The Highwire with Del Bigtree - BREAKING FORMATION

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

Justin Bieber’s ‘Mystery’ Illness; CDC Lifts Testing Requirement; Fauci’s Got Covid!; HW Exclusive: Dr. McCullough Under Attack; Breaking Mass FormationGuests: Dr. Peter McCullough, Senator Ron Johnson, Professor Mattias DesmetBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are out there in this beautiful world. How about we all step out into the high wire? You know, every once in a while there's a viral video. I mean, there's viral videos that just go crazy and everybody's sharing it, you know. But then every once in a while there's a viral video that really lets you know whose team you're on, where you start watching the comments and you realize, boy, this is a heated debate and I know whose team I'm on. Well, this video, I think you know what I'm talking about. We're talking about the Bebs.

As you can probably see from my face, I have this syndrome called Ramsey Hunt Syndrome. And it is from this virus that attacks. the nerve in my ear and my facial nerves and has caused my face to have paralysis. As you can see, this eye is not blinking. I can't smile on this side of my face. This nostril will not move. So there's full paralysis in this side of my face. I'm going to get better.

And I'm doing all these facial exercises to get my face back to normal and it will go back to normal. It's just time and we don't know how much time that's going to be, but it's going to be, it's going to be okay. Obviously a disturbing and upsetting video to see, you know, such a beautiful kid, nice young man, obviously confused by what's going on, but keeping himself calm. But you know, if you saw this video. It's everywhere and the commentary is wild and crazy. And of course, so many people saying clearly that's a vaccine injury. But before I get into that exactly, I want to get into the details of that. But I want to remind everybody, as many of you already have online and on social

media, he's not the only one in the household that has what someone might think is a vaccine injury. Remember, this was his wife, Haley, just a few months ago. I had like a very scary incident on March 10th. Basically, I was sitting at breakfast with my husband, having a normal day, normal conversation, and we were in the middle of talking. And all of a sudden, I felt this really weird sensation that kind of like traveled down my arm from my shoulder

all the way down to my fingertips. And it made my fingertips feel really numb and weird. I couldn't speak. The right side of my face started drooping. I couldn't get a sentence out. Everything was coming out, like, not even jumble, just couldn't get any of the words out. So obviously, immediately, I thought I was having a stroke,

like a full-blown stroke. He thought I was having a stroke. So right away, he asked for somebody to please call 911 and get a doctor. Where we were, there happened to be a doctor there, a medic there, who rushed over and they started asking me questions, they started testing my arms. Definitely the scariest moment of my life. So basically, they did some scans and they were able to see that I had suffered a small blood clot to my brain, which they labeled and categorized as

something called a TIA. I'm going to try to put the definitions of everything I talk about under here so that I don't butcher it. Basically, it's like having a mini stroke. It definitely feels like having a stroke. My scans did show that I had a lack of oxygen to a certain part of my brain for a certain amount of time. The conclusion was that I had a blood clot that traveled into my heart. And instead of what typically happens if you have a small blood clot is that the heart will filter the blood clot to your lungs and your lungs will absorb because the lungs are so big and they can handle it. What happened with me is my blood clot actually escaped through the flap or the hole in my heart and it traveled to my brain and that is why I suffered ATIA. So the recommendation from my doctors at

UCLA was to have a procedure done called a PFO closure which is when they go through your groin through the femoral vein and your groin and they travel up to the heart and they put this small little button. It looks like a little button that buttons close the flap in the heart and then eventually your heart tissue grows back over the closure device ever since the TIA I have been on a blood thinner and aspirin every single day and I was also having an issue with the blood thinner medication because it was exacerbating my anxiety if there's anybody that watches this that has gone through the same thing I understand how

life altering and scary it is. Well, once again, I mean, just a terrible story by Haley there and the idea that she may have to be on blood thinners or as pharmaceutical products the rest of her life because of what happened. I mean, first of all, I just want to say my heart goes out to both these two. They're in their 20s. They're vibrant. They're literally at the top of their lives and the dream of what anybody's life would want to be, yet they're suffering these issues. Now, I want to make it clear in this conversation that because we are going to talk about the vaccinations and, but of the millions of people that are out there watching, there are many of you that are pro-vaccine, many scientists I know are watching right now, just ready to jump on me. I know

you're ready to write your articles. So let me be perfectly clear. There's no way to know exactly at this moment whether either of these issues were caused by vaccination. So let me also say that I'm not a doctor. For anyone that's watching the show, or maybe you're new. or you make a judgment out there. I'm a journalist. I've never gone to medical school, and it's been often pointed out that I have no medical background.

That is true. I've always said, which is why it should be shocking to everybody that I've been so accurate on the high wire when even the CDC and the FDA and all of them have been getting it wrong when it comes to efficacy and the vaccines or the fact that they would say

they would stop this pandemic using vaccinations, and I told you that was never going to happen. A lot of this is because I have an amazing team of scientists and doctors are behind me, but putting that all the same, side as a journalist, what my job is is to ask appropriate questions. And I guess the question today should be, is it plausible that these issues could be caused by vaccination? Since we jumped out of the trials early, we had emergency use authorization, and then the FDA decided to just go ahead

and let them erase the placebo group by vaccinating everybody that was in it so they will never have any long-term data or any understanding what these vaccines are doing in the short-term, mid-term, and long-term to people because they've totally trashed their data, then we're left with trying to figure this out in real time, as we're all now a part of this giant experiment we never signed up for. So given those circumstances, when a star or a celebrity ends up in the paper with something that looks like it could be a vaccine injury, I kind of think it's our job to start asking the appropriate question. Haley-Baver confirms she suffered stroke like symptoms due to blood clot.

So let's start right here. Has anyone out there ever heard that this back? vaccine could cause blood clots. Just a question. I don't know if you're in the audience. Just think how many out there have heard that the vaccine can cause a blood clot because that's what happened here. So I think it's pretty obvious. If you're in the audience and you're thinking, no, that's not possible, then I'd like to know what island you've been abandoned on for the last two years of your life. The truth is, is the science is there. The articles are everywhere Americans. You receive the one dose Johnson and Johnson COVID-19 vaccine where 3.5 times is like to develop rare blood clots

compared to the general population study finds. And in case you're not about the Johnson and Johnson, thrombocytopinia following Pfizer-Modernia, SARS-CoV-2 vaccinations. Here's a study about that. Recognizing vaccine-induced immune thrombotic cytopinia, COVID-19 vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopinia. I mean, we could do this all day.

I could show you there are countless studies, another one, thrombosis with thrombocytopinia syndrome associated with COVID-19 vaccines. There is studies all over the world dealing with the fact that they know that these vaccines can cause blood clots. What do blood clots do? They run up your arteries and if they get to your brain, you can have a stroke and you can die. Luckily for us, Haley did not die. But if we're going to ask the questions, are we sure that it, you know, there's no way you can say that it was a vaccine that caused it. That's a ridiculous statement. It absolutely has to be

under the table, on the table, under these circumstances. Studies all over talking about thrombocytes, of pinae and blood clots. And if you go to the VERS, open VERS system, there it is. These are the reports to VERS on vaccine injury. 6,781 reports of thrombocytopinia, low platelet count in the blood. All of this being that very unique situation that's putting people in hospitals after vaccinations. I want to point out that they will always say that these are not accurate numbers because this is a passive recording system. I just want to say that is true. That number is far below what it probably should be. VERS is always underreporting. But, you know, this new case with Justin Bieber is a little bit more complicated because, you know, we really haven't heard of this syndrome a whole lot, but many of us started looking into it and guess what we found? This was a tweet that went out.

In the span of a few weeks, I saw four cases of Ramsey Hunt syndrome. Three were recently boosted. I had never seen a single case in 32 years of, of my ophthalmology practice. Okay, is it backed up? Yes, here we have the British Medical Journal. Ramsey Hunt syndrome following COVID-19 vaccination. Some cases were attributed to the reactivation of herpes simplex virus.

And varicella zoster virus, reactivation of the VSV at the facial nerve leads to RHS type 2, herpes zoster auticus. Here's another study, Ramsey Hunt syndrome following MRNA SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Ramsey Hunt syndrome typically manifests with a vesicular rash on the concha and external auditory canal associated with peripheral facial paralysis. This is caused by reactivation of latent varicella zoster virus within the geniculate ganglion associated with factors that influence immunosuppression, including immunocenticence. And then we have veres.

Let's just look at on veres. We talk about these issues. Here's the open bears. This is the report of vaccine injuries. skyrocketing and I want to point this out. This is 13,997 cases of shingles. Why am I pointing out that there are so many people reporting that there's shingles? In fact, there are tons of studies looking into this issue that the vaccine is somehow causing shingles. We've done shows about this. COVID-19 may increase your risk for shingles. The AARP, adults age 50 and over should look out

for this. This is the Lancet. Herpes, doctor-related hospitalization. after inactivated Coronavac and MRNA vaccination, a self-controlled case series and nested case control study. We estimated that there has been in excess of approximately five and seven cases of hospitalization as a result of herpesoster after every one million doses of COVID vaccinations. So that's the Lancet. That's AARP. So they are obviously raising the flag that we're seeing rises in cases of herpesoster, which is a latent dormant virus in your body.

Now we're talking about mechanism here. This is what this is all about. If we're going to really look at this, again, I'm saying. I'm a doctor, but as a journalist, I understand the mechanism. The mechanism is if you're going to get Ramsey Hunt syndrome, it has to be a virus that attacks, you know, the nerves in your ear and in your face that are causing that issue. What does that?

We know that herpes zoster does that. We also know that the vaccine brings about and seems to allow for herpes zoster infections to take place. Herpes Dostor after COVID vaccination, an international journal of infectious disease. Now, this is the conversation. So we now have a mechanism by which a vaccine could have caused Beaver's Ramsey Hunt syndrome. But, you know, to understand what is the mechanism that would cause that, we've actually covered this on our show again.

These are all reasons. If you haven't been watching all the episodes, go back and take a look at it. This is an article we brought to your attention many, times. Folks, we are now seeing how this could be coming into a realization in the world around us. This was from the UK column, stabilizing the code on Sunday the 12th, September 2021. And yes, we reported on this all the way back then. I think within a week of this paper, it goes on to say, in 2005, Dr. Weissman and Carrico discovered a way to protect foreign MRNA from the body's immune system. That scientific milestone would be key to the advancement of the MRNA vaccines

in 2020. Their key discovery that by modifying the RNA code, modifying the nucleoside uridine, resulted in ablating the innate immune response involved toll-like receptors. Let me show you, can we bring up what that looks like when we modify the uridine? So everywhere where you should have seen a U, they've put this psi symbol. This is the mutation. So there should have been a U every time you see that weird symbol there, but they change the genetic code of the spite protein. In fact, I've been on stage with Dr. Robert Malone a lot, and he's been talking a lot about this. He's saying, look it, the spike protein is deadly, it's dangerous, it causes his blood clots and brain. I mean, all sorts of issues, but there's an even bigger problem.

