The Highwire with Del Bigtree - AUTISM: THE TIRELESS FIGHT, WITH JENNY MCCARTHY WAHLBERG AND DR. JERRY KARTZINEL

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

Celebrity Warrior Mom, Jenny McCarthy Wahlberg and Autism Treatment Specialist of more than 25 years, Dr. Jerry Kartzinel join Del to discuss their tireless fight to bring meaningful autism awareness and treatment, having tackled even the toughest topics around the issue including the vaccine-autism connection, and to announce a new community they are building for adults with autism and other special needs.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

I have a couple of amazing guests that came on, are coming on right now, actually, to join me in studio. And they have been shouting from the mountaintops at total peril and risk to their own careers and their names. And it never mattered to them. Two gigantic heroes in Jenny McCarthy Wahlberg and Dr. Jerry Cartanel. This is what they've looked like in the news throughout the years. The actress, a devoted mom and a bestselling author, please welcome Jenny McCarthy. actress, author, and autism advocate, Jenny McCarthy. I'm here with Jenny McCarthy,

who has become one of the most vocal advocates for parents of children with autism. Jenny McCarthy is here to tell us about her latest book, Healing and Preventing Autism, a Complete Guide, along with co-authored Dr. Jerry Carsonel. Now joined by Dr. Jerry Carsonel, board-certified pediatrician from Jacksonville,

his practice is devoted to the research and treatment of autism. Are you always a warrior mom from the start? Always. Really? Day one, the diagnosis. I cried for an hour, and then I ran into my office and Googled the word autism. And boom, I was on. I am witness to my own child being fully recovered from autism.

How old is? Six years old now. Completely. Completely lost his diagnosis. This is the doctor, by the way, that treated Evan and got him to recovery. If you're witnessing, like Jerry has, for how many years you've been? Ten years, yeah. Ten years.

He has seen recovery. He has witnessed children speaking for the first time at age 10. So it's very real. There's nothing in medicine that we do. Whether it be lytocaine, whether it be anesthesia, whether it be a simple surgical procedure, we can have a problem. Why would we think that we can give every child in a nation,

not one vaccine, but multiple vaccines, and not suspect anything to go wrong with them? You can't do the same thing to an entire population not expect something to happen. We know that we can't give every child in the United States a shot of penicillin. The majority will do well, but there's going to be a certain distinct group of people. be a certain distinct group who won't. So why would we think that we can bring in

anything and expect the entire population to take it without a problem? I am a mom of a child who has a voice that is willing to shake the ground of those responsible and tell all of our children our suit. It's called a recommended schedule. We're not anti-vaccine, but it's called recommended for a reason. Hepatitis B is a shot that we feel you could delay. We do not need that many vaccines. that we need the chickenpox i think can be appearance choice the rotavirus the flu shot that still contains mercury no you remove certain medications off shelves because they're deemed unsafe why not vaccines they have not even really acknowledged that there is a epidemic of autism out there and if you

look at what webster says an epidemic is it says that there's a disproportionate amount of something affecting a population that you wouldn't expect to be there well autism has reached that and it's even growing faster. It would have been a lot easier to never tell anyone. My son had autism, considering he's in typical school and he no one ever would have known. That would have been a lot easier. So the fact that I came out, put him on the cover and exposed him to all of this, was it worth it?

Hell, yes. For all those little kids that are going to feel better because of Evan's story, you're damn right I do it again. I can't help but think how many of you watch. at this moment saying wow I judge that story wrong when that first happened it is my absolute honor to be joined right now by Jenny McCarthy Walberg and Dr. Jerry Carsonel thank you so much welcome to the high wire you guys so excited to be here I love this show oh thank you love it so amazing so much I want to

talk about but let's because we're just sort of coming out of this COVID thing Jenny. What do you do you feel a sense is there any sense of like release I mean obviously your career's rocking now you sort of have sort of moved through some of the attacks that were there but are you getting a different sense now that people sort of are seeing this is not kids it's not hidden it's everyone at one time injuries everywhere you know a hundred percent you know before COVID you know, I would still get a lot of the name-calling, you know, anti-vaxxer label. You know, I think I was the one that first got labeled that.

And, you know, it's interesting as I watch even, you know, some people on TV that go, well, I'm not for this shot, but I'm not an anti-vaxxer. Right, right. You know, I'm like, guess what? Now you are. Right. Because things have changed so much from me being called. called really terrible names to apologies.

Not that I need any, but I'm really blown away by the thousands of messages I get that say, like, I'm a nurse and my child, not my child, my young adult son was injured by the COVID vaccine. Just so many apologies that I see that the tide is turning, but it took this pandemic for people to kind of really see it. I've been sort of saying that, you know, as I've been speaking on this,

for the last several years when I got involved in it that I was saying stop talking I mean we act as though we actually take better care of our kids we care more about our kids than we do the adults whatever and I said that's incorrect I've been saying this to audiences the whole time we may say that but I said turn the conversation around stop talking about that you're concerned about the vaccines for children say they're coming after you you know that this entire adult schedule on the CDC and they plan on vaccinating you and you'll watch their immediate reaction well I don't need vaccines Well, they think you do over my dead body and you watch a defensiveness pop. I was saying that because this is on the way.

I watched you early on, Del, like well before this, on this show. Say, guess what? They're coming for you. And you gave so many warnings and still. So, well, I mean, I learned how to give warnings from you. You're at this. Jerry, you've been at sort of the heart of the science of this. Obviously, you know, working with Jenny and her son.

You know, how has this. you know, how has COVID affected this perspective? Are you seeing any shift in the thinking around autism and its potential connections? I think the biggest shift we're seeing is putting the connection between A and B that vaccines can injure some people in a population like we've talked about in the past. And now people are hesitant saying, well, if COVID, for example, doesn't really affect six or seven month old or one-year-olds as far as putting them in the hospital. Maybe it's a vaccine we don't have to give. It's the first time people are thinking maybe it is a vaccine that we don't have to actually give to this patient group.

