way was, and remember, she would coach us, and I'll assume you guys got this.

They would say at the family dinners, we're not raising you the way the rest of the world. This is not necessarily going to be easy for you guys, but you'd be giving tools that nobody else has. And so you're going to have to time stand up into uncomfortable situations. and recognize we don't eat the food other people eat, we don't go to the doctors the way other people do, put you on the outskirts of society. But at some point you're going to recognize why we did all this. As you become an adult and you look back, you go, oh my gosh, like what they had to do to keep pushing, keep pushing, keep us in this world

where you can get in your life. You're not just handing it away to everyone is not easy. And then we have kids, you're like trying to do this with our own kids. you realize this is so hard in this world that's constantly trying to get their fingers in the pot of how to raise your kids and tell them this is the way it is trying to create a healthy future for them where they have power and they haven't handed it to all of you but you're constantly trying to tell them that they have no power and that they have to give it to you and it's just yeah it's every step of the way save the race. If anything, every re-went down, your blood. Let's be careful how this comes across. I'm sorry. You know, what he was saying, as a child, the not being vaccinated thing didn't seem like it was a big, a huge issue with whatever sports that didn't seem to affect me as a dancer and things like that. But a child, which I had the first grandchild of this family, I did have the fundamentals in me,

and I had my baby at home. My mom didn't even have her children at home. I had him at home, so I didn't even have to face the fact that they were going to secretly do something to that baby or touch it or do anything, put that garbage in the baby. I had all of my children at home, and it started right there. So I just didn't even have to face saying, no, no, no, don't touch that baby because it was a different time. And I knew they were pushier now in my time. And it's gotten worse because I had a child at 22 and then I had years later, two more children. And oh my gosh, is it like, stay away, staving them off of your children. children, you know, and so that's where I've really noticed, like the upbringing.

I had the fundamentals. I had the foundation to have the voice that I needed, but I just had it at home so nobody could possibly mess with that first hours, first minutes of trying to drug this beautiful, powerful little being, you know, when I was learning my, you know, that moment in motherhood. I forget that you were the first one to give birth at home. my wife Lee had, you know, our children at home. And frankly, I wasn't sure that I was down with that. I was like, I definitely knew I didn't want to vaccinate them.

But when my wife said, you know, I wanted to have the babies at home, I said, really? Wow. But Lee was on the phone when I gave birth to my oldest daughter. So that probably, I'm sure she already had her own reasons, but she got to hear that I didn't die. By the way, let's take this moment. Shout out to all of our family that are watching this sitting in the booth, all of our wives. husbands, the children are all here watching, you know, instead of on the lake. So we love them dearly. And it's, it's been an amazing experience to sort of, to grow up, you know, through our

family and, you know, pass some of this to our children. Let's let's get into, I mean, I think we've established that it was a fairly radical natural health life. And, you know, because it really was almost no interventions. I would do anything. In fact there's been times where you've caught us like putting lavender

and things and everything and you're like wait you don't need anything right like you just you know there's just levels to it but let's talk sort of maybe get into some of the places now the world is a very different place and you know I would say I grew up you're a minister

a unity minister. I grew up I think what are we 40 46 years in the ministry. So we were PKs. I think in some ways we lived up to that. At least I know a statistician I really did. You know, that whole PK thing where you're like the wildest kid. I was better at hiding it than you guys were.

They were saying you were the Buddha. He was actually the Buddha. He was precocious as all get out. And so it's like stereotypical preachers kids for sure. And we loved it. We had so much fun. Yeah. I think I always say that your only way to rebel because we were so out of control was to actually just get straight age and Rockins. Because the only way you were going to get any attention because we all the oxygen out of the problem child.

I just saw him and you guys more than not. I was like, I can't. I can't do this too. Didn't you ask him? Please. I can't. I can't do it anymore. I think I did.

But he just had a little special thing with him. Yeah. We all knew it. I mean, I think when it comes to. You know, well, let's just, so to finish it up, you're a unity minister. We grew up all running that church. It was a family business. You were running, you know, the choir, the music minister.

Early on, like, you were always talking about what a great life it was, but I just felt like I wanted to be more and sort of your background. Like I was doing the theater and writing and I wanted to go to Hollywood. Oh, you had the right word. Writing. Oh, yeah, there you go. Let's not forget your writer. This is my novel. Yeah, this is the latest novel.

Lift it up higher. Lift it up higher. Everybody, Dad's a writer. If you want to get into this crazy mind of his, this book is, it will not be what you expect coming from a Unity minister. It is available. All the happen is. But you have never read this book.

I can assure you, which has always been your goal when you're teaching me writing. You always said, I don't want to know what's going to happen on the next page. Don't telegraph it to me. That book. We'll do it for you. Yeah, there you go. So if you want to check out, there it is. about true life.

Okay. If you read that novel. All right, there it is. There's that novel. And it is, I, you know, a lot of my creativity, I always say that when other kids were getting computer classes, because you were both from New York in theater. Let's get into this for a second. There would be these arguments in the family.

Remember this? Like, who made it further in the business, right? Dad would argue that he was friends with Tommy Toon, you know, one of the greatest Broadway dances of all times. And mom would say, I did shit. shows with Bernadette Peters. I, you know, Barry Manilow was there is, you know, she dames at sea, you know, Bernard Peters is in Dames and to Sea with you, correct?

Yeah. So the famous Bernard Peters and, and I didn't know this. Yeah, here's a great story. I'm working at the doctors and I'm told we have a special guest today. Barry Manilow is coming in. And I was like, what? Like Barry Manil is going to be on the show. And I was like, my mom, my whole life said she knows Barry Manil.