They didn't just take that spike protein and put it into the vaccine. They put it on steroids. They gave it long life. The entire concept he had when he invented the mRNA technology was that mRNA would be really good for a vaccine. because it gets killed so fast by the immune system. So you don't want things. You don't want foreign DNA and RNA floating around the body too much. It could cause autoimmune disease and other issues.

So he thought, look, this would be genius. He was looking at it for gene therapy, saying let's take MRNA and use it as gene therapy, but it just wouldn't splice in long enough to make a difference. You couldn't make the changes you wanted to because the immune system would attack it too fast. That's when he went light-bulb moment. You know what?

It would be great for. is a vaccination. If we had it go in where it's only there for a moment just long enough for you to create an antibody response, but not too long to make your body go into some autoimmune reaction, then it'd be perfect, then it disappears because the immune system kills it off. That was his genius. Well, these two geniuses that are now taking credit for the vaccine said, no, let's change that. Let's make it so it last. Let's make it so the immune system never attacks it so that it can last for, like for God knows how long in the body, therefore taking the entire reason Malone thought this would be a good idea for a vaccine and turning it on its head and make it probably one of the worst bio-weapons the world will ever see.

Now let's get back to this. How does that simple removal of one letter of code from MRNA achieve that? It does so by affecting toll-like receptors, the alarm signal of the innate immune system. The key toll-like receptors affected are TLR3, 7, and 8. They act as century. whose job is to recognize born invaders by way of their former patterns, a bit like an aircraft spotter in World War II. If the wrong type of shape is recognized in the sky, then alarm bells sound and anti-aircraft fire kicks in. In the case of toll-like receptors, the immune system gets activated.

What if you could bypass those spotters? No alarms, no immune system response, and your payload for an MRNA, as the example, gets through safely. Then your drug vaccine is a much greater chance of working. At that point, the original experiments to discover how to, turn off toll-like receptors, the question should have been asked, but what would be the consequences of switching off that important early warning system? This was the question asked by this article. The answer may be what we're seeing in Justin Bieber. When we see herpesoster reappearing,

and I've talked about this, the toll-like receptors, when we think about, just for those of you that don't understand, herpes zoster is dormant in your body ever since you had the chicken pox. Okay, so it's always there. Your body is keeping it dormant. What's doing that? Probably your Tollac receptors. That's the belief that that's what's monitoring your immune system. So every time a particle pops up that it doesn't like, it goes back and attacks it again. It also attacks the cancer in your body. The Tollac receptors are always looking. It's really simple. They're looking for what is self and what is not self. What is foreign and what is my own body? Anything that is not my own body, the Tollac receptor send out an alarm signal, bring you. in the forces kill this thing dead we have an invader. So cancer, disease, viruses, bacteria, all of that is what the to like receptors job is to do is to look out for it. And when these geniuses made this vaccine, they said, well, those tolect receptors are getting on our way of the vaccine getting all the way to the cells of the body. So let's just turn them off. Let's literally turn off the guardians of our entire immune system. That is the mechanism by which it is possible

that Justin Bieber has a paralyzed face because he got the COVID vaccine. Now are we going to at least argue, well, it's super rare and too bad for Justin Bieber? And then I would point to the other member of his household saying, well, these issues aren't so rare that they're having a 100% disastrous failure rate potentially inside the Bieber home. Now, again, do we know that the vaccines cause either or both of these issues? We do not. But what I'm saying is the probability is there. Both of these issues are listed, are listed as side effects in studies all around the world of the COVID-19 vaccines, which leaves us as journalists to only really try and complete one more part of this job, which is, can we prove that Justin Bieber and Haley Bieber were vaccinated? Well,

we did the best we could. We tried to see if they ever promoted the vaccine and we didn't find any of those videos and maybe if you're out there and you can look deeper, go ahead and supply us with that if you found that. But this is what we did find. What we did find was this article talking about Nikki Minaj. Now, Nikki Minaj reveals she is not attending the 2021 Met Gala due to vaccination requirement. Obviously, this is that big gala where everybody dresses up in crazy clothes, looks completely rich and wears a bunch of jewelry. usually they can't even afford. And the articles, it does appear to be true. It was public that the MetGala 2021 COVID-19 vaccine requirement and mask rules revealed.

You can't get in. The must-have accessory at this year's Met Gala from the Rolling Stone is a vaccine. Why does all this matter? Well, because the cameras did catch Justin and Haley Bieber at the Met Gala. And here they are. So either they had some fake vaccine cards. or somebody snuck them in through the back door, or we can make the assumption that they probably were vaccinated. And when we ask ourselves, how well is that going?

That should be a question every newspaper is asking, not attacking those that are asking the question. And how much of this are we seeing all around the world? We are all starting to see so many articles, people dropping dead, you know, of the spontaneous sudden adult death syndrome we talked about, last week? Or what about the illness? How many of your friends keep getting sick? Or the cancers that are coming back like crazy? People that were, you know, had beat cancer and had it on the run. And now all of a sudden the cancer's back and it's really bad. This article really came to my intention. And I think that it says a lot. Everyone is sick. Illness in 22 has medieval vibes. Bridget Delaney. This is in the Guardian. Is this our new normal? Is this what we're really

going to put up with? When they promised us a new normal and the great reset, is this it? Is it we're all going to be on blood thinners and on medications and trying to do facial exercise to get our faces moving if we live through whatever experience we've gone through? All while pharmaceutical industry sits there raking in money, billions for the vaccine they made, billions for the drugs that will take care of the injuries that their vaccines cause. And for what? For what? I guess. I guess so that we could reduce infections so that we could end this pandemic just and really one of the quarterstones and one of the leaders, the generals of this movement to use vaccines to stop infection, stop transmission, therefore stop this pandemic.

None other than Canada's Justin Trudeau. I mean, this guy has really gone for it. Hook, line, and sinker. And yet, what headline do we see this week? Once again, Justin Trudeau. test positive coronavirus for a second time this year. We've already reported on this. You know for a fact that the vaccine is now making people more vulnerable to being infected. In fact, this was something we pointed out long before COVID with a pertussis vaccine. This is one of the side effects of vaccines. It's called original antigenic sin, where you are vaccinated with a singular specific set of antibodies that are only looking.

and I've done my football analogy on this. Go back and check that out. But where your body is only looking for a specific version of this virus, and if it's mutated at all, it doesn't recognize it. So you just keep getting sick over and over again. So Justin Trudeau is over there, taking away the rights of citizens, trying to stop bank accounts on people questioning

whether or not they should vaccinate and supporting things like truckers that are standing up for their rights to keep their jobs. And meanwhile, he is as infectious as it gets. everywhere he goes, he spews COVID on everyone he knows. Why? Because he was vaccinated. All right. Well, in the end, this is the full story as it is starting to enroll. I will tell you, as we've been looking at this news this week, I keep saying to myself, we have been putting out a dire prediction by several different scientists, including here at Van Den Bosch, but also there's Dr. Robert

Malone. There's Michael Yeedon, who is the ex-Fizer vice president in immunology. All of them, warning of side effects of these vaccinations. And I don't know about you, and maybe it's just me, and maybe it is true that social media has somehow just sort of got us in our own little thought bubble, but it does seem like more and more people are getting sick. More and more people are dying in their sleep. And we only have to continue to look at the all-cause mortality in America, in Germany, in Israel, all around the world to start recognizing.

that something is afoot. To me, it is the destruction of confidence in the science that is being done by our regulatory agencies and our governments, the destruction of our faith in government, the destruction in our faith in doctors, the destruction in our faith in hospitals, and certainly the destruction in our faith in vaccines.

Is this our fault, or has somebody made a grave error? Maybe it's time for them to get transparent step up and tell the truth before all is lost. All right. I have a huge show coming up. A real bucket list interview coming up later on in the show. I'm going to get the opportunity to talk to Matthias Desmond, who has brought us the concept of mass formation.

He also the author of the Psychology of Totalitarianism. I'm really looking forward to this. If you haven't seen any of interviews, then get ready. This is going to be awesome. But first, it's time for it. Jackson Report. All right Jeffrey, what do you have for this? Jeffrey. Oh, wait, a second. That's right, I forgot. Jeffrey's on his honeymoon. That's right. Jeffrey got married over the weekend. It was a beautiful ceremony in Cape Cod. I was honored to be invited to this beautiful wedding.

Jeffrey and Susan. It was lovely, a wonderful afternoon. The weather was perfect. And I'm sure there's going to be a lot of broken hearts out there, all of you that were, you know, pining over Jeffrey. I know he's a good-looking guy. He has a beautiful bride, and he's now off the table. But that's all right. You can come and love up on him whenever you find him out in public. I'm sure he won't mind. But Jeffrey, I hope you're having an amazing honeymoon. I hope you are not watching this show right now. And I hope that your cell phone is buried somewhere in your luggage. But we're missing you this week. And so because he's not here and the news is just not the same without Jeffrey, I'm going to keep it brief this week and just hit a couple of the major points.

One of the big ones is Fauci's got COVID. Dr. Anthony Fauci tests positive for COVID. So there it is. The man that told us the vaccine would be 90% effective. It would end this pandemic. And then we should have vaccine passports in order to track everybody, make sure they got this life-saving process. product so that we could stop the virus in his tracks is now got COVID himself. So he's wrong

on masks. He was wrong on the vaccine. He was wrong on lockdowns. This is the world's greatest failure. In fact, I think he's the highest paid government failure the world has ever seen. Proving that once again, so Trudeau, Fauci both laid up two of the masterminds of this insane experience that we've been going through. It's ironic. But in fact, it's, I'm Obvious. We knew it would happen. I knew it would happen. I knew the vaccine didn't work. Not because I'm a genius, because all the scientists I work with and all the ones that have been on this show have been telling us it's not going to work. We saw it in the data as soon as there was an emergency use authorization being attempted, jumping out of trials that would have shown you it wasn't effective had they gone on for a few more weeks. But that couldn't happen. Pharma couldn't allow that. There was tens of billions of dollars to be made.

and Fauci was there to make sure they made those tens of billions of dollars. So he would get tens of billions of dollars to buy more bad science for the entire world. So the news is today that the man that's been buying bad science for the entire world is now a victim of his own bad science. And that is, I guess, in some ways, beautiful. All right, Tony Fauci, I love you. You know, I'm going to see you one of these days, probably behind bars if it all works out the right way. Moving on, though, when you think about this, we talked about just last week when Bill Gates said, you know, why track people if there's breakthrough cases in the vaccine? Absolutely. Which is why, in many ways, I think since Fauci and everybody, a certain point you're going to recognize the vaccine is not doing anything.