Right. That's a really good point. You do see a very, very low uptake in that very young age where parents are just like, this doesn't make any sense to me. So finally, you know, we have found a vaccine that doesn't make sense to the greater body of people. for their children. Tell me, how did you two meet? How did this connection happen? It's a great story. Somehow you got my personal phone number and she called me at home. And she says, Dr. Cartanel, I said, yeah, she goes, this is Jenny McCarthy and pauses. Like, I'm supposed to know who Jenny McCarthy is. I'm probably the only one who didn't at the time.

And she goes, my son's having severe seizures and I'd like you to come out and see him. And I said, well, where do you live? And at that time, she was in California. And I said, oh, I don't travel to see individual patients. And then she'd explain, I can't put him in a car to drive. The sun going through the trees would pixelate and it would trigger a seizure. He's been in the hospital. I've said, I just can't. I've got a busy office. I can't go. She goes, let me speak to your wife. So for fun, I'm going, honey, Madonna. Jenny wants to speak to you. Who's Jenny? Jenny McCarthy, like I know who she is. And you get off the phone. She goes, we're going to go. see Jenny in a couple of weeks. She's going to take care of our flight and put us up in a nice

hotel. I go, I don't do that. You go, yes, you're doing this. And that's what we do. We met her in her home. When your kid is sick, you will, nose are just not an answer. There's many times where I busted, try to get through doors to, you know, help my son. And I'm so grateful. My pleasure. So grateful, because he is the most incredible, wonderful, heartfelt, loving, smartest doctor ever. It's really amazing. What's interesting, I mean, when I, we were getting so jazzed about doing this show because as you know and many of our audience you know my executive producer Jen Sherry Perry was at the doctor's television show that's where I was at was at the doctor's television show I dragged her over when we

started doing the high wire and you know you two made quite a splash with J.B. Hanley in fact I you know I would say it's one of the most famous television moments around the conversation of autism that's ever happened. And so to sort of, we're going to get into how this has all come full circle away, but let's revisit, shall we, this incredible moment on a CBS show that two of the producers on this show worked on so we can see what's happened since then. Folks, this is the doctor's television show, Jenny McCarthy.

At that time, just January McCarthy, now Jenny McCarthy-Wallberg, Dr. Jerry Cartonnell, and, of course, a little cameo by Jamie Hanley. look at this. First of all, talk to me about the diet that you all have been using. Well, you know, it sounds like we're treating autism, but we're treating the complications of autism. I don't treat autism. But if you have a child, for example, who does not process dairy well, either they're lactose intolerant or the proteins get messed up and it acts like a morphine in their system, we're saying, you know, this food doesn't process well in your body, let's remove it. We do that for lactose intolerant people. We remove gluten-containing

foods for our celiac disease patients. Why wouldn't we say, hey, I wonder if we can do some testing to validate this conclusion, and we can. And we remove the dairy from their diet. We remove the gluten from their diet. And all of a sudden, the children may sleep through the night, sleepless nights. That's a problem we can take care of. So a gluten-free diet, is that something you recommend to treat symptoms of autism for all children that you see? Bout symptoms. You keep trying to get me into this autism thing. I look at each symptom and what the child presents with. And if they're having problems with constipation, if they're having problems with chronic diarrhea, if they have a laboratory test that tells me that they're making morphines from these particular food groups,

or I do an allergy test and it tells me I've got allergies to these particular foods, then you bet I'm going to pull them out. And then we notice certain behaviors kind of dissipating. For instance, when I removed dairy, Evans' eye contact came back. That stoned look from an opiate was now gone and he was now glued into me. So we're seeing by removing certain foods, the behaviors for autism dissipate. Well, you know, these kids truly are the canaries in the coal mine. They're the ones that are most sensitive to the environment

and are teaching us this generation who's ever willing to hear their warnings what we can do to better our health. People say that I saved Evan, Evan saved my life. I went in and found the toxin overload I had. I found out I was allude to wheat and dairy. And I found out about having no VOC paint, how important that is, how carpet can off gas.

VOC is volatile organic compounds. And the flame retardant on beds, you know, to have those removed. All these important things to make your environment as organic as possible was taught me through this generation and has helped saved Evan. You can think about things like a genetic predisposition. If you're born allergic to cats but you're never around cats, you're just fine. But once you're around cats, then you have the inflammation of the nasal passages, the eyes well up and all.

What thing can we do in medicine to an understanding? entire population and not expect a certain small group not to do well with. There's nothing in medicine that we do. Whether it be lytocaine, whether it be anesthesia, whether it be a simple surgical procedure, we can have a problem. Why would we think that we can give every child in a nation, not one vaccine, but multiple vaccines and not suspect anything to go wrong with them? So genetically, whether it be penicillin or whether it be a vaccine, we have to understand

there's going to be some children who are not going to do well with it. like the cat. These are the canaries and the coal mine. We're going to find out really quickly. So that's probably one big reason why we have problems with this is because we don't look at the children as individuals. We look at it as a population. Let me tell you this. We do not need that many vaccines that we need. The chickenpox, I think, can be a parent's choice. The rhoda virus. The flu shot that still contains mercury. J.B. Habitat B. We don't want to narrow, be too narrow-minded and say it's only the vaccines and not, and ignore other potential problems. In my opinion, and this is just me wanting to have an open debate about this, vaccines are really the one thing we have looked at as causing all of this.

That is completely bogus. That is such a bogus statement. How many vaccines have they looked at in these studies? How many? What's the answer? It's two. How many ingredients have they study of 35? What's the answer?

It's one. You've looked at two of 36 shots and one of 35 vaccines, and you're going to stand on the stage and say that vaccines and autism are unrelated. It is the most bogus tobacco science. It's a smokescreen. Anybody who takes the time to read it would agree. I'm so sick of doctors who don't read the studies, who don't know the details, sitting here telling parents and reassuring them that vaccines don't cause autism. It is irresponsible. And this is the biggest problem and the reason that doctors in this country are frustrated. Read the science. Listen, all you're doing is you're antagonizing a medical community that wants to help these kids. You haven't done the research.

You're antagonizing me. You're antagonizing Dr. Sears. Why would you do that? This show is all about his past. Okay, you know, everyone wants to blame someone, right? Yes. This is what we're trying to figure out here is how to help kids. But all you do when you yell at me on my stage, all you do is anger me.