That Barry Manelow was like, Pearl. Her audition pianist. You're like, you know, there's some tall tales in our family. But you're quite totally sure. But there's not. They always come out true, though. Like, even if there's always there. Let me see, let me see if this is true.

So, and I swear, we've had all sorts of stars on the doctors television show. But Barry Manilow had like four guards around the door. Rumen, I'm one of the, you know, I'm like a lower level producer on this show. And I sort of wait till they're distracted and I just walk right into the room. And I'm like, excuse me. Mr. Manilow, my name's Del Bigtree. I'm a producer on this show. You know,

he's like, at this point, people are like grabbing me. I was like, my mom's Norma Bigtree. He's like, what? Whoa, stop. What? He's like, wait, what? Did you say? I said, my mother's Norma Bigtree.

She said, he's like, Norma Bigtree. He calls his manager over his Norma Bigtree's son. I mean, this has to be 35 years since you've seen him, you know, or something. And calls him over. I got to set up this incredible moment where I got tickets to see him. I said, I'd really love tickets. She'd love to see you.

And saw his show in Vegas. And then went backstage. And I mean, there he is. There's the photo we took. And honestly, folks, I mean, this is totally off topic. But it was an amazing moment because my mom is sitting in the audience. Barry Manilow charted out a piece of music I used in auditions, but he never signed it, and I brought it with me. Do you think I could get

him to sign this? Like, I'm sure you can do whatever you want. And then, you know, when they have the line line up to like people that are going to go, no pens, no autographs, all this. He's like, oh, man, I say, just stick it through. So we get in there. There's this amazing moment. It's like time never existed. You're like shooting, you know, talk about where you went, what your lives were. And then mom looks at Barry Manlo. She says, a piece of music that you wrote out for me and you never signed it. And he said, oh, what is it? Running Wild? Like, 35 years later, the guy

is like yesterday, oh, yeah, the song I wrote for you yesterday, right? I mean, like, it's like, there it was. Right. We were actually working on an act together before he went with Bet Miller. But I had always been with my sisters. And when it came to working on an act, I had done shows, but I had no idea who I was.

And so I just couldn't figure out what, what? I bet Midler got with him. And then they sort of made each other famous. She was incredible. It was not me. She was amazing. So I forget where we were going when we got off on.

Oh, so it comes around. So your minister, your music, the church, we grew up singing and performing. In fact, I would say that the stress, like, you know, all of this is, I think we're all now find ourselves in one way or another putting on a show all the time. But for me growing up, I got like, I got an aversion to spontaneity because there are not more spontaneous people than our mother and father. And get me, am I wrong? We would wake up. It would be like 6.30 in the morning on Sunday.

Mom would come in. We don't have the special music. The guest artist dropped out. I need you guys to sing a song, Del, grab your guitar or Satisha grab your flute. We're going to sing. I don't think we danced. But she wasn't passionate attempt to ask us. But we'd have to, like, whip it.

It was so nerve-wracking. So nerve-wracking. So nerve-wracking. And so hard. Yeah. And stressful. The one time you guys went up on the stage to sing. The three of you had the song.

It was one of those last-minute things. Yeah. And Shad stood in the rest and didn't sing a word. Yeah, that's it. That's my protest. And he never performed again. Two of them were singing away. He dragged me up here.

This kid of the family. Last one. You go at some point you've got to stand your ground. Do this. He did the lead in hair. Yeah, I know. I ended up getting into theater. I did all that.

I've talked about the show, played George Berger and the Broadway touring company of hair. So yes, I have this theater background. He worked with him twice. You did the show in Boulder, and then you didn't even know, remember you from that show when you did. I did it for the original writer, Jim Rado.

He was at both of those experiences. Yeah, I have a history there. You had auditioned for hair back in New York, back in the day, but I don't want to get that. We could go way down that road. I think there was this idea. I remember early on because I wasn't paying much attention to you guys. I was fairly self-absorred.

But dad would talk about being a minister. I was like, no, I want to go on. I want a bigger audio. I want to do something bigger. But YouTube ended up being ministers yourselves. He's head of the UNA movement. Yeah, and you're coming up on, you know, taking over the church we all grew up in, which is amazing. So we're all public speakers, which I think is...

The reason I brought up, like, having to perform, I genuinely, after that experience, when I went off to do theater and things, I never took an improv class. I was never going to do improv. There is nothing about being spontaneous that was ever part of... wanted it rehearsed. I had to have it locked down. I want weeks, if not months of rehearsal, because of that. It was so panicking as a kid to have to like step out there and feel unprepared. Right. Until I got into this issue, watching dad, like, give his talks. You would just, I would look at your notes and it would be like a one card to be a one and then like a sentence

and then a two. And I was like, impossible to decipher or read. You look at dad's notes after your talk. You're like, I know. he can't even read that just an impression he gets on something and and i was like how do you speak like this because i mean you were you know honestly an incredible and still are a dynamic speaker um but it never one of the things was it never happened to asking you know why don't you write your talk on wednesday you get up at like three or four in the morning every sunday and so what about inspiration you know speaking because i think we know this story but i think it have certainly affected me and the work that I do now.

Inspiration. I think the human race will evolve to the place where we recognize that we were all truly made in the image of a divine intelligence that resides within us. It's called the true self or the soul self. And when we start to align our thinking, our conscious thinking, through spiritual, spiritual practice, meditation, with that soul consciousness, we can all be very spontaneous life livers. We live life spontaneously as we are unafraid. We don't have to preconceive what we're going to say or do because you are tuned in to the one part of all life.