Everyone seems to be infected. We've already talked about how in some ways we're at very high infection levels over most of this country. So what are we going to do? What is learning to live with it if we don't actually learn to live with it? So we're learning to live with it and we're learning to travel with it. More awesome breaking news, and here's what it looked like on your television. Major news for international travel. A big change is coming for travelers entering the U.S.

International travel is about to be easier and less stressful. The CDC is lifting its COVID-19 negative test requirement for travelers entering the U.S. The move will go into effect at midnight on Sunday. Previously, flyers had to show a negative coronavirus test no more than one day before flying into the U.S. And this applied to all traveling no matter their vaccination status or citizenship. But with higher vaccination rates and less severe cases, the airline industry has lobbied to lift the requirement that has been in place for the last 17 months. The TSA now regularly screening more than 2 million people a day. And it expects to screen 3 million at some point this summer.

The Biden administration will reevaluate the need for this requirement every 90 days and reinstated if necessary. All right. Well, that's obviously good news. With July 4th, just around the corner, maybe you actually can decide to go on down to Mexico and not worry about having to be tested before you come back into America. And here it is.

CDC Residence Order requiring negative pre-departure COVID-19 tests prior to flight to the U.S. And this is CNN. U.S. will end COVID-19 testing requirement for air travelers entering the country. Oh, happy day. We are back to traveling and back to life as normal. How long will it last in this crazy world?

God only knows. And when we think about those voices that have made this difference, that have really brought truth to the science, brought truth to the medicine, I can't think of a greater voice than Dr. Peter McCullough. And I have breaking news right now. He sent over a letter that he just received from the American Board of Internal Medicine. And it reads as follows, dear Dr. McCullough, diplomats of the American Board of Internal Medicine are a community of physicians who commit to be guided by evidence-based medicine, ABIM grant certification. based on the judgment of expert peers who are familiar with the literature and medical practice. Our community holds us accountable for ensuring our standards are met. You are currently certified

by ABIM. ABIM has learned that you have made numerous, widely reported in disseminated public statements about the purported dangers of or lack of justification for COVID vaccines. And let me just jump to the point of this letter. While ABIM recognized the importance of legitimate scientific debate, physicians have an ethical and professional responsibility to provide information that is factual, scientifically grounded, and consensus-driven. Providing false or inaccurate information to patients or the public is unprofessional and unethical and violates the trust that the profession of medicine and the public have an ABIM board certification. Therefore, such contact constitutes grounds for disciplinary sanctions. Obviously, this is a letter warning Dr. Peter McCullough

that he is now under some sort of investigation. I'm joined right now by Dr. McCullough. obviously these aren't the best of circumstances to be talking to you but I won't say that I'm surprised we live in a world of censorship we've all been censorship censored online social media platforms and we have seen other doctors that are being investigated for speaking their truth and you know you've obviously come on the show and brought a lot of truth so what's going through your mind Tell me about what this is about today for you. No, I'm board certified by the American Board of Internal Medicine continuously since 1991, both as an internist and later on as a cardiologist.

I've poured thousands of dollars into that organization in countless years of my life, as well as endless testing. I have met every standard of that organization to claim board certification by contract. I'm an established expert in my field. I'm the most widely published person on heart-kidney interactions in the world in history. And I've been relied upon by American medicine and medicine worldwide for my scientific inferences.

Now in the last two years in COVID-19, I have provided scholarship. I have 56 peer-reviewed publications in the literature in the author block, work with collaborative groups, brought the world early treatment protocols, and I've been a careful, analysis physician, really a careful news commentator on vaccine, safety, and efficacy. I was shocked to receive this letter. I have responded in a response document that's nearly two dozen pages long.

Every statement that I've made is carefully cited and sourced with the data, just like you do on the highway. And now Senator Johnson has put out a public call for an open discussion with the American Board of Internal Medicine. I've got that letter right here. This is from Senator Johnson's office. This is awesome. Dear Dr. Barron, I'm in receipt of your letter to Dr. Peter McCullough dated May 26, 2022, in which the American Board of Internal Medicine provided notice that the ABIM's credentials and certification committee will hold a meeting to determine whether to recommend any disciplinary sanction against Dr. Peter McCullough. In your letter, you cite a number of evidence-based public opinions Dr. Peter McCullough made regarding COVID-19, natural and herd immunity,

asymptomatic spread and COVID-19 vaccination policy. As you are aware, Dr. McCullough provided testimony before the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs on November 19, 2020, and again on January 24, 2022, during a roundtable event I held in Washington, D.C., titled COVID-19 A Second Opinion. He goes on to talk about how important it is to have a debate, and now he is demanding that a debate happened between you and this board. It is well-past time for the public to hear from many sides regarding COVID-19 in a public forum. The purpose of this letter is to invite you, members of your credentials and certification committee, and any other medical expert of your choosing to come to Washington and engage in an open and honest

interchange regarding all aspects of COVID-19 without the threat of reprisal by the ABIM or any other organization. First of all, I just want, you know, to have Senator Johnson stepping up like this is so important. Hopefully many more senators will sign on to this demand. It is well past time. I could not agree more. This debate needs to happen. They have gone on. And when I think about, when I think about this, you know, there are things like, for instance, one of the statements you made that, you know, that natural immunity is long lasting. We all saw that be affected by Amacron a little bit. I remember even you reached out to Joe Rogan and said through Dr. Malone, please let him know that the science has now shipped on that. We have a new variant. What you were saying was true

up in that point, but as all scientists know, the science changes, and you immediately change that perspective. On the other hand, I could point to their statements about the vaccine being 95% effective, how it was going to end this pandemic, none of which ended up being true. We're dropping below 50% efficacy. We're having negative efficacy around the world, all sorts of issues, yet they are not being held accountable. When you think about this double standard, what is it that needs to take place that we can get back to being honest about how science should be taking place. Well, Del, you and I know we have been on the record from the beginning. And none of these members of these various boards and organizations have been publicly on the record regarding the presumption

of vaccine safety and efficacy. And then the science regarding the pandemic. Now is the time to all come out. Let's get around a round table. Let's exchange information. without threats, pressure, or threat of reprisal, and let's get the information out to America. You know, I think what we need to do is that I'm just like, because this is happening on the fly, you just reached out to us. I really think we all need to start reaching out to our senators, to our, you know, congressional representatives.

I think forward this letter, say, I support this, I want this debate, this type of witch hunting of good doctors that are simply sharing a different perspective in a world where even the CDC is admitting the science is gray. that it is not some black and white situation. We're trying to find our way through it. We can't have this happening. Everybody, do your part.

Reach out and just say this letter, you know, from Senator Johnson, I want you to sign on to it. I want you to agree and demand that this debate take place. I know that you're seeing patience right now, and so you just took this moment. Any last words before you go running off about this situation? Scientific discourse is critical to medical advancement. This is far more than just my job.

case or other doctors in my circles, this is about the advancement of science. If we do not cut out censorship, if we do not nip this in the buddell, we're in trouble. I agree. It's really, really scary to think that you can have captured organizations, captured regulatory agencies that are pushing one narrative that seems to benefit, you know, the side of the industry versus, you know, shutting down any commentary from professionals that are siding with citizens and the issues that they're seeing out there. Peter McCullough, we are going to stand behind you on this if you need support legally or any other thing from us, the informed consent action network, which is the nonprofit that makes this show

possible. We stand behind you 100 percent and we will make sure to get the word out there. And until then, and while all this is going on, our prayers are with you. I want to thank you for taking the time to join us and share this story with us. Thank you. All right. Senator Johnson wrote that brilliant letter to support Dr. McCullough, which is so important now that we see and we and by the way support the politicians that are supporting our doctors. That is my honor and pleasure to be joined now by Senator Ron Johnson. Senator Johnson, first of all, I want to thank you for writing a letter for supporting

Dr. McCullough the way that you have. But when he reached out to you and you heard about this, what were your first thoughts? Well, first of all, Dale, it's great to be on your show and thank you for everything you've been doing in terms of providing the truth to people regarding COVID and the vaccines. I mean, first of all, I was outraged. This little star chamber that the American Board of Internal Medicine is going to conduct against Dr. McCulloch is just outrageous. I'm reading the letter providing Dr. McCulloch notice of this star chamber. And they're listing all these statements that he's made that apparently they view as misinformation. Yeah, I'm looking, you're going to go up. I think that's the truth. I think that's the truth. I think that's the truth. I think that's the truth. It's interesting. The second page, they let him know that you may make a written submission for the CCC's consideration connection with this matter. And then they go on to say, please be advised that failure to respond timely to this notice may be considered unprofessional and weight against you. I mean, this literally is a star chamber. And so what I want to do is in support of Dr. McCulloch, is write a letter to.

to Dr. Richard Barron, the CEO and the president of this organization, and just let them know that I'm aware of it. The American public is now aware of this proceeding, and that what I've actually done is I've invited Dr. Barron and any people he'd like to bring with them, other medical professionals, to come to Washington, D.C., and engage in a dialogue with people like Dr. McCulloch and Dr. Corey and Dr. Merrick and Dr. Cole,

and all the people you've had on your show, show that the people that I've had that's testified before my committee or participate in some of my events. I've done, I did an event in November of 2021 again, the COVID-19 second opinion event in January 24th of 2022. I invited all the agency heads or represented from those agencies, the CEOs of the drug companies. They would never show up. Do they respond at all? I mean, you know, we see you. You're a senator. You have some standing. You're having these hearings. I mean, this Fauci, Francis Collins, like, does anybody respond at all from the other side? No, they don't even, you know, they don't send a regrets or anything. I've written, I think,

up to, I'm up to 38 oversight letters to the various health agencies. Pretty well laying the groundwork that should I be here for another term? I'd be hopefully chairman of the Perma Subvocating investigation. I'm just laying the groundwork for investigations into all things COVID, all things, vaccines, all things in terms of sabotage of early treatment. But no, I've written 38 oversight letters. I've basically gotten squat. Wow. It's the NIH, the CDC, the FDA, now the Department's Defense on the D-Med system.