I'm sorry, I heard the feelings, but you did know the details. I asked you to defend. your stance and all you did was attack me. As an individual, why would I want to listen to you when you do that to me? Instead, I want to listen to Dr. Jerry here who will rationally walk through why they're removing certain things from foods

that could be causing problems, why we're removing environmental toxins that could be causing autism. We know with certainty that vaccines cause brain injury in a certain percentage of children. We pay it out in vaccine court. It's on the website.

We know with certainty, and maybe one of the reasons that I'm angry, and I am definitely angry, and I apologize if I cross the line with you personally, but we take the phone calls from the parents who go to the vaccine visit, who get sick shots, who lose their kid, because they stop coming to the pediatricians. There's a tremendous increase in autism.

There's no question about that. There's a tremendous increase in other illnesses as well. Let's have an open discussion. That's why we have Jenny here today, because we want everyone to talk about what we can do to improve the lives of families dealing with this. Do you know that I have sat down with the marriage? down with American Academy of Pediatrics and said,

come and sit and talk to us, take a look at our science, take a look at how we treat our kids so you can teach the pediatricians and they told me to write a letter. So you can see the aggravation in parents. So we get upset and we go, you guys, let's have a conversation, yeah, let's have a a conversation, but no one will talk to us.

I wanna just put on the record because I did work on that show that, you know, Travis gets a really bad rap for that moment. Yeah. He was a really great person to work with. Because of him supporting some of the stories I wanted to do, I was able to look into glyphosate in the World Health Organization

and the fact that it's now known to cause cancer. So there's a lot of great things I got to do. So I really want to put that out there because I know our audience really jumps all over him, but it's an outrageous moment. It is. It went viral for a reason. It goes to show you how many times

have we seen things similar with other journalists? Like, you're hurting my feelings. That's not a debate. But even more so with doctors. I mean, really this thing with doctors, because it's just such a, you could see there, he's not being yelled at. J.B. Hanley is, you know, making a decent point that you're wrong.

There's only two studies, you know, that you're referencing is like, there's a mountain, there's not a mountain. We've done it right here on the show. And I just can't help now with, you know, that's 2009. We're talking 14 years ago. And you just imagine you were putting this effort in if he had actually listened. Say, you know what? I'm going to take this on.

I'm going to take this on with CBS and the doctors. I'm going to talk to Dr. Phil. And we're going to, you know, we've got the funding. We're going to do those. I'm going to look into this because it's a really good point. Would COVID even have been possible? With this pandemic, with a bad vaccine that's now ravaging humanity, would we be here? I mean, what you're getting to watch, he's just a doctor with the same close.

minded look at this. I'll look at the food, I'll look at everything, but I won't look at this issue and so here we are. Do you know where his stance is now by chance? I do not. I sort of lost track in the middle of vaxed. But you were, that was your light bulb moment too. Yeah, well, I mean, I wasn't vaccinate as a kid. So I didn't really have an understanding of it. It just was sort of where I was coming from. But it was, I mean, I really learned what was going on there. But let's talk about diet because, you know, obviously you got some kudos there. He was a little bit upset with J.B. Very happy with you, Dr. Cartanol. But this is one of the few things. You know, when I run into people and families of autism, you know, just recently, I was just seeing at spring break

and this person saw some people literally at the resort come up and start talking to me, some, you know, friends or friends. They're like, wait a minute, what do you do? And then they go, I have a child with autism, you know, what, you know, and I've always been concerned, you know, what, we're still working with our child, and I said, well, what have you done about diet? I mean, it just seems like the first place to start is, you know, what is it about the diet? Like, it, because I know people are watching right now. We're, we're, we're one in 44, right? Being diagnosed with autism, right? Is that the, yeah, one, and was one in 10,000 in the 1980s when I was in medical school. So something went from one in 10,000.

It was one in 150 when I was on Oprah when I first came out. Saying that this is skyrocketing and we've got to do something about it. What number will it take for us to all wake up and realize there's a problem here? Right. And now what is it with boys? One in what? 1 in 32. Right.

Because not so many girls get it. It's like 1 in 4, 1 in 5 girls get autism to the boys. But getting back to the diet, you know, even now, talk about close-minded of many physicians. If they get a diagnosis and I just had one at UCLA, and they cautioned the family and don't do that gluten-free dairy-free diet. It's been proven not to be effective in treating autism. And again, we get back to treating autism. And what we're doing is we're addressing in many of the children,

probably 70% of my practice benefit from removing 100% of the gluten and 100% of the dairy. Sure, we can do lab work, but it's an area that I have found that let's just do this. And it's easy enough nowadays, you know, when we were doing it, this a decade, two decades ago, it was hard to find gluten-free foods. It was so hard to find it. And if you made something, it didn't taste great and you had a lot of rice granules stuck in your molars, like, not such good.

Now it's excellent. Yeah. Food is excellent. So gluten-free, dairy-free has been amazing. You mentioned that as soon as you removed dairy from Evan. Yeah. The eyes just clear up and now we've got eye contact, sleeping through the night. You know, many of the kids can't sleep through the night.

And I said, well, let's go gluten-free, dairy-free. Now they're sleeping through the night. Yeah, I just want to reiterate also, because we are talking about these types of treatments and things like that. But it reminds me about all these, like, older, autistic, young adults that will contact me and say, stop trying to fix autism. Stop trying to fix me. You know, you act like, I'm a problem, and this is me, and I'm perfect the way I am. You are perfect the way you are.

We are talking about kids that are severe or have comorbidities, seizures, intestinal issues, that's why the diet helps. We're not trying to change the individual. We're trying to change what I used to use the word like ouchies and boo-boos, things that hurt. And we notice that once we fix those boo-boos, that the kids started feeling better. They're able to make contact. They were able to absorb the information from the therapists. and we saw the growth from there.

