The Highwire with Del Bigtree - CDC WALKS BACK DECADES-OLD CLAIM “VACCINES DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM”

Episode Date: November 27, 2025

In a major shift, the CDC has quietly reversed its position on its previously unscientific claim that “Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism.” ICAN lead counsel Aaron Siri joins Del to break down the years of FOIA’s, outreach and education, and legal action that have culminated in this inevitable reversal of stance—and to explain why the CDC has never produced the scientific proof it insisted it had.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Last week, I told you I'm telling reporters, I'm giddy. I'm seeing in the car. I can't believe how many great things are happening. I just keep thinking, you know, we're at the end of the year. I'm ready to take a break. I've been traveling around the country, celebrating the fact that we just passed 50 million views with an inconvenient study and growing. And so get it out there with everybody that you know.

Everyone needs to see this film. I won't be happy until it's in the billions. But look, it's pretty awesome, given that this is something that our nonprofit is putting up, giving away for free across the world, creating the scientific conversation everywhere I go. People are curious. It's amazing what is happening. And as though that wasn't enough with all of the great things that have happened this year, last night we had a huge sea change in the conversation around vaccines. Now, of course, when I started this entire journey, was with a film called Vaxed that I made after I left my job at CBS working on the daytime talks to the doctors. I traveled the country with that. Ultimately, I wanted to get deeper into the conversation. So I started the informed consent action network with the team that is still with me today making all this happen. Right after that, we hired, you know, one of the greatest constitutional attorneys of all times in Aaron Siri to help us sue the government and anyone else

who was standing in the way of the truth. And we started winning law. against the government, ways that nobody had ever seen before. I mean, the list just goes on and on and on. We brought back the religious exemption in Mississippi, in West Virginia. We're there, too. I mean, just amazing things have been happening. But when you think about this conversation, when you think about the conversation of vaccines, there's really always one major serious side effect that everyone brings up.

What's the number one side effect? Let me hear it right now. Well, let's see if you're right, because this is what they talk about all the damn time. Vaccines don't cause autism. The science is clear. Vaccines don't cause autism. Vaccines do not cause autism. I do not deny in any way that we need to do more about autism, but it has nothing to do with vaccines.

We have thoroughly debunked any association between autism and these vaccines. Robert, it is nearly consensus in the scientific community that there's no link there. To deny a mountain of scientific evidence, which has already taught us that the combination measles, mumps, rebella, MMR vaccine doesn't cause autism. Vimeris saw an ethyl-mergrey-containing preservative that wasn't a number of vaccines doesn't cause autism, and that most recently that too many vaccines given too soon, if you will, doesn't also cause autism. So we know that the schedule is saved. Are there peer-reviewed scientific reports that indicate a link between vaccines and autism? No. And not only is there not a peer-reviewed work, this is probably the most studied public health issue involving children.

Vaccines are really the one thing we have looked at as causing autism. The Institutes of Medicine, the Centers for Disease Control, have repeatedly investigated this. Vaccines do not cause autism. We don't need more research. At some point, enough is enough. It's fine to continue to collect data, but at some point you have to take note for an answer. We're not sure of the scientific community what causes autism, but we know that vaccines do not. Mountains of evidence. No, you know, there's been looked at extensively. Nothing's been more studied in the world than this connection between vaccines and autism. We'd heard it. We've heard it for decades. You know, actually almost a century now if you want to get into it. This has been the battle cry of the pharmaceutical industry and every shill that works for them. whether you know it or not, all the way back in 2020, for those of you that were watching then, we actually disproved this myth right then. We debunked it with a lawsuit where we went at the CDC and said,

really, if the head of your page on the CDC website says vaccines, plural, meaning all vaccines do not cause autism, do we have that original website? This is what it said, vaccines do not cause autism. There it is. All vaccines. Doesn't say one of them or two of them. All vaccines by the plural S at the end of vaccines. vaccines do not cause autism, will you please provide us with all of the evidence and studies that show that the first vaccines in the first six months of life between six and seven depending on how you count them, that they do not cause autism? Send us that evidence. Well, they didn't, and we sued them and we went to court. This is me in 2020 talking about winning that case. Take a look at this. You go to the website and what do you see when you're on that

website. You see this page, it says, vaccines do not cause autism. There is no link between vaccines and autism. So here's what we said. We would like, we put forward a request, first of all, in a FOIA request. We would simply just like to see the studies that show that vaccines don't cause autism. The CDC relies upon to claim that the cumulative exposure of vaccines it recommends that babies be administered during the first six months of do not cause autism. Well, we took them to federal court. And on Friday, as I said, we won the case. Here's what it looks like in the document. They gave us the list. It's actually 20 studies. 20 total studies make up the entire list of what they look to when they say that