Listen, it's a deep state. The deep state does not give up its secrets very easily. By the way, we're down to, we did request, remember the 4,000 emails from Fauci that were FOIAed. Yeah. We looked at those. We requested 400 of them. We focused on it.

400 unredacted. HHS has allowed us so far to read them in a reading room, 50 pages at a time. We've read 350 pages. We're down to the last 50. They will not give those last 50 pages up to us. Oh, man. There must be pretty inclusive information in those last 50 pages. I can't wait to, I mean, obviously it's so much, it's hard work.

We work with Attorney Aaron Siri. to foyer these things. I know that you're acquainted with him also. It's hard to get through to the truth when they start really pushing back. You know, there must be something good there. You know, let me just ask you a question. You may or may not know the answer to this, but when we look at medical boards like this, right, I mean, on one hand, I find as conservatives, you know, that are out there, we don't want to influence a business and tell them what to do or how to run their business. But when it comes to a medical board, there is some government interaction, right? I mean, we, because one of my things is, why don't we just start new medical

boards? Why don't we just start a new medical board, like, you know, the medical board of real science or, you know, of the medical board of the scientific method? But these medical boards wield a lot of power, and they use a lot of threats. And they are obviously, whether or not they believe what they're saying, they're coerced by a higher power, all the money from pharma that pours into these boards and affects these universities. You know, is there any space in the, in the political system in the government to put pressure. If you had, let's say, a majority of senators that all thought this was the wrong thing to do, is there anything a government can do about a medical board? I think just ask for transparency, and that's what I'm doing here. Yeah. If they have

nothing to hide, don't hide it. If you're proud of what you're going to be doing to a wonderful person, Dr. Peter McCulloch, who is, let's face it, they're trying to destroy people like Dr. McCulloch and Dr. and the people who have had the courage and compassion first to treat COVID patients and then to speak out to speak the truth are there being the the COVID cartel is trying to destroy these individuals at least they can do it in the light of day and that's really my attempt here is listen if you're going to try and destroy him through the star chamber through your American Board of Internal Medicine do it out in the open let the public see exactly what you're going to do you know listen both of us we're accused all the time. They use the pejorative, spreading misinformation, right? Yeah. Yeah. I always ask, I'm sure you do, well, show me what I'm saying that isn't true. Right. Because I don't want to say things that are inaccurate. You know, if I'm wrong, I will correct it immediately. Okay, I'll apologize for being wrong. So far, I have never been given any information that I've provided that has been untrue. Well, because everything we're doing is backed in data. Now, and one of the things I find problematic about this entire

misinformation discussion and where it's really wrong, even I get fact checked by fact checkers that will say, we found a study that goes against what Dell said. Well, what you found was a study that says something different than the study that I showed. And so there's, you know, differing opinions on the science here, but there's scientific backing, mostly to my position, but every once in while to put up a study, but just because you have a study doesn't mean that mine is misinformation if I'm showing science too. Dr. Peter McCullough is going to be able to point to science and evidence that backs up every point he's made.

Has there been funded science done by pharma that has set out to have a different conclusion and a different result? Absolutely. But unless there is no existence of science anywhere for something you've said and you're just pulling it out of thin air, this concept of misinformation, we've got to eradicate that from our vernacular because it's being used in a very, inappropriate way and is getting to be dangerous. I mean, I feel like what we're seeing with Dr. Peter McCullough, as he said, this is dangerous. If we have doctors that are not allowed to actually

treat the patient in front of them, are not allowed to use their background of understanding, all of the myriad of patients they've treated, all the different nuances they've experienced that lead them to a different decision on that patient, while a board that is being funded by a pharmaceutical industry trying to sell a singular product is going to override that. It's going to a mandate that the hospitals all have to do the same thing. This sort of homogenized, pasteurized, you know, medicine will be the death of us. I mean, it is literally going to be the death of us. If we all have to take remdesivir, even if it doesn't prove to work for most people, simply because that's the, you know, the appropriate science and anything against it is misinformation.

When you got involved in politics, did you ever imagine? I mean, I imagine you got involved because you knew there were problems in the world. But I, I mean, I imagine you got involved because you knew there were problems in the world. I mean, it just went on steroids the minute, you know, you sort of stepped inside the capital there. I mean, just lastly, what's it like to be, you know, in some ways, a lone voice in this incredible insane time? Well, first of all, the pandemic has exposed so many problems. In our society, within our medical establishment, there is no perfect medical information. Every human being is different. Everybody reacts differently to different drugs.

What drives me nuts is when I'm challenged by medical experts. Okay, show me the data. The one that's driving me nuts right now is this sudden adult death syndrome. Oh, my God. I'm reading the articles, you know, written about that and the doctors are baffled. You know, the medical experts are baffled. What could possibly be causing the death of adults just dropping dead? What could it be?

And I'm going, isn't it pretty obvious? I mean, you look at the VAERS report. We're up to 28,714 deaths on the Bayer system. Right. What, did anything change in 2021? Did we do something different in medicine that just might be a possible reason for SADS? But again, the COVID cartel is completely oblivious to it. As I've been saying, they can't afford to be proven wrong.

The body count is way too high. They sabotage early treatment. But Dale, they have the power to make it very difficult to prove them wrong. And that's really the situation we're in. It's why people like Dr. McCulloch need to be supported. Why I wrote that letter? The public has to be made aware of these things. I think the truth has power, but the truth has to get out there.

That's all I'm trying to do. So I'm just trying to convey truth. That's what you're trying to do. That's what Peter McCulloch's trying to do. In the end, I've got to hope the truth can prevail. Absolutely. Well, Senator Ron Johnson, as one of the few politicians, that's actually working in Washington, D.C.

and using taxpayer money appropriately to get something done, I don't want to steal any more of your time. I want to thank you for taking your time to join us today. I want to thank you for being so passionate on this topic and bringing together panels of scientists what we've only been dreaming about coming together over the last years. I've been involved in trying to get more transparency in the science around medical procedures and products.

Your work is outstanding. Your letter, we're going to put it up here, folks. Here's the letter one more time. It will be available to you if you're a member of our newsletter. Get your friends. Just send it to your friends. Say, can you believe this is going on? You know, let's support this.

Reach out. Start talking to your elected officials and saying, we can't have these witch hunts. This is insane. This is a highly decorated doctor. One of the most published scientists, doctors in the world, especially on heart issues and the most published doctor on the COVID pandemic. Senator Ron Johnson, thank you so much.

And we'll continue to watch you. And if you need anything from us at any time, please let us know. Thank you and stay well. Again, my wishes, I just hope these doctors show up. I hope the agency heads. I hope the CEOs of Pfizer and Moderna show up and have the dialogue, have a discussion. If you're so proud of what you've done, get into a dialogue with people like Dr. McCulloch and Corey and Merrick. Agreed.

It's time for the debate. It's time. If you have a winning argument, bring it. Otherwise, shut up. All right. Thank you, Senator Ron Johnson. Have a great day. Be blessed. Well, I mean, these are incredible times where it doesn't matter your background. It doesn't matter your success in treating patients. It's as though none of it seems to mean anything.

All of the evidence, all the science, Dr. McCullough cites me. You've seen him on our show the way he can recite so many different studies. And yet, you know, you wonder, does it even matter? I mean, and what is he up against? Just saying he's spreading misinformation. as I said before, how about the fact that you all said this vaccine was 95% effective? You promised us this vaccine was going to end this pandemic and eradicate the disease. And now you're telling us to live with it.

You promised us we didn't need masks. Then you promised us we did need masks. And now you're saying maybe we don't need masks. I mean, this is all so crazy. It starts to make you feel like you're crazy. And this is what brings up, you know, my next guest. This is a guest that I have been so excited to have. have the opportunity to speak with for a very long time.

We talked about mass formation psychosis before. We talked to Dr. Mark McDonald. But Matthias Desmitt is behind the mass formation discussion out of Belgium. He is written the psychology of totalitarianism, which comes out today actually. So it is my honor and privilege to have him coming up for a sense of what we're talking about.

Here is what it's looked like in your news. Well, the term mass formation psychosis trended over the weekend with so many searches it broke the internet. When people went to search for the term on Google, a couple of strange things happened. Some people saw this odd disclaimer from Google saying the results were changing quickly and that it would take time for results to be added by reliable sources. What does this even mean? I thought when you Googled something, it would bring up sites relating to the topic.

Sounds like they're censoring search results. Well, a few hours later, when people searched for the term, a bunch of sites began to pop up, claiming it was a new far-right buzzword, or one attributed to anti-vaxxers. So what is mass formation psychosis? Well, the term came recently from the Joe Rogan Dr. Robert Malone interview that aired this past Friday. And this leads into this whole issue of mass formation psychosis. There's good modeling studies that probably half a million excess deaths have happened in the

United States through the intentional blockade of early treatment by the U.S. government. but was also heard and explained in more detail during Dr. Peter McCullough's interview with Rogan. We're in what's called a mass formation psychosis. This is very important. I give credit to Dr. Matthias Desmet in the University of Ghent in Belgium. Mass psychosis is when there is a group think that develops that so strong that it leads to something horrific. If all the people who want to speak out against the mainstream narrative, if they would unify and become one, It would be powerful enough to change the direction of the middle group. We should continue to speak out.

That's the most important thing we can do. For any of you out there in the world that have been saying, I feel like I'm walking around an insane asylum or, you know what I mean, the lunatics have taken over the insane asylum, I'm there with you. Matthias Desmond has done some incredible work on the concept of mass formation. my honor and privilege to be joined by him now. So to begin with, there's been some confusion the term, I don't want to get buried here, mass formation psychosis, but you just call it mass formation. Is that correct? Yes, I prefer to call it mass formation. Yes, I never use the term mass formation

psychosis because in my opinion, both from a netical and from an intellectual point of view, it's better to use the term mass formation. Okay. Now, you know, One of my questions is, is mass formation in a term you've come up with or is this an older term in psychology? That's something I haven't understood yet. Is this been around for some time? The term was used from the 19th century onwards by such authors as Gustav LeBond. Freud also used it one time. Elias Kennedy used it.

It was definitely used before I used it. But maybe not in such a systematic way. That's possible. Okay. Now, for my audience out there, I know you've told this story many, many times, but there's so many people that still have not really heard, you know, what mass formation is and how it comes about. Obviously, we're talking about this pandemic in many ways, which is why we're having this conversation.