And I counted on that. Like early, I would pray, meditate and wait. And then the thoughts would come. I'd write down a couple of thoughts that I'm going to talk about and then give 40 minutes the way you... But you are... You've exceeded me in what you do. Well, I don't know if that's the case, but I mean, I'm just using, you know, medical text

and you were using the Bible and New Testament and things like that. Course a miracle teacher also. You know, I ended up... Like what I think was weird was I really was very rehearsed all the way until we'd made vaxed. And I was doing all these Q&As which helped. Like a lot of people just doing questions and answers, which is a very... And then found that I was like giving longer and longer answers, which I think is sort of historic. Turned into sermons.

Right, turned into sermons. And then somebody, while I was on the road, said we were at a big conference, the Wave conference. I think it was in Oakland at the time. A big chiroprud. We were going to be screaming backs and said, look, we've got a spot. open, you want to get up and just speak. At that point, I'd never like walk out and stepped on a stage and delivered to an audience. I said, how long, you know, do I have to talk for? They're like 30 minutes. And I remember thinking, oh, what I'm going to save for 30 minutes?

Like, that's a huge amount of time. But I took it on and I went out and it was easy. 30 minutes was gone. Now, anyone that gives me, asks me to speak and says, you have 30 minutes. I can't say anything in 30 minutes. I'll barely get done. I'm telling you who I am in 30 minutes. But it's really weird because I was, even my wife, it's a great improv artist and even she would freak me out how improvisational she'd be in life, yet I find it. And I'm lucky I have an amazing team,

like there's no script here, they'll sort of put things up in the teleprompter for me like thoughts or, you know, we have a couple of headlines we wanna go through. They're able to follow me, but I'm the most spontaneous, I get it, and it's like I've come know if you guys are in that place or not. But I sort of, you know, I always resented sort of that approach. I remember complaining about it a lot.

And yet you sort of like you are like your parents. What is it like for you speaking? Is it spontaneous? You know. Well, I prepare a sermon. It usually takes about six hours on Thursday. And then I leave it. And then it's like, it's percolating.

I'm thinking about it, but I don't reread it at all. and then on Sunday morning, when I'm standing back, okay, spirit, all right, God, this is your talk. You wrote it through me, and I get out of my own way, and I let it come through. And so often people will say, you know, what impact it had on them. And I know that's the script.

None of that had to do with, I mean, it's just what comes through. The universe is like, I'm going to tweak that a little bit. You know, I actually wanted to go a little further with it. So it's like, you're kind of like in a state. of being in the state of allowance, you're part of sharing this word to heal hearts and empower people to know that there's something greater out there. And when you really trust that and you really have faith in that, people can feel it because you're authentically open. Let's share this wisdom. And Shad also is a minister of unity. And he's

actually well let's talk about what he's doing I mean it doesn't have to be the case we don't know I went the other direction I mean I was got to the point where I write every single word of my talk because I was I would see dad Saturday night and like the announcement to go out dad doesn't have his talk yet you know it's like all right well we all hope that I get to talk and I come home early Sunday morning from partying he'd be sitting in the living room it's like dad still right and church is in three hours I don't want to be that situation but he's sitting there bringing in spirit i was like why can't spirit come tuesday right right spirit's here the whole time why does it have to come sunday morning so spirit's a procrastinator

so i would sit down on tuesday wednesday and actually sit there and pray and meditate and say let's do this now and i would write out my entire talk but the way i talk is i have a specific flow i'm trying to move you through to get to a specific direction as that work with me as i do that so i have to be scripted so that i hit points at certain times because I'm saying things that slides behind me are showing that I'm not even necessarily referencing but they're supporting what I'm saying so I got I got super super scripted like just a complete opposite director of the family was written I have my own teleprompter as I do my talk but recently now I just prefer a Q&A I'd just rather someone say I'm experiencing this what's your take on that and speak and have a conversation with an audience or a group of

people that is like I just you know fuel the pump with something prime the pump with something and i'll just get out of the way and we'll just talk about yeah now it's become more just now we're just sharing each other's flow and now i really love that now when people say can you give it the sunday sermon it's kind of like i have to go back to come up with a specific topic where it's going really i just say could i just show up and do a q and a after the service with your congregation like that's where i really love the flow coming back and forth because then they're saying stuff i'm learning from and then you hear what's actually happening in the world, what's resonating in that moment, what are they struggling with,

I can speak to that. When I was pre-writing a talk, it's like, well, this is what I'm dealing with, but it might not be relevant to what they need at that point in time. I agree. Just a point of reference, though. Shad is presently the presiding of unity movement worldwide. And so unity actually embraces these types of truths that we're talking about. here that you tune into your divine guidance that every day you live from that and you'll find life truly worth living and you really want to see something amazing and spectacular show up at the

unity of bolder church and listen to that girl right there to tishia give a talk she will take you to another place in understanding well you can you can watch online to you right you have all of your touch to tell me just while we're here plugging you know unity of boulder where we grow up the church that you now speak at where can people can go back you have an archive so you can go to our website at unit com and scroll to the bottom and an archive of the last five years of services are there and there's actually talks there of shads when he was the assistant with me we were associates a few years ago sermons of jacks and um you at 11 a m mountain standard time go to the website you need boulder Go to the bottom, hit watch live, and then you can also watch this on YouTube.