These childhood vaccines, the five and the accumulative effects of them given in the first six months of life, 20 studies, here's what we have in these 20 studies. The first one, that's an MMR study, okay? The second one, an MMR and a D-TAP study. The next ones, these four are MMR and thimerosol studies. And then the next all the way through to 20, so 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, from 7 to 20. are all just thimerosol studies. And lastly, we have one antigen study. Of the 20 studies, I believe it's the second, third, fourth, and sixth of these studies are reviews

of other studies. Reviews essentially of what? MMR and thimerosol studies. But how many of these would actually answer the question to DETAP, Hib, Hep B, Prevnar, Well, I'm going to be really honest with you here. Obviously, they've totally missed the boat. Because of our lawsuit now, I am telling you and telling you now, please volunteer to take this down.

Because if you do not, the informed consent action network, the high wire presentation, and all of those that support and follow us, will use every legal means necessary to make you accountable. Well, back in 2020, those 20 studies, not a single one of them. If you look at MMR, it's not in the first six months of life. If you look at thimerosol, none of the vaccines in the first six months of life had

thimerosol in them. And there was only one study there, which was the IOM Institute of Medicine Review of the D-TAP vaccine. And in that, they said there are no studies that prove or disprove the association with autism. therefore that was the only one that was relevant to the first six months of life and it proved that they had no answers. And so for everyone that's ever said mountain of evidence, that's been a lie. We won in court. It's a lie.

You can take that to the bank. And actually just months after winning that lawsuit, that was, I believe, was that in May, by August, they pulled down the statement, vaccines do not cause autism. We celebrated it, but five months later, it went back up. And we've been stuck there with this propaganda statement that, have no basis in science up until last night when this happened to the website. Let's see the new page. Here it is.

It now says autism and vaccines, and right under that, it has the key points. So we read those key points? The claim vaccines do not cause autism is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism, meaning those vaccines in the first six months of life, meaning the ICAN lawsuit that proved that. Studies supporting a link have been ignored by health authorities. HHS has launched a comprehensive assessment of the causes of autism, including investigations on plausible biological mechanisms and potential causal links.

It does have an explanatory statement I want to read right now. It says this about why you will still see it with an asterisk. The header, vaccines do not cause autism, has not been completely removed due to an agreement with the chair of the U.S. Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee that it would remain on the CDC website. Apparently, this was that backroom deal that was made with Senator Cassidy, of course, when Robert Kennedy Jr. was up there. But now you can see on the page, it is clear we are making the statement or it's being made by the CDC that this is not a scientific statement. And so ultimately, this is a massive change. I, you know, tweeted out about

it today and to every parent of an autistic child that's been out there. For every one of you, that did interviews, whether in the film vaxed or when we toured the nation. And for everyone that has ever been gas lit, the days of gaslighting are over. We are now moving into science-based, evidence-based statements on the CDC website. It's a beautiful day. But one of the people that I think has been a primary motivator for the CDC and all the work that's being done by our government to make this adjustment, The lawsuits that we pressured with, all of the work that I can is done, of course, is only possible with the help and guidance of Aaron Siri. He joins me right now.

Aaron, this is something that we have genuinely had as a major, you know, let's just say we had our crosshairs on this issues from the very beginning when you and I first started working together. But just take us through that lawsuit that really was that just put the, the crack in the dam that eventually we knew what was going to have to come crashing down those first six vaccines in the first six months of life. How long, how long did that case take us, by the way? It was the process? I'd say the case started really when it really is genesis at the very beginning when we started looking at the underlying data to support vaccine safety. We came across the Institute of Medicine report from 2012 that looked at whether detab vaccine causes autism and they say we can't find any studies they actually did find one study

right right if i won't study that did find an association but they threw it out because they said it was based on ver's data and then um we asked dr plokin about it during his deposition yeah he he didn't have any studies and i'd say well without studies do you tell a parent vaccines on cause autism and what do you say he said yeah i do i'll still do it yeah um and and so on the heels of that we figured, well, who do we turn to define the studies? It's got to be the CDC. So we submitted in 2019 Freedom Information Act requests to the CDC. We submitted a total of, I believe it was six of them. One was, provide all the studies that support that D-TAP vaccine does not cause autism. Provide all the studies that show that hid, go down the list, Hepbi, Prevnar, and IPV,