But take me through, what are the elements, you know, what is, you know, is there a state that a population, obviously this isn't always the world, it can be a continent, it can be, you know, a smaller group of people, but there has to be a set of things taking place, like a climate that makes us vulnerable to this. Is that correct? Yes, exactly, exactly. Mass formation is a specific kind of group formation, which has very specific effects at the level of individual mental functioning. For instance, it tends to make people completely incapable of taking a critical distance of what the group believes in. And in the end, the group starts to believe in the most absurd things, such as, to give one concrete example, during the revolution in Iran, the revolution

of 1979, which was the beginning of a large-scale process of mass formation in Iran, people started to believe that the portrait, the picture of the Ayatollah, the leader of the mass, you could say, was printed on the surface of the moon. And when there was a full moon in the sky, people typically stood certain streets pointing at the moon, showing where exactly they could see the portrait of the Ayatollah. That's one historical example of how absurd the beliefs of a mass can come. So that's one typical characteristic of the phenomenon of mass formation, one typical effect of mass formation on individual mental functioning, but there is more. For instance, people who are in the grip of a mass formation typically become willing to self-sacrifice. It is as if they are no longer

aware of their own personal egoistic interests. And this goes very far as well. People become radically aware to sacrifice everything that was important to them before the mass formation started. And a third characteristic that is that extremely important is that people who are in the grip of mass formation typically become radically intolerant for dissonant voices. And in the end, they tend to stigmatize the people. stigmatize the people that do not go along with them, give them a sign, and then start to commit cruelties towards them, and in the end, try to eliminate or destroy them. And even more important or more characteristic, they do so as if it is an ethical duty to do that, to destroy these other people.

And they even become radically aggressive and intolerant towards the people. they used to love very much before the transformation. I will give a concrete example again. Two months ago, I was talking to this woman of Iran, Shoray Fishtali, this conversation is available on the internet, who lived in Iran during the revolution. And she has seen with her own eyes how a mother reported her son to the state

and hung the rope around his neck just before he was hung, and how she claimed to be a heroine for doing so. That's one concrete example, but it's typical for all mass formations, whether we are talking about the Crusades, or about the witch hunts, or about the French Revolution, or about the rise of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, all typical examples, historical examples of mass formation. Every time we see this very typical characteristic that in the end, people start to commit cruelties to everyone, even the people they loved very much before the mass formation, and they do so as if it is an ethical duty to do so.

That's the last stage of mass formation, and it is extremely important to understand the mechanism, the psychological mechanism of mass formation, because if you understand it, you know what we have to do to avoid the process of mass formation, going to this ultimate, terrible, stage. And that's, well, of course, I've been explaining this mechanism of mass formation.

It's indeed, as you already suggested, the population has to be in a specific psychological state. Yeah, tell me about that. Tell me about like what makes us vulnerable as a society, you know, to this type. And you're talking about this isn't just, this transcends education levels, right? You're talking about essentially, you know, the majority of humanity are vulnerable to being, taking part in this. I mean, I used to always argue with my friends growing up that anybody could be a Nazi if you were in the right circumstances and socialized correctly. I think for the most part, most of us, it's very rare that we have some sort of moral code or super critical thinking that breaks us apart from it. But before we get into what makes it, what is the, what has to be

the climate? What has to, what makes us vulnerable to this type of movement? Yes. Well, first and for all, some people are resilient. Some people do not fall prey to mass formation, but it's very hard to know why and which people do not fall prey to it. But as you said, intelligence doesn't protect you from mass formation, not at all. And the level of education is even a counter indication. The higher the level of education, the more vulnerable for mass formation that has been observed in the 19th century and 20th century. And we see it again, the level of education, the more vulnerable for mass formation that has been observed in the 19th century and we see it again. again now. So, but indeed, the most important thing is that, well, a population has to be in a very specific mental state in order for large-scale mass formation to emerge. And the most crucial condition for large-scale mass formation is that many people have to be disconnected from their natural and their social environment. So many people have to feel lonely, have to feel atomized, as Hannah Arendt called it. And what you could see, for instance, was that just before the corona crisis, the number of lonely people really peaked in Western society and even worldwide. Over 30% of the people worldwide reported in a Gallup World Poll that they didn't have one meaningful relationship and that they only connected to others through the internet. That gives you an ID of the extent of the problem.

In the UK, Theresa May appointed a Minister of Loneliness. And in the US, the US Sergeant General concluded that there was a loneliness epidemic. That was around 2017 and the problem only became worse since then. So that's the most crucial condition is this social isolation of a substantial part of the population. And then the second condition actually follows from the first one. Once people feel disconnected, they will typically start to be confronted with a lack of purpose and meaning in life. And that's just because human beings are social beings. And they have the feeling that their life makes sense if they see that they have an effect on the other.

So if the relationship with the other impoverishes, if there is no strong social bond anymore, people will typically start to suffer or to be confronted with lack of meaning making in life. So that's the second condition and also that condition was really fulfilled just before the corona crisis. Over 60% of the people worldwide claimed that they considered their own job to be a bullshit job. That means a job which they couldn't think of for whom it might mean something or to what it could. So there were extremely high figures. Only 15% of the people worldwide considered their own job to be meaningful. Wow.

Wow. So they're living it. They're feeling lonely. They're living what they consider to be a meaningless life. And so those are two of the conditions, right? What else is? Exactly. And the third condition, the third and the fourth condition are also crucial. The third condition is that when people or in the state of disconnectedness and lack of meaning making, they will typically be confronted with so-called free floating or freely floating anxiety, frustration and aggression. That means that a kind of anxiety, a kind of frustration and aggression that is not connected to a mental representation, or to put it in plain terms, a kind of anxiety in which people don't know what they feel anxious for, a kind of frustration and aggression in which people don't know what they feel frustrated and aggressive for. And this is an extremely aversive mental state, because if you feel anxious and you don't know what you feel anxious for, you feel completely out of control. You feel as if you cannot control your anxiety just because you don't know what you're anxious for.

And under these conditions, if a population, if these conditions are fulfilled in a population, something very typical might happen. If under these conditions, a narrative is distributed through the mass media indicating an object of anxiety and at the same time providing a strategy to deal with the object of anxiety, then all this free-floating anxiety in society might connect to the object of anxiety provided in the narrative,

and there might be a huge willingness to participate in the strategy to deal with the object of anxiety. The reason why is clear. If people can connect their anxiety to an object and participate in a strategy to deal with this object, they feel in control again. And it doesn't matter then whether this object of anxiety. anxiety is the true object of their anxiety or not. That is the first step of every major phenomenon of mass formation. In the Crusades, the object of anxiety was the Muslims and the witch hunts, the object of anxiety was the witches.

And during the French Revolution, it was the the Ancien regime. In the Soviet Union, it was the aristocracy. In the Nazi Germany, it was the Jews. And now in the corona crisis, it was the coronavirus and all the people that refused to go along. in the with the battle to fight the coronavirus. Right. So the first step of mass formation is always the coupling, the connection of the free-floating anxiety to one object,

which makes that people become very focused. All the attention is directed at one very small aspect of reality from then on. And the rest of reality disappears into darkness. And the second step is even more important. Because so many people at the same time, participate in the strategy to deal with the object of anxiety, people have the feeling that they are connected again. They don't feel lonely anymore.

They fight a collective heroic battle with an enemy, feel connected again, and we could say, okay, and what's the problem then? People felt lonely, now they feel connected again. Well, there is a huge problem, because this new connection, this new group, this mass that emerges in the society is not formed because individuals connect to each other. It's formed because every individual separately connects to the collective.

That means that in a mass, people are typically very enthusiastic and full of solidarity. But the solidarity is not a solidarity with other individuals. It's a solidarity between an individual and the collective. And even the longer the mass formation lasts, the more all the psychological energy, all the love and solidarity, is sucked away from the bonds between individuals and all injected and invested in the bond between the individual and the collective. And that explains, of course, why in the end people show a radical lack of solidarity with each other and a huge solidarity with the collective. And as a consequence, they are willing to report everyone, even their loved ones, to, to the collective. Wow.

And that's typically what happened during the corona crisis. We were all full of solid, or most people were full of solidarity. And at the same time, they accepted that when someone got an accident on the street, they were no longer allowed to help that person. That was, it was stipulated like that on the websites of the Dutch, the Holland government, the European government and probably also on the website of the US government. In the same vein, people accepted that if their parents were dying, if their father and mother was dying, they were no longer allowed to visit them anymore.

That was the kind of solidarity that emerged in the corona crisis and that emerges in every mass formation and in every totalitarian state, which is usually a consequence of mass, always a consequence of mass formation. That's what I described in my book, the psychology of totalitarianism. The consequence of mass formation is that in the end, people end up in a radically paranoid atmosphere. Wow. I mean, when I think about the cycle of that, when you really aren't connecting, you are fulfilling what you think is a connection, but has no connection to somebody. It's actually robbing you of that. It's the antithesis of that. You sit more and more isolated, but a part of, you know, a connected ideal and ideology, it's robbing you of that connection, which seems like it would make you even more desperately involved, you know, sort of like a drug that you're trying to get fulfilled by by that whole, that chasm just. gets deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and you get more, I would guess, you know, ferociously involved with this mission. So quickly, when you look at mass formations, I mean, I've been saying

we've seen world wars, we call world wars one nation against another, you know, things like that. In this scenario, mass media and government regulatory agencies in almost every nation of the world took part in this. Is this the largest mass formation event in the history of the world? That's how I see it. Is there another example you can give where this collectively, we all jumped on, at least those that believed in it, got involved with a singular thought all the way around the world, a singular ideology to stop this virus. Has that happened before? Never. This is, this mass formation cannot be compared to any mass formation before. For several reasons. The size, it's a worldwide mass formation and also maybe even more important.

The modern masses are different from ancient masses because of one very important factor. Modern masses are so-called lonely masses. That's something that I learned from Jacques Elou, who wrote a wonderful book on propaganda. And he said that the most important difference between the modern masses and the ancient masses is exactly that the modern masses are lonely masses, that means masses that form without the individuals who are in the mass, without these individuals don't physically meet. They are all isolated in their own homes. They all share the same narratives, they all share the same beliefs, they all share the same myths because these myths, narratives, beliefs, are distributed through the mass media. So the modern masses can only exist through the mass media mass media are crucial and the modern masses these lonely masses are much much

more vulnerable for propaganda and indoctrination of the ancient masses just because in an isolated state people are less resilient to the infusion of ideas from outside so the lonely masses it's crucial we understand what's happening so normally it normally I imagine, and I think about this, there was never a stadium filled with people going, stop the virus, stop the virus, like we would see around Hitler, the giant masses that were involved, coming together, you know, pamphlets being handed out. An interaction is what you're saying in those masses. In this, we all sat by ourselves in our homes being fed information either via social media

or our television set, coming to our conclusions, but never having the moment to say, John, do you think this is crazy? Like there was no, no physical connection in it. It's totally lonely. That's really interesting. Indeed. It was a lonely mass. And that makes the effect of the mass formation even more powerful.