You can go in the archive on YouTube. To the Unity of Boulder. On YouTube as well. Just because I'll... And it's probably a little bit, you know, straying off. But people ask me, do I take Jesus Christ as my personal Savior? Or do I have an understanding of Jesus Christ? I would say that most definitely Christ is guiding force in my life.

but not in exactly the same way other churches have expressed that. Does anyone want to take the crack? And I think I've developed my own experience of that, so it may not be fully aligned. But I ask, is there a definition for how unity sees Christianity that is either one of, you know, anyone would like to take a crack at? My definition. Okay.

When you read the New Testament especially, you're reading a beautiful story, about a carpenter's son who stood up against the status quo of his time. They were all into the law and that the legal beagles and big shots in the law were following. Well, he taught a completely different way bringing people to recognize the power of God within each one of us. An interesting thing takes place if you study the New Testament

mind and heart, you will discover that Jesus, the Christ, disappears as a man, and appears then as the Christ within everyone, available to everyone. I'll give you an example. You can read it in the book of John when the Pharisees are talking, and the Pharisees you can interpret as hypocrites are talking to him, and he says to the Pharisees, even, before Abraham was, I am. You're not yet 50 years old. How could you say that you're before Abraham? And he's speaking from the Christ consciousness. And when you start to understand that,

he disappears as a man. No man lived before Abraham lived a thousand years before the time of Jesus, historically speaking. But he's saying before Abraham was, I am, and Abraham was glad to see you. by day. And what are you doing with your I am? Right. Your I am. You say every day with your I am. And what is the final word from the Unity movement? Charles Fillmore, the founder with Myrtle Fillmore of Unity, said the truest of all the Bible quotes

is in the book of the first chapter. It says Christ in you is the hope of glory. I think that's where, that's really sort of the crux of where we take Christianity is that Christ all of us. Christ wasn't Jesus' last name. Christ was referring to the essence within him and he came into his own Christ's nature as he matured spiritually. And that Christ essence is in each and every one of us and each and every one of us has the opportunity to come into our Christ essence as Jesus did. This isn't the way. We say Jesus is the way shower. He showed us how to do it. So he's this individual in time that showed us what we are capable of.

So it's not, you know, it's the greater works I, you know, you can do than I have done. That he's the way shower is showing us that you have these things. It's not this individual locked in the past 2,000 years ago. He's saying, look what you have at your disposal, this incredible Christ's power to do these things, this awareness that everyone has access to. So we break down this barrier to God to say we have to have this go between, we say, no, this essence is right here. You just have to unfold it within you.

And that's where prayer and meditation and spiritual practice, and if that essence is true, then absolutely, I'd be able to heal this body. I'd be able to heal my relationships. Because we're all sharing this Christ essence, you know, between each of us. So that's really becomes a personal journey and a communal journey to unfold this Christ's nature. How did you fail to misunderstand the words in Luke 17, 20?

You see, the kingdom of God, written directly in your scripture, the kingdom of God is within you. And in the gospel of Thomas, which was not accepted in the regular gospel, it says, the kingdom of God is all around you, only you don't see it. And you can put in there, you don't see it yet. Yeah, I think, and I, you know, when I think of the work that I do so many people, like how how do you have courage how do you do what you do that i'm not saying there's any way better than another way i'm just saying that for me that we were always taught that you know i think of the story you know peter called out onto the water or you know when you're you know sitting there

and jesus i shall do you shall do we were raised not to really sort of focus on the sinning or the bad part of ourselves, but to keep remembering what was a witness to what was possible. And so the work that I do now and what I, you know, is an incredible, you know, connection to God. I look at my life every day and say, am I living up to my full potential? Certainly I see the flaws, but there's nothing that stands in my way as a limitation. I am not whipping myself on the limitation. I truly believe we're working miracles now in the work that we're doing, all the audience out there and the sharing this coming together is a powerful, powerful,

evolutional moment that though I am, you know, speak about science and medicine mostly, it's getting harder and harder to separate these teams because it does feel like we're moving into a real, you know, cataclysmic event of good and evil. And so to talk about that for a minute, there's where we agree and we've had some discussions. We have had you were all running churches when COVID hit, right? You're trying to keep your church up. I was calling you and telling you, you marched in the 60s. You stand for, you know, self-healing, the, you know, the original unity, a founding principle was self-healing, you know, why are you allowing masks in the church? And you were, you decided to have masks in the church. So let's, let's, you know, for people out there that are,

I know, you know, challenged you know who I am or I get challenged because they know who you are. How did you feel, you know, how did you accept that as sort of the- Well, Shad and I were running the church at that time, actually. When the mass mandate happened in Boulder, Colorado, already, you know, a few years prior to COVID, there was a decline in the congregation. People were cell phones, isolation, people already going in an isolation that was happening before. before COVID even happened. So we were already feeling the impact of people of us online or just, you know, not being as dedicated the church as possible. So we were already concerned with the fact that we have a 30,000 square foot,

beautiful spiritual center that people weren't walking into and it's sustaining itself, but it was on the third. It could have been a very dangerous situation if we didn't have the people supporting this place that shared this most important message, especially with this COVID situation going on. The mask mandate was there, and we were basically told we could be shut down if we make the mandate happen. And we prayed about it.

We, you know, personally didn't feel like we wanted to wear masks, but it was kind of like, I feel like, we followed the situation because we didn't know what to do. We'd never been in it before, right? And we heard you, loud and clear. you know, you're following, you know, we're not followers, we're leaders the whole bit. But a big part of our congregation is elder. You know, we.