So I just wanted to reiterate that. Yeah, and I think it's one of the really difficult parts about this conversation is really, I think you're touching on it, which is sort of that combination of Asperger's and autism, right? And I've had this where I'll be speaking at an event, and someone will get on the microphone, I'll do an open mic, and they'll say,

I have Asperger's and you're saying that I don't deserve to live on this planet or I'm a bad person. I'm not saying anything like that. And frankly, I think there's a real problem with these two. Even though they may be related, there's a real problem in trying to address these as the same. Because on the one hand, you have these individuals that can go to college, they can live on their own. And in some ways are exceptionally brilliant and doing great in school. And then, you know, they're trying to say that because I'm concerned about an adult that's in diapers that can't speak,

that is slamming their head through the wall and is difficult now too big for their parents to handle. These are not the same things. And you cannot, you know, equate what we're trying to do here, as you're saying, with something against, you know, this other group. It's true. It's hard for people to different, when you put it under one bucket, when it really is a spectrum to go from the savant, to brilliance to sometimes, you know, can't understand or can't speak or can't, you have to wear a diaper,

until they're 20, you know. We're talking about the severe children, you know, the ones that don't feel good, the one with major issues. You know, Evan was having epileptic seizures that put him in cardiac arrest. You know, these are the kids that were putting all the energy into making better. Right.

And that's why I always brought it, broke it down to symptoms. You can have autism, but you deserve to have a bowel movement every day, not be able to go once a week, or you deserve a good night's rest. If you have autism and you break your arm, just because you're autistic doesn't mean, I'm not going to fix it.

Of course. You're a child with autism. I'm going to fix your arm. I'm going to fix your allergies. Why should they have sneezing and irritability from their bowels from the foods that they're eating when we could just fix it.

You can still have your autism, but at least you feel great inside. And that's where I've always said, recover. Like you hear me use the word recover. I never said Evan was cured because you don't really have a cure necessarily, but he recovered from these injuries,

recovered from his vaccine injuries, which allowed him to speak, to get back on track to meet those milestones, to go to typical school. So that's what we mean by recovering, recovering those injuries. What is the mechanism for people that are watching or listening, and so many, if 1 in 45, so many people are dealing with this, or they have a friend that's dealing with it.

Is there an understanding of why changing dial or casein or gluten? And you've made this statement in the doctors. Is it morphinization or? Okay, so there's a lot of things that, are going on in our children's metabolism, starting at the mitochondrial areas, and then the immune system gets tweaked a certain way, and they become hyperimmune, hyperalergic, hypersensitive, or they become autoimmune, where they have autoimmune disease, and they actually have inflammatory bowel disease that has to be treated with certain medications. So what we have to

do is try to figure out, as Jenny put talked about, the comorbidities, with your autism, What else is in your boat? What else do I have to unload to improve your quality of life so you can enjoy being you? And so certain foods can trigger certain metabolic processes that aren't good for you, whether, just like migraine headaches being triggered by cheese or chocolate or broccoli,

you just take that out of the diet, and for some people that basically cures their migraine headaches. What we're doing is trying to figure out what in their diet, and it's not just gluten and dairy, it could be soy and corn, and citrus, but everyone's individualized. But the area that I get most bang for my buck is the removal of the gluten free,

remove the gluten and the dairy from their diets, and that helps. And then we can fine tune the other things that might be bothering them. We can see what's going on. Are they bloating? Are they gassy? You know, we don't like to think about it,

but the stool is our exhaust pipe. And you can tell really quickly what's happening in our metabolic engine, just kind of like if you get behind a car and it's chucking out black smoke, you know, something's wrong in that internal. combustion engine. That's why pediatricians used to wear bow ties. Because we'd always look at the stools and we didn't want to drag our tie into the poop. So it's very interesting that nobody looks at that anymore. Nobody listens anymore on the children. But I always start with the bowels.

And part of that is the food. Jenny, I mean, so you were on the stage. Obviously, Travis, you know, gets really upset. You're there trying to share things that are working for your child. In fact, you're on Oprah, you know, you're making this talk circuit and discussing how the life can be changed by removing, you know, these toxins. Why is it still? Like right now, I'm just this morning, I'm having to deal with a reporter that is clearly doing a hit piece on something I said at Autism 1. And it's all about, you know, the politicization of autism treatments. Whatever that mean. I don't even know what that means. Right. But what is the attack on treatment? It's like little, as you said, you know, don't listen to that.

Don't do the gluten-free casing diet because what? What possible difference would it make? I think it's because it's, we call it a toxic overload. It's an injury. And when you do that, the arrows put, well, where's the injury from? Boom, vaccines. Okay. So if you can cure it, then we have to ask ourselves, you know, so now, is it just because then it's not, it's not like your DNA caused it?

If I can cure it, if a diet changes it, then it changes the entire conversation. Is that what they're really worried about? They're worried about if you're telling me you can recover from an injury, then that injury, yes, exactly. Then it would be vaccine. So you just get the answer to your question too. And they don't want the answer. They don't want it. And that's why I said 25 years ago when I was treating parents and they said, well, why is removing

gluten and dairy helpful? Why is doing this helpful? And I'd say tongue in cheek, ask me in 25 years. when we've done all the research. Right. And now you look and people are Googling all this stuff and like nothing's coming from the universities. Nothing's coming from UCLA or USC or Stanford or Syracuse.

Nobody's doing research because I think like you, they're kind of worried about. Well, there are a few. I think we have a, I think that we got a couple studies. Like I think it was out of ASU or Arizona. Here we go. ASU. Oh, there you go. Autism symptoms reduced nearly 50% two years after a fecal transplant.

This is a microbiota transfer therapy, alters gut ecosystem, and improves gastrointestinal and autism symptoms, an open label study. This is the brain gut microbiome system, pathways, and implications for autism spectrum disorder. There's, you know, all these immune system and gastrointestinal deregulation linked with autism. That's UC Davis. So granted, it's not, it's not like with autism at 1 in 45, it should literally be every university, as you're saying. It's a couple of very brave professors that are discovering what we thought. And so just very clearly, in some of these studies, they're taking, you know, really the fecal matter in its mouse studies, right?