Mass formation is identical to hypnosis. It's exactly the same process. In hypnosis and a classical hypnosis, there is someone who withdraws the attention of someone else from the environment and focuses all the attention on one small, aspect of reality. For instance, you often see the hypnotist moving with his hands like this and then focusing all the attention on one small point of reality. And once the attention is coupled to this one small aspect of reality, all the rest of reality disappears in the darkness.

It seems as if it doesn't exist anymore. And this mechanism is extremely powerful. For instance, a simple, elementary, hypnotic procedure is sufficient to focus the attention to focus the attention of someone, so in one aspect of reality that the person doesn't notice anymore that a surgeon is cutting in his flesh. I've seen this with my own eyes, how a professor hypnotized someone in a hospital, and how a surgeon, a simple hypnotic procedure, and how a surgeon could cut through the skin, through the flesh, even cut straight through the breastbone to perform an open heart operation. That's the strength of the phenomenon of hypnosis, the strength of this mechanism of the focusing of attention on one point. And that's exactly what happens in a mass formation.

In a mass formation, there is first this stage of disconnection from the environment, which can take a few decades, a few years. It doesn't matter. And once all the psychological energy is freely floating in the mental atmosphere, once we have this free-floating anxiety, frustration and aggression, there suddenly there is this narrative distributed through the mass media focusing all the anxiety, all the frustration, all the aggression on this one point, the virus, the antifaxos, the Jews, the aristocracy, it doesn't matter whom. And then once all the attention is focused at that point,

people are not aware anymore of all the rest of reality. And you can literally take everything away of them. They won't notice it. You can literally, the corona measures can make as, can claim, as many victims as they want, people will only see the victims of the virus. In the beginning of the corona crisis, I try to tell people time and time again, okay, the virus might claim a certain number of victims, but the corona measures probably will claim much more victims.

And no matter how much, I try to show people papers all calculating that the number of victims of the measures would probably be higher than the number of victims claimed by the virus they didn't want to see they just told me things like okay and what will you do then you will just let these people die who suffer from corona i said no what will you do but you let all these children starve in that in developing countries as a consequence of the lockdowns and people stop talking to me they didn't want to hear it then they manifest it something that is typical for mass formation a radical intolerance for dissonant voices and that's the exact that's a problem There are several aspects. I explained them in detail in my book, which make that people in the mass formation are just not sensitive anymore to rational counter-argumentations, no matter how well, how good they are these counter-rational argumentations.

People in a mass won't listen. They usually won't wake up, even not when confronted with the most solid arguments against their narrative. But, and that's important, that doesn't mean that there's nothing we can do. We definitely can do something. When we look at that, you know, when I look at, you know, these measures, first of all, you know, we've had so many discussions on our show, you know, you had ivermectin, you had hydroxychloroquine, you had studies showing that these products look like they were working. You're having success. Yet the narrative where these things don't work, the vaccine is going to be our only way through.

The only way we could get to the vaccine, we've got to make sure. that enough of us don't die, you all have to wear a mask. And as you pointed out, it really didn't matter how many mask studies you showed. I brought on specialists from OSHA who fit masks on people saying the mask is not designed to stop this virus. It never will. It never can. And there's detrimental effects. Now, our audience did grow, but obviously the mask chose a different perspective. My question is, how much does it work better if it's sensible? Because this all seemed so great. Like it's, there was, there was no sense to it. That you had Fauci saying the mask didn't work and then he said they did. And we all forgot that he said they didn't. And that didn't seem

to matter. We studied that we said that the, you know, wearing it around like I'm afraid of the air. It just seems so unreasonable. Does, does reasonability get in the way of mass formation or is it Is it part of it just the most ridiculous thing they can ask you? You'll do it? It just doesn't matter to someone in mass formation, whether the narrative that leads to the mass formation is correct or blatantly wrong or utterly absurd. That doesn't matter.

People buy into the narrative, not because they think it's right or correct or something. They buy into the narrative because it leads to this new social bond. That's why they buy into the narrative. For the same reason as supporters in a football stadium, all sing the same thing. sing the same song, not because they think this is the most beautiful song in the world, or because the song is right or correct or something. They sing it because it connects them to each

other. And that's why people go along with a narrative of a transformation. And you could even say more. And this was observed by most people, most founding fathers of propaganda. You could even see more. It's a very good thing if propaganda is not consistent, if it's inconsistent. You can perfectly We also, Hannah Arendt, I don't know if you're familiar with her work, she wrote this wonderful book, The Origins of Totalitarianism, totalitarianism, which is a kind of state which is based on mass formation and which also is what my book is all about, because I think we are witnessing the emergence of a new totalitarianism, a technocratic totalitarianism. But Hannah Arendt also observed already that she said, the leaders of the masses based their

propaganda on the very correct psychological assumption that it is perfectly possible to lie to the population time and time again and it might perfectly be the case that every day it becomes clear that what you said the day before was a lie people will still believe the lie of today and they will go along with it as if it is the truth so and i could give you several other examples people that's something that is very striking and very, very remarkable that people in the mass formation just don't care whether it is true or not what they believe in. And even more, the more absurd the narrative is that leads to the mass formation, the more absurd the narrative is that is articulated by the leaders of the masses, the more enthusiastic they will be. And it is just the simple reason is, it's that what I explained in

chapter 9 of my book, the simple reason is that the narrative and the measures, for instance the because all narratives that lead to mass formation has to be associated with a certain action, certain behavior, concrete behavior. Well, the measures, the more the measures become absurd, the more they fulfill their function as a ritual. And the ritual is exactly a kind of behavior that is absurd from a pragmatic point of view, and that demands a sacrifice of the individual. a sacrifice through which the individual shows that its own individual interests are less important than the collective interest. That's ritualistic behavior and that's why people in a mass are really in need of ritualistic behavior. They felt disconnected, they felt lonely, they felt this extreme

lack of meaning-making. They felt that their life was without sense and now they found this new purpose. they found something that is worth living for and that is worth dying for and through the participation in absurd rituals unconsciously they satisfy this enormous need that all human beings have to to transcend their own individual lives but the problem of mass formation is that it is so extreme it is an extreme collectivism life is good and a society is fruitful if there's there is a balance between individualism and collectivism. And that's what is completely disturbed in a process of mass formation. We see this extreme collectivism in which people participate in rituals

without being aware that they participate in rituals. And with an absurd willingness to sacrifice everything, their wealth, their health, the future of their children, their lives of their children, everything in order to belong to that mentally and mentally, intoxicating collective experience that mass formation is. I mean, it's so fascinating when you say it. I just think about, you know, ritual. When I think about, you know, people that lash themselves, you know,

as that's getting them closer to God, you know, the more, you know, intense it is, the more I'm committing to my goal to deliver this connection, to deliver my focus. And, you know, when you think about when you say hypnosis, I think it really, I mean, I've been throwing that term away like everyone's hypnotized, but if you really, But if you really take that on, that the hypnosis is the singular thought of stopping the virus. So it doesn't matter of yesterday the terms change or every day the vaccine. Now it's now take three shots, five shots, two masks, whatever it is. We'll keep doing it because to stop doing it would mean to go back to that space of being meaningless,

which has got to be a horrifying place to be, right? We don't want to go back there. So we'll do anything to hold on to what we think is giving us connection. That's what's taking place. right? So it doesn't matter. We're not going to be derailed from our goal. Exactly. That's what happens. But that is true for a rather small part of the population. Only 20 or 30% of the population is really into the process of mass formation, is really in the process of hypnosis, you could say. Okay. Okay. The rest of the population, 60 or 70, 75%,

knows that there is something wrong with the narrative, feels that there is something, something wrong. But they just don't go against the masses because they prefer the comfort of remaining silent. And they think that everybody will, everything will, well, will change if they just remain silent. And there is only a small minority of the people who knows that there is something wrong with the narrative, who really sees what is happening and who also decides to speak out and to go against the masses. And it's this group that is crucial. This group is crucial. is crucial. This group should know that, one, they won't succeed in waking up the masses through rational argumentation. That's impossible. The mechanism is just too strong. But,

and that's crucial, it's not because this group does not succeed through speaking out in waking up the masses, that speech has no effect. Their speech has a huge effect. It constantly disturbs the process of mass formation constantly disrupts it and that make sure the speech of the dissonant voice, the sound of dissonant voice, make sure that the process of mass formation is constantly disturbed and Gustav Lebon, one of the most famous mass psychologists in the world or he wrote his books in the 19th century, mentioned already that if there are people who continue to speak out in a quiet way without really trying to convince the other people, but just fulfilling the ethical duty to speak out as a human being,

that they will make sure that the mass formation does not reach this level in which the masses and their leaders become convinced that it is justified to eliminate and destroy everyone who doesn't go alone with them. By speaking out, by speaking our truth, we have got to hold on to that, because if we don't, there's potential that that mass could just say let's just get rid of that group of people. There's still a humanity in them that we can key into. Now, when you say it's a small group of people that in the opposition side, roughly it was 30% you said are just dedicated to the mass. Then are we talking 15, 20% tend to just rebel against or be critical things or is it less than that?

It depends on the stage of the process of mass formation, But very often it's only 5% or something. Okay. But that's enough. That's enough. That's enough. If these people succeed in forming a group, a group that is not a mass, that's extremely important, because that's the entire challenge, that this small group is also experiencing a lot

of anxiety, a lot of frustration, a lot of aggression. It feels threatened and it might become a mass itself. And in that case, there is a strong polarization, polarization in society, and the small group usually is destroyed in the end, just because you have two groups, two masses, functioning according to the same destructive principles. And usually the small group is destroyed. And after the small group is destroyed, the masses will start to destroy themselves. But the small group should be coming.

I'll be honest with you. That was the question I was going to have in all the work I've been watching you do is, you just answered. But I was going to ask you, is there a benefit to start using some of these tactics from the other side saying why don't we create ritual? Why don't we use things to start enrolling people in a mass? Is it just one mass against another? So you're saying if that's attempted, that that just ends up, you won't get the critical mass side. You'll be outnumbered and you'll create a friction that will end up getting the smaller group eradicated. Yes, we should not form a mass. We should form a

group, a healthy group of people, and which means that a group that is formed because people connect to each other, people develop strong connections with each other in several ways. It can be realized in several ways. And also one major difference between a mass and fruitful group, a humane group, is that this last group, unobliges and accepts that everybody has his own opinion. So in the small group that doesn't go along with the mass, we should avoid to impose one opinion to everyone. Everyone should be capable of looking at things in his own way, of having his own opinion. Everybody should speak in his own way.