And it's bold of Colorado. I'll admit they're all watching CNN, Amazon. They're getting 24 hour a day, fear, terror. If you don't do this, you're not taking care of, you know, your neighbors. And so I get down, you're not doing a whole lot of good community. And that's what is going to come to. It just takes one. person calling the county and saying this establishment is not following county

guidelines they come shut you down who are you serving in that time and really have to look at the you which we were talking about earlier is who have you done the spiritual work to be ready for the process you're about to face I would say consciousness precedes results you're not going to just instantly do mind-body healing until you've developed the consciousness that is ready to do mind-body healing to look at the consciousness of the individuals you're working with in a community or in a congregation, wherever you want to call it. And you say, at this time, I have to serve them where they are.

I have to call them to a potential. This Christ's potential we're talking about, I have to call them to that and start helping them work towards. But it's really, it's spiritual bypassing to assume that I can just say, none of this is real, COVID's not real, you should get over this, it shouldn't affect you, that's a dangerous thing to say to a consciousness that's believing it is real. In that consciousness, yes, masks are mandatory, mandatory, social, things is mandatory in that state of consciousness where most of us currently reside.

Because getting out of that state of consciousness is really hard in a world that is entirely in that state of consciousness. So you say, how do I address this community in this state? I can't just leave them behind and say, you know, good luck. You don't resonate with me. I'm out of here. You have to say, I have to reach this group and start trying to elevate them to a place where they recognize you don't actually have to do all this. There's a consciousness that's superseded. But I cannot just leave him behind because I'm doing that work. And the individuals that are doing that work cannot just say, we're leaving you behind. It's, we got to do this together. We're all at different stages of development. And honestly, when you're a spiritual teacher,

minister, we're speaking to the advanced, like spiritual awakened souls. We're, we're also speaking with people that have just laughed up rolling into the center. People don't go to church centers because things are going well. They're in a hard time in their life. We're here holding space of people that are facing the biggest challenges of life. In churches, it's a very different situation than what you're in. We have to be supporting and holding a state of seeing people regardless of what, if we agree or not, letting them just feeling like whatever you are is perfection. All made in the image and likeness of God, then we let you be exactly who you are, where you are.

We can lead you and show you that there's some better ways to go about it. But as far as... As firing people to practice. Step out on faith. Check with it. And do that. And as you begin to do that, you'll see, oh, this actually works a little bit. Let me do a little bit more.

But it's a gentle thing. It's a loving thing. It's a gentle and loving thing. And for me, the division that happened in our church, you know, the people that were like, don't wear the mask. We don't want to wear the masks. You know, Shat and I were, I'm. I mean, you talk about a divide energetically.

It was, and we're also facing something we don't understand. They trained ministers to face a situation that was just going to hit us, hold the space for thousands of people, while we're also affected with our own children home, homeschooling them, with them all in depression in teenage years. Was there any of me? Because obviously, not doing my work. Is there any, like, does that affect you at all in the fact that I'm very outspoken?

in the space, was that coming in? I'm really grateful your last name's Big Tree. We're messing that up right now, then. I'm just teasing. No, I will have situations where there's this, people have been with us forever. Obviously, they know Dell, and they're just super so proud and so happy

and all those things. But every once in a while, I'll be like at a coffee shop that I go to all the time and some of you'll say, are you, Del Bigshey's sister? And I'm like, that depends on how you feel about it. You know, I just realized that I didn't explain the name switch. So, you know, Grandpa Big Tree, I decided to take on the Big Tree name.

I liked that background. Well, his was a made-up name. Right. As we said, Dad, you know, had his time. It's on the wrong side of the tracks. Part of your spiritual growth was to sort of leave shit. and create a different life, which you've done brilliantly. But I didn't feel attached to that name.

Groveland didn't, we never talked with. Did it bother you that I took on mom's last name? No, as a matter of fact, you're so, a path of guidance. You became more involved with Native American mojo and Native American ceremony. You were doing ceremony. You were doing ceremony and everything.

You were so right to take on the name. big tree because you will live in American ceremony in your life. So it was no, it's so justified. I wouldn't even have touched it. No way. Well, speaking of Native Americans and living, you know, for the earth, I think that a lot of things that we were raised through you, this idea that you, there has to be a balance with the earth. You don't take more than you give back. You were really big on this dad. And it's a big part of our upbringing. I say that, You know, I am an environmentalist. I want clean water.

I want clean food. You know, there's technologies that can do these things. But we are starting to have, you know, more intense conversations because I truly don't believe that the political system I grew up in, calling themselves environmentalists. I don't believe they're environmentalists anymore. I believe they're using this to control us and to, you know, to push things that we're not ready for.

We're destroying farming. There's all sorts of things going on now. But when we look at this, I mean, you guys, like, boxes. And there's, you know, bears that not only climb on your deck, folks, these bears have been found inside my parents' home on multiple occasions. We're all trying to get better locks, trying to teach our parents' wars. They love the fact that these bears will come into their house to start eating out of the refrigerator. I'm saying, I am expecting my parents will one day be eaten by one of these bears.

And I will just, I've made a promise. I'm going to put under tombstones. They die if you know legends of the fall. They're now big. Those were the ones that came in the house. They're now bigger when they're in your house. Yeah, but they know us. Yeah.

So they don't, they don't destroy a lot of stuff. They just get the food and they leave. And folks, we're not kidding. There are stories where, you know, don't go out in the living room. just bears in the living room. This has happened. Yeah, we have bolts now in all our doors. Okay. All right. So, but you're really, I would say in all, I remember once, you actually had a gun, weren't like a gun family, but you owned a gun dad. Yeah. And I remember like we were, you were, you were sort of radical on Y2K. You thought Y2K was going to hit and all this. And then someone

asked, so you have a gun to hunt. And dad said, oh, I'd never a gun to shoot people if they try and come at me. That's exactly right. So I can honestly say I think that in my family, animals are held in some sort of a higher regard to the earth than humanity. Totally. Is that 100%. Do you feel that way?