as well as not only individually they don't cause autism, but collectively. And, you know, on the, a few days, I would say, or days before we had to have the preliminary hearing in that case, as you just pointed out, the CDC finally provided a list of 20 studies. And I remember calling the Department of Justice Attorney, and, you know, maybe they thought we couldn't read. And I said what you just said, I said, hey, I got your list of 20 studies, okay, and I assume you want to settle on this basis. problem is, is that in this list of 20 studies, 19 of them have nothing to do zero with the vaccines given in the first six months of life. Really, it's the first year of life because nothing else is given until at least the first birthday. Except for one, which is the 2012 IOM review. So I said, meaning your whole list really only has one study related to any of the

vaccines in the first six months of life, not causing autism. And it said it couldn't find any to show it doesn't, found one to show it is associated, but it threw it out. I said, are you sure your client, the CDC, wants to put this in a stipulated order, you know, signed by a federal judge as the list, right? I mean, this was still early days, you know, thinking, come on, give us something. I mean, we weren't trying to prove it. We weren't even, I was, we were just trying to see where it all leads, and we wanted the definitive answer. So we gave them that opportunity. I remember the DOJ attorney came back and he's like, no, no, no, this is it. So, you know, we entered it as a stipulation.

I signed it on behalf of I can. The DOJ attorney, the Department of Justice Attorney, signed on behalf of the CDC. The federal judge signed it as an order of the court. And that's what you were just looking at earlier. That is, I mean, that is a federal court order. I mean, where else can you go to get the studies that other than the CDC and only took forcing their hand in a federal lawsuit to get them to basically give the list. And once you had it, the truth, they just couldn't hide from it anymore.

It's really amazing. It was a milestone moment for ICANN on the high wire at that moment. I remember the weekend that you won that case. We had just all moved out to Texas, and there was so much work that you wanted to do, and you said, Del, we just don't have the funding, you know, and I was saying, you know, you were saying, you know, in order to enter these cases, someone's going to take several years, we need to have the commitment up front. and that was the first time I went out to the public was on that video we just watched. They'll never forget it. We were in a barn in the middle of Texas.

We had no air conditioning. I was sweating like crazy. It was just there was like the beginning years, especially in the move in Texas. And I said, I'm going to use this case. And I'm going to go to the people and see if they won't, you know, if they could become recurring donors, then we could really expand the work that we're doing. And I think I asked for like $150,000. that day or something like that.

And over the weekend, I mean, by the time we finished the show, you know, all of this funding was coming in. And it really was a transformational moment for the high wire and I can because up until then we only had, you know, some larger sponsors. We'd never gone to the people. And suddenly the people stepped up, which is the program we now have. And, you know, that funding that came because that lawsuit has opened up the door to all of this incredible work that you have done over the years.

astounding what we've achieved and what we find here. But I'll never forget that moment. I'll never forget that lawsuit. It really was a giant seed change moment. And now we sit here with the result of that. Of course, it did result within a few months of them taking down that statement, vaccines don't cause autism. But then we were celebrating it so much, you know, that they, I think they realized this

is a problem. Who cares if we're lying? Put it back up. And then, like, five months later, they put it back up, which was crazy. Yeah, I mean, right after the lawsuit, actually, we didn't just let go. We actually filed more FOIA requests. So we, you know, we changed the way we asked for it. So in the lawsuit, the FOIA requests were provided us the studies that you relied upon to claim the vaccine.

That's awesome. So we said, you know what? Let's walk right back into it and give them another chance. So we filed another set of FOIA requests and said, give us any studies that in any way support the claim that these vaccines don't cause autism. So it's broader. Yeah. It wasn't just what you rely upon. Come on.

Go out there. Find something. Give it to us. Right. You have a mountain. Anywhere in the mountain, just bring some piece that mountain down to us. Please.

Yes, there's mountains of these studies. They're so high. They're so, but nobody can find them. It's incredible. In any event, the same thing happened. They eventually responded.

And you know what they sent us? The same exact list. Oh, really? 20 studies in response to that. And then we actually did another round. And then it was, you know, that went into March, April, May. Because March was, we have the stipulated order. Yeah.

We submitted more fire requests by the end of the month. We were torturing them April. And then I think by August, vaccines that do not cause all of them was off the website. Yeah. And it stayed off for five months until January of the next year. You went on the show and you celebrated it. And once they've gotten the news, they're like, uh-oh. And they put it back on.