And that will be very effective in the end. That will be very effective. That's so important. I've had this conversation all the time when there's arguments from our side, whether you call it vaccine risk awareness or these movements for health free. let's call it, health freedom. They're always getting together and saying we've got to come up with a common slogan, a singular idea, a statement, something we all stand behind. I've kind of been, you know, not as well educated on the matter, but saying I think it's

better that we have different thoughts about why we're having an issue here. You sort of just gave me a deeper understanding of that because what it is that makes us who we are, that makes us critical thinkers and makes us appealing to those that are maybe in that larger group that are still feeling, I feel like there's something wrong, maybe I really want to involve my critical thinking more. If we stop critically thinking and all becomes some homogenized, pasteurized, you know, singular perspective, then there's no appeal there anymore to even be a part of that. So we lose the individual nature and then all is lost. Exactly, exactly. And we don't have to form a group who has the same opinion. You have to form a group

who sticks to the same common principles of humanity. That's the point. We have to, what got lost throughout the last few hundred years was that we started to believe that the human rational mind, rational understanding, should be the cornerstone and the basis of society and of living together. And that's not true. The entire history of science actually showed us that rational knowledge is very limited.

And that what we need, that only principles, principles of ethical principles and the principles of humanity, which can never be articulated in a definitive way, we always have to reinvent them and to re-articulate them, but only these principles can be the real basis of a human living together. And that's what this group, this group that doesn't go along with the masses, will reinvent in the years to come. They will reinvent, they will see,

they will probably be excommunicated to a certain extent, and they will have to stick to their principles, to the principles of humanity in a world that is becoming increasingly inhumane. I explain that in a much more elaborate way in my book, but that's exactly what the new kind of society, the new kind of living together, should move to we should establish a society which recognizes again the central importance of the principles of humanity for human living together rational knowledge in the end is always extremely

irrational irrational and it can never be it is important to be rational but it can never be the cornerstone and the basis of human living together um so let's um let's look at where we're at now then i mean i think i know that we could go on and on and all the of what puts this together. But I want to talk about the moment we find ourselves in now. You know, much of your work has been made famous by great experts like Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Robert Malone, and others around the world. But that was in the middle of this pandemic. We were locked down in many ways. Now some things have happened that I want to ask you about. Because, you know, I'm a, you know, a pathological optimist, if you will, you know, I have all. I have

always fighting a good fight. I will no matter what. I always believe there's a the possibly in the possibility that we're winning. I keep saying we're winning. I feel like we're winning. Our perspective is growing, you know, all around the world, you know, we may be the 5%, but we really seem to be growing. And I think there's proof of that. It's a couple of things that have happened here in America. Just, you know, I don't know if it was a month or two ago, I lose track of time, but when they lifted the mask mandate, when the, when the judge in a, in a courtroom said, you know, the masks, you know, it was not legal to be mandated mask on airplanes. And so they broke that mandate. Immediately, it felt like 70% of the country took their masks off, right? And certainly on

airplanes, now I would say one in 10 maybe is masking. And so in some ways that fits your model, that there was that sort of 60 or 70% that were only going along with it because it was what they were told to do, but had a bad feeling about it. They immediately ripped their masks off. But what happens to that group? You know, we can say that that group is there, but what happens the moment they are told it was a falsehood? It was not real. Doesn't that have the ability to shift the, you know, the power of the mass? If all of a sudden, you know, the curtain is pulled back and you realize it really is just a four and a half foot tall wizard that's been doing this whole thing, does it make it harder for that group of people to be taken back into a mass formation

if they had this moment where that sinking feeling inside of them, which was, you know, I feel wrong about this. This doesn't feel right. And then a court decides it and the country goes along with it. Is it possible that that shifts the numbers perhaps in another direction? I have another example for you. I've been saying that, you know, one of the issues I've dealt with is vaccination long before COVID, that we need to be doing more, you know, proper safety studies and more transparency around this entire idea. And one of the things Bill Gates was really worried about, I consider him to be one of the architects of the insanity we find ourselves in the middle of. I could be right, maybe, I could be wrong, maybe it's someone bigger than him, but that's not the point. He's been

worried that the sort of as he said the collapse of the confidence in the COVID vaccine he's concerned it will collapse the confidence in the vaccine program we have a poll out of Iowa which is a state that we tend to look at to how the country is going to vote on things when we have political decisions to be made so the poll says Iowa in support for non-COVID vaccine requirements in school erodes just 34% of Iowa adults now say all children should be required to receive standard shots unless they have a doctor-signed statement showing they have a medical reason not to be vaccinated. The poll shows. That's down from 59% who supported such a requirement in 2015 when the Iowa poll asked a similar

question about childhood vaccinations. And here's the chart. You know, 34% require all children. The rest represent all these different perspectives, not sure, there's no laws, you know, on and on. So at 34% now of Iowans actually believe in a mandated vaccine program where prior to COVID, that was 69%. So that shows me that in some ways, the minority has now become the majority

in the perspective around one of these ritualistic tools that was used. Doesn't that give you some hope that there is a shift that's happening, maybe a shift that's possible? Yes, I definitely do believe that a shift is possible. But maybe not immediately. Because I think that it's not because people

give a certain answer in a poll, that they will also start to speak out. And that's what we need. More people have to speak out. So I think that there is one problem with mass formation. I'm also very optimistic in the long term, in the longer term. In the short term, I think we will face several difficult and tough years.

But, you know, there is one problem with once a large-scale mass formation emerged in society, they usually follows a second, a third and a fourth one, and so on. Just because of this, I just, a few minutes ago, I explained that the most crucial condition for mass formation is the state of disconnectiveness and loneliness. And then I said that this mass formation seems to reconnect people to each other, to recreate a social bond, but it doesn't. It actually only creates a bond between the individual and the collective. Right. And it destroys the bonds further between the individuals, meaning that after a mass formation,

there is even more people in a disconnected state, an isolated state, than before. And that's what we see now. People are allowed, students are allowed to come back to university now, but they don't show up anymore. Only 5% shows up anymore. People are allowed to go back to their company, to their work, but they don't show up anymore at their work.

They prefer to stay home and work, online. That's why even Musk said that everybody should come or that you would fire them. So around the world we see the same phenomenon. People are allowed to leave their houses again, to go back to work, to go back to university, to go back to social meetings, and they don't do so anymore. That shows the dramatic psychological impact of this first, this large-scale mass formation. And it is exactly this mass formation. That's so dramatic. It creates the conditions for mass formation even more. And once a first mass formation disappears a little bit in a background, usually a second one, emerges immediately. And that's probably what we have seen with the war in Ukraine. We saw exactly the same phenomenon. We saw this fanatic black, white thinking, this common enemy, this, this willingness to self-sacrifice, this intolerance for dissonant voices. We noticed all these same characteristics. And now we will probably see that in a few months, maybe even in a few weeks we don't know, this corona narrative might

lead again to a mass formation. And then the real question is, what will the people? Yes, well, what the real question is then what will the people of the middle group do? I also think that a part of the middle group will switch to our position and we'll start to speak out and say, look, we don't tolerate us anymore. But I think that at the same time, while the critical group, the critical group grows, increases, we will all probably see that the system or those who identify with mainstream discourse become more repressive and more intolerant and more aggressive.

That usually is the case. But that's, that's of in the end, in the end, they will exhaust themselves and destroy themselves, But we just have to make sure that they destroy themselves before they destroy us. And that's why it is so crucial that we continue to speak out because we can see time and time again in history that these mass formations that ultimately lead to a totalitarian state, which always emerges as a kind of diabolic pact between the masses and their leaders and the elite. We see that these systems typically start their destruction campaigns shortly after the dissonant voice stopped to speak out. That happened in 1930 in the Soviet Union and around 1935 in Germany. The resistance chose to go underground to stop speaking out and a few months later within a period of six months the destruction campaign started.

And in other countries, there were numerous mass formations in other countries, numerous totalitarian system that started to emerge in other countries but the resistance refused to shut up and the mass formation didn't go on until the last stage so I cannot I cannot repeat that enough is the central message of my book as well and on the short term we should continue to speak out on the long term yes you have to do something more profound we have to move on to a different new view on men in the world our rationalist view on men in the world is outdated and it should be replaced by a truly enlightened view on men in the world,

which is based on another kind of knowledge than rational knowledge. It's all really important. It's something that I keep saying, we've got to talk to each other. It's been my simple message here from the beginning. The reason we're in this situation is they let us believe that, you know, we should be afraid to talk politics, we should be afraid to talk religion,

don't have those conversations at the dinner table, slowly but surely we've been isolated so that we don't talk, we don't share our perspective, even if we disagree, it's so important to have the conversation. I think that, you know, I hope my audience just heard what you said, that even though we're seeing polls, polls don't change anything if the people stay silent about it. It only changes something if it gets people to start talking. If that group in the middle that is once silent starts to talk, then you really see a change.

Otherwise, all it is is just another intellectual experience feeding into the psychosis or the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, on some level and we're still back to trying to find meaning. My last question to you and I could ask you questions all day, but it comes to in some ways, you know, we get very scientific about this. I'm not going to ask you about your personal spiritual life, but in many ways I wonder there seems to be a death of churches, a death of religion, a death of, you know, these experiences, at least in America, in our society, prayer is disappearing, all these things. Now, whether or not, I'm not going to ask you about whether you believe God exists, but people who believe in God that go to church that have religions get meaning from those things. Do they not? Do we, and I guess my question is, do we become more vulnerable when we let go of these things that perhaps have some of their own rituals to it, but they do give us meaning and they do bring us together to community.

do you know and I know that in Nazi Germany you shut down the church I mean is all of that how much does a spiritual life matter when we think to moving into an evolved society it depends what you're talking about it depends what you're talking about dogmatic institutionalized religion or about the seminal religious experience I believe that the first one dogmatic and institutionalized religion it can be a mass formation in itself sure not the type of mass formation that means that we see now. But the seminal religious experience definitely protects against mass formation. And you can ask me about my personal opinion about that or about my personal position. I have no problem answering that. You know, in my book I explained that the root cause of mass formation

and of authoritarianism, this kind of state that is based on mass formation, ultimately is situated at the level of our rationalist, mechanist, materialist view on man in the world. Since the beginning of the tradition of enlightenment, the beginning of the 16th century, let's say, we started to believe, or a major part of population, started to believe that the universe is a material system, a dead mechanic, a dead machine that function, a set of elementary particles that behaves according to the laws of mechanics and that can be perfectly described in rationalist terms that can be perfectly rationally understood and it is this kind of thinking that is the first step to disconnect people from their environment and i've experienced that in my own life in a very concrete

and tangible way i was really convinced when i was in between 16 and my 35 years old or maybe, well, I was convinced that reality could be understood in a strictly rational way. And it took me until I was 35 years old to start to understand just by starting to understand the mathematical basis of systems theory, actually. I started to understand that this simply wasn't true. It was a revelation for me. It was like I suddenly started to understand that the reality and that what we call the facts, nature around us, that it behaves intrinsically irrational and systems theory shows us in a very nice way.