Absolutely. Yeah, they're here first. All of our dogs are with us. We just took a 16-hour drive here with three teenagers and a dog in the car. Okay. I mean, with a car. Right. The dogs are important.

So let me just state, for the record, this is, I think, where I've parted ways with the family perspective. And I remember this. It's truly one of the things I think is the worst part of liberal speak. And I'm not, I don't think this should be political. But when I think of when I was a progressive liberal, I actually thought of people as a disease on the planet, that they are killing this planet and their real. ruining this planet. And as I've done the work that I've done, I'm more and more think about that idea that we are creating the image and likeness of God. And how could it possibly be that that image is a disease on this planet? I think that that is being foisted upon us.

I think it's why liberals are becoming authoritarian because they're making ourselves. They're making us hate ourselves as individuals. They are not letting us see ourselves as contributions to this earth, but something that hurts the earth, therefore do to me whatever you want to do to me because it's better we protect the earth. Here's, I mean, and we can have this out right here because this is a place where I think is because this vaccine thing's going away. I think global warming is going to be the next tool to control us. I think they're going to start tracking our carbon credit scores.

If I eat a steak, then I just used up this many carbon credits and I can't buy gas tomorrow. I'm not down with a, you know, Shad, you have a tiny house. I mean, like, let's, you are, you are, and I'm not putting it down. Like, you are a genuine, like, tried and true. You're not full of it. You're living a tiny house. You drive a Prius and a leaf. Like, whenever you can, like all those things.

So what are your thoughts on what I've just said? So you look at our creation story in the Old Testament, the word dominion is where everyone's taken liberty with that word. And they say, we have dominion over the birds and the fish and the people. and say, oh, then we can do whatever we want with it. But dominion doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want with. It's actually a word for caretaking. A king that has dominion, it doesn't mean he goes and kills and eats everyone. It means he's a caretaker of his realm.

So what I see is we are supposed to be here care care, the animals, the things we live with. It is our dominion as we are caretakers, not that we are rulers and overlords, but we are here to serve and caretake. And the founding of unity principles, our founders talked about that what you eat energetically is affecting your body.

And when you eat on through a horrifying death or has been torture or it has been raped and artificially inseminated, that thing is carrying a horrifying energy in it because of what it's gone through and then we're ingesting that energy into our bodies. So ultimately people talk about, and I'm a,

it's been my spiritual choice, it's been God's ask of me is what I start to say because it's not easy in this world. It's not an easy thing to do. But I've recognized in this process. in the ass of the barbecue. There's no doubt about it. Everywhere I go, period.

I recognize that. I'm not one of these vegans. Like, yeah, we should all be vegans. I'm like, it's not easy. But I recognize, even if it was not the healthiest diet for me, I would do it because of my resonance with the animal kingdom around me. I cannot possibly look at the thing that God also created in God's image and likeness, just like created me.

I cannot look at that and say, I have a right to take your right. life for my flavor. I do not see that process possible. So people say, well, that's not necessarily best diet. I sometimes struggle with making this work, vitamins and everything I have to do, but it's worth it to me because I'm supposed to be a caretaker for these beings I'm looking at, not someone who's taking from these beings. So yeah, everything I do, I think about, if I'm authentic in my beliefs. If I'm not living what I say, then I'm inauthentic in my word. And then my message is irrelevant at that point. I'm not living what I believe,

that my message is irrelevant. And if I want my message to be relevant, my life to be a message, and I have to do exactly exactly. And I fall short. And we all fall short all the time, but it's constantly pushing myself, can I do more?

Can I live on less water? Can I live on less waste? Can I live on less resources that I'm taking? Can I give more back? And it's not necessarily that's a struggle. It's become a game. It's just, you know, one of your hobbies like anything else. But that's, you know,

my life is my message. I don't want people to say, look at this hypocrite. I say, you can do this. It's not necessarily the most difficult thing in the world. You can live as one with the... It's not be a taker. You can be a giver. And I remember St. Tisha, we were...

I think Chad was like 11 years old or something. There was this big event on the mall in Boulder. It was like nine, actually. He was like nine. And this is true story. There was like a Hari Krishna set up. And so... that nine years old wanders into the ten.

tent where they're talking about vegetarianism or something, right? They're showing like- We weren't vegetarians at the time. We were eating chicken and we never ate a lot of beef, I would say. No. Or pork, ever. Never pork. Chad, like nine years old, wandered into that Hari Christian tent.

You've never told us what they did that they're said. But he has been a devout, like vegetarian, at nine. The rest of the family didn't, you would sort of roll with it for a while, but I mean, I've been vegetarian for a little while, Mom made us all. I mean, we wouldn't at our friends' houses and stuff. And I wouldn't say, I think the ones. But you guys have been vegetarian for a really long time. But the point you made is so valuable.

The point that you're making about the world and the way we see the world cannot be divided up by politicians into who's right and who's wrong. At some point, if you are open in your mind, in your heart, and you're starting to open to try to understand the presence of God in life, you will begin to see that everything you look upon is sacred. Everything is sacred. And the Native American ceremonies, it's sacred. If you take some herbs from a particular area, you have to make sure you're leaving some herbs behind and you give thanks for the herbs you've taken. And it's the same thing with everything in life. Everything is of God.