Yeah. So it just goes to show you they don't like it when we gloat too much. It's still not going to stop me. I can't help myself like we are today. But it didn't even end there. Not only had we won against the CDC and we proved that, you had, I think, a landmark moment inside of a courtroom with probably the second highest, you know, regarded person in the vaccine space, Catherine Edwards. Let's watch this incredible deposition. It's happening via Zoom. We've played this before, but I think this is a perfect moment. just because as the CDC is watching it, they know that they don't have information, and now they're watching you in courtrooms destroying the leading scientists on this conversation for anyone that was still holding out any hope or thread on this mountain of evidence that everyone in our opening video there said is a mountain of evidence that shows that vaccines don't cause autism. You took the leading authority, one of the authors of Plotkin on vaccines.

You had her on the stand or in this deposition. Let's take a look at this. This is amazing. In the expert disclosures for this case, it asserts that, among other things, you will testify that, quote, the issue of whether vaccines cause autism has been thoroughly researched and rejected, end quote. It's your testimony that MMR vaccine cannot cause autism. That's correct. It's your testimony that Head B vaccine cannot cause autism? That's correct. It's your testimony that iPod cannot cause autism?

Yes. It's your testimony that hid vaccine cannot cause autism? Yes. Your testimony that Varicella vaccine cannot cause autism? Yes. It's your testimony that PrevNAR vaccine cannot cause autism? Yes. And it's your testimony that D-TAP vaccine cannot cause autism?

Yes. And do you have a study that supports a D-TAP doesn't cause autism? I have. I do not have a study that D-TAP caused autism. So I don't have either. Do you have any study one way or another of whether iPol causes autism? No, I do not, sir. Do you have any study one way or another of whether Endrix B causes autism?

I do not have any evidence that it causes autism, nor that it does not. And what about hid titers vaccine? Any evidence one way or another of whether it causes autism? And what about Prevnor vaccine? Any evidence one way or another? No, sir. And how about Varicella vaccine? Let me just finish.

Are there any studies one way or another that's report, whether it does or doesn't cause autism? Part of MMR, but not as baricella by itself. No, sir. No studies that say it does or no studies that say it doesn't. Right. There have been studies that have found an association between hepatitis B vaccine and autism, correct? not studies that I feel are credible okay which study which study you are you referring to when you say that well why don't you show me the study and then I'll see whether I agree with it

according to your profile you have done most of the predictable trials relied upon to license many of the vaccines correct on the market yes sir okay so you're highly experienced to conduct the clinical trials, correct? I'm highly experienced conducting clinical trials. And you're familiar with many of the clinical trials that relied upon to license, many of the vaccines currently on the market, correct? I am.

In your opinion, did the clinical trials relied upon to license the vaccines that Yates received, many of which are still on the market today? were they designed to rule out that the vaccine causes autism? No. You've badgered me into answering the question the way you want me to, but I think that that I've, that's probably the answer. Is it, is that your accurate and truthful testimony?

Yes. I mean, just incredible, and that shows you the state, right? You see all these statements, the mountains of evidence that's out there. She feels badgered when you actually ask for some science of any kind. You're badgering me, you're badgering me because she has no science. And really, for anyone out there that is ever, or if you're brand new to this show, that is a mic drop moment, folks. that is one of the leading authorities in the world showed up for one purpose and one purpose alone

to show up in a court case and provide all the evidence that these vaccines this child received do not cause autism, not one study. Can't list a single study. And yet we've been sitting here now for years going, how long is the CDC going to lie about this? How long is it going to make this statement, Aaron? I want to read some of the statements that are now on the website about, I think, our lawsuit, but certainly about what we've proven about the early vaccines. Let's take a look at this is now on the front page of this new CDC website. In 1986, the CDC's childhood immunization schedule for infants recommended five total doses of vaccines, two oral doses of oral polio, and three injected doses of diphtheria, tetanus, toxoids, and pertussis vaccine. In 2025,

the CDC's schedule will recommend three oral doses of rhodovirus and three injected doses of hepbe, D-TAP, Hib, PCV, and IPV by six months of age, two injected doses of influenza by seven months of AIDS and injected doses of Hibb, PCV, MMR, varicel, and hepatitis at 12 months of age. It goes on to say, in fact, there are still no studies that support the claim that any of the 20 doses of the seven infant vaccines recommended for American children before the first year of life do not cause autism. These vaccines include D-TAP, HB, Hibb, IPB, PCB, P-CV, Rodevirus, and Influenza. finally, the CDC's website is stating the truth.