From, you know, autistic children and putting it in a healthy mouse and finding that they develop autistic characteristics by putting the fecal matter in there. Then they've even found it's gone as far as the more severe the autism, the more severe the autism in the mouse that receives, the fecal, you know, matter from that. These are outrageous studies. They've done studies where they're doing fecal transplants in autistic children from healthy children and seeing that, you know, a difference in those kids. I remember when I was on Oprah and it was the first time I was on

and I had talked about the gut-brain connection. And I was killed. I was so beat up for years of like, you idiot that you think there's a connection between. I'm like, maybe someday. And then it took about like seven years later, the New York Times, I was like, oh, we just noticed that there's a gut brain connection. I'm like, finally.

But it's, I'm just hoping in my lifetime that we can. How about leaky gut? Oh, God. And now that's in the American Academy of Pediatrics, but leaky gut was a forbidden word. There was no such thing as a leaky gut. But that's why I say I tend to start with the gut first. But getting back to the study of fecal transplants, again, if you are that individual, when we say,

autism, it works with a certain group of children who have a certain set of problems in their gut, an overgrowth of chlostridia, for example, that this would really, really help. But the FDA is clamped down on that, and it's only for research. I know a lot of people who hear this and they're going to start trying to get it done. You can't. I couldn't even get the material myself. You have to be part of a clinical trial. You have to be an infectious disease or gastroenterologist to do the study.

And it's, so you have something that could potentially help a lot of children out there, but we're not allowed to use it. Nuts. Wow. And in my understanding is you can't really be severely autistic. We're still leaving this group out in the cold. When I see these headlines, I, you know, I think things like, you know, this, as you said, you were saying on Oprah, there is a gut brain connection here somehow.

I always want to say the headlines should just say Andy Wakefield was right. Totally. You know, which was all the Lancet study ever said, never said this vaccine is causing autism. That's just what the parents are saying. But what we are seeing is a direct connection between this gut dysbiosis and, you know, and some of these symptoms we are, you know, watching in autism. But again, like when I, and as you said it, right, leaky gut is now known. I think about the fact that, you know, we now know that mental health, there are tons of studies being done,

that mental health is being affected by health of the gut. Probiotics. Where are probiotics? Nobody took a probiotic when this all started. Now, you know, you go to the shelves. I got 50 different forms of probiotics. You were staying on the doctors. I learned about VOCs and pain.

I learned about off-gastin because of autism. I learned about, you know, dairy and gluten-free diets. Jenny, the world is totally awake to everything. They're all a part of that. The only part of it is we all forgot. It was autism that taught us this. That's right. They were the true canaries in the coal mine.

Absolutely. If you think back, where we are now. So when COVID happened, you know, of course I watched the show. We're like, oh, here it comes. You know, there's going to be a vaccine mandate. It felt very dreamlike from my perspective. Because, you know, we had this feeling very early on of like, oh, God, if it's happening to our kids, they're coming for us.

And hopefully we can be the warning signals early, early on. And we were. for some parents. And some parents said, thank God, you kind of gave me that education a little bit, but obviously not clearly enough when I see how many people are now damaged today from the COVID vaccine.

When we look at the culture now around this conversation, I just saw, I think as parent.com or something put out, here's why vaccines don't cause up. And look, I know this isn't even your issue now. We're gonna get to where you're at, but it is where we all come from. And there's still this desire to sort of bury this. my question is, and by the way, I want to make it clear, I don't think any of us think that vaccines are the only, you know, cause or problem here.

What, you know, my understanding, and you can correct me, is what we have. And in some ways, it is genetic, right? As you said, you could have a genetic allergy to cats. You have a disposition that in many ways you don't detoxify as fast as other children do. So therefore all the toxicity, we are toxic as mothers. Overloaded. The umbilical cord, we're all overloaded. And these is this small minority of children that cannot clear this stuff out of their body fast stuff. So it's just piling up. And then boom, brain swells, major event.

Is it that shocking? Right. That the result, you know, and a mother really put it well to me. She said, vaccines didn't cause my child's autism. They caused the encephalopathy that, you know, the swelling of the brain, The resulting symptoms of that could have been, you know, Tourette's, could have been schizophrenia, and in my case, it's autism. It's a toxic overload. I always described it as a bucket of, like, how many toxins can you fill in this bucket before it overlows. You know, I hear about people that live next to farms, and when they spray it, there's children whose autism gets a million times worse.

So it is our environment, and that's why I got into the off-gassing of carpets and the NOAAVOC, because I want to keep that bucket as low, is possible with toxins. I've always thought, in looking, at least in always, the last several years of really being involved in this, when you think about the canaries in the coal mine, it seems to me we should have built massive science institutions investigating autism, because all that really is is our own bodies

at a very sensitive level. What we could learn if we would not just bury this and hide it and say, you know, because we're so afraid of what's actually causing it, If we would look at it, as you said, we would have learned so much about the human immune system, our bodies, what we can handle and what we can't. Let's look at these very sensitive individuals because we're all carrying out. We're all unhealthy. We're a very unhealthy society now.

What would we learn if we really tried to understand what's happening in these very sensitive? A hundred percent. And I always thought, like, you would think someone from our health agency would have been like, wow, you know, Jenny McCarthy is talking about how she helped heal her son. And she said there's thousands of parents who are doing the same. Let's talk to them. Let's look into. Because, wow, if we can interview them and talk to Jerry and what specifically are you doing? Because nothing.

There was no contact. I actually did call the AAP, the American Academy pediatrics and had them and sat down with them at a table. With doctors and scientists and, you know, nothing. They literally were said, you know, we were trying to get a toolkit prepared, like, do some research. And they literally left and just said, write a letter, just dismissed us. It was so disheartening. Because think about it. Evan is 20 now.

20 years ago, if they would have just started that. Started that. We would be so much further along. I have a question for you because you are still in the thick of it. You deal with, you know, this all the time. we are watching VOS in pain. We are watching carpet off-gassing. I would say that you'd be hard-pressed to find a mother out there

that hasn't even at least heard that there is some concerns that the vaccine could cause autism. Is it, are you, you know, I would guess, and I'm not sure that it's the case when I ask you, is the severity of autism going down? Because I would think now, there's a couple of things. Mercury has been, taken out of the, mostly out of the vaccine program, other than the flu shot.