Sacred. And if you think of it as being sacred, you don't exploit it. You don't over-tube. Wait, I want to ask you a question. So what do you mean about that? So you feel like you're, you don't want to lose your rights to be able to like do whatever you want to do it. Because they're going to give you a carbon tics. You're going to feel controlled by the government. Is that what you mean? Yeah, I think that I believe now, first of all, I think has been proven that the government is the worst way to handle any moral issue on this planet. In fact, that I say all the time, Dad, you can't legislate morality. I think that the way we're raised is attempting to legislate morality. I would say that I lean, if there's anything,

I would say I'd probably lean more towards a libertarian perspective now in that I want to be absolutely possible. I think we do things better on our own. I think we do our things as private industry better. I think that when you look at Texas, you don't see the same homeless issue here. People with money and affluence here actually do give through their churches. They do have soup kitchen. They do need to take that money and build homeless shelters. At least that's what I'm seeing. I could be wrong. But I do think that we are better working on our own. And I think market forces do drive things. I think that the Prius is popular and the Tesla is popular. It became viable. It's become relatively, it's getting more and more affordable, and nobody wants to pay the gas.

It's not the first time it's gone up to $4 or $5. And so to me, every time, you know, you were calling me saying, Donald Trump is going to take away the restrictions on and blah, blah, blah. And we're just going to go back to those gas-guzzling trucks. I mean, these are the conversations we have. I said, no way. People are not going to go back to an inferior product that uses, gets eight miles to the gallon. When they have a truck that does the same thing, that can get 20 miles to the gallon. I believe that things actually even a much more believer in that.

And I used to call, I used to say it was bull crap, but truly the only way things get there is they have to become viable in the market. I think there's ways to make this earth cleaner. I don't think this global warming. I hate it as a concept. Stupid. I think it's far reaching in trying to predict where this is all going. It's impossible to decipher exactly how much is manmade and how much is natural. We see cycles.

We've had ice ages. We've had heating cycles. We've had ground so I can point to those things. But ultimately, you know, when I look at these things, I think it's absolutely stupid to start killing yourself because you're worried about people that are going to die. Let me be perfectly clear about that. I'm going to get on a coal mine in West Virginia because somehow 15 or 20 years from now, the ocean is going to get a foot deeper. and everyone with a beach house is going to drown and die. Therefore, let's kill the coal workers.

Let's destroy their livelihood. Let's go into a welfare class where they can't be their families, all to protect the loss of industry that might be out there 10 or 15 or 50 years in the future. That's stupid. That's playing God, as far as I'm concerned. That's saying we're so sure that our understanding of the society, we're going to ruin people's lives now to protect lives in the future. I think that's stupid.

And I think that that's playing God. Let me just first say one thing, clarify. I don't say everyone has to be vegan or vegetarian. I don't think anybody's in a place to push their ideology. I think there's a natural unfoldment of consciousness. It's not about legislation. It's about doing the work to uproot consciousness itself. And I've come to a place in my consciousness.

I'm not saying it's better or worse, that I resonate with something that I don't allow any longer my life. For the people to recognize that same. opportunity but to talk about the cycles of the environment going up and down in a way it's looking at it from perspective how you want to look at it you want to be able to negate the opportunity that you might be restricted and how I see it restricting you in these ways but either they're going to do it or nature's going to do it and the government's trying to step in and say we need to slow

this down because we can do it easier than nature's going to do it when nature comes in and says you've gone too far and these floods do happen and the oil things happen, it's going to be much harsher than, yeah, the government's going to fumble at it and they're not going to do a great job. At least the message you're sending is we're getting to a point where we have to do something. And because all of you become so complacent, you've pushed it off so many decades that we've known for 70 years now that this was happening, if all just passed it off and procrastinate, now we're at the point that something's got to give. And either the government's going to step and enforce it, or nature's going to come in and it's going to be much more harmful.

Yeah. And that's where we're at that point. I say leave it to nature. I'm a natural law guide. Leave it to nature. Have all the public service announcements you want. I would totally be involved in advertising. I've always said a commercial, forget global warming, just do a commercial where someone brings their baby carrier in.

They pull it out of the car, right? They shut the garage door. The baby on the ground. Forget about the baby and walk in and just show the muffler blowing and show the baby sitting there. And we all know that baby's going to die and say, wouldn't it be great if, you know, what's coming out of your car doesn't kill you? we can get there. I mean, that to me is, you know, would be far more affected than making me worried and the ethical, you know, the first and most affected people are the underprivileged.

That's the unfair thing. We say, yeah, let nature take care of it. And you're looking at the third world countries, they're the hardest hit by the first wave of global impact. They're getting the starvation. They're getting the water issues. They're also, by the way, they're the first ones hit by the global agenda that's trying to precede this whole thing. They're killing the farmers, They're destroying the poor people. They can't buy a Tesla. They can't get to work. They can't afford the gas.

So all these things, I'm sorry, but the under- are attacked by either, whether it's nature or they're attacked by globalist government systems. And so, again, in the end, I'm not down with global. And I disagree. I think nature will not be as harsh as a bunch of money-grubbing, jet-flying, who get off on controlling people that see, you know, and that's really what it's about. I mean, you mean to tell me that you want to put our environment in the world in the hands of like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, that these are the God-filled that will grace us into the proper way that the planet should work?