Under Robert Kennedy Jr., now, Aaron, you know, every major media institution, I think the AAP is already screaming bloody murder, but is there anything about that that's not factual? They're trying to say it's not scientific. What other science is? Is there any science we don't know about, Aaron, because you have spent years now spielunking looking for some science? No, there's no science that credible, robust science that I've seen that support

that vaccines do not cause autism. And in fact, there's a plethora of science that they don't want to engage with, they don't want to address that they should really engage with regards to whether vaccines do cause autism, including the science around aluminum adjuvants and immune activation, and as well as a number of other studies that are out there,

like the Hep B study that's on that CDC website, on that new webpage, which points out that children that got Hep B had three, had three at birth, or in the first month of life, had three times a rate of autism for parents of children that did not get that vaccine. How was done out of the University of Stony Brook, out of a major institution here.

It's sitting in PubMed, it's peer reviewed, it's published. AHRQ, the Agency for Health Research and Quality actually said it was a reliable study when it did its review. But yet, they don't want to engage with that study. They don't want to engage with the various VACS-DUNVAC studies that show higher rates because they're inconvenient. And the reason that Dr. Edwards felt, as she called badgered, is because it wasn't a scientific exchange for her, in my mind.

She had a belief. It wasn't about, you know, an intellectual exchange, a logical exchange, a scientific exchange. She believes vaccines only cause autism. And when you challenge somebody's belief, they can't feel badgered. Because how do you defend a belief? How do you defend something when you don't have the data, you don't have the studies to support? it other than by reacting with indignation, emotion, and so forth. And that's exactly what she went. I'll also point out, by the way, she is, well, she was, I think until very recently, the head.

She's not only one of the editors on Plotkin's vaccines, the medical textbooks on vaccines, and one of the world's leading authorities on vaccines, the world's leading vaccinologists. But she also was the head of one of the four vaccine safety systems, the CDC, called SISA, the clinical immunization safety assessment network project. And so, I mean, she's right there in the heartland of all things, vaccine, did the clinical trial for most of them. So, you know, now you have the CDC, you know, they can't produce studies. You've got Dr. Edwards not being able to produce study.

You got Plotkin saying just basically lie to parents and tell them it doesn't go to autism, even if we don't have the studies. And I think that one favorite line from that web page, if I may read it, it says that, scientific studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines contribute to the development of autism. But then it says, however, this statement has historically been disseminated by the CDC and other federal health agencies within HSS to what? To prevent vaccine hesitancy. And that's exactly what Plotkin said.

We just got to make sure people just don't stop taking this. So anything that makes people doubt these products. we just have to not tell them the truth. They don't realize that by doing that, they create vaccine hesitancy. They were honest from the beginning. It wouldn't be in the place that they're at. Well, we wouldn't be at the place that we're at without you, Aaron.

This partnership with ICANN and the work that you've done with your law firm is bar none. I think it's going to go down in history. This is a historic moment that has just taken place, something that you have worked so hard with us to make happen. And of course, I want to recognize all the other groups that are out there that have been hitting on this even before we got here. All of the parents of autistic children that went out of their way, aside from living a very difficult life, to shout from the rooftops to everyone out there like me. And I don't vaccinate my kids. We were listening.

You saved our lives. You need to be recognized today for the work that you have done. This is a pivotal moment in this conversation. And it hopefully will now lead to more and more actual robust science. like that at the heart of an inconvenient study, studies of vaccinated compared to unvaccinated. Let's start drilling down on where this injury is happening, why it's happening, how often it's happening, what are the actual numbers? It is time for a reality check that I think begins today. It's a long slog now. Robert Kenny Jr. has a lot of work to do to now start chisling

into this mountain of baloney and figuring out where the truth actually lies. But we wouldn't be here without your work. I see your book in the background. I'm telling everybody read vaccines. Amen. lays out. If you want to understand everything that's happening here and the timeline by which we find ourselves in this position, make sure that you go and get yourself a copy of vaccines. Amen, immediately. This is from the mind of the man that has made so much of this happen for I can. Aaron, I can't thank you enough. And certainly, you have a lot to be thankful for this Thanksgiving. I hope you really enjoy it with your family. Thank you. And if I may just add, you know, It also could not have been done without all the support and supporters of ICANN, truly.

You know, we just talked about the lawsuits we did, but since 2022, when they put that claim back on the website, we have filed over 55 Freedom of Information Act requests, all supported by ICANN during that period. And we filed four federal lawsuits, beyond the lawsuit that we just described around vaccines and autism. All of that were all supported by ICANN. The supporters of ICANN are incredible. I've met some of them over the years. And, you know, they should be, you know, they should take a lot of pride and joy and because they were integral to making this possible.

Without them, it wouldn't be possible. I agree. Absolutely. Thank you, Aaron. I'll see you on the other side of the holiday. Take care. Thank you.