There's a couple of changes have been made, but mostly all the stories in vaccines I went around, you know, the parents were told while they're watching their child start to have seizures, you know, get listless or losing eye contact, oh, it's natural, this happens, don't worry about it. So they kept vaccinating, kept vaccinating. And then I think you just drove a child that maybe, you know, you could have recovered if you could have gotten them earlier. now it's getting more and more difficult. Now I have to believe, even though maybe we haven't just changed the conversation, but your work out there has at least led to, you know, parents saying,

okay, I didn't believe this, but I just saw my child change overnight, and I am stopping right here. Is that affecting the severity? I think two things. I think you hit on it that when I first started the average age of a child coming see me was four or five and they usually got diagnosed maybe at four. If they went in earlier, oh, well, boys are just slower to speak or he's now working on his motor and he's not talking anymore.

What about the eye contact and the tantrums? Well, you have a new baby in the house and that's probably they're just, so they kind of prolong the actual intervention. Now I'm seeing them 15 months, 18 months of age. Like I had one last week was seven months old. notice something different. And I think you're right. I think the earlier that we institute treatments preventing any further harm and removing toxins and designing supplements that might help the body remove toxins, the kids do a whole lot better, a whole lot sooner. And they, you know,

when I always tell David at the front office, it's like a 14-year-old with autism wants to come and see you. He's just eating pizza and drinking coke all day. And he's going to hit mom the face and breaks windows, I probably don't want to see him first. He probably needs to see the psychiatrist. They miss that window. But if I had him 15 years prior, what we could have done to change that trajectory and those learned behaviors as well. And I just want to say I'm so thankful for the doctors and even all the parents that have

worked so hard to like get the word out and be brave. And, you know, it's not easy, as you know, for these doctors to do what they do without losing their license or getting condemned. So I'm just so grateful to you and to all the doctors and the parents who just don't give a f*** what people say. Keep spreading the word and what they learned. They built the movement. I mean, frankly, you know, I was just speaking with, you know, a really great politician that wants to dive deeper into this. And we'll do some of that work?

But just saying, do you feel like Vax failed, he asked me. Do you feel like, I mean, it just seems like that should have changed this whole conversation. Why didn't this change Washington, D.C.? Why didn't it move Washington, D.C.? And I said, well, I wasn't ever under some impression that this was going to change overnight. But I would say this conversation is why we don't have a vaccine passport today. Why COVID did not get all the way down the road. Why 30% stood up against it because we had built the movement.

And we, I mean, really you, it was one person. I mean, it really, in many ways, you were out there all. alone when I you know and I said this when I was at the Senator Ron Johnson's hearing and we had I don't know 20 doctors and scientists all speaking out about the COVID vaccine injuries and I just wanted I said I want you all to know something that though you're brand new to this and you're being very brave there are doctors that came for you that didn't have 15 or 18 or 19 other people sitting with this table there were you know actresses like Jenny

McCarthy and people that spoke out that We're all alone. It was very scary. So we are standing on the shoulders of some of the most incredible individuals. Thanks, Dal. It was very scary. You know, I met with the actual speaker of the house in 2004 with Dr. Bradstreet in Disney World at a very nice hotel. And they wanted to know what was going on with the autism epidemic.

And we had three hours with him at dinner. And he really, really understood and really, really wanted to help. But he said that there were powers that we are not aware of that are going to prevent this from going any further. And he wish he could do something, but he can't. I spoke with Social Security back then and saying, you know, Social Security, and this was, you know, 20 years ago, already projected to have problems. I said, you're not seeing what's coming down the pipeline demanding Social Security checks in the form of disability. And they said, there's nothing we can do about it.

We're just gonna have to let's see what happens with that. So even though we were trying to tell them what was going on, it wasn't gonna move anywhere until people like you brought it out to everyone who's listening. What is going on here? And you have to consider, I do have children in my practice who've never been vaccinated and they have autism, so we know it's not just vaccines, it's the pesticides,

it's the glyphosates or who knows what. Maybe it's that rare one in 10,000. and 10,000 that really was genetically, if you will, programmed to have these symptoms. But it's a difficult situation. And now that they're getting older, we have a bigger problem on our hands. Huge problem. I mean, this is something that, obviously this is the focus. So let's get into this.

I want to just sort of play. Let's go ahead and introduce it with. You've got a great new project. Home Life, folks, take a look at this. So Home Life is. you know something that you're working on a place you know to really start developing ways we're gonna handle I mean those the numbers you share in there over a five million adults or people with autism that will all be moving

adulthood as a parent and you know Jenny you can probably share this that is the biggest concern when I talk to parents of autistic children they're like if I die if anything happens to me who's going to to take care of them or my child's aging out. I'm in a real problem now of being able to be in control of their lives. I don't want them to just go into a home or they're going to tie them to a bed. They've got no concern for them. Number one fear, I know it, for parents is I can't die.

My next book was going to be like I can't die because it's the only you know how to care for your child, but then I also thought about like, God, what about those people that don't have extended family after they pass. away. Does their child have to be, you know, put in an institution run by the state? You know, and we have the most vulnerable group. They're so sensitive to so many things and people that I couldn't even imagine it. And I thought to myself, well, I have to serve in some way and figure out how to create a community where they're safe, or these vulnerable kids won't be, will be protected. And then Dr. Jerry came to me talking about this idea. And I said, well, this is

what I want to do. And this is what he wants to do. And I'm like, we were meant to be together. Yeah. So here we are. So we've got this phenomenal community idea, because as you look around, what do individuals with autism want? Now, remember, we're not talking about those young men and women who can work, who can live independently. Right. We're talking about the severe and the moderate ones.

They deserve homes too, okay? And they also are going to need round-the-clock care. You know, my son, he's 27. He needs his insulin measured out for him and administered to him three times a day with meals. He can't figure out his own numbers. He doesn't even do clean his own glasses or his ears. So these young men and women need a much greater amount of care. And the idea that we're going to put them at a car dealership to wash cars or push shopping carts around.