My only point is they're trying to do something. I don't think they are even remotely the human beings that should be addressed in this issue because they have zero capability, psychologically or spiritually, handle it. No, I think it's, yeah. But they're at least stepping up and saying something has to be able to be able to do. to be done and they're fumbling the football. But if we don't step up and start saying I might have to use a little bit less resources and pass some of those resources onto those third world countries that are struggling or underprivileged people in our own country, it's hypocritical for me to sit

back and say, as an affluent white man, we'll just let nature play this out. Meanwhile, I watch you suffering and getting destroyed just because you don't have the means to barricade yourself against this, what's happening here, like I do. That's completely unfair. Evolution. They're not going to do it right, but if we don't step up, something's going to give. Human race is always evolving. And all of the things that you are speaking about right now are part of that evolution. But you're talking about, yes, people are making attempts in the government to say something needs to be done.

They have some sporadic, strange ideas about what we could do to do this. But really, it comes down to, again, being in touch with. this divine intelligence, which all the church is present, this intelligence we call God's omnipresent, so we have to tune in. And what is it going to tell us? You don't have to run the water in your sink, just keep it running while you're brushing your teeth or shaving. Just let it run and run. You don't have to do that. You can turn it off as you're brushing your teeth and go back and then, you know, wash your toothbrush off. You can do that when you're shaving. You can do a lot of things. creation with this greater power, this greater love that we teach about in our work.

They say, what are you doing when nobody's looking? You've talked about that a lot in your sermons. It's like, I'm walking every day on the most beautiful river in Lions, Colorado, and it's probably some of the most beautiful parks in the Colorado area, and it's got all the time, and there's a lot of beer cans and a lot of trash that keeps ending up in the water. I spend my entire walk every day picking up the dog crap that somebody didn't, pickup or the cans and the whatever and I enjoy it. I enjoy it. I feel like I'm an atmosphere to help take care of this beautiful river that I love soaking in and being in with my children. And I don't feel like I like recycling everything that I'm picking up with that situation. There's a recycle center

just down there. I think there's a lot of consciousness in Colorado around one. Right thing for the future for the seven generations of kids that we hope have a planet to live on. And so being a part of it, it turns me on to do that. It turns me on to be a co-creator and do something great. Look, I think most of the people that watch this show, standing at more libertarian's perspective. I only say that because it's an independent space that kind of makes sense, but they would agree with you.

It's about personal inspiration. When you have these people dabbling in things they know nothing about, coming from no spiritual space, mostly all they do is fund the very people that end up attacking. us and taking advantage of us, and I think that's dangerous. But mama, you know, woman who dines with bears, do you want to weigh in on this? You know, what are your thoughts? I mean, this is something that's always been really important to you.

I just think there's too much big money. When they did Citizens United, it was the biggest mistake they ever did. They took and they put that whole, all the rich people could be, or corporations could be. That was the most idiotic thing. ruined democracy. Unless you get rid of that again, you do not have any power with a good person who wants to run that won't be financed by a machine where you will don't get the money from the people to become the representatives. You've got to get that back because you do not have democracy now. You only have the rich people running the planet. And that's the problem.

I agree. Get rid of citizens united. Everybody get rid of citizens. United. Everybody get rid of email that, text it, whatever. But that's what you've got to do because that was the biggest mistake ever that happened. Yeah, money in politics. It's buying every Democrat. These good people that could run can't get the money. And he's just keeping the bad crack. Sorry for the bad word.

No, it's okay. I think right here we've given enough of a sense of what a dinner is like. The Big Tree Groverland table. It's heated. It's real. I've said it. And I want to say, I'm glad you all kind of really. got this is how our family has always been.

And one of the things that I say on this show is the destruction. What's happening to this world is because they made us believe we couldn't have these conversations. We couldn't discuss God. We couldn't discuss politics. We've got to keep it friendly. Our family is intense. I thought about that.

It's not much of a vacation when we get together because we end up, and God forbid, a couple of glasses of wine get filled. And then it gets very passionate, but we're passionate people. We still love each other. We don't fully agree, but I think we know it comes from inside of ourselves, which is what I think we share in the work that we do in trying to make the world a better place. I just want to say one quick thing.

What incredible spouses you all have. And what wonderful you and your spouses are raising. Do we want to sort of drag them all out here? Come on, we want the spouses to come out here. I want to say something about the crew. I'll wrap with them. amazing show. Yeah, the crew is incredible. Boy, do you have a team. These people are the most amazing. On out, everybody. They're all in their bathing suits and things like that.

And my producer is saying, we didn't really plan on this. But why not? This is, this is how we do it. Okay, look, and don't forget, you've got to. Yeah, dad, plug your book one more time. How come is me? Get in here. Best novel. Where we got? We got, we're Tyler, whatever. The kids. Where are they at? They're probably, hiding. Anna Jade, you're not going to miss this moment. Hurry up. Here we go. Come on. Hurry up. Everybody go to your. Right. Cool. Get in here. Step up here. All right. I'll go ahead and call it here. This is our gang. It's a family affair. It's all about family. This is what we're all fighting for. This is what the high. This is why I'm here.

It's for my family so that we get to express the freedom that we get to live our lives how we see fit, that we get to raise our kids the way we were raised. I'm not asking you to raise your kids that way. And the government should never mandate upon you to raise my kids. The government should stay out of it. We should all be allowed to pursue this world as long as we're not hurting one another, as long as it's about our own health, our own safety. We are sovereign.

We are humans. And here in the United States, we're the beacon of light for the world. on what it means to stand for what's right. Do use less water. Watch how much gas you're using. Do you really need to drive? Could you walk? I'm down with all those things. Make the world a better place. That's what I was raised with. Taking this opportunity to spend a little time with my family. This is the high wire. It's a little bit different than usual, but we'll see you next week. Back to the science.