And that made me, it made it really changed the way in which I existed. Because I think if we are convinced that logical understanding can explain everything, then what we actually do is like we connect the one logical ID to the other. It is as if we built a closed, wall of logical argumentations around us and in this way we truly disconnect from the world around us and as soon as soon we we try to force everything in the categories of our own logical understanding and in this way we don't really see the mystery around us anymore the mystery of life and as soon as you start to become aware of the fact that your logical understanding is very limited and all major scientists concluded that I could give endless examples as soon as you start to understand that

that is as if all these building blocks slide away from each other a little bit there are holes in the wall and the vibration the eternal music of life around you can go through the wall through the holes and make the strings in yourself resonate i literally described it like that in my book and i'm sure that quite literally the human being is a kind of string instrument it's a kind of string instrument that can resonate with the things around us. And that is this kind of knowledge that all scientists or major scientists I'm referring to, whether we are talking about Schrodinger, Bohr, Heisenberg, Max Planck, Lawrence, Mandelbrot, Janos Bolliyei or René Tom, all these scientists concluded that it is this resonating knowledge, this empathically resonating

knowledge that is the knowledge that connects us to the essence of life. And it is that knowledge that also brings us in touch with what I always refer to as the eternal principles, the ethical principles of life, the principles of humanity, and it are these principles. What is crucial for a human being is not in the end, not its rational understanding. What is crucial to a human being is that it has the courage and to stick to these principles of humanity, even when it means that we will lose a lot. I think that is what is crucial to a human being.

We might lose a lot. And if we stick to these principles in the years to come, but at the same time, we will win the only thing that is truly important. Our existence as a human being, And we will prevent in this way that we fall prey to this dehumanizing process that is so typical for every kind of mass formation, for every kind of totalitarianism, and in the end, for the entire tradition of enlightenment, which believed that rational understanding should be the cornerstone of life. Matthias Desmit, you know, so incredible. I knew I would dig this interview. I want to do this again. We're going to have to, I want to get together. I want to have to. I want to have to. I want to get deeper on this, but of course there's not enough time in a day. So I want to thank you for taking time, folks.

This is the book. It comes out today. The Psychology of Totalitarianism by Matthias Desmit. Obviously, you've just got a sense of what it is like to talk to him. This is a must-read book. I'm sure you're going to make it run off the shelves. Matthias, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. And I want to thank you for your work and your optimism.

It can be difficult to have optimism. but you are truly an important voice in this world right now and I want to thank you for continuing to speak and inspire us all to do the same. Likewise though. It was a pleasure to hear it truly and I really appreciate it that you invited me. Thanks. Absolutely take care. Well you know there's so many examples we run into all the time of this sort of mass formation. What if you're caught right in the middle of it? What happens when ones that we imagine if you could catch on video, right when somebody that believes, you know, that they're connecting, they have a connection,

they have a group, they figured it out, and then you ask them a question that actually might just break through. Here is a man on the street interview we saw. Just look at these people's eyes as they battle with the reality and the truth that goes against their mass formation. What's important is bodily autonomy, the same right men have always had. We just want equal rights. The right to govern our own bodies, just like men have always had. It's that simple. Do you support the right for people and not get the COVID vaccine? It's irrelevant. My body, my choice.

You're right. It's not irrelevant. Yeah, but one saves lives. You're right. It's not irrelevant. One of them is going to be in a pandemic state, right? A state of emergency, which we all know laws change during a state of emergency. Do you agree with the statement or the principle of my body, my choice? Yes, absolutely.

Bodily autonomy is a human right. Healthcare is a human right. Access to health care. should not be something that is dictated by the Supreme Court. During the pandemic, did you support people's right to not get the COVID vaccine? It's a difficult conversation. Do you support bodily autonomy in other situations? For example, the COVID vaccine mandates.

We've been mandated to get vaccines for years and years and years and year. So you do support in that situation people not having control of their bodies. That's not having not control of your bodies. Like, I don't understand. Do you think it is important for people to have medical and health control over their own body? Yeah, it's good for them. It's good for everybody. You didn't support the mandates? I do support the mandates, yeah.

Isn't that mandate that people have to get the vaccine so they don't have control over their own body? Vaccinations are good for people. But in that case, you don't have control, right? If there's a mandate? No, they don't have to get it. Biggest... She can't go anywhere or do anything, right? You can't have a job. You don't have a right to a job. Everybody should have a right to do what they want with their bodies.

Do you support the people's right to choose not to get the COVID vaccine? It's really amazing. I mean, I have to tell you, after speaking with Matillas, when you look at it as though everyone is hypnotized, it makes so much more sense. Like, if you walk up to a hypnotized person, someone you could chop off their arm in a surgery and they wouldn't feel it, and you hit them with a direct question. Like, do you not see that this is in diametric opposition to? what you just said, my body, my choice, but you're down with the government forcibly injecting with a product. And by the way, they don't just, it's not like they glaze over. You see it's like a glitch. Like, that's what's going on inside of them. Like they know. They can't just say yes. They're like, that's, well, I'm just not going there. I'm just not going there. Let me walk away.

Let me just leave this. That's what we're, that's what we're dealing with. And you know what? we have to have compassion, right? In the center of all of this, this is humanity. What Matias, I think, has gotten through to me, and I found it to be incredibly profound, is that in many ways, maybe we are a select few that are not vulnerable to these things, but I would imagine if it sort of fits in our wheelhouse with something we want to do. Like he said, we should be careful about creating our own mass formation around our singular event, which is, you know, stop. globalism or stopping Fauci, there's a way to do that naturally, which is from a critical thinking place and realizing that there's going to be some, you know, the word wasn't used,

but I kept thinking when Matthias was speaking of chaos, the world's chaotic. It's beautiful that way. You know, the term mother nature is a bitch because we can't control it. We can't control nature. Our desire to make everything rational, our desired to make everything fit into a box is why we are in this matter. It's these people that are attempting to control the world. They're literally trying to control nature. They truly believe that they have a future that they will create where they will release viruses and bacteria made by them that will protect us from viruses and bacteria. I mean, this is how crazy the whole thing's got.

And we're all, you know, the people around us are part of this ritualistic event. Putting on masks, taking on masks, putting on two masks, not walking through masks, not walking or standing fine, you know, standing mass, sitting fine, whatever it is, it doesn't have to make sense. It's a part of the ritual because in the end, we're all afraid. We're all desperately afraid of being alone again. So one of the things that we have to make sure we do not do is isolate people, make fun of people, make them feel like they're all alone. That is not going to get us out of this. I've said it to you so many times. You can't just go in bludgeon people with science, you're wrong, I'm right, here it is. Actually care about them. I've said this so many times.

Ask questions. Just ask them what they think, what they feel. Why do they like the vaccine so much? Why do they trust it so much? Do you always trust every pharmaceutical product that's ever been made? Do you believe that they are altruistic heroes, all of them? Stockholders have nothing to do with the decisions they make. They are doing everything they do for the betterment of society. I mean, mean, and don't be, you know, coy about it. I guess I kind of was there in snarky, but say it naturally. Be true. Actually care. And most of all, most of all, if you don't get anything other than this out of this show, what Matthias Desmond has said is everything that I have said, you must speak. You cannot hide. You're hiding. You're hiding from this.

topic with the people you love, from the people you hate, from the people you don't understand is why we are in this mess. That is what is creating the separation and is what is allowing them to be sucked in. Wake them up. Keep jolting them. Keep poking them in their hypnosis with your belief system. Keep telling them what you feel. Remind them of your humanity that they once appreciated. We've got to come back together, but it's not going to do it on its own. He's right. Just because now only 34% of Iowans, and I would guess that really represents the world, believe in a mandated vaccine program, meaning, you know, 66% of us don't. Doesn't mean we change it if we don't talk. If we don't talk, then we're just the 60% of those

that follow the panicked, you know, driving force of the mass. If we want to move, and by the way, If you want to know what group you're in, you know, that's part of it. Am I part of a mass psychosis or a mass formation? Or am I a part of the critical thinking resistance? Or am I just this mass in the middle that knows that feels like something's wrong, but I'm going along with it? You know by your voice, if you are not speaking, you're a part of the problem. If you are not speaking, you are controlled. You are enslaved and you are being restricted by the rationality in the cage and the prison that we have put ourselves in.

Let that light shine through. Pull the curtains apart. Let a little bit of chaos and nuance and mysticism return to your life. Look around at how beautiful this all is. I have to admit to you, I had to deal with this this week. I was just commenting to a friend of mine today that, you know, I'm very busy. I'm flying all over the place. I also have a family.

There's a lot that's going on, and it can be really seem insurmountable. And I started saying to my wife, Lee, you know, my life is insane right now. And she said to me, Del, Del, we've gone from you describe your life as being crazy to insane. We're moving in the wrong direction. And I'm glad she said that. And sometimes we need to hear that from our loved ones because this week, you know what? I didn't take it so seriously. The difference between an insane world and a crazy one is insanity means I am buying into it and it's affecting my mental space. I'm going crazy in my brain. I'm joining in. Whereas a crazy world can be crazy, I can have a life. And I have to tell you

this week, I really set out to do that. I meditated a little bit more. And I was able to be to see that around me, look at this beautiful planet. Seriously, when you walk out today, look at the trees, look at the flowers, look at your children, go down to the lake and look at that water, watch a sunset, and ask yourself, is there really a reason to be as upset as I am? Life is beautiful. No, we are not in control of it. We're doing the best we can. And sometimes the best we can and all we can do. And maybe all we need to do is to communicate, to speak, to share, to love, to believe. And remember, there is meaning in things beyond what CNN is dumping on us and Fox is dumping on us. Or some medical board. Believe in life. Believe in beauty.

Find the mystical. That is how we change this. I'll see you in that better world. It's getting better every single week. I'll see you next week on the high wire.