When some need diaper changes at the age of 20, that's not realistic. How are you going to do a diaper change on a young female who's 22? I mean, we've got to have a different level of care. And yet they do want to belong. They love being with each other. They love swimming. They love playing basketball, dancing, singing, arts and crafts. Of course, the computer, movies, Legos, they love to be involved with others at a certain, at their pace,

not at what we think their pace should be. Yeah. So we have to come up with the community. Now the homes out there are wonderful ideas where they build a home in a community and say they're part of the community What happens with those guys and gals is they can't just go out and walk because they'll continue to walk and they won't come back So they tend to be reclusive and they tend not to get involved because they can't go out We want to have a master plan community Resort style that's just absolutely gorgeous as you can see from the pictures yeah that will involve them and help them grow mentally physically spiritually,

develop social connections and friends, and well, why not? And then we need to show that this can happen as well as basically clone it all over the country because there are a million people, 1.3 million who need a place like this right now. Yeah, we want to build it and teach how we build it. We're desperate, desperate for donations.

I mean, I told Jerry, I'm like, I'm going to do this until the day. I die. This is the charity that I will be focusing on. I have to make happen in this lifetime. And the sooner, the better, because we so need it. The parents need it. So people are listening, please, even if it's a dollar. Everyone just donate it's a dollar. Let's just bring up the website right now. If you're watching, this is such an important cause. Folks, this is going to be our cost, whether we get involved now or wait till later when this starts hitting all of our systems, our hospital systems, our hair care home systems are going to be flooded. Or we can start you know, preempting and getting involved and taking care. This is a brilliant idea, home life community. This is how you get involved. We have one of the most active audiences out there. I'm so proud of all of you out there because when we discuss things like this, your world changers. We really have to do something here. These are folks that deserve beauty and to be taken care of whether their parents have passed away or they're getting that point

where they can't handle it anymore. This is so important. And we've got to, to get on this because these millions and they're at one in 45 it's just it's more and more every single day we've got to start figuring out you know how we are going to handle this in our society and absorb this into our communities this is such a brilliant cause and i'm willing to donnie and i are willing to host charity events so you've got some big donors please contact us because we were happy to do big events to raise funds for this fantastic let's look at just some of the We've got some images of just what you're working on. You have just over 40 acres, I understand it?

So we have a contract on 42 acres. Okay. And it's already been approved by the city council and the mayor. So everything is like just green lighted. We want this. These are your renderings of what this property is going to look like? What you're looking at there is the main lodge. This is the stables and riding area.

Some of the young men and women really enjoy taking care of the horses or riding the horses. the horses or just being involved with animal husbandry. I'd love to get some alpacas in there, some gentle animals in there. But again, to stimulate their minds, their bodies, get them back to the roots of just being out in the wilderness to being involved. And yet, this particular facility in Jackson,

Tennessee, it's tree-lined, it's got walking trails, hiking trails, yet we have five colleges and universities nearby to supply us speech therapy speech therapist physical therapists occupational therapists all the because they're all the training right all these universities around there are working at being able to serve this community in their future you can you know get a lot of that work done and is it I mean you know I would think that there's some self-sustainability there in that you've got universities that can come in

help say we'd like to use this facility to train in correct there's obviously some funding that comes to these individuals that that can help with it but there's really a heavy lift here to get There is, especially because a lot of kids age out of the school services. Right. So then parents are finding themselves with a 22-year-old that they don't know what to quite do with even. Yeah. So there's going to be, you know.

The day program that they'll be able to come and say they're not ready to have their young daughter or son move in, but they sure would love to have a place where they can go from, say, 9 to 4 and again, have all the enrichment programs that are there to stimulate their minds and their bodies and their health and have a great time. And they pick them up. And that's a great way to start. And then so back in the old days in camp, we had the resident camps and the day camps

and they shared facilities. So we have our residential and we have our day campers, if you will, coming in and sharing the facilities. Wow. And we want to do this debt-free and we're going to try to avoid all government involvement, as you can imagine.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, we can do it right. Yes, exactly. Just so what they're doing in our banking system. We can't have that happen. to this project.

Jay, don't you ever get, I mean, you just seem like an energizer bunny. You never sort of back off. So many people would be afraid to come into this space again. I mean, it was brutal. Brutal. I mean, brutal attacks upon you. Every time your name comes up, just the worst things, you know, would be said. You've sort of finally, I mean, you're out of that.

It's amazing. I mean, who would think you could rebuild a career, get back in front of cameras and get it all happening again? And then, are you just the glutton for punishment? Are you just going to jump in here? What is it? You know what? I don't. I think I have a, obviously, I have feelings and, you know, saying articles that were, you know, bashing me hurts for a millisecond.

Because having the amount of people and parents come up to me and say, like, oh, my God, this helped my kid, this helped my kid. I will take all the beatings in the world because to know that I'm of service in a positive way that's actually affecting lives you know bring on the beatings I don't care you have an amazing husband and Donnie Walberg he's been the best such a great great guy I mean seriously

the times we've gotten to hang out I'm just like this is like the coolest sweetest neatest human he is he really is I feel like I want the guy Lotto in this world God looked out for me in certain ways, you know, going like, here, you dated some really bad ones. Here's the best of the best. And I got Johnny Wahlberg. So, and he's always supported me. And that's why when he heard about this and talked to him, he said, I'm in.

Let's do it. Let's raise the money to get this going. And for you, Jerry, I mean, your wife, you have a family, you know, obviously you could just let it go. I've done my job. I've done an amazing, you know, job working with children. What keeps you in here? Why keep pushing this envelope? Well, it's a God thing.

I mean, it's the way I'm wired. God gave me Joshua. And, you know, you can look at it and I could be really upset with myself. I did bring this on upon him as his pediatrician. And I can go around being angry at God, angry at the world, angry at myself. But that doesn't fix anything. So you turn that energy into positive, and it's like, well, I gave you Joshua so you can now have the opportunity to treat thousands of other people,

and maybe even more, because of the books that we've had. Yeah. But now I don't have a, in my mind, a work philosophy of retiring. I want to work till I'm 85 or 90, and this is my opus. This is what I want to do. I want to create and be instrumental in helping multiple facilities like this one just pop up all over the country. And it's just a heartfelt desire to provide for these young men and women as they age. And part of this that we didn't talk about right next to our big lodge is a nursing facility.

I don't like calling them nursing facilities, but it's going to be for the young men and women who actually need more care. Or we don't know, but what if these children becoming adults start having dementia-type behaviors? The brains just are starting to fall apart. We want to have a place for them right on our campus so they don't have to leave. And so they'll be able to stay there as well. So we've got another project right behind it, already been approved, to put up there so we can take care of all of their medical needs, their physical, spiritual as well. Why would I quit?

It's just very exciting. And the thing that I really like, and I spoke with Jenny, we're not going to get too many arrows in our back for building something that takes care of special needs adults. I mean, both sides of the aisle will agree that this is needed. There might be some controversies, whether you should have six in a house or eight or four. But otherwise, nobody's going to take us to task for doing something like solving a housing problem. Right. Right.

Let's take a moment again for our audience out there. I really want to say not only, you know, when we think about these moments where we have an opportunity to make a difference in the world, maybe you don't have the funds to really make a difference. I mean, we can make as small donation as you want. But how about why don't we all start getting together and talk to those people that we know can make a difference? We all know those people that can sponsor things like this, that have, you know, done very well in their lives.

If you could just be a messenger to this mission, remember, this is just one, you know, one space, one community in a job that needs to be done across this nation and frankly around the world. We're not alone in this in the United States of America. So let's take this opportunity. Take down this information so that at least you know what to do with it. And obviously, like always, if you're on our newsletter, then you will get all of this so that you can click on the links.

All you have to do to be a part of our newsletter and get all of our information for free every single week is just scroll down at the highwire.com and punch in your email there. It's that easy. And then you get all the details, all the Catherine Austin-Fitz information you saw earlier. everything we talk about, we're fully transparent, we put it in your hands so you can do your own investigations. As we wrap this up, I mean, I think about one of the, you know, just what you said, which just sort of triggers this thought, that there's some things we don't even know.

We're just really watching this population move into an aging space, which says to me, and are we finally through this ridiculous statement that autism has always been here? we're just diagnosing it better because any intelligent person should be saying where have they been going for the last hundred years that they were here they weren't here we don't know anything about this this is such a brand new thing and this idea and there's been great books denial um by mark black that really got me through years which is like we're just diagnosing it better i'm like really i don't remember kids spinning in class and you know screaming and tantrums growing up not one not

Maybe a little ADHD kid that could be let me. I was that kid. Yeah, me too, me too. It's absurd and I don't know. Are we past that? I'd like to know the answer to that too. Well, it's a little more scary. What I am talking, what I'm hearing from medical students

and young doctors is that autism is now considered an alternate child developmental pathway. It's now- Pathway. It's a pathway that some children take and it's nothing to worry about. You're still young. You can make other children.

And that to me is really scary. It's becoming so commonplace now that it is just in an alternative developmental pathway. I mean, that's what I find so frustrating about this is what is we look at the epidemic, what we just called an epidemic, which is, you know, affecting really roughly 3% of the elderly and almost nobody else on the severe level. Here we're at 1 in 45, 1 in 32 boys up from 1 in 10,000. I look at you on Oprah saying, This is a crisis, and there at the ticker tape, you know, below on the TV, it's one in 150.

And here's where I know, as my red flag, as a journalist goes off, which is we have an epidemic. This may be the worst epidemic. This is making it so that people can't run a Starbucks. They can't. I mean, we may be moving towards not being able to run a standing army, you know, or a grocery store. I mean, this is a serious issue. And the fact that at 1 in 45 now, no one at CNN is talking about it. That's right.

No one in MSNBC. No one at Fox, frankly, no one in mainstream media is low. It's not going on. This is a cover up. No one in the American Academy of Pediatrics. Right. Okay. When you review last year's articles, if there's anything on autism, it's how to diagnose it early.

I mean, how about this? What does our military look like in 20 years? Right. If we're in one and two, boys. Right. Well, you're coming out, let's just play that. This is from Vax. This is Stephanie Seneff, MIT mathematician, working out the numbers.

If we continue in the direction that we're going, this is what she said in that film. Every couple of years, the CDC provides a number of what percentage of the kids are diagnosed with autism. And you've got the dots going all the way back to 1975. You draw the line. It is a perfect exponential curve. If we assume that things are going to continue, as they have, the past 30 years into the future we can predict that by 2032 80% of the boys born will end up on the autism spectrum half the children 80% of the boys you mean when I when I look at it and by the

way you know not to pull out in aggregate but this thing is such a fast moving needle I'm just being told that AAP is now saying we're not at 1 in 44 we're at 1 in 36 do we have that think do we pull up this headline look at this is just coming out wow autism rate rises to 1 in 36 children As we speak. As we speak. And as you said, boys, so that's even lowering the number in boys. This is a crisis. It really is.

This is a crisis. And I refuse. People will say to me, Del, you're having so much success in all these other issues around, you know, vaccinations. And you got COVID, let go of this autism thing. And I said, I will never, ever let it go. Thank you. Otherwise, it's going to affect, I mean, it is, it is affecting almost. It is going to affect our health care systems, our financial.

systems and I believe we could actually end this epidemic. I do too. I really do. I used to think that this would get figured out and I'd have to change what I do for a living, taking care of guys and gals on the outset of spectrum and me deal with women's issues in their 40s and 50s. You know, I'd have to reinvent what I do. It's still here. Yeah. Yeah.

And getting worse. Busier than ever. Yeah. Well, thank God you're doing something about it on, you know, on both sides of this now. I mean, you've been spectacular, Jenny. So many people, I can't imagine how many millions of children's lives you've saved. Well, thank you. Same to you, Joe. Yes, absolutely. Same to you, Jerry. It's just an honor to know you.

And thank you for taking time to come all over here to Texas. Thanks for doing what you do. I love the high workers. My favorite show. I tell you that all the time. This crew, this show, you. I just love you guys. Absolutely thankful.

And if we get caps, we're going to send it all. All right. That sounds good. Well, awesome. Thank you very much for joining us.